Are delivery robots more of a help or hazard? | BBC News — Transcript

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1. 0:00Stop it, please. I'm at work and I don't
2. 0:02want to be late.
3. 0:03>> I find them quite menacing.
4. 0:05There's already a lot going on. You The
5. 0:07last thing you need is like a robot
6. 0:08zooming towards you quite fast.
7. 0:10>> They're just quite handy, aren't they?
8. 0:11It's quite a new little thing, a niche
9. 0:13thing for Leeds to have.
10. 0:15>> I don't like speaking to people. So,
11. 0:17it's a good way to not have to speak to
12. 0:18anyone.
13. 0:21>> [music]
14. 0:25>> Nimble,
15. 0:26compact,
16. 0:28>> [music]
17. 0:28>> and relatively obedient. Although not
18. 0:31always on their best behavior.
19. 0:35Delivery robots like these have become
20. 0:37increasingly common on UK streets over
21. 0:39the past decade. From Leeds to Milton
22. 0:42Keynes, the machines bring online orders
23. 0:45of food and goods right to your door at
24. 0:49top speeds of 4 mph.
25. 0:53Companies behind the technology say
26. 0:55robots can be faster, safer, and better
27. 0:58for the environment than deliveries
28. 0:59[music] by road.
29. 1:02But for some locals living in the trial
30. 1:03areas, they can be a bit of a nuisance.
31. 1:08>> I find them quite menacing.
32. 1:10There's already a lot going on. You The
33. 1:12last thing you need is like a robot
34. 1:13zooming towards you quite fast.
35. 1:15>> They're just quite handy, aren't they?
36. 1:16It's quite a new little thing, a niche
37. 1:18thing for Leeds to have. I don't like
38. 1:20speaking to people. So, it's a good way
39. 1:22to not have to speak to anyone.
40. 1:24>> 50% of the street is like automated
41. 1:26machines and half of them is people
42. 1:28trying to just get around them. I'm
43. 1:29like, "Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Can I
44. 1:30squeeze past the robot?" It's not It's
45. 1:32our street. It's our street for humans.
46. 1:36>> A government consultation into whether
47. 1:39to bot or not is underway.
48. 1:42There's currently no national framework
49. 1:44for the use of autonomous delivery
50. 1:46robots, but ministers are considering
51. 1:49legalizing their use across the UK.
52. 1:52>> Stop it, please. I'm at work and I don't
53. 1:54want to be late.
54. 1:55>> Some charities are concerned about how
55. 1:57this could impact vulnerable road users.
56. 2:00>> Excuse me, would you please let me pass?
57. 2:02>> We think the people worse affected are
58. 2:05those who are visually impaired,
59. 2:07wheelchair users, and then parents
60. 2:09pushing prams. Particularly speaking
61. 2:12about disabled people, of which many of
62. 2:14them tend to be elderly, we actually
63. 2:17know that obstructed pavements lead to
64. 2:20people making less walked journeys,
65. 2:22which can breed social isolation.
66. 2:25>> Starship Technologies, the market leader
67. 2:27in robot deliveries, says it puts lived
68. 2:30experience of disability at the heart of
69. 2:32what it does and works with disability
70. 2:35charities to improve designs. And the
71. 2:38Department of Transport says whilst it
72. 2:40welcomes innovation and advances in
73. 2:42technology, it's vital the safety of
74. 2:44pedestrians and vulnerable users is put
75. 2:46first.
76. 2:48But with more than 10 million humanless
77. 2:50deliveries already completed worldwide,
78. 2:54has the robo takeover already begun?
79. 2:58Katie Roberts, BBC News.
80. 3:03>> The robo takeover.
81. 3:05We're joined now by Lisa Johnson, who's
82. 3:07vice president at Starship Technologies,
83. 3:09which designs and operates delivery
84. 3:11robots, and also James Barber, the
85. 3:13interim chief executive at the
86. 3:14organization Transport for All.
