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Becky Hill Testifies in Alex Murdaugh's Motion for New Trial — Transcript

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0:00Do you swear or affirm that the
0:02testimony you're about to give in this
0:03case to be the truth, the whole truth,
0:04and nothing but the truth, so help you
0:05God? I do. Thank you.
0:18Good afternoon, Ms. Hill. How are you?
0:20I'm fine. Um, I want to get started if
0:23you would, if you could state your full
0:24name for the record and spell it for the
0:26court reporter, please. My name is Becky
0:28Hill. Last name Hill, H I L L.
0:33All right.
0:33Um, and if you would, just give us
0:36you're currently the clerk of court for
0:37Colleton County, is that correct? That's
0:39correct.
0:40Uh, and just very quickly, if you would,
0:41what year were you
0:43elected as clerk of court?
0:45At the end of 2020. At the end of 2020?
0:48Yes. And prior to that, did you have any
0:51involvement or experience with the state
0:53judicial system? I did. And could you
0:55tell the court what that was, please? I
0:57was a South Carolina official court
1:00reporter
1:01for about 14 years. All right. And were
1:03you
1:04in being an official court reporter, you
1:06would serve in the courtroom which is
1:07Ms. Harris is here today, is that
1:09correct? Or what would you do? All
1:10right.
1:11And was that primarily in the 14th
1:12Circuit?
1:14It was primarily in the 14th Circuit.
1:16However, I did travel throughout the
1:18state.
1:20Um, did you have any other experience in
1:23your in professional experience prior to
1:25becoming court reporter or clerk of
1:27court?
1:28I was a court reporter freelance for 2
1:30years before that. Okay. And then any
1:33other professional pursuits you've had
1:35over the course of your career?
1:36Uh, I was able to be a middle school
1:38teacher and I worked for the Board of
1:40Disabilities for a few years as well.
1:42All right.
1:44Um,
1:46let me go ahead and and just kind of get
1:47straight to it. Um,
1:50in your capacity as clerk of court and
1:54in your previous experience being a
1:55court reporter, Uh were you familiar
1:58with the the rules that apply to court
2:01staff as it as it comes to interactions
2:03with jurors during the course of a
2:05criminal trial or civil trial for that
2:06matter?
2:07Yes. All right. And uh could you tell
2:10the court uh generally what those rules
2:11are as far as as what contact is
2:14permissible and what contact is not
2:15permissible just very quickly?
2:19The judge gives the the law and gives
2:23the instructions for a jury.
2:25And uh the attorneys will state their
2:28opening argument their opening
2:29statements, their closing arguments. And
2:31basically
2:33uh the clerk of court and anyone else um
2:38court reporter we're there to
2:41my understanding would be to make sure
2:42that everyone's taken care of.
2:45Do you need some Kleenex? Do you need
2:46some water?
2:47Different things like that just to make
2:49sure that they're taken care of. Is it
2:51is it common for clerks of court uh to
2:54have interaction with jurors during the
2:55course of a trial to see to those
2:57various logistical needs that you that
2:59you just described? Yes. And did that
3:01happen in the Murdoch case? It did. Uh
3:03and can you give us example of some of
3:05the logistical things that you or other
3:07things that you would see to to uh to
3:09deal with any needs that the jurors may
3:12have?
3:13I mean did you provide them food,
3:14coffee, uh make sure they were
3:16comfortable, things like that? Yes, all
3:18of that. All right.
3:20Provide blankets for them if they were
3:21cold?
3:22Our courtroom was very cold in Colleton
3:25County. Yes.
3:26Um did you uh provide them with
3:29aspirin or Tylenol if they needed, make
3:31sure coffee and snacks were available?
3:33Yes. Uh did you take lunch orders for
3:35them so that they were fed each day?
3:37Yes.
3:39Um at any time
3:42did you
3:44interact with any juror in an attempt to
3:47influence their view of the facts in the
3:50state v. Murdoch case? No.
3:53All right. Now, I want to ask you some
3:54specifics about that um and some
3:57allegations that have been raised. Um at
4:00any time did you tell the jury
4:03not to be fooled by evidence presented
4:06by Mr. Murdaugh's attorneys? I did not.
4:09At any time did you instruct the jury to
4:12watch him closely and look at his
4:13actions? I did not. At any time did you
4:17instruct the jury or tell the jury to
4:19look at his movements? No. At any time
4:22as the jury moved to deliberate did you
4:25tell the jury this shouldn't take long?
4:28No.
4:31At any time did you tell the jury
4:34that the defense case, watch out for the
4:37defense case, they're going to try to
4:38throw you off or anything along those
4:40lines that was meant to influence the
4:42jurors against Mr. Murdaugh? No.
4:55Let me ask you if you ever made any
4:58comment to the jurors
5:00about the fact that the defendant was
5:02going to testify.
5:06Did you have a Did you have a
5:07conversation in the presence of the
5:09jurors prior to the defendant testifying
5:11about the fact that he was about to
5:12testify? It wasn't directly related to
5:15the jurors. I was talking to Mr. Bell,
5:18who was our bailiff foreman, our bailiff
5:21over the jury, and I was talking to him
5:24about that. All right. And what did you
5:26say?
5:27I told him what I had just come from
5:29downstairs telling my security
5:32and bailiff office that Judge Newman had
5:35allowed more testimony in regarding the
5:39financials and then also the defendant
5:43had decided that he may testify. All
5:45right. And where were the jurors at the
5:47point that that conversation occurred?
5:49There were a few jurors uh standing in
5:52line and there were some in the
5:53bathroom,
5:55I'm sure because they said they were
5:56waiting on jurors to get out of the
5:58bathroom. And there were some in the
6:00jury room just milling around from what
6:02I could see looking down the hallway.
6:06And uh
6:07and again, what were what were the what
6:09were the words that you said in during
6:10that conversation? What were the effect
6:12of them? To Mr. Bill. Yeah. And what did
6:14you say? I told him that
6:16the that Judge Newman had was allowing
6:19more of the financial
6:20evidence in,
6:22which would prolong the the testimony in
6:24the trial a little bit. And also that
6:27the defendant had decided that he was
6:28going to testify. All right. Did you say
6:30anything about this being an important
6:32day, pay attention, we'll get coffee for
6:34you, things like that during that
6:36I usually give a little pep talk to the
6:38jurors. Um
6:40it's it's sometimes hard sitting a long
6:43time, but my usual and I do remember
6:45saying, "Pay attention. It's a big day
6:47today. Whatever you need, let Mr. Bill
6:50know or one of the other bailiffs and
6:51they'll be glad to get it for you."
6:53Did your comments or were your comments
6:55in any way phrased in favor of one side
6:58or against another side or were they at
7:00more of a neutral comment about paying
7:01attention? No. It was not for one side
7:05or the other.
7:29Were you um present when the jury went
7:32to the Moselle property uh to conduct
7:35the jury view? I was. All right.
7:38And was Judge Newman there as well? He
7:40was.
7:41Um during uh the time that you
7:45were on the property traveling there,
7:47traveling back, did you have any
7:48conversation with the jurors where you
7:51made any comment about the substance of
7:52any testimony or any comment about the
7:55merits or the strength of the case?
7:56No. No.
7:58Uh did you have a
8:01uh
8:02quick comment uh to the four lady about
8:05the how the property was beautiful and
8:07and there were treat tea olive trees
8:09there that that bloom and smell good or
8:11words to that effect? I did. All right.
8:13And was there any other conversation uh
8:15related that you had that you where you
8:18made any comment about the the case or
8:20the merits or anything like that?
8:22No.
8:35During the course of this trial, uh did
8:37you have a bailiff employee whose
8:39primary job it was to see to the jury
8:42and and and their security and to keep
8:44them separate from uh from everyone else
8:47that was involved in this trial? I did.
