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Animal Farm & Life in Communist Romania with Liana Andreasen — Transcript

by Robert Kennedy · 12,935 words · 1,902 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Welcome today today's episode of the
0:02podcast discussions outside of the te
0:05textbook. Today we are joined with
0:07English instructor Lyanna Anderson at
0:10South Texas College who is going to
0:12bring us a deeply personal perspective
0:14to our discussion. Um having grown up in
0:18communist Romania. Uh through that lens
0:21we can take a fresh look at George
0:23Orwell's classic allegory
0:26the animal farm. At its core, the animal
0:30farm serves as a direct analogy to
0:33Soviet Russia and the rise of
0:35totalitarianism
0:37uh mainly under Joseph Stalin. Yet
0:40Orwell himself was a committed
0:42democratic socialist.
0:44He was not attacking the core ideals of
0:46socialism with the text the animal farm
0:49but was deeply uh a gasast at how the
0:52USSR had corrupted those principles that
0:56for him he felt uh he valued very much
0:59into a brutal authoritarian regime.
1:02Reflecting on his political concerns,
1:05Orwell noted, "This was necessary to me
1:08as a part of my approach to socialism.
1:11For before you can be sure whether you
1:14are genuinely in favor of socialism, you
1:16have got to decide whether things at
1:19present are tolerable or not tolerable.
1:22And you have got to take up a definite
1:25attitude on the terrible, terribly
1:28difficult issue of class." unquote. It
1:32must be understood that when Orwell
1:34wrote Animal Farm, it was during World
1:36War II when the USR was an ally of the
1:38United States and Great Britain.
1:41Accordingly, for a brief moment during
1:43this point in history, it was actually
1:45unpopular to speak out against communist
1:48Russia. But Orwell was not one to
1:51succumb to con conventional
1:53expectations.
1:55What is remarkable about Animal Farm is
1:58there are no throwaway lines.
2:02Um, every sentence is a direct reference
2:04to the monstrous um, Stalin regime. Um,
2:08and even prior. So, for example, within
2:12the book, The Battle of the Cowshed
2:14mirrors the Russian Civil War and Alli
2:17intervention where Mr. Jones and other
2:20farmers try to retake Animal Farm, but
2:23are defeated by the animals led by
2:25Snowball Pig. reflecting on how the Red
2:29Army fought off the counterrevolutionary
2:31white army forces and foreign troops.
2:35The ex the expulsion of Snowball uh
2:38represents the exile of Leon Trosky who
2:41was part of the Russian Revolution as
2:44Napoleon uses his trained pack of dogs
2:47to chase Snowball off the farm just as
2:50Joseph Stalin outmaneuvered Trosky in
2:53the struggle for power after Vladimir
2:55Lennon's death.
2:57Bu building the windmill symbolizes
2:59Stalin's five-year plan where the
3:02animals exhaust themselves building and
3:04rebuilding the structure to modernize
3:07the farm which parallels the forced
3:10brutal in industrialization of the
3:13Soviet Union at a massive human cost.
3:16The purges and confessions correspond to
3:19the great purge and Moscow trials seen
3:23when Napoleon um had his hens and other
3:27animals slaughtered after forcing them
3:29to confess to uh treasonable
3:32collaborations.
3:34Trading with Mr. The whimper reflects
3:36Soviet trade with the west and the card
3:38game meeting with the farmers represents
3:41the thyron and yalta conferences where
3:43Napoleon and the pigs sit down to drink
3:47and play cards with neighboring human
3:49farmers culminating in a fight when both
3:52cheat.
3:53Um so today we are honored to welcome
3:56Miss Anderson um as she illuminates
3:59George Orwell's work through the vivid
4:02perspective of her upbringing under an
4:04authoritarian government driven by
4:07intimidation and brutality under
4:09communist Romania.
4:11Um, Lyanna, the for for for for Lyanna,
4:15the narrative of the animal farm is not
4:17merely an abstract academic exercise or
4:20a point of casual interest. Her insights
4:24remind us of the fragile nature of
4:26democratic liberties in contemporary
4:29society, urging us
4:32uh not to take our hard one individual
4:35freedoms for granted. With that, I yield
4:38the floor to our guest and I'm eager to
4:41learn aside with um all the students
4:43that are in the audience today as well.
4:45So, welcome to the program and please
4:48share your experience of life under the
4:52tyranny of pigs and their dogs. Thank
4:55you.
4:57>> Thank you so much for the introduction.
4:59Um I do have a PowerPoint presentation.
5:02I just want to say just a couple things
5:05about myself. Um I came to the United
5:07States in 1995
5:10which was after the fall of communism.
5:12It had the regime had changed um in ' 89
5:17in 1989 December. So we were kind of
5:20fresh out of communism and a lot of
5:23people my age was try were trying to to
5:25go and get educated in other countries
5:28just to to change perspective because we
5:30had been just too oppressed by the one
5:34perspective that we grew up with. So
5:37yes, I came here for mostly for graduate
5:40studies, but then I just remained
5:42because I that's where life took me. But
5:45I still go to Romania every summer and I
5:48keep in touch with friends and family
5:50because it's still
5:52my home too.
5:55So I want to make it clear from the
5:57beginning that it's I will talk about
5:59some harsh realities that I grew up
6:02with. But life was not just that
6:06[clears throat] you know my country was
6:08a lively
6:10a place full of life and full of
6:12friendship and
6:14family and people's aspirations and
6:16dreams. So I don't want you to think
6:18that I'm just showing um these grim
6:20things as the only reality that I grew
6:23up with. So just to make that
6:27specification before I start. So let me
6:29try to see how um I share.
6:35Okay.
6:39And this is my PowerPoint. Are you
6:40seeing this red screen?
6:43>> There it is. We got it.
6:46>> Okay. So,
6:48um, my my PowerPoint shows kind of
6:51parallels the the book obviously Animal
6:53Farm um, and
6:56very close closely parallel uh,
6:59realities from Romania as I grew up and
7:02I grew up in the 70s and 80s um, and
7:05then of course in the 90s I was already
7:07a student and I left in the 90s. So what
7:10the period I'm talking about is mostly
7:12the 70s and the 80s where uh Nikolai
7:15Chesku was the the president. Um Romania
7:19had two communist presidents. This was
7:21the second and he was the the worst of
7:24the two. Um and he came to power before
7:27I was born. He was um made president in
7:301967.
7:33So yes, I will be talking mostly about
7:35my my the period that I am more familiar
7:38with because I was alive. [gasps] But I,
7:41you know, I know from my parents and
7:42from other generations that um things
7:45some things were better, some things
7:47were worse um in their time period
7:50because of course the the onset of
7:53communism came with a lot of persecution
7:56and and basically killing of of
7:59aristocracy and families of that had
8:01land. a lot of people who were just flat
8:05out killed because they opposed the
8:07coming of this new regime. When I grew
8:09up, it was this person Chaosu who had
8:12who was ruling basically
8:17just um based on his own philosophy of
8:20what communism should be. So he he
8:23didn't really like Russia that much. So
8:25he didn't follow um he broke with Russia
8:28a little bit. That's why the West
8:30thought, oh, this this very enlightened
8:32communist president has come to power.
8:35But in fact, it was an illusion that he
8:37was so open-minded. He he actually just
8:40had his own agenda. And it was heavily
8:43emphasizing cult of personality that he
8:45was just uh basically everything was
8:48about himself. Not well some of it was
8:51of course the ideals of communism but a
8:54lot of a lot of it was the ideals of
8:56Nikolai Joshesco.
8:58So I parallel on each slide um I put
9:01some quotes from animal farm and then
9:03some uh correspond corresponding
9:06realities from Romania and I have quite
9:08a few pictures from Romania just to to
9:10help you visualize some of what I u am
9:12talking about. But
9:15the first slide doesn't have any
9:17pictures and I'm just kind of setting
9:20this parallel. Um, so on this on the
9:24left side, usually I put quotes from
9:25Animal Farm. It's not always left or
9:28right, but anyway, I'll I'll start with
9:30this one. So yes, Animal Farm is an
9:33allegory. That is understood for most
9:35readers. It is a warning of what could
9:37happen if power goes unchecked and if
9:39regular people stop thinking for
9:42themselves. Um, so that's why it's
9:45universal. I'm just stopping the reading
9:47the slide because of course we still get
9:50a lot out of this book today even though
9:52it is about Russia um and the rise to
9:55power of Stalin but it's it's obviously
9:58an allegory that should concern all of
10:00us because it's a warning for what could
10:02happen anywhere at any time even to us
10:06now. So for people who grew up in in a
10:09totalitarian society, Animal Farm is a
10:11mirror to their lived reality such as
10:13myself, I will draw some close parallels
10:15between this short novel and my own
10:17experience growing up in communist
10:18Romania. And just I'm sure most people
10:22who are here read the book. So very
10:25quickly what it's about. The farm in the
10:27allegorical story is a society organized
10:29by animals mostly by pigs. after a
10:32rebellion uh forces the humans to leave
10:34the farm. From then on, the pigs become
10:36more and more powerful and take more and
10:38more rights away from the other animals
10:40while starving them and forcing them to
10:42work extremely hard. The book does not
10:44end with a new revolution, but ends
10:46rather grimly with the pigs becoming
10:48more humanlike and making deals with
10:50humans. Um, in Russia and Eastern
10:53Europe, including Romania, starting
10:55between the two great wars and
10:57continuing after World War II, a
10:59communist government took over,
11:00eventually isolating these countries
11:02from the rest of the world, except for
11:04their connections with other communist
11:06countries. People became more and more
11:09deprived of daily essentials while their
11:11governments became more and more
11:13oppressive. Russia ended their
11:14totalitarian regime with when Mikail
11:17Gorbachev became president. Though he
11:19was still a communist, he maintained a
11:21milder form of communism. While
11:24Romania's dictatorship led by Nikolai
11:26Jashesco lasted the longest and it ended
11:29in December 1989 with a revolution where
11:32a few thousand people died and most of
11:34them were young people.
