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Attack on Democracy: Anti-Gender-Movements in Europe — Transcript

by Heinrich-Böll-Stiftung · 10,678 words · 2,188 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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1:02[Music]
1:20from the central
1:21european university in budapest given
1:24a
1:28[Laughter]
2:27[Music]
2:44[Music]
3:38[Music]
3:46[Music]
3:56[Music]
4:15[Music]
4:26[Music]
5:14[Music]
5:45gender studies under central european
5:48university in budapest
5:50and omovietv
5:54[Music]
6:46september
7:28foreign
7:56foreign
8:10um
8:53a
8:57shows that studying
9:00and teaching gender studies is more
9:03important than ever
9:05so keep on following what we are doing
9:07and thank you again for your support
9:11um what i would like to do today in this
9:15talk
9:16is um trying to give a big picture and
9:22discuss what are the
9:26specialities what are the
9:29important elements of a paradigm change
9:32and let me flag immediately that i don't
9:35agree with henning
9:36i don't think that this is a backlash
9:40what i
9:40think is a new paradigm and
9:44this is a good start for a discussion
9:47after the talk
9:48but i would like to talk about this new
9:50paradigm and also
9:52i would like to say that my work is um
9:56uh cannot be possible without
10:01collaboration and discuss discussion
10:03with other colleagues
10:04like veronica jabalska and esther kovacs
10:07who are my phd students
10:09and i would like to say that this type
10:13of new
10:13knowledge production is a form of
10:16resistance and the form of
10:18simply challenging the idea of
10:22a intellectual who is sitting
10:25alone in the ivory tower and has got
10:28fabulous ideas on its own
10:30right so uh without further ado
10:33i have a paper which i would like to
10:35read sometimes stop
10:37but i hope the translators will give me
10:41a sign
10:41if i'm too quick or um uh
10:45or i'm saying something which doesn't
10:47make sense right okay
10:49so in this paper i would like to offer a
10:52framework
10:53for view for viewing the democratic and
10:56illiberal
10:57developments in europe one
11:00largely informed by critical feminist
11:04perspective
11:05existing feminist research has already
11:08shown
11:08that a gender sensitive approach allows
11:11allows us
11:12to see the cracks in the success story
11:17of the 1989 socio-economic transition
11:22as well as raising the neoliberal model
11:25of representative democracy i
11:28argue that gender is a crucial in order
11:31to understand
11:32the gendered foundation and the dynamics
11:36of the current paradigm change
11:39with these illiberal formations
11:42drawing from existing definitions and
11:45analysis
11:46this paper aims to analyze the modus
11:49operandi
11:50of illiberal democratic states from a
11:52gender perspective
11:55in order to capture how a liberal
11:57governance
11:59is produced and sustained on the level
12:02of ideology
12:03discourse strategies policies
12:07and financial operations as far as
12:09gender politics is concerned
12:12the aim is to look at the form of
12:14governments who are feminist lands
12:16analyze the gender politics underlying
12:19illiberal governance
12:21and the consequences for pro-equality
12:24policy
12:27my main point is that illiberalism
12:30is a nationalist response to globalized
12:34neoliberal democracy and it is not a
12:37backlash
12:38but this is something fundamentally new
12:41illiberal democracy is usually defined
12:44as a regime
12:45which combines certain democratic
12:48procedures
12:49such as multi-party system and general
12:52elections
12:53with a disregard for constitutional
12:57limits to power
12:59and lack of protection of citizens
13:03individual rights
13:06but i argue that the liberal minimum
13:10both in europe
13:11and elsewhere in europe
13:15has only been achieved for the price
13:19of turning blind eye to the dark legacy
13:23of europe
13:24the continuity of exclusionary
13:28and marginalizing ideologies and
13:30practices
13:32as well as political violence streaming
13:34from it
13:35which has been successfully transmitted
13:39through family lineages social medias
13:44during the last period and also
13:47through civil organizations
13:50one long-standing contagious issue in
13:53academic debates
13:55on this has been the conceptualizing of
13:58this new
13:59post-war wave of no conservative
14:02mobilization
14:04and millions on the streets demanding
14:08that
14:11marriage for all is not acceptable or
14:14abortion should be banned this is not
14:17something we should be ignoring
14:19as a fact which one might see them
14:23as merely as reactionary counter
14:25movement
14:26an anti-modernist backlash against
14:29democratic civil society
14:32others argue that should in fact be
14:34perceived as legitimate part of civil
14:37society
14:39i agree with clifford bob that civil
14:42society has never been
14:43a harmonious field of like-minded ngos
14:47and ill-liberal actors have always been
14:50a part of it
14:51albeit have often gone unnoticed by
14:54social movement scholars
14:56who romanticize civil society
15:00as a necessary progressive force in both
15:04hungary and poland
15:05the weak foundations of the liberal
15:08consensus
15:09coupled with the legitimization of
15:12resistance
15:13towards now liberal reforms by political
15:16elites
15:18left a void which the populist right
15:23swiftly filled by articulating
15:26dissatisfaction in the language of
15:30nationalism
15:31like in several countries europe the
15:34right
15:35won the battle for cultural hegemony
15:39long before in poland
15:42for example it was able to define key
15:45challenges of today's politics as well
15:49as
15:49re-write national symbols in a way that
15:52serves the agenda in relations to the
15:55communist past
15:57the cursory glimpse at political
16:00analysis
16:01reveals a tendency on the side of some
16:05western commentators to portray
16:08illiberal changes in central europe
16:11as backslide into authoritarianism
16:15comparing hungary and poland to russia
16:19china and turkey however i argue in this
16:22paper
16:24that illiberalism should not be
16:26perceived as a revival
16:28of authoritarianism but rather a new
16:32form of governance
16:33resisting sorry that was a good fight
16:37resting on the previous democratic
16:40concepts and the institutions
16:42and on the and that can be better
16:46understood when goes beyond
16:48routine comparative analysis of
16:50political systems
16:52along east west divide and instead
16:55traces the gradual socio-political
16:57developments in these countries
16:59by placing them in the broader global
17:03context
17:04by post-communist democracies have their
17:06own socio-historic
17:08historical legacies the fact
17:11that illiberal tendencies are increasing
17:14all
17:14across europe suggests that they should
17:17rather be viewed as
17:20local symptoms of structural failures of
17:23european neoliberal democratic project
17:27dark legacies of europeanization in the
17:29current form
17:31as argued by mabel berezin while the
17:34maastricht
17:35treaty was set up after the two world
17:37wars
17:38as means to promote peace and stability
17:42by fostering economic and political
17:45integration
17:46in its aftermath it also
17:50eradicated various sources of national
17:54security
17:55and political integration in it after
17:58and allow allowing the right to regroup
18:02around a new enemy the european union
18:06constructed as a security threat
18:11okay sure
18:14as berezin demonstrated on the example
18:17of the rise of the national front in
18:20france
18:21the process of political economic
18:24and cultural european integration which
18:27was
18:28guided by the neoliberal doctrine
18:31resulted in the gradual dismantling of
18:35institutions
18:37embedding people international policy
18:40and the consequent weakening of citizens
18:43political
18:44social economic and cultural security
18:48the culture of insecurity and fear
18:51has been further boosted by the triple
18:55crisis
18:56of the european project financial
18:59security and the so-called refugee
19:01crisis
19:02which revealed cracks in the foundation
19:06of the post-national world in the face
19:09of the scarcity
19:10of alternative sources of security
19:14offered on the european level and lack
19:16of electable
19:18left-wing alternative project this
19:21crisis created
19:22culture but right-wing answers
19:25to these emerging problems have been
19:29supported by
19:30mainstream politicians and eventually
19:34began
19:34to appear normal i argue that
19:37illiberal european states can be best
19:40understood as majoritarian nationalist
19:43response
19:45to the global preponderance of a system
19:49of globalized neoliberal democracy which
19:52has shaped
19:53the relationship between individuals
19:56and the state during the last four
19:59decades
20:01now libero neo patriarchy this is the
20:03concept by campbell
20:05had dire consequences for equality
20:08politics
20:09globally while it might ostensibly
20:13support a narrow and market-oriented
20:16version of gender equality
20:19it simultaneously dismantled
20:22the welfare state using austerity
20:24rhetoric for legitimization
20:27undermined social solidarity
20:31and rejected any structural reform
20:34which are needed to reach genuine
20:36equality
20:38the result has been a system which
20:41accepts some token women in position of
20:44power
20:46but leaves masses of women behind
20:50in consequence progress in reaching
20:53gender equality
20:54has stagnated in the last two decades
21:00adding to a general feeling of
21:02frustration
21:04and disappointment with equality
21:06politics in general
21:08and leading many women no
21:11to doubt equality paradigm itself
21:16and seek alternative empowerment
21:20in anti-modernist and nationalist
21:23projects
21:24such as familialism and far-right
21:28extremism and supporting the anti-gender
21:32movements
21:33for voters of illiberal projects
21:37rejection of liberal democracy is a way