8:49And who was that? Mr. Bill Pope. All
8:51right. And he was ultimately the jury
8:53coordinator in this particular case?
8:55That's correct.
8:57Um, during the course of the uh the the
9:01deliberations, once the jury went back
9:03there, uh did you have any contact with
9:05the juries or uh have any substantive
9:07discussion with them? Not at all.
9:10Did you uh have any discussion with them
9:12about logistics about staying in a hotel
9:14or anything like that? I did not.
9:17Um, did you have any interaction with
9:19the jurors or any anything to do with
9:21them having smoke breaks or anything
9:23like that? I did not.
9:45During the course of the trial, did you
9:48have any discussion or interaction with
9:50the jurors about them giving any
9:54interviews to the media or or making
9:56themselves available to the media? I'm
9:58asking during the course of the trial
9:59itself.
10:00No, not during the course of the trial.
10:02After the verdict had been reached and
10:04the case was in sentencing, did you have
10:06any conversation with any jurors at that
10:08time after they had already entered
10:09their verdict and been individually
10:11polled? Yes, after the sentencing. All
10:14right, and tell the court what that
10:16interaction was at that time.
10:18There were several outlets, news outlets
10:21that wanted to
10:23interview the jury as a whole and really
10:25wanted to get them up to north to New
10:28York.
10:29Um
10:29and so I was trying to get a hold of all
10:31the jurors to
10:33talk about that.
10:35That was something we had not prepared
10:36for. Did you at all pressure the jurors
10:38to speak or did you just tell them that
10:40it was their option to speak or not and
10:42here's the contact information?
10:43There was I did not pressure the jury
10:46to speak.
10:47No. Did you advise them that it was
10:48their
10:50decision and their decision alone
10:51whether or not they wish to speak to the
10:52media?
10:53It was totally their decision. And did
10:55you advise them of that?
10:56Yes, yes.
11:06I'm going to ask ask it again, but I
11:08just want to be sure. At any time
11:10did you make any comment to any juror or
11:14in the presence of any juror in which
11:16you
11:17at all tried to influence them in favor
11:21of one side or against another? I did
11:23not.
11:25Did you understand being a long-time
11:28court employee and clerk of court that
11:30that is outside the boundaries of what
11:32is appropriate interactions with the
11:33jurors during the course of the trial.
11:35Absolutely. And did at any time did you
11:38violate that rule that you understood? I
11:41did not. Court indulgence for a moment.
12:06Nothing further at this time, Your
12:07Honor.
12:13Please approach, Your Honor. Mr.
12:14Harpoothian, on cross-examination
12:29Miss Hill, we spent 6 weeks together,
12:31didn't we? We did.
12:33And during those 6 weeks uh you were
12:35helpful to me as you could be, correct?
12:38I was. Accommodated
12:40just about every request I made. Yes,
12:43sir.
12:49But wait a minute.
13:26Where were we?
13:28Oh, yeah. We're all friends.
13:30Our crew and I want to be sure you can
13:31be heard.
13:33That was the microphone that was
13:35supposed to
13:36You're fine where you are. Absolutely
13:38fine.
13:38Yes, ma'am. It was a stage microphone
13:40and it was obscuring my ability to
13:41question the witness. Yeah. Well, uh
13:44what I'm wondering is whether you can be
13:46heard without a microphone. Do we need
13:48to try to get a microphone up on this
13:50podium?
13:53Yeah. That would be good.
14:00All right. I don't know who's supposed
14:02to hear this other than you, but um
14:04I assume
14:06they can hear us.
14:08Court reporter, I'm sorry. She's more
14:09important as a lawyer than you are.
14:11Yes. I agree.
14:13Um
14:15Oh, yeah. We're all friends, right? We
14:18spent 6 weeks together in a very
14:21pressure-filled situation, correct?
14:23It was a long 6 weeks. It was a long 6
14:26weeks. And um during those 6 weeks
14:30you were helpful to me in a number of
14:31different ways. Um
14:34accommodating friends that I had that
14:35wanted to come watch the trial, for
14:37instance. Correct?
14:38That's correct. You even allowed me to
14:40use the private restroom down on the
14:42first floor so I didn't have to stand in
14:43line with the
14:46rest of the people um trying to at
14:48breaks, correct?
14:49Correct. So, we have no animosity
14:52towards each other. You didn't do
14:53something to me and I didn't do
14:54something to you during that trial,
14:56right? Absolutely. Okay.
14:59Now,
15:00given that, I'm going to ask you some
15:02questions today
15:03that may indicate to you that I have um
15:07some antagonism towards you. Let me
15:09disabuse you of that. I'm here doing a
15:10job representing my client and you've
15:13been around the court system for
15:14decades, correct? Yes, sir.
15:16So, you understand what we're doing here
15:17today. Yes. Now,
15:21let me understand a couple of things.
15:23think I I've read your book
15:25one
15:26some editions of your book. There are
15:28several.
15:29We got a bunch of um emails in which you
15:32have drafts that you forwarded to your
15:35co-author, correct? Correct.
15:37Objection. Believe uh I'll object to
15:39relevance. I believe uh any drafts you
15:41sent to her co-author with the book is
15:43beyond the scope of this inquiry here
15:44today. Overruled.
15:46You may proceed.
15:47Thank you, Honor.
15:49And in those drafts um
15:52you
15:54say certain things um about the trial,
15:58about um the process, which you later
16:02did not include in the
16:03the final version. It's called editing.
16:05Is that correct?
16:07I would agree with that. Okay. Now,
16:10let's talk about this book for just a
16:12second. It um
16:14When did you first decide you're going
16:15to write a book?
16:18I think a thought was there,
16:20a very fleeting thought, before the
16:22trial.
16:23Did you take any steps before the trial
16:27or at the initiation of the trial to
16:30begin writing this book or working with
16:31somebody on this book? Oh, no, sir. When
16:34did you and your co-author get together?
16:37It was several weeks after the trial.
16:40Okay. Did you talk to anybody about the
16:43fact you were going to write a book
16:44before the trial?
16:47There were several
16:50uh
16:51anchors and several journalists that I
16:53did speak with about the possibility of
16:56writing a book.
16:58Um
17:00Did
17:03I'm so disorganized. I apologize. Um
17:07Did Do you know Did you uh seek
17:10assistance in this trial from other
17:12clerks of court?
17:14Yes, sir, I did. And who were they?
17:17Rhonda McElveen, who is the Barnwell
17:19County Clerk of Court,
17:21and Renee Elvis from the Horry County
17:24Clerk of Court.
17:26And um did they were they there with you
17:28the entire 6 weeks? No.
17:33I mean how much how long were they
17:34there? How how often were they there?
17:40Rhonda McElveen was there
17:43as often as she could be, probably
17:45several times a week.
17:49Renee Elvis helped me during the jury
17:52selection.
18:10And um did she begin that is uh Miss
18:12McElveen did she begin working with you
18:15prior to jury selection?
18:19Can you repeat that question for me?
18:20We began jury selection I think on
18:22January 23rd, correct? Correct. Was she
18:25working with you or consulting with you
18:27prior to the 23rd?
18:29No, sir.
18:31Did you have any conversation with her
18:32about the trial?
18:34Not until she got
18:36to the trial on what I can't remember
18:38the exact day she came.
18:41Okay.
18:42Now, is she a friend of yours?
18:44Well, she was a friend, yes.
18:46Was? Well, she is a friend. Okay.
18:48Yes. Has she done nothing to make you
18:50any less a friend? No, sir. Now, um
18:55did you tell her
18:58about the time of the trial that you
18:59were going to write a book?
19:01That you had thought about and were
19:02going to write a book.
19:07I can't remember exactly.
19:13I
19:15I think we did have a conversation about
19:17a book possibly in the future.
