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Alison and Suanne Braun - rape and assault survivor (audio only) www.conversationswithniki.co.ca — Transcript

by Niki Seberini · 12,914 words · 1,672 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:01welcome to radio today broadcasting in
0:03Johannesburg on 1485 a.m. and nationally
0:07on DStv audio Channel
0:10869 conversations with Nikki is brought
0:12to you by study apps. co. Za South
0:16Africa's leading education app for
0:20tablets and welcome to conversations
0:22with Nikki my name is Nikki seberini I'm
0:24so delighted to be with you and I'm
0:26really really um rather apologetic um
0:29because this voice of mine is not very
0:31easy to listen to believe me it's not
0:33easy to live with this kind of voice but
0:35we'll make it through the next hour
0:37thank you so much for tuning in I'd like
0:39to welcome our syndication partner
0:40listeners um and that is radio today in
0:43Johannesburg it's teing stereo 89.1 elos
0:47FM K FM CWI FM West Coast FM MC 90.3 FM
0:52in penberg Bay NIS FM wild Coast FM and
0:55Bay FM so delighted to have you
0:59listening to the show well you know it's
1:02it's been 20 years um since we we all
1:05read the horrific horrific story about a
1:08young girl by the name of Allison it was
1:10in December
1:121994 um she endured a horrific
1:14experience she was raped she was
1:16disbaled she had her throat slift she
1:19she slit she was left deserted to die on
1:21a rubbish dump outside Port Elizabeth
1:24and Against All Odds she survived and
1:27she didn't just survive she was
1:30Victorious because she stood up and she
1:32told her story time and time again to
1:34people not only in South Africa but
1:36around the world she has been a Leading
1:38Light and an example to overcoming um
1:42really really um huge obstacles in life
1:46and and it is 20 years um since that
1:49horrific event took place Allison wrote
1:51a book I have a life Allison's journey I
1:54know that she's written another book as
1:56well and we have women's month coming up
1:59and we need to be looking at women in
2:01South Africa we've focused on on women
2:04the polite of women many many times on
2:06the show and there's a fantastic women's
2:09Festival taking place at the auto
2:11General theater on the Square and part
2:15of that Festival will be the stage
2:17adaptation of I have life Allison's
2:20journey and uh this is when everyone
2:23will get to see and experience um
2:26Allison's story so we are so delighted
2:30really so honored to have not only
2:32Allison in the studio but to also have
2:34suanne Bourne in the studio who's going
2:36to be playing Allison in the production
2:38so ladies welcome thank you thank you
2:41very much I know you've been so busy
2:42suan with your with your rehearsing and
2:45and Alison you've been watching yes and
2:47and that must be quite a scary
2:49experience I think it was more scary for
2:51the actresses and actors sort of having
2:53me there and wondering how I was going
2:55to cope with it but it's it's you know
2:57to look at it and see how professionally
2:59they are doing it it and it's actually
3:01the fact that I'm that that I'm looking
3:02at it and feeling like it was what I
3:04went through is Accolade to them yeah
3:07suan to actually have Alison there
3:09watching oh well this is her story I
3:12mean this is what you do you're an
3:13actress yes uh but I must say I was
3:16saying yesterday uh both to Allison and
3:18and in another interview that this is a
3:20first for me because very often when you
3:23get to play such an
3:24incredible part cuz it is an
3:26extraordinary part but it's a true story
3:29so there's that really weird thing and
3:31for a long time in rehearsals we've been
3:33talking about she or her or Alison this
3:35and suddenly yesterday we had Alison
3:37sitting there so it's it's absolutely
3:40extraordinary but it has been really
3:42scary cuz suddenly you think oh did I do
3:45and I I felt very um protective of
3:49Allison this morning when we did it
3:50because we we kind of started at the the
3:52play is heavily based on the book um it
3:55jumps between the present tense and and
3:57the past tense and um so it sort of
4:00starts and then we're boom we're on the
4:01night of the attack and I felt poor
4:03Alison sitting in the audience and at
4:05the moment the only person in the in the
4:08auditorium uh I found that very
4:10difficult but again we're so lucky
4:13because what's been
4:14amazing um Ally you're so open about you
4:17know stuff and being able to ask so
4:19whether it's anything from a technical
4:21detail like yesterday I said are you
4:22left or right-handed because it was
4:24important for me to know I'm left-handed
4:25you're right-handed I was like great and
4:27I um so whether it's something small in
4:30detailed a technical thing or whether
4:31it's something much more graphic we've
4:34been able to really ascertain and work
4:36out what happened that night and the
4:39best praise we ever could have had this
4:41morning was we kind of got through a
4:43chunk and you just went it's awesome and
4:47everybody there were also I think you
4:49had a feeling of the nerves of what's it
4:50going to be like when you actually have
4:51an audience there but but I suppose to
4:54have me there for them is you know
4:57you're such a warm person you're a very
5:00open warm engaging person um and that's
5:03really what struck me the the the moment
5:05I met you so s that must help H asly
5:09hugely we're very similar to an and we
5:11loved you know when we met we realized
5:13and I think the Marilyn F re the
5:15director I think she was also quite
5:17relieved yesterday when she saw us
5:18together and she said you actually you
5:20know you could be sisters the way we
5:21talk and we so I think that that also
5:23was nice to to meet and just see me as
5:25me you know book they've stuck very much
5:28to the book and it's wonderful
5:30but I think just to get that real that
5:31that person in front of you because one
5:33of the things I said to Allison is that
5:34she's so um she's funny and and I think
5:37I'm quite funny so I was like Yay rather
5:39than trying to go away from that we've
5:41been able to embrace that that's great
5:43and even though we're dealing with a
5:44very very serious topic for me what
5:48interested me in the from the start um
5:50because I was saying to Alison yesterday
5:51I feel like I've been given this
5:53Incredible Gift by doing this play
5:55because 15 16 years ago when I read the
5:57book I I just I couldn't let go of it it
5:59stayed with me for months and months and
