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Apollo 13: Jim Lovell relives the Moon mission that almost didn’t make it home — Transcript

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0:00I thank you captain level for joining us
0:02today and reminiscing about Apollo 13
0:04whose 50th anniversary is coming up
0:06quickly and we had several questions we
0:09wanted to run through about the mission
0:11and your reactions to everything that
0:13transpired during Apollo 13 my first
0:16question is Apollo 13 was going to be
0:19the first the third moon landing could
0:21you talk a little bit about the
0:22objectives of your mission and how it
0:24differs from well actually this is the
0:28first time that we are really going for
0:31exploration or discovery that first
0:35pollow 11 and Apollo 12 are merely
0:38machines to say hey we could do the job
0:41here it is and and 12 fouled up that 11
0:45was just not a fluke you know that yes
0:48actually 12 was due to the same thing
0:50but by the time 13 came around they
0:53didn't worry so much about the the
0:56transition and the mechanics of getting
0:58to the moon what the scientists were now
1:01looking at it was the moon itself look
1:03at it more things so we were going to a
1:05place called fra mauro and from ours
1:09wants to be a very informative place
1:11with different kind of materials than 11
1:13or 12 picked up and that was our whole
1:16objective and so that's what we trained
1:17for and
1:19you know unfortunately we didn't make it
1:23I understand your crew was originally
1:26scheduled to fly on Apollo 14 in that 13
1:29but NASA everyday rejected deke Slayton
1:31was recommendation for the Apollo 13
1:33crew and those bumped you up
1:35I was wondering how did you feel about
1:36that at the time and have you feel
1:38looking back well it was kind of
1:41interesting after Apollo 8 and then we
1:45watched Apollo 11 I was the backup to
1:47kneel on a part of 11 and then I was
1:51assigned Apollo 14 so we started trained
1:54for that but the NASA management
1:57determined that al Shepard didn't have
2:00enough training he was grounded for some
2:02time and so one day deke came in and
2:05said look II we want to put you on 13
2:07rather than 14 and I thought that would
2:11be fine yeah I mean we'd be coming up
2:13six months or sometime or earlier and do
2:16that and it bit earlier flight and went
2:18home and I told my wife I man we're
2:21gonna go on 13 not 14 and she said 13
2:25she said yeah I said well it comes after
2:3012 you know and then then they put that
2:33in the movie well you know being in the
2:43government and NASA we don't believe and
2:45you know this like like the number of 13
2:50but it did have as you look at the
2:53flight and you analyze the mission from
2:56its inception to its the the finality of
3:01it you'll see that it was plagued by bad
3:06omens and bad luck from the very
3:07beginning yeah and one by one I could
3:10now that I look back on it I could see
3:12the things that occurred that told me
3:16that hey you know somebody's gonna
3:18happen here those things yeah well first
3:23of all we were getting all squared away
3:27to to check things out and during the
3:32during the countdown demonstration test
3:35was just two weeks before the flight and
3:38we have a spacecraft loaded with fuel
3:40and things of this nature if the test
3:46was completed everything worked fine for
3:48launching the vehicle we left and the
3:53ground crew went in to secure the
3:55spacecraft one of our jobs was to remove
3:58the liquid oxygen from the two liquid
4:01oxygen tanks that were in the spacecraft
4:04and the way they did it they put gaseous
4:08oxygen or gas in the fill line it forces
4:12out the vent line through a system in
4:15the tank itself that the plumbing that
4:18allowed you to do that but years before
4:22the flight this tank had been dropped of
4:25the factory now they tested it out for
4:28everything and I had to do to supply
4:29oxygen to the spacecraft but they failed
4:32us look at the little bit mechanisms of
4:35the tubing to remove the oxygen after a
4:37routine test and so when the crew after
4:41the last test just two weeks before the
4:43flight try to remove the oxygen they
4:47couldn't do it and so they looked at the
4:51schematics so that the tank and they
4:53look and they said well wait us I got
4:55this tank has a heater on it and also
4:58look at it we should just apply the
5:02ground bar because we have ground power
5:04at the launch site 65 volt grand power
5:07while the spacecraft flew at 28 volt