19:20And did you tell her you're going to
19:22write a book because you thought it
19:23would make a lot of money? Oh, no, sir.
19:26You never said that. No, sir. And did
19:28you tell her that you were going to
19:29write a book to make a bunch of money so
19:31you could buy a lake lot and build a
19:33house on it?
19:34No, sir. Okay.
19:37Now, did you ever tell her that you had
19:40given a juror a ride home that you had
19:42accompanied Mr. Bill, what's his last
19:44name?
19:45Bill Polk. You're right. Did Did you and
19:47he took a juror home one night? Did you
19:49tell her that?
19:54Did you take a juror home one night? I
19:56didn't take a juror home one night. Did
19:58Mr. Polk Mr. Polk and you take a juror
20:00home one night? No, sir. We didn't.
20:02Okay. Never gave a juror a ride in a car
20:04with Mr. Polk or without. No, sir. Okay.
20:07Um
20:09Now, also during the trial, um your your
20:13daughter ended up on the venire. Is that
20:14right? She did. And um she was coming up
20:18and did you talk to me and and Mr.
20:20Waters about putting her on the jury if
20:22at all possible?
20:24I'm not sure that we wanted her to be on
20:26the jury if at all possible, but I think
20:29the question was um
20:31would she make a good juror? And I said
20:32she sure up she sure would. No, I don't
20:34think we asked you. I think you told us
20:36she would make a great juror. Did you
20:37not? I remember you asking.
20:40Okay. Okay. I
20:42was considering putting your daughter on
20:44the jury. Yes, sir. And who does she
20:46work for? She works for Compass South.
20:49Did she work for the sheriff's
20:49department at some point? No, sir.
20:53Okay.
20:55Does she work in law enforcement at all?
20:57No, sir. Okay.
20:59Um
21:01Now, let me ask you this. Um how many
21:05jury rooms were there?
21:08We have two jury rooms in Colleton. In
21:10this trial, how many juries rooms did
21:12you have? How many
21:13Two. Okay. So, the the entire jury
21:16wasn't together at any one time. They
21:18were separated into two rooms.
21:20Yes.
21:23Okay. And um
21:27did uh the when they're separated into
21:30uh two
21:32uh jury rooms like that, are they next
21:34door to each other? Are they down the
21:35hall from each other? They are next door
21:38to each other. Okay. So, but if you
21:39close the door to one
21:41can they hear what's going on in the
21:43other one?
21:45Some women probably have very good
21:46hearing and men, too, but I would say
21:49probably not.
21:51Okay. Are there restrooms in both of the
21:53juries rooms? There are. Okay. Where I
21:56mean, are there two restrooms or just
21:57one? There's one restroom in each jury
22:00room. Okay. Were either one of those uh
22:03restrooms designated men and women or
22:05did everybody use the same one? They
22:07were unisex.
22:08They were unisex.
22:09Okay. Now,
22:12um
22:13prior to your testimony here today, have
22:15you met with uh Attorney General's
22:17Office in Swat?
22:18I have.
22:19On how many occasions?
22:24I want to say twice. Okay. And remember
22:26when the first time was?
22:30I think the first time was in September.
22:32Okay. And the second time was last week?
22:34Yes, sir. And that was in Walterboro?
22:37Yes, right. And you all spent about four
22:39four and a half hours together?
22:43I want to say maybe two hours together.
22:46Okay. And in those two hours, you went
22:48over your testimony here today?
22:52They asked me questions.
22:55Did they ever correct your answers or
22:57suggest you answer differently? Oh, no.
22:59No, no. So, you just you just went
23:00through what you went through in 20
23:02minutes here, it took 2 hours to go
23:04through when you were with them.
23:08There were times when I would step out
23:10of the room and come back in.
23:12Um
23:13but I would say we were there for about
23:152 hours.
23:17Now, um
23:21you have described in your book your
23:23role as Switzerland, is that correct?
23:25Correct. Okay. And that is that you
23:28should not be in any way
23:31um opinionated about what's going on in
23:33the trial, is that correct?
23:35That's true. Okay. Um yet in your book
23:39you indicated a number of different
23:41points during the trial you had
23:43concluded he was guilty, is that
23:44correct?
23:49I think Your honor, I object at this
23:51point. I don't know if her conclusions
23:52in the book are in any way relevant to
23:54what occurred during the trial and
23:56whether or not there was any
23:57communications with the jurors, which is
23:59the sole issue that we're here for today
24:01is whether or not Miss Hill had any
24:03extraneous influence on the jurors. Um
24:05and so I think this is uh going a little
24:07far here. We object to the relevance
24:08here.
24:09Overruled. You may continue.
24:12Let me give you an example. You indicate
24:14riding back from Moselle
24:17that you and three other people were in
24:18a car and you all decided adamantly, I
24:22think was the word you used, um that he
24:25was guilty, that he had killed his wife
24:26and son. Is that what you put in the
24:28book?
24:30I can't remember if I put that in the
24:31book, but if you say I did, then I will
24:33agree with you.
24:34We did have a conversation about what
24:37each of us thought.
24:38And you all four agreed that he was
24:40guilty, correct?
24:41And none of us were jurors. No, no.
24:44Trust me, I know that. Um but you had an
24:48abiding conviction
24:50um at least by the time of the Moselle
24:53visit that he was guilty. And the other
24:56people in the car with you were
24:57bailiffs, were they not?
24:59No. Um Who were they? Some were were not
25:01bailiffs. One was a court reporter, one
25:03was our um
25:05security officer, head security, and
25:09another was a deputy sheriff. Okay. But
25:12the four of y'all rode out there, and
25:15based on what And I I mean, I can Let me
25:17You want me to review how chilled you
25:19were and how you felt this that poor
25:21Paul and and and Maggie been executed by
25:24him on that scene that visiting the
25:26scene convinced you that he was a
25:28horrible horrible murder. You want me to
25:31read that to you? Or you will concede
25:32that's what you wrote. I will concede
25:34that's what I wrote. But if I may, I
25:36will I would say that that a lot of that
25:38is poetic license um in writing a book
25:41and in making it sound like that. Okay,
25:44so some of it's poetic license, and some
25:47of it you just stole. You you you uh
25:49purloined it from that BBC writer,
25:51right? Your Honor, I object to uh not
25:53only the relevance, but the uh scope of
25:56cross. I would object also under uh rule
25:59um 608.
26:01I don't believe that's appropriate
26:02cross-examination.
26:04Overruled. You may continue, Mr.
26:06Harpootlian. Did you steal part of the
26:07book?
26:09I did plagiarize, Okay. That's stealing,
26:11isn't it? It is, and for that I'm very
26:13sorry, and I have apologized. Okay.
26:16And that makes it okay?
26:19What I did, I did, and I apologized for
26:22that. And part of the book is you say
26:25literary license, exaggeration?
26:29I wouldn't call it exaggeration. Okay.
26:32Now, let me ask you this. As switch one
26:35And this is the you saying this is
26:36happening while you're supposed to be
26:37switch one, you decided the defendant's
26:39guilty.
26:41And um if Miss Macelmain says that it's
26:44going to make you more money
26:46um if you if he's found guilty,
26:50don't you think it's reasonable to
26:51assume that you may crossed the line
26:53from time to time? Your Honor, I object
26:55to the form of the question. It assumes
26:56facts not in evidence.
26:58Overruled.
27:01Can you repeat that question one more
27:02time, Mr. Harmon?
27:03going to repeat it. Let me just move on
27:04to something else.
27:06Um let let me ask you um
27:09you had interactions with some jurors,
27:11and I believe um in a
27:14conference in the judge's chambers
27:16um you indicated that you had seen a
27:20post on Was it Walterboro Word of Mouth?
