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YouTube2Text → Transcripts → April 23, 2015 - Immaculee Ilibagiza - Faith & Forgiveness: Surviving the Genocide in Rwanda

April 23, 2015 - Immaculee Ilibagiza - Faith & Forgiveness: Surviving the Genocide in Rwanda — Transcript

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0:00[music]
0:04Good evening everyone.
0:07Good evening. I'm Pastor Tim Westermire,
0:10one of the pastors here at St. Philip
0:11Padik and it is my privilege and
0:13pleasure to welcome you here tonight as
0:16we conclude the 12th season of the faith
0:20and life lecture series. Um, I always
0:23like to ask at this point, how many
0:24people are here tonight who have never
0:26been to a faith and life event uh in the
0:29past? if you could raise your hand.
0:31Wonderful. Good. Welcome. Special
0:34welcome to all of you. I'm glad you're
0:35here. And welcome to those of you who
0:37have been following this series for the
0:39last 12 years. As you know, if you have
0:41followed the series, our goal has been
0:44to bring in exceptionally gifted
0:46speakers from uh both the country and
0:48around the world to talk about different
0:50dimensions of how Christian faith
0:52connects with everyday life. Um, and
0:57tonight at this point, what I would
0:59typically be doing is introducing our
1:02speaker. Uh, however, tonight rather
1:05than having me introduce her, uh, we're
1:07actually going to watch a 7 minute video
1:09or so that will give you some context
1:12for who she is and what she's been
1:14through. And, uh, so I'm going to draw
1:16your attention to the screen here as I
1:18pray that this DVD actually works.
1:55I was [music] born in Rwanda.
2:00Rwanda is a tiny country [music] located
2:03in the central Africa.
2:06It was and still is one of the most
2:09beautiful places in the world.
2:12Very green and perfect [music] tropical
2:14weather.
2:21My village was in Kibuya. Our house was
2:25on a hill that overlooked Lake Ku.
2:38My mom and dad were teachers. They were
2:41very good parents who were very
2:44respected in the village.
2:47In my family, we were four children. I
2:49was one girl among three boys. We loved
2:53each other a lot. They were very
2:55protective until the last time we
2:57separated.
2:59There was a rebellion going on, an
3:01ethnically based rebellion uh in Rwanda.
3:07Right after the holiday, I had an exam,
3:10really an important exam. The regime in
3:13Rwanda that was responsible for the
3:15genocide was a criminal regime.
3:18It operated uh according to the logic of
3:21criminal gangs.
3:23So I wrote to my parents and I told them
3:26I wanted to stay in school to prepare
3:28for my exam.
3:29And the aim of the uh of the uh military
3:33dictatorship was to preserve power by
3:36eliminating that rebellion.
3:39My father said, "We miss you and you
3:41have been away so much away from us." So
3:45I went home.
3:47Easter vacation that year changed
3:50everything in my life.
3:56The president's plane was shut down and
3:59the genocide began.
4:01The two leaders died after attending
4:03peace talks aimed at ending decades of
4:06tribal conflict in the two countries.
4:08President Habyarima of Rwanda and
4:10President Entar of Burundi were killed
4:13when their plane came down near the
4:15Rwanda capital Kegali. Both were members
4:18of the majority Hoou tribe.
4:20When the president's plane was shot
4:21down, it just was was chaos. Within less
4:25than an hour, you started to hear the
4:27gunfire in your own neighborhood right
4:29up close to you.
4:31Before it was always kind of far away
4:33and it's like it just spread everywhere.
4:42It was a very wellorganized program of
4:45genocide. [music]
4:46It had been established before the plane
4:48went down and it was just waiting for
4:50this event or an event like it to click
4:52into motion.
4:53These people had lists. They had lists
4:56of people that had to be killed. They
4:57had and then it became crazy.
5:05And I remember my father telling me, "We
5:07are worried that you might get raped and
5:10we we are worried that we can't help
5:12you."
5:14They were going home to home,
5:15neighborhood to neighborhood, uh
5:18breaking down doors, hacking people to
5:20death. Some of the names of uh tootsies
5:23were being broadcast on the radio.
5:38When I saw Immacula back in in her own
5:42home area and she says to the
5:45photographer, "Come and take a picture
5:47of me with this man." And and I'm asking
5:49her, "Who's this man?" And she explains
5:51to me, "Well, his brother killed my
5:53brother." And I'm like, "Wait, you know,
5:55my western mind is kicking in and I got
5:57to understand who what the details and
5:58stuff." and she just puts her arm around
6:00him and she says, "No, it's okay. It's
6:01okay.
6:05I just about lost it because it's not
6:09okay."
6:12You read in the powerful little museum
6:13here in Kegali
6:16a young Rwanda child saying, "If you
6:19would have really known me for who I
6:22was, you could have never killed me.
6:27[music]
6:36[music]
6:51[music]
7:03[music]
7:03When I think about heroes here in
7:05Rwanda, I think about people like
7:09Immaculate
7:11who are [music] willing now to share
7:14what life is like,
7:16going back, touching on it, exploring
7:19it. [singing]
7:24For her to take the time and to visit
7:26these places with people like us and let
7:28us share in some of that grief and some
7:31of that process
7:33takes unimaginable courage.
7:38I did hate of course I was very angry
7:42during the bathroom time. I couldn't
7:44understand how another human being can
7:47cause you so much pain.
7:50why
7:52we were all created. We never chose to
7:56be who we become. We don't choose our
8:00race. We don't choose our tribe. We
8:03don't even choose a country where we are
8:05born.
8:06And I thought that I can pay them back
8:08for what they were doing to me. And
8:11thank God I was able to see that that
8:14was useless. that was only going to
8:17prolong the pain and hatred in this
8:20world.
8:24I hid in this tiny bathroom for 91 days
8:30and they never found me.
8:33But I found myself
9:01Will you help me welcome Immacula Il
9:04Beiganza.
9:08[applause]
9:13Thank you. Thank you so much.
9:16[applause]
9:18Thank you so much. Thank you. It is
9:21really really a great joy to be here and
9:24I'm so grateful that you invited me to
9:27to share my story with you and know my
9:30agent when he told me I'm coming here
9:33which I I do go to many places and he
9:36says is a return church I said but I'm
9:39Catholic right
9:43yeah they know
9:45when I love them I just want to make
9:47sure they know of me too. [laughter]
9:49[gasps] No, it is really great joy and
9:51I'm I'm I'm very happy. I have been
9:54privileged, you know, to speak about my
9:57experience and go to Adventist churches
10:00and share my faith and go to Jewish
10:03places and go to Mullmons, you know, and
10:06and that is those places you realize
10:09that no matter what differences,
10:12however, we believe a little bit
10:13differently,
10:15there is a human heart. We are all the
10:17children of God. And when we speak from
10:20our hearts, we are all the same. But
10:22especially here, I am I'm home. I'm a
10:25Christian like you. And um I was coming
10:28with pastor Tim. Father Jim, but I'm
10:33trying to call you father Tim. Okay.
10:38Yes, the same. [gasps] But as we're
10:41coming together and I'm really just it
10:43brought me back to to my home especially
10:46my story when I was hiding I hid in a
10:49home a Protestant pastor who was a
10:52friend of my parents and they trusted to
10:55send me to hide. So when I saw you it
10:57reminded me a lot about my hiding time.
11:00[clears throat] So I'm really happy that
11:02you invited me to speak here because
11:05there's a lot of emotional connection in
11:08that way. The genocide was a terrible
11:11thing, terrible, terrible experience. I
11:14will not wish anybody to go through what
11:17I have gone through to see what I saw.
11:20But it is also a story that taught me so
11:23much, so much about life, so much about
11:26faith. And among many lessons I learned,
11:30one of them was maybe actually a gift,
11:34not a lesson. I knew it but somehow it
11:37was not as strong as became to know
11:41without a shadow of doubt that God is
11:44real. God we read in the Bible God we
11:47have heard who is everywhere who loves
11:50us. You think maybe he loves you because
11:53you still have a good life, okay,
11:56everything is going well. But you don't
11:58think maybe if I go through trouble then
12:01you will think God have left me. But it
12:04was actually through the darkest hour
12:06that I saw God that I saw his love that
12:10he spoke louder and I really was sure
12:14for sure yes there is God
12:18and my life never been the same. Another
12:21big lesson I learned was
12:24to know the power of love.
12:27No wonder why our Lord gave it to us as
12:31the greatest commandment. Love God above
12:34and love one another. Because if a
12:38genocide happened to our country is
12:40because we failed to love one another. I
12:43used to work I had a United Nations and
12:46um we've been in a suit and dress very
12:49nicely right here in the New York City
12:51and in my country and we would have big
12:54meetings and we would talk about how
12:56this should never happen again. What
12:59happened to Rwanda and I'm looking at
13:01people but what are you doing? It
13:04doesn't take money. It takes the heart.
13:08It takes to change. It takes love.
13:11Unless we touch about what really went
13:13wrong, we cannot say it can't happen
13:16again. It's going to happen again.
13:18Whatever decision you take, it will
13:20happen again. Unless we really talk
13:23about what was went wrong. People loved
13:28each other less. People forgot to love
13:31one another.
13:33And when you in the office, you see
13:35people who sit together are fighting for
13:37a promotion, looking at each other in a
13:40bad way, hiding each other information.
