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Alumni Career Panel D — Transcript

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0:00foreign
0:20welcome
0:27we'll get started in just a few moments
0:40okay you were not kidding about the chat
0:44we'll move quick everyone's there saying
0:47hello
0:48uh welcome everyone
0:51we'll get started in just a few moments
0:53we're over 200 attendees already and and
0:55climbing so thanks for coming tonight
0:58some instructions are presented on the
1:01screen there don't worry your camera and
1:04your audio are disabled intentionally
1:06nothing is wrong there but we'll be able
1:09to communicate either in the chat or
1:12with the Q a feature
1:17so just relax for a few moments we'll
1:19get started in just another minute or
1:21two
1:44foreign
1:56excellent
1:59you'll be able to see that you can uh
2:01send a chat message directly to the just
2:04the host and the panelists me and the
2:07panelists or you can send it to
2:10everybody in the audience if you want to
2:13send a question for me to ask the panel
2:17please use the the button on Zoom that
2:20says Q and A so question and answers
2:23I'll be checking that throughout the
2:25whole event so if you have a question
2:27pop up just type it and send it I might
2:30get to it at the end of the the session
2:32or try to integrate it into the
2:34questions if there's a good time for it
2:36so please send those as the the night
2:39goes on there's no reason to hold back
2:41your questions we'll try to get to as
2:43many as we can and
2:46um I'll do my best to do that for us
2:48foreign
2:54so welcome everyone I'm excited to
2:58welcome two of our alums here J.R and
3:02Isha and I'm excited today because we're
3:06gonna get a a little bit different uh
3:09perspective on Career paths in the field
3:11of psychology so both of our alums are
3:14going down a career path that's been
3:17different from some of our other
3:18panelists and so it's great to have them
3:21here and be able to let give them a
3:25platform to talk about their successes
3:27that they've had out in the field so if
3:30uh you have any questions please put
3:33them in the Q a as we're going along and
3:35I won't be able to read them in the chat
3:37the chat moves fast but if you'd like to
3:39send some praise or gratitude or
3:41anything of some positive reinforcement
3:42to our panelists do that in the chat
3:45that's a great spot for it we can see it
3:47and uh we'll take a look at it it keeps
3:50us going throughout the night
3:52before we get started I'd like to give
3:55the all the audience an opportunity to
3:59share with our panelists a little bit
4:01more about them so we'll do a little
4:03Icebreaker that way our panelists feel
4:04like they're part of the group
4:06I'd like you uh take a moment and then
4:09put your answer to this question in the
4:12chat
4:13what is your dream job or career that
4:16you're considering after graduation
4:18just a word or two if you don't know
4:20that's okay
4:21what is your dream job if you're unsure
4:24put unsure there's nothing that's wrong
4:26with that answer right now we're all
4:28here to learn
4:31all right mft ux researcher I saw on
4:33there uh psychiatrists
4:36business owner
4:38that one's relevant today clinical
4:40psychologists unsure unsure
4:43School psychologists forensic
4:47another ux researcher another ux
4:49researcher
4:52um lmft academic advisor lawyer
4:58IO psychologist
5:01i o psychologist ux researcher all right
5:03people looked at the the BIOS that I
5:05shared and maybe that that's they were
5:07motivated to come tonight for our
5:09panelists a lot of overlap here
5:11own your own company we have out there
5:14mft
5:16uh school teacher or psychologist
5:20a nurse excellence
5:23adult education occupational therapist
5:26social worker definitely tied with
5:28psychology there opportunities there our
5:30therapists interesting
5:32I saw one that's a king of the world I
5:35think you know the world queen of the
5:37world person in charge making all the
5:40decision yes all right
5:45um all right so let's do the next one
5:47what is one thing that might prevent you
5:50from achieving your career goals
5:53foreign 's a little bit more personal
5:56maybe and the first one we're getting is
5:59money money we had about 20 30 monies
6:02there
6:02there's more that can prevent you than
6:04money what else do we have fear
6:07time uh ambiguity on career path
6:13age
6:17just being Unknown about things
6:19self-doubt
6:21family circumstances
6:24several people are mentioning fear uh
6:27you know I think that's probably
6:29relevant to us all I still have that as
6:31a barrier in my life
6:33competitive fields
6:38laziness losing sight of goals that's
6:41fair
6:44and money again well and anxiety those
6:47are some some good answers there
6:50thank you all for sharing I think it
6:52helps our panelists just gain a little
6:54insight into who's out there
6:56I'm sure that they can
6:59connect with you on some of those
7:01barriers and they may even have had
7:03their own that they're willing to share
7:04today so I want to thank you both for
7:07joining me
7:09um I know you're volunteering your time
7:11to be here and time is really valuable
7:15especially in the middle of the week and
7:17I'm sure you have a lot of a lot of
7:19things going on but thank you again and
7:21maybe we'll just jump into it and we'll
7:24start with Isha with our first question
7:26Isha uh can you provide a brief timeline
7:29of the professional events from when you
7:31were a psychology student to where you
7:33are now professionally
7:35yeah hey everyone I'm Isha um thanks for
7:39having me here all right timeline of
7:41events it feels like so long ago yet it
7:44isn't so I actually graduated from
7:47Essence state with my masters in um
7:50psychology in 2019.
7:52and getting a job of course was
7:56um the biggest goal that I had at that
7:58point and my professional life started
8:00shortly after graduating I graduated in
8:03May 2019 and I started my first adult
8:07job
8:09um in August of 2019 so
8:13um between that it was all job hunting
8:15resume workshopping skill learning all
8:17of that but August 2019 is when I became
8:20a ux researcher which is the position
8:23and job that I still do
8:25um all that all that time later so that
8:27is the timeline from when I was a
8:29master's student to then getting my my
8:32job as a ux researcher
8:34I think um a quick follow-up on that um
8:37uh when did you go uh on for your
8:40Masters did you go straight from
8:41undergrad if you take any time off yeah
8:44yeah so I've I like to joke that I
8:47basically lived at SF State all my life
8:48because I went to undergrad also in SF
8:52state from 2013 to 2017 and then jumped
8:56into Masters 2017 to 2019. so definitely
9:00felt like one after the other like go to
9:02school go to college get a job
9:05but yeah so 2017 is when I started my
9:09Master's and 2013 is when I was
9:12and we don't have a a masters in user
9:15experience researcher that's what ux
9:17stands for might not know that so uh
9:22were you in the the social no now it's
9:25called the social personality affect or
9:28were you in the mind brain Behavior
9:31I was technically in the mind brain
9:34Behavior but I kind of did both because
9:36in in the master's program you're
9:38assigned to a research lab that you you
9:40get to do research in and I was kind of
9:42between both the cognitive which is the
9:45mind brain Behavior as well as the
9:46social personality affect of science so
9:49I like to think I'm a master of both but
9:52officially it's my mind written Behavior
9:54great all right thank you for that Jr
9:57how about you what's uh can you provide
9:59a brief timeline of your Professional
10:01Event or a brief timeline of your
10:03professional events from when you were a
10:04psychology student to where you are now
10:07professionally yes thank you so much Dr
10:10Eshelman I'm Jr Guzman and Happy Diwali
10:12to all those who celebrate this week
10:14thank you for having me at the session
10:16um so I started San Francisco State in
10:192012 in the Masters of biopsychology
10:22program graduating in 2014.