27:25Your Honor, again, I object. I think
27:27he's delving now into the Facebook
27:28inquiry. We believe again that that's
27:30irrelevant to the inquiry before Your
27:31Honor.
27:33I will allow limited He's All right. All
27:36right.
27:37As I understand it, trying to impeach
27:39her testimony and
27:41uh
27:44explore her credibility. And
27:47I think I've already told Mr. Harpoole
27:49and that I don't want to hold trial
27:50about the business of Facebook and the
27:53ex-juror, but I will allow limited
27:56examination on this point. You may
27:57proceed, Mr. Harpoole.
28:00Am I over oversimplifying that? You I
28:03mean, it's in your book. Um
28:05you saw something on Walterboro Word of
28:08Mouth, which appeared to you to be from
28:10the ex-husband of one of your jurors. Is
28:12that correct? Am I oversimplifying that?
28:15I remember reading one night something
28:17on Walterboro Word of Mouth, and when I
28:20was in the courtroom on a Monday morning
28:22listening to the judge and the attorneys
28:25talking about a matter, it sounded like
28:27it was relevant to each other.
28:29Okay. And um you became aware somehow
28:33that this
28:34juror had a restraining order out for
28:36her ex-husband. She told me that
28:38herself.
28:39Okay. And um
28:42uh tell me how it came for her to tell
28:45you about that. Where did she tell you?
28:47She uh was very talkative and when I was
28:51instructed by Judge Newman to go and get
28:52her from out of the jury room with a
28:55deputy following me,
28:57she was talking to me all the way back
28:59to the judge's chambers and she
29:00mentioned that there were restraining
29:03orders out when they had divorced. So,
29:05how did the judge
29:07Who brought it to the judge's attention
29:09about this Walterboro Word of Mouth
29:11thing?
29:14I let the judge know thinking that it
29:16could be related. Okay, and you let the
29:18judge know what?
29:21That I had read something on Walterboro
29:23Word of Mouth.
29:24Okay, and that you
29:27knew it was tied to that juror? I didn't
29:30know that it was.
29:32I wasn't sure at all.
29:33Who did you think it was tied to?
29:35From what y'all were talking about at
29:36the bench, um, I felt like I needed to
29:39let him know just in case it was
29:42related. There was something about an
29:44ex-husband and an ex-wife and somebody
29:46being on the jury.
29:48You didn't tell the judge that you had
29:50found what's called we call the apology
29:52post. You didn't tell the judge that? I
29:55didn't call it that, no.
29:57You don't remember
29:59producing it saying that that that
30:01producing it to the judge saying this is
30:03a post in which the guy that posted it
30:06on Friday night says the devil got in
30:08him and he's drinking and he apologized
30:10for what he posted. You didn't produce
30:12that? My staff did, one of my staff.
30:14But you gave that to the judge and gave
30:16it to us, didn't you not?
30:17Yes, we did.
30:18As if it were from
30:20that juror's ex-husband, correct?
30:24Correct.
30:25And you know it wasn't.
30:26I don't know that, Mr. Hart Bull Lian,
30:28no.
30:30So,
30:31and this you did not take that juror out
30:34and talk to her before you took her to
30:36the judge.
30:37Is that correct?
30:37I I never talked to that juror about
30:39stuff like that.
30:41Okay.
30:43Um did you ever talk to the forelady of
30:46the jury separate from the jury?
30:49I did. Okay. And tell us uh where did
30:52that occur?
31:00When I would go into the jury room
31:02and I would speak with the forelady,
31:05we would be in like the hallway in the
31:10the the two jury rooms were side by side
31:12and the opening to the jury room
31:15went out into the hallway. And we would
31:17be surrounded by the jurors at all
31:18times. Uh Mr. Bill would be very, very
31:22nearby or another bailiff as well when
31:24we would speak.
31:26And what did you speak to her about?
31:29There were several instances. One was um
31:34there was a juror who needed some
31:35feminine products.
31:37There was another time when Band-Aids
31:39were needed. There were times when uh
31:42Tylenol would be needed.
31:43Other than items that were needed by the
31:45jury's health object, did you ever
31:47discuss did she ever discuss with you if
31:50some issues jurors had emotionally or
31:53some issues with dissension in the jury
31:56room?
31:58She only told me that there were some
32:00loud jurors and
32:03it made some of the other jurors a
32:04little upset, but other than that What
32:07did What did you tell her to do?
32:09I told her if it got out of hand to
32:10write a note to the judge and that she
32:13could sign the note and get Mr. Bill to
32:15give it to the judge and the judge would
32:17handle that for her.
32:19Okay. Now
32:21um
32:23you did publish a book after
32:26after this trial, is that correct? We
32:28did.
32:29And you went to New York and took some
32:32of the jurors to the Today show.
32:34The The Today show did didn't us, yes.
32:36Now one of those jurors um that went up
32:38there with you the day of the verdict
32:41um wore for the first time I can
32:43remember wore a suit
32:45to to court. Do you remember that?
32:48Your Honor, again, I would object to
32:49discussion of the jurors wearing a suit
32:51or a post-trial trip to uh to the Today
32:54show. And I don't believe there's any
32:55connection to the inquiry that's that's
32:57focused for your Honor, and that is
32:59whether or not there was any extraneous
33:00influence during the course of the
33:01trial.
33:02I'm going to connect it, Your Honor. I
33:03believe All right. Overruled. May I
33:05continue, Mr. Abernathy?
33:07Did you text, email, or communicate
33:11on the morning before final arguments
33:14were completed
33:15that to people that they This was on a
33:17Thursday that they probably, if they're
33:19going to see the trial, should come on
33:21that Thursday because it'd be over by
33:23the the next day. It would be The jury
33:24would not be out very long. Did you ever
33:27communicate that email, text, or
33:30verbally?
33:31I do remember saying that, yes. And why
33:35did you think the jury would not be out
33:38very long? Had you communicated with
33:40jurors? I had not communicated with
33:43jurors about anything related to this
33:44trial at all.
33:48I've been a court reporter for at least
33:5014 years. I was clerk of court for
33:52three.
33:53And
33:55you just get to where you kind of um
33:58see things happen as they progress, and
34:00it's a guess. It's a gut feeling, and
34:02that's that's all that I meant by that.
34:05Well, why are you telling this young man
34:06who wanted passes for the next day in an
34:08email
34:10um
34:10you know, it won't be happening
34:11tomorrow. That was your Or did you say
34:13You didn't say I don't think. You just
34:15said You better come today if you're
34:17coming. Remember doing that?
34:19I don't remember that.
34:20Um
34:23But, you know, if
34:25if he wanted to come, I knew that the
34:27trial would be ending shortly as far as
34:29testimony. So, if he wanted to come, he
34:32needed to come. Why wouldn't the jury be
34:34out a week on a 6-week trial? They could
34:36have. But but you you apparently were
34:38telling the press and others that it'd
34:41be a quick verdict.
34:44Were you not? That was a just a gut
34:46feeling that I had. Okay. And that was
34:49my opinion.
34:51Your opinion you were right. Jury was
34:53out 3 hours on a 6-week trial. Correct?
34:56That's true. How much money did you make
34:58off that book?
35:06There was not a whole lot of money made
35:08off of the book after paying different
35:10things and
35:12um paying for some expenses that went
35:15along with that, but I want to say
35:17roughly around 100,000.
35:19Okay.
35:20That's not a lot of money.
35:23No, especially when you publish your own
35:24book.
35:25But that was the 100,000 you made.
35:28Uh with my co-author. Okay.
35:32And in what period of time? 6 months?
35:38I would say 6 months, yes.
35:39When was the book published?
35:41August 1st. Okay. The um trial was over
35:47That's uh 6 months after the trial was
35:49over you published a book.
35:51Correct? Correct.