5:11power and they applied the 65 volt power
5:14to the oxygen tanks heater system and as
5:18they predicted it worked out they boiled
5:20the oxygen out of the tank made
5:22everything all squared away all set to
5:23go but well they didn't know what they
5:27didn't know as the temperature in the
5:29tank got up to about close to 80 degrees
5:31was just kind of unusual for liquid
5:33oxygen you know quickly the little
5:37thermostat was gonna open up to show off
5:40the power and
5:42and keep the heat down but when it came
5:44up the higher voltage welded those
5:47contacts shut and from then on we had no
5:51safety well safety as it turned out the
5:55temperature got up to three or four
5:57hundred degrees ground crew never knew
5:59it
5:59oxygen was all removed believed in the
6:03tank didn't explode for some strange
6:04reason to all the oxygen got out and and
6:08so the tank about the day before the
6:12flight the tank was liquid to put liquid
6:14oxygen back into it and from then on it
6:17was a bomb waiting to go off
6:19but the anomaly of this whole thing was
6:21back in 1985 I think it was the
6:26manufacturer of the spacecraft told the
6:29manufacturer of the liquid oxygen tank
6:31to change the circuit breakers or the
6:34thermostats from canibal being
6:36compatible for for 28 Volt to 65 volt
6:41they did not do it they did not do it
6:45and then what makes things worse is that
6:48the manufacturer didn't double-check his
6:51directive to do it and consequently it
6:54damaged the tank and then you know two
7:00hundred thousand miles out on April 13
7:04the tank exploded and of course other
7:07all old ones were as the fact we had
7:09measles just before the take-off and
7:13Jack's wecord was replaced had replaced
7:17Ken Natalie so these are the things that
7:20led up to Apollo 13 to be unusual
7:33Apollo 13 liftoff started flawlessly but
7:35the center engine did you have concerns
7:41at that point whether you'd be able to
7:43reach the moon yes we did suddenly the
7:46center engine shut down - mouthing one
7:50minute or two minutes early and we had
7:52that big light blue minutes and we said
7:54boy what's the story
7:55well it turned out that the third stage
8:00we had enough fuel to figure it get into
8:03Earth orbit and then go around and with
8:05enough fuel left on the third stage to
8:07give us the velocity a little but that
8:09was another little bad omen and the
8:12funny thing is I'm one of the unbanned
8:15Saturn five there were two unmanned 75
8:18launches that that same thing I had
8:22occurred and they thought they had
8:24everything all squared away by that time
8:26and of course on on 8 and 10 and 11
8:32everything works fine well this is your
8:36second trip to the moon in your fourth
8:37flight overall we used to the sights and
8:40the sounds and even smells yes I have to
8:45be all had with me I mean I felt very
8:48comfortable on 13 to start out with
8:52knowing some of the items I had I
8:54learned a navigator of Apollo 8 and so
8:58we and it turns out that's why curd was
9:01very confident he happened to be the
9:03fellow that helped develop the the
9:06command module manual for any kind of
9:11problems that they had a problem and
9:13he'll so I felt very you know
9:15comfortable with him and I mentioned can
9:30you describe your reaction when you
9:31heard the loud bang that resulted from
9:33the well first of all we did though I
9:39heard a loud bang and the funny thing is
9:42during our test phases while were the
9:45spacecraft that Fred Haise made some of
9:49the main things kind of funny you know
9:51he would pull I think was an oxygen
9:53valve or some sort of gave a bang to and
9:56I thought at first is that I was Fred
10:00that it's why is he doing that again and
10:03then I looked up at him I had been down
10:06command module that looked up I had a
10:08man and he had his eyes were as wide as
10:10saucers and I could tell he says not me
10:15and then of course things started to
10:17happen well before I saw that I saw that
10:29we lost two out of three fuel cells and
10:31I knew that one fuel so would give us
10:34enough electrical power to get around
10:36the Luna back home again but then I
10:39looked up on the instrument panel and I
10:42saw the quantity gauges of the two fuel
10:44cells in in the service module and one
10:48feel was zero and the other field so I
10:52started to go down like this ever so
10:54slightly but something he would never
10:55see in the normal uses of oxygen on a
10:58flight to the moon and then I went out
11:01to the side window and I can't tell you
