Ann Mukherjee on Revolutionizing Super Bowl Ads & The All Knowing CEO of Today | Unbossing Ep. 8 — Transcript

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1. 0:00Got a Sam's Cafe
2. 0:01pizza order up.
3. 0:05You know
4. 0:05the best part
5. 0:06about this spicy
6. 0:07Italian sausage?
7. 0:08I voted for this topic.
8. 0:10Yeah,
9. 0:10just another perk
10. 0:11of being a member.
11. 0:12Come join us.
12. 0:14Sam's club.
13. 0:24If you've eaten mac
14. 0:26and cheese,
15. 0:26opened a bag of Doritos,
16. 0:28sprayed Windex,
17. 0:29or poured absolute,
18. 0:30you've been touched by
19. 0:31an Mukherjee's work.
20. 0:33And every time
21. 0:34she mastered One world,
22. 0:35she walked into another
23. 0:37unboxing as.
24. 0:38A show
25. 0:38about reinventing leadership
26. 0:39in chaotic times.
27. 0:41Each episode,
28. 0:42we asked leaders
29. 0:43in business and tech,
30. 0:44what did you have to unlearn
31. 0:45to succeed again?
32. 0:47I'm Rashad Tobacco.
33. 0:48And I'm Gereon.
34. 0:50Today's guest was born
35. 0:51in Calcutta, India
36. 0:52and grew up in Chicago.
37. 0:54She spent 11 years at Kraft,
38. 0:55then went to PepsiCo
39. 0:57where, as CMO Frito Lay,
40. 0:59she handed the Doritos
41. 1:00brand over
42. 1:00to consumers,
43. 1:02letting fans
44. 1:03make the Super Bowl
45. 1:03ads themselves
46. 1:05crash the Super Bowl
47. 1:06when a can
48. 1:07gold in its first year
49. 1:08and ran for a decade.
50. 1:10From there,
51. 1:11she became the first global
52. 1:12CMO of S.C.
53. 1:13Johnson Windex Glade
54. 1:15Ziploc,
55. 1:16running their $12
56. 1:17billion business
57. 1:18across 90 countries.
58. 1:19And then in 2019,
59. 1:21she made the leap
60. 1:22that surprised everyone.
61. 1:23She became chairman
62. 1:24and CEO of Bernard Ricard
63. 1:26North America.
64. 1:27Absolute.
65. 1:28Jameson Cola,
66. 1:29the first industry outside
67. 1:31a woman and person of color
68. 1:32in that seat at her
69. 1:34first major act as CEO,
70. 1:36was launching
71. 1:36an absolute campaign
72. 1:38about sexual content.
73. 1:40At the end of 2023.
74. 1:42She stepped down voluntarily
75. 1:43to focus on her family.
76. 1:45Today, she serves on boards
77. 1:47and as program
78. 1:47director of the University
79. 1:49of Chicago Booth
80. 1:50global CEO program.
81. 1:51Alongside our
82. 1:52illustrious co-host
83. 1:53Rashad Tobacco.
84. 1:55And has the line
85. 1:56I keep coming back to
86. 1:57the CEO of the past
87. 1:58was expected
88. 1:59to be all knowing
89. 2:00the CEO of today
90. 2:01has to be all learning.
91. 2:03That sentence
92. 2:04is in many ways,
93. 2:05the entire
94. 2:06premise of the show.
95. 2:08Let's
96. 2:08get to our conversation with
97. 2:10an mukherjee.
98. 2:14And thanks
99. 2:15again for doing this.
100. 2:16Thank you for having me.
101. 2:18So and you know,
102. 2:20one of the things
103. 2:21this show is about
104. 2:23is unlearning and unboxing.
105. 2:25And I've learned
106. 2:26a lot from you.
107. 2:27And one of
108. 2:28the things
109. 2:28that stood out
110. 2:29in one of the conversations
111. 2:32that you had
112. 2:33was about
113. 2:34how we will always
114. 2:35have our weakness
115. 2:36and we have to embrace it.
116. 2:37And that was one
117. 2:38of your unlearning,
118. 2:40I guess, over time.
119. 2:41Can we begin there?
120. 2:43Absolutely.
121. 2:44So, you know,
122. 2:45I, I think that has been
123. 2:47my biggest learning
124. 2:48in my life,
125. 2:49that I think
126. 2:51everything that
127. 2:51culture teaches
128. 2:52us, our society
129. 2:54teaches us,
130. 2:55our parents
131. 2:56teach us
132. 2:56is to always be perfect,
133. 2:58always strive for better.
134. 2:59And I don't disagree
135. 3:01with the striving
136. 3:01for the better.
137. 3:02But I have learned
138. 3:03perfection is a sickness,
139. 3:05and this notion
140. 3:07that you constantly
141. 3:09have to improve on
142. 3:10your weaknesses
143. 3:12is really a myth.
144. 3:14Because our weaknesses are
145. 3:17set well
146. 3:18before we hit
147. 3:19ten years of age.
148. 3:20Like, it's
149. 3:21it's really hard to
150. 3:22turn your weaknesses
151. 3:24and make them a strength
152. 3:25because your strengths
153. 3:27are your strengths.
154. 3:27Your weaknesses are
155. 3:28your weaknesses.
156. 3:29It is who you are.
157. 3:30And to embrace
158. 3:32them is to really understand
159. 3:34how to
160. 3:34unleash your full potential,
161. 3:36because your weaknesses
162. 3:38actually make up
163. 3:39your strengths.
164. 3:41There are two sides
165. 3:42of a coin,
166. 3:42and to be self-aware
167. 3:44about both
168. 3:45and to strengthen one
169. 3:46and compensate for the other.
170. 3:48Boy, amazing
171. 3:49things can happen in life.
172. 3:51Yes.
173. 3:51So speak a little bit
174. 3:53about your own experience,
175. 3:55about how
176. 3:57I think
177. 3:58one of the areas
178. 3:59you talked about
179. 4:00was public speaking,
180. 4:01but there were quite
181. 4:01a few others.
182. 4:02But this entire idea
183. 4:04that if you are aware
184. 4:06of your weaknesses,
185. 4:08you can compensate for them,
186. 4:09but they also reveal in them
187. 4:11the opposite,
188. 4:12which is the strength.
189. 4:14Absolutely.
190. 4:14I mean,
191. 4:15I think, as I say to
192. 4:16anyone who will listen to me,
193. 4:18which is
194. 4:18do your own Swot analysis.
195. 4:20You know,
196. 4:21in business,
197. 4:21we do it all the time
198. 4:22as a way to get
199. 4:23competitive advantage
200. 4:24and really understanding
201. 4:27your strengths
202. 4:28so you can unleash them
203. 4:30as your unique, defining,
204. 4:33differentiated
205. 4:34kind of
206. 4:35way to break out
207. 4:36in the world.
208. 4:37If you can't
209. 4:38think on your feet,
210. 4:40that's okay.
211. 4:41Figure out how
212. 4:42to interact in a way
213. 4:44that allows
214. 4:45you space to think.
215. 4:46And when you can
216. 4:47do those things,
217. 4:49it will actually allow you to
218. 4:51go deeper and deeper.
219. 4:53Is the other
220. 4:54two parts
221. 4:54of the Swot analysis,
222. 4:56which is the opportunities
223. 4:57and threats.
224. 4:58And really what I've learned.
225. 5:00And I'm going to talk
226. 5:01about threats
227. 5:01for just a second.
228. 5:03That's where our failure lies
229. 5:06because threats are
230. 5:07the things that scare us.
231. 5:09Threats are
232. 5:09the things that make us
233. 5:11play defense
234. 5:12rather than offense.
235. 5:14And these are deep
236. 5:16seated fears
237. 5:17that may be justified,
238. 5:19may not be justified.
239. 5:20And, you know,
240. 5:21I always tell the story
241. 5:23about early in my career,
242. 5:24when I was working at Kraft
243. 5:26Foods, and I would come home
244. 5:27every day
245. 5:28angry and my husband
246. 5:29would be like,
247. 5:30what's wrong with you?
248. 5:31And I said, oh,
249. 5:32I had another fight
250. 5:32with so-and-so.
251. 5:33And he goes, why?
252. 5:35Because I have to
253. 5:36keep proving myself
254. 5:37that I'm worthy of my job.
255. 5:38And he's like,
256. 5:39what do you mean?
257. 5:40So of course I do.
258. 5:41What if they fire me?
259. 5:42And then
260. 5:43what are we going to do
261. 5:44about the mortgage payments?
262. 5:45And he said,
263. 5:46okay, first of all,
264. 5:47no one's going to fire you.
265. 5:48But if they do,
266. 5:49what's your fear?
267. 5:51I said that
268. 5:51we won't be able
269. 5:52to take care of our family.
270. 5:54Is it okay?
271. 5:54So do you think
272. 5:55you can get a job in
273. 5:56two years if you get fired?
274. 5:59Two years? Of course I can.
275. 6:01Is it okay?
276. 6:02I'm going to take
277. 6:03all our daily expenses
278. 6:06for two years
279. 6:06and put it in escrow.
