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Apprenticing Our Own Disappearance — Transcript

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0:00Hi Sandy.
0:01>> Hi Dave.
0:04>> I don't think I've seen the picture
0:05before Sandy with your red hair. It just
0:07popped on for a second when your video
0:09was in the front.
0:10>> Oh yeah, that's right. The old days.
0:16>> Very bold.
0:17>> Yeah. Well, that was also a picture that
0:21was taken probably 10 years ago.
0:23>> Really?
0:25>> You know how that is. You keep those
0:26profile picks up. the ones that are, you
0:29know, my children.
0:29>> Oh, yeah. I have a giant.
0:35>> Your hair, Sandy.
0:36>> Pardon me.
0:37>> Did you just get your hair done?
0:39>> Oh, gosh. No, I was No, thank you. It's
0:43It needs to be done, but I did curl it a
0:46little bit today.
0:47>> Right.
0:51>> See, I just dropped my AirPod. Hold on.
0:54I still have not fixed my tech from like
0:57a month ago. It's terrible.
1:00>> Well, you don't have a tech department
1:01anymore at Senova, right? So, what the
1:03hell?
1:04>> So, I procrastinate on it. I'm just
1:06like, "Oh, yeah. I got to do that. I got
1:07to do that." And then I was like,
1:08"Anyway,
1:10I'll figure it out.
1:12>> I'll get it." That's out of out of
1:14sight, out of mind until you the moment
1:16you need it again, right?
1:17>> Should have [ __ ]
1:18>> Yep.
1:20Too small to get on a list, but annoying
1:22every every time it comes up.
1:26>> On Lisa, how are the two of you doing?
1:30>> Surviving through June 30th. We're
1:32almost there.
1:33>> Right on. Six more days and seven more
1:36cucumbers.
1:40>> Resignation in hand for one of my team.
1:42We're doing great, guys. Doing great.
1:46slipped into that
1:49stick handle with a week left.
1:51>> Yeah. The you know trying to get them to
1:53stay but also happy them for them for
1:56their opportunity and it's a kind of I'm
1:59in the middle of that and I feel
2:00awkward.
2:04>> You mean yourself like in your own
2:06decision personally? Is that what you
2:07mean?
2:07>> Well, like she it's a I mean good for
2:10her. I saw her when she was this and had
2:14no confidence in the world and now she's
2:16doing a thing and I'm like but can we do
2:18the thing here
2:20way?
2:22>> Oh my god.
2:26>> That's so sincere. Lisa, how you doing?
2:28>> Yeah, doing good.
2:30>> I'm just have to jump off like halfway
2:33through.
2:34>> Okay,
2:34>> no worries. Well, we'll get right into
2:36it.
2:37Um, I know Dean can't join us today.
2:40>> And neither can Ashley.
2:42>> Oh, okay. Cool.
2:45>> Well, they must have sensed the doozy of
2:47a conversation that we were going to
2:48have today. So,
2:53>> um, excited to spend time with all of
2:55you though. Wondering maybe let's just
2:56start with some standouts from the pod
2:58conversations over the last little bit.
3:00What's been standing out to you guys
3:02from from those? Ours was just earlier
3:04this week, which was great.
3:07Um but wondering Sandy, Lisa, Don,
3:10what's been sticking with you from those
3:12conversations if anything?
3:17>> I think Rebecc revelation around
3:19receiving
3:21the the idea of you know an absence of
3:24joy can be the absence of allowing
3:26yourself to receive
3:28>> help.
3:31An interesting beast. Anyway,
3:34let's
3:35>> Yeah, that was so so lovely of her to
3:37share that perspective as we kind of
3:39talked about what parts are we hiding,
3:41right?
3:42>> And her talking about that resistance to
3:44receive and like this what that felt
3:46like and looked like, but recognizing if
3:49you can't receive
3:52that might actually be a bit of a
3:53limiter, an obstacle to to not only your
3:56joy, but the other person's joy, too,
3:57who likes to be able to give to and
3:59likes to be able to be a participant.
4:01That really stood out for me, too. I
4:04love that. Lisa, Sandy, how about you?
4:09>> You want to go first, Lisa?
4:15>> Oh, sure. Um,
4:18I think our PL discuss discussion is
4:21just joy is so much more complicated
4:23than we thought. It's a topic that's uh
4:27definitely not linear. Mhm.
4:29>> And another thing is just from your
4:31podcast, your writing, it's um
4:35for me is well
4:42how much I just taken granted for
4:45granted that uh how much I should be
4:48caring and not really recognizing
4:51um that you said, you know, you can make
4:55everything look so easy, but inside I'm
4:57actually carrying a lot that I think
5:00it's actually a barrier for myself to
5:04truly embrace or feel the the the level
5:07of joy that I can
5:09>> because I'm just focused so much on
5:11carrying everything
5:13>> uh without the acknowledgment let alone
5:16sharing with anyone that uh I am caring
5:20a lot. Yeah. It's just so much in there.
5:23The complexity of joy.
5:26>> Mhm.
5:28Yeah, it's a it's a pretty simple word
5:32with a lot of depth to it, right?
5:34>> A lot of depth to it.
5:37>> Thanks, Lisa. Sandy, how about you?
5:39What's the stand out for you?
5:43So I think we what has sparked my
5:47further contemplation
5:50>> is the discussion that we had around
5:52when
5:53you're um
5:56really excelling at something that
5:59you're skilled at. Um
6:02that you're just,
6:06you know, performing at a at a really
6:09high level. And you know, I'm in that
6:13zone now. It's been 18 months of not
6:17doing that.
6:20Um, and it just
6:23but I at the same time I don't feel like
6:26I'm missing it. I don't uh like all the
6:31things that came along with it weren't
6:32so great. But
6:36I just again wonder um is it about being
6:41or doing
6:43or
6:45cuz I can get caught up like I got a
6:48recruiter followed and it was like a big
6:49job. Oh, it's a billion dollar P&L
6:53global responsibility blah blah blah
6:55blah blah. And there was part of me like
6:57I could do that. You know what I mean?
6:58Like
6:59>> Uhhuh.
6:59>> I was like I don't want to do that.
7:03But so but it it it like pulls a it
7:09pulls that side of me. Um and I don't
7:13know like is that just in my ego saying
7:16yeah I could do that or is it that I
7:19miss performing at that kind of a level?
7:23I don't know. Um so I've been in more of
7:26a being than doing. Um,
7:30and so I'm just questioning it a little
7:33bit like could I be doing both in some
7:35way? I just don't know what the path is
7:37and I've kind of left it
7:41to
7:43the universe, God, to tell me
7:45>> like that I'll know that I'll know if
7:48there's a path I'm supposed to be
7:50taking. Mhm.
7:52>> So,
7:54and then another recruiter called like
7:56two days later
7:58and it oh at this board roll I'm like,
8:03you know, so it makes me there's
8:04something there but I I can't decide
8:07what it is that's
8:10knocking at the door or not or just
8:12tempting the old ego, Sandy, you know.