11:03today why I did it but when I looked out
11:05the window I saw escaping at the rear of
11:07my spacecraft in sort of a flame or a
11:11few you know like like a gaseous
11:14substance and I realized quickly that
11:16that gas I saw coming out was the oxygen
11:20and that I had lost both fuel cells or
11:24oxygen tanks I lost both oxygen tanks so
11:27the explosion ruptured part of the
11:31second tank - which was not damaged by
11:34the factory crew when they dropped them
11:44well when you're in a situation like
11:46this I could have bouncing off the walls
11:48you know for 10 minutes trying to figure
11:51out what to do and then nothing would
11:54have changed and so and remember that
11:57the crew was you know former test pilots
12:00so I had been used to an engine quitting
12:04and occasionally testing airplanes and
12:06things like that so if I only had to
12:08decide what to do and we knew quite
12:12quickly that we were in a
12:15dyeing vehicle and that we're gonna have
12:19to go into the lunar module because it
12:22was the only thing that he still had
12:24oxygen tanks because with a loss of
12:26electrical power we lose our rocket
12:29engine or the command module so it was
12:33going to be dead and which was exactly
12:37what happened and we discussed it funny
12:40I forget exactly will make got to talk
12:43to the ground the ground at first
12:45thought that this was a communications
12:49problem that somehow the we were
12:53interrupted by the you know the radio
12:57waves or something like that you know
12:58rays coming from the Sun or something of
13:01this nature and giving all these false
13:03indications on the council's down there
13:06but we knew what the store who was
13:09because right from the beginning and so
13:12they finally agreed that that was the
13:14case let's go in the in the lunar module
13:17and the first thing we did which was
13:20very very fortunate we took the guidance
13:24parameters out of the guidance system
13:27and and put him into the guidance system
13:30into the lunar module so the guidance
13:34system the command module knew our
13:35attitude with respect to the celestial
13:38sphere so we got that information back
13:41into the lunar modules guide system
13:43which was dead we had to fire it up and
13:44put it in so we do then in the lunar
13:47module what our attitude was so that we
13:50could use the lunar module later on with
13:53this engine to maneuver to different
13:55attitudes well the stage you'd already
13:59performed the course correction to get
14:00off the fury turn trajectory on to a
14:03better path for landing near from now
14:04how quickly did Mission Control figure
14:07out how to get you back onto that
14:09and to speed the spacecraft up to get
14:12your home earlier it took a little while
14:14but that was the first thing they
14:16thought of it's kind of interesting we
14:18started out to the moon on a free return
14:21course which essentially meant that if
14:24we if our engine quit in this in the
14:26service module that we were on a course
14:29that would take us all the way to the
14:31moon and it was pretty accurate with the
14:33help of the moon's gravity we'd switch
14:35around and come back on a course back to
14:37the earth being such an attitude that we
14:41could cut into the Earth's atmosphere
14:43that by shape wedge is only between what
14:47two and three degrees or something like
14:50that but we had to go through there it's
14:51a two degree pie shape wedge and but
14:54then about oh I don't know 20 hours
14:59after we were taken off going from the
15:01earth to the moon they call up and said
15:04look at we have looked at your situation
15:06when you get around to starting to go
15:09down to land at Fran tomorrow and we've
15:12kind of figured out that the Sun is
15:13going to be ready just above you and so
15:16it's gonna wipe out everything down
15:18below you're gonna be like you know
15:20landing in a you know saucer of milk so
15:23we're gonna get you off that free-return
15:25and put you on a course that when we get
15:28around to start landing you'll start to
15:30see the craters and the shadows and
15:32things like that so so that's fine and
15:35then of course when the accident
15:36occurred we're in a position that have
15:39we not gotten off that course going
15:41around the moon coming back to the earth
15:44we'd be we missed the earth completely
15:46and we'd end up in a long little orbit
15:49all the way back out to where the moon
15:51was backed into the where the earth was