10:25um prior to that experience I worked in
10:28residential life on campus at UC San
10:30Diego and I continued in that uh work at
10:34while I was at San Francisco State so I
10:36lived in the towers and stick for those
10:39on this call who may have lived on
10:40campus at sfsu I live there I see you
10:44um and I was fortunate enough to have an
10:47internship my second year in the grad
10:50program working at East Bay mud the
10:52water company in the East Bay here in
10:54the bay area and that was in their HR
10:57department in their employee opportunity
10:59office and so I started my HR career
11:02doing employee investigations and a lot
11:06of compliance work and I really enjoyed
11:08it at the time because it taught me a
11:10lot of HR fundamentals that I hadn't
11:12even thought about when I was thinking
11:14about HR I think oftentimes as a
11:17stereotype that they're just this Ivory
11:18Tower that nobody knows about and
11:20they're not employee friendly that is
11:22not true I had a really solid foundation
11:26there and I moved to work at the city of
11:28Oakland in the same kind of vein doing
11:31employee investigations there as well
11:34and diversity Outreach efforts and I
11:36knew back then that I wanted to become
11:38an HR Manager one day and so I was very
11:40intentional in thinking about my career
11:42path because I didn't want to Pigeon
11:44myself so early in my career and so I
11:47moved from that space to then working at
11:49Stanford University
11:50in Learning and Development so I went
11:53from people who are really upset and
11:55unhappy with their job with the wanting
11:57to file complaints so people who wanted
11:59training and were excited about learning
12:01and so that was a really great
12:03opportunity to work with staff across
12:06all of Stanford University in Learning
12:08and Development and then I jumped from
12:10there to work in the tech industry at an
12:13ad tech company in San Francisco called
12:15Marin software doing recruiting
12:17operations on a global recruiting team
12:19and that was a lot of fun working in the
12:22tech industry in my first job there and
12:24interacting with folks all around the
12:25world and hiring the best talent for all
12:28of our offices in the U.S Asia and
12:30Europe and from there having those
12:33experiences qualified me for an HR
12:35generalist position working at wish.com
12:38the mobile shopping app and that's where
12:41I think my HR career just really
12:42flourished as I had the opportunity to
12:45work in things such as onboarding and
12:48off-boarding all of our employees all
12:49around the world helping with a lot of
12:52our immigration work in hiring employees
12:56as well as supporting all of our
12:58benefits programs and our leave of
13:00absence programs and we went public
13:03during my time there and it was a lot of
13:06fun preparing to go public and having
13:07that happen and it was a super exciting
13:10wonderful experience and now I'm
13:12currently working at a company called
13:14better up in the mental health and
13:16professional development coaching space
13:18and I am an HR business partner here so
13:21I had a lot of HR operations experience
13:24up until this point and now I moved to
13:26the business partner side where I'm
13:28doing a lot of Consulting with a lot of
13:30my client groups on the G A and business
13:32side helping them with a lot of their
13:35team strategies and their team
13:37development and really ensuring that
13:39they have a partner in a lot of their
13:41conversations related to their talent
13:44thanks Jr there was a a good number of
13:49organizations that you listed there but
13:51it sounds like you were always working
13:53within HR human resources for all of
13:56those organizations is that right yes
13:59that's correct okay so uh you kind of
14:02went from uh Stanford uh education there
14:06environment technology environment and
14:09now to your current role but always
14:11working with employees and helping
14:14improve the organizations absolutely and
14:16I just I love doing that and you know
14:18even for folks on this call who might
14:20not be interested in the HR space you
14:22will probably have to interact with HR
14:24when you start a new job so I'm happy to
14:25clarify any questions that they have
14:28because most of us will have to you know
14:30involve ourselves and how an HR is run
14:32especially for those on this call who
14:34want to be a manager one day and have
14:36that support
14:37neat and maybe we'll stick with you with
14:39this next question
14:41um can you provide a little bit more
14:43detail about your daily responsibilities
14:45and role that you have like what is a
14:47typical day in the life of Jr look like
14:50uh right now or if you wanted to talk
14:53about one of your prior roles you could
14:54do that as well it's totally yeah no I'm
14:56happy to talk about my current role um
14:58I've been in it now for a year and a
14:59half and
15:01um the reason why I was so intentional
15:02in wanting to find this HR business
15:04partner job is because I love the fact
15:07that I have so much context switching in
15:10my day and I really like that so for
15:13example just this week
15:15um you know normally I have a lot of
15:16one-on-ones with the managers that I
15:19support
15:20um again I I support the G A and
15:22business side so that's a lot of the
15:23teams like uh legal and finance and
15:27marketing and some business operations
15:29teams and so I check in with the
15:32managers to see how everything's going
15:33with the team with regards to
15:35Performance alignment and they're hiring
15:38and so one-on-ones take up a majority of
15:41my time but in just these two days for
15:43example I've been working with um one
15:45team to do a compensation adjustment for
15:49the team because the market has shifted
15:51and that team we realized is below
15:53parity in the market and so we have new
15:55data to review to you know confirm and
15:59adjust the team and decide you know what
16:01is the right adjustment based on
16:03performance and leveling and one bid
16:06project that I'm working on is also
16:08related to what's called job
16:10architecture so at our company we we
16:13ballooned in a year and a half I was we
16:16were 250 employees when I started and
16:18now we're over 800 and in that time we
16:21realized that our job levels and our job
16:24titles were not consistent across all
16:27teams and so as we continue to expand
16:30and scale it's really critical that we
16:32have those guidelines and that alignment
16:35so that they are able to to calibrate
16:37performance cross-functionally across
16:40all teams and so we just got that
16:42adopted and I'm working with managers to
16:44talk about possible changes to that and
16:47what that might mean would related to
16:50their teams
16:51and on top of that again I still do some
16:53investigations some things that happen
16:56uh you know there's one right now I'm
16:59investigating where somebody alleged
17:00that a marker was thrown at somebody
17:02else and so investigating whether that
17:04workplace violence incident took place
17:06and what happened so that too is you
17:09know another part of my day as well as
17:12supporting any recognition activities so
17:14we have our mid-year employee Awards and
17:17I help managers submit nominations for
17:19their teams and we just completed an
17:21engagement survey so I'm reviewing a lot
17:24of the engagement survey results and
17:26preparing my managers to have
17:28conversations with their teams on how
17:31best they can use this information to
17:33create some new commitments for
17:34improvements on their teams so all of
17:36that takes place during the day
17:39excellent uh What proportion of the day
17:42are you actually working directly with
17:44other people versus maybe behind the
17:47scenes on a computer uh maybe analyzing
17:49the engagement survey data or writing a
17:52report or anything like that yeah I
17:54would say possibly around like two to
17:57three hours of meetings you know
17:59one-on-one with uh managers or my
18:01manager or my team and then the rest of
18:03the time I'm doing emails working behind
18:05the scenes and uh slacking folks on the
18:08side of via our messenger but I luckily
18:10get to work from home as we are a
18:12completely remote company so I really
18:14enjoy that flexibility as well
18:16so you probably started working there
18:18during the pandemic but I'm curious how
18:21a role like yours has maybe changed
18:24um in the last few years is I would
18:27imagine a lot of times this is done face
18:29to face or in an office but now you're
18:31working remote and are you planning to
18:34stay remote that's right so at my
18:36previous company we did go through that
18:38kind of process from being in person to
18:40remote but I started this company being
18:41remote and I will say one of my biggest
18:43fears of leaving my old job was how am I
18:46going to connect with people remotely in
18:48this remote environment I don't know
18:50anybody I just have this tiny little
18:52screen right here and that's all I got
18:55um but I right exactly
18:57um but I realized you know that that is
19:00the challenge of working in the HR world
19:02because my job is to connect with folks
19:04and so I had to really overcome that
19:06fear and that anxiety and just know that
19:08at this point in my career like I've now
19:11achieved a space where I'm comfortable
19:12and confident in my ability to execute
19:15and that my person personality is one
19:17that will shine through and so you know