6:01months and months and I wanted to try
6:03and do a film and I wrote a long letter
6:04to Allison which I eventually didn't
6:06send for whatever reason incredible
6:09really longy through life and you know
6:11and I kind of then chickened out and
6:13then I went through the whole thing of
6:14like oh I'm not good enough and I'm got
6:15the money but it still stayed with me
6:17and I was saying yesterday as well I
6:19I've over the years I've told people
6:20this story from you know America to
6:23timbak to and everybody I've spoken to
6:26has said what this is a true story this
6:28is extraordinary and then last year
6:30Marilyn and I met uh in London and we
6:32had lunch together and it came up and I
6:34she just said to me she didn't she knew
6:36the story but hadn't read the book and I
6:39sat at this lunch saying and then this
6:40happened and then the book is amazing
6:41cuz then it's from this person's
6:42perspective
6:43and and she said to me let's do it let's
6:46do it as a play and I just went yes and
6:49everything has kind of fallen into place
6:51I feel so lucky and then also to have
6:54Allison's blessing her support and then
6:57to discover we really yesterday we said
6:59it's like meeting a sister I mean it is
7:01quite bizarre I do feel like I've known
7:02you all my life that is fantastic so and
7:05and for me you know Nikki I've been
7:06approached over the years by people
7:08who've not a play before I have to be
7:10honest but you know people who want to
7:11do an adaption to a movie or maybe they
7:14want to write a book and have my story
7:16in the book and some of the things have
7:18just not happened for whatever reason
7:20and I'm a great believer in at the right
7:22time with the right people it'll happen
7:23without you really having to try too
7:25hard and this has been like that because
7:27Marilyn contacted me it was actually on
7:29my birthday she knew it from reading the
7:30book that it was my birthday and she
7:31wrote to
7:34me exactly she's vulnerable but I have
7:37to be honest and I mean I'll say it in
7:38front of it was very much well okay I'll
7:40say yes but I mean nothing's going to
7:41happen from it because that's how it's
7:42been over the years these things don't
7:44always come to fruition and next thing I
7:46knew San's on radio and kind of saying
7:48yes she's going to play this part and
7:49what it means to her and it was just so
7:52wonderful to me to to know that that it
7:54it wasn't just a project and we get
7:56these random people it was something
7:58that was very close to for so long you
8:00know of course um that it's not and it
8:02is a true story I mean I know it's my
8:05story but I'm one of those people
8:06whenever I see a movie or something or a
8:08book that's based on a true story it's
8:09got a different you have a different
8:11respect for the story you think wow this
8:13really happened and even me sitting and
8:15watching the play I know it's my story
8:17but I watched it and I thought whoa it
8:19actually was quite hectic when I went
8:20through a little bit when it when it's
8:23me I just you just absorb it into your
8:25own life uh for me it was just part of
8:27what happened and I know it was a big
8:29thing
8:29but I've I've had to not make it into
8:31something that that dominates my life
8:33it's just it is part of what I went
8:35through so to have it um the accolades
8:38that everyone's giving me and to
8:39actually have it on stage and I think is
8:41going to be special for those people who
8:43come to see but special for me too it's
8:44a whole what's incredible is how
8:47relevant sorry sir how relevant it still
8:49is I mean I started off talking about
8:52the fact that it was 20 years ago you
8:54know it was just last year when we heard
8:56the terrible story about the young
8:58teenager n Boyce M who had the very
9:01similar experience similar injuries
9:03exactly and and she died from those
9:05injuries and and again the the the
9:08nation comes together and we just can't
9:10believe that these kind of crimes happen
9:12so it's so relevant um to have your
9:15story told again and again because it's
9:18a universal story as well so you're
9:20going to say something yeah Nikki just
9:21to add to that I think what's also
9:23important is that in a in a country
9:25where violence is so prevalent and
9:27particularly violence towards women and
9:29that is not just South Africa it's
9:31Universal what's happening in India I
9:33mean it's a
9:34pandemic but for me what makes Allison's
9:38story so formidable and incredible is
9:42your courage and your will to survive
9:45and the book I keep saying cuz so many
9:46people have said to me oh my goodness
9:47it's such a terrible story and so hectic
9:49how are you going to do it and I said
9:52the book is called I have life life this
9:56incredible woman this amazing woman
9:57who's sitting here um
10:00chose to fight in the most incredible
10:03way and the woman you are today and I
10:06kept saying that yesterday I mean
10:07Allison keeps going I'm not
10:08extraordinary I'm just ordinary I said
10:09no you are extraordinary and I think in
10:13a in a society as I said where this
10:15violence is prevalent to be able to show
10:17people something that yes it was
10:19horrific what happened we're not
10:20underplaying that we're not saying oh
10:22just glossing over it but it's how you
10:24choose to deal with stuff and I hope
10:27that people walk out feeling empowered
10:29uplifted men and women it's been very
10:31interesting working with the guys
10:32actually on the you over the actors cuz
10:35they were saying one of them yesterday
10:36said oh I was quite nervous about
10:38meeting you because you know you're so
10:40lovely the one guy who's playing one of
10:42the baddies um didn't want to like me
10:43too much cuz then he said it's going to
10:45be hard to to be horrible to me you know
10:48on stage which I get I think to play the
10:50the perpetrators is one of the harder
10:52things because they were dark very dark
10:55and to find that part so the the acting
10:57is a is a great challenge for you there
11:01were these horrific satanists but let's
11:03let's go back if you don't mind Alison
11:05because you know it is 20 years ago and
11:08for me it feels like yesterday when I
11:09read the story because I felt like as I
11:11read the articles and everything I felt
11:13like I was going through it with you
11:15I'll never forget that there was
11:17absolutely and and I'm sure so many
11:19people feel the same way but there are
11:20people listening who don't know your
11:21story of course and and I mean this is a