15:53back in there you know and I don't know
15:56for years I guess
16:08or did you realize that at the time and
16:11we know we didn't although when we came
16:17around and at the apogee because this
16:21time we didn't slow down of course again
16:23we let the apogee take us back again I
16:26look back on that moon and I could see
16:28that it's not the one I saw on Apollo 8
16:30it's a lot smaller and with that rig
16:35ours though that I knew that that's fine
16:37with me because I know we're not going
16:39to slow down either so I've got the
16:41velocity to not get captured by the mode
16:43to get back home again well normally a
17:00lunar module is you know is like any
17:03other vehicle I mean when you do things
17:05when you do the contraction of the
17:08controls that they'll go the way you
17:09were designed they were designed to do
17:11and you learned it that way but when the
17:14explosion occurred and we had to use the
17:17lunar module but we needed the command
17:21module and it's heat shield to get back
17:24into the atmosphere so what happened
17:27when I first tried to maneuver the
17:30vehicle before we got to the moon to get
17:32back on that free return course and the
17:35ground gave us the particularly attitude
17:37is to do it to so I started to maneuver
17:40in the normal way it didn't work the
17:44center of gravity instead of being at
17:46the center of the lunar module like it's
17:47normal was way out and left feel
17:49someplace and if I wanted to go white it
17:52went someplace else if I wanted to go
17:54left and what's up so I literally had to
17:57learn but by the maneuvering how to
18:01maneuver or how to place my controller
18:04to get to the proper position and it
18:08took a little while for me to do that
18:10but fortunately you know what
18:13deep Felber you learned pretty fast I
18:18was curious healthy communications
18:20between you and Mission Control
18:23you were obviously working on the
18:24immediate crisis while they were
18:25planning ahead I had to get you safely
18:27what was that the night dynamic like
18:29talking to them and working things in
18:32airwest it was pretty good in the
18:34beginning though after we got on this
18:37they knew we had to get back on the free
18:39return but they were now determining
18:42what should we do I mean there were some
18:46talk about well let's you know we had a
18:49procedure in the computer to slow down
18:53and come back again but we didn't think
18:56that the lunar modules fuel system would
19:00handle all that and and so they were
19:03debating what to do back and forth as we
19:05are going towards towards the moon and
19:08but we talked back and forth and you
19:13know without the Mission Control I think
19:16that we would be talking today that was
19:34a problem
19:34- and they and of course we got rid of
19:37the the the service parcel the no one
19:41other service was to the third stage of
19:43the booster that was going to crash on
19:45the moon after we got back of the free
19:55return course the the ground came up
19:58again and said look it we have analyzed
20:00your situation and the amount of
20:02electrical power you have on the lunar
20:04module and it's really touching and
20:06touching going we don't think you you
20:09know we think you'll one out before you
20:11get back and you're going to have to
20:13have electrical power to get your final
20:14position for landing and so we're gonna
20:17speed you up
20:18and so this was on the way to the moon
20:21and so we have a crew down on the
20:24simulator is now working out
20:26directions and then as we got closer and
20:29closer Lodi by the way they said by the
20:31when you get behind the moon now you
20:34lose communication with us so be sure
20:36you're ready to copy and I said well
20:38yeah I have my two companions and if I
20:40miss something to company on this next
20:42procedure
20:43I'm sure they'll pick it up and so as we
20:46get very close to the moon
20:48they call him said are you ready to copy
20:50and I said I am and I started a copy and
20:54I looked at my companions they weren't
20:58paying attention they had cameras in
21:00their hands imagine the cameras on their
21:02hands and I said gentlemen what are your
21:05plans here and they said well as we go
21:07around the far side of the move where
21:09it'll take some pictures and if we don't
21:12get home you won't get them developed
21:15but I got the procedures they got their
21:19photographs and so he came yeah he got
21:33an infection a bladder infection
21:37I think and he got it got the chills and