280. 6:08I'm like, you can do that,
281. 6:09so of course I can.
282. 6:11So that means if I get fired,
283. 6:12we'll be okay.
284. 6:13So of course we will.
285. 6:15I wanted to work the next day
286. 6:16and I said, okay,
287. 6:17go ahead, fire my ass.
288. 6:18And it
289. 6:19absolutely changed
290. 6:21my orientation
291. 6:22of how I interacted and how I
292. 6:25gained confidence.
293. 6:27And these fears are okay
294. 6:29to have we're all human,
295. 6:31and to admit them
296. 6:32and solve for them
297. 6:33will allow you to
298. 6:34plan your toes.
299. 6:35And when you pay
300. 6:36on your toes,
301. 6:38then you find
302. 6:39your rough diamonds.
303. 6:41You alluded to
304. 6:42one of them for me
305. 6:44early in my career,
306. 6:45I was absolutely terrified
307. 6:48of public speaking.
308. 6:49I'm an introvert
309. 6:50and I just could not face
310. 6:54big groups of people.
311. 6:55And boy,
312. 6:56I knew that
313. 6:57if I was going
314. 6:57to get ahead in this world
315. 6:58as a leader,
316. 6:59I had to
317. 7:00turn that opportunity
318. 7:01into a strength.
319. 7:02And I worked on it.
320. 7:04Toastmasters and practice
321. 7:06and just experience.
322. 7:08After experience learning,
323. 7:10learning and getting better.
324. 7:12And you know, today
325. 7:13I'm not a bad speaker.
326. 7:14I'm pretty okay. Speaker.
327. 7:16And it was important
328. 7:17if I was going to get ahead.
329. 7:19Yeah.
330. 7:19You're okay as a speaker
331. 7:21as Philippe.
332. 7:23Watches are okay as watches.
333. 7:24So that's kind of work.
334. 7:28So, you know, you've
335. 7:30worked for many,
336. 7:31many years
337. 7:32across
338. 7:33lots of different companies.
339. 7:35But if I were to
340. 7:36basically talk about before
341. 7:38this most recent chapter,
342. 7:40there have been like
343. 7:41for chapters,
344. 7:42if you sort of
345. 7:42think about it.
346. 7:43There was
347. 7:44basically the cheese chapter,
348. 7:46the chips
349. 7:46chapter, the VAX chapter,
350. 7:49and then the
351. 7:49alcoholic chapter
352. 7:50to finish it all up.
353. 7:52It was like, you know,
354. 7:53you basically said,
355. 7:54I'll go get high on cheese,
356. 7:56that I'm going to go
357. 7:56one by one all the way down.
358. 7:58So that was, you know,
359. 7:59craft 11 years,
360. 8:01ten years
361. 8:02at Frito-Lay
362. 8:02and Pepsi,
363. 8:03another five years
364. 8:04at SC Johnson,
365. 8:06and then for five years
366. 8:07as the CEO of Bernard Ricard.
367. 8:10So in that sort of area,
368. 8:12I'm just going to sort of
369. 8:13ask you a little bit,
370. 8:14a broadly,
371. 8:16how would you sort of explain
372. 8:18those 25,
373. 8:2030 years as an overview
374. 8:21and then we can go
375. 8:22a little bit more specific,
376. 8:23like what made you go
377. 8:25from one to the other?
378. 8:26Or was it just like someone,
379. 8:27you know,
380. 8:28you walked in by mistake
381. 8:29to a different company?
382. 8:30So what was
383. 8:31sort of the logic,
384. 8:32and is there any rhyme
385. 8:34or reason
386. 8:34outside of the fact that,
387. 8:36you know,
388. 8:36you could say this
389. 8:37a common
390. 8:38theme might be
391. 8:39that there's a lot of food
392. 8:41till you get to like
393. 8:42the Johnson part of it,
394. 8:43and there's
395. 8:45sort of packaged goods,
396. 8:46I guess.
397. 8:47I would tell you, my logic is
398. 8:50I actually love
399. 8:52working on brands
400. 8:54that are wants,
401. 8:56not needs, and creating
402. 9:00an unleashing passion
403. 9:02and permission,
404. 9:04permissible permission behind
405. 9:07life's wants
406. 9:08is just a fabulous exercise.
407. 9:12I've had the honor
408. 9:13and benefit
409. 9:14to work on some multi-billion
410. 9:16dollar world class brands,
411. 9:18and to be
412. 9:20able to
413. 9:21unleash people's
414. 9:22imagination and desire
415. 9:25has been
416. 9:26an incredible experience.
417. 9:27And it could be Ziploc.
418. 9:30It could be,
419. 9:32you know, Jameson.
420. 9:33It could be.
421. 9:35It doesn't matter.
422. 9:36These are things
423. 9:37that give people joy.
424. 9:38And that is probably what
425. 9:42from a brand perspective,
426. 9:43a business building
427. 9:44perspective drove me.
428. 9:46But in terms of
429. 9:47my career trajectory
430. 9:49and what led me from
431. 9:50one company to
432. 9:51the other is one,
433. 9:53probably two
434. 9:54very simple things.
435. 9:55One, I'm a learner,
436. 9:56and every time
437. 9:58I stopped learning
438. 9:59at a company, I was done.
439. 10:01I wanted to move on
440. 10:02to the next thing.
441. 10:03And in each
442. 10:04one of these cases,
443. 10:06it's interesting.
444. 10:07While they're all huge
445. 10:08and big brands,
446. 10:10in some respect
447. 10:11they were the underdog.
448. 10:12And it wasn't about me
449. 10:15joining a company
450. 10:16to keep the trains
451. 10:17running on time.
452. 10:19I'm just not
453. 10:19that kind of person.
454. 10:21And so
455. 10:22those are the
456. 10:23type of challenges
457. 10:24and learning
458. 10:26that really pushed me
459. 10:27from company to company.
460. 10:29Fantastic. True.
461. 10:31And I have so many questions
462. 10:33and it's
463. 10:33great to see you again
464. 10:35as you would move
465. 10:36to a new company,
466. 10:37a new set of brands
467. 10:38that you were managing,
468. 10:39what would you have to
469. 10:40consciously say?
470. 10:41There's the through line of,
471. 10:42you're going to
472. 10:43bring this view
473. 10:44on how you build
474. 10:45great brands,
475. 10:45and it's a universal
476. 10:48sort of best practice.
477. 10:49But what would you then
478. 10:50have to unlearn
479. 10:50as you
480. 10:51walked into a new company
481. 10:52or manage
482. 10:53a different set of brands,
483. 10:55whether it was understanding
484. 10:56that company's
485. 10:57culture or story,
486. 10:59but what would you learn?
487. 11:00And on pack,
488. 11:01essentially as
489. 11:02you would start a new job?
490. 11:04So I think, you know,
491. 11:06especially people
492. 11:07who are building brands,
493. 11:08we spend a lot of time
494. 11:10on the consumer side
495. 11:11and understanding
496. 11:12the user experience and,
497. 11:14you know,
498. 11:14all of things that are
499. 11:16needed to be done.
500. 11:17But every company is unique
501. 11:19because every company
502. 11:20has this unique system
503. 11:22by which they
504. 11:24make the product
505. 11:25that is the brand,
506. 11:27the way they sell it,
507. 11:28the way
508. 11:29they will figure out
509. 11:31how to manufacture it.
510. 11:33And so
511. 11:34what you have to
512. 11:35unlearn is just because
513. 11:36you know how to,
514. 11:38you know,
515. 11:38market Kraft macaroni
516. 11:40and cheese really well.
517. 11:42That's a very different
518. 11:44selling system
519. 11:44at a Kraft Foods.
520. 11:46Then when you go to market
521. 11:48a Doritos,
522. 11:49which is at a Frito-Lay
523. 11:51that has a direct to store
524. 11:52delivery system and has,
525. 11:54you know,
526. 11:55a manufacturing system
527. 11:56that is
528. 11:58high scale and runs
529. 12:00with incredible efficiency.
530. 12:02So if you don't understand
531. 12:04the company system
532. 12:06and unlearn
533. 12:07what you've learned
534. 12:08at a previous company,
535. 12:09you're going to bring in
536. 12:10the wrong biases
537. 12:11as you do brand building.
538. 12:13So it's almost like
539. 12:14you have to walk in and say,
540. 12:15okay, I'm clear, slate,
541. 12:17teach me.
542. 12:18And then I bring
543. 12:19in my expertise
544. 12:20as a brand builder,
545. 12:21then to connect the dots.
546. 12:23And I can give you many,
547. 12:24many examples of this,
548. 12:26of what I could do
549. 12:26at one company
550. 12:27and brand building
551. 12:28that I couldn't do it another
552. 12:30because it was just
553. 12:31a very different
554. 12:32company system.
555. 12:33Now, in your adventures,
556. 12:36one of the detours
557. 12:38was at S.C. Johnson.
558. 12:39Yes.