87. 3:18>> And I think we've got another guest as
88. 3:20well who's joining us this morning.
89. 3:22>> I believe so.
90. 3:25Here we go.
91. 3:25>> Making his entrance.
92. 3:26>> Navigating the ramp.
93. 3:34The suspense.
94. 3:36>> There we
95. 3:38>> Excellent.
96. 3:38>> go. Perfect parking. Good morning to
97. 3:41you, too.
98. 3:41>> Good morning. [snorts]
99. 3:42>> Good morning to the robot.
100. 3:46I said good morning
101. 3:47>> Good morning, John and Sarah. It's great
102. 3:48to be on BBC Breakfast.
103. 3:51>> It's great to have you, too, Mr. Robot.
104. 3:54>> Thank you. What I feel like I want
105. 3:55tomorrow as well.
106. 3:57>> [laughter]
107. 3:57>> They'll play back these clips in years
108. 3:58to come. Remember when this was a
109. 3:59novelty? Um Lisa, I mean, that's an
110. 4:02astonishing figure at the end of Katie's
111. 4:03piece there, that there are already
112. 4:05millions of these deliveries have
113. 4:06already happened around the world.
114. 4:08>> Absolutely. Starship have done uh more
115. 4:09than uh nearly 2 million in the UK, 10
116. 4:12million globally. So, I know people
117. 4:13think this is kind of the thing of the
118. 4:14future, but actually for a bunch of
119. 4:16communities, this is kind of just normal
120. 4:17life now. And that That's when we know
121. 4:19we're kind of winning is when it goes
122. 4:20from being novelty and people go, "Oh,
123. 4:21hey, there's a robot." to it just being
124. 4:23a part of normal life.
125. 4:24>> Yeah, cuz I live in Bristol, and I've
126. 4:26seen them on the streets now and again
127. 4:27in Bristol. That's one of the places
128. 4:28where it's being trialed. But where else
129. 4:30have you been doing it in the UK where
130. 4:31people might
131. 4:32>> That's right. So, Bristol, they're not
132. 4:32actually our robots in Bristol. We are
133. 4:34in Milton Keynes, Northamptonshire, West
134. 4:36Yorkshire, and just down the road,
135. 4:38actually, in in Greater Manchester, in
136. 4:40Sale. Um Wakefield, a bunch of places
137. 4:43across the UK where it is kind of just
138. 4:44like normality now.
139. 4:46>> And what do people get delivered? What
140. 4:48do they use them for?
141. 4:49>> So, the top delivery in the UK is
142. 4:51actually milk. So, quite often it's
143. 4:53top-up shopping. Cuz if you think about
144. 4:54how deliveries changed and grocery
145. 4:56shopping's changed over the last decade
146. 4:57or so, people increasingly want small
147. 5:00amounts of goods, they want it quickly,
148. 5:02and that demand has just exploded. So,
149. 5:03the question is like, how do you meet
150. 5:04that need that people have? And so,
151. 5:06that's what the robots That's the gap in
152. 5:08the market, really, that the robots
153. 5:09fill. So, quite often it's milk,
154. 5:11bananas. It's that top-up shopping when
155. 5:13you've got the kids home from school,
156. 5:15not got everything that you need for
157. 5:16tea. Um so, you get the robot to bring
158. 5:18it for you.
159. 5:19>> So, James, they're filling a gap, but
160. 5:21they're also filling the pavements,
161. 5:22aren't they? And for that reason, you
162. 5:24have some concerns.
163. 5:25>> Yeah, so um at Transport for All, we are
164. 5:28a national disability organization
165. 5:30representing the disabled community. And
166. 5:32one of our key issues is around
167. 5:34regulation. So, at the moment, there is
168. 5:36a lack of regulation around delivery
169. 5:38robots. And as a result, we have some
170. 5:40real concerns around safety. Um
171. 5:43our members and disabled people across
172. 5:44the United Kingdom are saying that
173. 5:46ultimately, these are delivery robots
174. 5:49that are taking up large spaces on
175. 5:51already congested pavements and we feel
176. 5:53very closely that disabled people and
177. 5:56indeed everyone should own the pavements
178. 5:58and people should always come before
179. 6:00delivery robots and other potential
180. 6:02barriers that could arise.