21:40things like that I try to keep warm
21:42every once awhile I'd give my bear hug
21:45we'd try to keep him with my body and
21:47but he hung in there fortunately and it
21:52was the temperatures kept dropping
21:54slowly at first we didn't notice that
21:56because you know but we were turning off
21:58all the electronic equipment that
22:00provided the heat to balance the
22:02temperature inside the spacecraft the
22:05funny one roll that someone's down we
22:08that got kind of cold in there and and
22:13so but he held him well of course it was
22:25one of you know pure delight we are
22:29coming back in and we got through that
22:32one other big problem that we had that
22:35we were being poisoned by our own
22:37exhalation
22:39the Commandant of the environmental
22:42system in the lunar module at just one
22:45canister to remove carbon dioxide and it
22:48was designed only for two guys for two
22:50days and we were three guys for four
22:53days and so we had to figure out a way
22:56of getting rid of the carbon dioxide
22:58which Mission Control did they figured
23:01out a way of taking a canister from the
23:04dead command module and which was square
23:07trying to fit it into a round hole which
23:10we finally did with duct tape and
23:12everything of that nature and it worked
23:16this is a miraculous thing because of
23:18the that didn't happen that carbon
23:20dioxide was it was building up and you
23:24know I don't know what would happen and
23:25then what was the experience like
23:31working on the Apollo 13 film and
23:33appearing in it as well as your
23:35association it was kind of interesting
23:40as a matter of fact just after we
23:43finally landed and we got all the Iwo
23:47Jima and we're dusted ourselves off and
23:49Fred got into sickbay and when we went
23:52down to see him and we're sitting around
23:54talking we said you know something
23:56this is an unusual flight I mean look
23:59what happened you know measles and all
24:03the things that happened and all that
24:05this I'm making you know we all write a
24:08book about it and and so we decided well
24:14maybe that's a good idea
24:15I talked to Jax like it at that time and
24:18Fred Hayes and nothing happened for a
24:21while the days went by years went by
24:24actually and then a fellow by the name
24:28of Jeff Krueger called up he was a
24:30writer for the Discover Magazine and and
24:33he said you know I've always wanted to
24:35write a story on NASA the space program
24:38and I'm 13 I thought was the way to go
24:41and I said you know that's what we've
24:42been thinking about but by that time
24:44Fred had a job with Grumman and so he
24:47wasn't interested and Jack had died he
24:51look at me I think it was anyway which
24:54was the same and I said well let's do it
24:58I said little split will go 5050 and
25:01I'll be the guy that gets something the
25:02information if you I liked his writing
25:04and so that's what we did that's what
25:07came up with started out to be lost moon
25:09and then then the movie people said well
25:12listen Paulo 13 is much more that good
25:16then lost moon on a movie so we went out
25:19to see Ron Howard it's kind of funny how
25:23this got started too because we're
25:26writing the book we hadn't finished the
25:27book yet
25:28and when our publisher or are not the
25:32publisher but the oh I forget the the
25:35people in between the agents agent is
25:39the person said look at there's some
25:41interest in the movies Ford and and so I
25:46got a call from Ron Howard could you
25:48come out and talk to me about this
25:50particular story it turned out that the
25:56son of a flight controller also worked
25:59for Ron Howard and his job was to go
26:03through all the books and the scripts
26:05and everything that people handed them
26:07to see if they're worth while making a
26:10movie and he saw this manuscript which
26:13was not completed and he went around
26:15Howard he said look at that I think this
26:17would be kind of interesting and so Fred
26:21I went up and talked to him and that's
26:23not all I got started I think most
26:34people's minds
26:39people remember about the Apollo program
26:41how does it feel to be part of something
26:44that didn't work but in the end ended up
26:46becoming even more famous well it did
26:50become more famous at the beginning at
26:51least in the eyes of NASA I have to tell
26:54you that was a story we came back it's a
26:58failure and I would say there is some
27:00human purposes that made this a failure
27:04when they finally did the analysis so