559. 12:40And outside of the fact
560. 12:42that you went from something
561. 12:44that was not food to
562. 12:47something that you know,
563. 12:48was feeding
564. 12:49products and vaccines
565. 12:50and a whole bunch
566. 12:51of other things,
567. 12:51it was also
568. 12:52you went from two
569. 12:53public companies
570. 12:54to a private family company.
571. 12:57What was the learning
572. 12:58and unlearning there, and
573. 12:59is there any difference?
574. 13:00Or it's the same thing
575. 13:02I've said of
576. 13:02quarterly reports.
577. 13:04It's all different
578. 13:05and all the same.
579. 13:06So let me unpack that.
580. 13:09So yes,
581. 13:09I went to
582. 13:10SD Johnson to unlearn.
583. 13:12I went to S.C.
584. 13:13Johnson
585. 13:13because I wanted to unlearn
586. 13:16the quarterly
587. 13:17earnings system.
588. 13:18I wanted to go to a company
589. 13:20where they didn't
590. 13:20make decisions
591. 13:22for the next three months.
592. 13:23They made decisions
593. 13:24over the next three decades.
594. 13:26And what was interesting
595. 13:28was, yes,
596. 13:29it did lead
597. 13:30to very different investment
598. 13:32profiles, very different
599. 13:34understanding of,
600. 13:36you know, long term equity.
601. 13:38All of those
602. 13:39things were true.
603. 13:40But guess what?
604. 13:41Even in a private company,
605. 13:43you have shareholders.
606. 13:45And while it may not be
607. 13:47a public earnings release,
608. 13:50you still had to deliver
609. 13:51to the family shareholders.
610. 13:52And I
611. 13:53thought it would be easier
612. 13:55because they had a more long
613. 13:57term perspective.
614. 13:59Oh my gosh, no.
615. 14:00When it's a family company,
616. 14:03it's personal
617. 14:04and you have to operate
618. 14:07at a much higher level
619. 14:08than I actually did
620. 14:10in a publicly traded company.
621. 14:12These were
622. 14:12people's livelihoods
623. 14:14that I got to see up
624. 14:15close and personal versus,
625. 14:17you know,
626. 14:18a million shareholders,
627. 14:19very different.
628. 14:21So my job at
629. 14:22the time was global CMO
630. 14:23and then eventually
631. 14:24global chief
632. 14:25commercial officer.
633. 14:26But coming in, he said,
634. 14:29and I want world
635. 14:30class brands.
636. 14:31I want world class marketing.
637. 14:33I need you to
638. 14:34figure out efficiency
639. 14:35that is global to local
640. 14:37but still unlock local.
641. 14:38So it was creating a system
642. 14:40for the company.
643. 14:41So we really tried
644. 14:43to figure out what's
645. 14:44a unifying global
646. 14:46kind of statement
647. 14:47to bring to bear across
648. 14:49all brands.
649. 14:50And the statement
650. 14:51was because a lot of these
651. 14:53were household products.
652. 14:55How do you take women
653. 14:56off their knees?
654. 14:57In many countries,
655. 14:59these are cleaning products.
656. 15:00And in most countries,
657. 15:02who claims women?
658. 15:04And that unifying statement
659. 15:08helped us
660. 15:09not only in terms of building
661. 15:10the brands.
662. 15:11It helped us
663. 15:12in our innovation
664. 15:13strategy, in terms
665. 15:14of how we thought
666. 15:15about innovating
667. 15:16the products,
668. 15:17how we thought
669. 15:18about manufacturing
670. 15:19strategies.
671. 15:20It became a unifier
672. 15:22that really went.
673. 15:24I find it
674. 15:25pleasant and amazing
675. 15:26with haven't talked about
676. 15:27AI yet, but we will.
677. 15:30But where
678. 15:30I'd like to transition
679. 15:32slightly is
680. 15:33I love the Doritos story
681. 15:35and the
682. 15:36the crash, the Super Bowl,
683. 15:38because when
684. 15:38you think about it,
685. 15:39it was early.
686. 15:40UGC so sort of early creator
687. 15:43like your customers
688. 15:44were your creators
689. 15:45as opposed to
690. 15:46maybe an influencer
691. 15:47or something.
692. 15:48I'd love to hear the story
693. 15:50about the difficulties
694. 15:52of getting that through,
695. 15:53and how you thought
696. 15:55about taking that risk
697. 15:57and pushing that idea,
698. 15:59and then the challenges
699. 16:00that you had to
700. 16:01get it through.
701. 16:02But then the part
702. 16:03two to that,
703. 16:03I would love to hear
704. 16:04about your thoughts
705. 16:06on modern day
706. 16:07social influencer, you know?
707. 16:10UGC all of this,
708. 16:11now that you've had a little
709. 16:12bit of time
710. 16:13to sort of
711. 16:13look back on that experience
712. 16:15and creator,
713. 16:16influencer and social
714. 16:17certainly come a long way.
715. 16:18So I'm going to preface that
716. 16:20with a
717. 16:21philosophical statement,
718. 16:23which is AI.
719. 16:25UGC you name the enabler,
720. 16:28they're a means to an end.
721. 16:29And unfortunately,
722. 16:31I think, you know,
723. 16:32whether it was the internet
724. 16:33and whether it's
725. 16:34AI today,
726. 16:35people make the mistake
727. 16:36that that's the end.
728. 16:37And I
729. 16:39would tell you that back
730. 16:40when I joined Doritos,
731. 16:42now this was 2006, Doritos,
732. 16:45which is a multi-billion
733. 16:47dollar brand.
734. 16:48The second largest
735. 16:49brand that Frito has
736. 16:51was in a tailspin,
737. 16:52downward decline.
738. 16:54And the kiss of death
739. 16:55at Frito-Lay is
740. 16:56when your own drivers
741. 16:58won't stop the brand.
742. 17:00You are dead on arrival.
743. 17:02That's how bad Doritos was.
744. 17:05And this was
745. 17:07one of those transformations
746. 17:08where we had to
747. 17:09really take a step
748. 17:10back and say,
749. 17:11we got to win
750. 17:12over our consumers.
751. 17:13We got to win
752. 17:14over our own sales force.
753. 17:16We have to
754. 17:17win over our own employees.
755. 17:20And this goes back again
756. 17:21to this timeless and story
757. 17:23that you tell
758. 17:24in a timely way.
759. 17:25And we really unlearned
760. 17:28everything
761. 17:28that had been going on
762. 17:30with Doritos.
763. 17:30We said, wipe it clean.
764. 17:32And let's really understand
765. 17:33the timeless story
766. 17:34of Doritos.
767. 17:35And the timeless
768. 17:35story of Doritos
769. 17:36has always been
770. 17:37break the rules.
771. 17:39You know,
772. 17:39it's about standing
773. 17:41for things that you know
774. 17:43teens want to stand for.
775. 17:45It isn't about what
776. 17:46you were told to do,
777. 17:47it's about
778. 17:48what you want to do.
779. 17:49And maybe back
780. 17:50when Doritos was invented
781. 17:51back in the 1960s,
782. 17:53that could
783. 17:53have been Woodstock, right?
784. 17:55So the question is,
785. 17:56what was our modern day
786. 17:57Woodstock, right.
787. 17:58How do we give these kids
788. 18:01at the time
789. 18:02their 15 bytes of fame?
790. 18:04Yeah.
791. 18:04Now, that was the
792. 18:06consumer story.
793. 18:07Let me tell you
794. 18:08the business story
795. 18:08that we don't
796. 18:09talk about a lot.
797. 18:10At the time,
798. 18:11the chairman of the company
799. 18:12was in the renew,
800. 18:13and she challenged us to say,
801. 18:15I need marketing at Frito-Lay
802. 18:17not to be a support
803. 18:18function for sales,
804. 18:19and we need to start winning
805. 18:21Super Bowl again.
806. 18:22Go figure it out.
807. 18:23An now
808. 18:24you have to remember
809. 18:25at the time,
810. 18:26the winner of
811. 18:27every Super Bowl
812. 18:28was Anheuser-Busch.
813. 18:30So I studied them
814. 18:31and you know,
815. 18:32they had $100 million budget
816. 18:34to make
817. 18:34sure they always
818. 18:35had the winning
819. 18:36Super Bowl ad.
820. 18:37I had $5 million.
821. 18:39So how do you replicate
822. 18:43Budweiser?
823. 18:44Who makes 20 or 30 ads
824. 18:46that they then go test
825. 18:47and figure out
826. 18:48which one's going to do well,
827. 18:49how do I do that?
828. 18:50With $0 in
829. 18:52comes UGC, in comes
830. 18:54the consumer.
831. 18:55They do it for you for free.
832. 18:57And I would tell you
833. 18:5898% of what we got not doable
834. 19:02not arable.
835. 19:03But then you got 1 or 2%.
836. 19:05That was pretty darn good.
837. 19:06And then you figure
838. 19:08out the testing methodology
839. 19:09that Budweiser did.
840. 19:10We did the same methodology.
841. 19:12We bought the exact right
842. 19:14ad placement.
843. 19:15Rest is history.