13:43And then you're saying no genocide
13:45again. These are the seeds. You start
13:48home, you start in the office for people
13:51to care for one another. And then we can
13:54think that is possible we can avoid the
13:56genocide in countries. So love became
14:01something to honor. So simple and yet so
14:05big. And when you see it lacking in your
14:08homes, just know this where it starts.
14:12And to love one another, it took another
14:16picture for me. The way we talk to one
14:19another, the voice we use, the tr the
14:23choice of words we use to communicate
14:25one another to one another, the attitude
14:30or that is love. And either it can
14:33promote peace I that can take it away.
14:36In my country,
14:39hatred, lack of love took a million
14:42people.
14:43It is then you realize wow so love is
14:47that simple and yet that important. I do
14:50respect love. [snorts] Another big
14:53lesson was to know that forgiveness
14:56actually was possible. And yet without
15:00forgiveness also it can take peace away
15:04from you for years. And yet it is a
15:08grace but it is also a decision we take
15:12to even ask for that grace. I used to
15:15think you forgive somebody who says
15:17something bad about you. I was a student
15:19before the genocide. Somebody who took
15:22my pain. I can forgive them. I would
15:24think about that.
15:26But not somebody who killed somebody
15:29from your family until I went through
15:32hatred that burned my skin. Hatred I
15:37felt you can't put put in a place it can
15:42nothing can hold it. I remember being
15:44angry and feeling
15:48my skin is burning. My blood is running
15:52faster out of anger out of my own
15:55thoughts. I am sweating out of anger and
15:59nobody's touching me. I wanted to kill
16:02the whole country and I feel like I was
16:05one of those people who were killing in
16:07my thoughts. I couldn't do it with my
16:10hands physically but in my thoughts I
16:12did it. I revenged and with all that my
16:17skin will be burning
16:20and to go there and to come back to a
16:22journey where I felt peace. I didn't
16:25know it was possible but it was the
16:27greatest gift. I remember a time in a
16:31genocide when I would feel so much peace
16:33from God and I would ask him I wish I
16:37can I can have people I can just tell
16:40them that you are really there that
16:43everything you told us to do is actually
16:46for our own good look how I'm feeling so
16:49happy when I'm praying when I'm letting
16:52go the anger my body is responding to
16:55that so it was a terrible experience but
16:58it was an experience that really allowed
17:01me to feel the things they tell us in
17:04the Bible and to see them real hatred
17:09and love in extreme ways.
17:12And I have been privileged to meet
17:14people who really share the experience
17:17with me. Some people have told me after
17:20we heard you you speak and after we read
17:23your book, we were able to let go the
17:25anger. I mean when I was writing it was
17:29not my intention. I just thought I'm
17:31exper sharing my my experience. However,
17:35I saw that my story sharing our stories
17:38not just me alone. Somehow we encourage
17:41each other. We give each other hope. You
17:44know when you know that another person
17:45have gone through such a thing you
17:47realize you two you can survive it. But
17:50to see how many people especially who
17:52came and said I was able to let go the
17:55anger. I realized that I wasn't maybe
17:58the only one who have struggled with
17:59that. We really struggle with anger. And
18:03the thing is the world we live in, we
18:06get hurt. No matter what you you don't
18:09want it, you want it, you will get hurt.
18:12We hurt people on purpose or without on
18:14purpose, willingly and willingly. And we
18:18really have to be ready to apologize and
18:22have to be ready to forgive. Otherwise
18:25we cannot live in peace in this world. I
18:28remember a man who told me he said after
18:31I heard you speak for the first time in
18:3454 years I was able to sleep in peace
18:38and I just knew what he meant. Another
18:42lady told me after I heard you speak I
18:45went home
18:46I pick up my phone I called my mom. I
18:50have not spoken to in 20 years.
18:54She said, "After I blow up, I left. I
18:57never looked back." And she said, "We
18:59cried and we laughed after 20 years just
19:03with one call." And she said, "I can't
19:06believe how much affection I wasted from
19:09my own mother out of my own my anger."
19:13And it is really the prayer I offer God
19:17when I go to speak if he left me for
19:20this at least that the grace he used to
19:24touch me that will touch you because we
19:26all have something to let go.
19:29As you saw in the documentary the
19:31genocide started 1994. I was a student
19:34in college and I was home for Easter
19:37holiday and I never forgot the day it
19:39started. It was Wednesday. My brother
19:42who have just finished his master's
19:44degree
19:46came to my room, pushed the door and
19:48gave me the news that the president of
19:50the country died that night. So in my
19:54country we had two main tribes hutu and
19:57tootsies and I belonged to a tribe that
20:00was not well loved but it was really
20:03political problems. However, as you know
20:06the politics they affect us. So we loved
20:10each other between the tribes. My best
20:12friend to this day is from the other
20:15tribe. But somehow the politicians for
20:18their own self-interest they had been
20:20causing these two people not to like
20:23each other. There was a radio I remember
20:26you just saw it in the documentary for
20:28two years before the genocide where the
20:31journalist would act like they were
20:34drunk. So they will be saying things
20:36like one day we kill those people. Have
20:40you seen them? They're not human beings.
20:42They have tails. They have horns. And
20:45they will laugh. And these are the
20:46people we look alike. We same. You don't
20:49know who is Tootsie. Who is Hutu? But
20:51they have been doing that for the
20:55self-interest of protecting the power.
20:57It was almost like political parties.
21:00That's how it went to. So the Hutus said
21:03if we have this we kill them we keep the
21:06power. So that was the reason behind it.
21:10So they have started the genocide. They
21:13have prepared it and the very beginning
21:15was to kill the president. Many people
21:18believe his own people killed him
21:20because he would not allow them to kill
21:23a whole tribe under his mandate. They
21:26knew that the world would ask him what
21:28happened. So they killed him to be
21:30sacrificed for that. So when my brother
21:33told me, I remember my mind went back to
21:36that radio and I thought they going to
21:39kill us. They were insulting us for the
21:41time, but it's not fair. I mean to be
21:46born somewhere and somebody just want to
21:48kill you. But somehow you knew in your
21:51mind. I knew something bad is going to
21:53happen. I remember I went outside. I met
21:56my parents. We were so worried. My
21:59parents were teachers. We put on the
22:02radio. We're capturing every channel
22:04just to try to find out what was going
22:07on in the country. The people who were
22:09the leaders now who took over after the
22:12president the president died, the new
22:14president, they blocked the borders
22:16right away like 10 minutes after the
22:19president died. No one can go outside.
22:22They shut down every activity in a
22:24country. No work, no bank, no public
22:29transportation. They told us all to stay
22:31home. And they were reporting people who
22:34were being killed. I remember 2 hours
22:36later BBC radio reported 18 families. 10
22:41children and mom and dad have just been
22:44killed. Eight children and mom and dad
22:47have just been killed. They will report.
22:50And I remember my father thinking and
22:52saying this never happened before. Where
22:55have they killed a whole family? Well,
22:58that's why they call it the genocide.
23:00And I remember at the end of the day, we
23:03had so many people coming home. By the
23:06second day, we had about 10,000 people,
23:09people from different areas coming to my
23:12house and asking my parents what to do.
23:15My parents were people who cared so much
23:18about everybody in the village. I
23:21remember the things we used to speak on
23:23our diner table was somebody who doesn't
23:27have money to see a doctor, how they can
23:29raise money to send that person,
23:32somebody who need to to go to school in
23:34a poor family, don't have money. It was
23:37always about people who need help in a
23:40village. The village was like a family.
23:42If one was suffering, it was a concern
23:45of everybody. And I really as children,
23:49we didn't like my mom and daddy's talk.
23:52You know, we wanted new clothes, new
23:54shoes, not to talk about the next person
23:56to help until people started to come
23:59home when the whole thing started. And I
24:02wondered why are they coming here. It
24:05was then I realized people have been
24:08touched. They knew how much people my
24:11parents cared for them. That really
24:13touched me. That was the beginning of
24:16showing me the power of love of caring
24:19for people. And I remember one of the
24:22image I remember of my father. He wasn't
24:26official leader but he was he just cared
24:29about everyone. I remember one of the
24:31image he stood in front of everybody.
24:36Tootsie and Hutu came from different
24:38religion. You can be Protestant,
24:41Catholic, you know who is a Tootsie, who
24:44is a Hutu. So it was nothing at all
24:45about religion. But I remember last
24:47image I saw he had the rosary in his
24:50hand. I'm come from a Catholic family
24:53and he spoke to everybody and people
24:55trusted him and the words he said they
24:59really increase my faith. He said, "If
25:02it is a matter of a small group that
25:05want to kill us, we will defeat them, do
25:10not be scared. Fear is our worst enemy."
25:13And then he said, "However, if it is the
25:16government that want to kill us,
25:20I cannot lie to you. They will kill us.
25:23They block the borders. They have the
25:26military. They have the police." And
25:28then he said, "But even if it was a
25:31government, let's not be scared. Let's
25:34take this as a chance God is giving us
25:38to repent our sins so we can go to
25:41heaven." I remember thinking, "Somebody
25:45believes in heaven who is about to die.