11:36So this is kind of how I set up my my um
11:40slides that there's this parallel
11:42between the book and and Romania. But I
11:45welcome anybody who um especially Sean,
11:48you can interrupt me and ask me
11:50questions um related to each slide just
11:53so that I don't just go on and on. Um
11:55I'm sure you'll have some questions. So
11:58I'll just move on to the actual
12:01beginning of my presentation. That was
12:03just a little introduction. So one of
12:07the first steps that the regime that
12:10first the pigs first steps step that
12:13they take after they kick the the people
12:15out is to make the farm um to to have it
12:22belong to everybody. So they declared
12:24the farm to belong to animals and they
12:27just all very happy. Their first year of
12:29production is um is very successful
12:32because they're all very enthusiastic.
12:34So that that enthusiasm after the the
12:37fall of the human regime parallels what
12:39happened in Russia, what happened in
12:41Romania. So I'm giving a quote here. The
12:43animals rushed to the top of it and
12:46gazed around them in the clear in the
12:48clear morning light. Yes, it was their
12:50theirs. Everything that could they could
12:52see was theirs. In the ecstasy of that
12:55thought, they gambled around and round
12:58and hurled themselves into the air in
13:00great leaps of excitement. They rolled
13:02in the dew. They cropped mouthful of
13:05mouthfuls of sweet summerrass. They
13:07kicked up clouds of the black earth and
13:09snuffed its rich scent. So it's this
13:12idealism of everything is going to be
13:15okay now because we now it everything
13:17belongs to us. We can all partake in in
13:22this um
13:24in the resources of this farm. So yeah,
13:27that's how things were in in all the
13:30communist countries including in
13:32Romania. in Romania this um
13:34collectivization giving the land to
13:37everybody how did it happen between 18
13:40between sorry 1949 and 1962 Romania
13:43adopted a Russian model of
13:46collectivization of agriculture and in
13:49theory the land that was taken from land
13:51owners and some had big properties some
13:53had just small
13:55properties
13:57they in theory turned into cooperatives
13:59that were supposed to belong to all
14:01peasants
14:02And in practice of course they didn't uh
14:05the socialist communist party um owning
14:09the land
14:11sorry they believed that owning the land
14:13owning land of any size encouraged
14:15capitalist greed. So they were
14:16completely against cap capitalism and
14:19they thought that owning even a little
14:20piece led to people wanting more. So
14:24that in fact all land became stateowned
14:29and that meant that peasants actually
14:30worked on it but they didn't keep the
14:32crops for themselves. They were just
14:34given a fraction of what they produced
14:36and they were given less and less until
14:38they saw very little of what was
14:40actually produced on the land. Tens of
14:43thousands who opposed this uh
14:45collectivization were killed. Um, and
14:48there were mass deportations that took
14:50place over two decades until
14:52collectivization was completed. You may
14:54wonder where where were they deported?
14:56They were deported to places in Romania.
14:58They were less friendly to human
15:01habitation. So they created they had to
15:03create communities in the middle of
15:06kind of very hostile terrain and um with
15:10a lot of drought, not a lot of
15:11resources, but they had to create new
15:13communities there because they were just
15:15dropped in the middle of nowhere and
15:17told this is where you live now. So they
15:19had to build there. Um, but a lot of
15:22them, thousands of them, I read figures
15:25between four 40,000 and 80,000 people,
15:30just peasants were killed for not
15:31wanting to give their land away.
15:35So that was one step that stateowned,
15:38everything became stateowned. But in
15:40theory, it was people's the people's
15:42land, but the people meant the state. So
15:45that's that was always the case.
15:47whatever was supposed to belong to the
15:48people in fact was controlled by the
15:51state.
15:54Then another step was indoctrination
15:56which in animal farm we see uh
15:59especially with the the puppies
16:01[clears throat]
16:02when the the puppies are turned into
16:04these uh kind of guardians or or law
16:07enforcers. So I have this quote here. It
16:09happened that Jesse and Blue Bell had
16:11both welped soon after the the hay
16:13harvest, giving birth between them to
16:16nine sturdy puppies. As soon as they
16:18were weaned, Napoleon took them away
16:20from their mothers, saying that he would
16:22make himself responsible for their
16:23education. He took them up into a loft
16:26which could only be reached by a ladder
16:28from the harness room and they kept they
16:31kept there kept them in such exclusion
16:34uh seclusion that the rest of the farm
16:36soon forgot their existence. So it's
16:38this idea that the young people are the
16:40ones who are easier to brainwash or to
16:44kind of educate in the new system and
16:48make them tools in that system. Um and
16:51this happened even you may remember that
16:55Hitler did the same thing with Hitler
16:57youth. He was training Germans to become
17:01uh committed members of of the Nazi
17:03party. And I put here some pictures of
17:07this is pretty much what my youth looked
17:09like uniforms and uh very controlled
17:13environments.
17:14Um so I the explanation I give in the on
17:17the right side in Romania there was a
17:20tremendous effort to indoctrinate the
17:21population primarily through controlling
17:23the school system. History was modified
17:26to make communists into heroes.
17:28Knowledge was taught strictly in service
17:30of the reg regime and anything that
17:32challenged or contradicted the official
17:34narrative was made illegal or hidden
17:36while perpetrators were punished
17:38mercilessly.
17:40Students were wore uniforms were trained
17:42from kindergarten to become useful
17:44citizens. Um political lessons were
17:48included in the curriculum. Students
17:50were watched closely. They were
17:52identifying numbers on their clothes. Uh
17:55we were punished if we forgot to wear
17:56them. And we were also asked to work
17:59sometimes in agriculture a few weeks a
18:01year. So we'd go pick potatoes, pick uh
18:04the the picture here in the middle,
18:07lower middle of the page shows basically
18:11teenagers picking uh potatoes and there
18:15were other crops that we were asked to
18:16to pick. Sometimes we just go and um
18:21even when there were no crops, we were
18:23asked to to kind of pull weeds or do
18:26other tasks for like a 10day
18:29um trip. So, some of us thought it was
18:33fun, but in fact, you know, they were
18:35abusing these. It was child labor. Um it
18:39was not paid and it was just mandatory
18:41and we would be punished if we didn't
18:43go.
18:45And um that's just one aspect that today
18:49of course uh society gave up that aspect
18:51of education. But in the upper middle
18:55you see here the the so-called pioneers
18:58this is where you could rise in the
18:59ranks ranks of um this kind of early
19:04indoctrination into the party. So the
19:06more committed you were to the party and
19:07to um and you know spreading that
19:12information to other students that you
19:13were trying to actually help control
19:16other students the more you'd rise in
19:18the ranks and you'd achieve all kinds of
19:21u medals and
19:23um and leadership roles which I never
19:27did because I wasn't that enthusiastic
19:31to become one of um the leaders and this
19:34is what a classroom would look like in
19:36the lower left side. This is kind of a
19:38middle um maybe element. No, it's
19:41probably middle school. Um and this is
19:45what we looked like in middle school,
19:47the uniforms. And you may think that
19:49uniforms help people overcome maybe
19:53class differences that some some kids
19:55who may who are richer and some kids who
19:57are poorer, you don't tell the
19:58difference because they wear uniforms. I
20:00know the argument is made here for
20:02uniforms, but it never works that way
20:04because of course the people who have
20:06more means buy by buy their children
20:09better quality uniforms. So you can
20:11immediately tell the difference between
20:13the the means that the parents have by
20:16the quality of the material and the how
20:20how long a kid wears a uniform until it
20:23it has to be replaced and things like
20:24that. So you can always tell the
20:26difference anyway, even with uniforms.
20:29And this was what we looked like in high
20:31school. This is the lower um lower
20:37right of the screen. Sorry, I'm trying
20:38to think left and right. But yeah, this
20:42is what teenagers in Romania would look
20:44like. And again, I mean, you may think
20:46that it's an equalizer, but but it it's
20:49not really because
20:51people find other ways to differentiate
20:54between rich and poor kids. And
20:58it always somehow um you're able to tell
21:04the less
21:04>> humans are going to human no matter
21:06what.