8:18>> Yeah.
8:19>> Well, it's interesting. And I mean I
8:20think we've all heard I'm sure whether
8:23it's in small little Instagram sound
8:25bites or from seminars this notion of
8:29like be do you have right I'm sure
8:32you've all kind of exposed that and and
8:34>> so a lot of times people think about
8:36this like cascade Sandy maybe just to do
8:38the quick note on it of like
8:40>> I want to have these things and until I
8:42have these things I can't do these
8:44things or be this type of person and so
8:46everybody really focuses on the
8:48achievement and the accumulation of
8:50items or as accomplishments as a way of
8:54being able to give themselves permission
8:56to be a certain someone.
8:59And the spiritual teaching and I'm
9:01oversimplifying it but uh for the sake
9:04of our time like the the real kind of
9:07reframe on it is actually if you want to
9:10have all the things you need to be the
9:13person who has it first and if you are
9:15that person you will then do the things
9:16that get you those things. So really
9:19instead of like, oh, I need to have all
9:21these things and then I can do it and
9:22then I can be that person, it's the
9:25reverse order.
9:26>> Yeah.
9:26>> Be the person that has all the
9:29abundance. Be that person and you will
9:31do the things and treat people in an
9:33abundant way. And when you do that, you
9:34will receive abundance. An
9:36oversimplification,
9:37>> but a lot of times people will wait to
9:39have abundance to do the things that you
9:41would do if you had abundance like give
9:42back or take care of other people when
9:45really that teaching is is act as if you
9:47do. behave as if you do.
9:49>> I like that. I like that. And I I think
9:52that putting the being first is is
9:56you're you're gonna have those things by
9:58being that person is if I'm
10:00understanding you
10:02>> and and that's I think what I've been
10:04trying to get at like what I just need
10:06to be quiet and calm for a while, you
10:09know,
10:11>> to know that and then have tentacles out
10:14to see what resonates.
10:17address.
10:18>> Well, it's it's neat to see how our pod
10:20conversation kind of opened that up for
10:22you in your contemplations. You know,
10:25maybe a little side note or footnote
10:27that I would offer you around that if
10:30you think about that simple cascade,
10:31right, of like being a certain type of
10:33person and now like I would say that the
10:36space that you've been taking has been
10:38to kind of recapitulate yourself and who
10:40you want to be now at this stage of your
10:41life. Mhm.
10:43>> And I'd say you're doing a really lovely
10:45job of like marinating in that and like
10:48allowing that to kind of become home in
10:50your life and not racing too quickly. I
10:53mean, the temptation is real when people
10:55call, right?
10:56>> I think what would be a neat little
10:57footnote is is you're trying to now
11:00naturally kind of ask yourself, what do
11:01I do if I'm going to be this person?
11:03Like, what does this person do now? And
11:06>> I think an interesting way of being able
11:08to help answer that question might be
11:10contemplating what is it that you want
11:12to have.
11:15>> And then yeah, because if you know what
11:17it is now going forward, if you are the
11:20person of who you are and you're in the
11:22being space and you're contemplative and
11:24starting to imagine and use your
11:26beautiful brain to envision in the
11:28future like what do you want to have
11:30materially? What do you want to be able
11:32to have? And this is where desire I
11:33think is very important. and often
11:35taught as like something you shouldn't
11:36have. I think desire is brilliant. It's
11:38very important. And for me, desire, the
11:40source of that is a much bigger divine
11:42connection. To me, it comes from God.
11:45And so, what is the thing that I want to
11:47have? And then once I'm clear on that,
11:50when things and potentialities come into
11:52the doing space, I can then start to
11:55kind of look at it through that sense of
11:56alignment, like, well, does doing that
11:59actually help me step forward and get
12:02closer to having those things or are the
12:05things that I'm being called with on the
12:07recruiter calls actually just going to
12:09bring me forward to things that I've
12:10historically had and maybe are not
12:12necessarily what I want now going
12:14forward.
12:14>> Okay. So, as far as like helping you
12:16maybe
12:18>> um go beyond the being piece of where
12:19you are, I think it'd be cool just to
12:22allow yourself to dream a little bit.
12:24>> What is it that I want to have? What do
12:26I desire? Right? And those doing pieces,
12:29those opportunities, it becomes an
12:31interesting point of reference. Does
12:32that make sense? Is that helpful?
12:35>> It does. It it does. I mean, it's maybe
12:38what I need to do is spend more time
12:40actually thinking and writing about
12:42that, answering those questions, right?
12:45Because I can kind of like off the top
12:47of my head go, "Oh, no. It's not it's
12:49not money. It's not this." You know what
12:51I mean? But, you know, I I think it's I
12:56feel that we've all been given these
12:59skills, blessings, God-given skills, and
13:04am I really using those as I should be?
13:06That's
13:08>> Yeah,
13:08>> that's part of my question is just to
13:10your point, in what way to
13:14have the things I want?
13:16>> Yeah. And and um I'm mindful that not
13:18everybody on our call here was in our
13:20pod call. So I'll just make this comment
13:21very briefly, but as we were talking
13:23about Michael's appreciation for his
13:26creative space and being able to receive
13:28and to be into that wide open kind of
13:30canvas, I might just point out an offer
13:33that this could be something worth
13:34taking into a space like that where you
13:36are away and you are in stillness, you
13:38are in solitude long enough
13:40>> to start actually hearing or being in a
13:42conversation with God. So, um, could be
13:46an interesting thing to to pin. You're
13:48welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.
13:49Jenny, how about you? What, uh,
13:51>> what stood out to you from your your pod
13:53conversation? And I think Rebecca just
13:54popped in, too. She might be kind of
13:56driving or or doing some some
13:59co-piloting. So, hi Rebecca. Just
14:01acknowledging that you're here. No need
14:02to pop in if you're tied up. But Jenny,
14:04standouts for you and your pod
14:06conversation. Um, I think there were a
14:08couple things that really intrigued me
14:11and into deeper thought too. One of them
14:14was around the experience of other
14:17people's joy and how much how difficult
14:20joy can actually be with other people
14:23when we're, you know, when we're either
14:27feeling joy and the other person is not
14:31or vice versa. and how those things
14:33interplay and even like the jealousy
14:35component that can come with joy. Um,
14:40and also just the experience of of joy
14:43in struggle. Um, we talked a little bit
14:46about the joy of showing up the way you
14:49want to be showing up in situations that
14:52are struggle. Um, and understanding like
14:56a deeper definition of joy that way. And
14:59so I was doing some some thinking and um
15:03about that afterwards and I I really I
15:07feel that that deeper sense of joy. And
15:09and one of the definitions that I found
15:11that I really liked was that joy is a a
15:15deeper affirmation of life that can
15:17coexist with difficulty versus something
15:21like pleasure, happiness, like positive
15:23circumstances, happiness, you know,
15:25pleasure, feeling good, which I think is
15:27actually the thing that rubs in
15:30circumstances, difficulty like
15:32difficultly with other people. Do you
15:34know if somebody's struggling and you
15:36come with happiness which is like oh my
15:38all my external circumstances are great
15:40and I'm happy versus joy which is like
15:43the deeper affirmation that you can live
15:47your life to its fullest while
15:49simultaneously
15:51feeling difficulty and suffering um and
15:55being with that in a in a more joyful
15:57way. So I that's kind of where my mind
15:59went after pod conversation exploring
16:02those different branches and
16:04understanding how you can find and be
16:07with more joy even when the
16:09circumstances are not not favorable.