11:24story that you've told many times
11:25because you are a speaker you go out you
11:28motivate people you you get people to
11:31realize the power of choice and and mind
11:33you know changing one's mindset um so
11:37let's let's go through what what
11:38happened on on on that that that
11:40December evening okay well it was back
11:42in 1994 so yes almost 20 years um I was
11:46just pulling up outside my house I just
11:48dropped a friend off at home 27 years
11:51old and very um I don't want to say I
11:53was blaz but I was certainly never
11:55thought anything like that would happen
11:57on my street to me or to any anyone that
11:59I knew and so I I do admit that I was
12:01careless with my own Safety and Security
12:03I hadn't locked my car door and as I
12:05stopped my car and was distracted and
12:06getting some things from the passenger
12:08seat you know one of them just opened
12:09the door opened the door put a knife to
12:11my throat and said move over or I'll
12:13kill you and it's you know when I think
12:15of it now it was in that moment that I
12:16obviously had that choice of what am I
12:18going to do and but I've never learned
12:19how to what to do in a situation like
12:21that and you don't know you know you
12:22speak to people and they say they'll
12:23never know how you would react in a
12:25situation like that and it was probably
12:27from that moment that the decision was
12:29made inside myself to stay as calm as I
12:31could that somehow that just felt that I
12:33was controlling something and so that
12:35night I was I was pretty calm as they
12:37drove me around I I felt nervous and
12:39panicky and fearful inside but I tried
12:42outwardly to show them that I was you
12:44know I I was calm um he picked up an
12:47accomplice and they drove me to a bushy
12:49area outside this all happened in Port
12:51Elizabeth um a bushy area which is known
12:55as quite a dangerous area um it's an
12:57area that we always never went to at
12:58night night and they stopped in a
13:00clearing in the bush had they been
13:03talking to you while driving did you
13:05have any idea no not I I tried not I was
13:08I'm always being the kind of person who
13:10tries to look at the bright side of
13:11things and I think I was desperately
13:13trying to think that night okay they
13:14just cuz they were talking quite calmly
13:16they said to me listen we don't want to
13:17hurt you we just want to use your car
13:18for about an hour they said they had a
13:20TV problem they wanted to sort out
13:22someone had stolen that TV so I was part
13:25of my my logical brain that was thinking
13:27properly thought this is it it doesn't
13:29make logical sense but a lot of me were
13:31saying okay that's fine they're going to
13:32just take you home off going to be fine
13:34my blood boil just even thinking about
13:36it you know and and it was playing with
13:39me like because they were very they
13:40planned what they were going to do they
13:42had been out that night looking for a
13:43girl two girls who came forward later
13:45whose cars they tried to get into but
13:46they had locked their doors so they you
13:50know I was I was the victim that they
13:51had planned to find that n and they knew
13:53they were going to rape and kill their
13:54victim that's was they they had plans
13:56they didn't let me know that until we
13:57got out of the bush I think because I
13:59didn't want to wait in suspense um I
14:01remember just blurting out well now what
14:04and that's when they said well we want
14:05sex you know are you going to fight and
14:08that's a thing that I often speak about
14:09when in my talks because I think if only
14:10I'd learned a way of fighting or thought
14:12that it's something if I'd been taught
14:14at school I often thought you know even
14:15if in school they teach us how to handle
14:18situations you know that are
14:19uncomfortable even if it's just in a
14:21social circumstance but I had no clue I
14:23didn't know what to do I didn't I
14:24thought I'd actually make it worse you
14:26know if I fought them so I decided um
14:29to not resist while they raped me um for
14:32a long time afterwards I actually almost
14:34didn't let myself remember the rape
14:35because while I was I was it was pretty
14:38successful in fact and how you've done
14:39it on the in the play is brilliant thank
14:41you distancing myself from my body by so
14:45this this this Detachment just your body
14:48your mind kept on thinking other things
14:50I don't even know what I thought but I
14:51kept on saying to myself it's just your
14:52body Allison it's not you you know and
14:55it was disgusting and everything but it
14:56was like happening to my to my body
14:59um and that I I know in my later an
15:03analysis of the whole of of what
15:05happened helped me cope later with the
15:07rape because I think sometimes when you
15:09feel violated or you feel um that's a
15:13hard thing to take because then you feel
15:14that they took control of you but I
15:16never felt that I felt always that I had
15:17that that control cuz they talk about
15:20rap being this this act of power exactly
15:22now what I kept on reminding myself was
15:24yes they had power of your body but not
15:25not you stuff them you know it was
15:27really that kind of very feeling I
15:31interrupt one of the things that as an
15:33actress I said to to Ali yesterday like
15:35the Temptation is always to be
15:38like but you weren't and in a way I
15:41think the more we do it and the more
15:42we've kind of found that non rehearsals
15:44and working and and I'm so delighted
15:46that you are happy with that cuz I think
15:48but that also is evident that from the
15:50moment they got in the car even though
15:52at the time you didn't know what was
15:54ahead and you didn't think that they
15:55were going to be quite as hideous as
15:56they were you were already making
15:59conscious decisions and choices not to
16:02give them the satisfaction of your fear
16:05to be in control constantly making
16:08minute minute to- minute adjustments and
16:10decisions and I found that fascinating I
16:12just you know I mean I think my courage
16:15you say I was you know a career but I
16:18mean I just felt like an ordinary girl
16:19who had something extraordinary happened
16:20to her and I I know what I did was
16:23courageous but I think it came from that
16:25wanting to be in control I am someone
16:27you know and yes myself in a situation
16:30where how dare they they come in here
16:33and take over so I think I just grappled
16:35and try to hold on to whatever I could