19:19starting day one like it was super easy
19:21to just get involved because folks
19:23really wanted the HR supports because
19:25that was the first hire there as an HR
19:27business partner so
19:29um I have to you know get over the zoom
19:31fatigue and know that this is how I'm
19:33going to connect with the folks that I
19:35support
19:36great thank you so much Jr uh we'll
19:39shift over to Isha with the same
19:40question can you provide a little more
19:42detail about your daily responsibilities
19:44what is a A Day in the Life look like
19:46for you
19:48yeah
19:49um so I'll just give a quick context of
19:51my current role I'm a user experience
19:54researcher
19:55um and I'm more a mixed methods
19:57researcher which is basically I do both
20:00qualitative and quantitative research so
20:02more user interviews talking to people
20:05who use our products and work at Google
20:07so talking to people who use Gmail or
20:11messages or Android phones to really
20:13understand how their experiences with
20:15our technology where can it be better
20:17and using different types of research
20:20methods like surveys or data analysis or
20:24just qualitative interviews where
20:25one-on-one I'm talking to them trying to
20:27understand where how they're using our
20:29product where it can be better what
20:31problems can you solve for them so
20:34that's my basic roles in responsibility
20:35when it comes to day-to-day
20:38um can I make the joke of you know being
20:40in meetings that should have been emails
20:42is that a program no
20:44um but it's more about meetings as JR
20:46also mentioned right
20:48um even as a user experience researcher
20:50you're not doing work alone you're not
20:53only doing independent work a lot of it
20:55is liaising built building relationships
20:58with the cross-functional partners like
21:01Engineers who build the product product
21:03managers who have to set what the
21:06product should be what we're going to
21:08build in my job as a researcher is to
21:10ensure that the user is represented that
21:12there is a voice of our user it's not
21:15just like a big tech company deciding
21:17what people are going to use it's the
21:18other way around it's like people's
21:20problems what are we solving for and as
21:23a researcher I need to be that bridge to
21:24surface user problems to help the team
21:26build the technology that that's going
21:29to be out there so really working with
21:31them to understand uh their Vision
21:33empathizing with them but also surface
21:36like my user needs through the research
21:37that I do have presentations of research
21:41share research plans understand from
21:44them what's feasible and what's not
21:46feasible and and really build that
21:49relationship and empathy
21:51um with with these stakeholders so a lot
21:52of meetings uh showcasing of my work
21:55presenting my research oral
21:57presentations
21:59um showing them how I approached what is
22:01my recommendation which is one of the
22:03best things that I've learned in my role
22:05is like you're not just like passing a
22:08class right you're you're treated as the
22:10expert like people rely on you as like
22:12hey let's talk to the researcher and see
22:14what they have to say so really
22:16developing my point of view advocating
22:19for that and being like no this is what
22:21I believe in from the research that I
22:23did so here we go so building my case
22:27um and then I'm also
22:29um hybrid so I do go into the office as
22:32well as
22:33um work remote which has been
22:34interesting to uh you know as sjr also
22:38mentioned like not just talk to floating
22:39heads and and build connection with
22:42actual people physically learn how to do
22:45meetings in person again and not just
22:46like camera off mic on
22:49um things like that so yeah it's been
22:52that's that's pretty much the day-to-day
22:53is like doing more heads down work is
22:55what we call it which is me writing a
22:57research plan or me thinking which
22:59research method should I use to answer
23:01this question
23:03um that the team has about our product
23:05how do I recruit participants how do I
23:07interview them how do I build my report
23:09and then majority of the day I would say
23:12about 60 of the days like relationship
23:15building meetings and then 40 is more
23:18focusing on like independent work that I
23:20have to do so
23:22thank you for that it I I think it it
23:26sounds really interesting that you get
23:28to improve technology
23:31um by talking to people
23:34I like that's how I like to describe it
23:35it's it's not you know at tech companies
23:38researcher positions it almost is like
23:41they rely on you to have the answer for
23:43everything should we build this feature
23:44do users like this do users hate this
23:46and that's great but also you know you
23:49have to set expectations like we can't
23:51answer everything right we can Surface
23:52certain issues we can Surface certain
23:54ideas uh but but that's when there's
23:57like this whole function that comes
23:59together to build something but at the
24:01core of it how I like to describe my job
24:03to maybe like an eighth grader right is
24:06like I just help people have a better
24:08relationship through technology like
24:10connect through technology and rely on
24:13technology in a more meaningful
24:14meaningful way
24:16and I think it was really interesting
24:18how you brought up that you're
24:20interacting more than than just with the
24:22consumer uh or the user as you would
24:25describe it yeah it sounds like you're
24:27talking with the people who build it
24:29people maybe who Market it like can you
24:31talk a little more about yeah people
24:33that you might absolutely
24:34[Music]
24:35absolutely that's one of the most
24:38challenging but also rewarding you know
24:40things of being a ux researcher is and
24:43as I mentioned I am a qualitative more
24:45though I'm a little mixed methods
24:47there's even other types of researchers
24:49there's like a market researcher there
24:51is a pure data science researcher
24:53um that I get to engage with but also
24:55people like Marketing sales HR of course
25:00um Engineers uh product managers you
25:04know so there is that face time that I
25:05get to build uh with people who may not
25:09be that in tune with research per se but
25:11but they're building the product so
25:13someone is technical like an engineer
25:14may not know what is the right research
25:16method to choose and I can help them
25:18understand where I'm coming from and
25:20then the other way around too like I may
25:22not know the full technical
25:23nitty-gritties of how to write code to
25:26build a product but I can understand
25:27from them like what's feasible to build
25:29and what's not what's a constraint that
25:31we have from engineering so we really
25:32have to work together to really
25:33understand what's that sweet spot where
25:36Engineers can build it and users can
25:38benefit from it so
25:40um yeah it's not limited to just these
25:43roles it all ux research involved what
25:46we like to call it is like seat at the
25:47table like we get that seat at the table
25:49because we have to bring the voice of
25:52the user uh to everyone that's
25:54responsible for building the product
25:56ranging from like the the leader the
25:58leadership the higher level CEO to like
26:01the engineer who's actually writing the
26:03code to to ship the product so we go
26:05across horizontally for
26:07um most of these collaborations great
26:10thank you for elaborating on that and
26:12we'll stick with you for the the next
26:14question what characteristic is most
26:16important to do your job well or
26:18characteristics uh plural and if you
26:22could could you pick one that you've
26:24been able to develop at some point in
26:26your career and explain how you were
26:28able to do that
26:30yeah I can I feel like I can have I can
26:32pull out a list of characteristics uh
26:35but I'll I'll give I'll name a top view
26:37and then I'll focus on one
26:39um I'm gonna I'm gonna not just talk
26:42about academic or knowledge that you
26:44would need but I think to actually apply
26:47what you learn from school or University
26:49or anything one of the biggest things
26:51you need is empathy
26:53um empathy for the people that you work
26:55with empathy for yourself in my case
26:58it's empathy for the user right like I
27:01might go in with this bias of of course
27:03we all worked on this this little icon
27:06or this product and it's so great
27:08everybody's gonna love it and then but
27:10but if I go in with that I'm not going
27:12to be serving the user to have the
27:14empathy from where a user might be like
27:15I hate this product it's so bad and
27:18understanding where that comes from
27:20um so having empathy really I think is
27:22important uh
27:24an important characteristic especially
27:26for a user researcher
27:28um my second top one would would be
27:30ability to to I don't know what you
27:33would call this but ability to say no
27:34maybe assertive being assertive
27:37um you know I like to think of don't
27:38think about what you're saying no to ask
27:40yourself what what are you saying yes to
27:42right like if you say yes to this what
27:45does that mean
27:47um and that that's another
27:48characteristic that I value in my job
27:50that I've learned from this job actually
27:52that I didn't have before
27:55um and then the third most important one
27:57would be
27:58I think just collaboration but with the