27:06the spacecraft the command module which
27:08was the only thing left of Apollo 13
27:09really was in a warehouse down in
27:13Florida for about six months and then
27:18they try to forget about it they wanted
27:21to go onto Apollo 14 and everything like
27:23that then France call up Paris called a
27:28museum Labor's a which was were
27:31Lindbergh landed and they they asked the
27:34Smithsonian do you have a name space
27:35artifacts that we could have at this
27:38museum and then the lights came on and
27:41the Smithsonian and also NASA well we
27:45get rid of this spacecraft so they
27:47exiled Paolo thirteen too labor J and it
27:52stayed there for twenty years and about
27:56eighteen years before that or after that
27:59I had a classmate that went out there
28:02and he saw it and he wrote me a letter
28:04and he said do you know where your
28:06spacecraft is and I didn't at that time
28:10no one told me who is Italy per se and
28:13then later on a year or so later my wife
28:15and I were in Paris and we went out to
28:18this museum which was at the airfield
28:21there and there we saw it we walked up
28:24to it it was still on the cradle that
28:27they had ruled on in it was all boy
28:31itself just about nothing else around it
28:34the catch was missing the instrument
28:38panel was missing the seats were missing
28:41and the only thing I saw was on the side
28:44was a piece of paper that was stuck on
28:47the side it said Apollo 13 and gave the
28:50names of
28:50three crew members and I thought well
28:55you know he was all dusty you know and
28:58and then and then Ron Howard made the
29:04movie and of course they made the movie
29:07that was shown in France and all those
29:10French people said oh it's out there at
29:12La Barthe
29:13let's go see it meanwhile NASA was so
29:16embarrassed in the Smithsonian that the
29:20museum out of Hutchinson Kansas called
29:23the Cosmosphere offered to go get that
29:26and bring it back I'd pay for it and
29:28they did and all those French would now
29:31were mad because they had kept it for 20
29:33years
29:33and now it came back here well first of
30:05all you have to look a little bit of my
30:07background I was my father died when I
30:16was a youngster and my mother and I
30:19lived together in a small apartment and
30:22there was no way as I was in high school
30:24that I was going to go to college oh
30:26it's very much interested though in
30:29Rockets because it was I had gone to
30:32high school during the World War two and
30:35towards the end of World War two we
30:37learned a lot about what the Germans
30:38were doing I learned a lot what was
30:41happening here with dr. Goddard and
30:44what he was trying to do I read a book
30:49or I try to read a book that got it
30:51wrote back in 1913 of the development or
30:54the method of reaching extreme Alice's
30:57was was using liquid fuel rockets to do
30:59that that was 1913 you know I didn't
31:02understand half of it but I I you know
31:05and I want to become a rocket engineer
31:07so I wrote to the American rocket
31:08Society so how do I do that and they
31:11wrote back a very nice letter but
31:12essentially what it said at the end get
31:14a good education go to MIT they suggest
31:17that our Caltech I couldn't afford any
31:20of that I also applied from the Naval
31:23Academy at that time because you know
31:25there I could get in without having to
31:27pay a lot of money and my uncle was out
31:32of the class of 13 at the name of the
31:34Academy and so I wrote back there and I
31:37got a letter back saying I was third
31:40alternate things look pretty slim pretty
31:46bad
31:46and then and then something happened
31:50like a window opening up the door that
31:53if you start walking through it it turns
31:56out that the Navy was short of naval
32:00aviators after World War two they had
32:02these all these carriers you know but
32:04most of the people that trained for
32:06naval aviation didn't want to stay in
32:09the Navy after the war they did a good
32:10job during the war they came back and
32:12they all you know left to do other
32:15things the Navy was short on naval
32:17aviators and so Buford's and Admiral
32:21Holloway was his name came up with a
32:24plan
32:24let's take high school seniors if
32:27they're interested in naval aviation and
32:31they passed physicals and things like
32:33that we'll send them to college for two
32:36years has to be an engineering course
32:38but we'll send them to college for two
32:40years and if they pass and they look