16:36control which at that time was meide you
16:39think do you think that worked against
16:40you do you think the fact that you were
16:42so calm um and you know you that you
16:45that you you didn't resist do you think
16:47that that made them even more Angry you
16:50know I've play I've I did have that
16:53question and I and I blamed myself and
16:56did all of that because I thought if I'd
16:57fought you know they planned that night
16:59they planned that night they talked over
17:01it to go and find a girl to rape and
17:03kill I think if I had panicked and had
17:05fought them and anyway I had nowhere to
17:08run to you know if I had fought them I
17:11think it would have just been worse I
17:12think my I mean I could it have been
17:13worse I know but I think my level of P
17:16even when later on when they left me and
17:18I was so injured and I was trying to
17:20fight for my
17:21survival it was from a calm
17:24space say you had your control you had
17:27your power when I it it wasn't in a
17:30panic where I think a lot of energy that
17:32I had later for my survival I would have
17:34expended in trying to fight them and in
17:37so um it's odd I know it's odd I mean
17:39you know to be in a situation like that
17:41but and the police were quite surprised
17:43with how how but it was as I say my was
17:47something that I could do yeah you could
17:49control that and also I think in terms
17:50of them absolutely we now know since
17:53they've been arrested that they uh one
17:56of them had raped uh two other women
17:58they already raped a woman together a
17:59pregnant woman talked about hurting her
18:02but then exactly and then had thought
18:04they had killed you and so the next one
18:06they they got such a rush out of it that
18:08they were going to go and kill a woman
18:09and throw her over the farden bridge in
18:11Port Elizabeth so I don't think anything
18:13that I would have done differently would
18:15have made it made it and in fact I think
18:17what you did do is what absolutely is
18:20how you managed to to survive and and
18:23Triumph you were also so conscious
18:25because I mean we know tun cougar and
18:27France toy they were they they were
18:29using other names but every now and then
18:32they'd slip up and they'd use their
18:34correct name and you were aware of that
18:36because throughout the time you were you
18:38were watching you were trying to find
18:40ways of identifying so there was a huge
18:42Consciousness so even though you were
18:45detached you as you said you were very
18:47much in control what you could be in
18:49control don't you think that was that in
18:51a way was calming me cuz I felt busy you
18:53know I felt like okay you can do
18:54something here you can watch their hands
18:56I could watch them I still think I could
18:57have ident ify them the next day by
18:59their hands and their other features not
19:01even just by their faces cuz I was I was
19:03careful I was um you know watching their
19:05clothes their feet in the on the thing
19:07all that kind of thing so let's carry on
19:10so because that that's that's not all
19:12that it's not um they both raped me in
19:14the car quite frankly how they did it we
19:16don't know the the the the cast was
19:18actually asking me yesterday did it all
19:19happen really in the car because that it
19:22did and and again though I think that
19:23Detachment of just removing myself while
19:25it happened um but after that it started
19:28getting more scary they started
19:29discussing what they were going to do
19:30with me would I go to the police if they
19:32took me into town um they talked about
19:35leaving me out there in the bush to walk
19:36back into town on my own they asked me
19:38to undress for a second time um but it
19:40came without any warning I really
19:41thought I was going to be left there you
19:43know Alone um but it came without any
19:45warning Fran detoy uh from his position
19:47next to me in the driver's seat just
19:48rolled over me straddled me with his
19:50legs um put his hands to my throat and
19:53he started to squeeze and I think in
19:54that Split Second when I realized what
19:57that they were going to strangle me I
19:58just said please don't kill me and I I
20:02remember all he said was
20:04sorry went through your mind do you
20:06remember no it was in a split second I
20:08was out I was out um the next time I
20:11came to they already had stabbed me in
20:14the abdomen they dragged me from the car
20:16and they stabbed me about 35 36 times
20:18the doctors actually couldn't tell
20:19exactly but horrendously in my abdomen
20:21amazingly though again I mean I look at
20:24the Miracles because that to me was they
20:26didn't stab heart lungs things that
20:27would have kill
20:29stab me in what they said they wanted to
20:31ruin my female organs which was
20:33horrendous and yes later I worried that
20:35I would be able to have children but it
20:36wasn't um vital blood supply and that
20:38kind of thing you know for yeah um but
20:42they then they then cut my throat I
20:44think I moved once and Tian saw that I
20:46and he and he cut my throat for the
20:47first time and that's when France
20:48discontinued he said 16 times he cut
20:51myat you conscious when halfway through
20:53I woke up while he was cutting my throat
20:55which was horrific but I again I woke up
20:58up still from that place of no Panic so
21:01I woke up in a very I know it sounds
21:03weird but almost in a matter ofct way of
21:05oh you're
21:06dreaming obviously this is all quick and
21:09in a split second but I thought wake up
21:10this is horrible and as I woke up or
21:13made myself more conscious or whatever I
21:16remembered I remembered that i' been
21:18them in the car that they raped me that
21:20it strangled me and that horrifying I
21:21just thought this is really happening
21:23this is not a dream you know and in that
21:26same Split Second that instinct of
21:28survival or of of you know I don't know
21:30where it comes from but I just played
21:32dead I just thought just let them think
21:33that they've already killed you and the
21:36is what you thought yeah the breathing
21:37what was the most horrific thing I was
21:39trying to tell the C the horrific thing
21:40for me that whole night was the sound of
21:42my breathing because in fact what had
21:44happened which was I found such an
21:46amazing part of the story and and again
21:48an affirmation of the Miracles is that
21:51the fact that I woke up then is because
21:53of him cutting my throat I actually
21:55would have died of of with a
21:57strangulation with that they had crushed