16:12It's hard for me like if you know Dave
16:13if you're upset with me about something
16:15like that is a really hard time for me
16:17to find
16:18joy but something I'm really working on
16:21and I know can be there in if I I'm just
16:25working with the fabric of that like
16:27reclaiming some of that cuz I can be
16:28very sensitive to the people I love most
16:31and um you know if they're not doing
16:34well but especially if they're not happy
16:36with me you know and I seem to be the
16:39source of the the pain. Um, I think
16:43there is a way to be with that struggle
16:46in joy, too. For me, I just I'm working
16:49on that. Um, you know,
16:53>> that's where I I went.
16:56>> Well, thanks for I can see everybody
16:59kind of nodded along there. I think
17:00Don's scribbling down some notes, right?
17:03>> Anything? Anybody want to just add add
17:05some thoughts on that or that's that's
17:07really thoughtful, Jen? Like the
17:08discernment between happiness and joy,
17:10but being able to the question, can we
17:14experience joy in those types of
17:16environments where somebody might not be
17:19happy with us, right? And we're actually
17:20the one that might be causing discomfort
17:23or displeasure for someone else.
17:27>> Don, Sandy, Lisa, anything you want to
17:29share or add on to that? Thanks, Don.
17:32I think about it from the perspective of
17:34like compartmentalizing
17:36I don't know I compartmentalize my
17:38stress why can't I compartmentalize the
17:42joy like I think we automatically even
17:44now like we're talking about joy to be
17:46honest throw a negative content every
17:49time so we always have that ability to
17:52kind of you know we can we can shift it
17:56really easily to be you know what's not
17:59joyful or what's impeding my joy as
18:01opposed to what's bringing like I think
18:03I can even answer the question of what
18:05doesn't bring me joy faster than I can
18:07answer the what brings me joy question.
18:10>> Um
18:11and when I listen to that I think about
18:13okay yeah joy while others aren't happy
18:16but like why can't you compartmentalize
18:19your joy and so you know that that's a
18:22them problem.
18:25>> Mhm. Like even when someone you're most
18:28love with is, you know, upset with you,
18:30the reality is that's a man problem, not
18:31a you problem is the reality.
18:33>> Yeah.
18:34>> Right. So when you think about the truth
18:36of it, it's that's a Ben problem, not a
18:38you. So how do you just stay in your
18:40lane and let that happen
18:43>> however it's going to happen?
18:44>> How do you come back to the pathway of
18:46your own truth? Right. Which is Yeah,
18:49absolutely. And that's where nervous
18:51system capacity to me is what
18:53immediately comes top of mind when you
18:55say that.
18:56>> I think that's the hard work, right? And
18:58Jen, to your point of being able to find
19:00our own personal edge or pathway of joy
19:02in those types of moments,
19:04>> being able to name the truth cleanly,
19:07honor the capacity we have, and like
19:09come back to that and hold both of
19:10those. Like you can be frustrated and I
19:13can be a part of that, and I'm also
19:15still joyful, and I'm mostly joyful for
19:16the fact that I can actually find joy in
19:18this. like it's not lost on me the meta
19:21nature of the right but
19:23>> that's really thoughtful
19:25>> yeah I think of um you know one question
19:29that Dave and I came to when we were
19:31talking about some of all of these
19:33pieces recently is you know what am I
19:36what am I afraid of losing in these
19:38situations I think that question really
19:40does lead me to another place of joy
19:44which is you know if I use that example
19:46you're upset with me about something
19:48that I feel I do or do not deserve.
19:51Whatever doesn't matter. You know what
19:53I'm afraid of losing in that situation
19:56is admiration from you and you thinking
19:59that I'm, you know, all the things that
20:01I want you to think I am. But there's
20:03such a joy when I really think about it
20:06in releasing that in that being okay for
20:09you not to admire me in that moment or
20:12in that way. I think there's like the
20:15joy for me is in in releasing the thing
20:17that I'm afraid of in that moment or
20:20accepting it and just being okay with my
20:23own, you know, getting back to my own
20:26attunement and my own respect for myself
20:29versus the external need for you to
20:32admire me in that way. Um, I think is
20:35for me a very powerful source of joy.
20:37Like I think there can be a lot of joy
20:39found in
20:41that stress of that moment. If when I
20:44know what I'm I'm afraid of losing, you
20:47know, when I know what that thing is,
20:49then I can kind of reclaim it as my own.
20:53Does that make sense? Sorry, that's a
20:55bit of a tangent, but I feel like that
20:57for me is a big
21:00um
21:01a big piece of that
21:04and that totally makes sense to me. And
21:06especially when you like uh I don't know
21:10one of the things that um comes to mind
21:12to me is this like scale of
21:14consciousness that this guy I follow
21:16developed where it's got kind of the
21:18negative
21:19feelings like the guilt, the anger that
21:21those and then you have the higher
21:24feelings and letting go of those
21:27negative ones may be just noticing it
21:30like you said like I just noticed this
21:32is how I feel. And part of even noticing
21:35and being aware is it starts to
21:37diminish. But and you said or accepting
21:40it or I think it's or do am I going to
21:42change it, you know, because it's like I
21:45noticed it. Okay, that helped dilute it
21:47a little bit. But now that's the way
21:50it's going to be. That's me. That's my
21:52truth. Or you know what? I could I could
21:54get better at that. I want to work on
21:56it. Um, like any of those options I
21:59think get to that what you're saying
22:02like all those paths could take you to a
22:05higher
22:07>> a higher feeling of joy.
22:09>> Yeah.
22:09>> Yeah. But it's so hard in that moment to
22:13recognize all that stuff. But the more
22:15you do it, the more it becomes a
22:16practice. I guess I mean
22:18>> it does.
22:19>> For me, it sounds like it's your
22:20knowing. you you know that and you've
22:22done it and you've practiced it and
22:24that's that's why you can talk about it
22:27in that way.