21:07>> So I mean for example even in in um
21:10Islamic countries where where girls may
21:13wear veils in their not necessarily in
21:16school but like where women wear um
21:19headscarves and things like that. I I
21:21was told that they they are even more
21:24concerned about makeup and what they
21:26look like. Just the the little that they
21:27show is something that they use for
21:30forming their own identity and asserting
21:32their own or expressing their own
21:33identity. So it's you can still be who
21:36you are even under a uniform of course.
21:39Um and I I apologize for not realize
21:42that not realizing I didn't really
21:44explain the pictures in the previous
21:46slide. Just quickly
21:49what I wanted to show with these
21:51pictures, this is the characterization
21:53that happened before I was born. But on
21:56the upper left side, you see the
21:58idealized version of peasants working
22:02happily for the state. So they they
22:04don't own that land anymore, but they
22:06happily uh fill their quotas because
22:09that's what the sign says. It's uh we'll
22:11happily meet our quota. Um and and it's
22:15just basically
22:17that um
22:19that fake
22:21or that idealism that at the beginning
22:23many people believed in but it turned
22:25out to be more and more of a false
22:27reality that was just shown to the world
22:30but it never reflected what was really
22:32happening. So here on the right side you
22:35see peasants signing away their land and
22:38um entering these cooperatives
22:41which at the beginning some some of them
22:43believed that they were a real
22:46participation in in ownership but it was
22:48just a way to make them work.
22:51And then here the crops going away from
22:54people. So it's loading them up and
22:56sending them um to wherever they were
23:00collected. And that's just the beginning
23:03of people giving away their the products
23:05of their own hard work.
23:09So those are older images. These are
23:11closer to the the ones on the second
23:13slide are my experience growing up. By
23:17the way, I'm not in these pictures.
23:19[laughter] I didn't put pictures of
23:20myself. No. Um okay. The the third one
23:23is propaganda. So that is a a big aspect
23:28in animal farm. It's something that uh
23:31if you if you discussed the novel, you
23:33probably uh this was one element that
23:35that stands out in in analyzing it. Um
23:39how the animals are made to believe that
23:43they're working for themselves, that
23:44they are doing everything for their own
23:46good and not for the pigs. Of course,
23:49when they have less and less and they
23:50see the pigs having more and more, they
23:53still because they were kind of
23:55brainwashed and especially the sheep,
23:57right? They keep repeating that um two
24:00legs bad, four legs good because that's
24:03what they were taught. That's the
24:04propaganda they received. So I have a
24:06quote here from Animal Farm. Comrades
24:09squealer cried, "You do not imagine. I
24:12hope that we pigs are doing this in this
24:15spirit of selfishness and privilege."
24:18Many of us actually dislike milk and
24:20apples. That's because they were eating
24:22the milk and the apples, right? What the
24:24milk is the first thing that disappeared
24:26and they were the ones eating it. I
24:28dislike them myself. Our sole object is
24:31in taking these things is to preserve
24:32our health. Milk and apples. This has
24:35been proved by science science comrades
24:37contains substances absolutely necessary
24:39for the well to the well-being of a pig.
24:42We pigs are brain workers. The whole
24:44management and organization of this farm
24:46depends on us depend on us. Day and
24:48night we're watching over your welfare.
24:51It is for your sake that we drink that
24:53milk and eat those apples. Do you know
24:55what would happen if pigs failed in our
24:57duty? Jones would come back. Yes, Jones
25:00would come back. Surely, comrades, cried
25:01squealer, almost pleadingly, skipping
25:04from side to side and whisking his tail.
25:05Surely there is no one among you who
25:07wants to see Jones come back. So it's
25:10this kind of of course it's a lie that
25:14they tell is that everything any
25:16oppression that is taking place is for
25:18their own good because they are too um
25:23dumb basically to to know what is good
25:26for them. So that that's the lie that
25:28anybody in power will tell the people
25:30without power I know better than you for
25:34some reason or another. I have access to
25:37the to the knowledge to the secret
25:39knowledge that makes you
25:42you need to be led by me. That's the the
25:44lie that was told to slaves right during
25:46slavery in in the United States that
25:49it's for their own good. They can't
25:50govern themselves. They can't make
25:52decisions for themselves. Um
25:56just the the little paragraph at the
25:58bottom, Clover warned him sometimes to
26:00be careful not to overstrain himself,
26:02but boxer. So this is what um it's it's
26:05about Boxer. Boxer would never listen to
26:07her. His two slogans, I will work harder
26:09and Napoleon is always right seemed to
26:11him a sufficient answer to all problems.
26:13So Boxer sadly is the one obviously he
26:17has this big heart and this big powerful
26:20animal that they could actually use to
26:23rebel against the pigs, but they never
26:25do because Boxer is one of the the
26:27animals that was most brainwashed by by
26:30this um new regime. And even though he's
26:34working himself to death basically and
26:36that's what happens to him. He dies. Um
26:39he believes it's for everybody's good
26:42and he when something goes wrong he
26:44blames himself for it. So that's how
26:46much he internalized this propaganda
26:50that he thinks that something that he
26:53didn't work hard enough basically. Um so
26:56the parallelism into uh what I grew up
26:59with is that there was obviously
27:02everything was propagandized. So we what
27:05you see in the picture in the bottom
27:07right of the screen is one of the
27:10parades endless parades that was they
27:12were put on for the party for the the
27:15president sometimes would be present at
27:17those parades sometimes not but they
27:19were going all on all over the country
27:22for specific occasions. the celebrations
27:25of celebration of the victory of the
27:27communism, the celebration of the
27:30birthday of the president, anything
27:32would be an opportunity to bring
27:34everybody, drag everybody into to these
27:37parades, force them to carry these signs
27:40and sometimes children would have to to
27:43play um to perform dances and things
27:47like that. And so it was all a big show
27:51that showed our um devotion to the party
27:54and to the president. But none of us
27:57really believed in anything that we were
27:59doing. So the difference between what
28:02was happening in the book is that for
28:04us, especially my generation, not the
28:06first generations who may have been more
28:08idealistic, we did not believe anything
28:11that we were told on TV, in the school,
28:14on the radio. So just a little paragraph
28:17I have here. Everyone was forced to
28:18participate in celebrations of the party
28:21as the leaders believe participation in
28:23propaganda is the best way to
28:24internalize the propaganda. However,
28:27most of us hated such events. Did not
28:29believe any of the lies we were told on
28:30TV on the only channel that was
28:33available to us or on the radio. There
28:35little of our entertainment came from
28:37the west. So that's part of the
28:39propaganda was to cut us off from the
28:41world. But we did have a show like
28:44Dallas. They allowed it because I guess
28:47it it showed the the greed of
28:49capitalists because it had a very greedy
28:52character Jr. Ewing. Um anyway, um don't
28:56know if the young generation knows much
28:58about Dallas, but that was something
28:59that somehow penetrated the Iron
29:01Curtain. Uh but there was also a trickle
29:04of music from outside and we knew about
29:05Michael Jackson and Madonna in the 80s,
29:08but a lot of our music was recorded
29:10illegally. So that's how we had access
29:12like mostly word of mouth. Hey, you got
29:15to listen to this artist go and record
29:17it illegally in an underground recording
29:20place. Everyone around us there were
29:24everyone everywhere around us there were
29:26images of of the president slogans about
29:30and the party socialism communism and
29:32how much prosperity were we were
29:34enjoying while the people had less and
29:36less. So we were told you are great,
29:38you're doing great, everything is
29:40amazing, but our lives were less and
29:42less amazing. And this uh picture of
29:46Nikolai Joshesku was in every classroom,
29:49in every textbook. Um so it it was just
29:53exhaustingly put all all around us. So
29:56instead of loving him more and more, we
29:58hated him more and more. That that was
30:00the effect of the propaganda on us.
30:03Hey Lyanna, I just wanted what came to
30:05mind about um the
30:09subtle influences of the West creeping
30:11into Romania. I recall an interview of
30:13the Beasty Boys.
30:15>> Uh it was somebody uh who grew up in
30:18communist Russia and he he uh when he
30:22heard You Have a Right to Fight to
30:24Party, that song by the Beasty Boys,
30:27>> that inspired him to get out of Russia.
30:28And so he was like he he's approaching
30:31what's funny is he approached them and
30:33said tell me what is the meaning of that
30:35song because it meant so much to me and
30:37they were like uh we [laughter] were
30:40just kids and we were laughing our butts
30:42off when we wrote that song. It meant
30:44nothing but to party. [laughter]
30:47[gasps]
30:48>> I mean we took any sign of of life and
30:51we magnified it. That's I mean it's true
30:55that you'd see just a little sign from
30:57outside and and magnify it in your mind.
31:00That's why these artists were so popular
31:02to us. And you know the underground
31:05music scene was bigger than the actual
31:09patriotic and party inspired songs that
31:12we were kind of spoonfed.
31:15But we most of us rejected it anyway.