844. 19:16So again,
845. 19:18it starts with the consumer
846. 19:19and business
847. 19:20problem to solve.
848. 19:21And then you look into
849. 19:23what is current,
850. 19:24what is the technology,
851. 19:26what is the culture,
852. 19:27and how do you put it
853. 19:29all together
854. 19:30not only to make it
855. 19:31a viable
856. 19:32consumer proposition,
857. 19:33but to also make it
858. 19:34a viable
859. 19:35business proposition?
860. 19:37And how do you feel about,
861. 19:40you know, influencer creator?
862. 19:41To me,
863. 19:42there is a difference
864. 19:43between an individual,
865. 19:45whether they
866. 19:46consider themselves
867. 19:47a creator or an influencer,
868. 19:48either by trade or
869. 19:50as an amateur side hustle.
870. 19:52Someone just I'm going to
871. 19:53go promote this product
872. 19:54because I love it
873. 19:55and I'm just going
874. 19:55to put it out there
875. 19:56and paid influencers.
876. 19:58So how do you see this
877. 19:59sort of
878. 20:00part of the market today
879. 20:01as it relates to authenticity
880. 20:03and the
881. 20:05consumer understanding
882. 20:06that this is very organic,
883. 20:08this individual,
884. 20:10as opposed to somebody who,
885. 20:12oh, this feels like
886. 20:13the company paid them
887. 20:14to shill their product.
888. 20:16It's a fine line,
889. 20:17and it's one
890. 20:18that is getting more
891. 20:19and more difficult
892. 20:20to navigate in today's world,
893. 20:22not just from an
894. 20:23influencer standpoint,
895. 20:24but from a culture war
896. 20:26standpoint. Politics.
897. 20:28We could go on
898. 20:29for hours on that topic,
899. 20:30but I'll give you an example.
900. 20:32You know, Jameson,
901. 20:33one of the
902. 20:35organic influencers
903. 20:37of the brand, was Lady Gaga.
904. 20:39She adored this brand.
905. 20:41It was in her writer
906. 20:43and what every company
907. 20:45wants to do,
908. 20:46or every person will try to
909. 20:48do, is they try
910. 20:49to, hey, let's monetize it.
911. 20:51Let's figure out
912. 20:51how to get her to be
913. 20:52an official spokesperson,
914. 20:53right?
915. 20:54No,
916. 20:56that's exactly what marketers
917. 20:58should not do,
918. 20:59because it
919. 21:00takes away
920. 21:00from the authenticity
921. 21:02and understanding
922. 21:05when you need to be authentic
923. 21:07and genuine
924. 21:08versus you're on a campaign,
925. 21:11you're trying to
926. 21:12get a specific message
927. 21:13out with your brand.
928. 21:14Yeah, get the paid influencer
929. 21:17because it's part of, again,
930. 21:19one of the media tools
931. 21:20that you're using in addition
932. 21:22to all the other ones
933. 21:23you are.
934. 21:24You know,
935. 21:24I'll give you a great example
936. 21:26of one of the
937. 21:27greatest influencers
938. 21:28that reached out to us.
939. 21:31Back to Doritos.
940. 21:32We got a phone call early
941. 21:34on when I was on Doritos
942. 21:35from Stephen Colbert,
943. 21:37and Stephen
944. 21:37Colbert
945. 21:38called up and said, hey,
946. 21:39I'm running for president
947. 21:40of the United States.
948. 21:41And we're like, okay.
949. 21:43And he goes, yeah,
950. 21:43I need a corporate sponsor
951. 21:45for Doritos.
952. 21:46And we're like,
953. 21:47or for my campaign,
954. 21:48and I want it to be Doritos.
955. 21:50And we said, okay, well,
956. 21:52how much do you want?
957. 21:52He said, not a dime.
958. 21:54And we're like, excuse us?
959. 21:56He said, yeah,
960. 21:57here's what I want.
961. 21:58I want Doritos.
962. 22:00You don't have to
963. 22:01pay me anything.
964. 22:02But one caveat.
965. 22:03You won't
966. 22:04know what I'm going to
967. 22:05say about it.
968. 22:06You won't get any
969. 22:07editing rights.
970. 22:08You will get
971. 22:09no approval rights.
972. 22:11You just have to trust me.
973. 22:12And of course, you know,
974. 22:14there's the standard.
975. 22:14You can't say anything,
976. 22:15you know, libel or illegal.
977. 22:17Yeah, blah
978. 22:18blah, blah, blah, blah.
979. 22:19He was fine with that.
980. 22:20And we said yes.
981. 22:22And what Stephen Colbert did
982. 22:25to put Doritos on the map
983. 22:26till this day is
984. 22:28you can't buy it.
985. 22:29You just could not buy it.
986. 22:31And before Stephen Colbert
987. 22:33in his last year
988. 22:34went off the air,
989. 22:35I actually went
990. 22:36into the studio audience.
991. 22:37And, you know,
992. 22:38I raised my hand in this Q&A
993. 22:40session and I just said,
994. 22:41hey, thank you.
995. 22:41And he's like, who are you?
996. 22:43And I said,
997. 22:44I'm that woman that you
998. 22:45called on Doritos
999. 22:4616 years ago.
1000. 22:48And he said, My God,
1001. 22:50that was one of
1002. 22:51the greatest things
1003. 22:52we ever did,
1004. 22:53and we never partnered
1005. 22:55officially together.
1006. 22:56It's a great story.
1007. 22:57That is fantastic.
1008. 22:58And you know
1009. 22:58what's in there
1010. 22:59in both this story
1011. 23:01and the S.C.
1012. 23:02Johnson story are like three
1013. 23:05very unique things,
1014. 23:07which I guess
1015. 23:07a question
1016. 23:08of learning and unlearning,
1017. 23:09or this fusion,
1018. 23:11which is from confusion.
1019. 23:12You bring fusion,
1020. 23:13I guess
1021. 23:13is the way to think about it.
1022. 23:15And to me,
1023. 23:16the biggest two statements
1024. 23:18you've made outside
1025. 23:19of obviously
1026. 23:20the weakness stuff
1027. 23:21and everything else
1028. 23:22is line number one is
1029. 23:25what we have to do for
1030. 23:28Doritos is break the rules.
1031. 23:29And for SC
1032. 23:31Johnson get women
1033. 23:33off their knees.
1034. 23:34And those two
1035. 23:35statements are more powerful
1036. 23:37than any open AI
1037. 23:38algorithm
1038. 23:39can ever put together.
1039. 23:41Speak a little bit
1040. 23:42about that,
1041. 23:42because it's almost like it's
1042. 23:44becoming so old school.
1043. 23:45You've gotten
1044. 23:46to ground truths
1045. 23:47in a world
1046. 23:48where people talk
1047. 23:48about truth and trust.
1048. 23:50You know, Rashad,
1049. 23:51you and I have
1050. 23:51talked about this a lot,
1051. 23:53and you guys
1052. 23:55have talked about it
1053. 23:55in previous podcasts
1054. 23:57about this notion of
1055. 23:59AI without hi is no I
1056. 24:01and I could be, as you said,
1057. 24:04human intelligence,
1058. 24:05hard intelligence,
1059. 24:06whatever you want to call it.
1060. 24:07Right? Right.
1061. 24:08AI is as good as the prompt
1062. 24:11you give it.
1063. 24:11And yeah,
1064. 24:13it can do amazing things
1065. 24:15at amazing speeds.
1066. 24:17It can create things
1067. 24:19that take human beings
1068. 24:21a long time to do.
1069. 24:22Yes, yes, yes and yes
1070. 24:24from an efficiency play.
1071. 24:26Huge.
1072. 24:26And because
1073. 24:27of those efficiency
1074. 24:28plays, boy,
1075. 24:29it can help you
1076. 24:30redefine
1077. 24:31services rendered
1078. 24:33how you price services
1079. 24:34like we could go on. Right.
1080. 24:36But all of that
1081. 24:38is predicated on
1082. 24:39if you don't have
1083. 24:41a competitive advantage
1084. 24:43on how you prompt AI,
1085. 24:46it will be a commodity
1086. 24:48in what it gives you versus
1087. 24:51it giving you
1088. 24:53something that gives
1089. 24:54you an edge
1090. 24:55in the marketplace.
1091. 24:56And to your point,
1092. 24:58this notion
1093. 24:59of get women off their knees.
1094. 25:02If that is a prompt to AI,
1095. 25:04tell me, AI,
1096. 25:06what are all the things
1097. 25:07that women are facing
1098. 25:08because they are
1099. 25:09on their knees, right?
1100. 25:11What it will give you
1101. 25:12in return as fodder?
1102. 25:25Having insurance isn't the
1103. 25:27same as having State Farm.
1104. 25:28It's like wanting
1105. 25:29to hear my take on unboxing
1106. 25:31and getting my advice
1107. 25:32on being bossy instead.
1108. 25:34Let me tell you what
1109. 25:34I think again.
1110. 25:36Hierarchy over ideas.
1111. 25:38Figure it out. Okay, okay.