21:40of
21:41opposing globalization
21:45neoliberalism and the monopolization
21:48of the political process by the elites
21:52as well as the influence of
21:54transnational institutions
21:57on national politics and values
22:01as ivan krastev quotes
22:04uh ivanka stated i quote they believe
22:07that they are entitled to govern
22:10they never can have the final say and so
22:13they are ready to blame
22:14the separation of powers and other
22:17inconvenient principles
22:19liberal democracy for their frustration
22:22end quote
22:24the leaders of the populist right
22:26present themselves
22:27as national remedy against the power of
22:31global elites
22:33the voice of the so-called losers of the
22:36globalization
22:38despite the fact that they themselves
22:41are
22:41the part of the winners in order to
22:44resolve this contradiction
22:46a liberal elites are selectively
22:48adjusting their
22:50life stories to fit the new master
22:54narrative
22:55of the suffering of the nation under to
22:58totalitarianism
23:01unlike mainstream political parties
23:03across europe
23:04which have become largely technocratic
23:08and policy oriented illiberal parties
23:11are offering
23:12an openly ideological project
23:16as a nationalist response to the
23:18globalized neoliberal democracy
23:21contemporary european illiberalism rests
23:24on
23:25six interconnected pillars
23:29and here are the six pillars and i very
23:31quickly would like to introduce that
23:35and then i would like to offer another
23:38understanding of this form of governance
23:42the polypore state and then
23:45i will conclude so that's basically the
23:47plan so if you survive the introduction
23:50of the uh theoretical introduction of
23:52when i was actually arguing
23:55that these illiberal states are not a
23:58backlash but
23:59a part of the
24:02it's a resistance to the neoliberal uh
24:06uh political system then you are
24:09actually
24:10you know doing well okay so what are the
24:12six
24:13uh uh uh characteristics first
24:16majoritarian nationalism
24:18as a state ideology means that the state
24:21is becoming
24:22an apparatus of majority rule
24:26so this is not a backlash this is an
24:29occupation
24:31under the guise of the national will
24:33illiberal parties offer their supporters
24:36the opportunity to impose their views
24:39on the rest of the society minority
24:42rights are rejected
24:44as threatening the majority's right to
24:47do
24:47what they please and dignity and
24:50solidarity
24:51is only granted to those
24:55belonging to the restricted community of
24:57the
24:58so-called real patriots those who oppose
25:02the so-called national will
25:04are considered illegitimate at the best
25:07traitors serving foreign interest
25:11at worst freedom fighter rhetoric
25:15is another discursive pillar of this
25:18nationalist revival
25:20the cult of the independence fighters
25:23standing against totalitarianism
25:26has been a key tenant of memory politics
25:29with research institutes set up in
25:32different countries
25:34to emphasize the exceptionality
25:37of memory politics in central europe
25:41and i had the privilege of being here at
25:44the berlin
25:45foundation for one of the very
25:48interesting conferences which has been
25:50actually exploring
25:51like this um
25:56uprising for example the kurd soldier in
25:59poland but the analogy
26:01to national suffering under nazi germany
26:03and the soviet union
26:05contemporary transnational institutions
26:07such as the european union or the united
26:10nations
26:11are often pictured as cultural and
26:14economic
26:14colonizers serving the elite imposing
26:18foreign interest
26:19and threatening traditional values
26:22illiberal politicians on the other hand
26:24present themselves as freedom fighters
26:28protecting ordinary families from the
26:30reign of the
26:32transnational economic bodies
26:36they are strengthening economic
26:38independence of the nation-state
26:40introducing a kind of national
26:43capitalism
26:44through instruments such as taxation of
26:47foreign-owned sectors
26:48or nationalization of crucial branches
26:52of the economy
26:53building up a national oligarchy
26:57national layer of oligarchy this
27:00cooperation of the critical
27:03leftist discourse on the economy is one
27:05of the reasons of the electoral success
27:08of illiberal parties which are using
27:11anti-capitalist rhetoric
27:15to maintain a capitalist system so
27:20that's why for example eric fassen in
27:22the open democracy
27:23wrote about the neo-fascist movement
27:27of neo-liberalism right illiberalism
27:31is also set on familialism
27:35a form of biopolitics which views
27:38traditional family as a foundation of
27:41the nation
27:42and subjugates individual reproductive
27:46and self-determination rights
27:49to the normative demand
27:52of the reproduction of the nation
27:55as an illiberal response to the
27:58demographic crisis
28:00familialists
28:05familialist yeah the families policies
28:08have substituted
28:10dedication to gender equality and
28:13attacks on reproductive rights
28:15have followed
28:19born of disillusionment with globalized
28:22neoliberal democracy
28:24the illiberal regime seems to provide
28:27solutions
28:28to emerging problems yet instead of
28:32challenging the functioning of the
28:33global capitalist system
28:36or weak state pathologies illiberal
28:38elites
28:40largely reproduce them by concealing the
28:43fact
28:44behind robust nationalist anti-colonial
28:48and anti-liberal discourse so this is
28:51again not a backlash
28:52but it's what i called facadism
28:56so there is another facade which is
28:58actually pulled
29:00up to see the rear the reality
29:04um from producing a real systemic change
29:07by uh challenging unjust power
29:11structures by increasing tax progression
29:14illiberal governments obtain funds
29:18through cuts to the already undefined
29:21sectors and sustain already
29:24existing hierarchies while
29:28simply moving groups and individuals
29:31along their lines therefore the
29:33revolution
29:34preached by populist leaders
29:38can be largely seen
29:42as a carefully manufactured
29:45illusion based on
29:48the misconception that a state can
29:52escape
29:53its semi-peripheral status by simply
29:57turning to celebrating its sovereignty
30:00and national identity rather than
30:04through
30:05strengthening cooperation
30:09aimed at reforming the global
30:12capitalist system itself
30:16along with the issues created by the
30:19neoliberal neopatriarchy
30:21he illiberalism poses some new and
30:24distinct challenges to the women's
30:27movement
30:28gender studies as an academic discipline
30:32and emancipatory politics in general
30:36the need to look at functioning of
30:38illiberalism
30:40from a critical feminist perspective
30:43is all the more pertinent in the context
30:46of the existing literature
30:48which pays little or no attention to the
30:52role of gender
30:54as a social relation of power
30:57and women as political actors play
31:00in both the breakdown of democratic
31:03regimes
31:04and possible resistance to illiberal
31:08processes
31:10so i argued in this section about
31:14why this illiberal states
31:18are illusions and not backlashes
31:21and now i'm talking about this new form
31:24of state i'm actually arguing that this
31:26is a new form of state
31:28together with my colleagues with esther
31:30kovac and the
31:32let me stress that so in terms of its
31:35modus operandi
31:36the liberal regimes has been understood
31:39as a polypore state
31:41but before you start googling what
31:43polypore is
31:44this is this mushroom which lives on the
31:47trunk of the tree
31:48and sucks all the energy from the
31:51tree and produces nothing else than the
31:54polypore
31:56and of course you can say this is a very
31:59naturalizing metaphor but by the end of
32:03the talk
32:04i hope you will be convinced that
32:07if we look at this new form of state
32:11through the eyes of the polypore so we
32:13see it as a polypore
32:15then we have got strategies
32:18how to fight against it right
32:22so um
32:30so basically i'm arguing that polyporism
32:34is the modus operandi of the of the
32:38liberal state and this polyporism
32:42is deeply gendered and i will give you
32:45this
32:46uh explanation why this is deeply
32:48gendered and then i will conclude
32:50so um
32:55so democracy exploitation the
32:58appropriation of democratic concepts
33:00institutions and mechanisms so
33:03again this is not a backlash this is not
33:06building down
33:07this is not but it is the appropriation
33:11while most analysis of illiberalism
33:14concentrates on the ideological side
33:18its language of appropriation strategies
33:21civil society adjustment mechanisms
33:24funding and policies are deeply genders
33:27due to the character of their
33:29governments instead of calling these
33:31regimes a liberal democracy
33:33i suggest this illiberal democracy
33:36exploitation
33:37by analogy to the movies of the popular
33:401970s exploitation genre
33:43just like black exploitation films
33:46represent their views with a class
33:48b version of the black culture under the
33:51guise of empowering the black community
33:53this regime offer votes offers voters a
33:58class b version of democracy despite
34:02venerating democracy as a concept
34:05by waving power to the people
34:08banners it is one made cheap for easy
34:11profit of the liberal camp
34:13relying on time tired formulas from the
34:17past
34:18despite revolutionary claims as well as
34:21based on
34:22misappropriation and eroding the very
34:26democratic procedures
34:27to which a liberals owe their
34:31own rise to power so they are hijacking
34:35the human rights language and
34:37infrastructure
34:38so they are not ignoring it
34:42but hijacking it and filling it with
34:44their own
34:45content and this is
34:49nowhere more visible but in the case of
34:52the family mainstreaming
34:54family mainstreaming has been introduced
34:57by the hungarian government in 2010.