21:58my wind pipe and I wasn't getting any
22:00oxygen and I was the doctor have said to
22:02me I would have died in fact of the loss
22:03of oxygen that's what would have killed
22:05me but because he cut my throat and he
22:08cut so many times he actually opened up
22:09my Airway by cutting that is
22:11unbelievable not extraordinary and is
22:13that not and they missed your vocal cord
22:15yeah but everything
22:16elseed Archer I mean that you you know
22:19just yeah to me I mean they say they
22:22were satanists and here we had evil
22:24trying very hard and with the very thing
22:27though that they thought was the worst
22:28they could do to me was the thing that
22:30was used to save my life and and the
22:32pain I mean I can just admit no pain
22:35that the way the body Cups
22:38perous has
22:40a special guiding angel light you know I
22:44was not I was meant to survive that
22:46night I know it because there were so
22:47many things bigger and smaller that were
22:50were there the full moon that where I
22:52could see I could go a bush it would
22:54have been pitch black if it hadn't been
22:56um but the facted no pain cuz if I had
22:57the pain that I had the next day when I
22:59could barely move a finger without pain
23:02so um no pain um no Panic really because
23:05of my calmness but an overwhelming sense
23:08of loss because I knew I was going to
23:10die you know they drove off they left me
23:12they drove off and I lay there and I
23:13just thought this is it you're going to
23:15die and that's when I but you still yes
23:19I didn't want to I didn't want to die
23:21and I but I and I but I I just knew no
23:24one was going to find me out there in
23:25that bush at that night I mean that that
23:27road no one goes along I was lying also
23:28deeper in the bush they wouldn't even if
23:30they driven past that they wouldn't have
23:31seen me and it was late wasn't it by now
23:33it's about after 12: yeah 1 2 in the
23:36morning and I actually took my finger
23:39because I'd been listening to them and I
23:40had their names it was something that I
23:41was sort of proud of and holding to
23:43myself I wrote their names in the sand
23:45next to me and I wrote I love Mom
23:46underneath cuz I thought of my mom and I
23:48thought you know oh I can't tell her you
23:51know and know so and I sort of squared
23:54it all off in the sand thinking okay
23:55I've done my business now and I don't
23:57remember the fear of death no no not at
23:59all not at all not at all aming I you
24:03know I feel so privileged in a way to
24:05have had this moment because I think so
24:06many of us live through our lives with a
24:09little bit of a fear of what's it going
24:11to be like when and to know now that
24:13when it comes it's lovely I mean I don't
24:16want to say it's lovely that we all
24:16should want to die but it's it's
24:18peaceful I had a moment when I left my
24:20body and it was a feeling of choice for
24:22me fortunately I had still the choice
24:24but it was definitely a feeling of no
24:26judgment if I if I was going to leave
24:28and and not go back into my body it was
24:30going to be okay if I went back it would
24:32be okay it was okay and I was telling
24:36the cast yesterday the only thing in
24:38that moment I knew the only thing that
24:41of my life that I had done or would
24:43matter would that be the love that I had
24:45given and received it was just something
24:46that you know and and it's I've always
24:48struggled to tell people this because
24:49you we don't have words to in our normal
24:53vocabulary to explain moments like that
24:55because it's not in our normal human
24:56existence but that sense of no time no
24:59space but just knowing that love was the
25:01one thing and I find it so interesting
25:04if you are in that space and you feeling
25:05that peace and that love that on some
25:08level you made the decision to come back
25:10to be here yes I I think I wanted it to
25:13ched it better to be honest I mean as
25:15much as I loved myself and I valued
25:17myself I knew I hadn't given my all you
25:20know I speak in my talks about believing
25:22in yourself and I hadn't done that
25:23before up until that moment I had i' I'd
25:26made excuses and I'd put off next year
25:29that kind of thing I was that you know
25:31and I think um part of the reason that I
25:33went that I came back is knowing no not
25:36yet no you want to do better let me tell
25:38you when I cut my finger and I see
25:40myself bleeding I can pass out I get
25:43nauseous I have to put my head in
25:44between my legs you have these hideous
25:47hideous injuries you have been
25:49practically disembed you've had your
25:51throat sliced 16 times so it's not even
25:55sitting properly on on on on your that's
25:58it which is difficult to act I want to
26:00tell you sorry to be technical we
26:02yesterday I was like
26:05is to have privileged though to be able
26:09to have Allison I mean I know we've said
26:10it but to go through these very dark
26:12dark places and to have that person and
26:15to as you say to make light of it to be
26:17able to love one well you have no idea
26:19and then also just as I said from
26:20anything
26:21Technical and sometimes gory technical
26:24to minute detail but again just you know
26:27as I said I feel like I've lived with
26:29this book for 15 years and certainly in
26:31the last 6 months I've reread it and
26:32read it and read it and reread it and
26:35somehow as much as your story jumps off
26:37the page having you tell the story and
26:40say things is just so incredible because
26:42you you get the full 3d you know before
26:46it's like a hologram and now suddenly
26:47it's it's there it's a real 3D living
26:50breathing and of course it's a real
26:52person it's a real person Allison is a
26:54real person um and Marilyn and I had a a
26:58lovely chat sort of earlier on in in the
27:00production where I phoned her one night
27:01and I went are we being crazy we've
27:04picked a play where effectively the lead
27:06actress spins half the play she can't
27:09talk we don't have a car on stage how
27:12are we going to do this we she can't
27:14speak she's
27:16injured B I I I don't know I'm sadly and
27:19she went it'll be fine we will find away
27:22and she said just keep thinking of how
27:23the book made you feel and how you want
27:25to tell it you know tell the story and
27:28yesterday we talked a lot about this out
27:29of Body Experience because we have we
27:31we've chosen to do some stuff in the
27:32play symbolically and kind of leap
27:35between what is real and then symbolic
27:37and obviously that as you said it's it's
