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0:00this isn't make believe this isn't spicy
0:02hot rhetoric
0:03this is the truth of the faith but it's
0:06not just sound doctrine
0:08it's powerful and it's beautiful more
0:10than anything
0:11in this world this is what i was
0:13searching for at the age of 13
0:15when i was getting drunk and doing drugs
0:18because this kind of high
0:20sustains us through suffering in a way
0:22that i was looking for and just kind of
0:24failing to find
0:33[Music]
0:37hi this is scott hahn and i'm going to
0:38be speaking on how to understand
0:41the mass through sacred scripture it's
0:44great to be with you
0:45it's also a wonderful privilege to be
0:48able to share
0:49on the subject of sacred scripture and
0:51the holy eucharist
0:53it's not something that comes easily
0:55it's not something that comes naturally
0:57but
0:58through the supernatural grace and the
1:00power of the holy spirit
1:02i think we can all grasp this mystery
1:04and allow ourselves
1:05to be grasped by it i'd like to begin
1:07with what really has become my favorite
1:10story
1:10in the bible and it is found in luke 24
1:14beginning around verse 15. if you have a
1:17bible turn with me to luke 24 and if you
1:19don't
1:20just listen along because i'm pretty
1:21sure this story is
1:23quite familiar to you it's the story of
1:26a man named clopas
1:27and a companion of his who happen to be
1:30walking
1:31on the road that leads from jerusalem to
1:33the town of emmaus
1:35late morning on easter sunday when an
1:38apparent stranger meets up with them at
1:40least they fail to recognize
1:42the risen savior jesus himself and he
1:46asked them
1:46what is this conversation which you're
1:48holding with each other as you walk
1:50and then clopis responds are you the
1:52only visitor in all of jerusalem
1:54who doesn't know the things that have
1:56happened there in these days
1:57what things concerning jesus of nazareth
2:00a prophet mighty in deed and word before
2:03god and all of the people
2:05and how our chief priests and rulers
2:06delivered them up to die
2:08and and after he was crucified
2:11people from our company have reported
2:14visions of angels an empty tomb and they
2:16go on
2:16and on and on and he just lets them at
2:20any point
2:21jesus could have said hey time out take
2:23a closer look
2:25it's not as bad as you think do you
2:27recognize the voice at least but no he
2:29lets them go on
2:31and on until they basically shared their
2:34sorrow
2:34their shock their dismay at what they've
2:37mistaken to be a complete and
2:39abject failure on the part of jesus
2:42to fulfill a mission which they were
2:44sure he
2:46would accomplish at which point when
2:48they're finally done you'd think he
2:50might
2:51offer some words of encouragement and
2:53comfort cheer up it's not quite as bad
2:56as you think
2:57but instead what does jesus give them a
3:00gentle but rather
3:01firm rebuke o foolish men and slow of
3:04hearts
3:05to believe all that the prophets have
3:06spoken was it not necessary that the
3:10christ should suffer
3:11these things and then enter into his
3:13glory
3:14at which point they must have been
3:15tempted to say excuse me we're going to
3:17interrupt you
3:18sir stranger no it was not necessary
3:22for the christ to suffer these things it
3:25was
3:25necessary for the enemies of the messiah
3:28they're the ones who ought to be
3:30suffering those things not
3:32the christ but he doesn't give them a
3:34chance because he starts off
3:36right away beginning with moses and all
3:39of the prophets
3:40he interpreted them in all the
3:42scriptures the things concerning
3:44himself mile after mile
3:48this is at least seven or eight miles
3:50it's a long and winding road
3:51it would have taken hours so hour upon
3:55hour upon hour i i'm almost tempted to
3:58press the pause button here and just ask
4:00the question that should pop into our
4:02minds and that is
4:03if you were jesus and this was your
4:06first day back from the dead
4:08you know what are your options what
4:10would your choices be
4:11who are you going to visit you know me
4:14i'd be tempted to drop in on
4:15pontius pilate and maybe stop by and say
4:18hi to caiaphas and anas
4:20and hover over the sanhedrin just to let
4:22them know
4:23i'm back and maybe over the whole city
4:26of jerusalem so all of those
4:28folks who were shouting crucify him
4:30might realize you can't keep a good man
4:32down especially if he's the god-man
4:34but know of all of the options jesus
4:37selects
4:38the least likely to walk for miles
4:41to spend hours with what's his name
4:45clopas we don't know much if anything
4:47about him and an
4:48unnamed companion on easter sunday late
4:51morning
4:51early afternoon mid-afternoon until they
4:55arrived there
4:56at the town of emmaus and he looked to
4:58be going further so they constrained him
4:59to at least
5:00join them for a meal and that's when it
5:02happened when he was there at the table
5:04with them
5:05he takes he blesses he breaks and he
5:08gives
5:08and of course we know the rest of the
5:10story because that
5:12is the eureka moment that is the moment
5:14of revelation
5:16at long last their eyes are open and
5:18they recognize
5:19the risen savior the lord of lords the
5:21king of kings but
5:22just as suddenly as they recognize them
5:25he vanishes from their site
5:27and you've got to press the pause button
5:29once again and ask why
5:31is he playing hard to get now you see me
5:34no
5:35so what's happening here well they
5:36turned to each other and they could
5:38finally admit
5:39what they've been feeling for hours and
5:41hours mile after mile
5:42did not our hearts burn within us as he
5:45opened up the scriptures
5:47and then of course they admit that their
5:50eyes weren't opened until when until the
5:52breaking of the bread
5:54and again 2 000 years later we have that
5:56advantage of hindsight
5:57which is always 20 20 because now we
6:00know of course that in
6:02the taking the blessing the breaking in
6:03the giving these
6:05four actions these four verbs correspond
6:08exactly
6:09to the sequence that we read two
6:12chapters earlier in luke 22
6:14when jesus instituted the eucharist
6:16there in the upper room on holy thursday
6:19and so the moment of grace and
6:21revelation is the breaking of the bread
6:23did not our hearts burn within us as he
6:25opened up the scriptures
6:26but our eyes were open in the breaking
6:29of the bread and of course
6:30that expression the breaking of the
6:32bread becomes a kind of idiomatic
6:34expression back in the first century to
6:36refer to what we would call
6:38the holy sacrifice of the mass or the
6:41eucharist for short
6:43but this wasn't a flashback because
6:45clopis and his companion weren't
6:47numbered among the 12.