22:28>> Well, and I think that's where like your
22:31point of practicing it, I think that's
22:33where some of the deeper profound senses
22:35from like a human development
22:36perspective and where joy can really be
22:38experienced is catching ourselves
22:40forgetting that and then remembering it
22:41again
22:43>> again. Right. That's I think the nature
22:45of it. And you know, Jen, to your point
22:48around admiration and what you're afraid
22:49of losing, you know, one of the big
22:52truths that we talked about a year ago
22:54together was this notion of like
22:56impermanence.
22:58And as much as you'd like to keep
23:00admiration from me or from your friends
23:02or from your clients, guess what? At
23:05some point in time, you are going to
23:07lose it.
23:09Like it's definitely going.
23:12>> Mhm. So the admiration that we're trying
23:14to hold on to, I think the the the
23:17desire to hold on to that, to fight for
23:19that, I think in many ways is trying to
23:21resist a bigger truth that is always
23:24with us anyway, which is that admiration
23:26we're trying to hold on to is going to
23:30leave us. It will be the sand castle
23:32that eventually comes in and the tide
23:35takes it away. And I think it's an
23:37interesting segue into what we'll talk a
23:39little bit about today. And that I think
23:40what we're experiencing a bit more of a
23:42micro level there is our resistance to
23:44our own death. Isn't that true?
23:50>> Mhm.
23:51>> And I think that's where the ego kicks
23:53up and it starts to fight. It starts to
23:55defend against this desire not to lose
23:57that. And that's why it's so important I
24:00think that we revisit and and have a
24:02really healthy relationship with the
24:04true impermanent nature of all the
24:06things that we have.
24:08Right? It's important to be able to
24:12let go of things like admiration or the
24:15way that we play different roles for for
24:17people in our life. I mean, I think Jen
24:19about you with Quinn and the remarkable
24:20job you've done as a parent for her to
24:22get to a spot where tonight she's
24:23literally graduating high school. You
24:25guys I mean, you look beautiful. You're
24:26getting all dressed. You're going to
24:27graduation tonight.
24:28>> How fun.
24:29>> Mhm. And in many ways, like hidden
24:32behind this ceremony is a more subtle
24:35transition that she's and you are going
24:37through right now, which is the way that
24:40she admired your involvement in the way
24:43that you helped her navigate the jug
24:45struggles in her life. Right now, as
24:47she's becoming a young adult, like she's
24:49pushing away further. She doesn't want
24:50involvement. And if we don't actually
24:53allow ourselves to embrace the death of
24:55that stage of that relationship, we're
24:58going to continue to fight to play a
25:00role in someone's life that is just
25:02contextually no longer appropriate and
25:05is actually holding them back from
25:06developing the individual sovereignty to
25:09be able to hold the pressure and
25:10challenges of the world on their own.
25:13And it's holding us back from moving
25:14into the new birth and the new chapter
25:16of the new iteration of the relationship
25:19with somebody that's so close to us.
25:20behind the scenes. It's this desire to
25:23not lose the admiration when eventually
25:26we're going to anyway. And by holding on
25:28to that
25:31and defending against that, defending
25:34against the death of that, I think
25:36ultimately becomes a limiter on the
25:38amount of joy that we can experience
25:40with that person in the next stage going
25:42forward.
25:44>> And that's a big part of truth walking,
25:46right? is stewardship, is understanding
25:48the seasonal nature of life and where we
25:50are and allowing things to die and be
25:52reborn. I mean, that's why forests are
25:54so [ __ ] beautiful. They're constantly
25:55dying. Constantly,
25:59>> right?
26:00But one thing that we have that's very
26:02unique to all these things where it
26:04happens so naturally is this thing
26:05called our [ __ ] brain. God love it.
26:09But my goodness, right? It can really be
26:13an obstacle to some of that.
26:16So, Jen, your point around the
26:17definition of joy, do you mind just
26:19reading that again
26:23>> or stating it again if you have it?
26:25>> Yeah.
26:27>> Yeah. A
26:31deeper affirmation of life that are you
26:35Hello.
26:35>> No, we're good. We're all here.
26:37>> Oh, yeah. Um,
26:39>> yeah. Yeah. Okay.
26:43>> There's a bit of a Houdini. Oh, there we
26:44go.
26:45>> In and out. So, I think you wanted the
26:48definition of joy. Is that right?
26:50>> Yeah. How you said it, please? That
26:52would be
26:53>> Yeah. Um, a deep Okay. A deeper
26:56affirmation of life that can coexist
26:59with difficulty is that definition. But
27:02I I kind of think about it even deeper
27:03like that can coexist with death in its
27:08definition. Not just death of your body,
27:10but death of
27:12stages, death of hopes, death of, you
27:15know, all the different pieces that that
27:17we could call a death and a rebirth.
27:24>> Well, I love that because it it clearly
27:27draws a distinction between happiness
27:28and joy, doesn't it? And it not being
27:30mutually exclusive to things going well.
27:32Now, to your point earlier, right?
27:36And I just really love the word
27:38affirmation when it comes to joy. Like
27:40what is joy? It's an affirmation that I
27:43don't know why that really resonates
27:45with me more than a state or a you know
27:48something
27:48>> an affation of what how do you how do
27:51you what comes to mind?
27:53>> I mean in this definition an affirmation
27:55of life is what they're they like that I
27:59that I really resonated with.
28:02>> Mhm. Well, there's a if I can, I'd love
28:05to share a quick story um because what
28:06we're going to talk about today, but
28:08it's not like really clear is we're
28:10start to transition our conversation
28:11into the direct conversation around
28:13death and the relevancy that it has
28:15around joy.
28:18>> Um Jen, I know when we were talking
28:20about this, this is a topic in general
28:22around death and around mortality that I
28:24think a lot of us like to keep more than
28:26an arms length away. Sometimes it's like
28:28maybe three or four arms length or like
28:30a whole room or like whatever we can
28:35>> e away
28:37like worlds away, right? I've been
28:39wanting to watch that movie Come See Me
28:41in the Good in the Good Light for like
28:44many many many months and I'm afraid I
28:48keep putting it off because I'm she
28:50Andrea is such a beautiful poet and it's
28:52just so I don't know my soul is ready
28:56anyway. So arms length
28:59for me.
29:00>> I think Rebecca wants to say something
29:02here.
29:03>> Watch it, Jen. Watch it tonight. Yeah,
29:08even
29:10>> it'll be worth it. I promise it'll be
29:12good. But just like being walk over and
29:17over again and it won't hurt. It would
29:19it may hurt actually, but I would
29:21encourage you not to um avoid the child
29:25from it. It's really it so beautiful.
29:28Yeah. It's just and it's a beautiful
29:29love story between
29:32>> um Andrea and her partner. It's just
29:34extraordinary to death. Yeah, we got it
29:37on the plane when I was flying home and
29:38I was like, "Nope, back to
29:42>> That's weird. The screen The screen
29:43doesn't work when I hit that one."
29:45That's so bizarre.
29:46>> Nobody wants the ugly cry on the place.
