Ben Shapiro and Malcolm Nance on Critical Race Theory | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO) — Transcript

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1. 0:00let's get back into
2. 0:03hard news i hate it we're having such a
3. 0:05good time and now now we're gonna fight
4. 0:06and now i'm gonna
5. 0:07no i'm gonna make you fight again but
6. 0:09it's okay but i gotta talk about that
7. 0:11muzzle laws there's these laws that have
8. 0:13been introduced in a nur of states
9. 0:15to not talk about critical race theory
10. 0:18now critical race theory i must say to
11. 0:20begin with
12. 0:21i hadn't heard the term probably a year
13. 0:22ago now i hear it every day
14. 0:25i think americans are just starting to
15. 0:27hear it and i think no one knows exactly
16. 0:29what it is
17. 0:30they know it has something to do with
18. 0:31race and it's some kind of a theory
19. 0:35right how would you describe it
20. 0:38and then we'll ask how will you describe
21. 0:40what is critical i will admit that i
22. 0:42read a lot of critical race theory in
23. 0:43law school
24. 0:44so you know the work of derek bell or
25. 0:45john or jean stefan
26. 0:48no one knows but you and six other
27. 0:49people right so
28. 0:51what matters is what is it what is it
29. 0:53practically
30. 0:54it's being taught in schools or some
31. 0:56form of
32. 0:57yes there's there's a certain sort of
33. 0:59crystallized version of it that is
34. 1:01a lot less complex than what critical
35. 1:02race theory actually is but critical
36. 1:04race theory essentially argues
37. 1:06that racism is baked into all the
38. 1:07systems of american society
39. 1:09and that any sort of neutral system is
40. 1:12in fact a
41. 1:12guise for racial power and so the
42. 1:14argument is made by derek bell for
43. 1:16example
44. 1:16that brown versus board of education
45. 1:18this is an argument he made in 1991
46. 1:20that brown versus board of education was
47. 1:21actually a way for the white community
48. 1:23to leverage its own power it wasn't an
49. 1:25attempt to end segregation in public
50. 1:27schools
51. 1:28even things that are reportedly good in
52. 1:30terms of race so long as they uphold
53. 1:31these broader systems things like
54. 1:32capitalism or things like
55. 1:34the meritocracy these things are
56. 1:35actually just guises for power
57. 1:37and so what that boils down to in sort
58. 1:39of practical terms is all disparity
59. 1:41equals discrimination if you can see any
60. 1:42stat
61. 1:43where black people are underperforming
62. 1:44white people this means the system was
63. 1:46set up for the benefit
64. 1:47of white people and that white people
65. 1:49have a duty to tear down these systems
66. 1:51in order to alleviate the racism that's
67. 1:53implicit in those systems when it comes
68. 1:54to
69. 1:55schools what this tends to boil down to
70. 1:56is kids who are white
71. 1:58have experienced privilege because the
72. 2:00system was built for white people
73. 2:01and we have to change the standards
74. 2:03right okay well so malcolm you tell me
75. 2:05your definition
76. 2:06oh i agree with everything he just said
77. 2:07oh oh great
78. 2:11and i appreciate you being honest and
79. 2:15defining of what it's like to be black
80. 2:16american
81. 2:17right that is i mean we're talking about
82. 2:20a system fair
83. 2:21well no i'm just saying i agree with all
84. 2:24of those suppositions because
85. 2:26they are grounded in truth look
86. 2:29when i'm you know and the funny thing is
87. 2:33it's not just african americans right
88. 2:36it's also
89. 2:37the the the scalp act of 1749
90. 2:40where for a hunt 300 modern dollars you
91. 2:43had to cut off the head
92. 2:44or the hair of an indian to prove that
93. 2:46you've got them out of the way so they
94. 2:47could settle
95. 2:48that's a little bit of american history
96. 2:50that people should know about the
97. 2:51chinese exclusion acts of the 1840s
98. 2:54these are things we don't talk about
99. 2:56that's right i mean that's personal
100. 2:58that's not it's not true that people