6:48so this isn't like a deja vu from a few
6:50nights earlier
6:52wait where have we heard this where have
6:53we seen this that must be jesus no
6:55this is the moment that the lord has
6:58chosen
6:58to be the grace of revelation in the
7:01breaking of the bread
7:02this is also the only explanation as to
7:05why jesus would vanish
7:07because once he got their faith to grow
7:10through the explication of sacred
7:12scripture up until the point
7:13where he took he blessed he broke and he
7:15gave
7:16that was his real presence
7:20in the breaking of the eucharistic bread
7:23his
7:23own body blood soul and divinity were
7:26manifest
7:27so why stick around if you know that
7:29your own resurrected body is going to
7:31become an impediment
7:33a potential obstacle once our faith
7:35grasps the real presence
7:38of jesus resurrected body blood soul and
7:40divinity his
7:41physical body is no longer needed if
7:43anything it has
7:44the potential for impeding faith to
7:47mature
7:47and to grasp the sacred mystery and so
7:50he vanishes
7:51their faith has finally reached that
7:53point but once again i want to just
7:55pause for a moment
7:57and reflect upon what we have seen so
7:59far because
8:00we've already discussed some of the
8:01options that were available to the risen
8:03savior
8:04where he could have gone who he could
8:06have seen but instead he's doing this
8:09i would just say at this stage that
8:12the risen savior our lord jesus
8:15prioritizes the importance of sacred
8:19scripture
8:19of understanding the law and the
8:21prophets in order to
8:22comprehend the sacred mystery of his own
8:25passion death and resurrection
8:27he places a higher priority upon the
8:29importance
8:30of knowing scripture a priority that is
8:33higher than many of us
8:34place on scripture i'm just saying you
8:37know
8:38i think we have to reassess how it is
8:41that we
8:42use our leisure in the light of how
8:45jesus chose
8:46to use his first easter sunday back from
8:49the dead
8:50and then what do these two disciples
8:52clopas and his friend decide to do
8:54they walk all the way back they
8:56basically retrace their steps by walking
8:59back
8:59to jerusalem for what purpose to find
9:02the apostles
9:03and then do what to recount what they've
9:05just experienced and so sure enough they
9:08get to the upper room they find peter
9:10and the other 10 and they recount what
9:12had happened for hours for mile after
9:14mile he opened up the scriptures her
9:16hearts were burning and then finally our
9:18eyes were opened in the breaking of the
9:20bread
9:20and i dare say that if i can imagine
9:23you know peter sitting there listening
9:26wondering wait a minute
9:28what just happened over the last several
9:30hours
9:33the risen savior appeared to you and
9:34what's your name again clopas yeah
9:36good to meet you again you know and your
9:38friend too you know
9:39while we were back here in jerusalem the
9:42whole time
9:43i'm just saying you know i am the the
9:46prince of the apostles the first pope if
9:48you will
9:49and you want us to believe that he spent
9:52most of the first day back with with you
9:55clopas right yeah you know and i i think
9:58clopas might have been
9:59feeling defensive if peter had made that
10:02kind of statement you like
10:04in half belief or unbelief you might
10:06have said well you know if you hadn't
10:08denied him three times
10:10maybe he would have appeared to you you
10:12know and i think peter might have
10:13retorted in defense
10:15well if he had it wouldn't have taken us
10:17hours to recognize him you know
10:19there we have a perfect occasion for the
10:22clergy and the lady to kind of square
10:24off and begin
10:25hurling accusations and allegations at
10:28each other but instead
10:30what does this lay person name clopas do
10:33he simply
10:34bears witness to the experience that he
10:36had through sacred scripture with the
10:38risen savior
10:39who caused their hearts to burn until
10:41finally their eyes were
10:42open in the breaking of the bread to the
10:44real presence of the risen savior
10:46who then vanished in order to give them
10:49the opportunity to go back
10:50and recount this experience to the
10:53apostles
10:54themselves you know and then who should
10:57appear but our lord
11:00our lord jesus the risen savior makes a
11:02second appearance there in the upper
11:04room
11:05with clopas and his friend and the whole
11:07body of the apostles
11:09and what does he do he spends the rest
11:11of easter sunday late
11:13afternoon early evening going back
11:16through
11:16the law and the prophets and the psalms
11:19and writings
11:20so that the apostles get it from his
11:22lips just like
11:24lopez and his companion you know i i
11:27want to say
11:28two or three things first of all so
11:31often when we think that what we're
11:33witnessing in our own life experience
11:36represents something of a colossal or
11:38abject failure on the part of
11:40god what ends up happening is that we
11:43discover that no
11:44this this abject failure was really a
11:46divine fulfillment
11:48not the way we would have scripted it to
11:50be sure but precisely the way
11:52it was scripted from the beginning in
11:54the law and the prophets
11:55the writings and the psalms the second
11:58thing i also want to emphasize
11:59is that 2 000 years later we find
12:01ourselves in a similar set of
12:03circumstances where
12:05the clergy and the laity have failed
12:08you know we have denied we have betrayed
12:10we have failed to recognize and all of
12:12the rest
12:13and so i suspect that this might afford
12:15us the opportunity
12:17to kind of you know trade accusations
12:19and allegations
12:20and all of the malpractice and that and
12:23there'd be some justification for it but
12:25what a waste
12:26what a colossal waste that would have
12:27been back then and now
12:29this is a golden opportunity we ought to
12:32seize the moment
12:33as laypeople to enter into a partnership
12:36with the clergy
12:37recognizing that we're all weak we're
12:39all wayward we have all fallen into
12:42wickedness
12:43and it's it's time for us to admit that
12:45this is why
12:47jesus became incarnate suffered died and
12:49rose again for our salvation because
12:51nothing less would really heal this
12:54illness of pride that has settled so
12:56deep down
12:56into our hearts and our minds the last
12:58thing i would say is this
13:00that jesus clearly prioritizes the
13:03importance of studying and understanding
13:06sacred scripture for the clergy and the
13:08laity
13:09because this alone illuminates the
13:11mystery of what happened to him
13:14but at the same time sacred scripture is
13:16not studied as some sort of intellectual
13:18exercise
13:20some academic affair no what's really
13:22going on
13:23is the twofold structure of the holy
13:26mass
13:26where we have the liturgy of the word
13:29drawing from the law
13:30and the prophets leading us to hear the
13:33gospel
13:34of the risen savior and then after the
13:37synaxis or the liturgy of the word
13:40all the action shifts over to
13:43the liturgy of the eucharist the holy
13:45sacrifice
13:47of christ in the mass and so what do we
13:50see well the same two-fold pattern
13:52today as what they witnessed and
13:54experienced back then
13:56no wonder the road to emmaus represents
13:59a paradigm
14:00in antiquity as well as in our own
14:03period
14:04for why it is god who could have done in
14:06101 different ways
14:08instead chose to do it this way so that
14:11we would realize
14:12wow from the beginning all of the
14:14promises all of the prophecies all of
14:16the types
14:17were in fact there but we were too blind
14:20to see we were too proud to beg
14:23for the grace of the holy spirit but
14:24once the darkness has settled then god
14:27can turn the darkness and the light
14:29the failure becomes fulfillment and we
14:32realize that in the breaking of the
14:33eucharistic bread the risen savior is
14:35present
14:36and his real presence is here to
14:39manifest
14:40the plan of god in our own lives in our
14:43own experience
14:45in our own apparent failures as well
14:48but let's continue moving on because as
14:50i reflect upon
14:51this event you know i reflect upon my
14:54own personal experience
14:55because you know years and years ago
14:58when i had the grace of conversion
15:00around the age of 14
15:02i was a teenager i was in trouble with
15:04the law i was what was
15:06described back then as a juvenile
15:08delinquent and for the sake of my
15:09mother's memory
15:10i won't go into the sort of details but
15:14i found christ
15:15he found me i heard the gospel and it
15:18pulled me out of the gutter
15:19that i was really falling into that
15:22conversion was spectacular and i began
15:24to read the bible with the help of the
15:26holy spirit
15:27i began to read it from beginning to end
15:29from the old testament of the new
15:31i think by the time i graduated from
15:33high school around the age of 17
15:35i was beginning my third round trip
15:37through the bible