1112. 25:41You wouldn't settle
1113. 25:42for any advice on leadership
1114. 25:44in today's business world.
1115. 25:46So don't
1116. 25:46settle for any insurance.
1117. 25:48Get the real deal.
1118. 25:49Like a good neighbor.
1119. 25:51State farm is there.
1120. 25:53Did you know what
1121. 25:53the Sam's Club
1122. 25:54app your technically
1123. 25:55in the club
1124. 25:55no matter where you are.
1125. 25:57Like this is a club.
1126. 25:59This is also a club
1127. 26:02and this is a club.
1128. 26:05My bad.
1129. 26:06Come join us Sam's club.
1130. 26:17And at one of our events
1131. 26:18and you know, whatever,
1132. 26:20we're in the day
1133. 26:21and age where we can say
1134. 26:22you said ai
1135. 26:22the shit out of yourself,
1136. 26:24you know,
1137. 26:25what does that mean?
1138. 26:26And you know, practically
1139. 26:27for particularly
1140. 26:29maybe the senior executive
1141. 26:31who's in a C-suite role
1142. 26:32or looking to
1143. 26:33continue on a C-suite path
1144. 26:35into more senior
1145. 26:36operator roles.
1146. 26:37Your first session
1147. 26:38at our first Athena Project
1148. 26:40event ever,
1149. 26:40if you remember, was
1150. 26:41why the CMO should be
1151. 26:42the CEO,
1152. 26:43which was just great.
1153. 26:44But how should you
1154. 26:45ai the shit out of yourself
1155. 26:46outside of,
1156. 26:47you know,
1157. 26:48learning about prompting?
1158. 26:49But what else?
1159. 26:50So I would say, you know,
1160. 26:52we as human beings,
1161. 26:54again, it's not a criticism.
1162. 26:57We mistake
1163. 26:58activity for results.
1164. 27:00Yeah, we sure.
1165. 27:01Do, because we want to feel
1166. 27:03that we're adding value.
1167. 27:05We don't want to be guilty
1168. 27:06of not earning our paycheck.
1169. 27:08I get it,
1170. 27:09but you now have
1171. 27:11a secret assistant
1172. 27:12that will tell you
1173. 27:13the truth
1174. 27:14and is not going to
1175. 27:16lie to you, right?
1176. 27:17This is your secret
1177. 27:19confidant.
1178. 27:19People ask me about mentors
1179. 27:21all the time.
1180. 27:23Oh, I wish I could find
1181. 27:24someone who tell me
1182. 27:25what it's really like.
1183. 27:26Well, you got one.
1184. 27:28And guess what?
1185. 27:29It's confidential.
1186. 27:30Yes, it's just you and AI.
1187. 27:33So that's what I say.
1188. 27:36You know
1189. 27:36AI the shit out of yourself.
1190. 27:38Not just as a professional,
1191. 27:40but as a parent.
1192. 27:41It doesn't matter.
1193. 27:42As a friend, as a sibling,
1194. 27:44whatever your life
1195. 27:45entails,
1196. 27:47you now have an expert
1197. 27:49who can tell you
1198. 27:51how to unlearn and relearn
1199. 27:54to be more indispensable.
1200. 27:57Yes.
1201. 27:58It's like
1202. 27:58having a personalized, world
1203. 28:00class teacher
1204. 28:01who's willing
1205. 28:03to give you
1206. 28:04corporal punishment.
1207. 28:05But of the mental kind,
1208. 28:06yes, right.
1209. 28:07Which I think
1210. 28:08is sort of very,
1211. 28:08very important.
1212. 28:09And, you know,
1213. 28:10one of the things
1214. 28:11that you mentioned,
1215. 28:12and I remember this
1216. 28:13because you said
1217. 28:14one of the questions
1218. 28:15to ask is
1219. 28:16ask you to
1220. 28:17write your obituary.
1221. 28:18Yes.
1222. 28:19And I did
1223. 28:20one of the questions
1224. 28:21I always ask,
1225. 28:22and it's kind of fun.
1226. 28:23And I tell people,
1227. 28:24don't ask like,
1228. 28:25tell me about
1229. 28:26an mukherjee, right?
1230. 28:27But say or don't
1231. 28:28tell me about results back.
1232. 28:30What I say is tell me why
1233. 28:31tobacco sucks.
1234. 28:33Yeah,
1235. 28:34it's a much more
1236. 28:35interesting answer.
1237. 28:36Then tell me about
1238. 28:37why I'm so good or
1239. 28:38tell me about myself.
1240. 28:40You know, it's so funny.
1241. 28:41Back to prompts, right?
1242. 28:42We're back to prompts again,
1243. 28:43and I did a recent exercise
1244. 28:46that I've been waiting
1245. 28:47to tell
1246. 28:47both of you guys
1247. 28:48because I knew
1248. 28:48this podcast was coming up.
1249. 28:50So I was at a plane and,
1250. 28:51you know, being on a plane,
1251. 28:52as you guys know,
1252. 28:53it's like that one time
1253. 28:54where you can
1254. 28:55just not be disturbed.
1255. 28:56And in this
1256. 28:57particular flight,
1257. 28:58the WiFi just would not work.
1258. 28:59So I couldn't
1259. 29:00watch anything, do anything.
1260. 29:02And I was just
1261. 29:03looking out the window
1262. 29:04and I just I saw the sky.
1263. 29:06It was the sunset.
1264. 29:07It was gorgeous.
1265. 29:08And I said, hey,
1266. 29:09what gives me joy in life?
1267. 29:11And I wrote
1268. 29:13probably 40
1269. 29:14different things
1270. 29:15that gave me joy in life.
1271. 29:17A perfect bite, a sunset
1272. 29:20when my phone lights up
1273. 29:23with one of my kids
1274. 29:24calling me anything right
1275. 29:26when my husband gives me
1276. 29:27a cup of coffee
1277. 29:28in the morning, right?
1278. 29:30And I wrote it all down.
1279. 29:31And of course I ai it.
1280. 29:33And I said, hey,
1281. 29:34if these things
1282. 29:35are giving me joy,
1283. 29:36what more should I be doing
1284. 29:38that I'm not doing now?
1285. 29:39And I got some fascinating
1286. 29:41answers back. Yes.
1287. 29:43And that is a big form
1288. 29:44of learning and unlearning
1289. 29:45because we keep
1290. 29:46we have to unlearn that
1291. 29:47technology isn't
1292. 29:48going to be like Skynet
1293. 29:50to come and get us.
1294. 29:51This is actually going to be
1295. 29:52something that potentially
1296. 29:54will make us like
1297. 29:55live longer,
1298. 29:56live better, live deeper,
1299. 29:57which is give you more joy.
1300. 29:59Yes. Over to you, drew.
1301. 30:01This is a little
1302. 30:02bit more mundane,
1303. 30:04but you know,
1304. 30:05you have the role of
1305. 30:07chief marketing.
1306. 30:08And then you also
1307. 30:09went to achieve
1308. 30:09commercial officer role
1309. 30:11and then into
1310. 30:11a chief executive
1311. 30:12officer role.
1312. 30:13And I've always followed
1313. 30:15titles very closely,
1314. 30:16being an event guy.
1315. 30:17And we've seen the rise
1316. 30:18of the chief growth
1317. 30:19and or commercial officer.
1318. 30:21And there's still the chief
1319. 30:23marketing officer.
1320. 30:24And in this desire to ascend
1321. 30:27into more senior
1322. 30:28C-suite and operating roles,
1323. 30:30could you share
1324. 30:32if you're coming into
1325. 30:33a new CEO role
1326. 30:35and you're hiring
1327. 30:36or inheriting
1328. 30:37a chief
1329. 30:38marketing officer
1330. 30:39and a chief growth
1331. 30:40and or commercial officer,
1332. 30:41which might be
1333. 30:42the same person,
1334. 30:43how are you seeing
1335. 30:44how are you seeing
1336. 30:45these roles evolve?
1337. 30:46How are they different?
1338. 30:48And for the chief
1339. 30:49marketing officer
1340. 30:50that wants to continue
1341. 30:52to ascend into more senior
1342. 30:53operating roles,
1343. 30:54should they
1344. 30:55be aspiring to be the chief
1345. 30:57commercial or growth officer,
1346. 30:59is that a step along the way
1347. 31:00to more senior
1348. 31:01operating positions?
1349. 31:02And what is
1350. 31:03the role of the Chief Growth
1351. 31:05and Commercial officer,
1352. 31:06and should
1353. 31:07marketing report into
1354. 31:08that person?
1355. 31:09And I'm just curious
1356. 31:10how you see this
1357. 31:11sort of title,
1358. 31:12alphabet soup evolving.
1359. 31:13Yeah, you said it right.
1360. 31:15It's become alphabet soup.
1361. 31:17And people are too into the
1362. 31:19the letters versus
1363. 31:21the intent behind
1364. 31:24why you would
1365. 31:25have any of this.
1366. 31:26And it goes back to again,
1367. 31:27every company might define
1368. 31:29it differently
1369. 31:30given its system.