35:54And then uh I believe you've recently
35:56stopped selling the book because of the
35:57plagiarism you've admitted to, correct?
36:00Correct. And so there's no more money.
36:02Correct.
36:03Now, um
36:06you also indicate in the book that the
36:08Murdaughs had a reputation
36:11of um criminality, I think, is kind of
36:15what you put.
36:17Did you not? Well, Mr. Harpooly and my
36:20grandfather and old man Buster were very
36:22close.
36:24Well, were they criminals?
36:26How would know? You wouldn't know, but
36:28you believed and you published that the
36:30the Murdaugh family had run that part of
36:32the state and they'd been participated
36:34in criminal conduct, correct?
36:36Your honor, again, I would object to
36:37general
36:39testimony about the alleged criminality
36:42of this family. I I'm not sure how that
36:43has any bearing on the focused inquiry
36:45before the court.
36:47He's asking by about what she said in
36:50the book. I'm going to allow it. Yes,
36:52sir. Did you say that in the book? That
36:54they
36:55they were criminals.
36:57In the book, that was more of the the
36:59literary
37:01ease that we that we take, I think, to
37:03make a story
37:05a little more interesting for the
37:06reader. By calling people criminals?
37:12I I I guess what I'm saying is this,
37:14were they criminals?
37:17Your honor, again, I would object to
37:18that particular question.
37:20Overruled. Were they criminals? I
37:22wouldn't know that. Okay, so you either
37:24made it up or you're lying about it?
37:27A- about the reputation of people that
37:31can't defend themselves? They're dead?
37:33You're going to call them criminals? You
37:35did that in the book so you could sell a
37:36book? No, I didn't do that to sell a
37:38book. What did you do it for? Made it
37:41more readable, you said? It the literary
37:43ease. What? Literary. Literary what?
37:48Uh the literary ease that that you can
37:50take with when writing a book.
37:52Literary ease you can take with writing
37:54a book, you can make stuff up? You can
37:55lie?
37:56You can lie about people?
37:58Not with that. I I You know, it's
38:00I think the public perception was one
38:03that it was very interesting during this
38:06time. So, you're feeding you're feeding
38:09the monster out there that wants to
38:10believe bad things about the Murdaughs
38:12and you'll make stuff up to do it. Let
38:14me give you another example. During I
38:16read your book and I found this somewhat
38:17humorous, but co-counsel did not. Uh in
38:20describing Mr. myself and Mr. Griffin,
38:22in the book you say that, um,
38:25I neutered him. Um, we've both been very
38:28interested in what you meant by that.
38:31What do you mean by me neutering Jim
38:32Griffin?
38:34Mr. Harpolean,
38:35it it was a book. Did you make it up?
38:40I know it was a book. The Bible's a
38:42book. I mean, just because it's a book
38:44doesn't mean you can lie in it.
38:45It's It's just a word that was used.
38:48Strange.
38:49All right. Don't argue with the witness,
38:51but the witness,
38:52um, Ms. Hill,
38:54you're instructed to answer his
38:55questions.
38:57You may proceed, Mr. Harpolean. So, let
38:59me get this straight. The book, and I'll
39:01see if I can cut to the chase on this. I
39:02could read you chapter after chapter,
39:04verse after verse, which
39:06is not true.
39:10Okay? Not true based on my experience of
39:12being in a courtroom, and not true based
39:14on knowing some of the people you
39:15described. You say You say that is
39:19Mr. Harpolean. I object. The counsel is
39:21just testifying right now as to his
39:23observations about the book.
39:24Mr. Harpolean, you may proceed, please.
39:26You conceded there things in the book
39:28that you don't know to be true. Correct?
39:31Correct. Okay.
39:32You would concede then that you have
39:34lied in the book.
39:37It's only because I wasn't there at the
39:38time. I can't I can't, um, interview my
39:42dead grandfather. I can't interview Mr.
39:43Buster.
39:44There's just things that we can't, um,
39:47interview them on. We can go by what was
39:49written in a newspaper and get facts
39:51from that.
39:53And And take the inference that, uh,
39:56one of the Murdaughs is a pedophile. You
39:58could have printed that, and they're not
39:59here to contradict it. You could have
40:01printed anything you wanted and made it
40:03up to sell books. That's what this This
40:05whole scheme was about, selling books.
40:08As you told Ronda McAveeny, if he if if
40:11him being found guilty would sell more
40:14books. You're right. that true? I would
40:16to the argument and the nature of the
40:17question, the compound question, and
40:19assuming facts not in evidence. It's a
40:20compound question. If what you're asking
40:23is what she told
40:25Miss Meckleberry, go on and ask that,
40:27but don't precede it with a Yes, your
40:29honor. testimony. Beg the court's
40:31indulgence for just a moment.
41:09write your book about that juror that
41:11who that's husband
41:14Um
41:16had posted something we now know
41:17probably wasn't her ex-husband.
41:20Um did she have any other ex-husbands
41:22that you found out about?
41:25I have no idea. Well, you wrote, "We
41:27learned later the ex-spouses hadn't seen
41:29each other in 14 years and she had three
41:31restraining orders against him." Did Did
41:33she have three restraining orders
41:35against him?
41:36I don't know. That's what she said.
41:38Okay. Um
41:54Let me go over a couple things.
42:01Did you tell jurors
42:04at the end of the trial after
42:05Presidents' Day break? Presidents' Day
42:06break would have been a Monday, correct?
42:10Correct.
42:12But before Mr. Murdaugh testified, did
42:14you tell the jury not to be fooled by
42:16the evidence presented by Mr. Murdaugh's
42:18lawyers?
42:19Mr. Harpootlian I never talked to the
42:21jurors about any of the evidence in this
42:23would be yes or no, then you can
42:24explain. Did you say that? No. Okay.
42:28Um
42:30Did you all Did you ever instruct the
42:32jury to watch him closely immediately
42:34before he testified? Looking at his
42:35actions, looking at his movements.
42:38Did you ever I tell the jury to do that?
42:40No.
42:41Did you ever tell the jury to pay
42:43attention to Mr. Murdaugh's testimony?
42:48To pay attention, not specifically to
42:50his testimony. I did tell the jury to
42:53pay attention
42:55um To what?
42:56Just generally in the hallway when I was
42:58speaking. Not to him.
43:00No. Just any witness. Right.
43:04Okay. Um
43:10Did you
43:20Did you ever warn the jurors the defense
43:22is about to do their side? This is right
43:25before Mr. Right at the the beginning of
43:27the defense case.
43:28They are going to say things that will
43:30try to confuse you. Don't let them
43:31confuse you or convince you or throw you
43:34off. Did you ever tell the jury that?
43:37No, sir. Okay.
43:38Um
43:40Did you ever tell the jury if you get
43:42emotional, we want to see your face cuz
43:43that is what they want to see.
43:46Did you ever tell them that? No, sir.
43:48Um
43:50Did you ever tell the jury that Mr. uh
43:53Murdaugh was about to testify?
43:56I didn't tell the jurors that.
44:07Now,
44:08did you tell the jury that if they
44:09didn't reach a verdict by 10:00 they
44:11were going to have to spend the night?
44:12No, sir, I did not.
44:14Did you ever tell them they were going
44:15to have to spend the night at some
44:17point?
44:18Did you ever tell them that they
44:19couldn't smoke? No, sir.
44:22Okay.
44:28You got any other books in the works?
44:30No, sir. I mean, doesn't this make a
44:32good book?
44:38Thank you.
44:54Yes, sir.
45:18All right, Your Honor, there were a few
45:20um matters came up on cross, obviously,
45:22that I'd objected to. Um I
45:24You won't waive your point. You You may
45:26reserve your rights to object to the
45:28entire line of testimony, but you may
45:30offer cross-examination subject to the
45:33assertion of your objection about the
45:35testimony. Thank you, Your Honor.