15:38but i was an evangelical i was a
15:40protestant i was a vehement calvinist
15:42and so naturally
15:43i was also a catholic i was
15:45anti-catholic
15:47i say this because i i obviously now i'm
15:51a catholic and i had a conversion
15:53experience again about 35
15:55years ago where i was a presbyterian
15:58minister
15:59studying the bible discovering the early
16:01church fathers and then attending mass
16:03for the very first time in a basement
16:06chapel
16:07on a weekday at noon thinking well i
16:10might
16:11just investigate this like a journalist
16:13or as
16:14a doctoral student which is what i was
16:16just to see
16:17what if any traces of residue might
16:21remain
16:22in the catholic mass compared to the
16:24ancient liturgy in the early church that
16:26i've been studying
16:27in a doctoral seminar thinking that of
16:29the the 10 or 15 items maybe
16:32two or three on the checklist might
16:34still be
16:35around well i was in the back pew
16:39uh just kind of observing and i
16:42noticed that the list that was supplied
16:44by none other than
16:46saint justin martyr in the second
16:47century where he identifies over
16:5010 different elements i'm going down the
16:53opening right
16:54the penitential right the scriptures you
16:57know
16:58the prayers and i'm thinking wow you
17:00know it's a perfect match
17:02but it wasn't really until all the
17:05action shifted from the liturgy of the
17:06word
17:07through the liturgy of the eucharist
17:08where i heard the anaphra the
17:10eucharistic prayer
17:12and as i'm in the back pew listening
17:14carefully with all of my
17:16heart and mind kind of open i heard the
17:19words of consecration and as soon as
17:21those words left the lips of that
17:23priest down there by the altar i felt
17:26like the last
17:27drops of my own doubt were just draining
17:29out of my head and my heart
17:31i'm in the back pew at the edge of my
17:33seat whispering my lord and my god
17:35that's you not bread oh my
17:39and by the time he consecrated the
17:40chalice i found myself
17:42literally drooling with this holy thirst
17:45for his precious blood
17:46trying to figure out what was going on
17:48inside of my brain
17:50and inside of my heart and as i'm
17:52sorting through these conflicting
17:53thoughts and emotions i began to
17:56hear people all around me begin to chant
17:58as if on cue
18:00lamb of god who takes away the sin of
18:02the world have mercy on us
18:03then they said it again lamb of god who
18:05takes away the sin of the world of mercy
18:07the third time the lamb of god who takes
18:09away the sin of the world grant us peace
18:11they dropped to their knees and i
18:12watched this priest
18:14hoist this consecrated host and
18:17pronounce
18:18a fourth time behold the lamb of god who
18:20takes away the sin of the world
18:22and that was for me a eureka moment you
18:25know much like clopas and his companion
18:27had theirs suddenly i am looking
18:28straight ahead and
18:30hearing lamb of god lamb of god lamb of
18:32god and i knew where i was
18:35i wasn't just in a basement chapel for a
18:37catholic mass for the first time in my
18:39life
18:40i was in the back of the bible in the
18:42book of revelation
18:43which i had studied as a high school kid
18:45in college and then in seminary
18:47which had actually translated all 22
18:50chapters
18:50from the greek into english and it took
18:52me an entire semester to do so
18:55but i never really understood it i
18:57always had assumed that i always heard
18:59that it was about
19:00you know the antichrist or about the
19:02second coming until i
19:03translated the whole book and i realized
19:05that the word antichrist doesn't occur a
19:07single time in the entire book
19:09nor does the phrase second coming and so
19:12i'd come to the conviction that at least
19:13i knew what it wasn't about but i didn't
19:15know what it was about
19:17until i'm hearing lamb of god lamb of
19:19god lamb of god and that's when i
19:20remembered
19:21that that is the principle title used to
19:23describe jesus in that last book
19:25the apocalypse the book of revelation 28
19:28times in 22 chapters
19:30and it's the technical term for the
19:32liturgical animal the lamb for sacrifice
19:35which isn't found anywhere else in the
19:37new testament and so naturally while
19:39everybody's going forward to receive
19:40holy communion i'm going backwards
19:43into my bible looking down at the pages
19:45and sure enough
19:46there's the lamb of god in revelation 5
19:49and lamb of god lamb of god
19:50over and over again and then i see wait
19:52a second what's that
19:54holy holy holy lord god of hosts
19:58they must have memorized that verse in
19:59revelation 4
20:01as well as the lamb of god and then i
20:03begin to notice the gloria
20:05the alleluias as well and there's an
20:08altar up there with chalice is just like
20:10the one down here
20:12and there is christ wearing a white robe
20:15liturgical vestment just like that
20:16jesuit is up in front of me
20:18and then all of a sudden i begin to
20:20realize wait a second the songs
20:22the prayers the sacrifice of the lamb
20:25all of this is like a match it goes
20:27beyond the list that saint justin martyr
20:30gave me
20:31i've been experiencing the mass as
20:34though it's
20:35on earth as it is in heaven and by the
20:37time the priest pronounced the
20:39benediction and by the time everybody
20:40was left i was still
20:42sitting there stunned in the back pew i
20:44had barely stirred
20:46i'm looking straight ahead i'm looking
20:48down at the bible i'm looking up toward
20:50heaven trying to figure out
20:51did i go to a basement chapel for a
20:54weekday mass or did i go up to the
20:55heavenly jerusalem
20:57where the angels and the saints and the
20:59martyrs were offering the same prayers
21:01the same
21:02songs the same sacrifice and suddenly i
21:04realized that the proper answer was sort
21:06of like
21:07c both a and b i'm on earth but it's as
21:10it is in heaven
21:12about an hour later i finally left
21:15i'd had more than a eureka moment i'd
21:18had a graced
21:19time where suddenly i realized that all
21:22of my anti-catholic fervor
21:24for more than 10 years had been wasted
21:27even though i might have passed a
21:28polygraph
21:29with an a-plus nevertheless i had
21:31discovered
21:32i was sincere but i was sincerely wrong
21:35about the mass
21:36this is not a sacrilege this is not
21:39unbiblical
21:40this is not wrong-headed this is the
21:42fulfillment of the word of god
21:44and so i began to attend at mass on a
21:47daily basis without telling really a
21:49soul
21:50i also found myself beginning to fall in
21:52love
21:53with our lord in the in the blessed
21:56sacrament in the holy eucharist
21:58as i had years before in sacred
22:00scripture
22:01what a perfect match i began to realize
22:04that not only is the new testament
22:06fulfilled by the old
22:07not only is the new testament concealed
22:10in the old and the old testament is
22:11revealed and fulfilled
22:13by the new but what had happened 2 000
22:16years ago
22:17in the first century is exactly the same
22:20thing that is happening now in the 21st
22:22century
22:23where the real presence of the risen
22:25savior comes to us
22:27in the breaking of the eucharistic bread
22:30and i want to propose to you brothers
22:32and sisters
22:34this is good news this is good news no
22:36matter what political party might get
22:38elected
22:39or re-elected in november this is good
22:42news like politicians
22:44and economists and celebrities and
22:46athletes
22:47could never deliver to you no matter
22:49whether we won the super bowl
22:51you know last year or next i mean this
22:53is a victory
22:55this is truthful this is beautiful
22:58this is powerful this is why we're on
23:00the planet this is why we are roman
23:02catholics
23:03this is why we are called not only to
23:05attend mass but to share christ
23:08with other people because let's face it
23:10he didn't just
23:12bleed on the cross suffer and die for
23:15those who happen to be catholics
23:17right now but for the entire human race
23:20and so we have got to step back and
23:23realize
23:24that it was necessary it was fitting
23:26that the christ should suffer these
23:28things before entering into his glory
23:30but that's where he is now i want to
23:33reach down and just
23:34adjust the gear shift because i'd like
23:36to shift gears for us
23:37because i'd like to share an experience
23:39that i had oh a few years ago
23:42it was at the pittsburgh airport which
23:44is near my home in steubenville ohio
23:47i grew up in pittsburgh and so it was
23:48kind of nice to have a
23:50airport so close and convenient as my
23:52own home airport
23:54well one day i ran into a fella who
23:56recognized me i just kind of assumed
23:57that he was
23:58somebody who watched the eternal word
24:00television network
24:02ewtn perhaps you've seen it there in
24:04ireland uh he said are you
24:05scott hahn i said yes i am and he turned
24:08to me and said you don't recognize me