1370. 31:31But let's take a step back.
1371. 31:33So again,
1372. 31:34Rashad and I
1373. 31:35worked very closely
1374. 31:36at the Booth School
1375. 31:38at University of Chicago.
1376. 31:39He's been very gracious
1377. 31:40to be an instructor
1378. 31:41in our CEO course,
1379. 31:43global CEO, of course.
1380. 31:44And our global CEO course
1381. 31:46is predicated on a study
1382. 31:48that was done
1383. 31:48around the S&P 500.
1384. 31:50And we did a study
1385. 31:51to understand
1386. 31:52how many companies
1387. 31:54over a ten year
1388. 31:55period have been able
1389. 31:57to consistently
1390. 31:58beat their TSR
1391. 32:00total shareholder
1392. 32:00return for their industry
1393. 32:03in ten years.
1394. 32:04Believe it or not, only one
1395. 32:06company has
1396. 32:06been able to do it
1397. 32:07ten years straight.
1398. 32:08And it's
1399. 32:09not even a consumer packaged
1400. 32:10goods company, okay?
1401. 32:12It's a professional
1402. 32:14uniform company.
1403. 32:15And what we learned
1404. 32:16and by the way,
1405. 32:17all the big names
1406. 32:18that you expect to be
1407. 32:19in this list,
1408. 32:20you know,
1409. 32:20the Amazons, the whatever,
1410. 32:22none of them are in there.
1411. 32:23But the companies
1412. 32:24that perform the best
1413. 32:26were those that focused
1414. 32:27on organic growth
1415. 32:30and organic growth.
1416. 32:31It's about getting the return
1417. 32:32on the dollar you've spent.
1418. 32:34And so
1419. 32:35that is what a company
1420. 32:36needs to focus on.
1421. 32:38Is that organic growth.
1422. 32:40Now for some companies
1423. 32:41that may be the chief
1424. 32:43marketing officer,
1425. 32:44if you're a consumer packaged
1426. 32:45goods company,
1427. 32:46for some companies,
1428. 32:47it might be their R&D officer
1429. 32:49because they're a
1430. 32:50pharmaceutical company.
1431. 32:51The issue isn't
1432. 32:53what the letter is.
1433. 32:54The issue is,
1434. 32:55have you identified
1435. 32:56the person in
1436. 32:57that organization
1437. 32:58that is responsible
1438. 32:59for architecting
1439. 33:00growth, organic growth?
1440. 33:02And that person should be
1441. 33:05the CEO's right
1442. 33:07hand person,
1443. 33:08because no
1444. 33:08CEO is going to be successful
1445. 33:10if they can't drive
1446. 33:12consistent growth.
1447. 33:14America's been always known
1448. 33:15as the innovation
1449. 33:16economy,
1450. 33:17as innovation has died
1451. 33:19because it's gotten riskier.
1452. 33:21People are
1453. 33:21making their numbers
1454. 33:23through productivity.
1455. 33:25Nothing wrong with that.
1456. 33:26But after a while,
1457. 33:27when you take the fat out,
1458. 33:29maybe even start
1459. 33:30taking out
1460. 33:31some of the muscle,
1461. 33:32and then when you start
1462. 33:34taking out the bone
1463. 33:35and you got nothing left.
1464. 33:37That's when we see
1465. 33:38companies die.
1466. 33:40That's interesting in that,
1467. 33:41in the times that we've
1468. 33:42talked about this
1469. 33:43at our events,
1470. 33:44I've never thought
1471. 33:45of the angle of
1472. 33:46your contention
1473. 33:47as to
1474. 33:48why the CMO
1475. 33:48should be the CEOs,
1476. 33:49because and having been
1477. 33:51a sell side
1478. 33:51analyst on Wall Street
1479. 33:52for a time in my life,
1480. 33:53I understand
1481. 33:55anybody can do
1482. 33:55cash management
1483. 33:56or what we might want to call
1484. 33:57financial engineering.
1485. 33:58Anybody can
1486. 34:00buy a bunch of companies
1487. 34:01can buy their way to growth.
1488. 34:03But your contention is that
1489. 34:04the CMO
1490. 34:05is the most qualified
1491. 34:06to drive organic growth,
1492. 34:08which is really the ticket
1493. 34:10to consistent TSR over time.
1494. 34:12Is that really
1495. 34:12the fundamental
1496. 34:13sort of argument?
1497. 34:14It really is.
1498. 34:15I think that's fascinating.
1499. 34:16I never thought of it
1500. 34:17that way.
1501. 34:17Yeah, and that means the CMO
1502. 34:19can't just be about
1503. 34:20the old school
1504. 34:21definition of marketing.
1505. 34:23CMO has to
1506. 34:24think about growth.
1507. 34:24So you got to understand
1508. 34:25what you're doing
1509. 34:26and how it connects
1510. 34:27with the manufacturing system
1511. 34:28and the selling system.
1512. 34:29And it's about understanding
1513. 34:32how to connect demand,
1514. 34:35predictive demand
1515. 34:37to how you supply it
1516. 34:38in a way that gives you
1517. 34:39competitive advantage.
1518. 34:40That's it.
1519. 34:41It's as simple as that.
1520. 34:43Amazing.
1521. 34:44Well,
1522. 34:45now we're going to move
1523. 34:46to your most recent phases.
1524. 34:48And your most recent phases
1525. 34:50obviously were the years
1526. 34:51at record.
1527. 34:53And when you're leaving
1528. 34:54a record
1529. 34:55and to
1530. 34:55what you are doing now,
1531. 34:57so could we first begin
1532. 34:59with what you are doing now?
1533. 35:00What made you leave
1534. 35:02Bernard Ricardo?
1535. 35:02Than we could talk
1536. 35:03a little bit
1537. 35:03more about those things,
1538. 35:04because I'm
1539. 35:05sure in your new next career
1540. 35:08you also combine
1541. 35:10some learning and unlearning.
1542. 35:12Oh my gosh,
1543. 35:12did I ever so I left
1544. 35:15no, Richard.
1545. 35:16Not because I wanted to,
1546. 35:18but because for work
1547. 35:20life balance, I had to.
1548. 35:22You know,
1549. 35:22I've always believed
1550. 35:24people can have it all,
1551. 35:25but not every day
1552. 35:26and over a lifetime.
1553. 35:27And I was faced with
1554. 35:28a family crisis.
1555. 35:30My husband was very sick,
1556. 35:32and I just couldn't
1557. 35:33do the commute
1558. 35:33to New York in Paris
1559. 35:34from Dallas.
1560. 35:35So I said, okay, I'm
1561. 35:36going to take a break.
1562. 35:37Once I get him better
1563. 35:38and he is better,
1564. 35:40I'll come back.
1565. 35:41I'll do something
1566. 35:41in the corporate world again.
1567. 35:43And then I had two years
1568. 35:45taking care of my husband,
1569. 35:47and I learned
1570. 35:49or unlearned
1571. 35:51that what made me successful
1572. 35:53doesn't necessarily
1573. 35:54need to make me successful
1574. 35:56moving forward.
1575. 35:57And what made me passionate
1576. 36:00throughout my career
1577. 36:01is that creativity
1578. 36:02has been the oxygen
1579. 36:04to growth, people
1580. 36:05growth, business
1581. 36:06growth, brand
1582. 36:07growth, whatever
1583. 36:08you want to call it.
1584. 36:09Creativity creates
1585. 36:10possibilities.
1586. 36:11And so I've always wanted
1587. 36:13to give people a voice
1588. 36:15for their desires,
1589. 36:17what they enjoyed in life.
1590. 36:19So instead of
1591. 36:20doing it through brand
1592. 36:21building is now doing it
1593. 36:23through filmmaking.
1594. 36:24And I've opened up
1595. 36:25my own film company,
1596. 36:26which is why I love talking
1597. 36:28and working
1598. 36:28with your daughter.
1599. 36:29And,
1600. 36:31you know,
1601. 36:31I've done it, opened up
1602. 36:33the company in India,
1603. 36:34and I opened up a company
1604. 36:35here in the US,
1605. 36:36finished
1606. 36:37my first
1607. 36:38regional Indian film,
1608. 36:39which is now
1609. 36:40in post-production.
1610. 36:41I'm now in pre-production
1611. 36:42for my first Netflix film
1612. 36:44here in the United States,
1613. 36:45and the vision of my company
1614. 36:47is to
1615. 36:47give voice to the voiceless
1616. 36:49so people can hear
1617. 36:51and feel that their voice,
1618. 36:53when they feel not heard,
1619. 36:55they're not alone.
1620. 36:56And it's
1621. 36:57been an incredible journey
1622. 36:59because people think of,
1623. 37:02you know,
1624. 37:02when you're
1625. 37:02in the business world,
1626. 37:03oh, she's a creative person.
1627. 37:05Oh, she's a marketer.
1628. 37:06Oh, we all forget.
1629. 37:08I don't care what industry
1630. 37:09we work
1631. 37:10in, whether filmmaking,
1632. 37:12pharmaceuticals, fintech.