45:39Um
45:39one of the things you were asked about
45:41is uh finding
45:44this Facebook post, and you brought that
45:46to the court's attention after a
45:48different issue had already arisen
45:50related to a juror. Is that correct?
45:53Correct. All right. And are you
45:55technically capable of manufacturing a
45:57Facebook post? Is that anything that you
45:59have any capability to do? I'm not. All
46:02right. And did you uh ask your staff
46:04member to go see if she could find this
46:07post? I did. Did you tell her just
46:09generally what you were called
46:10reviewing? Yes. And did she Did you give
46:13her any further instruction other than
46:15that? No. Were you sitting behind her as
46:17she was doing this particular search or
46:19anything like that or did she eventually
46:21report back to you?
46:23She is very very techy and then she
46:26reported back to me. All right. So you
46:28weren't there when she was searching
46:29anything like that?
46:30No. She was like, "I couldn't find that
46:32post but I did find this" and handed you
46:34the Facebook post. Is that correct?
46:36Correct. And then you provided that to
46:37Judge Newman and ultimately to the It
46:39was provided to the parties. Is that
46:40correct?
46:40Right. Correct. All right.
46:46You were asked about conversations that
46:48you had with the forelady. Did those
46:50involve logistical issues and things
46:53like that?
46:55The
46:56The conversations with the forelady was
46:59everything
47:00There was nothing in regarding the
47:02defendant and this trial. All right. So
47:05they were logistical issues, not
47:06anything to do with the substance of the
47:07trial. Is that correct?
47:08Absolutely. Yes.
47:17You were asked about whether or not you
47:18had texted some people, "This won't be
47:20long." Was that at all in in any way
47:23based on any conversation you had with
47:25the juror as to their internal thinking
47:27or anything like that or was that just
47:29your your your assessment being an
47:31experienced person in the court?
47:33Absolutely not. It was based on just
47:36your assessments? Just my assessments.
47:38Yes.
47:40Did you ever communicate with the jurors
47:42on how long they would be or did any
47:43juror ever tell you how long they
47:45thought they would be? I never talked to
47:46any jurors about anything like that.
47:51You were asked about your book and and I
47:53don't want to get into too much detail
47:55about that but you were asked about some
47:57of the assertions that you made in the
47:58book. And you were asked if these were
48:01lies. Were they lies or were they
48:03ultimately things that were based on
48:05inferences from newspapers and community
48:08stories?
48:10All right, you are leading, fine. This
48:12is your witness, Mr.
48:14Waters, so please ask a direct question.
48:17Thank you. Was your
48:20some of the statements that you were
48:21asked about in your book, were they lies
48:23or were they based on your inferences
48:25from just general community knowledge
48:27and things that you had researched and
48:29knew? Still leading, but I'm not going
48:30to object.
48:33Thank you.
48:33He's right about that, Mr. Waters. Just
48:35ask a direct question.
48:37Did you lie in your book?
48:40No, I did not. Thank you.
48:43You were asked about um
48:47when you told the jury to pay attention.
48:49When you asked that question, did you
48:51also mention anything about we got
48:53coffee for you or things like that?
48:55I knew that Mr. Bill would take care of
48:57that.
48:58And that the jurors knew too. Um coffee,
49:01we had done some Dunkin' Donut runs, we
49:03had provided coffee, different other
49:05things to
49:06help stay awake in the cold courtroom
49:09that we were found ourselves in.
49:12And so, I knew anything that they
49:14needed, Mr. Bill would see that they got
49:16because that's what he did.
49:18At any time, did you have any
49:20conversation with any juror in which you
49:22tried to influence their decision? I did
49:24not have a conversation with any juror
49:27about anything related to this case.
49:35Nothing further on that.
49:36All right.
49:40All right, Ms. Hill.
49:46I want you to turn your attention to a
49:47hearing
49:49that Judge Newman had
49:51uh
49:52about
49:54the alternate who was uh dismissed.
49:58Uh
50:01sometimes called the egg juror.
50:04Do you recall that hearing? Yes, ma'am.
50:28In the hearing, Judge Newman expressed
50:31his
50:32uh
50:33unhappiness with you for questioning
50:35that juror before he questioned her. Do
50:38you recall that? I do remember seeing
50:40that.
50:41Well, then let's go back and talk about
50:43that juror. Uh you you on
50:47examination in this courtroom, you said
50:49said
50:50she talked about a lot of things to you,
50:52but you didn't uh ask her any questions,
50:54but that's not completely accurate, is
50:56it?
50:57Yes, ma'am, that is true. Well, you
50:59asked
51:01You asked her direct questions uh
51:04uh
51:04and that came out in the uh hearing that
51:08Judge Newman had. You asked her
51:10questions before she was even examined
51:13by the judge. Did you not? Your Honor, I
51:16I did not ask her any questions.
51:58The juror was examined by the judge uh
52:01in a hearing. Do you recall that
52:02hearing? This is the second hearing on
52:04this matter.
52:06I do recall that hearing, yes.
52:08And
52:19the court
52:35asked you about the the court asked this
52:38juror about postings on Facebook, did he
52:40not?
52:42Correct.
52:46And
52:51the juror said she gave Miss Bec- Becky
52:53my full access to my
52:56Facebook.
52:57Uh
52:58I put positive post on it. I've done
53:01that for the past 3 years. Do you recall
53:03her testifying in that regard? I do
53:05remember reading that.
53:06And the judge said, "Has anyone posted
53:08anything on Facebook about you?"
53:11And the juror answered, "I was not aware
53:13of it until Miss Becky told me today."
53:16Do you recall that? I do remember her
53:18saying that.
53:20And do you recall the judge saying,
53:22"What did she tell me?"
53:25And the juror said, "She asked me if I
53:27had an ex-husband and I said, 'Yeah.'"
53:30Did you ask her that?
53:32I remember her saying this, your honor,
53:35but I did not ask her any of these
53:37questions. And she's further says, "She
53:40asked me if I had talked to him about
53:42the case or being on jury duty and I
53:44said no.
53:46I had questioned her about why she was
53:48asking me that. I haven't seen my
53:50husband since 2014. Do you recall her
53:53testifying to that? I do remember that,
53:55yes. And with that
53:57having jogged your memory, do you recall
54:00asking her about her husband and his
54:02post?
54:04Your Honor, I don't remember saying
54:06anything about that. Well, what was the
54:08post that you read in the Walter
54:11um
54:15Word of mouth. Word of mouth. What What
54:18was the nature You read that. Uh
54:21did you not? I did.
54:22What did it say?
54:24Uh my memory is a little fuzzy with
54:27that, but it was about a ex-husband who
54:30found out that his ex-wife was on a jury
54:33and he didn't think that she would be a
54:36good juror
54:37and it just sounded very similar to what
54:39I had heard the judge and the attorneys
54:42speaking about.
54:42So, you then went to that juror and
54:45questioned her about that, did you not?
54:47I did not, Your Honor.
54:49Well, she says in this testimony that
54:51she didn't know about the Facebook until
54:52Miss Becky told me. Was she Was Was that
54:55incorrect?
54:58I'm not saying
54:59of Some kind of conversation went
55:01between the two of her for her to know
55:03about that post. Correct?
55:05That's true and I'm thinking that it
55:07could have been someone
55:09It wasn't me. I just know that it's not
55:11me that she talked to about that.
55:15Well, when the judge um
55:18The The judge was
55:20uh
55:21questioning
55:22uh
55:23the juror about this. Uh
55:31She also said that she had three
55:33restraining orders against him.
55:37Uh,
55:37and she
55:39also said
55:41uh
55:44I was very upset after she told me that.