28:02trade-off that also be confident in your
28:05opinion that you're treated as the
28:06expert
28:07um and and just feel free to own that
28:09point of view and and I
28:11definitely am still learning to develop
28:13this in myself but uh it's more on be
28:16confident to own your your point of view
28:18is are the three most things and I will
28:20focus on the last one um that is
28:21something that's so so important to my
28:23job uh because when when they're like
28:26Isha what do you think about what do you
28:27think we should do you know I have to be
28:29like am I going to say the right thing
28:31am I like overstating something is the
28:34entire team gonna make this decision on
28:36based off of what I'm gonna say it can
28:38feel like a lot of pressure but being
28:40being
28:41um you know confident in that you know
28:43how to do the research or you've done
28:45you've done like your your work and you
28:48just have to communicate that
28:50um is something that I value the most
28:52I'm learning how to do
28:54um on on a day-to-day basis so yeah
28:58great thank you for that um I'm curious
29:01if you're working on those every day uh
29:05but how have you gotten better at either
29:07empathy or
29:10assertiveness or any of those those yeah
29:15um I think empathy was was something
29:18that I I feel like as a person I always
29:20had so it just kept getting better and
29:22better assertiveness and and just being
29:24able to be confident is something that I
29:28still work on it but what I like to do
29:30first of all is look at look at talk to
29:32my HR not just saying because Jr is here
29:35but like talk to HR and see what
29:37resources does the company offer right
29:39whether it's online trainings seminars
29:42self-study
29:43um an official some sort of what
29:45resources are are offered uh from my
29:48company to help with these
29:50um and then on my own it's like looking
29:52for podcasts or social media like just
29:54just seek that information right like
29:56whether it's good books
29:58um and then try to practice it a little
30:00by little it's it's you can't you can't
30:02be empathetic overnight right you can't
30:04be assertive overnight it's like what is
30:06that realistic short-term goal that I
30:09could set for myself so something that I
30:10recently did is like okay
30:12in this meeting where I'm presenting my
30:14research I'm going to State something
30:16this way right if I'm going to say like
30:19like instead of saying like oh we should
30:21maybe think about doing this I will say
30:24we should do this it's something as
30:25small as that that could be like okay
30:27I'm developing my point of view I'm
30:28being assertive
30:30um so really setting those smaller goals
30:32and seeing where can I like have the
30:34opportunity to practice this and then
30:37slowly like develop that in myself
30:38versus like trying to also like
30:40constantly be like I need to be sort of
30:42I need to be assertive so
30:44um that's like the approach I take uh to
30:46to try and hone these skills all right
30:48thank you for that and I really liked
30:50how you mentioned empathy there because
30:51I thought it uh it made the connection
30:54to psychology very clear then you know
30:57how studying how people use technology
30:59it really is a form of trying to
31:02empathize with them and we normally
31:04think of empathy connected to clinical
31:06psychologists or therapy so that was an
31:08interesting point you shared
31:12we'll shift over to you with what
31:15characteristic or characteristics are
31:18most important to do your job well and
31:20if you could pick one could you explain
31:22how you might have been able to improve
31:24upon that characteristic or that skill
31:26yeah absolutely and by the way I see two
31:28questions in the Q a and I'm going to
31:30answer them in these next two questions
31:31so q a folks I got you
31:34um but yeah so first of all I Echo what
31:36Isha said about the empathy piece and
31:38saying no like that's absolutely correct
31:40and I too live that so I'm so glad she
31:43spoke to that
31:44um in my role specifically something
31:46that I have to confront every day is the
31:49ability to be objective in all matters
31:52because again HR is to support employees
31:55and so I have to constantly monitor
31:58myself and check in with how I'm doing
32:00and I know lots of folks here typed in
32:02they want to be a clinical psychologist
32:03or mft counselor and so I think you
32:06folks understand that like when people
32:08come to you we have to be impartial and
32:11we have to be you know able to be with
32:13them and have them have their moment and
32:15us not get caught up in that or us not
32:18show any partiality like you know if
32:21Isha you know Dr Ashton and I were
32:22hanging out in the workplace and Dr
32:24Eshelman and I are BFFs always hanging
32:25out
32:26um it's going to be a conflict of
32:28interest if Isha needs to come to me to
32:30tell me some feedback or some concerns
32:32about Dr Eshelman because she knows that
32:34we're so close and so oftentimes I'm not
32:38as close to some of my co-workers
32:40outside of the HR department as I
32:42normally would be if I wasn't in this
32:44role and it's because I need to maintain
32:46that objectivity and have everyone feel
32:48comfortable coming to me and on that
32:51same token I also need to acknowledge my
32:55privilege and what I mean by that is I'm
32:57obviously you know a cisgender male you
33:00know Latino and I also have to be
33:02available to all other folks in the
33:04workplace you know including women other
33:06minorities non-identifying folks and so
33:09that can sometimes times be a challenge
33:11for some in the HR career because I have
33:14to get outside of my head in order to
33:17kind of understand what that means and
33:18for example I remember at the first tech
33:22job where I worked there was a group of
33:25Engineers that were interviewing a
33:27female candidate she was fresh out of
33:28college possibly a age of a lot of you
33:31folks on this call and she was
33:33interviewing with the team for a
33:35designer role and so she was going to
33:38present her portfolio to the team and
33:40they organized a panel interview of
33:43eight men to interview her and I
33:47remember checking out the room because
33:48she had just gotten in I looked I'm like
33:50oh my God I'm like is there no woman
33:52okay that could be in this room all of
33:54us have you know read those studies how
33:56important it is to have folks that look
33:58like you in the room when you're
34:00interviewing so you can see yourself in
34:01the company and so the CTO had joined
34:04the interview as well the chief
34:06technology officer and so I pulled him
34:08aside and I said I don't feel
34:10comfortable with us moving forward with
34:11this panel the way it's currently
34:12organized we need a woman here so that
34:15she feels comfortable and that she can
34:17see herself represented at our company
34:19because going in front of a room full of
34:21you know eight older men can be
34:23difficult and jarring it's just not
34:24right and he was like oh my God Jr you
34:27are absolutely right thank you for
34:29checking us on this he's like I'll be
34:31right back and so he went to the
34:33technology floor and was and picked the
34:35two most senior women in engineering and
34:38brought them into the interview
34:40and so I was like okay thank God and so
34:43I brought the candidate in and the
34:45candidate remarks was like oh my God and
34:46she quickly like said hello to the women
34:48who were previously she hadn't
34:50interviewed with and so um She
34:52interviewed and she got the job and and
34:54the CTO later was like Jared thank you
34:56for checking me
34:58um and the group because we hadn't
35:00thought about that and so that's
35:02oftentimes something that I have to do
35:03in my role and really you know make sure
35:06that people are thinking about that and
35:08have that top of Mind regardless you
35:10know of the situation and just making a
35:12lot of their talent decisions
35:15foreign
35:17thank you Jr and I think you you hit on
35:19a few of the points that were in the Q a
35:21about what some of the hardest parts of
35:23your job in there and uh really what are
35:25the roles that you're you're tackling
35:28and I can definitely connect with a lot
35:30of what you said just in education of
35:32trying the difficulty of recognizing my
35:34privilege so thank you for bringing up
35:36that point I thought it was a good one
35:38to chat about there uh we'll stick yeah
35:42go ahead
35:44no I'm just gonna add something
35:46um that Jr reminded me of is that is
35:48true for for Tech rules too
35:51um I will say we were testing an app and
35:54the team's like yeah this is everything
35:55is perfected it meets like Google
35:57standards like we're ready to launch it
35:59in one of the studies we just happened
36:01to have someone who
36:04um you know was using a screen reader or
36:07assistive technology and was colorblind
36:10and they couldn't see like that specific
36:13feature in the app right so and then we
36:15were like wait
36:17our one of our goals is to be more
36:19universally accessible and like build
36:21for everyone right are we really doing a
36:23good job of making sure they're
36:24represented they're included so even as
36:27a user research now it's my job to
36:29ensure when we're talking to users we're
36:31just not talking to Bay Area tech tech
36:33already tech savvy people we have to
36:36take in mind like different markets
36:38right different countries different