25:49I mean, I knew I had faith and I really
25:52thought I did." But it was a moment that
25:55revealed to me maybe not that strong. My
25:58father was not a doctor who is telling
26:00somebody too bad you have a bad sickness
26:03you will die. He was one of the people
26:06who are going to be killed and he is
26:08saying let's take this as a chance. How
26:12many people who know they're going to
26:13die? How many people who die by accident
26:16but as maybe we know so let's repent our
26:19sins so we can be clean you mean you
26:23telling people how to die not how to run
26:26it was really a wake up moment and I
26:29remember it came to me and in that
26:32moment I was trying to remember
26:34everything I've done in my life that God
26:37doesn't like every sin so that I can
26:40apologize to God he came to me he handed
26:43me the rosary beads he had and asked me
26:46to hide to a neighbor who was a
26:49Protestant pastor and who was from the
26:51Houthu tribe. I remember before I left
26:54my brother came to him and he said,
26:57"Dad, you are sending him her to a man
27:00who is from the other tribe. If things
27:03go bad, they will kill they will kill
27:06her." And I was one daughter. That's why
27:09my they tried to protect me. They wanted
27:11to just make sure I was safe and the
27:13boys just were pushing me. And then my
27:16father said, "I know that man. Even if
27:20things go bad, he will not be able to
27:22kill. He's a friend." And I really have
27:26to insist not everyone was killing in
27:29the tribe. Not even half of them. It was
27:32a government was using the tribe name to
27:35gain the power. We are killing them.
27:38That was also another moment that really
27:41just like emphasized the lesson my
27:44father used to tell us. This was the man
27:48different from us but he knew he was a
27:51good man. He used to tell us do not
27:55judge people. Avoid putting people in
27:58boxes because they come from that
28:01country because they come from that
28:03state, that religion, that tribe. He
28:06said always open your heart. If people
28:09tr prove you wrong take your distance
28:12but if they don't remember we are all
28:14God's children. In that moment it was
28:17also a moment I said he meant it. I
28:20mean, I knew how much he loved me, that
28:22he's sending me to a person who's
28:24completely from the other tribe, but he
28:27opened his heart to be his friend to be
28:29able to see this man is not what they
28:32say everyone should be in that tribe. I
28:36went to the man where they sent me. I
28:39remember when I was leaving, it was
28:42almost like a voice in me was clear
28:45enough and was telling me, "Look back.
28:49you will never see them again.
28:52And another voice in me, I was fighting
28:54it. Why? Why are we not see them again?
28:58I mean, we are among friends, among
29:01neighbors.
29:03I will make a step. Something in me will
29:05tell me, "Look back. You will never see
29:09them again." It was really hard. I went
29:13to the neighbor. I told him what my
29:15parents told me.
29:17I remember he put me to sit in a tiny
29:19bathroom 3x4 ft. I can still remember
29:23his face. He was so scared. He said,
29:26"You never know what can happen in a
29:28times like this when the politicians
29:31start to use anyway to hold people to
29:34protect their power." So he showed me
29:37this tiny bathroom 3x4 ft. I remember
29:40when I looked at that place, I thought
29:43this is too small for me. I can sit
29:45here. I mean, three days before that, I
29:50had a scholarship in college. I was
29:53going to school. I was paid to go to
29:56school. I had my own room in school. I
30:00had my own rooms in my parents's house.
30:03Three days before that, everything
30:05seemed to be okay. In my life in my life
30:09dur until then I have never seen a
30:12family member dying not even a grandma I
30:15have never been to a final line in my
30:17family before that and you mean things
30:21can change that quickly and I'm sitting
30:25in this 3x4 feet as I was complaining
30:28the pastor went and brought five more
30:31women
30:33later he brought two more women we were
30:36eight people in 3x4 by 4 ft. It was also
30:41another moment that really taught me
30:43something. When you think things are
30:45bad,
30:47they can get worse
30:50and really taught me just to take things
30:52easy, not to complain necessary or not
30:56to take complain as something good
30:59because actually it makes things worse.
31:02But I think when we take it easy calmly,
31:05you can see things in the face and then
31:08calmly you can make decisions to make
31:10the next tape. So when we were now
31:12eight, we had to find a place to sit in
31:153x4 ft. Literally we're sitting on the
31:18top of each other. I remember the elder
31:20was 55 years old. The younger was 7
31:24years old.
31:26The man told us that he won't even tell
31:28his children that we are there. He said
31:31he would tell them that he lost the key
31:33of the bathroom. He said, "You never
31:36know who can say something. It will be
31:38too late. Even if I trust my children."
31:42So, we sat there. We couldn't make any
31:45noise. He came to visit to see us again.
31:49Not that he didn't want to come to give
31:52us food to see us. But the time he can
31:54afford to come back was about two three
31:57days later because no one knew that we
32:00were there. And to have eight people in
32:03Rwanda this especially my village was
32:05really poor. It was that place we don't
32:07have electricity. We don't have fridges,
32:10stoages like in America you have cookies
32:12and you have you know things you store
32:14you can eat. We cooked in Rwanda lunch
32:17and just finished at night you cooked
32:20again and just finished and you cook
32:23again. the next day. So he couldn't have
32:24found any food and later he managed to
32:27give us food they can he took from the
32:31garbage. Oh, I used to be so picky in my
32:35family.
32:36I gave my mom such hard time to eat. I
32:40couldn't even eat food that was mixed
32:42together.
32:43I seem to care how food looks like in my
32:46stomach. [snorts]
32:47And now I had to close my eyes, my nose
32:51and eat just to survive. I remember at
32:54the end of the week the man came to give
32:57us food. I couldn't take it. I thought
33:00it was too much. I could not spend there
33:03another one more day. So I grabbed his
33:06food and I asked him if he can put the
33:08radio outside so we can hear what was
33:11going on in the country. He was kind. He
33:15put three different radios, different
33:18channels outside of the bathroom where
33:20we can hear. I couldn't believe what was
33:24going on in the country. The leaders who
33:27used to hide behind the private radio.
33:30They were out on a national radio
33:33calling everybody to kill everybody of
33:36my tribe. I remember one man again also
33:40who did something to my faith. Good
33:43actually.
33:45He said he was he was a government
33:47minister. He had a PhD. We respected
33:51him. We knew him. I remember his
33:53daughter was one of my girlfriend from
33:55high school. So he used to come to visit
33:58us from trips from Europe and he would
34:00bring us cookies and chocolate which I
34:03have never seen before. So this man was
34:06somebody who who was very important in
34:08the country. He was a government
34:10minister. He went on radio and he said,
34:13"Do not forget to kill the children. A
34:16child of a snake is a snake. A child of
34:20a cockroach is a cockroach. They are not
34:23human beings." And what he did to my
34:25fate was I used to put somehow some
34:28trust in politicians on people who had a
34:32bigger diploma because they must know
34:35better. They going to school after all.
34:38They did all that. they must reason
34:40better. It was that moment I realized
34:44the heart is smarter than the brain and
34:49two put together they can make sure for
34:52sure make a miracles but if you don't
34:54have love if you don't have the value to
34:57guide what you are learning this can
35:00only damage he is saying kill children a
35:04child is an enemy that was the time I
35:07started to trust fully the voice in my
35:10heart to trust God what he said and to
35:13see what is outside if it is really what
35:17the person is saying is truth or not
35:20regardless of who that person can be. So
35:23they gave prices to people who killed
35:26more people. They reported how they run
35:29to churches and burn people who went to
35:32churches. I mean they would go to
35:33Anglican churches, Baptist, Catholic,
35:36Protestant and burn people who run to
35:38churches. They would go to stadiums and
35:41throw hundreds of grenades inside to
35:44kill everybody who run to stadiums and
35:46they would be laughing giving prices and
35:49I'm like what is going on with people?
35:52So they thought somehow they have
35:54cleansed the country after they killed
35:56thousands of people but the worst
35:59happened to us. They gave order to start
36:02search home by home. You think it was
36:06bad to be in one room without moving for
36:11one week, but to know that somebody's
36:14going to come to haunt for you, it was
36:16the worst thing I've known. I remember
36:18the day they came for the first time. I
36:21was stretching and I saw in the tiny
36:23window of the bathroom something I
36:26thought was a thousand people. people
36:28from my village, people I went to school
36:31with, literally people I can call
36:33friends, they were now they told them we
36:37are enemies. So they turned against us.
36:39I remember they were dressed in banana
36:41leaves, you know, to try to scare
36:44people. They had all kind of arms,
36:46machetes, long spares. They came inside
36:48the house and they started to scream.
36:51And I remember the feeling I had which
36:54happened many more times. I remember
36:57feeling like my body is in fire but I am
37:01not dying completely. Like I wish the
37:05fire can burn me and get done with it. I
37:08remember feeling like a thousand needles
37:09are going through your body just knowing
37:12that I'm going to die in a few seconds.