32:42good that like that will Sun down to
32:45Pensacola and get their wings of getting
32:48a flight training that's about 14 months
32:50and as when they go down there they'll
32:52be a VA shin but shipment
32:55and if they get their wings and are all
32:57squared away we'll send them out to a
33:00squadron or to base someplace for about
33:03six months to make sure they get
33:04acclimated to that and then we'll set
33:07them back to their college for the last
33:08two years so they'll get a four-year
33:11education they'll be naval aviators and
33:14they'll and I couldn't believe it I said
33:17oh my gosh I plight us you know really
33:21tripping over myself so I got accepted I
33:25went to Wisconsin for two years which
33:28was about a year and a half because the
33:29Navy doesn't believe in holidays and
33:33then I went down to Pensacola but while
33:37I was at the Naval Academy mother
33:42thinking ahead said you know these
33:45government programs sometimes they can
33:49stop them anytime they want to now
33:51you're in college right now and that's
33:53really great but maybe the Navy somebody
33:55realizes that they have enough naval
33:56aviators they don't need anymore they'll
33:58just shut the program down so why don't
34:00you call or apply one more time to the
34:05Naval Academy just so I did while I was
34:08at Wisconsin I replied one more time and
34:11I got the results back this time I was
34:14now first all of it that's why I said
34:18you know that's the end of that deal and
34:20so I did go down after my two years at
34:22Wisconsin went down to into the Holloway
34:27program it's called started ground
34:29training before you start your flying
34:32and about a month and a half through
34:34ground training I suddenly got orders
34:37from the naval Department from the and
34:40these were not mandatory orders these
34:44were said if you still want to go to the
34:45Naval Academy go up and and every
34:49check-in at Annapolis I couldn't believe
34:52it
34:53now I was at a quandary and the young
34:56marine officers who were doing some of
34:58the training came to me and said you
35:01know you have two years of college
35:04you're in Naval Aviation
35:07isn't that what you wanted and then
35:09you'll get your last two years of
35:10college education you have a job at
35:13everything I said you're absolutely
35:15right
35:15I said that's ridiculous but then the
35:19skipper of ground training called me in
35:23he's an old for striper I think that was
35:27training pilot since the Revolution and
35:30he said son said you want to make you
35:33Navy your career yes sir
35:36get your ass up to the Naval Academy get
35:38your training while you can get it you
35:40never know what's gonna happen so I did
35:43packed my bags went up to the Naval
35:46Academy check-in and a blue uniform that
35:48was strictly a midshipman's uniform
35:50because we had him down there too they
35:52could believe who I was they had us they
35:55had a wasn't discharged me as an
36:01aviation midshipman and then reef reefs
36:04were me and as a midshipman and that's
36:09how it all started
36:35well I'll have to tell you another dance
36:37tutorial all those lines and about a
36:40week or two weeks after we got picked up
36:43in Hawaii and then we came back and we
36:46had a big press conference of course ooh
36:48and all the NASA people came and all the
36:51reporters came in and TV people and
36:53stuff like that and a lot of the
36:55families came in to listen to the whole
36:57thing and where did the auditorium down
36:59at the Johnson Space Center so we
37:02started talking about that and the
37:04beginning of a conference a reporter
37:08asked Jim are you gonna ask for another
37:14flight I mean obviously this was not you
37:16know successful and before that on
37:21Apollo 11 so they think 12 management
37:24said look if if there's a problem with
37:26this flight we'll get you back and we'll
37:28give you the very next one and and so
37:32when that question came up for the
37:34reporter I thought to myself because
37:35management worry behind us here is the
37:38perfect opportunity but them on the wall
37:41and said yes because they did not talk
37:45to us the 13th just 11 or 12 and I was
37:48about ready to say something like that
37:49went out in the audience I don't the
37:52audience I saw a hand go up and then I
37:54saw it go down like this it was my wife
37:59she said I could tell I said no I think
38:03this is the last flight I'm glad to be
38:06[Laughter]
38:23that's good

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