29:50Well,
29:53if there's like more
30:00then check
30:03that what's so incredible about it is
30:05there is this
30:09between the joy and the grief like it's
30:11shook and that it's that kind have a
30:14perfect
30:16documentary for what we're talking about
30:18right now at a lot of like where they're
30:20like this it all be and what they do
30:25together as a couple and and their
30:27journey and it's just
30:30um and it I mean like there's some
30:32really things that happen in it that are
30:35cool to see extremely bad too and pretty
30:40good so
30:45that you Don't jump jump.
30:50>> We'll have to just make sure we put the
30:52the title of that in our little in our
30:54little group chat so that way we can we
30:57can all maybe use a bit of a a side
31:00reading on
31:02>> to a point just around like being able
31:04to
31:06um experience joy in the painful side of
31:10things. I mean, I think it's the the
31:12easy question is is what does joy look
31:14like when things are going good and and
31:16pleasure is good? Rebecca, if it's okay
31:18for you, I just hear some static on your
31:19side. I'm just going to mute you if
31:20that's okay. Um, unmute yourself if you
31:23need to. Oh, there you go. Perfect. You
31:24rock. Um, you know, it's easy. It's like
31:29a fast ball right over home plate. Joy
31:31in pleasurable moments that things are
31:33going good. The harder work, right, is
31:35in the pain piece. And I want to share a
31:38quick story as a bit of a transition
31:39into this topic. Um that happened on
31:41Friday last week. Um so Jenny left on
31:46what day did you leave Jenny? Thursday
31:48that really matters.
31:49>> Um
31:50>> but nevertheless after she left it's
31:52been pretty quiet around here. Uh it's
31:54just me, Caleb, but admittedly like
31:57kid's been gone having a blast as he
31:59should be. And so it's been me and Mango
32:02quite a bit. And on Friday night, I was
32:06actually for a couple days leading up to
32:07this, I've been kind of contemplating
32:09sitting with some medicine alone. And
32:12what I mean by medicine, there's lots of
32:14different forms of psychedelics, but
32:15specifically with MDMA I was thinking of
32:17sitting down with, I did this last
32:19summer with Jennifer in Colorado um in a
32:23really beautiful environment. And I know
32:24most people have an association with
32:26MDMA for raves, parties. It's tons of
32:29fun for that as well. that's never in
32:32the last little bit been um my interest
32:35around it far more for like a
32:36therapeutic or more intimate kind of
32:40reflective contemplative type of state.
32:42And if you're not familiar with this,
32:43like MDMA is now being used in a lot of
32:47brilliant medical settings right now to
32:49be able to help with PTSD, mental health
32:52work. um in Canada it's very very common
32:54and popular and available right now in
32:56the province of Alberta and across the
32:59states it's even more readily available.
33:02So, nevertheless, on Friday night, um I
33:04decided to embark on a little solo
33:06journey
33:08and uh and pretty much shut the blinds
33:10in the house, turn the lights down low,
33:13and um one of the things that I really
33:16love to do with this after the first
33:18hour kind of passes by and you're
33:19starting to feel the effects of it,
33:21which if you're not familiar,
33:22effectively like dumps serotonin in the
33:24brain and in the body, which is very
33:27much, it's not like a hallucination. It
33:30is a heart-c centered like very very
33:32compassionate experience that allows us
33:35to be able to walk a lot closer to
33:38difficult topics without getting scared
33:40away if that makes sense. A bit of an
33:42oversimplification.
33:45So I have this beautiful track that I
33:47love to listen to this playlist and I
33:49hopped in bed at like six o'clock on
33:51Friday and for the next like three hours
33:53by myself put this music on and just
33:55allowed myself to kind of see what was
33:57moving through me. And death has been on
34:00my doorstep in a variety of different
34:01ways over the last few months. And it
34:04was interesting because this was just
34:06what kept coming to me the whole entire
34:08time in such a beautiful way where I was
34:10able to almost do like an inventory of
34:12all the people that I love so dearly and
34:15in many ways like go right up to the
34:17feelings of what I would be confronting
34:19when I lose them. in a way that
34:21truthfully like in my own sober state
34:23like I'm more like you, Don. Like I
34:25maybe not like a couple worlds away, but
34:27like I I keep those at at bay,
34:29especially things like William
34:32and Jenny and Caleb and Quinn and my mom
34:35and all those types of pieces. But there
34:38was a moment um I kind of popped up from
34:40my slumber. This was top of mind. And I
34:42go to the rooftop. Um, and I was just
34:45sitting there by myself looking at the
34:47birds in the sky around sunset with
34:49Mango.
34:50And as I had my hand on Mango, it was
34:53just me and her here right now. She's
34:55the she's Travis. She's almost 7 years
34:58old. And I'm sitting there and I'm sorry
35:00I'm reminding myself now this experience
35:03quite viscerally.
35:05I'm sitting there and I really start to
35:07just recognize that like I have less
35:09than 5 years probably with her
35:12and I'm sitting there just like doing a
35:14bit of an inventory of all the days that
35:16we've been here in Spain where I just
35:18walked past her
35:21and I don't actually lie on the ground
35:23with her and enjoy tickling her belly as
35:26much as I'd like.
35:28And it was interesting because like an
35:30hour and a half zoomed by of me sitting
35:32on the rooftop up here with Mango where
35:35it was probably one of the most joyful
35:36experiences I've had with her. And it
35:39was because I spent the entire time
35:41sitting right beside the reality that
35:43I'm going to lose her.
35:48And I know this isn't a child,
35:52but she's pretty much my little fur
35:53baby, you know? And it's it's one of
35:56those things that you kind of just sit
35:57with. Then I started to realize like
35:59this is not pleasurable. This like but
36:02boy is this joyful.
36:05To be able to really visit the honest
36:08like temporary nature of the time that I
36:10have with her all of a sudden allowed me
36:13to experience a level of joy that was
36:15just unlike anything I've experienced
36:17with her in years.
36:20And for me, as I've been kind of
36:22debriefing this and sitting with this
36:23experience, I mean, there was a number
36:25of different like focal points for this
36:27theme around death that was I was just
36:28sitting with so intimately on Friday
36:30night. When I was looking at all of them
36:33over the last few days, it was just
36:34dawning on me that like when it comes to
36:37really deeply deeply experiencing the
36:41greatest moments of joy in my life
36:43personally,
36:45it doesn't come without
36:48a requirement of understanding the
36:52inevitable death that's going to be
36:53right beside it.
36:55And I think the closer I experience joy,
36:58like really really really really
36:59experience it to the fullest.
37:02Part of the reason why I don't sometimes
37:04is because I know that it's going to
37:06leave.
37:07And what would I do if I actually had
37:10this experience of full joy with someone
37:14because I would know like how would I
37:16handle and how would I process losing
37:17this?
37:21And so I think this is a really
37:22important part of like a slow a slow
37:25part of of at least this group and and
37:28people who are doing this work in the
37:30world of us really maturing in life is
37:34learning to develop a really healthy
37:36relationship with death.