31:20So yes, I mean we did have some access
31:22to the outside world, but it was more
31:24like a trickle and but it was the
31:28because it was even forbidden some of
31:31that music we weren't allowed to listen
31:33not necessarily Michael Jackson or
31:35Madonna but things that were maybe some
31:37things that mention religion or
31:40spirituality or revolution anything that
31:42could incite us that was forbidden
31:44including literature just like with
31:46music literature there was subversive
31:49such as Animal Farm was heavily banned
31:53and you were if you were caught with a
31:55book like that, you'd be in prison
31:57immediately.
31:59So that's why they were mo more
32:00appealing to us. We were trying to get
32:03our hands on things like that. Sometimes
32:05we were just Animal Farm. I did not read
32:08it until after the fall of communism,
32:09but I knew about it for years and we
32:12were just thirsty for it. We we wanted
32:15to get our hands on things like that.
32:18So of course the west was to us kind of
32:22a big um
32:25a big dream and that's one one reason
32:27why a lot a lot of us left after
32:29communism fell and I came for example to
32:31America because I became enchanted with
32:35cultures that were
32:37considered for us um untouchable like we
32:40were not allowed to think about them we
32:42were not um supposed to dream about them
32:46but that's exactly what we did. So um I
32:48came to the states particularly because
32:52that was the the forbidden dream. The
32:54American dream was the forbidden dream
32:56for for me growing up.
33:01Okay. The the next uh slide is about the
33:05food um the issue of the lack of food
33:09and and starving the population which in
33:12animal farm we see how gradually they
33:15have less and less. Um so this is just
33:18from animal farm on this slide and the
33:20next slide will be about Romania.
33:22Um on Sunday morning, Squealer holding
33:24down a long strip of paper with his
33:26troder would read out to them lists of
33:28figures proving that the production of
33:30every class of food stuff had increased
33:32by 200% 300% or 500% as the case may be
33:37might be. The animals saw no reason to
33:39disbelieve him, especially as they could
33:42no longer remember very clearly what
33:44conditions had been like before the
33:46rebellion. All the same, there were days
33:48when they felt they would sooner have
33:50less figures and more food. So this is
33:54another strategy that is very common
33:55among dictators and dictatorships to to
33:59distort uh what's going on to give fake
34:02um information, fake numbers to tell
34:06everybody you're doing great when they
34:08can see that they're actually doing
34:11worse and worse. But they tell them no,
34:13this is the the glory days of our
34:16country. These are the glory days. These
34:17are the best. Um, this is in Romania
34:20they call it the the golden epoch, the
34:25golden era of Chaosco's rule. So, and we
34:30didn't feel like that anything was
34:31golden. But, um, that's those are where
34:34the lies and constantly were we were
34:36bombarded with numbers and figures that
34:38represented how great we were doing.
34:41Um, to go next. Two days later, the
34:43animals were called together for a
34:44special meeting in the barn. They were
34:46struck dumb with surprise when Napoleon
34:48announced that he had sold a pile of
34:50timber to Frederick. So what happens in
34:54the book is that a lot of what they
34:55produce and that's why they they start
34:58having less and less for themselves and
34:59start starving is that it turns out the
35:02pigs are starting to sell uh what they
35:05produce and to make deals with humans.
35:07And this what is what happened in
35:09Eastern Europe and in Russia too. A lot
35:11of what we produce was sold outside of
35:14the country. Um, and I will explain a
35:16little later the reason. Um, so the
35:20animals sniffed the air hungrily and
35:21wonder whether the warm mash was being
35:24prepared for their supper. But no warm
35:26mash appeared. And on the following
35:27Sunday, it was announced that from now
35:29onwards, all barley would be reserved
35:31for the pigs. But if it if there were
35:34hardships to be born, they were partly
35:36offset by the fact that life nowadays
35:38had a greater dignity than it had had
35:40before. There were more songs, more
35:42speeches, more processions. So this kind
35:45of
35:47um glitz and glamour that they project
35:50um this type of society projects is
35:53meant to hide the dirt underneath,
35:56right? And and the starvation of the of
35:59regular
36:01people or animals in the case of the
36:03book, right? But on the outside it seems
36:06like everything is um made of gold when
36:10in fact it's just gilded meaning it's
36:13just fake gold. So those lies we were we
36:18grew up with them. They were everywhere.
36:21And I give some examples here about
36:23Romania. And the pictures represent the
36:25fight to get food. And you'll see some
36:29um in in the left upper left the picture
36:32shows a pretty empty store, people still
36:35trying to find something. And sometimes
36:38the stores were empty. In the lower
36:40pictures, people came to get eggs and
36:42they were over by the time some people
36:45reached the the line, the front of the
36:48line. The lines for food were maybe one
36:51of the most notorious aspects of life in
36:54communism. And sometimes they would go
36:57around the block. Sometimes people would
36:59fight. And many times not everybody in
37:02the line got to get what was being sold.
37:06And it was so said that when you saw a
37:09line, you had to immediately get into
37:10it, get in the line, and then ask what
37:12it was for. So that's what people would
37:14do like, okay, they would just first
37:16find the place in the line and then ask,
37:18okay, what are we waiting for here? And
37:21many times would be meat or eggs or
37:24products that you take for granted,
37:25right? In a regular society, but there
37:28you have to kind of fight for it. And
37:30people who had elderly who lived in
37:32their house, like you if you had your
37:34grandparents living with you, you were
37:37considered lucky because the people who
37:39were retired had the time to wake up at
37:414 in the morning and go and start
37:43standing in line. Um, so sometimes
37:47people with elderly um, family members
37:52just would afford to be in in on in line
37:55for most of the day because it took
37:57hours for even the product to arrive and
37:59then they would just and those people
38:02were very cutthroat. Like if you try to
38:04cut in line, no, this person was first,
38:06that person was second. They knew by
38:08name who's first in line and who's like
38:10the first 20 people.
38:13and they probably knew each other
38:14because they did that all the time. So,
38:17um the two great wars in Romania, the
38:19two great wars and the onset of
38:21communist dictatorship brought
38:22unimaginable poverty, famine and
38:24disease. So, that's in the generation
38:26before I was born. Though a lot of that
38:28was due to the wars themselves, my
38:31generation born in the 70s experienced a
38:34more stable society than the chaos, you
38:37know, after World War II and during the
38:39wars. But much my the society I grew up
38:42with was much stricter and dominated by
38:45fear. We were all well aware that
38:48opposing the system would lead to very
38:50real repercussion repercussions. The 25
38:52years of Chashes school's rule became
38:54darker and darker until during the 1980s
38:58stores became empty of any real
38:59nourishment while flour, sugar, oil, and
39:02meat were rationed. Even with with
39:05rations, sometimes families had to go
39:06without those necessary foods because
39:08these items weren't available all the
39:10time. The best foods were sold under the
39:12table. That's how people made
39:14connections um or they connected to
39:17party people while regular people stood
39:20in line for hours and hours. Sometimes
39:21the goods being sold out before everyone
39:23got to buy some.
39:25So it's just one of the realities that
39:27we took for granted. It was our normal
39:30life or that that was our normaly. Uh
39:34everything had to be fought for and you
39:35had to find
39:37um the right time in the right place
39:39where you could get something
39:40[clears throat] that you needed
39:44and that's kind of the grim some of the
39:48grim aspects and again please remember
39:50what I said this was not all there was
39:53this kind of communist buildings and
39:56these dilapidated means of
39:59transportation the the hardworking
40:01factories
40:03that's not old that our lives were.
40:06But um anyway, let me read the decade
40:09before the end. And this is where I
40:12don't talk much about the book because
40:14as I said, the book um doesn't quite end
40:17in the way that
40:19real life um the direction it's not
40:22exact parallel to real life, but anyway,
40:25the I'm talking about the last decades
40:27in the 80s. Um that's when the country
40:30became a star place with people living
40:32without hot water and poor and with poor
40:35heating. Children went to school on foot
40:37or in undercrowd overcrowded trams and
40:40buses sometimes in minus 33 degrees
40:43weather. That's the lowest temperature I
40:46remember walking to school in and
40:49getting to school with icicles on my
40:51face. So they would walk or take trams
40:54and buses to school to study in unheated
40:57school. So, we kept our coats on and
40:59gloves and had to just kind of shiver at
41:01our at our desks. Parents were
41:04overworked. Uh, factory work with night
41:06shifts being a common way for both men
41:08and women to make a living. And at the
41:10same time, the leaders touted record
41:12crops, record economic progress, all
41:14numbers being inflated to make
41:16everything seem perfect. And pretty much
41:19you saw that in in Animal Farm, right?
41:21The the lies about the numbers. In
41:24truth, much of Romania's production was
41:26exported as Charesco was hoping to reach
41:28zero national debt at the expense of the
41:30population.
41:31Bribery and corruption became the law of
41:33the land. Contraband from outside the
41:36country was people's favorite way to be
41:37bribed. And then that's why I put this
41:40picture of Kent cigarettes and coffee.