36:40socioeconomic status different age age
36:43group different
36:45um you know accessibility needs and we
36:48we don't want to do research for
36:50accessible users they are our users
36:52right so just be even even as a
36:54researcher you have to think about
36:57um making sure that your research is
36:59inclusive which will help your product
37:01be inclusive so
37:04um yeah extending on the empathy part
37:05it's also like fighting for making sure
37:07that you are bringing raising these
37:09points and not afraid to raise them and
37:11be like hey we should absolutely do this
37:14um so so yeah just wanted to add that
37:17oh I love it I think it's really
37:19interesting to hear how psychology is
37:21playing you know trying to make an
37:23environment more inclusive whether it's
37:25in consumer Behavior or
37:28in hiring and leadership in an
37:31organization so thank you for chiming in
37:33there
37:34uh Jr we'll we'll bounce back to you
37:37with the next question is what is a
37:40challenge that you have faced during
37:41your career Pursuit and how did you
37:43address this challenge
37:45yeah and I think this speaks to the
37:46other Anonymous q a question there
37:49um so you know a lot of things come my
37:52way of course and we have to make
37:54recommendations whether it is on you
37:56know promoting someone
37:58um deciding to you know fire someone
37:59based off of performance or org changes
38:03or all of these things that affect
38:05people and so there are emotions
38:08involved obviously when change happens
38:10when people move and it's so important
38:14to keep that top of Mind however there
38:17are going to be times where my
38:19recommendations my consultations all of
38:22my data I have ready to show inform the
38:25decision they choose to do something
38:27else the manager chooses to go a
38:29different path the executive team
38:31chooses something else
38:33um you know and and I can't do anything
38:35and it will stay early on in my career
38:37it really uh upset me I was like oh my
38:39God like we're going to be put up to
38:41litigation or we this employee is going
38:44to be a disadvantaged image and I would
38:46just get so stuck in it I'd be just get
38:48really upset and so I had to again the
38:51objectivity and learn to accept that
38:54like my job is not to execute my job is
38:57to advise and partner and inform and
39:00that is my job and so I can provide the
39:03whole platter of options but it's up to
39:06the manager or the person in charge to
39:08make the decision and I have to support
39:10that decision whether or not I
39:12personally agree with it and so it was
39:16hard for me at first to divorce myself
39:18from that but as I grew in my career I
39:20realized that yeah it is a business
39:22decision and as long as I did my job and
39:26informed them of the possible
39:27repercussions and I'm okay and again you
39:30know some I definitely had some I Told
39:32You So moments
39:33um but you know that was the choice that
39:35the business made and so I really do in
39:37in the places where I've worked and in
39:40my role I really make sure that the
39:41employee experience is top of mind with
39:44decisions that that are made
39:48thanks chair I don't think many people
39:50would think of that type of challenge
39:52when it comes to being in HR or being an
39:56i o psychologist and so I think that was
39:59really unique I appreciate you sharing
40:01Isha uh we'll we'll do the same question
40:03for you what is the challenge that you
40:05face during your career Pursuit and how
40:07to address this job
40:10uh rejection rejection is real I will
40:13say like is whether you have a master's
40:16degree PhD or a bachelor's or no degree
40:19like getting a job is is never is I
40:22don't think has ever been easy but
40:24especially post covid I remember from
40:27from May Since I graduated until August
40:29I started my job I was just applying to
40:32jobs every day and looking on LinkedIn
40:34trying to socialize try to network
40:36trying to be like do things like this
40:38it's like is there like anybody I can
40:40reach out to or like hi I just want to
40:42learn more about this field and that can
40:44be that can that can take a toll right
40:46like there are moments where I wanted to
40:48quit and just be like I don't know like
40:49I don't want to do this anymore what am
40:51I even doing am I even qualified am I
40:54even gonna get any like decent job
40:56because of the competitive uh nature so
41:00rejection was definitely one of the
41:02biggest challenges in my career Pursuit
41:04um I'm trying to deal with that you know
41:06a by recognizing that it's not always my
41:10fault I think having Jr here is great
41:12because he he spoke about that
41:15um HR processes like sometimes it's just
41:17the system sometimes it's not because
41:19you're not qualified or you're not good
41:20enough it's it's because they're looking
41:22for someone else right so really
41:24recognizing that and and having that
41:27motivation to like okay keep trying like
41:29maybe I need to learn different skills
41:30maybe I need to reach out to people and
41:32actually see what it what are skills
41:35from Academia I can translate into this
41:37job and say like hey I may not have you
41:40know the exact years of experience that
41:41they require but I have the right skills
41:43so workshopping my resume so
41:46really just soaking it in feeling angry
41:49at rejection but also like finding
41:51motivation to keep trying
41:52um that was one one of the biggest ones
41:54and and the other one not just career
41:57Pursuit but like now I'm looking to grow
42:00right like you don't want to be stagnant
42:03so you want to grow you want to like see
42:05okay I've done this for three years now
42:07and the role that I am what's next for
42:09me like do I take on more do I get
42:11promoted how do I approach that so again
42:14trying to figure out like what is it
42:16where is it that I want to be and like
42:19um how do I achieve that is something
42:21that I'm thinking about now which can be
42:23challenging right it's like how do I
42:25approach this do I know I'm ready do I
42:27want to take on more how do I even know
42:29that how that works for my company so
42:31these are two things that both were
42:33challenges when I first started looking
42:35for a job and then now that I've done it
42:37for so long for me
42:40great thank you for that and you know I
42:43think for somebody being in their career
42:45now for a while I still experience
42:47rejection
42:48um and failure it yeah inevitable it
42:52comes back and it's constantly there but
42:56I like how you connected the two because
42:59they do go together thinking about
43:01really what your next steps are a lot of
43:03times that fear of failure rejection are
43:06what prevents us from even thinking
43:09about it and making a a thought or a
43:12goal for it and so not even the pursuit
43:14just the thought so thank you for
43:17sharing that
43:18the next question I have and maybe you
43:21both have a thought on it Misha we'll
43:22start with you what are some ethical or
43:25moral dilemmas that you've experienced
43:27uh as a psychologist you talked a little
43:30bit about inclusion that could be it but
43:32any other thoughts on ethical or morals
43:36yeah you know
43:39like I've always lived in San Francisco
43:41so I knew this was like the tech Hub
43:43Tech Capital all of this stuff but then
43:46there also was this perception that's oh
43:48no I'm joining big bad tag like evil
43:50tech company I'm gonna be doing evil
43:53things I have I'm not gonna lie I had
43:55that perception when I got this job
43:57right
43:58um but one of the things that I still
44:00think about is like what are the
44:03what is how do I strike this balance how
44:06do I be comfortable in like supporting
44:08this big business this big tech company
44:10when maybe some of the features like
44:13things like privacy features or or
44:15getting user data retaining user data
44:17like how do I make sure that as a
44:20researcher who may not have influence on
44:22the entire big company like Google but
44:25how do I still make sure with the work
44:27that I do is surfacing those concerns
44:30right in in a way that's meaningful or
44:33how do I make sure that I can impact
44:35those things right so for me it's more
44:37about like balancing the decision
44:38between business a business goal because
44:41the end of the day I need to help my
44:43company meet the goal I need to help my
44:45team I need to deliver for my team to be
44:48whether it's successful profitable
44:50whatever the the metric there is while
44:53still making sure that I'm not
44:54supporting a feature or a product that's
44:57you know ethically or morally
45:00questionable so
45:01um I think that's something that I
45:03always struggle with
45:04um and
45:05and and just try to voice as much as I
45:08can whether it's to my manager whether
45:10it's to HR or just see like hey like I'm
45:12not comfortable with this how do we
45:14approach this so just having an open
45:15conversation about it definitely helps
45:17but that's and that's the accessibility
45:20part all of that is part of it right
45:21like are we really thinking about this
45:23or are we just building a future for a
45:25specific user set or a product or a
45:27specific user said so
45:29um that's definitely one of the the
45:31dilemmas that I I think about all the
45:33time even though I love I love my job I
45:35like to think that I love the company
45:37that I work for I love my experience in