37:39Because to be able to really experience
37:41joy, real deep joy, I think we have to
37:45understand death and our own
37:48disappearance.
37:51the inevitable disappearance that's
37:52going to happen.
37:54And for me, once I connect with that,
37:56you know, I've said before that
37:57beautiful quote that I love, like beyond
37:59the field of right doing and wrongdoing,
38:01there's another field. I'll meet you
38:02there. I'm like, "Oh my gosh." Like,
38:05when I remind myself of my own
38:08disappearance and conflicts with Jen or
38:11moments where, you know, we're going
38:13through the harder parts of life, I'm
38:15reminded of the limited time that I have
38:18in this. And it is just such a beautiful
38:20way of being able to really experience a
38:22different level of joy in those moments
38:25that typically is not accessible when I
38:27don't honor death as an important part
38:30of the joy equation.
38:32So I do believe that there's no
38:34experiencing the greatest forms of joy
38:36without coming to understand our own
38:38relationship with death. And I'd like to
38:41invite us and I'd like to guide us over
38:43the next few weeks to like really be
38:45thinking about this and actually
38:47exploring this and walking in a little
38:48bit closer than we have historically cuz
38:51I think a true heartfelt participation
38:54with our life and with our own joy like
38:56it comes with understanding that it's
38:58all going to slip away. It comes with
39:01that when I have that front and center.
39:04Holy [ __ ] do I love in a different way,
39:08you know, and I was reminded of that and
39:10of course supported through a lovely
39:11medicine like MDMA to like really be
39:14able to get right beside that and not
39:16for like 2 minutes, for like a long time
39:19to sit there long enough to really allow
39:21that to to put its fingerprint on me
39:24that evening and something that I just
39:26do not want to forget. But it made me
39:28think about all of you ladies so much.
39:33All of you so much. You know,
39:36admittedly, I was thinking about Naen's
39:37story. Remember we were talking about
39:39like the things we love to do where we
39:41experience joy and like being in the car
39:43with our kids and spontaneously going to
39:45do that. It's like my gosh,
39:50I could imagine like doing that all the
39:52time and being in that peak experience.
39:54That's tough to be there because we know
39:56that like that's not going to be there
39:57forever. We only have a few short
39:59moments like that. But what a shame it
40:02is to be afraid of that death because
40:04then I think in many ways we actually
40:06defend ourselves
40:09from having to experience the truth of
40:11the fact that that is going to happen.
40:12Our own disappearance is going to take
40:14place. we defend ourselves against that
40:16at the cost of joy instead of developing
40:20a really healthy, honest, good
40:23relationship with our own death. And I
40:25think that's a big part of maturing.
40:29So when I think about
40:32some of the littleer examples and that
40:35we're kind of all kind of talking about
40:36day-to-day and not literally I don't
40:38mean that in a condescending way more in
40:40a what I mean is like a practical
40:41examples of where we're experiencing joy
40:43or not or struggling.
40:47It's almost like we are
40:48apprenticeshiping our own disappearance
40:51in many ways, you know, and these
40:54smaller examples of like, oh my gosh,
40:56like Dave doesn't have a lot of
40:58admiration for me right now.
41:00I'm going to actually choose to continue
41:02to experience joy because like that is
41:04going to disappear. And this is me
41:06apprenticeshipping the inevitable
41:07disappearance of your admiration for me.
41:10And now all of a sudden I can experience
41:12joy when I'm able to recognize the
41:15opportunity that I have to be able to
41:17bring that center into the conversation
41:19into my experience.
41:25Does this make sense to everybody? I
41:26know this is a bit of a heavy topic, but
41:32Jen, do you want to add anything?
41:36only just that when I when I do get
41:38close to like death or think when I
41:41carry that with me as like a a companion
41:45I suppose like the the reality of that
41:49um for me it it provides a context I
41:53guess where
41:55I can really ask like is this worth my
41:58joy is this worth giving up my joy for
42:01is this worth it and and nothing there's
42:03very little that actually feels worth
42:07giving up my affirmation of life my like
42:11that real feeling
42:13when I consciously am with the idea that
42:19it's not forever you know I there's only
42:21so many chances to do each of the things
42:25in life and so with that I exper I
42:28definitely experience a much higher
42:30amount of joy because it really feels
42:33feels like nothing else is really worth
42:35giving that up for.
42:37>> I guess
42:38>> that's so well said. And you know
42:39there's there's a beautiful quote um
42:44live
42:46to the point of tears.
42:51>> And I think like living to the point of
42:52tears is both like it's it's a part of
42:55the joy that comes from understanding
42:57like the loss that is right in front of
42:59us
43:00and that we defend ourselves from seeing
43:03Mhm. But
43:04>> when we talk about joy and like really
43:06experiencing
43:08that affirmation of life and the deep
43:10joy, we're not talking about happiness.
43:12I think that's very clear now where we
43:13are in this conversation.
43:17>> You know, Dave, I've also heard a theory
43:20of at the bottom of every fear is the
43:23fear of death. So like you walk through
43:26the wise, right? Well, you know, I'm
43:29afraid I'm going to lose my job, but
43:30what happens if you lose your job? Well,
43:32then I won't have money. Well, what if
43:33you don't have money? Well, then I won't
43:34have my house. I won't be able to do my
43:36mortgage and then I'll be homeless and
43:40then I won't have food and then what?
43:42And then what? And then I die.
43:44>> Yeah. Right.
43:44>> Yeah. Absolutely. And
43:46>> and and I I love how you bring that up
43:49because you know, one of the things that
43:51stayed with me since our call earlier
43:52this week was like your beautiful share
43:54in our pod about your fear of the
43:57impermanence of your relationship with
43:59Michael.
44:00>> Yep. and how we were you were talking
44:03about struggling to find a place where
44:05you found yourself hiding. And I've been
44:06thinking about that a lot because it's
44:09like categorically we know that like I
44:10want more intimacy or I kind of want to
44:12know like what's going on a little bit
44:14more and be in the loop for lack of
44:16better words. And that's a thing, but
44:18there's when it comes to like showing
44:20our truth or allowing it to be seen,
44:22it's not always these big like boom,
44:24here's something new. I think sometimes
44:26it's like, no, here's a little bit more
44:29exposure of the fear that I have around
44:30this. And I loved what you said, which
44:32was like, I'm I'm afraid that at this
44:34stage in life, we might get to a spot
44:37where one of us leaves before we've
44:40experienced the intimacy that I feel
44:42like we can and deserve.
44:44>> Whoa. Like, now it changes the
44:46conversation. And as you said, it
44:49actually brought Michael in in a really
44:51beautiful way that was different than
44:54I'll tell you what's going on and lube
44:56me in, right? It just becomes very
44:58categorically
45:00unique,
45:02>> you know, very unique.