55:46I have, like I said, I have three
55:48restraining orders against him, and I
55:50wouldn't have anything to do with him if
55:52I didn't have a child with him. But, I
55:54haven't seen him since 2014. She didn't
55:57Y'all didn't discuss that? The
55:58restraining orders?
56:00On the way from the jury from the jury
56:03room to the back chambers where the
56:06judge was, she was very
56:10scared. She was talking about the the
56:13three restraining orders that she had
56:16out on her husband at the time that they
56:18were divorcing, and she was scared that
56:20he would be trying to get back in
56:21contact with her again. Well, how do you
56:24know that? Did she tell you that? She
56:25was talking about that on the way to the
56:27jury room to the chambers with the
56:29judge.
56:34And in the court in
56:36in this hearing now that I'm looking at
56:39that the court has conducted, she said
56:43they're asking about this Facebook post,
56:45and she said Miss Becky said she went
56:48had went to look for the post again, and
56:51that it had been deleted. I don't know
56:55who she talked to or anything else, but
56:57she said apparently, do you recall her
57:00saying that? I do remember her saying
57:02that.
57:04And the court then said, "What did she
57:07tell you about that?" And the juror
57:09said, "It was after you let us go on the
57:11last break. I was very upset." This is
57:14what you're talking about.
57:16And she came down and talked to me and
57:17said that apparently, I don't know who
57:20talked to him, but
57:22he's he said he was drunk, and he
57:25removed the post. Do you recall that?
57:28I
57:29Well, she didn't tell me that, and I
57:31didn't talk with her about that.
57:34Well,
57:35you saw that post, the so-called apology
57:37post, did you not?
57:38Right, I did. And you assumed that was a
57:41post from her husband, did you not?
57:43Right.
57:45And then you talked to the juror about
57:47that, did you not?
57:49I did not talk with the juror about
57:51that.
57:52Well, who did you talk to about it? Did
57:54you bring it to the judge's attention?
57:56No, we didn't get a chance to talk to
57:58the judge about that.
58:15The ju- The court asked this juror, "Has
58:18the clerk discussed anything about the
58:20case with anyone on the jury?"
58:23The juror said, "Not that I'm aware of."
58:25The judge said, "Okay, she was just
58:26discussing with juror, she pulled me
58:30aside when we went downstairs after the
58:32last break. I want to say it was after
58:34lunch and we came back, and that's when
58:36she first told me about it, about this
58:39what we now know was a
58:42not a post from her husband."
58:44Right. But you assumed it was a post at
58:46the time, and y'all had a conversation
58:48about it, correct?
58:50Don't that just not ask answer the
58:52question.
58:53Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. Um,
58:54I believe that it was one of my staff
58:57that she talked to, and but it was not
59:00me that she talked to.
59:02And but the juror says, "And I want to
59:05say it was after lunch we came back, and
59:06that's when she first told me about it."
59:09She's talking about you.
59:10Correct.
59:12Then we went back into the court,
59:15and I never even got to sit on the jury.
59:17The judge says,
59:19"Uh
59:22The judge then stops the questioning,
59:23and she exits the room.
59:26Uh
59:27Mr. Griffin, your I think that satisfies
59:30it. She hadn't talked to anybody, hadn't
59:31expressed an opinion, hadn't made up an
59:33opinion. She's got an ex-husband and she
59:36has three restraining orders against
59:38him. The court said, "Mr. Mr. Waters,
59:41just obviously we all invested in this.
59:43My main concern, I certainly would love
59:45to
59:46but not love to, but would want to hear,
59:48you know, what one of these individuals
59:50said, but you know, she answered the
59:52questions as she did." Talking about the
59:54juror.
59:56Uh
1:00:00They've been uh
1:00:02have a call for you back um
1:00:05this juror and whether this was really
1:00:07her husband that
1:00:09put this post in that you talked to her
1:00:11about and apparently talked with the
1:00:12court about it at some point. Am I
1:00:13right?
1:00:15That's right.
1:00:34And then at the end the judge said that
1:00:36he was uh
1:00:39not too happy with your having talked to
1:00:41the juror before you talked to him. Do
1:00:43you recall the judge saying that?
1:00:45Yes, ma'am, I do.
1:00:47And did you pop right up there and uh
1:00:50say what you're saying now that you
1:00:51never talked to her?
1:00:53We never talked about it after that. I
1:00:55wasn't in the room when he said that.
1:01:26The judge brought up another thing right
1:01:28after sentencing that I want to explore
1:01:30with you briefly. Okay.
1:01:32All right.
1:01:34One of the big responsibilities of the
1:01:36clerk of court is to take control of the
1:01:39exhibits that are presented in court.
1:01:41Isn't that correct? Yes, ma'am.
1:01:43And there were sealed exhibits presented
1:01:46in this
1:01:47case
1:01:49that were photographs
1:01:51of
1:01:52the two decedents
1:01:54uh
1:01:55at Moselle
1:01:57when the
1:01:58law enforcement authorities first
1:02:00investigated the murders. Do you recall
1:02:02that?
1:02:02Yes, ma'am.
1:02:04And those photographs were sealed by the
1:02:08judge, were they not? Correct.
1:02:12And when the
1:02:15testimony about them was completed, they
1:02:17were under your control as the clerk of
1:02:19court, were they not? That's correct.
1:02:23How was it that those
1:02:26photographs
1:02:28came into
1:02:30public view?
1:02:33Are you talking about after the I'm
1:02:36talking about
1:02:37the the fact he he alluded to it on
1:02:40sentencing.
1:02:41Uh
1:02:42and said that he was frustrated about it
1:02:45and was going to try to look into it.
1:02:47Uh
1:02:48those photographs that were sealed court
1:02:51exhibits under your control found their
1:02:54way into the public media, did they not?
1:02:58I believe they did. Um and I think what
1:03:00happened it was um
1:03:03someone from the gallery took a picture
1:03:06from the screen that had some of the
1:03:09pictures on it if I'm remembering
1:03:11correctly.
1:03:16Did you ever allow anyone from the press
1:03:19to view these sealed exhibits?
1:03:21No, ma'am.
1:03:23Did you allow Netflix to ever
1:03:26uh
1:03:27examine the exhibits for trial? No,
1:03:29ma'am.
1:03:32How did you handle exhibits because you
1:03:35did uh have the press have great access
1:03:37to the exhibits and you say
1:03:40uh
1:03:41uh several times in your book that you
1:03:42had to stay after to be sure that you
1:03:44interacted with the press about these
1:03:46exhibits.
1:03:48Uh
1:03:48that's true, is it not? That is true.
1:03:51We if we had uh Mr. Jay Bender and then
1:03:54we had the the um pool photographers and
1:03:57someone from uh maybe the state, I
1:04:00believe, or the posting courier along
1:04:02with the court reporters, someone from
1:04:04court administration, and then someone
1:04:06from the clerk's office every night that
1:04:09would go over the exhibits to make sure
1:04:11everything was correct and in
1:04:15within our domain.
1:04:20Were
1:04:21any
1:04:23uh
1:04:24press people ever allowed to view the
1:04:26exhibits, even the sealed exhibits, uh
1:04:29that you had on file? No, ma'am. No,
1:04:32ma'am.
1:04:34What was the methodology for
1:04:36uh allowing them to uh examine the
1:04:39exhibits?
1:04:41How'd you handle that?
1:04:43I wasn't there a whole lot with when we
1:04:46did this every night, um but it's my
1:04:48understanding that the people that were
1:04:52involved with the exhibits and
1:04:53especially the court reporters,
1:04:55um and there was a certain time frame
1:04:57that they were allowed to take their
1:05:00pictures. And everything was um
1:05:03all all of the pictures were looked at
1:05:06by the court reporters that were there
1:05:08and the lady from court administration
1:05:10along with someone from my office and
1:05:13Mr. Jay Bender to make sure that
1:05:15everything was done correctly. What I'm
1:05:17asking is
1:05:19how you handled having them, the press,
1:05:22view these exhibits?