37:15And the worst question to ask yourself
37:17is why God made me. I didn't choose
37:22this. Call me a stone. Call me a tree,
37:26but don't kill me for that. Don't hate
37:29me. It was so unfair. And I wish just to
37:33open their eyes and show them I'm not
37:35bad. I This is what they call me. I I
37:40wish you can see I'm innocent. No, it
37:43was enough just to belong to that tribe
37:46they gave you to be killed. Then I
37:49remember I mean this was a four-bedroom
37:52house. So it wasn't like a building, not
37:55even a basement, somewhere you think you
37:57can hide in some corner. That was it. I
38:00remember feeling like I had two voices
38:03over my shoulders and one voice is
38:05telling me, "Open the door and the
38:09torture. They're going to find you
38:11anyway." And this was nothing too
38:13strange. It sounded like me being
38:16reasonable. I mean, why wait if they're
38:19going to find you? There were three to
38:21400 people. That what the pastor told
38:25told us later. You couldn't think
38:27there's an escape. However, I mean this
38:30is nothing too strange. I think I still
38:32go through that when I'm facing a
38:34challenge and maybe you do. Should I
38:37should I not give up? Not give up. But
38:40it's always bad and good. So the nice
38:43voice something inside of me was telling
38:45me do not open the door. Ask God to help
38:50you. Remember who God is? God is
38:54almighty. You know what almighty means?
38:57It means he can do anything. You know
39:00what anything means? It means even if
39:04they see you, they might not be able to
39:06touch you. You know how nice to be able
39:09to have that? I don't even know how
39:11people who don't believe in God how they
39:12live. How do they go through trouble
39:15without believing that there's something
39:17beyond you, bigger than you, that can
39:19defend you? But that was nice. And I
39:22really felt hope. Oh, that's good.
39:25That's true. I can ask God, I'm not here
39:28alone. But the bad voice convinced me,
39:31there is no God. Really? Do you know how
39:34many innocent people dying the kids? Why
39:37would he protect you anyway even if he
39:39was there? But he doesn't exist. It is
39:42all your pastor and your priest told you
39:45just to convince you otherwise. And that
39:48voice kind of convinced me, yeah,
39:50there's no God. However, again, it was
39:53like a battle between good and evil. I
39:55felt like the nicer voice something
39:57said, "Before you lose your faith, at
40:00least ask God to give you a sign that
40:03he's there or not."
40:05And as quickly as that, I turned to the
40:08nicer voice and I remember asking with
40:12all my heart, not as a Christian, not as
40:15a Catholic, from a creator to the
40:19creator, the one who made me, who are
40:24you? I remember asking God if it is
40:27somebody who made this ground I'm
40:30standing on if it is somebody who made
40:33my skin if it is somebody who control my
40:36breath somebody who put together all the
40:39moon and the stars I am begging you just
40:42show me a sign are you there can you
40:45hear me I might not understand how
40:48things work with you but are you even
40:50there and if you give me a sign I
40:54promise you. I will never lose faith in
40:56you again. I might not understand, but I
40:59will know you are there even if I can't
41:00hear you. In that moment, I remember
41:03asking God for a sign,
41:07a specific sign. I didn't want to get
41:09confused.
41:11Who did it? Was it luck? Was it me? You
41:14know, was it God? And I remember asking
41:17God, if you can hear me, you don't have
41:19to speak, but don't let the killers open
41:22the door of the bathroom. Four
41:25bedroomedroom house, three 400 people
41:28not opening this door. I will know it is
41:31you who did it because if this about
41:33being saved, they can see us and not
41:35even kill us. But I don't want to look
41:38in their face. Please don't let them
41:40open the door. I think after that I
41:43fainted. I couldn't hear nothing until
41:47about five hours later the pastor was
41:50hiding us. Came to the bathroom
41:54and opened the door. We all jumped. We
41:57told it to the killers who have arrived
42:01and he told us they have left a long
42:03time ago and he told us what has
42:05happened. He said a big number of them
42:08went around the house to make sure no
42:10one would jump out of the window.
42:13Another number went inside the house.
42:16Another number went in the ceiling of
42:18the house with flashlights to make sure
42:21no one is hiding there. Another number
42:23went on the roof of the house to make
42:26sure no one is laying there. They went
42:28in every room under the beds, in the
42:32closet. They even open suitcases to make
42:36sure there's no babies hiding.
42:38At last, they came right to the door of
42:41the bathroom. One of the killers touched
42:44the handle. He said, "I was sweating. I
42:47was shaking." That what the man who was
42:50hiding said. And he said, "The killer
42:52touched the handle. Before he pushed and
42:55open, he said, "You know what? We trust
42:58you. You are one of us. You are a good
43:02man. You cannot hide the bad guys, the
43:06enemies of the country. You are one of
43:09us. There's nothing here." and he turned
43:12around and left. When the man told us,
43:16the shocking part for me was not, "Oh,
43:19we are saved." It was, "Oh my God, God
43:23is real.
43:25God heard me in the bathroom,
43:29not even the church."
43:32And then I started to think, I didn't
43:34even speak. I only thought.
43:37So it's true what the priests have been
43:40telling us and that God is can see
43:43everything. He's inside of us and
43:44outside is true. He's everywhere.
43:48But that was good to realize that I'm
43:52not alone. No matter where I am, even
43:54when I don't talk, but a little bit
43:57scary was he sees everything.
44:02You know, was a little bit scary. Even
44:04when I'm thinking he knows, you mean we
44:08don't have any privacy?
44:11It's a little bit scary.
44:14Well, what that did to me was I started
44:16to speak to God as I'm talking to you.
44:20The anger I had, I would tell him, well,
44:23you know, I have I have a good reason to
44:25be angry. I know you don't like it, but
44:28you know, they're killing my family, so
44:29I'm sure you understand because he sees
44:32anyway. I remember I asked the man, the
44:35pastor to give me the Bible because now
44:38I just wanted to know who is this God I
44:42almost lost faith in. If I almost lost
44:45my faith is because in the first place I
44:48didn't have enough. And that was a
44:50little bit scary how between the two I
44:52can get stuck and how quickly I could
44:55have opened the door, end it, end the
44:58torture. But now I turned to God. He
45:01gave me the Bible and I started to read
45:03the Bible. Not like how sometimes I read
45:06it. Sometimes I read just to make sure.
45:09I prayed today and I read the Bible and
45:12by the evening I forget what I read
45:14about in the morning. No, I was reading
45:18to understand to learn who are you? Why
45:22did you create us? I would highlight why
45:25did you made us for this mess? It's so
45:29funny when you talk to God somehow he
45:32answers back. I don't know how I I don't
45:35think I never heard him speak louder
45:37like I can say I know the tone of his
45:39voice but somehow he speaks back. I felt
45:42like go God was saying I created you
45:46because I love you. What what do you
45:49think a couple when they get married
45:51they want to have a child?
45:53What do you think the couple have plans
45:55for that child? Oh, we're going to make
45:57a doctor out of the child and or this
45:59child will do this to us for us. No,
46:02they want to have a baby. A baby to love
46:06the same way I made you. Okay, then.
46:08Okay, but how are we in this maze? How
46:12did we end up in a genocide? Cuz I was
46:15preferring not to have been born than
46:17being there at that time. How did we end
46:21up here? I felt like God was saying,
46:23"Open the Bible. I gave you directions
46:26to follow." They have not been followed.
46:29What happened when an adult tells a
46:32child, "Don't touch the stove. It's hot.
46:35It's going to burn you." And the child
46:38goes like, "Let me touch it. It's a nice
46:40color." It hurts. And sometimes
46:44consequences can be really heavy by not
46:47following the directions you are given
46:49by somebody who cares about you. From
46:52that moment I realized the commandments
46:55of God are not a way to say I'm boss
46:58embossy I say so you don't do that
47:02actually it's a way God is saying don't
47:05go there don't do that it hurts it will
47:09cause a lot of troubles so don't do it
47:11that's how I really started to seek the
47:13commandments of God love one another not
47:16because I say so but because it is
47:19better it will protect you. It has not
47:22been done. And somehow I just wanted to
47:25understand. And then I remember
47:27thinking, okay, God, but how do we end
47:30this? How does it end? Where do we go
47:33after this? How long do we stay in this
47:35mess in life? And I remember again
47:39reading, I don't know, it was coming to
47:40my heart. But think about it. Life on
47:43earth, it might be a hundred years. How
47:46many people will reach to that? A
47:48hundred. What about after? where there's
47:50a choice of heaven and there's a choice
47:52of hell. It's up to you what you want to
47:54work for. Now, let me look at heaven.
47:56And I wanted to look in the Bible. What
47:59does the Bible speaks about heaven? It's
48:02a paradise.
48:04A paradise. How long is it? Eternity.
48:08That is long.
48:10Billions and zillions of years in a
48:12paradise. You mean no more pain and no
48:15more getting older. just like a blaze
48:18for heaven and ever. I remember taking a
48:21pen on a paper. Let me try to compare
48:24this so that my brain can really get it.
48:27Life on earth 100. Life in heaven
48:31billions and doesn't end. And I remember
48:34comparing the two. Life on earth becomes
48:37like a dot on a map compared to
48:40eternity. It becomes like a blink in the
48:42lifetime. And I remember thinking I am
48:45I'm a student in college. I know how to
48:47count. Why do I care so much about this
48:50more than this? I mean, it doesn't make
48:53much sense. And I really now wanted to
48:56care more about that. The wrong thing.
48:59How do I get here? Oh, every page I open
49:02the Bible was pray for those who hate
49:05you. I'm like, oh, you don't know my
49:07enemies. They're really bad. Close the
49:09page. I will open another page. Love
49:13your enemies. Yeah, mine are terrible.