101. 3:00don't talk about these things we all do
102. 3:01we don't
103. 3:02want them talked about no that's not
104. 3:04true either you wanted to
105. 3:05cancel no malcolm i'm sorry you're lying
106. 3:08that's fine
107. 3:09it is lying i not only have i've
108. 3:11personally talked about many of the
109. 3:12things that you just mentioned
110. 3:13i define critical critical race theory
111. 3:16by citing the actual authors of critical
112. 3:18race theory and you seem to be a pretty
113. 3:20good beneficiary of the meritocracy
114. 3:21because you have merit malcolm so if
115. 3:23you're going to criticize the
116. 3:23meritocracy
117. 3:24there's an outgrowth of white supremacy
118. 3:26then you're going to have to tear down
119. 3:27the system
120. 3:28that you've succeeded in because you
121. 3:30have merit or do you not have merits
122. 3:31you know when my great-great-grandfather
123. 3:34ran away from slavery to join the 111th
124. 3:36u.s colored troops and
125. 3:38fight against the south keeping human
126. 3:40beings
127. 3:41as slaves he didn't think you know what
128. 3:43in 150 years
129. 3:45my great-great-grandson's gonna have to
130. 3:46sit on stage and argue with a guy
131. 3:48who thinks all that's all right
132. 3:52[Applause]
133. 3:54i'm just saying there is no controversy
134. 3:58the controversy that's made up is people
135. 4:00saying that this is being discussed
136. 4:02this is being taught in schools and that
137. 4:04kids should be kept away
138. 4:05that's not true it's not even a real
139. 4:07controversy the fifth largest school
140. 4:08district in america clark county just
141. 4:10decided that they were going to lower
142. 4:12standards with regard to testing because
143. 4:14they wanted to alleviate disparities in
144. 4:16outcomes that is an outgrowth of
145. 4:17critical race theory
146. 4:18can you draw a straight line to it yes
147. 4:20100 because when you say
148. 4:22that the meritocracy is an outgrowth of
149. 4:24white supremacy and then you suggest
150. 4:26that i'm somehow denying that slavery
151. 4:28took place or that your great great
152. 4:29great grandfather was a hero because i'm
153. 4:31saying that i want people tested when
154. 4:33they are in school to see if they are
155. 4:34good at school
156. 4:35and then what you are according to that
157. 4:37was just nonsense
158. 4:40but i think it's also a leap to say that
159. 4:43he thought that was because
160. 4:46that's not what it is i mean we're
161. 4:47talking
162. 4:47are we talking about 2021 are we talking
163. 4:50about 1861
164. 4:52because the point is can we talk about
165. 4:531861 and 2021 yes we can
166. 4:56and i don't know i don't know who it is
167. 4:58i don't know who's against talking about
168. 4:59history
169. 5:00well i mean i understand that they want
170. 5:01to you know in texas they're talking
171. 5:03about remember having references to the
172. 5:04ku klux klan they're talking about we're
173. 5:06moving i mean come on that's texas
174. 5:08i mean how can you watch forrest gump
175. 5:09without even knowing who nathan bedford
176. 5:10forest is
177. 5:11right i mean these are people who are
178. 5:13historical figures who did bad things
179. 5:15no one is actually saying we want to go
180. 5:18back
181. 5:19and erase everything and restart and
182. 5:21talk to you about these things critical
183. 5:23race theory is a subject because the
184. 5:24republican right has made it a subject
185. 5:26no no no no no
186. 5:27real school organizations are mandating
187. 5:30this course
188. 5:31every democrat in america takes your
189. 5:33perspective and they will and
190. 5:34and they will be shellacked at the polls
191. 5:36roy teshera just wrote a piece the
192. 5:38emerging democrat majority roy share he
193. 5:40just heard a piece about what he called
194. 5:41the fox news fallacy a tendency of
195. 5:42people on the left
196. 5:43to believe that just because fox news
197. 5:44mentioned something it can't be real
198. 5:46the reality is a lot of this stuff is
199. 5:48taught in schools you mean like viruses
200. 5:51well okay well can i can i i'm
