An Interview with Colonel James R. Bain, Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00james g bane one of the true pioneers
2. 0:03in the american missile and rocket story
3. 0:06colonel bain was in the office chief
4. 0:08ordinance during the early years of
5. 0:10pioneering years
6. 0:12colonel baine can you tell us when you
7. 0:14were assigned and
8. 0:15how you happened to be assigned to that
9. 0:17group
10. 0:19well i was in late 1944
11. 0:23i was assigned to the developments
12. 0:25division in headquarters army ground
13. 0:27forces
14. 0:28and uh was told by my superiors
15. 0:34that carl trichell who had charge of the
16. 0:37rocket research and development branch
17. 0:40in ordinance
18. 0:41was looking for somebody to come over
19. 0:44and take over the guided missile section
20. 0:48which he was just forming at that time
21. 0:51and i was asked if i would like that
22. 0:52assignment and i said i would and that's
23. 0:55what i got those had to be exciting
24. 0:58years you were on the
25. 1:00frontier of a new technology
26. 1:03that's that's really true
27. 1:06uh none of us really knew exactly what
28. 1:09we were doing nobody in this
29. 1:11world had any experience with
30. 1:15liquid fuel rockets and guided missiles
31. 1:17except
32. 1:18for the germans with their v2
33. 1:23dr goddard in new mexico had done a few
34. 1:25experiments
35. 1:26earlier but these have been largely
36. 1:30neglected by the american armed forces
37. 1:33and
38. 1:35we didn't get too far with it i
39. 1:38understand that you played an
40. 1:39instrumental role in
41. 1:41not the selection of white sands proving
42. 1:43ground but in the selection of the
43. 1:45contolment area the location of the
44. 1:47holman area that you paid it were an
45. 1:49early visitor to that
46. 1:50tularo space yes that's true but
47. 1:54very shortly after being assigned to the
48. 1:57office team ordinance
49. 1:58probably very early 1945
50. 2:03i was uh ordered to go to fort blas
51. 2:06get a hold of the jeep for the driver
52. 2:09and to scour
53. 2:10the jewel race across the basin
54. 2:13uh usually south of uh us highway
55. 2:1670 and to try to find what would be
56. 2:20the best spot for the uh
57. 2:24work area the headquarters area and the
58. 2:26dwelling area
59. 2:27of what became white sands missile
60. 2:29grains
61. 2:30there were a number of criteria and
62. 2:34we tried to as much as we could to
63. 2:36satisfy them
64. 2:38well i know no one that's unhappy with
65. 2:40the selection you made
66. 2:41i understand that you might have
67. 2:44selected one closer to oro grande in the
68. 2:46railhead except the early reports you
69. 2:48had was there was not good water in that
70. 2:50area
71. 2:51that's right they were information that
72. 2:54we had
73. 2:55was that the water over there except in
74. 2:57very
75. 2:58limited quantity as a matter of fact at
76. 3:00that time we were told
77. 3:01that even the village of oregrandy had
78. 3:03to bring in the
79. 3:05potable water in tank cars they didn't
80. 3:08that any
81. 3:09uh that was available in the ground at
82. 3:12that spot
83. 3:13and i understand you knew our first
84. 3:15commander colonel turner very well
85. 3:17very well indeed he and i
86. 3:20uh well i was in washington and he was
87. 3:24at white sands
88. 3:25i visited white sands enough so he
89. 3:27became very good friends
90. 3:30what did you think of this command and
91. 3:32his selection as our first commander
92. 3:35well as i have said once or twice before
93. 3:39uh he was sort of a diamond into a rough
94. 3:42i guess you'd say but he was the kind of
95. 3:44a man
96. 3:45that at that time we really needed for
97. 3:47that kind of a job
98. 3:49which was to establish
99. 3:53an activity which was going to increase
100. 3:56on other military activities at the end
101. 3:58of the war were decreasing
102. 4:02you were a frequent visitor to white
103. 4:04sands during the years you were in the
104. 4:05lcl from 44 to 1950 is that correct
105. 4:08that's right came out did you tell me
106. 4:12you figured one period you've been out
107. 4:1428 times
108. 4:15one period of two years i made 28 trips
109. 4:18to the right science from
110. 4:20washington and now when you left your
111. 4:23assignment in oco
112. 4:24you came here to albuquerque with the
113. 4:27atomic energy
114. 4:28commissioner what was to become an
115. 4:29atomic energy condition well
116. 4:31actually i was still assigned to ocl in
117. 4:34washington
118. 4:35but i was stationed here to act as a
119. 4:37liaison
120. 4:38between contractors
121. 4:42or guided missiles the military
122. 4:44contractors and muslims
123. 4:46and the uh nuclear contractors for the
124. 4:49atomic energy commission
125. 4:51and then after that assignment you
126. 4:53returned to washington for several years
127. 4:55and then came back
128. 4:56to your previous assignment here in
129. 4:58albuquerque and retired in 1958 was it
130. 5:01that's right yeah and you're a graduate
131. 5:04of west point
132. 5:05class of 1928 right well i did remember
133. 5:08some of
134. 5:10those details so what was your
135. 5:13impression in the early days you lived
136. 5:14through the juarez incident of the v2
137. 5:16you mentioned that hold your top toy
138. 5:19dashed in and wanted to know what was
139. 5:21going on