49:15Close the page. Everything is about
49:18forgive 70 times and like my own I
49:23trying to kill my mother. They tried to
49:25kill my dad. So this is not normal
49:27enemies. So I'm not going to love them
49:29or to forgive them. I just wanted to
49:31know God but without them that part of
49:34forgiving and loving your enemies. I've
49:37never heard anywhere before somebody's
49:40trying to kill your whole family and you
49:42telling me go there to forgive. I
49:46couldn't read that. But I rejoiced in
49:49just knowing God and what can happen. So
49:52that really helped. And then I said,
49:54"Okay, good. Now I have to pray." So
49:58especially in the Catholic, which I
49:59always tell my Protestant friends, you
50:02can really use the rosary because the
50:04rosary is the Bible. My father have
50:06given me the rosary and the way we pray
50:09the rosary for those who know about it.
50:11Every bead represent a prayer to say and
50:14really the rosary is the summary of the
50:17new testament the life of Christ you
50:19know thinking about some events in the
50:21bible. So I remember starting to say the
50:23rosary my father gave me because we used
50:26to say it in my family and I did. So I'm
50:29going through it. One rosary takes about
50:3125 minutes. When I prayed, it was like I
50:35moved from the bathroom to a place of
50:38air. It feels good to pray. Then I said,
50:42"Let me keep praying." I end up praying
50:45all day. I remember I prayed like 27
50:49rosaries every single day just to run
50:51away from my own poisonous mind reading
50:54the Bible and praying and meditating on
50:57these moments in the life of our Lord.
51:00So as I was praying so one rosary in one
51:03rosary it is pre-made prayers you say
51:06our lord is prayer six times in one
51:09rosary. So I said about 200 our lord is
51:14prayer every day from morning until
51:18sleep cuz I wanted to remain with god.
51:21So many things changed because now I
51:24knew the god I'm talking to looks
51:26inside. I remember just especially that
51:30prayer which is our common prayer we
51:32pray together our lord is prayer I
51:35remember going through this part that
51:36said our father now that I know I'm
51:40talking to the one who hears me and then
51:43I remember thinking our father but if I
51:47say that it will mean that you are the
51:49father of everybody but you can't be the
51:52father of the bad guys you are only the
51:56father of the fallers and people of my
51:58tribe.
51:59And then I God is so kind and so
52:02patient. I felt like something inside
52:05was telling me. Okay, let's think about
52:07that. Suppose one of your brother does
52:10wrong. Does your dad stop being their
52:13father?
52:15No. Actually, my dad will spend more
52:17time thinking about the one who did
52:19wrong more than the good one. Okay, I
52:23can take that. Okay, our father. cuz
52:26something was telling him mean it. It's
52:28the only way to speak to God when you
52:30know that he looks inside mean every
52:33word. It is only way he can also
52:36everything he say in the Bible. Those
52:37who believe all things are possible you
52:40have to believe with your heart be there
52:43know that you have done your part. So I
52:46wanted to do my part so I can count on
52:48God's promises. I can be sure that
52:51whatever I'm believing, he said, if you
52:53said this mountain to move, it will
52:55move. Then I can really be sure that I'm
52:58doing my part. I said, okay, our father
53:01of the good and the bad. That's fine.
53:04Let's keep praying. And I remember going
53:08through this part that changed
53:10everything.
53:12Forgive us our trespasses
53:16as we forgive those who trespass against
53:20us. I could not go through those words
53:24when now I can hear with my heart in my
53:27ears what I was saying. Forgive me as I
53:31forgive. So funny. I couldn't help but
53:34see the picture of all these thousands
53:36of people I hated. Anytime I go through
53:39that part, I'm like h [gasps]
53:42it was like something is telling me
53:44you're lying to God. If he have to
53:46forgive you the way you forgive, it
53:48means don't forgive me because I'm not
53:52forgiving. Some what am I going to do? I
53:54need his help. I need God to be with me.
53:57Anytime I went through that part, it was
53:59a red flag. You're lying to God. You
54:03have not forgiven them. But he knows how
54:06bad they are. What am I going to do?
54:09Well, I had a better idea. I said,
54:12"Maybe they may skip this part of the
54:14prayer."
54:17So then I don't have to lie to God. Cuz
54:20the problem was not that I need to
54:22forgive them. The problem was that I'm
54:24lying to the one my life to the one my
54:27life depends on. What happened when we
54:30lie to friends? Especially when they
54:32know we are lying to them, we lose them.
54:35So if God says he made us in his image
54:39somewhere we have something in common so
54:42you can lie to him. Tell him the truth.
54:45Okay I skip that part of the prayer. I
54:47mean it is only God I had in that
54:49bathroom. Couldn't speak to the girls.
54:51We couldn't talk. Couldn't move. We had
54:54to be like this. So it was only God. So
54:57I skipped the part and I felt so much
55:00better.
55:02No wonder why they have lie detectors.
55:05I think the body doesn't really move so
55:07good. The blood when we are lying
55:10something happened. So I feel so much
55:12better. I skip it. Forgive us. But not
55:14them. Go to the next part.
55:17And I kept praying like that.
55:20No wonder why our church I'm sure your
55:23pastor reminds you pray pray because it
55:26is really the only way to change. If we
55:28don't pray, we we are not going to
55:31change. Cuz many people we think we are
55:34right. We're okay until you start
55:37praying and the light comes in. Oh, I
55:40should change that way. Oh, I should
55:42change that too because you gave a
55:44chance to God to speak to you and to
55:47speak to him. So, I'm going through that
55:49part. I remember I was about to skip it.
55:52It was like something's nodding my
55:54shoulders. Hey, I hope you know our Lord
55:58is prayer is not man-made.
56:02He is Jesus himself who gave those
56:04words.
56:06The one you believe he's God. The one
56:09you believe cannot lie. The one you
56:11believe knows the past and the future.
56:14Not that he wills a genocide, but he
56:16knows this can happen. Look what
56:18happened to him. What do you tell him?
56:21He didn't know a genocide can happen.
56:24And if he said pray this way, he didn't
56:28say some people. He said pray this way
56:31all generations.
56:33And if he said pray this way, he made
56:35us. He knows our capacity. But it is up
56:39to us to will it or not. So I'm fighting
56:42myself. But my situation, no, no, he
56:45said pray this way. He didn't say
56:48sometimes, some situation. And if God
56:51said this, we can be here. It's up to me
56:55to believe him. If I am here, it doesn't
56:57mean that this is not possible. Who
57:00knows more? Who knows me more than him?
57:03So I realized that I wasn't there, but
57:07I'm below. And that's okay. He's God.
57:10I'm not. I can make mistakes. He cannot
57:13make mistakes. When I saw that,
57:18you know what changed my heart? I still
57:20could not forgive even then. But what
57:23changed my heart for the first time in
57:27the time I was in that place. I
57:29understood the meaning of surrendering.
57:33I went on my knees, put my hands up and
57:38I begged God. If you know how to
57:40forgive,
57:42help me out. I am willing.
57:46If you said so, I choose to trust you.
57:50You know it's possible. Even if I don't
57:52get it, but you are God. I am not. I put
57:56in his hands between us as human beings.
57:59I never thought God would ever find a
58:02way to make me forgive somebody's
58:04killing my father, my mom. But I really
58:08willed it. Okay, God. If I am asking you
58:10to protect me in the bathroom, why can't
58:13I trust you to change my heart? at least
58:15to do your will. I put in his hands. I
58:19put back the prayer, our Lord's prayer,
58:21[music] the whole prayer. Anytime I
58:23reach that part, I remind him, I have
58:26not forgiven, but it is in your hands. I
58:29am willing. I kept going through that
58:32way until one day I was meditating on a
58:37part of the rosary, which is when Jesus
58:40is dying on the cross. And I'm watching
58:43him.
58:45I'm watching his mother beneath him. My
58:48god, this must be so sad. His mother is
58:52there. I mean, I'm I'm glad my mom was
58:56not around me to see me suffering like
58:58that. And then he's on the cross. He
59:01have nails. Oh, pinch yourself. It
59:04hurts. And he has nails. And then I'm
59:08thinking, why? Why did he have to go
59:11through this? I felt like some words of
59:14his were again speaking to my heart.
59:17Because I love you. Because I cared for
59:20you. Because I wanted to save you. And
59:24beside that, I wanted you to know if you
59:26ever go through anything close to what I
59:29have gone through, if you are ever
59:32rejected, not well loved, remember I was
59:36there before you. Learn from me. How did
59:40I behave in my own pain? Did I curse
59:43people? Did I want to kill people like
59:45you're trying to do? Learn from me. Hold
59:48on to the truth to what is good and
59:51still go through pain with dignity. And
59:54as I'm watching that and hearing that my
59:58heart somehow it took away my self-pity.
1:00:03Me look how this can happen to me. Look
1:00:05what happened to the one who was pure.