201. 5:54now now i'm just i don't know i don't
202. 5:56know i'm just
203. 5:57confused can i just what you're talking
204. 5:58about what people
205. 6:00are experiencing in their lives in their
206. 6:03schools
207. 6:03yeah okay you're right there are states
208. 6:05like from the old confederacy
209. 6:07i think who do want to airbrush history
210. 6:09that's not i think the majority in this
211. 6:11country
212. 6:12if you ask me in critical race theory if
213. 6:14you say does that mean
214. 6:15teach history on varnish i would say yes
215. 6:18then i'm totally for critical race
216. 6:19theory
217. 6:20if you say does it mean acknowledging
218. 6:22that racism persists today
219. 6:24i would say yes teach that
220. 6:28should we have remedial means that's
221. 6:30like affirmative action
222. 6:31there's lots of people who are against
223. 6:33that i'm still for that i still think
224. 6:35when you read the statistics
225. 6:36and i have some of them here blacks earn
226. 6:3940 percent
227. 6:40less 90 less family wealth
228. 6:44high poverty high schools 72 blacks to
229. 6:4731
230. 6:48white lives six years shorter half as
231. 6:51likely to go to college
232. 6:53eight times more incarcerated these are
233. 6:55real statistics
234. 6:58the question is what how do we what do
235. 7:01we do to address them
236. 7:03i th what these are real statistics
237. 7:06i you think we should address them you
238. 7:09think we should address them
239. 7:10right the question is what are we doing
240. 7:13about it
241. 7:13because if ra if critical race theory
242. 7:16means
243. 7:17making children in school fixate on race
244. 7:20i'm not for that
245. 7:22if it makes if it's about collective
246. 7:25guilt
247. 7:26i didn't do anything to your great great
248. 7:28great grandfather
249. 7:30i don't want to be responsible for that
250. 7:32if it's about
251. 7:33you know a toxicity of just from being
252. 7:36born white
253. 7:37uh if it's about dividing everybody into
254. 7:40oppressor and oppressive
255. 7:42oppressed and oppressor i'm not for that
256. 7:44so there are things that
257. 7:45are being taught and are going around
258. 7:46that i'm not for that
259. 7:48if that was critical race there i
260. 7:50wouldn't be for i agree with you and i
261. 7:51don't think that's critical race theory
262. 7:53but it's being okay i think what's
263. 7:55happened here
264. 7:58what's happened here as this this
265. 8:00terminology
266. 8:01sort of like defund the police has been
267. 8:03hijacked and been
268. 8:05framed around the left as that they want
269. 8:07to do all this they want to rip down the
270. 8:09entire social fabric of america and they
271. 8:11want us to be guilty about everything
272. 8:13i want you to teach history i had a lot
273. 8:15of people in the military
274. 8:17hold on i had a lot of people in the
275. 8:19military
276. 8:20senior officers who had to make
277. 8:22life-and-death decisions who were total
278. 8:24morons about the cultures and
279. 8:26institutions right so in
280. 8:27countries we were going into and people
281. 8:30died because of that
282. 8:31i don't need that here if we agree that
283. 8:33history should be taught
284. 8:34why are you defending critical race
285. 8:35theory which is not history did i not
286. 8:37just say a moment ago that i think that
287. 8:39term has been hijacked and that's not
288. 8:40okay so let's say critical race
289. 8:42i'm going to go back and repeat that i
290. 8:44didn't say that okay you
291. 8:46you are literally defending critical
292. 8:47race theory by redefining it as just
293. 8:49teaching history which is a cheap
294. 8:50semantic trick and you know it is this
295. 8:52what you do on your show cause it sucks
296. 8:55ice you know nathan
297. 8:57[Applause]
298. 8:59malcolm i appreciate that but i will i
299. 9:01will i will comfort myself
300. 9:02sleeping on my bed made of money i'm
301. 9:03sure we have an adult i'm sure
302. 9:05i'm sure we have that i'm sure we have
303. 9:07another adult subject to talk about
304. 9:09well how about that andrew cuomo
305. 9:30you