35:00one could observe a gradual vanishing
35:04of the focus on gender in favor in favor
35:07of the family oriented approach
35:10indicating that family mainstreaming
35:13is seen by a liberals as
35:16an alternative to gender mainstreaming
35:20rather than just an additional tool
35:25and it's also very indicative that when
35:28gender studies
35:30was deleted from the study programs in
35:33hungary
35:35the minister at that time pointed out
35:38that they want to have
35:40family studies programs and also
35:44in russia genders that these programs
35:46had been replaced by
35:48family studies programs um
35:52so this was accompanied by
35:53transformation of the government
35:55apparatus itself
35:56rep responsible for gender equality
35:59into secretariats dealing with family
36:03and demographic issues for instance the
36:07department of equal opportunity
36:09was moved under the auspices of
36:12department of
36:13social and families affairs
36:16and the council of gender equality has
36:18not been
36:19conveyed in from 2010
36:24but the family mainstreaming
36:29is hardly a new concept nor one designed
36:33an
36:33ad hoc to hide government officials
36:36incompetence
36:37in the field of human rights in fact
36:40the concept appeared in the documents
36:44issued by the united nations department
36:47of economic and social affairs
36:49and the european parliament as early in
36:532003
36:55in this context it was viewed as a tool
36:59to identify the impact of policies on
37:02families
37:03and grain family concerns more deeply
37:07in policies and strengthen the function
37:10of the families
37:12at the same time both documents adopted
37:15a broad
37:17functional definition of family instead
37:20of a narrow traditional one
37:23and stress the importance of individual
37:26rights
37:27alongside the family however
37:31in the hand of the liberal actors so it
37:33was already there that's what i want to
37:35argue in
37:36it was already there but in the hand of
37:38the liberal actors
37:40family mainstreaming think about the
37:42polypore which is taking the ideas and
37:44the concept
37:46in the hands of the liberal actors
37:48family mainstreaming
37:51shifted its original meaning and became
37:55an alternative policy model one in which
37:59the family
38:00rather than an individual is the subject
38:04of the rights
38:05and one can see a tool for promoting
38:09fundamentalist values for example
38:13the brussel based federation of catholic
38:16family associations in europe
38:18which has been running a 2014 campaign
38:23vote for family promote family
38:25mainstreaming
38:27in a package with the idea of
38:31complementarity of sexes
38:34rejection of the so-called gender
38:37ideology
38:39protection of life from conception
38:42and parents rights to raise their
38:45children
38:46in their own beliefs far
38:50from being a central european phenomenon
38:53the this example is of course a part of
38:56the broader
38:58transnational campaign based by
39:02the transnational
39:05religious right since the 1990s
39:10the battle for a symbolic
39:14control of the human rights discourse
39:17as argued by lena morgan after initially
39:21rejecting the secular language of human
39:23rights
39:24many catholic organizations have begun
39:28to adopt it to the goals of
39:32anti-modernist politics aiming to use
39:36the united nations framework to lobby
39:40for family rights natural rights
39:44and the rights of the unborn
39:47one especially striking example of this
39:50revoking the human rights framework is
39:53the so-called
39:55pro-life transnational movement which
39:58constructs
39:59embryos and fertilises as moral
40:02and political subjects and then applies
40:06the concept of human rights to the
40:09unborn
40:10to undermine the reproductive rights of
40:13living women
40:14as well as deny full personhood
40:18and citizenship to to the children
40:21born through iff the next one
40:24is building parallel civil society
40:31as argued by experts and academics on
40:34the example of hungary
40:35the goal of illiberal parties in central
40:38europe is
40:39the transformation of the transformation
40:42the reconfiguring of the institutions
40:45and infrastructure of post-1989 liberal
40:48democratic states
40:50in a way that strongly benefits the new
40:53ruling elite and its voters
40:55the key aspect of this correction of the
40:58transformation
41:01is the transfiguration of the previously
41:05existing civil society
41:08replacing of certain ngos which work
41:11within the democratic human rights
41:13paradigm
41:14with pro-government or even
41:17government-organized
41:18so-called gongos which support the
41:21illiberal agenda
41:23this is not to say that difference
41:25between the post-1989 civil society
41:28sector
41:29and one flourishing under illiberal
41:31governments
41:32lies in the complete independence of the
41:35former from the state
41:37in fact dependence on the state funding
41:41has been a structural problem of civil
41:44society in central europe
41:45since the transition and one of the
41:48reasons
41:48it's relative weakness the different
41:51lies rather in the ideological
41:54underpinnings
41:56as well as the level of dependence on
41:59party politics
42:00ideology and funding mal distribution
42:05this newly elevated gongo sphere
42:09seemingly have the same profile and
42:12target groups
42:13as the previous ones namely the secular
42:16human rights these ngos
42:17they operate within a blankly
42:21different framework which is
42:23predominantly
42:24religious and anti-modernist
42:28this replacement is largely achieved
42:31through ideological maldistribution of
42:34european union and state funding as well
42:38as through
42:38direct attacks and securitization
42:42of human rights ngos
42:45so this uh if you are looking at the
42:48different
42:49reports of the hungarian government
42:52mexican government
42:53polish government you see that they are
42:55listing
42:56those organizations who are active
42:59in women's issues but if you are looking
43:03into
43:04what these organizations are doing you
43:06will be
43:07absolutely surprised um
43:11yes um
43:15securitization uh
43:18here is a section which i quit uh which
43:21is about the
43:22uh uh
43:26which i omit because of the uh gender
43:29studies and banning gender studies in
43:30hungary but if you have got questions
43:32you know after the talk you are i'm very
43:34happy to respond securitization
43:37besides cutting funding from independent
43:40ngos and supporting pro-government
43:43organizations
43:44illiberal parties also resort to one
43:47more tactic to undermine civil society
43:52framing it as foreign
43:55enterprise potentially dangerous to the
43:58national interest
44:01in the campaign the so-called
44:04gender ideology an umbrella term
44:08joining such issues as sexual education
44:11gender mainstreaming
44:12gender studies education reproductive
44:15rights
44:16lgbtqi rights as well as uniting
44:19different different
44:20conservative actors such as the church
44:23political parties
44:24and ngos in one quest from the beginning
44:28the campaign
44:29gender was taken out from the normal
44:31political sphere
44:33and pushed into an emergency mode
44:36portrayed as urgent threat to the very
44:40survivor
44:41of this nation from the outset
44:43anti-gender actors
44:45use the figure of the child in danger
44:50to mobilize supporters and accused
44:53gender quote unquote of encouraging
44:56children to masturbate
44:58and to choose their own sex ultimately
45:01leading to
45:02so-called emotional and moral confusion
45:04and
45:05destroying the very foundation of our
45:07civilization
45:09gender experts lgbt activists feminist
45:13academics
45:14in turn have been presented as agents of
45:18this transnational lobby
45:20aiming to impose a new form of
45:23totalitarianism
45:24this public attack were so ambigu
45:28these public attacks were so ambiguous
45:30that gender was chosen
45:32as a word of the year in 2013
45:35by experts in poland and also i have to
45:39say that this securitization
45:41was making
45:45the life of those activists and some of
45:48you are also in the room extremely
45:50difficult because you have to cope we
45:53have to go
45:54with the constant
45:57public harassment in the internet sphere
46:01with comments on twitter
46:03and on facebook and sometimes with
46:05threatening emails
46:07so constructing social activism gender
46:10equality
46:11open society minority right as
46:14cultural and moral existential threat
46:18has serious consequences i would mention
46:21three first it makes it possible for
46:24fundamentalists or radical actors to
46:28mainstream the extreme
46:30and push ruling parties to adopt
46:34radical stances and thus normalize them
46:39and that's the most important one that
46:42it actually pushes the center
46:44to accept and to normalize this language
46:48secondly the discourse of securitization
46:52also legitimizes the use of
46:55extraordinary measures
46:57against the perceived threat either by
47:00the state
47:01or by far-right groups that challenge