1:00:07Who is God? Who am I to say how this can
1:00:10happen to me? And he loved me. You know
1:00:14the thing that happened to people when
1:00:17people tell you you're too tall, you're
1:00:20too short, you're too big, you're too
1:00:22skinny, you're too dark, you're too
1:00:24light. The worst thing when people make
1:00:27us feel small is not even that they say
1:00:31so. is that we believe them and then we
1:00:34start to hate ourself and then you want
1:00:36to hide and then you take the shame and
1:00:39you feel you're not worthy. But when I
1:00:41remember looking at Jesus dying, I said,
1:00:43"But nothing is reduced of him. He's
1:00:47still God. He's actually accomplishing
1:00:50more even when he was rejected. So it
1:00:53doesn't mean if I'm rejected that I'm
1:00:55supposed to look at myself more, he
1:00:58saved me through pain." So somehow that
1:01:01was giving me back something. But I
1:01:04remember as I'm watching again in the
1:01:05Bible thinking of that moment when he
1:01:08said forgive them father they don't know
1:01:13what they do.
1:01:16I wanted to forgive [snorts] but I am
1:01:20telling you the truth. I did not know
1:01:22how by this time. I just I wanted to do
1:01:26whatever God wanted me to do. God, how
1:01:29how do you forgive somebody's trying to
1:01:31kill everybody who look like you? Your
1:01:34parents, who is trying to kill you, God.
1:01:36Okay, fine. I will follow you. But how?
1:01:40When he say those words, when I saw them
1:01:43in the Bible meditating on that part,
1:01:45forgive them, father. They don't know
1:01:47what they do. It wasn't the first part.
1:01:50It was the second. It was like an answer
1:01:53to an equation. When you are a student,
1:01:56they teaching you one plus two is three.
1:01:58All of a sudden, you get it. Like that's
1:02:00it. They don't get it. People are trying
1:02:05to keep you. They don't even measure the
1:02:07consequences will come on them. They
1:02:10don't think of the consequences will
1:02:12come to their family, their children,
1:02:14their wives. And you think they're
1:02:17thinking about the pain they're making
1:02:18you go through. And you trying to be
1:02:21like them does not change one thing.
1:02:24You are becoming what you hate worse.
1:02:28You hate what they doing to you and yet
1:02:30you're trying to kill them and be even
1:02:31worse than them. If you have left me in
1:02:35that bathroom outside, the things were
1:02:37going through my body was my mind. I
1:02:40would be a soldier. I would trade my
1:02:42body. I would throw bombs all over the
1:02:44country and blow up everybody. That was
1:02:47the justice could have been echo what
1:02:50they were putting us through in the
1:02:52whole country. And Jesus saying you want
1:02:55to be that worse than them. Actually
1:02:58things I can't even put in practice but
1:03:00in my head I was there. And then what
1:03:03happened when we become angry,
1:03:06revengeful,
1:03:07we become hateful, we become sick. You
1:03:12think about somebody who did something
1:03:13bad to you, you hear stuns. You think
1:03:16about somebody who have hurt you, your
1:03:19blood runs. who is hurting you with your
1:03:23own thoughts and I saw it right there
1:03:26but when he said they don't get it it
1:03:30was time I said it's true why my being
1:03:35like them and wanting to be even worse
1:03:37than them and yet from what they doing
1:03:40but then how come they don't know what
1:03:42they do and yet they are smart people
1:03:44they are not sick I feel like our lord
1:03:47was saying because they don't love.
1:03:50When there's no love in the heart, not
1:03:53only them, even you, we become we don't
1:03:56know what we do. How many of us have
1:04:01said something, done something? In the
1:04:03moment you do, you feel like you're okay
1:04:05and a week later you go like what's
1:04:08wrong with me? How can I do that? How
1:04:11can I say that? That's the time you get
1:04:14it. Now, you know what you have done.
1:04:17But in the moment you did it, you didn't
1:04:19know. When I was thinking about all
1:04:22that, that's when I realized, okay, even
1:04:25a killer there is a chance they can see
1:04:29what they doing. Not maybe now, but
1:04:32later. But somehow
1:04:35I still felt that they are bad. I can
1:04:38forgive them, but they will go to hell.
1:04:42And the kind of forgiveness I had for
1:04:44them.
1:04:45And I remember I felt Jesus was showing
1:04:49me something.
1:04:51It was like the world was divided in two
1:04:54parts.
1:04:56A part of love and a part of hate. And a
1:05:00part of love where people like Mandela,
1:05:05people like Gandhi, people like Mother
1:05:08Teresa. And on the part of hate were
1:05:11people like Hitler, people who were
1:05:14causing a genocide in Rwanda, killing
1:05:16people, revenge for me, who was there
1:05:19trying to revenge if in my mind at
1:05:21least. And I felt like our Lord was
1:05:24showing me notice people who are on the
1:05:28side of love
1:05:30are people have suffered, who have known
1:05:33injustice.
1:05:35Mandela, Gandhi,
1:05:38people who have known hatred, but no
1:05:41matter what happens to them, nothing
1:05:44will change their mind to become
1:05:46hateful.
1:05:47They will die defending truth, defending
1:05:51peace, and yet they know what it feels
1:05:53like to be mistreated.
1:05:56Who do you want to stand with? And I
1:06:00want to leave that with you, too. Who do
1:06:01we want to stand with? with Hitler, be
1:06:05worse than him or stand with Mother
1:06:07Terresa, with Gandhi. When I saw that, I
1:06:11realized I wanted to be with Gandhi.
1:06:15These are the people I admire. Actually,
1:06:17I see as strong and people have
1:06:20suffered, people who spend their life
1:06:22trying to get the ones here to hear, who
1:06:25believe in the ones who have done bad,
1:06:27then they can change. When I saw that,
1:06:31that's when I start to pray for those
1:06:33who are killing us. I realized that they
1:06:37need our prayers. If we think our
1:06:39prayers has power, then send it to the
1:06:42one who is captive in the hands of the
1:06:44enemy. And when they let go, then you
1:06:48have saved not only you but so many
1:06:50other people. They could have been they
1:06:53could have hurt. When I felt that it was
1:06:56like a huge luggage was lifted,
1:06:59I couldn't think of bad anymore. I can
1:07:02smile again. And I thought if I come
1:07:05out, I'm going to be okay. As long as I
1:07:08believe it is heaven, even if people die
1:07:10in my family, it won't be end of it. I
1:07:15remember before I came out of the
1:07:17bathroom, it was about end of the three
1:07:19months. I had a dream,
1:07:22a dream about Jesus. In a dream, he told
1:07:27me, "My child, when you come outside,
1:07:32you will find out that everybody you
1:07:34left behind will be killed.
1:07:38But if you continue to trust me and to
1:07:41love me," funny, he didn't mention
1:07:43nothing about forgiveness, but later I
1:07:46realized you can't really love God
1:07:47without forgiving. When you love
1:07:50somebody, you embrace them. Especially
1:07:52God, you know he's right. And trust them
1:07:55mean you trust everything he says.
1:07:58If you continue to trust me and to love
1:08:01me,
1:08:02I will be there for you and I will do
1:08:05more for you than what your parents
1:08:08could have been able to do for you. That
1:08:10what he said in the dream. And I
1:08:12remember I jumped to God cuz I can see
1:08:15him. He was like, I can see him. He was
1:08:17skinny. There was no cross but he was
1:08:20almost like the way he was on the cross.
1:08:22He was sad like you know like the
1:08:24situation in in know the genocide. And
1:08:27after he said that I said of course if
1:08:30you can take care of me who else do I
1:08:32need in a dream when I woke up I beat
1:08:37myself. I said I said yes to that. I
1:08:41should have asked him to protect them.
1:08:43And by this time actually I found out
1:08:46later some family members were still
1:08:49alive.
1:08:50But the dream I thought was just a
1:08:52dream. Later I find out it was not just
1:08:56a dream.
1:08:58Three months later the war was over. We
1:09:00came out and the very first night I was
1:09:04in the refugee camp. I found out
1:09:07everybody I left behind was killed.
1:09:11My mom was killed.
1:09:14My dad, my two brothers, my grandma, my
1:09:19grandpa, my neighbors, my schoolmates,
1:09:24my best friends, everybody was killed. A
1:09:28million people was killed in a period of
1:09:323 months.
1:09:34Rwanda is the size of Maryland state is
1:09:39a small country. Everywhere was dead
1:09:42bodies. More than a million actually was
1:09:46killed. Everywhere was dead bodies. And
1:09:51many times I felt what do I do? You die.
1:09:55You crash when something like this
1:09:57happened. And somehow I will cry and
1:10:01just I'm dying. The home we owned,
1:10:04everything we owned was burned out. And
1:10:07I will [clears throat] feel like there
1:10:08is a giant hand of my heart, in my
1:10:10heart. Something holding me strong in my
1:10:13stomach, in my chest, reminding me,
1:10:17don't cry. Don't crush. I am with you.
1:10:21Remember me in the bathroom.
1:10:25Talk to me. Ask me for anything you
1:10:28need. And remember, the journey of your
1:10:32loved ones is over here on earth, but
1:10:36not over there. And your journey is not
1:10:40yet over. And it is up to you how you
1:10:44choose to use it. It might be one more
1:10:47day, one more week. And truly, no one of
1:10:50us here has even a guarantee to live one
1:10:53more hour, one week. Somehow we managed
1:10:56to take it for granted. But I felt like
1:10:59God was telling me whatever your journey
1:11:02remaining of your life may be maybe one
1:11:05day, one week, one year, 50 years, 60
1:11:09years, whatever that might be.
1:11:13Remember, it's up to you to use it to
1:11:15love or to hate,
1:11:19to uplift or to put down, to be kind or
1:11:23to be mean.