41:43These were really rare items. And um
41:48that was a way to to earn favors with
41:51with people of means and power.
41:55But there were also live bribes such as
41:57chickens, lambs, and pigs. People though
42:01resisted and secretly complained to each
42:03other, telling jokes about the regime,
42:06reading forbidden books, listening to
42:07voice of America and free free Europe on
42:10the radio. Uh so there were ways in
42:13which people managed to remain sane
42:16through all of this. And um the next
42:18slide is one particular way that we kept
42:22our sanity. I put here three jokes.
42:24Maybe I'll I don't know do I have time
42:26to read all three. Let me I'll read the
42:30first. See how quickly it goes out.
42:32Chowoesco and his wife are in a
42:33helicopter. He points at something and
42:35says, "Look, those are rivers." She says
42:38to him, "No, dear. Those are roads and
42:42the pilot intervenes. No, those those
42:44are food lines seen from the helicopter.
42:48Those are were ways in which we're
42:50entertaining each other for just to make
42:52fun of our situation.
42:55A little kid knocks on the neighbor's
42:56door. Ma'am, did you make cowbone soup
42:59today? That's when people lacked meat.
43:01They would put a bone, a big cowbone in
43:04the soup to make it tasty. Yes, dear. Do
43:07you want a little soup? The woman says,
43:10"No, my mom asks, "Can we borrow the
43:12bones for our soup?"
43:16Okay. And the third joke, at the dawn of
43:19communism, a simple peasant man
43:20traveling by train has a conversation
43:22with a party member who looks very smart
43:24and smug. The peasant asks, "Can you
43:27tell me what this communism is? How how
43:30is it going to work?" "Well," says the
43:32other man, "if you want to get cabbage
43:34right now, you have to wait in line,
43:35right? You have to pay, right?
43:38Yes, says the p peasant. Well, in
43:40communism, everyone will have access to
43:42as much cabbage as they want, and they
43:44won't have to pay for it either. But I
43:46don't like cabbage, says the peasant.
43:49Don't worry, you'll come to like it,
43:50answers the board.
43:53So, these are just some jokes I
43:55remember. Um, there were millions of
43:59jokes that people circulated. That was
44:02kind of a subculture.
44:04Um, and this is of course the Chaos. I
44:07didn't mention his wife, the Chaos,
44:09because the the wife was his wife was um
44:13rumored to be even more cruel than him
44:16that sometimes he would pardon people
44:18who were supposed to be executed, but
44:19she was just, "No, no, kill them all."
44:22So, a little bit. I mean, I guess they
44:26were both equally cruel and evil. And
44:29that's kind of a store with sometimes
44:31all that you could find was a jar of
44:34peas or
44:36maybe cabbage. So that's what the joke
44:39is about. Well, you get to like it when
44:41you have nothing else to eat.
44:45On the other hand, other lifestyles
44:48existed in the country. So I talk here
44:50about different lifestyles. And in
44:52animal farm you can you notice that um
44:56the pigs of course have a really good
44:58life for themselves.
45:00There were lamp oils and candles for the
45:02house when they move especially when
45:03they move into the house. Lamp oils and
45:06lamp oil and candles for the house.
45:08Sugar for Napoleon's own table. He
45:09forbade this even to the other pigs
45:12right on the ground that had made them
45:13fat. A stump of hay and part of the
45:15potato crop was sold off and the
45:17contract for eggs were increased to 600
45:19a week. So that year the hens barely
45:21hatched enough chick chick chick chick
45:23chick chick chick chick chick chick
45:23chick chick chick chick chick chick
45:23chick chick chick chick chick chick
45:23chick chick chick chick chick chick
45:23chick chick chick chick chick chick
45:23chick chick chick chick chick chick
45:23chicks to keep their numbers at the same
45:24level. Rations reduced in December were
45:28reduced again in February and lanters in
45:30the stalls were bit forbidden to save
45:32oil. And this again parallels a lot that
45:34life that I was describing when there
45:37was no heating. There was just um also
45:39you had maybe hot water three times a
45:42week or something like that or
45:45electricity was cut off or some of the
45:47day things like that.
45:49But this the pigs seemed comfortable
45:51enough and in fact were putting on
45:53weight of any if anything. So in Romania
45:55the chaoses had completely different
45:57lifestyle from um the people the country
46:01and of course the people who were close
46:03to him also had all these privileges and
46:07um they were rumored to be their life
46:09was rumored to be luxurious beyond
46:11belief. After their death, pictures of
46:13their palaces came out and today people
46:16can even visit some of them.
46:19And part of this kind of life life of
46:21luxury, which was pretty much
46:24an insult to all of us. He loved to
46:27supposedly hunt. And you see him here at
46:30the bottom with a bunch of dead bears.
46:33He supposedly was hunting, but in fact
46:36the animals were brought to him
46:39um and he would just shoot them from up
46:41close. They were I mean they were
46:43brought in within shooting distance and
46:45they were just heard them to toward him
46:48in a safe way. He would never be in
46:50danger of course. But everything we
46:52heard about him to us seemed obscene. So
46:56here we see you see him and constantly
46:58we saw on TV picture pictures pictures
47:00pictures pictures pictures pictures
47:00pictures pictures or footage of him with
47:03the animals that he killed like rows and
47:05rows of dead animals and of course he
47:07wasn't going in the woods hunting for
47:08them and traveling to find them. They
47:11were just all brought to him
47:13to shoot. And that's one room in some of
47:17his palace, one of his palaces. And on
47:20the the the lower right side you see the
47:24palace of the people which he was
47:26building for himself in fact but he
47:28never got to live in it because it was
47:30finished around the time of his death
47:34[clears throat]
47:35and today it's just used for
47:36governmental purposes. And on top here
47:39you see him at the table the lavish um
47:43parties that they had.
47:46And in the upper left corner, I put a a
47:49little example of a regular
47:52apartment of a regular person just kind
47:55of to show the the difference the the
47:59contrast to what and we didn't see but
48:03only heard about the things
48:06um that were going on at the higher
48:08levels.
48:10[clears throat]
48:13And
48:15another thing that is common between the
48:18book and the life in totalitarian regime
48:22is the the repression machine the the
48:24consequences of rebelling or somehow
48:28being against the system. So we see if
48:31you remember there's an animal farm
48:32scene where a lot of the animals get
48:34killed because of contesting of crimes
48:37of um maybe collaborating with snowball
48:41or things like that. So for example, the
48:44three hands who had been the ring
48:46leaders in the attempted rebellion over
48:48the eggs now came forward and stated
48:49that Snowball had appeared to them in a
48:52dream and incited them to disobey
48:53Napoleon's order. They too were
48:55slaughtered. The first two were get
48:57slaughtered were some pigs actually.
48:59Then a goose came forward and confessed
49:01to having secreted six years of corn
49:04during the last year's harvest and um
49:07and eaten them at in the night. Then a
49:09sheep confessed to having urinated in
49:11the drinking pool. Urged to do this, so
49:12she said, by snowball. [clears throat]
49:14They were all slain on the spot. And so
49:17the tale of confessions and executions
49:19went on until there was a pile of
49:21corpses lying before Napoleon's feet,
49:23and the air was heavy with the spell
49:25smell of blood, which had been unknown
49:28there since the expulsion of Jones. When
49:31it was over, the remaining animals,
49:33except for the pigs and dogs, crept away
49:35in a body. they were shaken and
49:37miserable. So, it's this kind of um
49:41reign of fear
49:44that if you don't manage to win over
49:46people through your propaganda
49:49and your lies, then fear is the next and
49:52the biggest step is to keep people in
49:55check by killing a few of them. um
49:59killing many of them so that people know
50:02not to do anything anymore and be afraid
50:05to to overturn you. So in the in
50:08Romania, the methods of silencing those
50:10who opposed the regime were unforgiving.
50:13Many people spent years in communist
50:15prisons. Many were disappeared and many
50:18killed with their death receiving a
50:20fabricated explanation. Writers
50:23[clears throat] who criticized the
50:24regime, for example, artists, anyone who
50:27was admired in any way for opposing the
50:30system were they were in danger of being
50:32killed. Intellectuals were particularly
50:35targeted since they were harder to
50:36manipulate and more likely to provoke
50:38rebellions. One notorious method of
50:40punishing of punishment was the building
50:43of a canal to the Black Sea. So it's
50:47very notorious. It lasted for maybe a
50:50couple of decades this building of a
50:52miles and miles long canal. I don't know
50:54how many miles, maybe 50 miles or so. Um
50:57it was a way to shorten the for ships
51:00that to shorten the way to the sea from
51:02the Danube River.
51:05And I show here the um the picture of
51:08the Finnish canal and on the left side
51:10working on the canal. And this is a
51:12punishment that was given to a lot of
51:14intellectuals like they were sent to
51:15work there and a lot of them died
51:17because it was terrible type of physical
51:20work and being fed very little. So many
51:24teachers, writers, artists, researchers
51:26went were sent to work and thousands of
51:28them died to build this absurdly
51:30difficult project, the canal.