45:39it so far doesn't mean that I I should
45:41be okay with everything thing
45:43all right thank you for that
45:46um it sounds like you could spin it in a
45:49way to you could take actions in social
45:53justice or against something you know
45:55that you find morally unfit if you can
45:59connect it to what the company also
46:01cares about so there is an opportunity
46:02to have an impact yeah connect those two
46:05and that's a really unique challenge
46:07professionally yeah and so it's kind of
46:10a neat idea
46:11that you can still make absolutely
46:14um I I say the best approach is to be to
46:17frame it as a user problem instead of
46:19saying like this is a made-up example
46:22but instead of saying like we should
46:23have retained their data because it's a
46:25bad thing to do we can be like hey users
46:27will not use their product if we put
46:29this in front of them then it becomes
46:32like oh we're going to lose our users
46:33that's a problem we don't want that
46:35let's fix it so I think it's it's
46:37definitely the another skill you have to
46:39learn is it your user experience
46:41researcher is to frame user problems in
46:44a way that's you know likely more
46:47actionable uh by the company or by the
46:49team
46:50um and by showing them why they should
46:52care about it so yeah great thank you
46:55Jr uh what's uh what are some ethical
46:59moral dilemmas that you've experienced
47:00as a psychologist yeah
47:03um so for those that know I mean in
47:06Human Resources I have everything plus
47:09the kitchen sink like I have access to
47:11all of your data your birthday your you
47:14know benefits all of this stuff right
47:16and mind you I'm not just sitting there
47:18looking at all of it obviously but
47:20because I'm so privy to a lot of
47:22information again I need to be careful
47:25with what I say and how I say it and so
47:29oftentimes you know I have my my
47:31verbiage and the words that I use are
47:34important when I'm speaking to managers
47:36or employees because I don't want to say
47:37the wrong thing and it's like oh well Jr
47:39and HR said blah blah blah
47:41um and also there are some ethical
47:44components to some of the information I
47:46have access to so if you know for
47:48example
47:50um there might be an employee who's not
47:52performing and the managers like we need
47:53to fire this employee get them out of
47:55here they've got to go like today and I
47:58know that the employee has some kind of
47:59mental health issue or
48:02um you know has a domestic violence
48:04issue in the home
48:05um things that I've encountered I can't
48:07go telling the manager this like that's
48:09inappropriate and violates so many laws
48:12and so I have to both help the employee
48:15and as well keep the manager at Bay and
48:18kind of manage those two situations
48:19because it's so
48:22um as people we want to be relational we
48:24want to make sure everyone's taken care
48:25of but again I have to have my HR hat on
48:27and understand that there's some moments
48:29that I just can't share even though I am
48:31privy to a lot of information so I've
48:34definitely had to censure myself and
48:37proceed with caution oftentimes when
48:39there are folks that just want more
48:41information that's not appropriate to
48:43share or unethical to share
48:48thank you Jr I have a follow-up there it
48:51yeah it really does sound like you're
48:52trying to help the workers and when
48:55there is an issue where that you're
48:57investigating that you're you want to
48:58help them it's it's is it true to say
49:01that uh you're not providing them
49:03psychological counseling like a
49:06therapist might but what exactly what
49:08how are you helping them
49:09correct yeah I'm I'm not a counselor uh
49:12like some of my folks on on the chat
49:14here at wannabe
49:15um God bless all of you that's a hard
49:17job but we need it
49:19um but my job is to just listen and to
49:21understand and make sure employees have
49:24an advocate
49:26um that they that they feel like they
49:27can share something because oftentimes
49:29they just want to be heard and and again
49:31most of the times I'm not sitting there
49:33providing them with decisions I'm just
49:36making sure that they have an Avenue and
49:38a space to be vulnerable and to really
49:41be raw in their stories and their
49:43emotions and how they're feeling whether
49:44it's they're having a difficult time
49:46with their manager or they just have
49:49uncertainty with their career or they
49:51need to navigate something or they just
49:53need a mental health day like you know
49:55those are areas where I can push them to
49:58resources or I can make recommendations
50:00but I'm by no means telling them what to
50:03do or prescribing them with something
50:05again I'm just a soundboard and that's
50:07oftentimes Again difficult to do because
50:09I want to help I want to be you know
50:12provide Solutions but that's not always
50:14going to be my job to do that for the
50:16person
50:19great thank you for clarifying that for
50:21myself and the audience uh Jr we'll
50:24stick with you on this question is
50:26what's a professional tip you'd give
50:28your college age self oh my God so many
50:31things
50:32um I would probably say
50:35um
50:36to say yes and by that I mean for those
50:40of us you know we all can recall what
50:42our first job was fresh out of college
50:43it's not the most glamorous stupendous
50:45you know amazing title
50:48um and and there's some little bit of
50:50you know paying our dues in the sense
50:51that like we're not going to get this
50:53high profile job fresh out of college
50:55and so for those of us in starting an
50:57entry level careers say yes to projects
51:00that you are assigned and say yes when
51:03manager is like hey do you want to
51:04observe this meeting or do you want to
51:07be a part of this focus group or do you
51:09want visibility into blah blah blah like
51:11all of those are resume builders if you
51:15do something once it goes on your resume
51:17you know and and to just be open to say
51:21yes to things it's going to get you
51:23farther even if the work is not the most
51:25glamorous wonderful thing you'll be able
51:27to say oh I did that or I ran that audit
51:29or yeah actually I did I know how to
51:31review files or I know how to create
51:33this spreadsheet of blah blah blah and
51:36that's going to to get you ahead versus
51:37somebody who's just staying in their
51:38role and they're doing exactly their own
51:40role those people don't get ahead as far
51:43as those who are more intentional and
51:45are open to experiences and so I
51:47encourage everyone on this call to think
51:49about transferable skill sets and and
51:52saying yes to things because you can put
51:54it on your resume
51:56great thank you for Jr and got some
51:59responses in the chat Katie mentioned
52:01that that was great advice I agree uh
52:04just thinking outside your your role and
52:06just shadowing people that are in your
52:09organization can help you either find
52:12different career opportunities or even
52:14learn how to do something like you just
52:16mentioned so great advice there Isha how
52:19about you what's a professional tip
52:21you'd give your college age self
52:24uh my professional or the tip I would
52:28give my college self is honestly not
52:31being afraid to ask questions
52:34um I think so much so much of the time
52:36in college I just kept like
52:40getting prescriptions right like okay
52:41this is what my Pi told me to do this is
52:44what this one's telling me to do this is
52:46what you know just question things and
52:48that's not to say like question
52:50everything or be difficult but at the
52:52same time it's like ask why and as a
52:55researcher that's one of the most
52:56important things to do it's like ask why
52:58even ask yourself is like if I say I
53:01want to be a researcher ask myself like
53:03why why do you want to be a researcher
53:04right like what are the what are the
53:06different reasons what are things to
53:07consider
53:09um or if someone tells you like you need
53:10this like just generally I think not
53:13being afraid to ask questions whether it
53:15was in class you know if I had a doubt I
53:17wouldn't ask questions
53:19um but now at my job I'm I'm required to
53:22ask questions to be able to do my job so
53:25um asking questions and then plus one to
53:27what Jr said is like trying to get soft
53:30and and hard experience right like it's
53:33it's not only like actual job experience
53:35that you do that goes on your resume
53:36it's soft skills it's like projects that
53:39you were a part of or or Publications in
53:42the academic setting right like that you
53:44contributed to to finding smaller ways
53:47um to contribute even if it's just your
53:49name is just added to it right it
53:50sometimes could feel trivia or like I
53:52didn't really do work for this but I'm
53:53getting credit
53:54I think that's fine it's like as long as
53:56you're you're giving something whether
53:58it's thought whether it's creativity
54:00whether it's actual work that you do
54:02so just finding something to contribute
54:05to to be a part of that that you can
54:07then say like hey I was a part of this
54:09team that that did that right like
54:11really really not just teaches you
54:13things but also gives you something to
54:15speak about and gives you experiences
54:17that you can talk about in your job
54:19interviews like one of the things I
54:21thought was okay I'll just have all like
54:22I took all of these classes I know all