1:11:25And it is up to you. But if you choose
1:11:28love, remember I am with you. Ask me for
1:11:31anything you need. I will help you on
1:11:34the journey. I will literally wake up in
1:11:37the refugee camp with dust on my face
1:11:41with tears and I will just follow that
1:11:43voice inside.
1:11:45Yeah, I don't know if I'm going even to
1:11:48live until the end of the day, but if I
1:11:50do, at least let me die doing something
1:11:52good. And I would reach out to somebody,
1:11:55a mother who just lost 10 children,
1:11:58completely lost her mind. Somebody will
1:12:00be cut arm. There were many different
1:12:03type of refugee people in that camp. And
1:12:06I would just reach out to them. Even if
1:12:09the means just to ask, how can I help
1:12:12you? How are you? How can what can I do
1:12:16for you? That felt like enough for the
1:12:21day. And in evening I will pray to my
1:12:23God. I think they have done just enough
1:12:26loving little things. And to me that
1:12:29became the mot of my life. If only I can
1:12:34do one loving thing. Maybe talking to
1:12:37somebody I know God will be there for
1:12:39me. And slowly everything started to
1:12:42come. I wrote letters to God which I
1:12:45still do to this day. I would ask him I
1:12:48need a friend. I mean the good thing is
1:12:51that you can ask God anything because
1:12:53he's God. You can't ask another friend,
1:12:56I need a friend. No, God can do that.
1:12:59How we ask him on a paper, I need a
1:13:02close to change. Like a a child asking
1:13:06dad because he's only one who is there
1:13:08now. I need a pen and not a book. And to
1:13:12see the hand of God in your life when
1:13:15you have nobody. You don't have a phone
1:13:17to send a text, to send an email. You
1:13:20don't have any connection, not your
1:13:23parents, not a family member, and yet
1:13:25God still answer. That's really when you
1:13:29have a good relationship.
1:13:31When you can see, I remember just a
1:13:33little thing, one thing I had on my
1:13:36paper, I have asked God to give me. I
1:13:39wanted close to change. And a friend of
1:13:42mine who had a scholarship in Europe in
1:13:45Belgium
1:13:48send me a jeans and a t-shirt put it in
1:13:52an envelope and the letter and she said
1:13:55in the letter
1:13:57I have heard many people in our
1:13:59classmates who died but nobody yet
1:14:02confirmed to me that you are dead but if
1:14:05you are still alive you must need close
1:14:07to change.
1:14:09She put that in an envelope, gave it to
1:14:12a military person who was leaving
1:14:14Europe, coming to Rwanda to help from
1:14:16the UN. And that military end up in my
1:14:20refugee camp, which was maybe 300 of
1:14:23them in the whole country. And that same
1:14:27thing was on my paper asking God, I need
1:14:31clothes to change. And he had to speak
1:14:33to somebody, not really even speak loud,
1:14:35but make that lady send that. It was
1:14:39those times you said, "Ah, this is so
1:14:41good. I can talk to you in the hall and
1:14:45you still make something happen. All I
1:14:47need to do is just to do your will and
1:14:50to put my trust in you slowly." I mean,
1:14:53those who read left to tell and the
1:14:54second book led by faith. I wrote a lot
1:14:57about especially the miracles I saw in
1:14:59my life which we all see really when we
1:15:01pay attention. Soon after like two weeks
1:15:04later one of my thing was God I need a
1:15:07room to sleep in because we were
1:15:09sleeping on the ground not like here on
1:15:13bricks floor on the dirt you will sleep
1:15:17on the ground in the morning you remove
1:15:19stones under your cheek because they
1:15:21have not prepared for any refugee like
1:15:23that and I told God it was like almost
1:15:26God was saying and instead of
1:15:28complaining tell me what you need cuz
1:15:31you can spend your time saying I can't
1:15:33believe in him this I can't believe this
1:15:35is happening or you can say I need this
1:15:40and that was a really big journey to
1:15:42come from my complaining my let me tell
1:15:45him what I need despite of what have
1:15:47happened so I would tell him I need
1:15:50clothes and I need a home I need not I I
1:15:53just need a simple only what I needed I
1:15:56need a bedroom I need a bed sheets and I
1:16:00need a blanket I like details
1:16:03Soon after a lady came to the refugee
1:16:05camp, the most unlikely person who was
1:16:08who was actually like a handicapped
1:16:09woman without legs in Rwanda. She's in a
1:16:12wheelchair. When you are in a wheelchair
1:16:14in Rwanda, you are pushing the
1:16:16wheelchair in a dirt road. It's not like
1:16:19here you can push something and just
1:16:21goes where you want. She was covered by
1:16:24dust. And this is a lady who come and
1:16:26say, "I knew your mom and I'm going to
1:16:29take you out of this refugee camp." I'm
1:16:31like, I know I'm praying, but I don't
1:16:33know you, but I think I need to help
1:16:35you. You can't help me. She went back. I
1:16:39said, no to that. She came back next
1:16:41day, she said, I know you don't believe
1:16:43me, but for the sake of your mom, I will
1:16:46take anybody you want so that I can take
1:16:50you out of this refugee camp if that
1:16:52makes you safe. I gave her 10 people. I
1:16:55said, "Okay, you take all of us." She
1:16:57said, "Okay." She brought a car. She
1:17:00took us to the city. She actually had a
1:17:02beautiful home, gave us rooms and she
1:17:05said in the morning get up and go to
1:17:07look for a job. I just wanted to do this
1:17:09for your mother because I knew her and
1:17:12she loved me. She should have done
1:17:13something for for her. So later I mean
1:17:17the same thing has coming in this
1:17:19country. I remember 1998 it was also a
1:17:22miracle. I have got a job in the UN
1:17:25which again I wrote how everything
1:17:26happened in my book left to tell. And I
1:17:29remember before I came to this country,
1:17:31I have to go back to visit somebody who
1:17:35killed my family. And then many people
1:17:37used to tell me, you cannot forgive this
1:17:40quickly. It doesn't happen like that.
1:17:43He's going to come back to you. And I
1:17:46remember I said, let me go and see this
1:17:48person. The peace I feel, I don't want
1:17:50it to be fake. I want it to be real. I
1:17:53went to the prison. The head of the
1:17:55prison was a friend of my dad who have
1:17:57just lost five children. I remember he
1:17:59brought the man who killed my family in
1:18:01a corner. He is walking. He used to be a
1:18:04man I knew. A man like many of you who
1:18:07used to wear a suit, a good man, was a
1:18:10teacher one time, work in the government
1:18:12and now he was in a prison. And I
1:18:14remember he had one foot swelling, his
1:18:17hair was upside down, his beard have not
1:18:20shaved for 6 months. It was a terrible
1:18:23sin to see and I just broke down and
1:18:26cried. It was like Jesus was saying,
1:18:30"You see what I told you?" He could not
1:18:32have known what he was doing. And that
1:18:35what happened one of us when we act out
1:18:38of selfishness, out of anger. We put
1:18:42oursel in places we don't want to go. I
1:18:45reached out to him and I told him I
1:18:47forgave him. My heart was completely at
1:18:49peace. And why I told him I forgive him.
1:18:52It wasn't that
1:18:55it wasn't like I want him to know. I
1:18:58wanted to free him. That what was in my
1:19:00heart. I wanted him not to have me as an
1:19:03excuse for not to find himself. I wanted
1:19:08to free him to say don't think I
1:19:10murdered you. Look what I killed. I just
1:19:12wanted him to go in his heart and say
1:19:15what have I done? How can I do what I
1:19:18did? I wondered when his children come
1:19:21to see him in a prison, he can tell
1:19:23them, "Never do what I have done. Look
1:19:26at the consequences. Never hate people.
1:19:29Don't kill people." And I offered him
1:19:32forgiveness. I remember he covered his
1:19:33head. He couldn't look at me. And the
1:19:37head of the jail was very mad.
1:19:40But I left quickly. A year later, this
1:19:43man came to look for me where I was
1:19:46working at the UN, the head of the jail.
1:19:49And I told him, "I'm so sorry that day.
1:19:51I didn't remember that you lost your
1:19:52family and I forgave him." He said, "No,
1:19:55I came to thank you. I never thought
1:19:58that forgiveness was possible." This man
1:20:02revealed to me he used to beat the
1:20:04prisoners and he will go home feeling
1:20:06better. The next day he will come back
1:20:08with even more anger. beat them again to
1:20:12revenge his family, he will go back home
1:20:14again feeling better. Next morning he
1:20:16will be more angry. And he said after
1:20:19you forgave that man, the next day I
1:20:22wanted to speak to them to find out what
1:20:25they did more than beating him. And he
1:20:28said it was through speaking to them
1:20:30that I realized many were regretting and
1:20:33he was able to find his also
1:20:35forgiveness. And I was so happy and is
1:20:37really the reason I shared this story.
1:20:401998 I moved to United States in the UN
1:20:44here in New York City there not here.