27:40not an everyday occurrence um but we all
27:44felt so strongly as well and I said what
27:46a wonderful thing that a in the midst of
27:48all
27:49this atrocity that you're facing and
27:51going through the comfort that death is
27:54not awful that's a great thing for us to
27:57know every day but that again that word
28:00choice you know and boom you come back
28:04and take the down cuz I'm not allowed to
28:08swear on the
28:09radio but Nikki what you were saying
28:11earlier on about cutting your finger
28:13please know I'm like that too it's a the
28:15weirdest thing my children know when
28:17they hurt themselves mommy's not much
28:18use because I just was you know get
28:21their plasters and everything in a
28:22little little cupboard somewhere and
28:23they know what to do because yes so how
28:25are you walking exactly so you think to
28:28yourself I mean I I tell the story and
28:30I'm very conscious of what it goes
28:31through my audience and you know what
28:33they feel like because I would be in an
28:35audience listening to the story wanting
28:36to pass out um so so it's very to me
28:40that's again an indication of what we as
28:43human beings and it's not just me I mean
28:44thank you for saying that I'm
28:45extraordinary but my message always to
28:47people is it's an ordinary person who
28:49had this happen turn through choice that
28:51she made she you know survived now why
28:54is it that we any of us can't make those
28:56choices in our lives whatever that is is
28:57that we're
28:58facing and so I I just feel you know
29:01that even though that might have been my
29:03natural thing at the moment I had no
29:04choice but to survive you know you can
29:07look and say oh I couldn't have survived
29:08it but you have the choice to say that
29:10when you're in the situation you be as
29:11amazed with what you can do so is that
29:12the out of body experience I think so
29:14and that that that that that's that
29:15fight to survive that most of us never
29:17get the chance of actually feeling but
29:18we all have okay we're going to take a
29:21break we're going to continue with the
29:22story here about the play as well so
29:24stay where you are we'll be back in just
29:26a moment
29:28hi my name is SVA princer and I'm the H
29:32of it integration at pridwin Preparatory
29:35School in Melrose we started using study
29:37apps about 6 months ago and have seen
29:39astonishing results we were quite amazed
29:42to see how quickly the kids have been
29:43able to use study apps and the benefits
29:46it has shown with regards to reinforcing
29:49what they've already learned inside the
29:51class I would highly recommend study
29:54apps for any school study appsc o.
29:59Za this is radio today broadcasting in
30:02Johannesburg on 1485 a.m. and nationally
30:06on DStv audio Channel
30:10869 well if you have just tuned in
30:12welcome welcome conversations with Nikki
30:14at is and I'm Nikki seberini delighted
30:16to be with you I'd like to welcome our
30:18syndication partner listeners it's radio
30:20today in Johannesburg we've got timing
30:23stereo 89.1 Elders FM K FM kwi FM West
30:27Coast FM MC 90.3 FM in platenburg Bay
30:31NIS FM wild Coast FM and Bay FM and I
30:34must apologize for my terrible sounding
30:37voice I'm I am really trying to get
30:39through my laryngitis and hopefully next
30:41week I'll be back to normal but the
30:43wonderful thing is I don't need to do a
30:44lot of talking at all in today's show
30:46because I've got two fabulous guests who
30:49are sharing such a an a phenomenal story
30:52it's a story that connects with human
30:55beings it's it's something that we dread
30:57it's something that we actually don't
30:58want to talk about it's it it it it
31:01shines a light on our greatest fear
31:04being attacked being raped being
31:07mutilated being left to die being so
31:10close to death you know these are things
31:13that living in a very violent country
31:15that we do these are things that we we
31:17it's there it sits there but we don't
31:20really want to talk about it and it's so
31:22wonderful to be able to listen to
31:25Allison's story um and to to be able to
31:28find the lightness and to hear this
31:30extraordinary woman tell her story from
31:33such a place of life and light and joy
31:37and Vibrance and that in itself Alison
31:39just having you next to me there's
31:42no there's no victim sitting here
31:45there's only this incredible incredible
31:47human being as you say a normal ordinary
31:50woman who's had this extraordinary
31:51experience and come out of it the other
31:53side that's why it's such an important
31:55conversation and then of course with
31:57August being women's month there's a
31:59wonderful women's Festival taking place
32:01so to to Mark the 20 years there is a
32:04stage adaptation of based a lot on
32:06Allison's book that she wrote I have
32:08life Allison's Journey now years ago we
32:11all watched as the lovely suan Brun took
32:15us through from country to Country
32:17exotic I thought that is the best job
32:18ever in Bon voage I mean that was the
32:20best job it was a good job I have to say
32:22and oh we loved we loved having the
32:24gorgeous redhe head suan born on on on
32:27our TV sets and then of course she left
32:29us for for the United States and now
32:31she's living in the UK but something has
32:33brought her back to South Africa which
32:35we're so pleased about and that is
32:37playing the part of Allison um in this
32:39adaptation and we're really just talking
32:41about the experience Allison's
32:43experience and the experience of of
32:45playing Allison s and you were saying I
32:47mean to be able to have this contact is
32:49just incredible yeah I mean on a on a
32:52sort of as an as an actor because I've
32:54been an actress my whole life um
32:57one Waits and waits and and you begin to
33:00realize the older you get that great
33:02scripts are very few and far between um
33:05you know it's not for nothing that
33:06Shakespeare gets done again and again
33:08and again and again because the stories
33:09are so fantastic and the characters are
33:11so brilliantly fleshed out so purely
33:14with my acting hat on to to look at a
33:17story and go this is a remarkable story
33:20where we see one character one person's
33:23Arc um this terrible adversity the
33:27courage and then the Triumph and then
33:30the kind of butterfly the release of
33:32this life and that in itself purely on a
33:36practical you know looking at a meaty
33:38role going yes oh this is amazing then
33:41on top of that you layer that with the