47:04the monopoly of the state of violence
47:07and
47:08my phd student veronica jabalska is
47:10working on how the
47:12different paramilitary organizations in
47:15poland
47:15are questioning the um the
47:19new citizenship creating a new concept
47:22the citizenship
47:23the citizen soldier thirdly by
47:26securitization
47:27also means that human rights issues
47:30become
47:31depolitized this is an
47:34argument which is just against the
47:37general argument i argue that the threat
47:40is de-politicizing
47:42presented as an enemy rather than a
47:45political adversary
47:47so it means that when you try to fight
47:49this
47:50you cannot do this with political fights
47:53yeah
47:54so the family mainstreaming policies
47:58uh i already mentioned that
48:03[Music]
48:04and
48:09and then
48:14i would like to very quickly compare the
48:17polish and the hungarian family
48:20policies because on the one hand
48:24if you look at the family policies in
48:28poland
48:28you see that this is given for
48:32everybody according to uh citizenship
48:35rights
48:36but in the hungarian context there are
48:39certain
48:40strings attached to the certain
48:43social welfare provisions given to uh
48:46the
48:48uh to the women who are expected to born
48:53produce children hungary has been famous
48:56for its pro-family stance
48:58and generous family benefits the
49:00fundamental law which substituted the
49:03constitution declared hungary
49:05that hungary shall protect the
49:08institutions
49:09of marriage as the union of man and
49:12woman because the family
49:14is the basis of the nation's survival
49:16and government has been
49:18acting accordingly in its family
49:20policies
49:22the fedex government reintroduced the
49:24three years of paid paternal care
49:27after it had been decreased to two years
49:30by
49:31the socialist liberal government for
49:33budgetary reasons
49:35unlike police polish family benefits
49:38which are universal
49:40hungarian family and social policies
49:43favor the better off generous tax
49:46benefits are inaccessible to the poor
49:49decrees in household energy prices
49:52mostly benefit
49:53those living in bigger apartments and
49:56both
49:56flat tax income and the different
49:59packages
50:00which permits parents to claim child
50:03care benefits by being
50:04employed have also benefited
50:07the middle and upper class moreover
50:10policies are often framed in a way that
50:13assumes
50:14and reaffirms traditional gender roles
50:18as the case of early retirement
50:20provisions
50:21which were granted to women with 30
50:24years of service
50:25saying that now they can be grandmothers
50:28and take care of the
50:29children so this is actually again
50:34arguing that there which i try to argue
50:38in the first part of the
50:40paper and i hope that it came through
50:43namely that there are very legitimate
50:46concerns very legitimate problems
50:50very legitimate issues but the question
50:53is
50:53what kind of
50:56solutions what kind of policy provisions
50:59are being offered
51:01and i was arguing in this paper that
51:05these illiberal polypore states
51:08are not offering solutions
51:12but the illusion of the solutions
51:15using these
51:19six points in order to maintain their
51:23power
51:24right so let me uh
51:27conclude uh according to the growing
51:30literature
51:31discussing illiberal terms in europe
51:34this paper demonstrated
51:36that a liberal police polypore state
51:39is a new form of governance which
51:42largely operates
51:44through the appropriation of concepts
51:47mechanisms so there is nothing new right
51:51and the infrastructure of liberal
51:54democracy so there is no new
51:56infrastructure
51:57but the existing infrastructure was used
52:01it also argued that a gender-sensitive
52:04perspective
52:05is crucial for understanding
52:08illiberalism
52:09because illiberal regimes rise to power
52:14by exploiting the gendered failures
52:19of neo-liberal neopatriarchy
52:22use gender politics as a tool
52:26for creating their ideological and
52:28political basis
52:31and produce serious consequences for
52:34emancipatory politics
52:36why first the illiberal project would
52:40have not been so successful
52:42if not for its acute identification
52:46of the gendered challenges created by
52:50the neoliberal neopatriarchy
52:52represented for example by
52:56sharia sandberg's lean in
53:00and powerful female leaders the
53:02neoliberal model of emancipation
53:05has gained prominence in europe in the
53:08last decade
53:10critical feminists have among others
53:13pointed to the negative effects
53:16of neoliberal feminism market
53:19orientation
53:21over emphasizing the mnc pettery aspect
53:25of paid employment
53:28and ignoring the value of care work
53:33as well as fantasizing the choice
53:36and individualism at the expense of
53:40aiming for structural changes
53:44this tendency has also been absorbed
53:47not to observe that was against easemond
53:49file not absorbed but
53:51observed in the case of european union
53:54policies
53:55which have largely incorporated the
53:58gender perspective as a tool
54:00serving economic goals by increasing
54:05flexibility
54:06and effectiveness rather than a critical
54:10perspective
54:11serving equality per se illiberal
54:15regimes
54:16in turn provide women recognition
54:19for the reproductive and care work
54:22through
54:23familialis discourse as well as through
54:26measures such as the 40 years of service
54:30or the 500 plus in poland
54:33by enhancing the status of care work
54:36and recognizing women's contribution to
54:39the reproduction of the society
54:42illiberal parties thus seize
54:46and appropriate the discursive space
54:51or feminist resistance towards
54:53neoliberalism
54:56so when we are thinking about counter
54:58strategies this
54:59is a very strong statement second
55:03gender politics also plays an important
55:06role in
55:07intra-party struggles as long as
55:10ideas about family as well as women's
55:13and men's role in the society
55:15constitute a common symbolic space
55:18between the mainstream right and far
55:20right parties
55:23endorsing a traditionally gender
55:26rhetoric
55:26will and enable illiberal parties
55:30to keep the far right in power
55:34yet mainstreaming extremists views on
55:37gender and sexuality
55:39also means that they equally become
55:41normalized
55:42shifting the political center to the
55:45right
55:47third gender plays an important
55:50symbolic role as the key tenant
55:53of the illiberal counter-hegemonic
55:56narratives
55:57as mentioned before illiberalism is an
56:01openly ideological answer
56:04to the technocratic there is no
56:07alternative approach of mainstream
56:09parties
56:10it is an anti-modernist response
56:13to the modernist and neoliberal model of
56:17society
56:18as such this counter-narrative
56:21is deeply gendered it is centered around
56:24the concept of the traditional family
56:26and fueled by the rejection or
56:30redefinition of key concepts
56:33tools and postulates of emancipatory
56:37politics
56:38such as universal human rights paradigm
56:42gender mainstreaming gender studies
56:45equality education minority rights
56:49in fact illiberalism uses
56:52gender as symbolic glue
56:55which combines all these issues together
56:59under the banner of the enemy figure
57:02they call it
57:02the culture of death or the so-called
57:05gender ideology
57:06and connects various actors gender
57:10therefore becomes
57:11an inclusive discourse for the rejection
57:14of the current societal order
57:17a key rhetorical tool for defining
57:20political antagonism by now conservative
57:24actors
57:25struggling for cultural hegemony
57:28i argue that this is a new situation
57:31this is not a backlash
57:32this is not political conservatism
57:34revived
57:36the anti-gender movement is not merely
57:38another offshoot of
57:40centuries-old anti-feminism but an
57:42attack on liberalism
57:45therefore indirectly democracy
57:48as liberalism and democracy are
57:50intertwined since the enlightenment
57:53but when a politician claims that
57:55women's sole purpose is child bearing
57:58or when a pop celebrity discusses the
58:00so-called
58:01female principle these are not simply
58:04conservative responses
58:06to the success of the 1968 movement
58:10the anti-gender movement is a
58:12fundamentally new phenomenon
58:15that was launched for the sake of
58:19establishing a new world order it is a
58:22fight for a socialization
58:24in the gramscian sense the anti-gender
58:27movement
58:28is a nationalist now conservative
58:31response
58:32to the crisis of the global narrable
58:34world order
58:36therefore it should interest everyone
58:40who is committed to human rights and
58:42democracy
58:43and not only us researchers of gender
58:47thank you very much
58:53[Applause]
58:55so if you are interested uh i mean this
58:58talk was based partly on this
59:02huffington post article and we wrote it
59:05with veronica chabaska
59:07and as a strategy how to fight because
59:10that was also mentioned by henning that