1:20:49And 2006 I wrote my first book which was
1:20:52really a miracle also just through
1:20:55prayer asking God help me. You know
1:20:57people used to tell me write a book and
1:20:59I will laugh at them. I don't even speak
1:21:01English. [snorts] How can I write a book
1:21:04in English? which finally I listened to
1:21:06them and three days later I met somebody
1:21:10who actually asked me to write a book
1:21:11after I just finished it and the book
1:21:14was out. I remember two weeks later it
1:21:17was outside. It was New York Times
1:21:19bestseller. I didn't know what that
1:21:21meant but later I find out it was a big
1:21:25blessing. a blessing that allowed me to
1:21:28make a foundation that helps people in
1:21:30Rwanda where I proceed of my work goes
1:21:33to continue to help other people still
1:21:35going through those troubles but
1:21:38especially it allowed me to speak about
1:21:40my faith. People inviting me to want to
1:21:43share. I mean I never dreamed this kind
1:21:46life is possible in my childhood. You
1:21:49know here you tell children what do you
1:21:50want to do when you grow up? I would
1:21:52never have thought this was going to be.
1:21:55But somehow in a very funny way I feel
1:21:59home not only in this country but in my
1:22:02work. I always wanted to share faith to
1:22:06speak about faith to share what God is
1:22:08doing for me. And a friend of mine who
1:22:11was a Protestant she used to tell me you
1:22:14know you can be a preacher. But I said
1:22:16but I'm not I'm Catholic. We don't
1:22:19become preachers. I'm a woman by what?
1:22:23Something you still need to follow
1:22:24something because the things of God
1:22:26interest you. And finally, however God
1:22:30does things found a way for me to share
1:22:34faith and it feels good. It feels home.
1:22:38But most importantly, I know we are all
1:22:41passengers in this world. And the end
1:22:44will come for each one of us. And I
1:22:48really ask you to pray for me as I pray
1:22:51for you that we make it up there.
1:22:54Especially, of course, I want to see
1:22:57Jesus, but I want to see my family. And
1:23:00I know they died as martyrs. They died
1:23:03for what God created them to be. And
1:23:06each one of them died as they lived. My
1:23:10mom died trying to save his children.
1:23:13You heard somebody was screaming and she
1:23:16thought it was my brother. She came out
1:23:18of the hiding
1:23:19and somebody was hiding with her told me
1:23:21later like I tried to stop her and she
1:23:24said no I cannot hide if my child is
1:23:27dying and that how she died. My
1:23:32father died coming out of refugee camp.
1:23:35He said he wanted to to get food for the
1:23:38refugee people and the mayor ordered the
1:23:41soldiers to shoot him.
1:23:44So they died in a very holy way and I
1:23:47don't know if we'll have that death
1:23:49where we'll be able to prepare ourselves
1:23:52but God is almighty if we can ask him
1:23:55for anything else to protect us to give
1:23:58us food we can also ask him for
1:24:00anything. My daughter one time told me
1:24:03she's I now I have children. I I'm a
1:24:06mother. And um when she was four years
1:24:10old, she asked him one time, she said,
1:24:11"Mom, how come you don't have parents
1:24:14like everybody?"
1:24:16I told her they're in heaven. And then
1:24:18she said, "But how come they don't come
1:24:20to see you?"
1:24:23So well, when you go to heaven, you
1:24:25don't come back. But you wait there
1:24:28because we all go there. if we work
1:24:30good, if we do this and that. And she
1:24:33looked at me in tears and she said, "You
1:24:35mean you two, you're going to leave me
1:24:37and never come back to see me?" I said,
1:24:40"Well, you know, I never in my lifetime
1:24:45asked God, don't let my parents die." I
1:24:48just took it for granted. I thought they
1:24:51would be there forever. But now that we
1:24:53are concerned about that, we can ask God
1:24:55to keep us together for a long, long
1:24:57time. I remember one thing really talks
1:25:00come true. Prayers do come true. My mom
1:25:03used to say, "I just pray that I die
1:25:05when my last child who will be alive can
1:25:08help himself or herself." And when she
1:25:12died, I was in college and I was able to
1:25:15find the job. So in some ways, she got
1:25:18her wish. And truly, when you have a
1:25:20dream, you have a prayer request, say
1:25:22it. Our dear God does listen. So anyway,
1:25:25before I end, and I know I can talk
1:25:28forever. I'm sorry
1:25:31it's three months. [laughter] Well,
1:25:33before I end, I really want to thank you
1:25:36again. I want to thank you so so much
1:25:39for inviting me to share my story. Until
1:25:43I wrote the book, I didn't know how much
1:25:44was so much the same at heart. And I
1:25:47mean it when I say I'm in America and I
1:25:49feel home because I see God in you. And
1:25:55when there is love, you know you are
1:25:57one. I go to China, to Japan and people
1:26:00ask me same questions you ask me to
1:26:03South Africa, South America with so much
1:26:07the same at heart. But even if I speak
1:26:10to groups and big groups like you, I am
1:26:14aware I'm speaking to one heart to
1:26:17individuals.
1:26:19Each one of us, we have our own stories.
1:26:22We all go through our own little
1:26:25troubles and the big troubles. And I
1:26:28really want to insist on this from my
1:26:31heart to yours. No matter what happens
1:26:34to you, no matter what happens to you,
1:26:38remember there is always hope in God.
1:26:42Hold on to him. He's almighty. Scream
1:26:46his name. Don't let nothing take away
1:26:49from him and he will show himself to you
1:26:52in his way that your heart will
1:26:54recognize and acknowledge
1:26:58and especially
1:27:00I want to tell you please if I can
1:27:04forgive anyone can forgive
1:27:08and there is so much peace there
1:27:11so much freedom
1:27:14there to ask for him to help Thank you.
1:27:17Thank you again. And I hope I can take
1:27:21some of you one day to my country. I do
1:27:24take groups to visit Rwanda. Actually, I
1:27:27have t-shirts I'm raising money to give
1:27:29to people who couldn't make it to come
1:27:31and who really do need it. But I thank
1:27:34you so much for bringing me to share
1:27:37with you community.
1:27:39May God bless you.
1:27:43[applause]
1:27:52[applause]
1:28:01[applause]
1:28:08[applause]
1:28:12You can all uh be seated for just a
1:28:14minute. Um thank you so much. You don't
1:28:18need to go too far away. I'm going to um
1:28:23if you're going to hang around, there
1:28:24are lots of books and other things you
1:28:26can purchase and Immaculate will be in
1:28:29the Narthx where you can chat with her.
1:28:31I think we're going to forego the Q&A
1:28:33tonight. Um but I hope you will bear
1:28:36with me for a moment since this is the
1:28:38last event in this year's series. I do
1:28:41always feel like I have um some
1:28:44important thank yous to say. Um as I've
1:28:47said, every time that we gather, these
1:28:49events are made possible only through
1:28:51the generosity of individuals and
1:28:53organizations. Uh many of them are here
1:28:55tonight and I will lift up just a few. I
1:28:58want to thank Thrivent Financial, uh
1:29:00Productivity Inc., Greg and Lisa, um,
1:29:02Cresa, Jim and Ruth Anne, TCF Bank, Phil
1:29:06and Mona, um, Rapid Packaging,
1:29:09Mastercraft, Jeff and Patrice, uh, Bruce
1:29:12at Sparky, the Mclloren Institute and
1:29:15Luther Seminary, um, as well as all of
1:29:18the individuals you see listed on your
1:29:21um, your program. Again, many of these
1:29:24individuals are here tonight. Will you
1:29:26please help me thank them for bringing
1:29:28wonderful speakers like Immaculate?
1:29:29[applause]
1:29:34[applause]
1:29:39I also I also want to as always give a a
1:29:42great thank you to our our dear friend
1:29:44Jeff Alstead. This is the 60th event. Uh
1:29:47Jeff has been at all but maybe one or
1:29:50two of them and the one or two that he's
1:29:52missed, he's been here in spirit through
1:29:54his CDs. So Jeff, thank you my dear
1:29:57friend. Thank you very much. [applause]
1:30:03Um and then I want to thank all of you.
1:30:05You know over 12 years this series has
1:30:08put down deep roots in our community and
1:30:10our region. People have come from as far
1:30:13away as Canada and Texas, believe it or
1:30:15not. um to come to these. Just this
1:30:17evening at a little pre-event with some
1:30:19of our major donors, I shared the story
1:30:21of a gentleman who wrote from a thousand
1:30:23miles away who has listened to all of
1:30:25the podcasts from these events and
1:30:28talked about how it had changed his
1:30:30life. So, we're doing something powerful
1:30:33and important through through these
1:30:34events. And I'm so grateful that all of
1:30:37you came out on a beautiful April day to
1:30:40be present. And I hope you will tell
1:30:41other people about them and join us in
1:30:44the fall. You'll notice our uh opening
1:30:46event is on October 8th. Uh come back
1:30:49for that. We've got most of next year's
1:30:51series lined up. Um and stay in touch
1:30:54with us through Facebook or email and
1:30:56you can read more about that here. Okay.
1:30:59Immaculate. Um thank you again for being
1:31:01us with us. We give all of our speakers
1:31:03a little gift. I would like to give you
1:31:05this with our profound gratitude for
1:31:08blessing us with your presence. It's a
1:31:10piece of granite which says
1:31:14you have a very powerful story with
1:31:17thanks to Immacula Ilagiza which I
1:31:20always get that last name wrong but I
1:31:22did is that okay Immacula Ilabiza for
1:31:25bringing faith to life and we do thank
1:31:26you very much indeed so much.
1:31:28Thank you. [applause]

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