1633. 37:14I don't care
1634. 37:14what industry you're in.
1635. 37:16Guess what unites us?
1636. 37:17We're a human being working
1637. 37:19with other human beings
1638. 37:20to create
1639. 37:21something made
1640. 37:22by human beings
1641. 37:23so other people can sell
1642. 37:25or distributed
1643. 37:26by human beings, such
1644. 37:28that other human beings
1645. 37:30can buy it or experience it.
1646. 37:33We're in the human
1647. 37:33being business.
1648. 37:34I would completely agree.
1649. 37:36And again,
1650. 37:36revisiting Sir John Haggerty,
1651. 37:38when I asked him
1652. 37:39what creativity was,
1653. 37:40he said,
1654. 37:41creativity is an expression
1655. 37:43of a human self, right?
1656. 37:45Which is
1657. 37:46particularly remarkable.
1658. 37:47But what I particularly like
1659. 37:49and is
1660. 37:50you applied to
1661. 37:52of your alliance to yourself.
1662. 37:54So the first one was break
1663. 37:57the rules.
1664. 37:58So instead of going back
1665. 38:00to doing the same thing,
1666. 38:02another CEO role
1667. 38:03or another leadership role,
1668. 38:04you obviously
1669. 38:05you stay connected
1670. 38:06to the world of business
1671. 38:06by guiding other CEOs
1672. 38:08through the UFC CEO program.
1673. 38:10But again, you're helping now
1674. 38:11people grow to become
1675. 38:13CEOs or learn
1676. 38:14how to manage that.
1677. 38:15So you did that.
1678. 38:16And you also
1679. 38:18by basically giving
1680. 38:20voice to the voiceless
1681. 38:22is your version
1682. 38:23of get women off their knees.
1683. 38:25Yes.
1684. 38:26Which is pretty amazing.
1685. 38:28Is there anything else
1686. 38:29true that you would
1687. 38:30like to ask
1688. 38:31or an you would like to say?
1689. 38:33Maybe the question
1690. 38:34I would ask.
1691. 38:35And there's been
1692. 38:36lots of great lessons
1693. 38:36throughout the conversation
1694. 38:38for the younger people
1695. 38:39coming up into the business
1696. 38:41of marketing and advertising.
1697. 38:43We talked about
1698. 38:44AI and prompting
1699. 38:46and but what's
1700. 38:47another great
1701. 38:47piece of advice,
1702. 38:48given that there's fear,
1703. 38:51given that there's
1704. 38:52also excitement around AI,
1705. 38:54the the culture is fraught
1706. 38:56with all sorts of things
1707. 38:57that make people
1708. 38:59either upset or stressful.
1709. 39:00But what's your advice
1710. 39:01for young people today
1711. 39:02coming into the workforce?
1712. 39:04So a few things.
1713. 39:06Let me start
1714. 39:07from a job perspective.
1715. 39:09You know,
1716. 39:09everybody wants to get ahead.
1717. 39:11Everybody feels like,
1718. 39:13gosh, everybody else
1719. 39:14is smarter than me.
1720. 39:15And gosh,
1721. 39:17who's going to listen to
1722. 39:17what I have to say?
1723. 39:19It's that imposter
1724. 39:20syndrome that
1725. 39:20I think we all have
1726. 39:22when none of us
1727. 39:23are imposters.
1728. 39:24So back to your
1729. 39:26confidential confidante.
1730. 39:28If you're
1731. 39:29working at a company
1732. 39:30and you have a bunch of ideas
1733. 39:31or a bunch of things
1734. 39:32that you think
1735. 39:33maybe could be interesting,
1736. 39:35tell your AI tool
1737. 39:38what your idea is.
1738. 39:40Let them tell you.
1739. 39:41Oh, yeah, it's
1740. 39:41been done before.
1741. 39:42Oh. That's interesting.
1742. 39:43Like you've got
1743. 39:44a secret confidant
1744. 39:46who can give you confidence,
1745. 39:48use it,
1746. 39:49and never think that
1747. 39:51just because something
1748. 39:52has been done before,
1749. 39:54it can't be done again.
1750. 39:56But with a new spin
1751. 39:57or in a new industry,
1752. 39:59you know
1753. 39:59there are different ways
1754. 40:00of making an impact.
1755. 40:01One of the things that I told
1756. 40:03my teams always study
1757. 40:04best practices,
1758. 40:06not necessarily
1759. 40:07just to emulate them,
1760. 40:08but so you can
1761. 40:09invent your own.
1762. 40:10And everyone
1763. 40:12has that ability.
1764. 40:13So use the tools
1765. 40:15that you have.
1766. 40:16You've got AI today
1767. 40:18that can give you an edge
1768. 40:19that I didn't have
1769. 40:21when I was growing up
1770. 40:22in the career. Right.
1771. 40:23And the second thing
1772. 40:23that I would say back to,
1773. 40:25if there's one last thing,
1774. 40:26my last parting statement,
1775. 40:28it's a harsh
1776. 40:29world, family, culture,
1777. 40:32whatever you want to call it.
1778. 40:33It's harsh.
1779. 40:34And the reason
1780. 40:35I I'm going to end
1781. 40:36with where I started,
1782. 40:37not just understand
1783. 40:39your weaknesses.
1784. 40:40Embrace them.
1785. 40:41Embrace every part of you.
1786. 40:43The good, the bad,
1787. 40:45the embarrassing,
1788. 40:46the things you don't want
1789. 40:48to admit to somebody else.
1790. 40:49All of that is okay.
1791. 40:51Give yourself grace.
1792. 40:52And when you learn to
1793. 40:54love all of you,
1794. 40:56it will not only unleash you
1795. 40:58but help others to
1796. 40:59love themselves.
1797. 41:00And when that happens,
1798. 41:02possibilities happen.
1799. 41:04That's wonderful. Anne.
1800. 41:05Thank you, amazing.
1801. 41:07And thank you and.
1802. 41:09So honored to be on this.
1803. 41:10And you know,
1804. 41:11you're like
1805. 41:11my favorite people.
1806. 41:12So thank you.
1807. 41:13So much for this.
1808. 41:14Seeing you
1809. 41:14in a couple of weeks too.
1810. 41:15We're very excited.
1811. 41:16We're very excited.
1812. 41:22So drew what did you think.
1813. 41:24Well it's an
1814. 41:26she's always fantastic,
1815. 41:28always enlightening,
1816. 41:30always a little
1817. 41:30bit controversial.
1818. 41:33Everything you want
1819. 41:33in a guest
1820. 41:34I think there was a string
1821. 41:36of on learnings
1822. 41:37that she referred to
1823. 41:39and mentioned and several
1824. 41:40on bossing moments
1825. 41:41throughout her career.
1826. 41:42And it seems like on bossing
1827. 41:44and on learning
1828. 41:45yourself
1829. 41:46is just a part of her
1830. 41:47operating sort of system.
1831. 41:50It's how she approaches
1832. 41:52each new challenge,
1833. 41:53each new opportunity.
1834. 41:54Like you,
1835. 41:55I took a lot of notes
1836. 41:56and then I decided
1837. 41:57there were so many notes
1838. 41:58I had to circle the stuff
1839. 41:59that stood out the most,
1840. 42:00and then I had to, like,
1841. 42:02start the circle.
1842. 42:03So to get to, you know,
1843. 42:04even if you were.
1844. 42:05But you were some that,
1845. 42:07you know,
1846. 42:07I thought were very,
1847. 42:08very powerful,
1848. 42:09obviously, one
1849. 42:10was that the businesses
1850. 42:12that really grow over time
1851. 42:13and create shareholder value
1852. 42:15tend to be
1853. 42:16the ones
1854. 42:16who basically eventually
1855. 42:18have to rely on
1856. 42:18organic growth
1857. 42:19and organic growth,
1858. 42:20whether it comes from a CMO
1859. 42:22or a Sego,
1860. 42:23a positions
1861. 42:24that person have not to be
1862. 42:25the CEO,
1863. 42:26to be very close to the CEO,
1864. 42:28but the focus
1865. 42:29is less on communications
1866. 42:30and more on growth,
1867. 42:32if that makes sense.
1868. 42:33That was,
1869. 42:33you know, clearly one.
1870. 42:35For me, the two most powerful
1871. 42:37things was
1872. 42:38how everything was grounded
1873. 42:40in a combination
1874. 42:42of creativity and humanity.
1875. 42:44Those two statements of both,
1876. 42:47let's break
1877. 42:47the rules for Doritos
1878. 42:49and get women
1879. 42:50off their knees.
1880. 42:51For SC Johnson,
1881. 42:53both drove their success,
1882. 42:56their global positioning,
1883. 42:57incredible stuff
1884. 42:59like the Super Bowl.
1885. 43:00But then she applied it
1886. 43:02to herself.
1887. 43:03And so one of my
1888. 43:03learnings around learning is
1889. 43:05I don't have to go back
1890. 43:06to being a CEO
1891. 43:08to make impact
1892. 43:09and make big changes.