181. 6:04>> I mean is there is there a balance?
182. 6:06Presumably in the same way that people
183. 6:07who aren't maybe
184. 6:08as capable of walking, you know,
185. 6:10actually having that as a
186. 6:13a way to deliver to them that is helpful
187. 6:15as well. There is a balance there, is
188. 6:16there?
189. 6:16>> Absolutely and we fully accept that
190. 6:18there are also some benefits to them.
191. 6:21Many disabled people will have
192. 6:23different needs so there are potential
193. 6:25benefits that may arise from that but
194. 6:26for us those benefits don't always
195. 6:28outweigh the harms. When we have people
196. 6:30with say sight impairments who are
197. 6:33walking along pavements which are
198. 6:35already quite congested as it is they
199. 6:38are raising serious concerns that these
200. 6:40robots might not be able to pick up
201. 6:42their
202. 6:43supports, their mobility aids and
203. 6:45ultimately it can cause them quite
204. 6:47serious injury if something goes wrong.
205. 6:49>> I think you have trained it Lisa,
206. 6:50haven't you? So that if if the robot
207. 6:52comes into conflict or or or gets stuck
208. 6:55with a mobility device it can send out a
209. 6:58message. I think we can get a
210. 7:00demonstration of that now. Let's have a
211. 7:02listen.
212. 7:02>> Hello, we seem to be in a tricky
213. 7:04situation. Don't worry, I've asked for a
214. 7:06human to help remotely so you can be on
215. 7:08your way as soon as possible.
216. 7:10It should only take a few seconds.
217. 7:14>> So how does that actually work when it's
218. 7:15saying to asking a human? Is there a
219. 7:17human tracking the movements of the
220. 7:19robot at all times?
221. 7:20>> So the robot can call for help. They're
222. 7:2199% autonomous so whenever you see them
223. 7:24out in the wild they're navigating on
224. 7:25their own but in those rare occasions
225. 7:27where they're like actually I don't know
226. 7:29what to do here or maybe I need a little
227. 7:30bit of help, I'll just call a remote
228. 7:32human who'll go "Okay, I see what's
229. 7:34happening. I'm going to give you a
230. 7:35little hand to [clears throat] help you
231. 7:36out." And so last year for example in
232. 7:38the operating areas we've got in the UK
233. 7:40we identified around us around 23,000
234. 7:45mobility devices or wheelchairs. There
235. 7:47were very, very few incidents where we
236. 7:48had to call someone to help the robot
237. 7:50move or reverse because it's scanning
238. 7:52the whole time. So, a bit like a person
239. 7:53walking down a street, you can see if
240. 7:55people are coming towards you, cars
241. 7:57moving in the periphery. The robot's got
242. 7:58a 360 view of the world, so it kind of
243. 8:00does have eyes in the back of its head,
244. 8:02and it can anticipate those problems
245. 8:03before they happen. But, if we do get
246. 8:05into that situation, the robot can call
247. 8:07for help and resolve it as quickly as
248. 8:08possible.
249. 8:10>> It's fascinating, isn't it, to think
250. 8:11that this could become normal? We will
251. 8:13follow the debate and see how your
252. 8:15campaign goes as well. Thank you very
253. 8:17much indeed for coming in, all of you.
254. 8:19And you know, they always say, don't
255. 8:20they, that robots can take your job one
256. 8:22day.
257. 8:22>> Absolutely.
258. 8:23>> Surely, robot, that can't happen.
259. 8:26>> It's time to get the news, travel, and
260. 8:28weather where you are.