33:42fact that it's a true story and that we
33:45are lucky enough not only to have
33:47Allison's blessing but to have her here
33:50I cannot tell you what it's been like I
33:52don't have I'm running out of
33:53superlatives because I've never had an
33:56experience like like this um and I feel
34:00so so strongly about this piece and
34:02about this play and in fact I was saying
34:03to my parents yesterday I said this is
34:06Virgin Territory for me I'm an actress
34:08I'm very used to going it's all about me
34:11I want and for the first time in my life
34:13I'm going it's all about the peace the
34:16story the story um I I so hope that
34:21audiences flock to this because I feel
34:23this peace deserves a massive AUD
34:26audience because let me tell you Allison
34:29you don't only have life you radiate it
34:32from every Poe and it's something that
34:35is evident in the book but 10 times more
34:38when you meet you you know 100 times
34:40more and I'm so delighted that you're
34:42going to be here for the opening Allison
34:43will be there on the 9th which is
34:44fantastic and and previe yeah the whole
34:47of the first week um which will also be
34:49interesting for you I think because you
34:50can see it grow between where it is
34:52right now to then um but I there was no
34:57ways I was going to miss this
34:59opportunity and uh I was saying also to
35:02Allison yesterday you know very often as
35:03an actress you get given people say oh
35:05let's do this or let's work together you
35:07said over the years people have wanted
35:08to do your story and then for whatever
35:09reason whether it's Financial or other
35:12commitments and it's difficult as actors
35:13because who sometimes have no work and
35:15then of course SS law three jobs come
35:17along at once and you can't do any of
35:19them or you can only do one um and I
35:22committed to this I came out to see my
35:24parents in May and Marilyn called me and
35:26said come up to jobber let's do
35:28auditions and at this stage we didn't
35:30have a venue we hadn't really we'd
35:33spoken to Allison but only kind of via
35:35email it was all a bit tentative and I
35:37just thought just do it put the money
35:40down book The FL just go and I feel it's
35:43been one of those remarkable experiences
35:45that leap and the net will appear
35:47because every time Marilyn and I have
35:49been like thelman Louise and taken our
35:51hands and jumped over that metaphorical
35:53Cliff the hands have been there to
35:55support us you know money
35:57like the hands of your story exactly
35:59exactly that help
36:01me absolutely and the parallels have
36:03been extraordinary too I mean on a on a
36:05personal level um I haven't met
36:08Allison's mom but her mom and mine have
36:10many many uh similar qualities and
36:14things which is also helpful because
36:15you're
36:16coming uh to a story from an actress
36:19point of view and as a person with an an
36:22understanding an innate understanding
36:23already you know it's not like playing I
36:26mean I had to play a Nazi prostitute
36:29which was as far removed from what I am
36:31um but of course that's the great thing
36:33of being an actress is that you can dive
36:34in and out of things but I have as I
36:37said for years the story has been here
36:40and I I feel like I've been given a
36:43second chance so I am willing to throw
36:46everything I have at this piece and I
36:48just truly hope I know theat is
36:51expensive I know it's difficult I know
36:52it's a pain it's winter it's cold and
36:55people don't their but this is yes but I
36:59truly feel people will leave going I'm
37:01so glad I came so let me ask you because
37:04you've said I mean you're an actress and
37:06you have to play many different roles I
37:08started off and I said it's our greatest
37:11fear the story of Alison we all walk
37:14through life and we have these fears
37:15that we don't really want to face and
37:17this this is a fear and you're facing
37:19this fear I mean you're becoming Allison
37:22you having to go there and even though
37:23you're acting it there's the rape
37:25there's the mutilation
37:27everything that goes with it so you
37:28you've got to go to that very very dark
37:30place that must be very difficult for
37:33you challenging it is difficult and it
37:35is challenging um we've uh we're
37:39incredibly blessed we've got a fantastic
37:41company we're a small company five
37:43people we everybody has multiple roles
37:46which also helps so the guys playing the
37:48attackers also have two decent
37:51characters in the play so they're not
37:53just um and we said from the start which
37:57is why I'm so glad I was here for
37:58auditions cuz I said to Marilyn for me
38:00it's going to depend largely on the
38:02people we get because if you get two
38:04people or one person who kind of goes I
38:06don't want to work like that this isn't
38:07going to work we have to hold each other
38:10all the time um and we've been I've been
38:13very lucky and that everyone's been
38:15incredibly sensitive it's been done with
38:17great care we've stopped and started for
38:20a long time when we talked about how to
38:22do the rape and the attack cuz lots of
38:24people said to me you know if it's
38:25realistic I don't want to come
38:27uh and I and I completely respect that
38:29so we had this challenge of we didn't
38:31want to gloss over it and go well then
38:33you know because somebody said me why
38:35don't you just have it all happening off
38:36stage and I was like well that's kind
38:38sort of defeats the purpose of a play
38:40you know um and I think we have found a
38:43way to do it and it's it's still
38:45chilling it's
38:47still difficult to watch I think but as
38:50in what happened in reality it's
38:52relatively brief in relation to the rest
38:54of the story and the journey but yeah
38:56it's been difficult and I've had moments
38:59where you know I sometimes have to stop
39:03and then the boys will come and hug me
39:04and and even this morning I left and I
39:06said I was like this you know it sh it
39:09your body suddenly goes you're in a
39:11completely different uh thing but as an
39:15actress I keep going I'm never going to
39:16get a chance like this again really got
39:18to dig deep in this part and and I said
39:20you sense you must be exhaustive because
39:21it's a not only are you acting all the
39:25time and and working at that and
39:26remembering your lines you've got to
39:28it's an emotional space that you've got
39:30to be in all the time even when you're
39:31doing the you know all different parts
39:33you you're in the car I thought I