140. 5:24uh yeah things were
141. 5:27fairly confused overnight we had
142. 5:30uh arranged to help bring
143. 5:34v2 some german scientists over
144. 5:37uh but before things really got going
145. 5:39they uh
146. 5:41at the uh nuclear explosion of the
147. 5:43trinity site
148. 5:45and i was at white sands at that time
149. 5:49colonel turner that's through it donald
150. 5:52turner told me the next morning that he
151. 5:54had
152. 5:55heard the explosion and seen the flash
153. 5:57of this guy
154. 5:59and he had no idea what it was but it
155. 6:01must have been pretty thick
156. 6:04that's very interesting and you or
157. 6:06colonel turner didn't know until it was
158. 6:08released to the public
159. 6:09but it really that's right we have no
160. 6:12idea
161. 6:14if you had your life to live over again
162. 6:17that was given your choice of
163. 6:18assignments during the period of 1944 to
164. 6:211950
165. 6:22can you think of anyone any one
166. 6:24assignment that would have been as
167. 6:26thrilling and as exciting as
168. 6:28this new technology called missiles
169. 6:29narratives not not
170. 6:31really i was always interested in
171. 6:34science and technology as a matter of
172. 6:36fact
173. 6:37the branch of the army i was in before i
174. 6:39got into ordinance was called gadgeteers
175. 6:42we were always interested in this kind
176. 6:43of thing and to me
177. 6:45this was really being out from the
178. 6:47foreign things that were going on
179. 6:49it was the right place to be at bad
180. 6:51times i thought so
181. 6:53i still do
182. 6:56and the better part of this afternoon
183. 6:59talking with colonel james bain
184. 7:03i appreciate your hospitality sir your
185. 7:05memories
186. 7:06and i interview your experiences
187. 7:10well thanks a lot it's been a lot of fun
188. 7:12for me
189. 7:13to relive some of these things some of
190. 7:15which i had almost forgotten
191. 7:18because it was an exciting time
192. 7:21and it's hopefully nice to recall those
193. 7:24things
194. 7:26before we leave today i wonder if you
195. 7:28could take just a few minutes to
196. 7:30tell our audience down in the southern
197. 7:32part of new mexico
198. 7:33and the western part of texas about your
199. 7:36applications
200. 7:37in archaeology
201. 7:40well after retiring from the military
202. 7:44i became
203. 7:47active in archaeology
204. 7:50did a little digging here and there
205. 7:53under uh supervision of
206. 7:54people from the university but
207. 7:57uh became interested about uh
208. 8:02o6345 in the
209. 8:04what we call rock which are the
210. 8:06petroglyphs and pictographs
211. 8:09that the prehistoric peoples made all
212. 8:11over the state
213. 8:14and my wife and i have
214. 8:18been active for 16 or
215. 8:2117 years now in recording these
216. 8:24photographing them mapping them and
217. 8:26filling out the forms that are required
218. 8:28by the museum of new mexico and
219. 8:32also in order to encourage other people
220. 8:35to do the same thing
221. 8:36we run these rock hard recording field
222. 8:40school and we've had it in various parts
223. 8:42of the state
224. 8:43in which we uh tried to instruct the
225. 8:47people who come to the school in the
226. 8:49various techniques and procedures they
227. 8:52have to do to you know to
228. 8:57use the support network uh
229. 9:00to properly record an inventory drop
230. 9:03card
231. 9:03and we have worked for the national park
232. 9:05service forest service
233. 9:07and this summer we will be working
234. 9:11for the bureau of land management at the
235. 9:14three rivers pentagon state
236. 9:16and you've been putting the schools on
237. 9:18ever since this will be the 16th
238. 9:23that's truly impressive i noticed on the
239. 9:26walls of your home a number of
240. 9:28certificates
241. 9:29of appreciation from the governor and
242. 9:32other bodies
243. 9:33for your efforts
244. 9:36well it's uh it's always nice to be
245. 9:39noticed
246. 9:40um because i appreciate them
247. 9:43greatly i would like to say
248. 9:57[Applause]
249. 10:02we paid
250. 10:08well again i've certainly enjoyed being
251. 10:10with you i thank you so much for your
252. 10:11hospitality
253. 10:13and for sharing your memories with me
254. 10:14thank you thank you i appreciate it
255. 10:29it helps if you take help
256. 10:33since i don't have to worry about it
257. 10:34being sequenced now
258. 10:37okay we are actually
259. 10:43colonel bain you have a photograph
260. 10:45laying there on the table i wonder if
261. 10:46you could hold it up for our audience
262. 10:49yes sir here we are
263. 10:52and now could you describe to us who's
264. 10:55in that photograph
265. 10:56and whenever and where it was taken well
266. 10:59the gentleman on
267. 11:00your left as you look at it is colonel
268. 11:04herrick
269. 11:04turner who is the commanding officer of
270. 11:06white sands proving ground or
271. 11:08white sands musketeer range as it's
272. 11:10called today
273. 11:12and i am the one on the right we are
274. 11:15standing in the old block house
275. 11:19which is the control center for our
276. 11:21rocket firing back in those days
277. 11:24and uh colonel turner is explaining to
278. 11:26me
279. 11:30and when was this photograph taken i
280. 11:33can't give you an exact date but it was
281. 11:35either late 46 or early 47.