24:09and i'm thinking to myself that's not
24:11how tv works you know it's a one-way
24:14medium it's not a two-way medium you see
24:16me i don't see you
24:18and then he looked at me again and he
24:19said come on sinclair high back in 1975
24:23and the scales fell from my eyes i'm
24:25like wow chris long
24:26time no see a handshake turned into a
24:29bear hug
24:30and he was so excited more than i was
24:32and i didn't know why he said i've been
24:34looking forward to this day for so long
24:36i'm like
24:37why is that he said because i am now
24:40what you
24:40are i am a bible-believing evangelical
24:44new testament christian not that silly
24:46catholic kid that you knew
24:48way back in high school i'm like well
24:50all right then
24:51i have some news for you chris because
24:54i am a now uh a bible-believing
24:57evangelical new testament
24:59catholic christian sort of what you and
25:01your friends were
25:03back in high school and it's hard to
25:05describe the look of shock
25:07and horror that came over his face
25:10but he was almost at a loss for words
25:13for a moment and he said well
25:14i'm not sure how that could have
25:16happened you knew the bible back then
25:18you know and
25:19he hands me a business card and i hand
25:21him mine dutifully
25:23and he said we've got to connect and
25:25sure enough about a week later we did
25:27he called me and we exchanged greetings
25:29and that was over in less than 20
25:31seconds because
25:32he wanted to dive right in uh reminding
25:35me that's
25:36the way i used to be back in high school
25:37and so he reminded me of this
25:40experience this memory of his that when
25:42i would walk into the cafeteria
25:45and sit down and join my friends
25:47including him
25:48most of them were catholic and i had
25:50already experienced this
25:52great conversion and so i was out to
25:54evangelize all my friends
25:56especially my catholic friends for those
25:59poor benighted souls
26:00and he said you know you would you would
26:02walk and sit down and we were talking
26:04the sports or the weather and so you'd
26:06join us in talking about
26:07the pittsburgh pirates or the steelers
26:09or the the storms you know
26:11but you'd shift the conversation you
26:14once
26:14asked where in the new testament do you
26:17all find the sacrifice of the mass as
26:20catholics huh
26:21and of course we didn't know the bible
26:23so we didn't have an answer but you were
26:24always so kind as to provide the answer
26:27to your own
26:27question because you would quickly point
26:29out as you did on that occasion
26:31that the mass is not a sacrifice the
26:34mass
26:34is a meal the sacrifice is calvary
26:38you remember that and i'm like no chris
26:39i don't but it sounds like something i
26:41would have said back then
26:43he said well if you don't mind i'm going
26:44to turn the cafeteria tables right
26:46around on you
26:47and put to you what you put to us
26:49because i'm convinced now
26:51that not only is the question right but
26:53your answer back then was too
26:55that the mass the eucharist is just a
26:57meal that calvary is
26:59the sacrifice so where in the new
27:02testament do you
27:03find the sacrifice of the mass the
27:06the eucharist and at one level i'm
27:08thinking make my day this is what i live
27:10for
27:11at another level i'm praying lord help
27:13me to build a bridge to reach this
27:16brother in christ who is doing his best
27:18to make sense
27:19out of this sacred mystery and so i said
27:20well first of all chris
27:22let's recognize the fact that we share a
27:24lot of common ground
27:26as christians whether we're protestant
27:28catholic or ex-catholic or anti-catholic
27:30you know the fact is
27:32i do believe as a catholic christian
27:34that calvary is the sacrifice
27:36i also believe that the eucharist that
27:38jesus instituted
27:39is a meal it was the last supper paul
27:42calls it the lord's supper
27:44and so he said wow i thought you were a
27:46real catholic there for a moment well i
27:47am
27:48but the fact is we share a lot of common
27:50ground he said
27:51you didn't put it that way back then i
27:53said because i didn't realize it back
27:55then
27:56but i said what all christians believe
27:58now in the 21st century
28:00just so happens to be the one thing that
28:03nobody could have possibly
28:05believed back then at calvary even if we
28:08had been standing there on good friday
28:10witnessing the crucifixion
28:12of the son of god none of us as devout
28:15jews following jesus would have said
28:17well there
28:18is a sacrifice if ever there was one
28:21because
28:22every devout jew would know that a
28:24sacrifice
28:25can only be a sacrifice if it is offered
28:28inside the temple of jerusalem on top of
28:30the altar
28:31with a levitical priest standing by to
28:33preside at the sacrificial liturgy
28:36and whereas jesus is crucified outside
28:39the walls of the city
28:40far from the temple where there were no
28:42altars nearby for anyone to interpret
28:45this as a sacrifice i said you know if
28:48you've been standing there what you
28:50would have witnessed and what you would
28:51have recounted later in that day
28:53could not have been a sacrifice it would
28:55have been a roman execution plain and
28:58simple
28:58and rather brutal and bloody at that and
29:01maybe it martyred him if you believe
29:03that he was innocent
29:04and he was dying for the truth but a
29:06sacrifice
29:07hello not even close so the question
29:11that came to me
29:12after years of study and opposition to
29:15the catholic faith was
29:16how in the world did a roman execution
29:20get turned into a sacrifice and one so
29:23holy that it ended up retiring
29:25all of the animals that were offered on
29:27the jerusalem
29:28altar in the temple and he's like i
29:31don't know i said i didn't either and i
29:33went in a search of an answer to that
29:34question
29:35and i found it in the last place i
29:37expected to
29:38in the writings of saint paul all of the
29:40early church fathers kept pointing me
29:42back
29:43in these patristic sources of this key
29:45passage
29:46in first corinthians 5 verse 7
29:49where paul just reminds the corinthians
29:51of what he assumed they already know and
29:54that is christ
29:54our passover has been sacrificed there
29:58therefore let us keep the feast and so
30:00what he goes on to explain about the
30:02feast is what we would call the
30:04eucharist in the subsequent chapters
30:06but that phrase christ our passover lamb
30:09has been sacrificed was the answer that
30:12i've been looking for it was the answer
30:14to the questions that were posed by the
30:15early church fathers chris
30:17because the only way to make sense out
30:19of what happened to jesus on good friday
30:22is by backing up and looking at it in
30:24the light of what had happened
30:25earlier on holy thursday to understand
30:28calvary as a sacrifice you've got to go
30:31back and look at the upper room on holy
30:32thursday to see what they were doing
30:34because what were they doing
30:35they were celebrating the passover one
30:37last time
30:38the passover the old covenant was not
30:40only celebrated for the last time
30:42by jesus it was also fulfilled by jesus
30:46because he was the lamb of god who came
30:48to take away the sins of the world
30:51and so jesus is celebrating it the last
30:53time he is fulfilling it as the lamb of
30:55god
30:56but he's not fulfilling it so as to
30:57retire it or to do away with the
30:59passover
31:00but to transform the passover of the old
31:02covenant
31:03into the passover the new and how does
31:06he do it
31:07through the words of institution and so
31:09wait a second you know this was
31:11something new for me
31:12but it was something rather common for
31:14the early church fathers
31:17and i'm looking at it and i'm realizing
31:19wait a minute
31:20if the eucharist that jesus instituted
31:22to be the passover of the new covenant
31:24is a passover then it can't be just a
31:27meal
31:28because the passover of the old covenant
31:31was
31:32also a meal but only secondary
31:35it was primarily a sacrifice i mean you
31:38could just ask any lamb if he could talk
31:40he would tell you it's more than a meal
31:41it's a sacrifice
31:43and if that's true in the old covenant
31:44where these irrational
31:46animals called lambs had their throats
31:48slit and their bodies drained of the
31:50blood
31:51and then their carcass is roasted in
31:52order to have the sacrificial communion
31:55how much
31:55more true is it in the new covenant
31:58where the lamb of god is rational he's
32:00not losing his life
32:02he's laying it down as a gift of love to
32:05us and so i began to realize chris that
32:09if the eucharist that he instituted on
32:11holy thursday was just a meal
32:14then calvary was just an execution but
32:17if the eucharist that he institutes
32:19on holy thursday in the upper room in
32:21the context of
32:23celebrating the passover the old
32:24covenant and fulfilling it as the lamb
32:26of god