54:25these skills that's going to be enough
54:26but in my interview I was actually asked
54:29about real life experiences or stories
54:32or narratives that I was a part of and
54:34what did I specifically contribute to it
54:37right so
54:39um things like that or or what I would
54:41advise myself to think about and
54:43participate in in more
54:45great thank you we've had a few
54:48questions in the chat in the Q a that I
54:51I spotted and
54:53um both of you uh went on to get a
54:55master's degree in in related but
54:58different fields of psychology Jr got a
55:00masters in industrial organizational
55:02psychology uh Isha you got a Master's in
55:05psychology with an emphasis of mind
55:07brain and behavior really getting mixed
55:09methods mixed research skills during
55:12that Pursuit
55:13a lot of our students want to know about
55:15that uh that degree Pursuit maybe
55:19um what what did that entail in terms of
55:22your professional experience and is it
55:25needed to get a PhD uh or you you know
55:28good with the Masters could you get
55:30involved with less than a masters
55:31anything that you can speak of regarding
55:33the education in your field
55:36uh Jr or do you want to start with that
55:39one
55:40sure
55:41um so yeah for folks if you are
55:44interested in getting into your field
55:45absolutely well you are a student take
55:48advantage of internship opportunities it
55:50is so great to do it while you are a
55:52student because your managers or your
55:55site supervisors understand that you are
55:58a student and so the expectations are
56:00that you are learning and that you are
56:02growing versus if you weren't a student
56:04in the full-time Workforce you know nine
56:06to five or whatever your hours are you
56:08got to be there and so you know I would
56:10definitely recommend using your you know
56:13status as a student to find learning
56:16opportunities and for me in my career I
56:19did take a gap year because uh between
56:21my undergrad and grad because of a job
56:24that I still had in residential life
56:26that carried over through the next year
56:29um that was just my personal kind of
56:31experience but from what I've heard from
56:34my peers is those that go straight into
56:35grad school they're tired
56:38um but so if you want to you know
56:40continue through that by all means like
56:42God bless you but you know there's some
56:44folks who want to just you know take a
56:46break and you know do an internship or
56:48or go you know get a certification or go
56:51do some exploring I mean when I
56:53graduated my undergrad I didn't even
56:55know I O Psychology was a thing back
56:58then it kind of wasn't I didn't have
57:00that undergraduate class at UC San Diego
57:02at the time
57:04um but as soon as I you know I picked up
57:06a book at
57:07um at Borders back when borders existed
57:11um and I I investigated psychology and I
57:13was like what is this
57:14industrializational psychology oh my God
57:16this is so cool this new field at the
57:17time
57:18um and that's when I found out that sfsu
57:21has a really awesome program so I was
57:23like this is where I'm going I'm going I
57:25got to do this
57:26um so do that exploration because what
57:28you think you want to do now might not
57:31be what you want to do after you
57:32graduate
57:35Jr do you see anybody with phds in your
57:38organizations in HR
57:41in HR not so much phds
57:44um I do see it on the research scientist
57:47side that might be behavioral scientists
57:49I do see that for those who have phds
57:52it's mostly because they want to teach
57:54or they want to do research
57:57um but but yeah I mean you can
57:58absolutely go do the the PHD route and
58:01it's great and it speaks very highly of
58:04you but um in my experience I've not
58:06seen that on my HR teams particularly
58:09excellent I'm a big fan of not pursuing
58:12more debt or consuming processes than
58:15you have to so sounds like you can be
58:17very successful with a master's degree
58:19Isha uh how about you what uh but who's
58:23on your team do you have anybody with
58:25just an undergrad a degree in psychology
58:28PhD so I'll take a step back and and say
58:32I got rejected from a master's program
58:34and I got rejected from an i o master's
58:37program and I thought that's it I'm
58:39never going to get a job this is the end
58:41of the world
58:42um but eventually I did get into the
58:45master's program that I did but I'm also
58:47an international student or I was at
58:49international student at that point when
58:51I was at SF State you know and I don't
58:53know if it's still the same but I had a
58:55unique struggle where I couldn't pursue
58:57internships or you know off-campus jobs
58:59so I almost had to do you know another
59:03degree just so I can like
59:06um do get that experience because I
59:09couldn't have a real world experience
59:10right so I needed to do some sort of
59:12academic research before I I started to
59:14find my job so for me that was the
59:16motivation uh but in my I interview for
59:20Google so I also interview candidates
59:22who are interested in applying for ux
59:25research positions and I will say that
59:29having all these degrees whether it's
59:31bachelor's Master's or a PhD isn't is a
59:33bonus for sure but it's not a
59:35requirement it literally goes under
59:37preferred qualifications what that
59:40really means in my opinion and
59:41experience is that you may not get that
59:44higher ranking you know position because
59:46of you don't have those degrees but it
59:49doesn't mean that if you don't have it
59:51you're you're there's no chance of you
59:53getting into you know a tech company
59:54doing ux research in my particular team
59:57for for instance
59:59um you know we have a few Master people
1:00:02people who have a master's degree we
1:00:04have loads who just have have a
1:00:07bachelor's degree this includes even
1:00:08software Engineers
1:00:10um you know when you think of like it's
1:00:11a very technical role there's still only
1:00:13a bachelor's degree
1:00:16um and then we also have roles for for
1:00:18people who don't have you know actual
1:00:21work experience but just have a
1:00:23bachelor's degree right so again it's
1:00:25all about like how much of the skills
1:00:26are you able to translate and learn on
1:00:29the Go versus no you need to have this
1:00:31this
1:00:32um as a minimum qualification it just
1:00:35restricts your your job
1:00:37um types of roles if you will
1:00:40um so you may not get like the very high
1:00:42high level very experienced role you
1:00:44might do a more entry-level role which
1:00:46comes with its own on um trade-offs but
1:00:49but yeah it's not it's not a requirement
1:00:52um there are definitely roles that are
1:00:55are you know even at a tech company or
1:00:57even as a researcher that requires you
1:00:59to do like you know science or data
1:01:02analysis or things like that that you
1:01:04can still do with with a bachelor's
1:01:05degree
1:01:06thanks Isha um Isha uh for the audience
1:01:10out there many of them are going to be
1:01:12connecting to what you do professionally
1:01:14we saw it in the chat several people
1:01:16wanting to go into ux research
1:01:18what can they do right now as an
1:01:21undergrad how to graduate that gets them
1:01:23some experience of what you're doing
1:01:25like what are some roles or
1:01:27yeah yeah
1:01:28totally that's that's that's that's like
1:01:31one of my favorite questions so the the
1:01:34transferable skills that I would work on
1:01:36developing especially for undergrad
1:01:37students and um is is taking more
1:01:40research methods class whether it's
1:01:42research method psychology or other
1:01:45types of research methods like data
1:01:47science for example
1:01:49um because that really is the core of
1:01:51being a user experience researcher the
1:01:53the ability to identify you know have
1:01:55that scientific thinking ability to
1:01:57identify what method could be used to
1:02:00answer what types of question
1:02:01limitations of survey versus like an
1:02:06interview versus like you know an
1:02:07experiment so really and I think there
1:02:10are like GE courses also that are like
1:02:12research methods or intro to whatever I
1:02:14think really taking those classes at
1:02:17least getting a baseline understanding
1:02:18of what does this field entail is
1:02:21something that I didn't do but I would
1:02:23recommend folks to do and and I see in
1:02:27the chat someone said design certificate
1:02:29yeah there are a lot of Open Source free
1:02:31courses you know like Udacity Coursera
1:02:34even Google offers some to just get the
1:02:36feel of it like what does it actually
1:02:38mean to do this what type of you know
1:02:40work I would be doing
1:02:42um but but from an academic perspective
1:02:44is to really take research method
1:02:46classes and and how to do research how
1:02:49to conduct research with human
1:02:50participants or key skills that I
1:02:53learned from SF state that really really
1:02:55came in came in handy great thank you
1:02:58and Jr you've also been connecting with
1:03:00quite a few of the attendees out there
1:03:02and I'm sure you've maybe converted a
1:03:05few people into HR or business
1:03:07management and how could they get
1:03:09involved in the field right now so that
1:03:12maybe they can be more competitive for
1:03:14those higher up jobs later down the road
1:03:17yeah I mean absolutely I have helped a
1:03:20lot of my grad peers and undergrad peers
1:03:23get jobs and I've interviewed some and