45:06>> Jen, you had a question that we wanted
45:08to ask here just to kind of because
45:10today we weren't going to go too far
45:12into the deep end on death. It's going
45:13to be something we're going to kind of
45:15build into and crescendo into.
45:18um if it's not obvious, we have some
45:20time together in person, which is a real
45:22gift. And I think we're going to be able
45:24to um use that space really
45:27appropriately to to wait into this into
45:30a really good way. But we wanted to
45:32start the conversation
45:35going into that time here in July. Um
45:39and again, all of this being central to
45:41joy, right? and its relationship with
45:44joy and the equation of that. Jen, your
45:47question, how did you want to to think
45:50about this?
45:52>> I'm I'm trying to think of what my
45:53specific question was. Do you know it
45:56what the question was that we were
45:58talking about? I can't uh I don't have
46:01it written down that I what I had said.
46:04>> Yeah. Well, I think you kind of shared a
46:06little bit earlier, but you know, one of
46:09the things where we had talked about
46:10wanting to experience more joy.
46:14>> Mhm.
46:15>> We've been talking about that as a group
46:17and I think everybody's kind of got
46:19clear on where that is. Your question
46:22that I really liked was what are you
46:24afraid of losing? M
46:29>> and I think your example of admiration
46:32in that particular context and example
46:34you gave
46:36was really really good because it wasn't
46:38like well I'm afraid of losing you it's
46:40like well no [ __ ] no but it's like at a
46:43deeper level like what is the thing that
46:45you're fighting to hold on to there
46:47right admiration I think was a great
46:49example of that
46:54>> you know
46:55So that was the question that perhaps we
46:58can each just you can get a moment to
47:00take to journal on it, right? Or I mean
47:02the one thing I love about this is kind
47:04of work in real time together which is
47:06just the best. Um
47:10>> curious like when you think about where
47:11you want to experience more joy and
47:14maybe Don to your point of allowing
47:17ourselves to artamentalize or maybe
47:19maintain joy in the presence of
47:21discomfort and tension
47:23when we think about that place in our
47:25life and what matters to us
47:30what is the death that we're trying to
47:32defend against or what is the thing that
47:34we are afraid of losing
47:44You know, I can go first if it's
47:45helpful. Just kind of working in real
47:47time on this. I have not thought this
47:49out loud or even quite frankly thought
47:50about it until just now. But J, we were
47:53kind of talking about you wanting to
47:55better understand like and me wanting to
47:57be more understood by you. Um, and not
48:01just you, I think people in general, but
48:03in our relationship at times, wanting to
48:05feel more understood of like the weight
48:07that's kind of carried around that
48:10I think a big part of like what I'm
48:12afraid of losing there
48:15is
48:16ever since I was little, I've learned to
48:19decorate my life with positive
48:20affirmation as a way of being able to
48:22navigate, to create, to be able to like
48:25keep myself away from like the gully in
48:28the bowl of like getting down into
48:30negative thought and looping and and
48:33ultimately kind of sabotaging my own
48:35self-confidence and momentum to get to
48:37where I'm going for the last 30 plus
48:40years. Like that's worked really really
48:41really really well. Um and it continues
48:44to work well for me for all intents and
48:46purposes. So what I'm afraid of losing
48:49by bringing you into that conversation
48:52is the momentum and the trust that I
48:54have in my own creative process. I'm
48:56afraid of being able to lose the ability
48:58to do what I do and how I do it. I'm
49:01afraid it won't keep working.
49:06Does that make sense to everybody?
49:07That's just real time. Sorry. I got as
49:09I'm answer I'm asking the question now
49:10trying to answer it
49:12>> as you're thinking.
49:14>> But like I'm afraid of losing that.
49:19Then to Sandy's point, like why why why
49:21like of course having means, having
49:23resources, being able to take care of
49:24myself, being protected, having enough,
49:26like all of that of course comes down to
49:28my own disappearance. But when I think
49:31about about that and like the concern
49:34about that, the fear of that, you know,
49:37if I think about my moments where I
49:38actually disappear and lose all of that,
49:40I would rather apprenticeship that right
49:42now and get used to letting go of that
49:45now so that when that happens, I don't
49:46go out of this world with my [ __ ]
49:48claws out.
49:50>> You know what I mean?
49:52So that's that's what I'm would be
49:54afraid of losing if I had to answer the
49:56question today.
49:58losing the losing the the the process
50:02that I built for myself, my confidence
50:04in it.
50:10>> I think
50:14I immediately went to control, but I
50:17don't
50:20>> that's a silly thing to say. You're
50:22afraid of losing, I think. But but I
50:24think it's of the like
50:27like when I think about all the pieces
50:29and they all kind of you know work
50:31together in some aspect of it all and
50:34it's mostly because you know I've done
50:37something to control or put some armor
50:40around XYZ. So whether that be a wall
50:44around grief as an example um but afraid
50:48of losing control of that
50:52I don't want to bring that to the
50:53surface to be honest I don't think I'm
50:55ready.
50:57>> Yeah. Well stay with it and if we keep
50:59pulling it like if we
51:02by keeping grief tucked away
51:05>> Yeah. It guarantees that you don't
51:08experience something,
51:10>> right?
51:11>> And what is that thing?
51:14>> Right. Well, I think for me, like when
51:17we were talking about that idea of like
51:20guilt being my fuel
51:23and just the concept of putting grief in
51:26that scares the [ __ ] out of me.
51:29>> Mhm.
51:31>> Cuz I don't know what's there.
51:34>> Mhm. I don't think I've ever truly let
51:36myself feel that
51:39to know what's there. So losing control
51:43would be a piece of that because I'm I
51:45don't know what what lays beyond that.
51:56>> That's so honest of you. And if you
51:58think about experiencing something
52:00you've never experienced before.
52:05Um
52:10yeah, I like how you're saying like
52:11losing control. It almost feels like
52:13it's like it's like one step of move
52:16away from the thing that control is
52:17actually helping you protect something
52:19and like there's something underneath of
52:21there. I
52:22>> for sure
52:24>> John for clarification can I understand
52:26what you're saying? You were saying that
52:29the controls it relates to you have the
52:31ability to build a wall around grief,
52:34but did I also hear you al say that
52:37grief can be a fuel?
52:40>> Yeah. When we were trying to figure out
52:41cuz like I use guilt as a fuel for how I
52:46>> how I feel or do things in certain
52:48situations. Not that I feel that. I just
52:50use it because I feel like I should. Um,
52:53but I think that we were trying to like
52:56kind of get down to the concept of what
52:58what's there instead. So, what's the
53:00actual thing that might fuel? And I
53:03think it anyway, we did briefly mention
53:07three and I briefly said, "No, thank
53:09you."
53:14>> Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you for
53:15clarifying.