32:27if that is the passover of the new
32:29covenant it can't be just a meal
32:32or it wouldn't even rise to the level of
32:33the passover
32:35it had to be where the sacrifice of
32:37jesus
32:38was initiated and then suddenly calvary
32:41is where
32:42that sacrifice is consummated because
32:45in fact the eucharist that he institutes
32:47and calvary that he endures
32:49are two sides of the same coin of the
32:51new covenant
32:53this shows us that it was more than
32:55rhetoric when jesus said this
32:57is my body which is given up for you and
32:59then he takes the chalice near the end
33:01of the supper and he says
33:03this is the chalice of my blood the
33:04blood of the new covenant poured out for
33:07you
33:07and for many for the forgiveness of sins
33:10do this
33:10in remembrance of me the disciples must
33:13have wondered what is he saying
33:14what is he doing you don't just make
33:16things up in the middle of a sacred
33:18liturgy
33:19and they might have wondered they might
33:20have even been tempted to interrupt but
33:22none of them did chris
33:23because the next day they began to
33:26realize wait a minute
33:27that was more than bread that was where
33:30his body was laid down
33:32that was where his blood was poured out
33:34that was more than a meal that was more
33:36than just the old testament passover
33:39he is the lamb of god laying down his
33:41life and the proof that it's more than
33:43rhetoric the proof that it's more than
33:45ritual
33:46is precisely what is happening there on
33:48good friday at calvary
33:50and he's like wait a second scott what
33:52did you just say
33:53and i'm thinking to myself well probably
33:55about 10 pages worth of transcript
33:58what do you mean what did i say he said
34:00if the eucharist is just a meal then
34:02what
34:02then calvary is just an execution i said
34:06only if the eucharist is the passover
34:07the new covenant can you make sense
34:09out of the words of institution and
34:11realize it's more than rhetoric
34:12it's more than ritual there was a
34:14reality that was set in the motion there
34:17through the words of institution
34:19the sacrifice was initiated then alone
34:21do we understand how all christians in
34:23the 21st century
34:25could profess that calvary was more than
34:27an execution it is the consummation
34:29of the sacrifice i said chris holy
34:32thursday is what transformed good friday
34:34from an execution to a sacrifice just as
34:37easter sunday
34:38is what transformed that sacrifice into
34:41what we call the blessed sacrament
34:43precisely because he is raised from the
34:45dead
34:47and so in the holy eucharist in the
34:50breaking of the eucharistic bread
34:52such as clopas and his friend witnessed
34:54you begin to sense
34:56aha then you realize that
34:59the body that was there in the upper
35:02room is the same
35:03body that is there in the eucharistic
35:06bread
35:07only it's not there getting ready to die
35:09it's the same body that was hanging from
35:11the cross
35:12it's the same body that was buried in
35:14the tomb on holy
35:15saturday but the risen body of jesus
35:19on easter sunday is in fact
35:22what we profess to be the real presence
35:24of his body blood
35:26soul and divinity so it is the
35:28resurrection of jesus
35:30that transforms his body into something
35:32that is more than resuscitated
35:35his innocence is not just vindicated
35:37it's more than a historical event for
35:39which there were eyewitnesses in an
35:41empty tomb and burial cloths and other
35:44proofs no
35:45this is more than the fulfillment of
35:47prophecy the resurrection
35:49ends up being disclosed as the
35:52transformation of jesus body
35:54from being like it was in the upper room
35:57a mortal body
35:58like it was hanging on the cross dying
36:01like it was buried in the tomb
36:03but now the blessed sacrament is the
36:05real presence of the risen savior
36:07his body blood soul and divinity is not
36:10just resuscitated like
36:12lazarus it's divinized it's deified
36:15by the power of the holy spirit the real
36:18presence of the risen savior is brought
36:20to
36:20us as it was brought to them
36:24and when we receive holy communion this
36:26is no ordinary meal
36:28like an ordinary meal is when we have
36:30burgers and fries or maybe a pizza
36:32and we assimilate all of that to our
36:34body so that one day later there's no
36:36pizza
36:36it's just now a part of us but when
36:39jesus
36:40gives to us his resurrected body in the
36:42power of the holy spirit
36:44as saint augustine explained to his
36:46congregation this is no
36:47ordinary meal will we just assimilate
36:50food to our body no
36:51his immortal body assimilates our mortal
36:55flesh
36:56to his glorified humanity setting in the
36:59motion
37:00more than just you know a chain of
37:02events like the transubstantiation of
37:04bread and wine which becomes the body
37:06blood soul and divinity of christ
37:08no his body assimilated to us in holy
37:11communion
37:12sets in the motion the eventual
37:14fulfillment of the pledge that he gave
37:16to his disciples
37:18one year earlier in john 6 after
37:21feeding the 5000 multiplying the loaves
37:23with the
37:24filling the 12 baskets he gets the bread
37:26of life discourse
37:28and then in john 6 verses 53 and 54 he
37:31says my flesh is food indeed
37:33my blood is drink indeed he eats my
37:35flesh and drinks my blood
37:37i will raise him up on the last day
37:41the eucharist is not only the
37:42resurrected body of christ
37:44it becomes the instrumental means by
37:46which god is going to resurrect
37:48our bodies because he is assimilating
37:51our mortal flesh
37:52to his own immortal body it's almost too
37:55good to be true
37:57unless it is and it is the truth of the
38:00gospel
38:00but for us as catholics i mean this took
38:04place for more than an
38:05hour chris's brains were exploding every
38:07bit as much as mine had
38:09years earlier and i said if you have any
38:11more questions feel free to call back
38:13thinking well that'll never happen
38:14and one week later he called back and
38:17then another week and another week over
38:19the course of months not only was our
38:21friendship renewed
38:22more powerfully than before but
38:25i was witnessing a transformation of a
38:28catholic
38:29who left and it was not an ex-catholic
38:31he was also an anti-catholic
38:33reassessing all of these things in the
38:35light of the new testament
38:37because that's really all he wanted to
38:39be as he told me all i wanted to be was
38:40a new testament christian
38:42and i'm like yeah tell me about it but
38:44only when you read the new testament in
38:46the light of the old and see how the old
38:48is fulfilled by the new in christ
38:50especially the passover do you really
38:52see the convergence
38:54like all of the spokes that converge
38:55upon the hub of a wheel
38:57the entire old testament the law the
38:59prophets the psalms the writings
39:01all are pointing to jesus and the
39:03memorial
39:04of his passion his death and his
39:07resurrection
39:08the memorial what's that holy thursday
39:10the eucharist that he instituted
39:12the passion and death well that's good
39:14friday his burial and then his
39:16resurrection that's easter sunday
39:18we might see three or four days but we
39:20actually see
39:21one sacred mystery and this went on for
39:24months
39:24not only was our friendship renewed but
39:27he came to shock me months later by
39:29telling me
39:29that he and his wife were coming to
39:32confession
39:33for the first time in decades and when
39:35they left they felt
39:37free as birds because the next day they
39:38were going to receive christ's body
39:40blood
39:41soul and divinity this is who we are as
39:44christians this is what we do as
39:45catholics this is why
39:47when you see people who've left the
39:48catholic faith so often
39:50it's because they've left something that
39:52they never really understood
39:54and i would say this is what god wants
39:57to do
39:58through the power of christ through the
39:59grace of the holy spirit
40:01he wants to renew his church but not
40:03just institutionally
40:04he wants to show us what his son
40:07instituted in the holy eucharist
40:09and how he comes to us you know in the
40:11midst of this pandemic we often find
40:13ourselves wondering along with the rest
40:14of the world
40:16if there is a god why does he allow this
40:18illness
40:19this suffering this amount of death not
40:21only with coven
40:22but all of the other things as well and
40:25you look back
40:27on good friday and you realize
40:30okay there was never greater evil than
40:33that
40:34there was never greater suffering than
40:36what jesus endured for us
40:39but there was also no greater gift from
40:41god to us
40:42because that event which was the
40:44greatest evil which entailed the
40:46greatest suffering
40:47becomes the greatest gift of the
40:49salvation of the human race
40:51how does that work well look at what
40:54connects the dots
40:55the eucharist that he institutes the