282. 11:39i see well thank you very much
283. 11:42now i know i'm going to embarrass you
284. 11:44but there's a book i saw laying in the
285. 11:46house earlier today
286. 11:48and when your wife nan so graciously
287. 11:51made us lunch and i wonder if you'd pick
288. 11:53that up and tell our audience just a
289. 11:55little bit about it
290. 11:57well i'm very proud of this
291. 12:02but the archaeological society of new
292. 12:05mexico
293. 12:06every year puts out an annual volume
294. 12:09of papers in honor of
295. 12:14some archaeologist in the state who may
296. 12:17figure her
297. 12:18has contributed something to knowledge
298. 12:21of prehistoric man
299. 12:23and normally this piece go to a
300. 12:25professional
301. 12:26but this is volume number 12
302. 12:30and came out just this year a few months
303. 12:32ago
304. 12:33my honor and it's only the fourth one of
305. 12:38the twelve that has
306. 12:39been uh dedicated to a non-professional
307. 12:44archaeologist all the others have been
308. 12:46professional so
309. 12:48i'm very flattered and very proud of as
310. 12:52well you should be
311. 12:53is there anything inside and i noticed
312. 12:55in the cover it says in honor of james g
313. 12:57bane is there anything inside on you
314. 13:04is there an article inside and oh about
315. 13:06me yes about you
316. 13:08well only a biography of and there's a
317. 13:11photograph of myself and my wife and a
318. 13:14biography
319. 13:15but the papers themselves are written by
320. 13:18friends of mine
321. 13:19and can cover almost any archaeological
322. 13:22subject could you cover some of their
323. 13:23names and where they're from i found
324. 13:25that
325. 13:25to be very interesting well we have uh
326. 13:29stuart j baldwin this is alphabetical
327. 13:35stu is doing work around the mountaineer
328. 13:38area he's from canada
329. 13:42ted frisbee is from illinois and he's
330. 13:44been working recently at the
331. 13:46suny pueblo another friend of mine who
332. 13:51entertained us in africa is a fellow
333. 13:53named peter kenz
334. 13:55in zimbabwe
335. 14:03at the hc woodhouse i'm a little uh
336. 14:07thrown by the hc because they're by
337. 14:09burke
338. 14:10woodhouse from south africa
339. 14:13and the john clegg from australia all of
340. 14:16whom i have had
341. 14:17as we travel around the world that's
342. 14:20fascinating and where have you traveled
343. 14:22in the world could you just briefly
344. 14:24recap some of the places you and your
345. 14:25wife have gone in the last few years
346. 14:28well a lot of it has been to mexico
347. 14:31uh guatemala and
348. 14:34other parts of central america we've
349. 14:36gone to europe
350. 14:37to the caves of spain and france to
351. 14:40scandinavia
352. 14:41to south america and easter island to
353. 14:44zimbabwe
354. 14:45kenya and south africa in africa
355. 14:48we just got back last month from two
356. 14:51weeks and looking at mayan ruins in
357. 14:54belize super just super
358. 14:58i admire you and you're how many years
359. 15:00young well
360. 15:03i look a lot older than i feel
361. 15:08but i just passed my idiot firstly
362. 15:11well that's just fantastic thank you so
363. 15:14much
364. 15:14oh you're very welcome