59:11we should think about how to fight
59:13i mean there is a peer-reviewed article
59:15in an impact factor
59:17journal read by 235 people i checked it
59:20recently
59:21and this was uh read by more than 300
59:24000 people this is the same and
59:28gender is symbolic glue this is the
59:30article we wrote with esther kovac and
59:32veronica
59:33where we are arguing for gender using
59:35gender in the analysis of illiberalism
59:38and you can also download it and i just
59:41would like to suggest to follow this
59:44political critique which is a
59:45warso-based
59:47critical journal about the region i know
59:50the best which is eastern europe
59:52thank you
1:00:03thank you very much for the very
1:00:06comprehensive and also inspiring
1:00:08talk also with new perspectives
1:00:12especially the question of whether it is
1:00:15a backlash or a completely new
1:00:17phenomenon
1:00:18and this of course leads also to new
1:00:20questions concerning counter strategies
1:00:23well now we have the opportunity to ask
1:00:27questions maybe
1:00:28first of all
1:00:33concerning the different parts that were
1:00:36offered
1:00:36in the talk or maybe you need some more
1:00:39explanation
1:00:40we have a microphone in the room
1:00:44and particularly for the translators
1:00:45it's very important and also for the
1:00:47live stream
1:00:51[Music]
1:00:54thank you very much andrea
1:01:00it's very important for you to say that
1:01:04this fungus this
1:01:07polypore which creates a new
1:01:10kind of state is a new phenomenon and
1:01:13not a backlash but i would like to know
1:01:16and from you as a historian well it
1:01:19might well be that the actors themselves
1:01:22do not want to go back to fascism the
1:01:25way we know it
1:01:26but they want to appropriate
1:01:29present day things but from as from a
1:01:32historic perspective isn't it
1:01:33a step back towards fascism because what
1:01:37you mentioned there the six different
1:01:39bullet points that you've shown
1:01:41us well these are all motives that we
1:01:44know from national socialism or from
1:01:46fascism so
1:01:47why is it so important for you to
1:01:50differentiate
1:01:55thank you thank you for the question i'm
1:01:56sorry i'm responding in
1:01:58english at the moment yeah that's fine
1:02:00yeah that's fine
1:02:01uh thank you uh so why do i think it's
1:02:05uh
1:02:06it's uh something new and that goes back
1:02:09to the question of strategies and how to
1:02:12fight against
1:02:13it and historical analogies can be
1:02:16very very misleading if we think that
1:02:19this is the same
1:02:21these are the same characteristics these
1:02:24are the same
1:02:26uh this is the same system then we won't
1:02:29understand that this is something new
1:02:32and how to fight against it so billy
1:02:34it gives a kind of uh
1:02:37false security and
1:02:40i argue a false hopelessness
1:02:44right so i would suggest rather
1:02:48to understand the root causes
1:02:51of this situation and in the first part
1:02:53of the talk i
1:02:54try to argue that
1:02:58neither we have the tools nor
1:03:02sometimes the conceptual framework
1:03:06to understand this very new particular
1:03:09phenomenon
1:03:10because we are basically using the same
1:03:15language the same concepts the same
1:03:17vocabulary
1:03:18and that's why we came up with this
1:03:21polyportis
1:03:22pills right because if you look at this
1:03:26whole
1:03:27system as a facade as a mushroom
1:03:30then it's it's easier to think about
1:03:34alternative strategies and you see
1:03:36yourself differently
1:03:38and you see what what do you what can
1:03:41you do in this
1:03:42particular context while i was arguing
1:03:46in this paper
1:03:47that it's horribly difficult because the
1:03:51institutions the resources
1:03:54the age and the issues had been
1:03:57appropriated and stolen so what to do
1:04:02so my first argument would be to
1:04:06first be honestly self-critically
1:04:09examined where are we now why
1:04:14and what can we do differently
1:04:17and this kind of difference what what
1:04:20can be done differently
1:04:22is thinking about new alliances
1:04:26a new language and the new discussion
1:04:30about those topics which really matter
1:04:37thank you very much are there any
1:04:39further questions they're in the back
1:04:41there's a question
1:04:49well i think i understand your approach
1:04:51when it comes
1:04:52to analyzing eastern european countries
1:04:56and to have a broader perspective
1:04:58but right now i'm writing my master
1:05:00thesis on
1:05:05abortion the abortion legislation in
1:05:07poland and if you take a look at the
1:05:09augmentation
1:05:10in particular when it comes to family
1:05:11mainstreaming this is real
1:05:13a real backlash and they
1:05:16serve narratives that have been in the
1:05:19polish collective
1:05:20memory for 200 years so this is why i
1:05:23think it's a little bit
1:05:24difficult to say that it's not a
1:05:26backlash because the reality
1:05:28in particular for for women in their
1:05:31lives
1:05:33has deteriorated considerably
1:05:37very good point however i was arguing
1:05:41that this is a european phenomenon
1:05:44but your point about poland is a very
1:05:46important point
1:05:48because if you look at uh
1:05:51the discussion and discourse about
1:05:53family in
1:05:54poland in the past 300 years you can say
1:05:58that
1:05:58yes it was there and it was really
1:06:01connected
1:06:02with the preservation of the nation
1:06:06and at the same time empowered women
1:06:10in a certain context however
1:06:14if you look at how the family
1:06:15mainstreaming and the concept of family
1:06:19was introduced by the european union and
1:06:22the
1:06:23different uh transnational organizations
1:06:27you see that this previous tradition
1:06:30which was there was totally ignored
1:06:33and this was like parachuted
1:06:37into this uh polish context and
1:06:41some of the problems which are there now
1:06:43in poland but you know it much better
1:06:44than i do
1:06:46are partly coming from this
1:06:48contradiction
1:06:49and let me give you an ex other example
1:06:52which might be useful for your future
1:06:55work if you look at the
1:06:57history of feminism in russia in the
1:07:00soviet union
1:07:01in the 1970s there was a very
1:07:04interesting
1:07:05small intellectual movement about the
1:07:07mother russia
1:07:09and trying to fight
1:07:12against this oppressive uh emancipatory
1:07:16politics
1:07:17from a spiritual uh
1:07:20perspective which was at the same time
1:07:23empowering women
1:07:24as agents of political action this was a
1:07:27very
1:07:28interesting movement and
1:07:31one of my former students wrote an amaze
1:07:33thesis on this
1:07:34back in the 1990s uh
1:07:37but this movement for example doesn't
1:07:40fit
1:07:41into our grid of understanding women's
1:07:44activism
1:07:46because on the one hand it was very
1:07:47orthodox i mean
1:07:49religious orthodox on the other hand
1:07:51very anti-communist
1:07:54very pro-women but not
1:07:57based on the secular human rights-based
1:08:01framework and
1:08:05and the way how the post-1990
1:08:10russian activism was not relating to
1:08:13this movement
1:08:14i think this is very indicative because
1:08:17it shows that there was a part of the
1:08:19tradition
1:08:20which was not included which was
1:08:22difficult to relate to
1:08:24which was difficult to to digest or to
1:08:28critically reflect on and this is part
1:08:31of the problem and there are so many
1:08:33interesting parts in the history which
1:08:36are which
1:08:37remain uh unreflected or critically
1:08:40examined by the present
1:08:42progressive actors thinking about what
1:08:44can we learn from the past
1:08:46what what kind of failures were there
1:08:49what kind of
1:08:50promises were there what kind of
1:08:51alliances were there
1:08:53what kind of language was there because
1:08:55if you read those
1:08:56tags which were published in some is
1:08:59that by those women
1:09:00this is the language which is now
1:09:02appropriated by the government and the
1:09:04government funded
1:09:06organizations so what went wrong what
1:09:08did we miss
1:09:09so what are the points that where this
1:09:12whole thing went wrong
1:09:13so i think your point is very important
1:09:15and it actually
1:09:16you know shows the direction of future
1:09:19research
1:09:19thank you
1:09:33well i would like to refer to the title
1:09:37anti-gender
1:09:38movement in eastern europe you said that
1:09:40you're an expert on eastern europe
1:09:42so how do the the anti-gen
1:09:46movement structures look like in eastern
1:09:48europe do they
1:09:49support each other
1:09:52or how can we counter it and how does
1:09:54the gender movement look like on the
1:09:56other hand
1:09:57so how do the two different structures
1:10:00look like in eastern europe title of the
1:10:02talk was europe
1:10:03because i consciously wanted to point
1:10:06out that this is a
1:10:07transnational movement it has got
1:10:10nothing to do with the national context
1:10:13however the problems are rising
1:10:16from the national context but the