40:57sacrifice that he consummates
40:59the sacrament that he now offers through
41:02the holy sacrifice of the mass
41:04the eucharist is the resurrected body of
41:07jesus
41:08coming to us edible communicable
41:11through the power of the holy spirit
41:13it's not only divinized
41:15it is now divinizing us if we allow him
41:18to do so
41:19if we frankly and freely and fully
41:21acknowledge all of the known mortal sins
41:23that we have committed
41:24all of the idols that we have worshiped
41:26all of the impediments and obstacles
41:28that we have put up
41:29god must be much more madly in love with
41:32us
41:32than we have ever imagined this is not
41:35spicy hot rhetoric that comes from some
41:37overzealous
41:38protestant convert because you know he's
41:40just kind of making it seem better than
41:42it is
41:43no the fact is it's much better than my
41:45words are expressing
41:47when we get to heaven and we see the
41:49glorified body of jesus that we were
41:51feeding upon
41:52in holy communion all of our lives you
41:54know you're going to look at me and say
41:56you were right
41:57your words did fall flat on their face
41:59your words fell
42:00short of the glory that was present in
42:03the mystery of the eucharist
42:06and i got to tell you this is what the
42:08world needs this is what i need this is
42:10what you
42:11need and i'm convinced that this is why
42:14i
42:16i counted the greatest joy and a
42:18singular privilege to be able to share
42:20with you
42:21how it was that some zealous
42:24protestant evangelical calvinistic
42:27ex-catholic i mean
42:29this is why we call it the saint paul
42:30center where we're filming
42:32my talk right now because saint paul is
42:35my hero but the reason why paul was such
42:38a powerful apostle is because saul was
42:41such
42:42a powerful persecutor you know god just
42:44took
42:45all of that energy that he was wasting
42:47and attacking
42:48christ's bodies the believers and just
42:51redirected it like you would like a
42:53you know a rubber band that you pull
42:54back so far and when you let it go it
42:56flies even faster in the opposite
42:58direction you know i really do believe
43:00that if you know people who left the
43:02church if you know people who oppose the
43:04church
43:04you don't know people who are going to
43:06die as ex-catholics you know people who
43:08may be set up by
43:09god's merciful providence like bowling
43:12pins
43:12to fall in love with our lord in the
43:15blessed sacrament more
43:16than when they were growing up as cradle
43:18catholics which i suspect the majority
43:20of
43:21folks in ireland have done and i
43:23realized that you're going through a
43:24desert
43:25and i also realize that god often does
43:28more with less
43:29and so he allows a darkness sometimes to
43:32settle
43:33in order to light the match that will
43:35show how the light
43:36shines brighter when there's darkness
43:39let's face
43:40it we are we are confronted by
43:43evils in the world today that are
43:45growing
43:46faster and stronger than most of us
43:49expected but i would also say this
43:53that the good news is not only better
43:56than the bad news is bad
43:58but the good news is immeasurably better
44:02than we thought it was
44:03when we first heard it or when we heard
44:05it for the hundredth time
44:07we go back and blow off the dust of
44:09these stones and we realize
44:11that the 12 articles of the apostles
44:14creed
44:14are like diamonds and rubies and
44:17emeralds this is who we are as catholics
44:19this is what we profess
44:21and the creed as the hinge of the sunday
44:23mass turns us from how god has kept his
44:25word
44:26to how that word who has become
44:28incarnate
44:29is going to feed us in order to
44:31resurrect us
44:32to get us home to heaven where we're
44:34going to have a family reunion that will
44:36make the happiest vacation
44:38look like a garbage dump in comparison
44:40and once again
44:41this isn't make believe this isn't spicy
44:44hot rhetoric
44:45this is the truth of the faith but it's
44:47not just sound doctrine
44:49it's powerful and it's beautiful more
44:51than anything
44:53in this world this is what i was
44:54searching for at the age of 13
44:57when i was getting drunk and doing drugs
44:59because this kind of high sustains us
45:02through
45:02suffering in a way that i was looking
45:04for and just kind of failing to find
45:07and so i want to propose to you that we
45:09ought to allow our lord
45:12to prioritize the importance of studying
45:14and understanding scripture
45:16but not just in an intellectualistic way
45:19but in a eucharistic way
45:20take god at his word pick up the word
45:23that is inspirated in scripture but
45:25don't stop there
45:26prepare yourself to encounter the word
45:28who was incarnated
45:30in the holy eucharist ready to feed us
45:32and to fill us
45:33with the power of his own love we call
45:36that the holy spirit
45:37he transformed death from the loss of
45:40life
45:40to the gift of life and so he heals us
45:43not only of
45:44illness and dying like he did for
45:46lazarus he heals
45:48us of this disordered fear of suffering
45:51and illness and death
45:53because if he did that with his own
45:55death guess what he wants to do with our
45:57suffering and our dying
45:59he wants to transform from the loss of
46:01life to the gift of life
46:03he made his death a prayer he revealed a
46:05death that is stronger
46:06he revealed a love that is stronger than
46:08death not just back then and there
46:11but here and now so i want to invite you
46:14to take god at his word and to ask for
46:16the power of the holy spirit
46:18to come down upon you because i am
46:20convinced that if god can get through to
46:22a guy like me
46:24he can get through to you and if you can
46:26get through to guys like us he can use
46:28us to get through to anybody
46:30and believe me he wants to even more
46:32than we want him to
46:34thank you so much and let us close just
46:36briefly in a word of prayer
46:38in the name of the father and of the son
46:39of the holy spirit
46:41amen almighty god our father in heaven
46:43we thank you
46:44for the gift of jesus christ your
46:46eternal son
46:48your only begotten and beloved son our
46:50savior our king
46:51our physician our healer our teacher and
46:54a friend like we've never
46:56imagined in the name of jesus we ask you
46:58now to pour out the holy spirit upon us
47:01to illuminate our minds with the light
47:03of your word
47:04but to enkindle our hearts with the holy
47:06passion
47:07and fire of your love don't just
47:10transform bread and wine
47:12into christ body blood soul and divinity
47:14transform
47:15sinners like us into true saints until
47:18we're home and we can see your face
47:20together in heaven for we ask all of
47:23this in the name of the father and of
47:25the son
47:25and of the holy spirit amen thank you
47:28and god bless you
47:32dr han thank you so much that was really
47:35wonderful
47:35um really in depth and a lot to think
47:38about there
47:38thank you thank you very much and it's
47:41amazing how
47:42when we think about the mass and it's
47:44sort of it's something that we
47:45it becomes almost a routine in a way and
47:47when you when you open it up for us like
47:49that
47:49it's amazing to think how we can almost
47:51a routine
47:55which in some ways is good but
47:57familiarity can't breed contempt you
47:59know or at least
48:01that's it that's it but no thank you
48:03because it really opens up in
48:05a new way helps you to appreciate
48:06aspects that maybe you hadn't considered
48:07before
48:08and if you don't mind i'd like to ask
48:10you a few questions just as a
48:11way and that'll be great and the first
48:14question i want to ask you you were
48:15talking towards the end there about
48:16inviting the holy spirit in and really
48:18trying to sort of allow the lord to
48:20speak to you and to kind of
48:21engage with that one way obviously we
48:23could do that is is by sort of
48:25opening our hearts to the scriptures a
48:26little more and as somebody who has an
48:29awful lot of experience studying and
48:30reading the scriptures
48:31um would you be able to give some
48:33recommendations or advice
48:34to catholics who maybe are kind of
48:37coming across
48:38maybe the scriptures for the first time
48:39or wondering how to start how to
48:42begin what's the best way to sort of
48:44approach it because it could be an
48:45overwhelming sort of a
48:46a task let's say to engage um with the
48:50scriptures for the first time
48:51what what advice would you give uh two
48:53or three thoughts i would say just
48:55begin right where you are it's like
48:56waking up in the middle of a parade
48:58where do you start to catch what's going
49:00on just in the middle of things so
49:02pick up the bible and begin perhaps with
49:04the gospel of john
49:06that's what i began with right after my
49:07conversion as a teenager
49:09and uh and john is so understandable and
49:12yet so beautiful and deep