53:16>> Yeah. And my point around just quickly
53:18on that was like instead of being
53:20motivated by guilt like you should do
53:22this, be motivated by the fact that
53:24historically you've missed moments
53:28and allowing yourself to be able to like
53:31recognize and use that grief as a way of
53:33being like, "Oh my gosh, like
53:35I'm going to meet this moment with such
53:37tenderness, not because I should and how
53:40you know what I mean, but because like I
53:43think this is central to what we're
53:44talking about here because I'm going to
53:46lose it. I already have lost that
53:48moment. It already disappeared and I
53:50want to experience this joy from that
53:52place that fully allows me to be able to
53:56um to be there in a way that we we
53:58aren't historically. We aren't able to
54:00experience joy at a highest level when
54:02it's driven by guilt,
54:04>> right?
54:05>> Yeah. And so I think me that wall around
54:08that to be to be honest like I just
54:10don't know what's there. So I don't
54:13know.
54:15not my comfort zone.
54:18>> I uh I've said to Dave before um and it
54:23I this is where I see grief as really as
54:25a field too is like I've said to Dave,
54:27don't you find parenting exquisitely
54:29painful? just like the amount of love
54:32and the amount of fear and grief of what
54:36of that don't you find it pain like
54:39actually physically painful parenting
54:41and um we've kind of agreed on that but
54:44I in that context I really see grief as
54:48a fuel for me to be the kind of parent
54:50that I want to be like that the
54:53closeness to how much love there is
54:56there and therefore how much grief there
54:58is in the possibilities of loss I guess
55:01um fuels me intensely to be the kind of
55:05parent that I
55:07want to be in like the love that I not
55:10in fear but more in love, you know, like
55:12it's a I see that grief and the and but
55:17I I have trouble releasing it too. The
55:19other day I when I was still at
55:20Valencia, I went to the park and there
55:22was a song that was kind of making me
55:23tearary and I was like, "Oh, this is a
55:26good moment." And I just sat in the park
55:28by myself with Mango, actually too. Poor
55:30Mango. Sat in the park with Mango. And I
55:33put the song on a couple times and I
55:35absolutely just sobbed and like released
55:37whatever. Wasn't even something
55:39specific. It was just like just a
55:41release of that and it was so good. But
55:46you know those moments, it doesn't have
55:47to be like so directly connected either,
55:49right? It's just allowing it to exist.
55:52um rather than like skipping the song or
55:54you know or like the throat feeling when
55:57you're like I'm not gonna cry. I'm not
55:58gonna cry. I was like oh no I think I'm
56:01just gonna sit here alone in the park.
56:03So
56:05well you know Don I love that Jenny and
56:07not to not to shift gears too quickly on
56:10you after sharing that and just mindful
56:11of our time. Quick question for you,
56:13Don. This like I don't know and I like
56:15to know,
56:17right? And like the fear of that, like
56:20what would it what would it be like to
56:21actually experience grief? I think about
56:23you starting your own business like
56:24you've shared with us
56:26>> and that threshold of like not knowing
56:28how that's going to go,
56:30>> right? And I think inevitably, like even
56:33when it comes to starting a
56:34conversation, an undefended conversation
56:36where we don't know where it's going to
56:37go or starting a business where we don't
56:39know where it's going to go, the reality
56:42is is as soon as we actually bring
56:44something out into the world and allow
56:47it to leave us, it immediately goes
56:49through a death right away because the
56:52it's the initial conception of what we
56:54thought then gets changed. Right? You go
56:56and share something with customers and
56:58they actually change it. They evolve it.
57:00And some people don't. They they force
57:02it in and that never really works
57:04eventually, right? But when it comes to
57:06the creative process, I just ask that a
57:09little bit to be like, huh, does that I
57:11need to know piece potentially show up
57:14as the barrier for you to creatively
57:16enter into a different chapter of your
57:18life professionally that you've thought
57:19about? And again, it's that like arms
57:22length or worlds length distance away
57:24from death in our relationship from it
57:27that is at the actual core of the
57:29obstacle that's there for us of what no
57:31doubt could also gateway to so much joy
57:34as well. And that's where I'd like us to
57:36see that as like death and a good
57:38relationship with it as something that
57:40we can build and bring our capacity to
57:42because we can create as we go through
57:45that. We can create from a place of joy.
57:48um as a result of that. But it's
57:50incumbent that we start to understand
57:52death as it is. And I think each of
57:54those little things, whether it's
57:56experiencing grief or starting a
57:58business and crossing the threshold of
58:00not knowing and going anyway,
58:04that is us apprenticeshipping our own
58:07disappearance. Do you understand what I
58:09mean by that?
58:11We're going to disappear anyway. It's
58:12like those little things are like the
58:14apprenticeship of it. It is the small
58:16triing. It is the tasting of that
58:19because we are going to eventually and
58:21here's the thing that really moves me in
58:23this is people around me my loved ones
58:25every single day are going through their
58:27own disappearance. Quinn applied to
58:29universities didn't get into the ones
58:31that she wanted. Her vision of what she
58:33saw her next year looking like is dead.
58:35I don't mean to be pathy and direct but
58:37it's the truth. The idea and vision of
58:40what she had for herself. And if I'm not
58:43comfortable being in the presence of my
58:44own experience of disappearing, my
58:47goodness, how am I going to show up to
58:48somebody like Quinn? Oh my gosh, don't
58:50worry about it. Here it is. No, no, it's
58:52fine. Instead of like, no, like this is
58:53a death. I'm so sorry your vision that
58:55you had is not coming
58:58to fruition. That's a part of her own
59:01apprenticeshipping towards it. Do you
59:03see where I'm going with this?
59:05>> So, I think this is a this is a big
59:07topic. Um, but I think a real important
59:09one, especially as it relates to joy.
59:11And I'm I'm pleased to see the
59:13discomfort
59:14>> comes uh in this in the room
59:17>> uh because it tells me that we're
59:19bumping up into a territory that is new
59:21for us and and subsequently I think
59:24there's lots of learning. It's it's
59:25going to be a good challenge for all of
59:27us to be willing to be changed by this
59:29conversation or series of conversations
59:31around death. If you'll meet us there,
59:36>> you've brought us far enough along.
59:38We'll we can do it.
59:41I'll bring I'll bring bags of MDMA to
59:44the island and kind of play this.
59:46>> I can't I can't I can't.
59:50>> That's awesome. This is good stuff.
59:53>> Good to see all you today. I know we're
59:54at the hour. Rebecca, thanks for taking
59:56us on the road. Love seeing some of your
59:59Instagram photos, by the way, with the
1:00:00summer season picking up on the island.
1:00:02Wishing you all the best. And Sandy and
1:00:04Don, we'll see you guys soon.
1:00:06>> Awesome.
1:00:06>> I'll have to follow you on Instagram,
1:00:08Rebecca.
1:00:08>> All right. Yeah, me too. I was just
1:00:10thinking that.
1:00:13>> Bye everyone.

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