1:10:19responses are coming from
1:10:21a transnational movement let me give you
1:10:24an example
1:10:25so if you see on facebook in your bubble
1:10:29you know somebody in estonia holding a
1:10:32you know paper saying i'm a not a
1:10:35feminist because i love
1:10:38men or love my family then in two weeks
1:10:41it's there in
1:10:42in polish in spanish in whatever so we
1:10:45are talking about
1:10:46a transnational movement uh
1:10:49and um the word congress of families
1:10:53is one of the major actors in this
1:10:56context which had a
1:10:58conference in hungary two years ago
1:11:02the title of the conference was
1:11:06make families great again and i spent
1:11:09three days participating at this
1:11:12conference and
1:11:13if any of the organizers watching this
1:11:16live stream i'm very grateful that they
1:11:18actually
1:11:19accepted me and i was participating this
1:11:22event and i learned a lot because there
1:11:25you see
1:11:26how this
1:11:29ngo sphere is
1:11:34interacting with each other how the
1:11:36different tools
1:11:38were exchanged how personal
1:11:41uh connections are being made and this
1:11:43is basically
1:11:44an ngo sphere but this is not an ngo
1:11:48right because this art what i would call
1:11:50an unholy civil society
1:11:52but then if i say this on the holy
1:11:55civilian society
1:11:56then we are again in this gramscian
1:11:59fight for you know what is good and what
1:12:02is bad
1:12:03right and my whole point in this talk
1:12:06was
1:12:07that we are not moving forward
1:12:11if we are questioning the beliefs and
1:12:14feelings of people
1:12:16that they should not be feeling the way
1:12:18how they think they are feeling
1:12:21but we should look at the root causes
1:12:23what are those
1:12:25social cultural economic
1:12:28tendencies which are actually
1:12:30constructing those feelings
1:12:32so so my answer for your question is
1:12:37the anti-gender movement in eastern
1:12:39europe is not different
1:12:41than in spain or portugal or in sweden
1:12:44uh but as far as the counter reaction is
1:12:48concerned
1:12:49i have to say that it's not different
1:12:52either
1:12:52and we i mean i would say we we
1:12:56are not able to find
1:12:59uh the philosopher's stone because
1:13:01probably there is not one
1:13:03but there are several uh we have we
1:13:06are not um in a position to spare
1:13:10the discussion the debates the
1:13:12engagements about
1:13:13major issues and i made this point in
1:13:16the talk that feminist activism
1:13:20is actually losing space losing ground
1:13:24losing agenda and losing topics
1:13:27because of the polypore taking those
1:13:30topics
1:13:32and agendas and institutions from the
1:13:35u.n
1:13:36to till uh ngo activism and
1:13:39we need to think about this creatively
1:13:42and uh um
1:13:47and there are lots of interesting
1:13:48positive examples so
1:13:50if i want to i know i if i want to cut
1:13:52it short what i would say is that
1:13:55instead of suffering being depressed
1:13:58um being oppressed
1:14:01we should think about positive stories
1:14:04good stories
1:14:05which are attractive stories which are
1:14:08emotional stories which are
1:14:10re-enchanting stories so not the stories
1:14:12of suffering
1:14:13but the stories of positive
1:14:17stories with positive identifications
1:14:19and i have got several examples but i
1:14:21just i saw some questions as well so
1:14:26yeah well maybe
1:14:29uh to complement that briefly the world
1:14:31congress of families
1:14:32will have a meeting in march in italy
1:14:35and the italian government
1:14:37is the co-organizer and supports it
1:14:40extensively um those who want to learn
1:14:43more about it we are preparing an online
1:14:46dossier it will
1:14:47be published uh soon where we will also
1:14:50talk about the world congress and
1:14:52families but also the european data
1:14:53parliamentarian forum
1:14:57where we describe the agenda europe
1:15:00as it's called and what kind of
1:15:02different
1:15:03groups organizations interact with each
1:15:06other at the trench
1:15:07national level and try to dominate the
1:15:10discourse
1:15:11this just as a briefly advertisement of
1:15:14the next
1:15:16products online well thank you very much
1:15:21i found it very powerful and very
1:15:23impressive what you said
1:15:25i was firmly convinced and also thank
1:15:28you
1:15:29for bridging the
1:15:33motto i mean it's it's not an outdated
1:15:35motto
1:15:36it's it's very important so make
1:15:38families great
1:15:39again this connection this trans
1:15:42national connection to what we see in
1:15:45the united states
1:15:46and there we see this um
1:15:49backlash this is i think also the reason
1:15:53why
1:15:53we hear um time and again here talk of a
1:15:56backlash
1:15:57but it's nice that you
1:16:04referred to this new world order
1:16:07um and i'm wondering in how far
1:16:12do we have to think this together
1:16:16also keep in mind this trans national
1:16:18development and also this nationalist
1:16:20development and also the
1:16:22the threat that we see by
1:16:25white male dominance and also in this
1:16:29field of tension um you said that
1:16:31feminists are losing ground i would
1:16:34agree to that fully and i think they
1:16:36also lose space
1:16:38where they do not separate from
1:16:41uh white male dominance and
1:16:45on the one hand we have this
1:16:46transnational aspect and i fully agree
1:16:49to what you said but what it
1:16:50is what is suggested in europe is the
1:16:52regional the
1:16:53national uh level and um
1:16:58really or we tend to say that nobody has
1:17:02such a great transnational network as
1:17:04the right-wing nationals
1:17:09don't or shouldn't we
1:17:12try to focus on how we call it
1:17:16and
1:17:17[Music]
1:17:27in order to distinguish ourselves
1:17:31from it and have a more strong focus
1:17:35on intersectionality
1:17:38this
1:17:41illiberal polypore state
1:17:44is offering a viable livable
1:17:48desirable alternative
1:17:51and this is the first time after 45
1:17:55and this is actually happening that this
1:17:57livable desirable
1:18:01and
1:18:04alternative is uh
1:18:08is giving is is constructed through the
1:18:12key concepts and that's what i was
1:18:14arguing in the paper
1:18:16that it is constructed around gender and
1:18:20most of the issues which are emerging
1:18:22they are
1:18:23transnational they are not local
1:18:25problems
1:18:26the care work or the equality they are
1:18:29not
1:18:31national problems they are transnational
1:18:33problems
1:18:34and they are giving the response through
1:18:38their exclusionist
1:18:41securitized language so
1:18:45in that in that context what i believe
1:18:47is that
1:18:49this feminist activism should fight
1:18:52against
1:18:53this kind of
1:18:56[Music]
1:18:59exclusionary hate-based discussion
1:19:02only to again going back to the roots of
1:19:06the feminist movement of the 19th and
1:19:0818th century
1:19:09when it was transnational when it was
1:19:12inclusive
1:19:13and it was also using a language which
1:19:16was
1:19:16somehow attracted a vital support
1:19:20not it was not an elite project it was
1:19:23the feminism was not an elite project
1:19:25from the beginning so
1:19:26my suggestion would be to go back to
1:19:28this you don't agree
1:19:33no yeah
1:19:38no i'm i was just shaking my head
1:19:42um because it was not an elitist maybe
1:19:44not but it was
1:19:45also um it was always struggling to
1:19:49become a white movement
1:19:50so it was like to say that it's um like
1:19:53if we go
1:19:54for for the women's vote yeah we have
1:19:56many
1:19:57many um arguments that white women
1:20:00should vote
1:20:01non-white women are not supposed to vote
1:20:03in this struggle for the female vote
1:20:06so um if we go back into the history so
1:20:09to i was shaking my head when you said
1:20:12when you said that back in the days it
1:20:13was inclusive
1:20:14that's why i think was it maybe not
1:20:17enough
1:20:19yeah i understand but let me that but if
1:20:22you look at the
1:20:23uh the issues of uh uh
1:20:26of the language you are talking about
1:20:28the language of rights
1:20:30but if you look at the the orig some uh
1:20:33the origins of feminism was also
1:20:36connected
1:20:37to the religious framework and the issue
1:20:41of dignity
1:20:42and this concept of dignity and the
1:20:46issue of
1:20:47spirituality i mean these are those
1:20:50concepts which were lost when feminism
1:20:53moved
1:20:54to the language of rights don't
1:20:56misunderstand me
1:20:58i don't want to throw out the language
1:21:00of rights
1:21:01to the window but what i would like to
1:21:03argue is that
1:21:05it would be nice to think about uh the
1:21:08spiritual dimensions and also about the
1:21:11empowerment from a different perspective
1:21:14so
1:21:18think let me give you an example next
1:21:21year i will be teaching a course on the
1:21:24politics of happiness
1:21:26because you know happiness is something
1:21:29we are
1:21:30somehow forgetting and i'm not i mean
1:21:33looking at the different indexes of