1893. 43:12And in that way,
1894. 43:14she both broke her rules
1895. 43:15and now is focused
1896. 43:16on being a filmmaker,
1897. 43:17giving voice
1898. 43:19to the voiceless.
1899. 43:20So the ability
1900. 43:21to reinvent yourself
1901. 43:23but reinvent yourself around
1902. 43:24humanity and creativity,
1903. 43:26which is the through line
1904. 43:27I thought was both
1905. 43:28a great learning
1906. 43:29and unlearning.
1907. 43:31Know for sure.
1908. 43:32One thing that she touched on
1909. 43:33but didn't
1910. 43:34we didn't really go
1911. 43:35deep on it,
1912. 43:35but I think
1913. 43:37it's really, really important
1914. 43:38right now.
1915. 43:38And when she talked
1916. 43:40about the Doritos,
1917. 43:41truck drivers
1918. 43:41didn't even want it
1919. 43:42on their trucks.
1920. 43:44That marketing
1921. 43:45and then being the leader
1922. 43:46of a brand or a company,
1923. 43:49the employee experience
1924. 43:50is as critical
1925. 43:52as the consumer
1926. 43:54sort of
1927. 43:54reception of your brand
1928. 43:56and your marketing.
1929. 43:57So I think there's also
1930. 43:58this idea of
1931. 44:00whether you're marketing
1932. 44:01in support of sales,
1933. 44:03whether you're the CEO
1934. 44:04running the entire company,
1935. 44:06that employee experience,
1936. 44:07and having those employees
1937. 44:09maybe need to unlearn
1938. 44:10if the brand
1939. 44:11has not been that
1940. 44:12well received
1941. 44:12or has been dying
1942. 44:13on the vine, or is,
1943. 44:14you know, to
1944. 44:15to unlearn
1945. 44:16and embrace this brand again,
1946. 44:18and that's
1947. 44:18also part of your job
1948. 44:19as the CMO.
1949. 44:20And the CEO
1950. 44:21is to get your employees,
1951. 44:23your best brand ambassadors
1952. 44:24outside of
1953. 44:24perhaps your customers,
1954. 44:26to be excited
1955. 44:27about your brand.
1956. 44:28It's the employee
1957. 44:28experience, too.
1958. 44:29So the unlearning really is
1959. 44:32we should actually
1960. 44:34not run away
1961. 44:35from our weaknesses,
1962. 44:36but embrace our weaknesses.
1963. 44:37Understand the weakness
1964. 44:39because as you said,
1965. 44:40we always have them,
1966. 44:41so we don't spend
1967. 44:42a whole bunch of time
1968. 44:43trying to solve the weakness,
1969. 44:44but be aware of them
1970. 44:45and offset them
1971. 44:46with other people on our team
1972. 44:47or what we do.
1973. 44:48But then to
1974. 44:49also focus a lot on threats,
1975. 44:51because in our threats,
1976. 44:53if we do not focus on them,
1977. 44:55they could
1978. 44:56either be
1979. 44:56the seeds of our failure,
1980. 44:58but if we focus,
1981. 44:59it could be
1982. 45:00the opportunities.
1983. 45:01Well, one other thing
1984. 45:02I'd say
1985. 45:03is we now have an interesting
1986. 45:04little pattern
1987. 45:04happening of look,
1988. 45:05I'm bossing.
1989. 45:06This podcast
1990. 45:07is designed to help
1991. 45:08people be better leaders
1992. 45:09and better executives.
1993. 45:10Yeah, now,
1994. 45:11like in their current role.
1995. 45:12But now we've had Jim
1996. 45:13McCann and and Mukherjee,
1997. 45:15two of the smartest,
1998. 45:16most accomplished
1999. 45:17and interesting
2000. 45:18people in executives
2001. 45:19anywhere
2002. 45:20who have essentially both
2003. 45:21fired themselves and left
2004. 45:22voluntarily
2005. 45:23for family reasons.
2006. 45:24Jim fired himself
2007. 45:25the ultimate on bossing move.
2008. 45:27So on.
2009. 45:28Bossing is not just about
2010. 45:30okay,
2011. 45:30I need to unlearn
2012. 45:31and on boss myself
2013. 45:33in my current role
2014. 45:34to be a better
2015. 45:34leader executive.
2016. 45:35It could be just,
2017. 45:36you know what?
2018. 45:37If you've been thinking
2019. 45:37about ambushing yourself,
2020. 45:39go ahead and do it. Yes.
2021. 45:41And why
2022. 45:41they unboxed or deep boss
2023. 45:43they did not
2024. 45:43unleash or delete.
2025. 45:45They are still leaders.
2026. 45:46That's right.
2027. 45:46Which is very important.
2028. 45:47And then the last one I think
2029. 45:49is a little bit
2030. 45:49more process oriented,
2031. 45:51which is given the year
2032. 45:53she spent, you know,
2033. 45:54across four major companies,
2034. 45:56she reminds us
2035. 45:57that each company is similar
2036. 45:59in some ways,
2037. 46:00but very different,
2038. 46:01and that each time
2039. 46:02you join a company,
2040. 46:03you must understand
2041. 46:05the system.
2042. 46:06So the system of craft
2043. 46:07and the system of Pepsi
2044. 46:09were very different,
2045. 46:10though they were both food
2046. 46:11and packaged goods,
2047. 46:12but in the way
2048. 46:13the manufacturing
2049. 46:14and distribution
2050. 46:15and that meant
2051. 46:16how marketing code could not
2052. 46:18work was very,
2053. 46:19very different.
2054. 46:20And the other is to sort of
2055. 46:22unlearn our belief
2056. 46:23that private companies
2057. 46:25don't have as much pressure
2058. 46:26as public companies. Right?
2059. 46:28So she, in fact, stressed
2060. 46:30that while they may not be
2061. 46:31a public
2062. 46:31accounting every quarter,
2063. 46:33there is a private
2064. 46:34accounting every quarter.
2065. 46:35But this time,
2066. 46:37the owner happens
2067. 46:38to be
2068. 46:39not somebody at Blackstone
2069. 46:41or somewhere else.
2070. 46:42They're sitting in the room,
2071. 46:44and they probably have
2072. 46:45both their own human
2073. 46:47name attached to the company,
2074. 46:49but also a large,
2075. 46:50if not all in that world.
2076. 46:52There vested
2077. 46:52interests are very real
2078. 46:54and very now, as opposed to
2079. 46:56maybe a board or,
2080. 46:57you know,
2081. 46:58a public company
2082. 46:58that has thousands
2083. 46:59and thousands
2084. 47:00of shareholders.
2085. 47:01These are the people
2086. 47:02that have
2087. 47:02a direct vested interest,
2088. 47:03and it's a very
2089. 47:04small number of people,
2090. 47:05and you work directly
2091. 47:06for them.
2092. 47:06That sounds like
2093. 47:07a lot of pressure to me.
2094. 47:08Yeah. Absolutely.
2095. 47:09Perfect. Fantastic.
2096. 47:11That's it
2097. 47:11for today's episode.
2098. 47:13If our conversation with an
2099. 47:14got you
2100. 47:15thinking about a playbook,
2101. 47:16you've been holding on
2102. 47:17to a little too long,
2103. 47:18and whether the next chapter
2104. 47:19requires putting it down,
2105. 47:21take a moment
2106. 47:22to leave us
2107. 47:22a rating in a review.
2108. 47:23It helps more people
2109. 47:24find these conversations.
2110. 47:26Follow unboxing.
2111. 47:27On the iHeart app
2112. 47:28or wherever
2113. 47:29you get your podcasts.
2114. 47:31And if you're not
2115. 47:31already subscribed,
2116. 47:33this is a good time to start.
2117. 47:34We have more conversations
2118. 47:36like this one
2119. 47:37coming up this season,
2120. 47:38and you won't want to miss.
2121. 47:41The world is asking all of us
2122. 47:42to unlearn something.
2123. 47:43The question is
2124. 47:44whether we're brave enough
2125. 47:45to actually do it.
2126. 47:46I'm Drew Ione.
2127. 47:47And I'm Richard. Tobacco.
2128. 47:49And this was unboxing.
2129. 47:50See you next time.
2130. 47:52Unboxing is a bubble of media
2131. 47:54iHeart podcast production.
2132. 47:56If you're not in
2133. 47:57the conversation,
2134. 47:58you're not in the game.
2135. 48:07Having insurance isn't the
2136. 48:08same as having State Farm.
2137. 48:10It's like wanting
2138. 48:11to get advice on the
2139. 48:13in leadership,
2140. 48:13but instead
2141. 48:14getting generic retirement
2142. 48:16tips while on a cruise ship.
2143. 48:17It's certainly a different
2144. 48:19take on people
2145. 48:19who want to go places.
2146. 48:21You wouldn't settle
2147. 48:22for just any
2148. 48:23marketing podcast,
2149. 48:24so don't
2150. 48:25settle for any insurance.
2151. 48:26Get the real deal.
2152. 48:28Like a good neighbor.
2153. 48:29State farm is there.