1:05:25If I remember correctly,
1:05:27the press, we had certain designated
1:05:31photographers and then someone, I think,
1:05:33from the state of the or the Post and
1:05:35Courier.
1:05:36And they were responsible for putting it
1:05:38out to on a stream for the rest of the
1:05:41media to access.
1:05:43that by photographing the exhibits as
1:05:45they were in your possession after court
1:05:47was over that day? That is correct.
1:05:50All right.
1:05:54And how did you handle the sealed
1:05:56exhibits in terms of
1:05:58their availability when these press
1:06:00people are there photographing exhibits?
1:06:03They stayed sealed.
1:06:09And so you think that the
1:06:11the you're aware of the fact that some
1:06:13of these
1:06:15on-the-scene photographs of the two
1:06:18decedents
1:06:20found their way into the public press.
1:06:22You're aware of that, are you not?
1:06:23Yes, sir, I am. Yes. And you contend
1:06:27that they photographed them in the
1:06:29courtroom?
1:06:30That is what I heard.
1:06:40All right.
1:06:47Finally,
1:06:48you have indicated about your book that
1:06:51some things that you put in there were,
1:06:53you called it literary license, not
1:06:55literally true, correct? Correct.
1:07:01Did you ever, by any kind of email
1:07:04communication,
1:07:06or in any way, shape, or form,
1:07:09uh
1:07:11indicate
1:07:14or state that
1:07:16you wanted a guilty verdict because it
1:07:18would increase the sales of book of the
1:07:20book. Did you ever say that in an email
1:07:23or verbally or in any other way?
1:07:27No, ma'am, I did not. It didn't matter
1:07:29to me
1:07:30if it was guilty, not guilty, or a
1:07:33mistrial.
1:07:36Well, in your book you suggest that
1:07:39the guilty verdict was what you wanted
1:07:41and you were fearful that that that a
1:07:43guilty verdict would not be rendered.
1:07:45You say that a lot about your feeling
1:07:47about wanting a guilty verdict, do you
1:07:49not?
1:07:50I do agree that that is said in the
1:07:52book.
1:07:53And and part of that is because I think
1:07:55it was a guilty verdict.
1:07:57Um Well, this is way that you were
1:07:59describing a time way before the verdict
1:08:01was rendered.
1:08:03Uh
1:08:04when you wrote about those things in the
1:08:06book. Isn't that correct?
1:08:08It is, yes. And you even have something
1:08:10where you said your eyes met with jurors
1:08:13and others at Moselle and y'all have an
1:08:16understanding, unspoken,
1:08:18that he was guilty. You said that in the
1:08:20book, did you not?
1:08:22I did say that in the book and I would
1:08:24consider that part of the literary um
1:08:29the word that we just said. Um but that
1:08:32that was there was nothing spoken with a
1:08:34juror at all at Moselle.
1:08:37Or anywhere else at the courthouse or
1:08:39anywhere.
1:08:40Um
1:08:42I think that was that's that's part of
1:08:44that poetic license that that we write
1:08:46to make something more
1:08:49apparent.
1:08:51But at no time did I read or try to read
1:08:54someone else's eyes and
1:08:57um
1:08:57that was just one of those gut feelings
1:08:59that
1:09:00that I wrote in the book.
1:09:46You wrote in the book
1:09:50speaking of a time before the jury
1:09:52verdict was rendered,
1:09:58"I was conflicted about knowing the
1:10:00Murdaugh family
1:10:02and about having so many people watching
1:10:04and listening to me as I read the
1:10:05verdict. I was mostly concerned about
1:10:08Alex being found innocent when I knew in
1:10:10my heart he was guilty. I had this fear
1:10:13that the goodwill the Murdaughs had
1:10:15built up in the community would
1:10:16influence the jury."
1:10:19You wrote that, did you not? Yes, fam.
1:10:24So, you had those feelings well before
1:10:26the verdict was announced in this case.
1:10:28You had some definite opinions and
1:10:30feelings about what the verdict should
1:10:31be, did you not? I did have a certain
1:10:33way that I felt.
1:10:35That wasn't any That That's not any
1:10:37poetic license what was said there.
1:10:38That's how you felt, correct?
1:10:40Correct. All right.
1:10:48Those are my questions. Are anything
1:10:49further from from the state, Mr. Waters?
1:10:56First National Bank
1:11:14I very briefly, Aaron. Yes, sir.
1:11:16All right.
1:11:17You were asked a number of questions
1:11:18about uh the interactions during the uh
1:11:21the in camera proceedings with the juror
1:11:23who was excluded. Uh were you in the
1:11:25room during the entirety of those
1:11:26interactions or just were brought in
1:11:28here or there as as those occurred? No,
1:11:31I was only brought in for my asking of
1:11:33my questions from Judge Newman. All
1:11:35right.
1:11:36And you were asked a little bit about uh
1:11:39sealed exhibits and uh about Judge
1:11:42Newman's comments at sentencing at the
1:11:44end of trial. And just to clarify, uh
1:11:47those were not um
1:11:49pictures of any sealed exhibits. It was
1:11:51a a picture that someone had taken in
1:11:53the gallery that had actually been
1:11:55disclosed. And that's what Judge Newman
1:11:56was talking about to your understanding.
1:11:58That was my understanding. Yes. And then
1:12:00after the trial, uh there was uh even a
1:12:03a post-trial hearing or some discussion
1:12:05about the fact that the some body cam
1:12:07videos had not been sealed and Judge
1:12:09Newman fixed that problem after the
1:12:11trial. Is that correct?
1:12:12Correct.
1:12:18Nothing further, Aaron.
1:12:20Just a couple questions.
1:12:21Mr. Hart Woodlan.
1:12:22Um let me understand this correctly. You
1:12:25would agree that you did release um all
1:12:28of the exhibits in this case, sealed and
1:12:30unsealed, to the Texas film crew. Is
1:12:33that correct? No, sir. Hm? No, sir. I
1:12:36did not release the the sealed exhibits.
1:12:40What about to to um
1:12:43to Netflix? Didn't you indicate to the
1:12:45judge they'd been mistakenly released
1:12:47and you're getting them back?
1:12:49As an error before when we realized
1:12:51everything, yes, those two did go and
1:12:54Netflix had not even they said they had
1:12:56not even looked at them.
1:12:58Did you get them back? We did get them
1:12:59back, yes.
1:13:00And what about a Japanese film crew? Did
1:13:02they get exhibits, the sealed exhibits?
1:13:04They did not get any sealed exhibits.
1:13:07What about NBC Universal?
1:13:09No sealed exhibits.
1:13:12But you do concede that Netflix did get
1:13:14sealed exhibits. They did it as an
1:13:16error. It wasn't listed.
1:13:18Well, I would say the court reporter
1:13:20didn't mark it on the on the listing.
1:13:24Well, why were you in such What Why were
1:13:27you so accommodating to these national
1:13:30documentary
1:13:32folks? I mean, is this good for the
1:13:33book? I mean, the the more documentaries
1:13:36out there about the Murdaugh thing, the
1:13:38better your book sales are?
1:13:40I mean, it was There was money in this
1:13:41for you, right? Again, it's about the
1:13:44money, right?
1:13:46Is your question now this
1:13:48Isn't it financially beneficial to you
1:13:51at the time to get more of these
1:13:52photographs out, more publicity, more
1:13:54Netflix, more HBOs, more Japanese?
1:13:59Doesn't that sell books for you? Didn't
1:14:00you see a financial advantage? Not at
1:14:02all. Okay.
1:14:04Thank you. No further questions.
1:14:07All right, Ms. Hill, you may step down.

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