1:03:25I've hired some
1:03:26um but yeah absolutely if you are
1:03:28interested in going in this career path
1:03:30like I know Pearl I see you shout out a
1:03:32social worker there are so many
1:03:34transferable skills if you are working
1:03:36with people and you are working you know
1:03:39with teams and groups and so HR is not
1:03:44always so linear compared to some other
1:03:46degree programs and so there's a lot of
1:03:49diverse skill sets I see a ton of people
1:03:51that have Clinical Psychology
1:03:53backgrounds or social work or even
1:03:55student affairs get into the HR field
1:03:58and I encourage those that look for
1:04:01internships like you know look in your
1:04:04local community whether it's in a public
1:04:06sector or in a student affairs position
1:04:09where you can you know either create
1:04:12trainings for folks or review or audit
1:04:15files for some compliance thing
1:04:18um you know create
1:04:20um uh you know some kind of recruitment
1:04:22or hiring a tool maybe you want to join
1:04:25an interview panel or for some position
1:04:28where you currently are
1:04:30um just finding those kind of HR
1:04:32fundamentals in in traditional jobs will
1:04:35will help you with your transferable
1:04:37skill set and you can absolutely go get
1:04:39your uh Sherm certification like I did
1:04:42or your PHR certification and those are
1:04:45out there and even better if you can get
1:04:47the business to pay for it hey
1:04:49um so that's another great opportunity
1:04:51to leverage a learning stipends that you
1:04:54might have at jobs where you already are
1:04:56foreign
1:05:04I'm not sure everybody's familiar with
1:05:06that yes
1:05:08um
1:05:09let's see uh I'm curious on for either
1:05:13of you of you know we have a lot of
1:05:15students interested in dealing with data
1:05:18or both of you probably have data that
1:05:21you handled to some degree
1:05:23um what type of background or skills do
1:05:27you need to in order to do that um
1:05:29certain platform experience or what what
1:05:31would you consider important
1:05:33yeah I just see I also saw a question
1:05:37about mixed methods research step
1:05:39researchers dabble in R so
1:05:42um I think that's that is a really great
1:05:44question I you know as part of SF
1:05:47State's master's program we do learn you
1:05:49know ah we have like all these
1:05:51intermediate stats courses
1:05:53um which which were a great added
1:05:55Advantage but if that's not like the
1:05:57path that you want to pursue there are
1:05:59open source courses so I think in my
1:06:02experience as a mixed methods researcher
1:06:04I I have gone into R sometimes but it's
1:06:07not it's not a core role responsibility
1:06:10what you would need to do is have a
1:06:12basic understanding of statistics of
1:06:15descriptive statistics of you know how
1:06:18to tell when something is statistically
1:06:20significant or not like it is it is um
1:06:23what we would call basic statistics you
1:06:26don't need to know any hard programming
1:06:27or how to use any softwares it's not
1:06:30critical but if you know it that just
1:06:32puts you in an advantage of like oh you
1:06:34have another skill set you're able to do
1:06:36or bring to to the table
1:06:40um I have used it
1:06:41um because I was familiar with
1:06:46everyone said do you you need to do this
1:06:48in R
1:06:49um like the least I have to do is to
1:06:52explain what a p-value is to to
1:06:54stakeholders or make sure that someone's
1:06:57not over reporting a sample size or
1:06:59we're we're talking to adequate people
1:07:01there's enough sample size reps so it's
1:07:03more about like ensuring the statistics
1:07:06support like the research method that
1:07:07you're doing that's that's my experience
1:07:09and and at least in the tech companies
1:07:12there are dedicated roles like data
1:07:14analysis or data analyst or research
1:07:16scientists or product analyst where your
1:07:19that is your Baseline requirement to be
1:07:21able to handle big data or to do robust
1:07:24data analysis which would then require
1:07:25you to do C plus plus or Java or R but
1:07:29not as as a qualitative or mixed method
1:07:33researcher
1:07:34yeah and on on that kind of adding to
1:07:37that just in my world she's just right
1:07:40that like we do have the data scientists
1:07:42and the data analysts who do all that
1:07:43stuff so hand it to them uh but in my
1:07:46role as an HR person like you have to
1:07:49know Microsoft Office whether it's Excel
1:07:52word or PowerPoint like you need to know
1:07:54how to create filters on data you better
1:07:56know your pivot tables
1:07:58um because my manager will ask me hey
1:08:00you know how many employees do we have
1:08:01on this date that were in this
1:08:02department blah blah and I have to
1:08:03filter the heck out of it uh to make
1:08:06sure that I give them the accurate data
1:08:08um so I encourage everyone like please
1:08:10you know get your Excel skills to
1:08:12intermediate you don't have to be a
1:08:13finance person I mean they oh they're
1:08:16they're spreadsheets that can't
1:08:17um but but yeah you you will need to be
1:08:19able to understand data and you also
1:08:21need to be able to audit it so like you
1:08:24should have the ability to look at so be
1:08:26like wait a minute what's that that's
1:08:27not right is that an error you know in
1:08:29our in our HR System
1:08:31um so having that Keen Eye to know when
1:08:33something is off is also really
1:08:35important when you are dealing with the
1:08:37data sets
1:08:41great thank you both for that I know
1:08:43that I get that question a lot during
1:08:45office hours so I hopefully that that
1:08:47helps some of our students and we're
1:08:49running pretty low on time
1:08:51um I just want to ask one more question
1:08:52to both of you and um
1:08:55and we'll start maybe with Isha on this
1:08:57one Isha where do you see your career
1:08:59Journey going next what can we expect
1:09:01from you
1:09:02ah I know that's a question I've been
1:09:04asking myself every day but
1:09:07um
1:09:08I I I'm gonna stay away from like
1:09:11talking about it from like promotions or
1:09:13job titles and and more about
1:09:16being a subject matter expert like I
1:09:19want to be able to get to a point where
1:09:21I can own the research or know the user
1:09:24base of a product area that I work on
1:09:28um pretty thoroughly where I can be the
1:09:30subject matter expertise where I'm known
1:09:32as the go-to person if you want to know
1:09:34about this go to Isha like that is
1:09:37something that I I want to work right
1:09:39now I'm more about like certain projects
1:09:41or hey if you want to know about that
1:09:43project go to Isha and I want to be more
1:09:45about like if you want to know about
1:09:46that product go to Isha so
1:09:48um and and building my sphere of
1:09:50influence right from from just me me and
1:09:54my media product team expanding that to
1:09:56like the entire research team extending
1:09:58that to all across Google and the ux
1:10:01communities is what I'm working towards
1:10:04foreign
1:10:06I'd love to have you back
1:10:08um whether you're that subject matter
1:10:11expert at that point or not uh and hear
1:10:13a little bit more about that journey to
1:10:15get there uh Jr what what's next for you
1:10:17what's the uh on the horizon for of your
1:10:21goal set yeah um I think for me you know
1:10:24the like long term I would love to be a
1:10:27director of HR one day I mean that is to
1:10:29me just leading a bigger team I've so
1:10:31far had the privilege of leading members
1:10:34uh you know I had a an undergrad when I
1:10:37was supervising the RAS in residential
1:10:39life I had a team of 26 but that was a
1:10:41little bit different in a professional
1:10:42setting the most I've had is a team of
1:10:44two
1:10:45um so I would love to really lead a
1:10:47broader team not only because I really
1:10:49enjoy kind of strategizing and ideating
1:10:52um and and you know making sure that
1:10:54teams feel supported but I also want to
1:10:57develop leaders and really give back and
1:10:59invest in their talents um because
1:11:01that's really inspiring to me and having
1:11:03the opportunity to grow a team and and
1:11:06see them execute is is something that I
1:11:08want the opportunity to be able to do so
1:11:10continuing in the path that I'm going on
1:11:12is where I'm going
1:11:16excellent thank you for sharing and
1:11:18thank you Isha as well for sharing
1:11:20tonight if you're in the audience that's
1:11:22all we have today so please say your uh
1:11:24thanks to our panelists for joining us
1:11:27tonight uh this was our last event for
1:11:30the fall semester we'll be back in the
1:11:32spring semester so if you're in the
1:11:33audience
1:11:34I'll be here in the spring uh come on
1:11:38back you're always welcome and again uh
1:11:40Isha JR this was a lot of fun for me to
1:11:43hear about to kind of see where you all
1:11:46are going and to learn a little bit more
1:11:47about your career path so thanks again
1:11:49for joining us thank you Dr Eshelman
1:11:52thank you everyone
1:11:53yeah thanks everyone this is really fun
1:11:56good luck thank you look at all that
1:11:58gratitude in the chat we have a lot
1:11:59sending your way so thank you again both
1:12:02of you and thank you to our captioner
1:12:03Diana who's uh doing the hard work
1:12:06behind the scenes appreciate it
1:12:08wonderful excellent good night everyone
1:12:10thanks everyone goodbye

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