51:33Even children were not safe. In every
51:36class, there was an informant, sometimes
51:38known, sometimes not known, to the rest
51:41of the children. They would communicate
51:43suspicious activities to party
51:46representatives and the suspects would
51:47be followed, microphones planted in
51:49their homes, and they'd be beaten in
51:51secret police basements. I know
51:53personally at least 10 people who were
51:55persecuted or whose family members were
51:57persecuted and even killed. I had uncles
52:00who spent years in prison and I had a
52:02classmate who was killed by the secret
52:04police. who was my friend and he was
52:07killed in 11th grade.
52:11So we were quite I mean it was it
52:13affected all of us a lot because we were
52:17teenagers and we you know had become
52:20very emotionally attached to each other
52:22by that age.
52:25And here I have some pictures of the
52:27people who were killed by the communist
52:30regime. And the first one in the left,
52:32that's my friend and classmate. And he
52:35was a poet. And he was not killed
52:38because of something he did, even though
52:40he was quite rebellious. But his father,
52:42his father was kind of a he was a poet,
52:45famous poet and and um an agitator who
52:49had spent a few years in communist
52:51prison. And he didn't the father didn't
52:55think he didn't stop being a rebel a
52:58rebel and he wanted to actually they the
53:01whole family wanted to go to America and
53:03from there to kind of um remain in touch
53:06with Romanians and help maybe overturn
53:08the regime or help just uh oppose the
53:11system and because of that they killed
53:15um his son. He was fearless the father.
53:18He he thought that if they came for the
53:21family, he would be the one to be
53:22killed. But he they did not count on the
53:24fact that the child would be killed.
53:2816year-old child. So that was a shock to
53:33everybody. And so of course after that
53:35nobody dared to do anything anymore in
53:37that family or in the circles that knew
53:41this um this [clears throat] young man.
53:43His name was Malin Taku.
53:46And the other two were famous uh
53:50writers. Um Nikolai Labish was a young
53:53poet who had become uncomfortably
53:56anti-communist. So he one day was in a
54:00tram accident that later was proven to
54:04be um
54:08well he was pushed. It was not an
54:10accident. He was basically the official
54:12cause of death was that he was drunk and
54:14fell between the two cars of the tram.
54:18Um kind of like a smaller train. And in
54:21fact he was alive for long enough to say
54:23that somebody pushed him
54:26and he was 21 when he died. And then uh
54:29Marin Pa the other uh person is was a
54:34fiction writer and he his last book was
54:37a book that basically was an indictment
54:42um was harsh criticism of of communism
54:45and the whole system corrupt corrupt
54:48system um of communism. And for that
54:52reason, the day that the launch of his
54:54novel was supposed to take place, he was
54:56found dead in his hotel room. And
54:59officially, it was cuz he was drunk, but
55:01that was not really the reason. Um, so
55:04that's these are just some examples of
55:07people who were just completely wiped
55:10out.
55:11>> Would their works be underground? the
55:13distribution of their poetry, the po
55:15books of poetry or books, would would it
55:18be underground or would it be how would
55:20how would it be available to the typical
55:22Romanian?
55:24>> Well, in the case of the poet, his he
55:26had the the middle one who was a famous
55:28poet, he had some poetry that we were
55:31taught in textbooks. I mean, we were
55:33just told that there was this young man
55:34who was a poet and um he wrote some
55:37poetry about the Great Depression and
55:39things that had nothing to do with
55:40communism per se, but when he started
55:43writing against communism, those poems
55:45were not available to us. And then he
55:47just died in supposedly in an accident,
55:51but we didn't know the rest of the story
55:53and we never got our hands on those
55:55poems until after the fall of communism.
55:58So he was known and the same with the
56:01person on the right side, the Marin Pa.
56:04He was a very famous writer who whose
56:07books we learned in school and we read
56:10and I loved this. This was my favorite
56:12fiction writer actually. and he wrote
56:15about some of the life of people in the
56:19country and the the change of times and
56:21things like that, but they were not
56:23never overtly anti-communist because one
56:25of his main characters was a communist
56:27young idealist man. His last book
56:30though, that book that he died before it
56:33was actually successfully launched, it
56:37became forbidden. You were not allowed
56:39to read it anymore. I mean after he died
56:42that book became an underground really
56:45sought for book so we knew about it but
56:48we couldn't find it and some people
56:50circulated it. It was very very
56:52difficult to find and again I only got
56:55my hands on it after the regime changed
57:00and I could see why they they killed
57:02him.
57:05So yes, we we this became kind of part
57:08of their life was known because it was
57:11not yet overtly anti-communist, but and
57:15most writers knew better than to risk
57:18their I mean they they make made sure
57:21that they didn't get killed knowing that
57:23this thing could happen and probably in
57:26in the circles of uh in the writer
57:28circles it was known that this for
57:30example the young poet they probably
57:32knew that he had been killed and that's
57:34why a lot of people started just
57:35praising the at least they would write a
57:37few poems that praised the party and the
57:39communist regime and Chowoesco and then
57:43wrote other things and a lot of people
57:45embraced allegory and metaphorical types
57:49of text so that you wouldn't know
57:50exactly what they're talking about. So
57:52that's why science fiction became very
57:54popular because you know dystopias and
57:57things like that where you could write
57:59about what's happening without actually
58:01naming it and you could get away with
58:03it. So science fiction writers kind of
58:05took off at the time.
58:07>> Yeah. Typically tyrants authoritarians
58:11uh lack intellectual the intellectual
58:13capacity truly
58:15>> to recognize irony and analogies. So
58:18it's it's a very
58:19>> so it was a safest way because they
58:21couldn't really pin pin them down for
58:24those maybe the people would r be
58:27rumored to to write against the regime
58:29but they they wouldn't be able to prove
58:31it because they they probably didn't
58:33have even the intellectual curiosity as
58:36you said to to even read such books
58:40and
58:42these are some of the communist prisons
58:44that people a lot of people lost their
58:47lives in or spent decades in. Um, and I
58:51have uncles who spent time in prisons
58:54like this.
58:57I don't know for a fact that they looked
58:59quite as dilapidated at the time that
59:01they were actually spending those years
59:03in prison. Maybe this is what remains of
59:05them now. Some pictures are a little
59:08kind of maybe um museum or some of these
59:13places have become museums now. museums
59:15of the horrors of communism. So the
59:18picture may be a little older than the
59:21time when people actually were in prison
59:24there. Just like you know with uh
59:27concentration camps today, you can still
59:30visit them. That's how it is with these
59:32prisons now.
59:35And the end for how it ended for us,
59:39which again is different from the ending
59:40in the book. Um, unlike in Animal Farm
59:45where the story ended with the pigs
59:46turning even more corrupt and
59:47tyrannical, Romania experienced an end
59:50to the dictatorship in December 1989.
59:53The revolution there and that was the
59:55revolution that was televised because it
59:58was a lot of it happened on TV. We were
1:00:00told on TV that they won. Uh so um Sean
1:00:04you had that song the revol revolution
1:00:07will be televised or won't be televised
1:00:09and it reminded me exactly of this that
1:00:12we experienced the revolution glued to
1:00:14our TVs. Um so the revolution was
1:00:19started by young people and about 3,000
1:00:22of them died until the choes were forced
1:00:24to flee and were later caught and
1:00:26executed by the new leaders. Um and that
1:00:29was the last execution that happened in
1:00:31Romania because after that they banned
1:00:33um the banned
1:00:37um death penalty. So it was the last
1:00:42execution. Romania is now in the
1:00:44European Union and has made progress,
1:00:47but of course some of the old
1:00:48corruption, as you may imagine, has not
1:00:50completely gone away. So it's still hard
1:00:52to shake and people are still fighting
1:00:55to change that.
1:00:58the end question mark.
1:01:01>> Yeah. The the the current corruption in
1:01:04Romania reminds me of uh kind of the
1:01:07what I think led to the downfall of uh
1:01:10Andrew Tate or the beginning of it
1:01:12because that fool would openly brag that
1:01:15he moved his his sex trafficking webcam
1:01:18enterprise to Romania because it's so
1:01:20corrupt you can get away with anything
1:01:22there. And I think because he was so
1:01:24loud and pervasive that I imagine the
1:01:26authorities are like, "Dude, we don't
1:01:28mind the stuff happening here, but
1:01:29you're embarrassing us." That's when he
1:01:31started getting into legal trouble.
1:01:34>> And maybe you don't maybe you're not
1:01:36familiar with an older case. Um, Kurt
1:01:39Trepto was an American who lived in in
1:01:41Romania and got Romanian citizenship
1:01:44um around the time that I was in college
1:01:46and he actually was um my professor for
1:01:49a little while teaching translation
1:01:51workshop.