49:14i would also suggest the uh the apostle
49:17at the ministry that kimberly started 20
49:19years ago
49:20as i mentioned earlier i'm here in the
49:21studios of the saint paul center
49:23uh being recorded and i'm so grateful
49:26for the saint paul center
49:28we were called to launch this for the
49:30purpose of imparting biblical literacy
49:32to catholic lay people in biblical
49:34fluency for our clergy and for our
49:36teachers
49:37so that catholics could really learn how
49:39to read the bible from the heart of the
49:40church
49:41and the heart of the church is exactly
49:43what as we we experience in the
49:45in the mass where the old testament and
49:47the new testament readings
49:49come together in a kind of divinely
49:51coordinated way
49:52uh i would also suggest that when you
49:55begin reading the bible each time
49:58you ask the holy spirit to come i i've
50:00lost
50:01count of how many times i have asked
50:03come holy spirit living in mary come
50:05holy spirit living in mary
50:07i remember asking people to pray over me
50:10for the gift of the holy spirit
50:12and i couldn't even i couldn't even
50:13admit to them the reason why
50:16at the age of 14 i was reading the bible
50:18i was following along i was
50:20mostly comprehending the gospel of john
50:22but i also found myself
50:24practically falling asleep evening after
50:27evening trying to
50:29read the bible and so they prayed over
50:31me
50:32nothing happened about a month later
50:34something happened that i don't usually
50:35share because it was kind of personal
50:38but suddenly i opened up the bible and i
50:40began to see it
50:42as though it was like you know when you
50:43put on glasses in a theater to see a
50:45three-dimensional movie
50:46it just became alive it started to pop
50:49off the page i began to make connections
50:52that i don't think i ever would have
50:53made just by human reason alone
50:56but the gift of faith in kindled by the
50:58graces of the holy spirit
51:00i'm convinced i have to give god the
51:02spirit
51:03all the credit for whatever truth i
51:05communicated today from his word because
51:07that's what began
51:09way back in the 70s for me and that's
51:11why
51:13my heart is still burning within me as
51:16our lord opens up the scriptures through
51:18the holy spirit
51:20you know i'm one last thing to answer
51:22this question i don't mean to go on so
51:23long but it's been four months since i
51:25was in the classroom and so
51:26you're paying the price i'm reminded of
51:30you know when
51:30when when jesus was done with colopus
51:33and his companion as well as simon peter
51:35and the apostles
51:36in the upper room that's that easter
51:37sunday evening you know
51:39weeks later he told simon peter and the
51:41others wait
51:43wait here you know wait for what the
51:45promise of the father wait for
51:47the power of the holy spirit to come
51:48down upon you because then you'll be my
51:50witnesses
51:51and i think peter might have been
51:52tempted to say wait a second time out we
51:55already are your witnesses what more is
51:57there
51:57to witness to than what we've already
51:59seen but we don't know how to give
52:02testimony or bear witness we don't even
52:03know how to understand
52:05god's word sometimes apart from the gift
52:07of the holy spirit and so
52:09in acts 2 at pentecost when the holy
52:11spirit fell down upon
52:13peter what's really remarkable is he
52:15picks up right where jesus leaves off by
52:18his first sermon it begins with five
52:20verses from the old testament prophet
52:22joel
52:23and then he sums up jesus public life
52:25and ministry in one verse acts 2
52:2722 his arrest trial and execution in one
52:30verse verse
52:3123 and then suddenly he's off and
52:34running
52:34about the resurrection not one verse not
52:37two verses not five not ten
52:39but over a dozen verses he's going on
52:41and on explaining how
52:43the resurrection is the main event and
52:45that whole section is just
52:47shot through with quotations from the
52:49psalms and the prophets and the writings
52:52because the holy spirit has opened his
52:54eyes the eyes of his heart to understand
52:57that bearing witness is not just
52:58recounting past events that i was
53:01there to experience it really is probing
53:04and penetrating
53:05into what was really going on there
53:08these
53:08human events were the sacred mysteries
53:11and this is what we want when it comes
53:12to the bible this is what god wants us
53:14to do
53:15at the saint paul center for biblical
53:17theology and i'm convinced that if we
53:19just
53:20you know a little bit goes a long way if
53:21you ask the holy spirit to help you to
53:23understand god's word
53:25the father is not going to be up there
53:26in heaven saying now i don't think so
53:29now it's for somebody else
53:31the prayer itself that we give to him
53:33was probably originating
53:35in the sacred heart of jesus before he
53:36even came to our lips
53:38we've got to believe that god wants to
53:40do this for us more than we want him to
53:42so take him at his word ask him for the
53:44holy spirit and then buckle up
53:46because i think the best is yet to come
53:48for each and every one of us
53:52thank you very much let's go the second
53:54question i have for you is
53:56uh possibly relevant to the situation in
53:58ireland but i don't think it's limited
54:00to ireland uh specifically
54:02and it's it's maybe something that a lot
54:03of people may be experiencing in their
54:05own families or with their friends or
54:06with colleagues
54:07is that there's a a trend obviously in a
54:09sort of more secular direction let's say
54:11and a lot of people maybe who were
54:13baptized catholics initially might not
54:15sort of be
54:16kind of inclined to to be that
54:18interested in practicing their faith
54:20in the same way um and something maybe
54:22in terms of having conversations with
54:24those who might have told them matter to
54:25us and our toes to us
54:27how would you go about having a chat
54:28with them about you know i remember a
54:30friend of mine one time said
54:32um oh yeah i attend mass at christmas or
54:34at easter time but i don't understand
54:36why i should go every week you know what
54:38what's the special thing about going
54:39every week it's the same same prayers
54:41the same that
54:42how would you respond to that to
54:43somebody who really has very little
54:45background perhaps their understanding
54:46in that sense well i mean the first
54:49thing i would say is friendship
54:51just enter into a friendship with them
54:53you know not in order to get their scalp
54:55as we would say
54:56in the us you know but just for the sake
54:58of friendship
54:59in john 15 15 our lord in the upper room
55:02on holy thursday giving them the
55:03eucharist
55:05tells his apostles i no longer call you
55:07servants because the servant doesn't
55:08know what the master is up to
55:09i now call you friends friendship with
55:12god was
55:12practically unthinkable even to the most
55:15brilliant of the ancient greek
55:16philosophers
55:18but friendship with god is not plan b
55:20it's why god created us that's why he
55:22made the world
55:22and redeemed it the way that he did and
55:24so entering into friendship with other
55:26people where you treat them as ends in
55:28themselves and not just as a means to an
55:30end
55:30and find common ground it might be
55:32movies it might be music it might be a
55:34novel
55:35you know it might be a landscape or you
55:37know it might just be a walk in the
55:39countryside
55:40but build friendship and trust the holy
55:43spirit will work through that friendship
55:44and then pray for those people
55:46and you know once you enter into
55:48friendship you begin to have the freedom
55:50to share
55:51the enjoyment of life you know no
55:53friends think you're is going to think
55:54you're weird if you recommend some movie
55:56you know who are you to impose your
55:58theatrical taste on us or if you
56:00recommend a restaurant oh
56:02stop imposing your culinary tastes and
56:04shoving them down our throats no
56:06friends do that and they end up enjoying
56:08friendship all the more whether they go
56:09to that movie or that restaurant or not
56:11you know and so if you can say in
56:14friendship you know i grew up catholic
56:15but i
56:16wandered off but lately i've come back
56:18and i've begun to realize
56:20you know that it's it's more there's
56:21much more to it it's not only real but
56:24beautiful and powerful
56:26and enjoyable i mean they might not say
56:28oh wow preach a homily i haven't been to
56:30mass in so long i could use
56:32a homily or two you know but they might
56:35they might turn you off they might not
56:37you know if you've been praying for them
56:38the chances are real
56:40that god has already prepared them to
56:42enter into this next level of
56:44conversation
56:45but i think you should also be willing
56:47to recognize and admit
56:48that you know the mass for me for years
56:50was routine