1:21:35happiness is just the starting point
1:21:37but i'm thinking about inspiring text
1:21:41inspiring people
1:21:44inspiring discussions about the body the
1:21:46body movements
1:21:47so these are those issues which might be
1:21:50interesting
1:21:50and empowering for the future and i'm
1:21:54not saying that
1:21:56we should get rid of everything which
1:21:58have been achieved but i'm thinking
1:22:00about
1:22:01we need to look for alternative
1:22:04tools in order to make this system
1:22:08sustainable and to and and and to save
1:22:12it
1:22:12i don't want to be dramatic but to save
1:22:14it
1:22:20we have just three comments left so we
1:22:23are really close to the official end of
1:22:26the event
1:22:26so we should close just uh briefly
1:22:30um i had the feeling of that that you're
1:22:33going back to a certain kind of
1:22:35feminism and um i don't uh
1:22:38disagree with you however i see um that
1:22:41exactly in this time we
1:22:45missed an opportunity of inclusiveness
1:22:47we missed an opportunity
1:22:49of something what we now would call
1:22:51intersectional approach
1:22:53of that we of that feminism
1:22:56and what i see today is somewhere the
1:23:00same
1:23:01or not the same that's uh but something
1:23:04which
1:23:04could lead us to a similar
1:23:08uh diversion um for example if we go in
1:23:12the u.s
1:23:13and and see their this movement of trust
1:23:16black women
1:23:18that is something which offered uh in
1:23:21a very powerful way in the last two
1:23:23years of in resistance
1:23:25which we didn't see with the 54 of white
1:23:28women
1:23:29still voting for for that what uh this
1:23:32this presidency is standing for
1:23:34so we are now taking over in the sense
1:23:37of good practice
1:23:38but forget where it comes from and it's
1:23:41not just
1:23:42that we need to remind us of that but we
1:23:45forget also to include
1:23:47exactly these people here in
1:23:51in europe so that's why the the urgency
1:23:54for an
1:23:55intersectionality within our movements
1:23:58our feminist movement and i would argue
1:24:00we see losing the crowns exactly there
1:24:03where we are not
1:24:04thinking uh inclusively and if you are
1:24:07offering a course on
1:24:09happiness there is a very good colleague
1:24:11of mine in the us
1:24:12uh who just published a book on on um
1:24:15uh the pursuit of happiness and with the
1:24:18emphasis
1:24:19on black women not being included
1:24:22in this actually which is of course in
1:24:24the constitution also
1:24:26uh um uh inclined in in in the us
1:24:29so um again my urgency on
1:24:32my question to you where do you see the
1:24:35inclusiveness
1:24:36of the movement when it will lay back
1:24:39or you know um tap into the history of
1:24:43itself
1:24:44thank you how do i see the inclusiveness
1:24:50of the movement
1:24:52let me give you a a concrete example
1:24:57there has been a very interesting study
1:24:59done by esther kovach
1:25:02and aniko gregor on the women's issues
1:25:05in hungary because who am i to tell you
1:25:08that what are the women's issues
1:25:10and they were doing uh surveys
1:25:13and uh interviews with different groups
1:25:17of women
1:25:18uh in different parts of the country uh
1:25:20they
1:25:21published the results also in english so
1:25:24you can
1:25:25have a look it's called women's issues
1:25:28in english i think
1:25:30and the results are that
1:25:34the issues these women
1:25:37from different background
1:25:41different geographical locations
1:25:43different educational background
1:25:46what they found the most important is
1:25:48the issue of care
1:25:50because they are because of the collapse
1:25:53of the
1:25:54welfare system and the institutional
1:25:57system they remained responsible for the
1:26:00children
1:26:01for the elderly parents and they
1:26:04are struggling with the economic
1:26:07problems that
1:26:08you know the country is getting poorer
1:26:10and poorer plus
1:26:12the care crisis so the language
1:26:15what they were using when they were
1:26:17expressing and
1:26:19they were very happy to talk about their
1:26:22issues
1:26:23this was very much a class based
1:26:26language
1:26:28poverty exploitation they were using the
1:26:31term exploitation
1:26:33poverty helplessness
1:26:37they can only ask for help from the
1:26:39female family members who are also
1:26:42totally you know exploited and they were
1:26:45they never thought about asking help
1:26:48from the state and they never used
1:26:51neither the term intersectionality nor
1:26:55any other language which is coming from
1:26:58the past
1:26:59you know decades from this human rights
1:27:01discourse
1:27:02so here we see a mismatch
1:27:05the mismatch of the transnational
1:27:08women's movement
1:27:09and the experience of women on the
1:27:12ground
1:27:13and this this mismatch
1:27:17is basically used by the far right and
1:27:20the
1:27:20liberal estate to offer
1:27:25dignity to offer
1:27:28money to offer um
1:27:33acknowledgement of those women who
1:27:37don't really find anything interesting
1:27:40or relevant in the offer what the
1:27:43transnational human rights language is
1:27:45offering to them
1:27:47and i'm not saying it's bad or good i'm
1:27:49just saying that
1:27:50this is what is happening on the ground
1:27:53so the question is
1:27:54for those who are coming from these
1:27:57secular human rights-based languages
1:28:00to understand why this offer is not
1:28:02working
1:28:03and make it work in order to attract
1:28:07and to get back the support and the
1:28:10interest
1:28:11and the and to de-politicize those women
1:28:14who basically say
1:28:15you know i'm mostly interested in my
1:28:18family and whoever
1:28:19helps me and gives me any kind of
1:28:21dignity and erases my
1:28:23fear from the future i will vote for
1:28:27that person
1:28:28so i understand that intersectionality
1:28:30is a buzzword
1:28:31you have to you know bring in
1:28:33intersectionality all the time
1:28:35uh i unders i use intersectionality as a
1:28:38method
1:28:39to figure out where are the blind spots
1:28:43what is what i don't see not as
1:28:46something as a normative requirement
1:28:59i still have my difficulties with the
1:29:02police
1:29:02for the polipore i'm asking about the
1:29:06theoretical concept
1:29:10because i do think that um everything uh
1:29:14every single political movement that is
1:29:16successful
1:29:17has um to take up attractive
1:29:21aspects that are already here because
1:29:23other than that a
1:29:25policy of hegemony does not work and
1:29:28this is something we know
1:29:30at the latest sir kafki
1:29:34and then it would be about
1:29:38time what could be new connections
1:29:41i do agree with what you said
1:29:45the word backlash does not help us any
1:29:47um
1:29:48well okay yeah we're against having this
1:29:51backlash so what else can we do this is
1:29:53what the neo liberalists are doing they
1:29:56want to reinvent everything so this
1:29:58is a criticism that does not lead us
1:30:00anywhere but i did not really
1:30:02fully understand your proposal
1:30:06i do agree that we have to take a close
1:30:08look at
1:30:09what can be combined with what but
1:30:13i do have the impression that the
1:30:16familiarism
1:30:17can be a bit
1:30:21more founded as compared to earlier and
1:30:24i think the most convincing
1:30:25argument is that the family is
1:30:28curtailing the individual but then we do
1:30:31have
1:30:32a difficulty to find the right policy
1:30:35answer
1:30:37and what i did like to hear
1:30:42that the faces or the
1:30:46national socialist family policy was
1:30:49working on
1:30:50the valorization of the family it did
1:30:53give the family
1:30:55a value and the family work every
1:30:58single woman is doing so um
1:31:01this is full of friction for me so i
1:31:03would like to hear
1:31:04what you think about that last question
1:31:09we should take up the last question and
1:31:10then we can
1:31:12have your concluding remark
1:31:16i i didn't know i would be the last one
1:31:18to ask you i'm sorry
1:31:20jason you're a professor at the ceo as
1:31:22you said
1:31:26i would like to shift the focus on
1:31:28something totally else and ask you
1:31:29something totally different
1:31:31we don't only have a debate here in
1:31:34germany but throughout my studies and
1:31:36in my work as a psychologist in berlin
1:31:39we are usually talking about
1:31:43generals and women's roles and we're
1:31:45talking about equality because
1:31:47only when we presume an equality we can
1:31:51talk about equal rights
1:31:53so we're not able to compare
1:31:57apples and oranges but when it comes to
1:32:00the education issue we have a
1:32:03million theory we are not born
1:32:07as girls but we are made girls and now i
1:32:09would like to undertake this huge slap
1:32:12leap and ask you about the situation and
1:32:14hungry about
1:32:15in your neural psychological studies
1:32:19why is that so because uh 400 years ago
1:32:23back then we had a very serious
1:32:25discourse
1:32:26over the doctor movies he published a
1:32:29book