1:01:53We found out that apparently he had a
1:01:56child pornography ring and he was doing
1:01:58horrible things that he was put in
1:02:01prison in Romania for and he stayed in
1:02:03prison for seven six years there and
1:02:05then he moved back to the states changed
1:02:07his name and he's still somewhere here
1:02:09doing stuff. So
1:02:11>> the last I saw him he was in a picture
1:02:13he was associated with a party and he
1:02:15was going to give Christmas gifts to
1:02:17orphans. So I just was horrified to see
1:02:21that he is still trying to get away with
1:02:25things. But
1:02:27yeah, that's just another example
1:02:28because after the fall of communism was
1:02:30considered kind of nowhere land and um
1:02:34and this person that I knew was
1:02:35connected to the president of the Roman
1:02:38of Romania at the time. The president
1:02:40that came after Charles was actually
1:02:43[snorts] he that's a long story but if
1:02:45you want to know it the the revolution
1:02:47was not completely successful because it
1:02:49was hijacked by a person who had been
1:02:51waiting for a mass kind of uprise in
1:02:55order to take um the power and he he did
1:02:59and people still at the beginning
1:03:01thought that he was sincerely he came
1:03:03with the revolution but then realized
1:03:05that he had planned a coup d'etatau and
1:03:07that he just took advantage of people's
1:03:09death to just put himself in the front
1:03:12and luckily he's long gone but for a
1:03:16while it was just is it really has has
1:03:19the situation changed or is he just
1:03:21bringing us back to communism so
1:03:25>> kind of chaotic for a while
1:03:28>> yeah this remind you the accompany uh
1:03:31common reading text is Paulo Fierra's
1:03:33pedagogy of the oppressed as you're
1:03:35aware of
1:03:37>> and I think that's it's such a great fit
1:03:39for the Animal Farm because, you know, a
1:03:42big part of his argument is the
1:03:44psychological and structural lens for
1:03:46understanding the tragic uh cycle of
1:03:50revolution and corruption. And so, Fiero
1:03:53writes, "The oppressed instead of
1:03:56striving for liberation tend themselves
1:03:59to become the oppressors." And his his
1:04:02thinking there is because the oppressed
1:04:05have been oppressed and so they
1:04:07internalize the image of their former
1:04:10masters. Their vision of freedom is
1:04:13often individualistic
1:04:15and they simply want to swap places and
1:04:17become well the new bosses. And so
1:04:20that's
1:04:21>> is that is that aligned with the the
1:04:23communist party the the leaders of the
1:04:25communist party in Romania that they
1:04:27were these oppressed people that rose to
1:04:29power and uh
1:04:31>> well some of them pretended to be part
1:04:32of the oppressed that's one thing that
1:04:34happened that people hid who they used
1:04:36to be and because we didn't have a
1:04:38Nuremberg like um
1:04:42Germany had and with the Nazis who were
1:04:45you know a lot of them were punished and
1:04:47imprisoned or executed We Romanians
1:04:50said, "Let's not be as nasty as that.
1:04:52Let's just let's just bury the hatchet."
1:04:55And and so a lot of communists and
1:04:57people who had power before became
1:05:00capitalist communist hybrid like we see
1:05:02in Russia for example. And some of them
1:05:05made, you know, millions or billions.
1:05:08And uh so they continue to have power
1:05:11but with a different name, with a
1:05:13different system, a different form of
1:05:16corruption, with more money involved.
1:05:18But a lot of them still, you know, are
1:05:22lying about who they are. And that's
1:05:25probably a mistake to to let
1:05:28>> it it lines up with another one of
1:05:31Fierra's observations and arguments. You
1:05:34know, he's big on this concept of
1:05:36critical consciousness. Um, but he says
1:05:39the oppressed often fear freedom because
1:05:42it demands accountability. So they
1:05:45choose um and so it's it's a it's it's
1:05:49never a total break from the old system
1:05:52because accountability does require
1:05:55effort. It requires risk. It requires uh
1:05:59so much
1:05:59>> becoming educated. It takes effort. I
1:06:02mean I think the easiest thing for
1:06:03people is to say well I don't need to be
1:06:06educated because I have easy access
1:06:08either to money or to business or to you
1:06:11know information is online now. you have
1:06:13it's at your fingertips. But it's a
1:06:16mistake to think that that that's real
1:06:18education that that really gives you the
1:06:21the the tools to fight being
1:06:24manipulated. So I mean today I'm just
1:06:26talking about our real life right now is
1:06:29that because in the pedagogy of the
1:06:32oppressed the the the biggest what I the
1:06:35biggest idea I took out of that is that
1:06:37through education people the oppressed
1:06:40can learn how to not allow to be
1:06:43oppressed again allow themselves to be
1:06:45oppressed again by a new power. So the
1:06:48only way to do it is to be aware, right?
1:06:50And to have to educate yourself and and
1:06:53the internet is not the best tool for
1:06:55information or for education right now.
1:06:57It's just an illusion of of information
1:07:00or so that's why the value of you know
1:07:04fighting for your own right for educa to
1:07:07educate yourself is still something
1:07:09current today. this idea
1:07:12>> and part of the uh
1:07:14>> empowering yourself
1:07:16>> critique of educators uh you know is the
1:07:18banking model which uh I think part of
1:07:21his argument is the reason why
1:07:24oppression and corruption is so
1:07:26perennial that just happens generation
1:07:28after generation is it starts in the
1:07:30schools because teachers just open up
1:07:33empty vessels and stuff some facts in
1:07:36there and you know when you're talking
1:07:39about topics of you know it in my line
1:07:42of work, history, literature for you,
1:07:44philosophy for other colleagues,
1:07:47it's it has nothing to do with the
1:07:49facts. Yeah, it's it's it's kind of cool
1:07:51to know that the Constitution was
1:07:53ratified in 1789, but uh that's
1:07:57peripheral to the importance of
1:07:58understanding the class struggle of what
1:08:01was going on back then, the issues of
1:08:03the the slave aristocracy at the time.
1:08:07These are real questions of being able
1:08:09to dive into how people leverage power
1:08:13over other people and then to draw those
1:08:15parallels to what's going on today. And
1:08:19you know that's there there's a real
1:08:20effort especially in K through 12 to
1:08:22suppress all of that. I mean that's a
1:08:24big part of think of the voucher school
1:08:26systems that we're seeing here in Texas.
1:08:28Um we do and the star test right the
1:08:32test. So the teacher basically loses the
1:08:35art of teaching
1:08:38>> and you know the illusion of giving you
1:08:41facts right media you know if you just
1:08:45watch TV or something and you may get
1:08:47the illusion of being informed and
1:08:49that's what usually uh people who have
1:08:52the power that's indoctrination and and
1:08:56propaganda is false education that's
1:08:59pretty much how they try to give the
1:09:01illusion of people that they have
1:09:02everything that they need to know that
1:09:05they know everything they need to know
1:09:06but as we saw in animal farm right um
1:09:09they will just repeat the slogans not
1:09:11really comprehending what is happening
1:09:14so um just believing in what the power
1:09:18tells you is the the quickest way to to
1:09:21become oppress the oppressed and one
1:09:24thing that powers also do that what
1:09:26happened um of course the communists did
1:09:28that and other systems do the same is to
1:09:32scare the population about the enemy.
1:09:35So, do you want Mr. Jones to come back?
1:09:38Right? That's what the the pigs were
1:09:39saying. So, it's very easy to scare the
1:09:42population. Everything you experience is
1:09:44because of this enemy. And so, you don't
1:09:47want them to be in power, right? So, uh
1:09:49basically it's based on that's
1:09:52propaganda. That's lie. It's
1:09:55>> Yeah. But propaganda relies
1:09:56>> not to not to look for themselves, not
1:09:59to think critically, is to just
1:10:02internalize the lies that are being told
1:10:05and they're easy to absorb because it's
1:10:07easy to to portray things in black and
1:10:09white. Okay. We're animals versus
1:10:11people.
1:10:12>> Yeah.
1:10:13>> Right.
1:10:13>> It's it's a centralized it's a
1:10:15centralization of of the enemy. Right.
1:10:17So pig the Moses the pig the the u Marx
1:10:22Lenin character who first launches the
1:10:24revolution with this speech it you can
1:10:28tell it's doomed from the beginning
1:10:29because it's it is black and white we
1:10:31get rid of the humans and all of our
1:10:33>> everything will be great
1:10:35>> and that's what Hitler did too. I mean,
1:10:37of course, people were suffering the
1:10:40economic downturn out between the two
1:10:42wars, right? And Hitler was like, "Okay,
1:10:44it's because of the Jews." And that's
1:10:47how it was that was manipulation of the
1:10:49public. And it was by the time he took
1:10:52control, it was too late for people who
1:10:54maybe had a conscience and maybe didn't
1:10:56really want that to happen to to Jewish
1:10:58population. But because they already had
1:11:01kind of accepted things to to happen
1:11:04just before their eyes, it was too late
1:11:06to go back and it was already a reign of
1:11:08terror.