56:51you know i remember going to england
56:53back in 1975 when i played guitar in a
56:55band called
56:56the continentals and we were in windsor
56:58to see the changing of the guard
57:00i mean it was jaw-dropping for an
57:02american tourist like me
57:03you know but i suppose after the fifth
57:06or tenth time you're like
57:07it's just routine you know let's get on
57:10with something new
57:12uh i think the mass can be routine
57:15and not much more for us you know but
57:17when we
57:18do what pope saint john paul ii called
57:21for
57:21cultivate eucharist amazement you know
57:25as catholics we've grown so accustomed
57:27to the words of consecration to
57:29transubstantiation to ordination
57:31to apostolic succession to real presence
57:35i think i i think it's amazing to me
57:39how unamazed we are at all of this that
57:42is happening in fact
57:43the eucharist is much more unbelievable
57:46than we let ourselves believe
57:49if we would just step back and say wait
57:51a second are you saying that that
57:54was bread but it's now the body blood
57:56soul and divinity of the second person
57:58of the eternal trinity
57:59the son of god the son of mary dead
58:02and risen to feed us to raise us
58:07to not only get us home to heaven but to
58:09cause us to enter into his glory
58:12okay let's rewind the tape and go back
58:13over this again we almost need to
58:15de-familiarize ourselves with all the
58:18doctrine
58:18that we heard and then re-familiarize
58:21ourselves to recognize
58:22those dusty stones are like rubies and
58:25emeralds and that
58:26the eucharist is like the hope diamond
58:28only more
58:29you know so we talk sports we talk music
58:32we talk movies and other things too
58:34but at some point we ought to be willing
58:36to admit to ourselves and then to our
58:37friends
58:38you know i took a whole lot of grace for
58:41granted growing up
58:42i'm coming back and i'm seeing a lot
58:44more than i ever realized before but
58:46it's still
58:47i still have a long way to go i still
58:50get bored at mass i still fall back into
58:52the same routine
58:54you know and so we're not going to
58:56pretend to be superstars when we're
58:57still
58:58sinners hoping to become saints but
59:00that's what friends are with each other
59:01they're honest
59:02and not honest about the low things that
59:04are secular
59:05but also the sacred things that are
59:07beautiful
59:10thank you very much and uh that's i know
59:12that's certainly very helpful advice as
59:14well in my own context and hopefully for
59:15our viewers as well
59:16um the final question i'd like to ask
59:18you dr han is with regard to
59:20you know you've given us a lot of really
59:22wonderful information and a lot to chew
59:24on let's say
59:24um so would it be possible i'm sure you
59:27could give us some
59:28some pointers or um directions in terms
59:31of for those of us who'd like to read up
59:32a little more on this or
59:33and learn a little bit more with regards
59:35to the scripture and the mass
59:37and could you recommend maybe books
59:39podcasts
59:40youtube videos um anything like that
59:42that might be useful for those of us
59:43looking to
59:44to go forward from here and to educate
59:46ourselves more
59:47you know funny you should ask yeah i'm
59:50glad you asked so this is not going to
59:52come off just like uh
59:55this has been my thing for years for
59:57decades and so
59:58i think especially of a trilogy of books
1:00:01that i wrote after doing a whole lot of
1:00:03research
1:00:04but i spent a lot of time trying to
1:00:06bring it down so that ordinary people
1:00:08could get it
1:00:09so the first of the trilogy is a book
1:00:11called the lamb's supper
1:00:12the mass as heaven and earth which i
1:00:15sort of summarized
1:00:16uh in the first half or so of my
1:00:18presentation
1:00:19the the second book is called the fourth
1:00:22cup
1:00:22uh which is on the uh the mystery of the
1:00:25eucharist and uh
1:00:26so much of what i was talking about with
1:00:28my friend chris
1:00:30so the lamb supper the fourth cup and
1:00:32the third in the trilogy is called
1:00:33consuming the word
1:00:35the new testament and the eucharist in
1:00:37the early church i didn't have the time
1:00:39to go into this but
1:00:40you know when all i wanted to be was a
1:00:42new testament christian
1:00:44then i discovered that the only time
1:00:45jesus ever said
1:00:47the word the or the phrase the new
1:00:49testament
1:00:50is in luke 22 verse 20 when he
1:00:52instituted the eucharist
1:00:54what we call the eucharist is the only
1:00:56thing jesus ever called the new
1:00:57testament the only time he used
1:00:59the word the new testament and he didn't
1:01:01add write this in remembrance of me
1:01:03he said do this and so that third book
1:01:06consuming the word
1:01:07the new testament and the eucharist in
1:01:08the early church is where i describe
1:01:10what i discovered that
1:01:12for the first two or three hundred years
1:01:14the only thing the new testament church
1:01:16called the new testament
1:01:18was the eucharist because the new
1:01:20testament was a
1:01:21sacrament before it became a document
1:01:24according to the document
1:01:26and if you want to be a new testament
1:01:28christian well guess what
1:01:30you may be called to become a
1:01:31eucharistic catholic and so
1:01:33i should also mention that besides those
1:01:35three books that are written
1:01:36at a somewhat easy breezy level i've
1:01:39also
1:01:40made those three books into three talks
1:01:42and we have those
1:01:43available on the saint paul center's
1:01:45website
1:01:46it's a trilogy of talks called the
1:01:48eucharist in scripture
1:01:49it's part of what we call the real
1:01:51presence project
1:01:53about it two years ago there was a a pew
1:01:56research study
1:01:57that showed that 70 of american
1:01:59catholics believe that the eucharist is
1:02:00only a symbol
1:02:02only about 30 percent believe in the
1:02:05real presence now
1:02:06you know it's amazing that 70 percent
1:02:08don't believe in the real presence
1:02:10but what amazes me just as much is that
1:02:1230 percent of american catholics
1:02:14do believe in the real presence because
1:02:17that is an amazing grace to actually
1:02:20see that the eucharist is no longer
1:02:22bread and wine but in fact the body
1:02:24blood soul and divinity of christ
1:02:26and so he launched this real presence
1:02:28project as the
1:02:29as the main course the the main event in
1:02:32the saint paul center about two years
1:02:34ago
1:02:35so the eucharist in scripture consists
1:02:37of a trilogy of
1:02:38talks based upon the trilogy of books
1:02:40the lamb's supper
1:02:42the fourth cup and then consuming the
1:02:44word and i
1:02:45i hope that can help but i would also
1:02:47just say as you continue reading sacred
1:02:49scripture
1:02:50pick up the catechism of the catholic
1:02:52church and begin looking up the sections
1:02:54that treat
1:02:55the eucharist and the passover and holy
1:02:57communion
1:02:58the real presence because that is the
1:03:01that is the single most scripturally
1:03:04saturated catechism
1:03:05in the last 2000 years and when i first
1:03:08laid my eyes upon it i
1:03:10i had tears in my eyes because i thought
1:03:12at long last
1:03:13catholics are going to realize you know
1:03:16that the bible really is
1:03:18the sign that points us to christ in the
1:03:20eucharist
1:03:21or as my wife said we spent all those
1:03:23years studying the menu
1:03:25while those cradle catholics got to
1:03:26enjoy the meal bring those two together
1:03:29it
1:03:29is the most powerful beautiful
1:03:31combination of all
1:03:32so scripture of course the eucharist but
1:03:35also the catechism of the catholic
1:03:37church
1:03:37dr chan thank you so much um i really
1:03:40appreciate you giving the time
1:03:41um over the last little while to speak
1:03:42to us and i know that our viewers will
1:03:45find this very useful and very helpful
1:03:46in our own education about our faith
1:03:48and it's really something we strive for
1:03:50obviously as catholics but
1:03:51within year 2000 as well to sort of not
1:03:54only have
1:03:54a fellowship in our faith but also to
1:03:56learn more and to come closer to god in
1:03:58that way and to learn more about him so
1:04:00that we can
1:04:00we can develop that friendship with him
1:04:02too and uh we thank you so much for the
1:04:04work that you're doing and your own
1:04:05ministry as well
1:04:06thank you very much for being with us
1:04:08thank you for the invitation thank you
1:04:09for the privilege and
1:04:11and for just the interaction here at the
1:04:12end as well i've really enjoyed that
1:04:14thank you and also we'd like to invite
1:04:16you at some point whenever our
1:04:18restrictions
1:04:18um ease hopefully we might be able to
1:04:21have you in person
1:04:22as one of our retreats in the future
1:04:23which will be wonderful as well
1:04:30you're welcome god bless you
1:04:41[Music]
1:04:45you

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