1:32:30about the physiological nonsense
1:32:34of the woman and then later on
1:32:38we took a closer look at the woman's
1:32:41brain
1:32:42then women usually have less muscle
1:32:45therefore women cannot be compared to
1:32:48men
1:32:48as far as physical work is concerned and
1:32:53usually um this was taken up
1:32:56in the political discourse that women
1:32:59are different than men and then
1:33:01basically they cannot be treated equally
1:33:04is there anything
1:33:05in hungary on the ceu
1:33:08that is scientifically based
1:33:12in order to deduce one or the other
1:33:14outcome
1:33:17for the questions i understand that the
1:33:21mushroom is
1:33:23um uh questionable
1:33:26uh there are several very legitimate
1:33:29criticism towards the mushroom
1:33:31one is that it's too biological
1:33:34right the second is that i'm happy that
1:33:37uh you know there are not
1:33:39too many trotskyist in the room that
1:33:41every state
1:33:42is a mushroom right so uh
1:33:46that basically the state
1:33:50is something which is you know a
1:33:52mushroom on the
1:33:54on the on the tree and who is the tree
1:33:56right so that's uh
1:33:57that's um that might be the question so
1:34:00uh
1:34:01i understand that but i was arguing that
1:34:05this is new
1:34:06it's new because it's um
1:34:11it appropriates uses
1:34:14the previously existing institutions
1:34:18values ideas and presents it as
1:34:21something new
1:34:23and it also creates this facade
1:34:26that this is new and at the same time it
1:34:29uses
1:34:30the capitalist neoliberal
1:34:36methods policies in order to keep
1:34:39the power so and
1:34:42the difference between poland and
1:34:44hungary is
1:34:46that in poland as i pointed out in the
1:34:48case of the
1:34:49family policies uh then every person
1:34:52counts
1:34:53in the hungarian context this is not the
1:34:55case so
1:34:57if you look at and that's why i'm very
1:35:00cautious
1:35:01using any kind of historical analogies
1:35:04because this
1:35:04system is not one system but several
1:35:08systems like there are
1:35:09the the mushroom has got you know
1:35:11different uh
1:35:13heads but this is the same
1:35:16modus operandi so i basically argued for
1:35:20the modus operandi
1:35:21and it is gendered modus operandi and we
1:35:24have to understand this modus operandi
1:35:28in order to fight against the system and
1:35:30if we are labeling it as
1:35:32nazi or fascist or whatever i'm not sure
1:35:35that it will bring us closer
1:35:39to understand it yeah thank you
1:35:42and as what
1:35:49it means
1:36:05we have a number of fantastic german
1:36:06ladies in the room but i'm instructor
1:36:08for a young group of us students who
1:36:11travel thousands of kilometers
1:36:13uh to be here with you tonight would you
1:36:16give the chance
1:36:17uh to one young gentleman to ask a
1:36:19question as
1:36:20like kind of closing this event
1:36:25if he or she has got a meaningful
1:36:27question yes he's been trying
1:36:29oh sorry yeah yeah okay yeah
1:36:32sorry uh uh as far as the return of the
1:36:35biology
1:36:36is concerned this is
1:36:40a symptom and it's also a strategy
1:36:44you see that now the gene has been
1:36:48discovered as the solution for
1:36:49everything the gene for divorce
1:36:52the gene for good academic performance
1:36:55i would like to suggest to take one step
1:36:59back
1:37:00and look at the return of biology as a
1:37:04form of
1:37:04governance and there's a form of
1:37:07controlling certain bodies
1:37:09and this uh discussion about
1:37:12what is a woman what is a female body
1:37:15this is a part of the
1:37:17control how of different bodies which
1:37:21are
1:37:21uh present uh in the society
1:37:24and the
1:37:27the reaction of the neoliberal
1:37:31cult of the beauty is that
1:37:34now the mother and the mother's body
1:37:37is being celebrated and on the one hand
1:37:41this is excellent because that is
1:37:43against the
1:37:45uh accepted you know anorexic
1:37:49beauty model on the other hand i
1:37:52understand that there are some who
1:37:54actually fear
1:37:56from this cult of the motherhood and the
1:37:58mother's body
1:37:59as a as a as a normative
1:38:02normative body so at the moment that uh
1:38:05politicians start talking about bodies
1:38:07and female bodies
1:38:09you have to be extremely cautious and
1:38:11suspicious what
1:38:12is the agenda there what kind of
1:38:15normative
1:38:16ideas are coming in and what kind of
1:38:20understanding is happening there and
1:38:21again hungary is not different than any
1:38:23other country
1:38:25and this is coming uh
1:38:28back uh the discussion about normative
1:38:32uh body pictures and the normative uh
1:38:35discussion about women
1:38:37now let's hear the question and this
1:38:39gentleman thank you very much
1:38:41first of all thank you for an amazing
1:38:42presentation it was really interesting
1:38:44put and i really enjoyed the analogy
1:38:46that you posed
1:38:47with the mushroom however my uh question
1:38:50is more
1:38:51geared toward the generational
1:38:52differences because from most of the
1:38:54speakers have been
1:38:55from uh older generation than my own
1:38:58uh so i'm really interested on your
1:39:00thoughts on how the generational
1:39:02difference is gonna
1:39:03uh play a part as well as how social
1:39:05media and the internet
1:39:06uh plays a role in expanding these ideas
1:39:10as well as creating a new space to
1:39:12talk about uh ways of empowerment
1:39:15thank you these are big questions you
1:39:17know thank you
1:39:18um what shall i say
1:39:23generational difference um
1:39:26what i see is that this new generation
1:39:29of women who are
1:39:31starting
1:39:34now let me let me rephrase it i see
1:39:37my students at the gender studies
1:39:40department at ceu
1:39:41having very different concerns and very
1:39:44different
1:39:44uh background because they they no
1:39:48matter they are excellent
1:39:49as far as academic achievements are
1:39:51concerned they will
1:39:53be very possibly in the best case
1:39:55employed in precarious academic jobs
1:39:58so i see very strongly the return of the
1:40:00class
1:40:01and the class differences in the
1:40:03discussion
1:40:04and i personally translate
1:40:08it as that i have to check my privilege
1:40:11as
1:40:11a tenured professor and do a lot
1:40:15and as much as i can to create
1:40:18possibilities for the
1:40:20others and to cooperate with youngsters
1:40:23and to
1:40:25somehow do those things what tenured
1:40:29academics usually not doing like giving
1:40:31like this talk so
1:40:32so things which are which i think makes
1:40:35the difference
1:40:36and the generational difference is again
1:40:40something which is a construction i'm
1:40:42sorry to say
1:40:43in a sense that you know there i would
1:40:46rather
1:40:47focus on the similarities and issues
1:40:49which actually connect us
1:40:51instead of focusing on issues which
1:40:53divide us
1:40:54so there are issues which divide us that
1:40:56i
1:40:58am older i've worked more i have got
1:41:02more experience more network more
1:41:05possibilities so
1:41:06i should use that for the uh
1:41:10those who don't have it uh which on the
1:41:12one hand extr
1:41:14external extremely maternalistic in a
1:41:16sense that i'm sharing
1:41:18but i mean i also think about feminist
1:41:22pedagogy as a
1:41:23space where you can discuss and
1:41:26create alternative spaces for knowledge
1:41:29production so that's
1:41:30you know that's what i can say about
1:41:32gender difference and
1:41:34i know that when i started to teach
1:41:37uh in the early 1990s the
1:41:41difference in digital literacy was not
1:41:44as obvious as now because my students
1:41:47are
1:41:48far ahead of me as far as digital issues
1:41:51are concerned
1:41:53but sometimes i systematically convince
1:41:57them that the
1:41:58face-to-face discussion is really not
1:42:00replacing what you post on facebook
1:42:03and uh trying to go back to this
1:42:06uh very personalized discussion instead
1:42:09of
1:42:09sending an email just i send an email
1:42:12please come and see me so
1:42:14digital uh the digital space is
1:42:18as you know much better than i do is not
1:42:20an innocent space
1:42:22it is on the one hand opens up space but
1:42:24at the same time closes you
1:42:26and especially with digital activism
1:42:30it's very much
1:42:33hiding for example the fact that digital
1:42:36activism is also based on resources
1:42:39and it also somehow mirrors the already
1:42:43existing class and other differences so
1:42:46i just can suggest you to think about
1:42:51these divides as something which is
1:42:54connecting us instead of dividing us
1:42:58thank you yes
1:43:04thank you very much
1:43:11and also thanks to you for your
1:43:13questions
1:43:14and uh your input your
1:43:17differing views i will take home a lot
1:43:21a lot food for thought when it comes to
1:43:23old certainties that are
1:43:25questioned once again thanks for
1:43:29staying with us i hope next time i'll
1:43:32see you again have a nice evening

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