1:11:09>> And
1:11:10>> so it just had to play itself out. But
1:11:13that's what people need to watch for,
1:11:15you know, when when you're given an
1:11:17enemy that is easy to hate and then
1:11:22of course you're told that if if we just
1:11:24defeat this enemy and that goes for
1:11:25political parties, too. If they portray
1:11:28too um in an exaggerated way the the
1:11:31opposite side, you have to be cautious
1:11:34buying into that narrative too quickly
1:11:38because it's easy. It's so easy to make
1:11:39people hate. And we see this today with
1:11:41the division between
1:11:44you know people among along party lines
1:11:46is just so easy to make especially with
1:11:49the internet and with bots the you know
1:11:51who are inciting people to hate the
1:11:54other side. So I would say that also
1:11:57education is the value of education is
1:12:00to see multiple perspectives and and to
1:12:02realize that you know nobody is just a
1:12:07cartoonish character that you need to
1:12:09see the humanity in everybody else
1:12:12before you jump.
1:12:13>> Yeah. And
1:12:15I I can't help but think too and this
1:12:18might come across as polyianish
1:12:21um but I think what we're because these
1:12:25are what you gave us is a kind of of a
1:12:29your lived experience is a model of once
1:12:31it is too late. I think right now we're
1:12:33at a point where there are some abuses
1:12:36going on some terrible abuses going on
1:12:38but it has yet to be institutionalized.
1:12:40>> Um
1:12:41>> it's not rooted yet that's but close,
1:12:44right? If if if elections don't go in
1:12:47favor of people who understand what
1:12:51democracy is about, then perhaps we
1:12:53descend in it. And so the clock is
1:12:55ticking. Um, but I can't help but think,
1:12:58um, and maybe this is just a product of
1:13:01of getting older, but uh, true education
1:13:05and liberation really has to come from a
1:13:09source of of real love. love integrated
1:13:12with power. So this not this love of I
1:13:16love you know my my brothers and sisters
1:13:19and ice cream and and puppies and
1:13:22rainbows but the the ability of
1:13:25self-sacrificial love of understanding
1:13:27that we are just mortal human beings on
1:13:30this earth and we all have uh essential
1:13:34needs. Um, and yeah, it it's it's
1:13:38something that is is lacking in a lot of
1:13:40revolutionary movements because
1:13:42obviously the drive is for power. The
1:13:46variable actually doesn't matter whether
1:13:48it's a a fascist revolution, a communist
1:13:50revolution, or a a capitalist regime
1:13:53that has become oppressive. People just
1:13:56seek power and it's it's void of love.
1:13:59And it's it's it becomes entrenched
1:14:01because the oppressed people themselves
1:14:05have a very uh shallow thin
1:14:08understanding of what love is as well.
1:14:11And love is a mighty powerful force. And
1:14:13it is the when you do see social
1:14:15movements uh gain some sort of success
1:14:18whether it's the labor rights movement,
1:14:20women's rights movement, civil rights
1:14:22movement that is all predicated on
1:14:24self-sacrificial love of countless
1:14:27nameless people who risked a lot. Um,
1:14:31and
1:14:32>> who knew that there could be, you know,
1:14:35they could die, they could be even
1:14:38just like snowball like kicked out or
1:14:40exiled or,
1:14:42>> you know, people who know the
1:14:44consequences and they still act.
1:14:47>> Those are it's it's the root of courage
1:14:50really, love. I mean, that's what
1:14:51courage is. It's u it's sort of a
1:14:54recognition of
1:14:55>> I'm going to die anyway, right? sort of
1:14:57sort of Patrick Henry's, you know, give
1:14:59me liberty or give me death, which is a
1:15:01recognition is, oh, I'm going to die
1:15:02anyway. If I'm going to die because of
1:15:04these ridiculous tyrants,
1:15:07um, I might as well die a free person,
1:15:09which you don't need. It's great to have
1:15:12political rights and legal rights, but
1:15:13freedom really is an eternal state
1:15:16rather than some sort of recognition
1:15:18that is on some sort of piece of paper.
1:15:21And one thing to watch for is those who
1:15:25who reject their humanity and other
1:15:27people's humanity because that means
1:15:29that what is at stake for them is
1:15:32something that is not
1:15:34as you said love it it may be something
1:15:36more material or power. So people who
1:15:39who tend to to dismiss others humanity
1:15:43that that's what I would watch for
1:15:46>> and the only way to to see that you're
1:15:48being manipulated by people like that is
1:15:50to to have awareness. I mean that's
1:15:52that's what we our purpose is in college
1:15:56as we teach you know because we have
1:15:58some students in the audience right some
1:16:00people may tell tell you that college is
1:16:03going to brainwash you or something
1:16:04there are people who are afraid of that
1:16:06right that we're that we're we're
1:16:09brainwashing our students but what we we
1:16:11hope to do is to
1:16:14to get people to think for themselves
1:16:17that's that's our biggest purpose my
1:16:19biggest purpose at least I could speak
1:16:21for myself is to to see each other's
1:16:23humanity to accept that there are more
1:16:25than there's more than one perspective
1:16:27and to to realize that we have humanity
1:16:31in common not this is not what divides
1:16:33us that that we still more than anything
1:16:35we're human beings
1:16:39>> yeah absolutely looks like Richard
1:16:41Carnado gave us a good poem to go out on
1:16:43with and yeah I I allocated an hour and
1:16:48uh
1:16:4915 minutes but Um yeah. Um I'm going to
1:16:53copy and paste that poem. Um that looks
1:16:55like a great poem um to take a look at
1:16:58students
1:17:00>> as well. Um
1:17:03>> but Lyanna, thank you very much for
1:17:04sharing your lived experience. It was
1:17:06actually really nice to get to know you
1:17:08a little bit more, you know, to to date
1:17:11a colleague and an English instructor.
1:17:13So, uh, I I kind of probably assumed I
1:17:16always knew you came from Romania, so I
1:17:18assumed you had this past, but it's
1:17:20instructive and deeply meaningful, uh,
1:17:23to know some of the actual details. Um,
1:17:26and I think
1:17:26>> and I don't want to just depress people
1:17:28by talking about some sad things that
1:17:31happened and some of them were really
1:17:32grim, but I do see them as, you know, a
1:17:36warning that this could happen. This
1:17:38could happen anywhere and anytime. as
1:17:41soon as people stop paying attention.
1:17:45So, and some things that sound sound too
1:17:48good to be true are probably too good to
1:17:50be true. If people try to sell you a
1:17:52bill of goods that if you only get rid
1:17:54of this, it will be all great. That's
1:17:57never the truth.
1:17:59>> Yeah. We we tend to say we love freedom,
1:18:01but I don't think we realize what a
1:18:03responsibility freedom is. It's it's it
1:18:07it can be viewed as a burden and it
1:18:09shouldn't be taken for granted up then
1:18:12do we actually deserve it? We deserve it
1:18:15as just human beings. But there there it
1:18:18is sort of you you do need to step up to
1:18:20it and going I can think for myself. I
1:18:22can act for myself and I don't need a
1:18:24daddy to tell me how to live for myself
1:18:27because a lot of us are very
1:18:28susceptible. Uh perhaps because we all
1:18:30have daddy issues looking for that daddy
1:18:33to help us out.
1:18:36It always makes me nervous when when
1:18:38somebody wants to to be the guide and
1:18:40the the you know kind of populist
1:18:44approach. Let me guide you because I
1:18:47know better than you. That's when you
1:18:49know I get very bristly and I'm like
1:18:51>> yeah and that's again we got to get out
1:18:53of here but that's Fierra's argument
1:18:55right? It's it's a teacher needs not to
1:18:58be the teacher he needs to be the
1:19:00co-investigator with his students. So
1:19:02the teacher becomes the student. the
1:19:04students become the teacher and it
1:19:06becomes a feedback loop and that's what
1:19:08our political leaders should be as well.
1:19:10They need to be on the ground with us.
1:19:12>> It should be a dialogue.
1:19:14>> Absolutely. Well, thank you very much
1:19:16and thank you students for for being
1:19:18there as well. Um and uh we'll we'll be
1:19:22talking to you later. We do have another
1:19:24Animal Farm podcast. This will be a
1:19:26readalong um at 11 a.m. So for anybody
1:19:29that is out there, please if you're
1:19:32available, come and join us. And if
1:19:33there's any faculty out there, please uh
1:19:36also if you're available at 11 this
1:19:38Friday, join in. Um your insights would
1:19:41be really valuable to the students out
1:19:43there and the students themselves
1:19:44provide feedback. It's very
1:19:46participatory. And then one shameless
1:19:48plug if anybody is available tomorrow.
1:19:51Tomorrow I'm giving a talk at the common
1:19:53space on 10th Street. It's on 10th and
1:19:55Harvey. Uh it's a little kind of cafe
1:19:57place, but I'll be giving a talk on Dr.
1:19:59King's uh speech on the Vietnam War
1:20:02called uh Breaking the Silence Beyond
1:20:04Vietnam. So, if you're available, I'd
1:20:06love to have you there. Thank you.
1:20:08>> So, take care. Thanks so much.
1:20:10>> And I'll get this video out as as
1:20:13quickly as I'm able to. All right. Take
1:20:16care.
1:20:16>> Bye.

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