39:35actually thought for me that part was is
39:37very extended because it was it felt
39:40like this endless driving around and the
39:42fear inside that you're trying to
39:44control and and suan does it brilliantly
39:46because there's a lot of voice over of
39:47what I was thinking in my head but then
39:49they're there and oh it's I found it
39:51very I mean it was it was scary for me
39:53to see but they've done it so well I'm
39:55so proud of them
39:58really you see that's the thing about
40:00radios you can't see what's happening in
40:02the studio but every 5 minutes they lean
40:04over and give one another a little hug
40:06squeezing of the KN there's definitely a
40:08love affair Happening Here soen We
40:11because the story is much bigger um and
40:13and I mean s you're talking about this
40:15much bigger story um and and I do want
40:18to go back because I don't want people
40:20just to be left with that thought of you
40:22being raped and dismil and lying there
40:24there's there's a there's a wonderful
40:26wonderful continuation of that story you
40:28know and Nikki I think that's why I
40:29still continue to share my story cuz I
40:32I've always said to people I don't
40:33really want to be someone who has to go
40:35and just tell gory details however as
40:37you were saying now s and I almost
40:38interrupted you because we can't not
40:41show it because it is the Miracles are
40:44only that much more amazing because it
40:47was so horrendous you know um but I
40:50share my story because of the the the
40:53the the choices that I made that are
40:55inspirational I I believe I hope to
40:57other people it isn't that it doesn't
40:59matter what it is that happens to us but
41:01it's how we choose to handle it that yes
41:04I could have chosen to lie there and die
41:06and no one would have judged me for it
41:08to be honest I mean you know no but it
41:10wasn't that's not what I wanted it
41:11wasn't enough so so I suppose those are
41:13the things where to me what happened to
41:15me is was something random someone
41:17something that they chose they
41:18controlled it they did it we all have
41:21bad things happening but I suppose my
41:23lesson that I try and share to people
41:26and I try and is that whatever it is
41:28that happens to you you control and
41:29that's what I want so much for people to
41:31walk out of the the play
41:33with it's something that I actually want
41:35to want to say and I will say it to you
41:36now on radio but I'll say to the cast
41:38later that to me this happened to
41:41me it happened to me and I share it but
41:45it's almost like it's not my story I
41:47have to give it over to whoever needs to
41:50hear it in a way yeah um so the same
41:53thing now you guys have got it as a
41:55vehicle to use to to reach through
41:57whichever audience comes know I think
41:59the the thing also the word miracle is a
42:01word um poor Nikki is just we'll talk
42:04amongst ourselves listeners while poor
42:06Nikki is having a very very bad attack
42:08of laryngitis and coughing never mind
42:10you're in safe hands I've done this
42:13before um but what I was going to say is
42:16I think this the word miracle is not
42:17something we hear very often anymore and
42:20I truly whatever your faith whether you
42:23are agnostic or deeply religious the the
42:27Miracles that night were absolutely
42:31undeniable and they were there and you
42:34know here's a little spoiler alert but
42:36the play opens with you talking about
42:38miracles and it ends with talking about
42:41miracles so if people are not uplifted
42:44then we haven't done our job properly
42:46because you can't help but be uplifted
42:50by by every single miracle that was in
42:52place that night and then your choice to
42:54do with them what you did with each one
42:57and then with you you know the fact that
42:59tition this guy who had limited
43:02Veterinary surgery knowledge or
43:04veterinary science St managed a stopped
43:08and took one look at you and went in his
43:11heart was
43:12like but never showed that knew
43:15instinctively somehow knew just to go
43:17it's going to be fine you're going to be
43:19fine feel fine and made you feel for 2
43:21hours he said for 2 hours wasn't they
43:23someone who came beforehand and drove
43:25past yeah I mean that's actually
43:27frightening yeah what happened I mean
43:29after I decided that I wasn't going to
43:30give up that I was going to at least try
43:31and get to the nearby road so that
43:33someone could find me I craw the nearby
43:34Road 90 M
43:36away not you know crawled with one hand
43:39holding my tummy with the other stood up
43:41held had to hold my head on him and it's
43:42just yeah the but again there it was
43:45that I I believe that same sense of
43:49unreal it was Unreal it unreal calm that
43:53just do what you have to do very
43:55unemotional in a way um but just because
43:59that was the Practical thing to do just
44:01to hold your head on holding your head I
44:03know when now I think of it I think it's
44:05extraordinary but when I did it it
44:07wasn't oh can I do this you just do you
44:09know um and then getting to the road and
44:12lying in the middle of the road thinking
44:13well at least someone who ever comes
44:15will see me and then yes a car came and
44:17it stopped and the lights were on me and
44:19I was waving my arm to show them that
44:22I'm alive and no one got out of that
44:23first car and it was a panicked but I
44:27you know people have said oh don't you
44:28want to find them and who are those
44:29people who didn't help but you know
44:30maybe they were afraid you have to ask
44:32yourself what would you have done there
44:33was so many stories in those days of and
44:35it's probably still today of hijackings
44:37and pretending to have a victim and then
44:39they jump out of the Bush for the one I
44:41think that had just start put window
44:43down and Shout out are you okay nothing
44:45I in fact I in fact thought it's them
44:48they come back to check and that was I
44:50mean it was actually almost a relief for
44:51that reason that that the C just drove
44:53cuz it wasn't them um but some people
44:55have say said to me it's because the
44:57miracle that I needed the next miracle
44:58was Tana the next car he wasn't that car
45:00also I think that you know we we as a
45:02cast we were discussing that cuz the
45:03initially the boys were like how could
45:04people do that how could they not go and
45:06I said you have to remember it was 20
45:07years ago a b so it's pre- cell phone or
45:10they just they just come out those big
45:12old brick ones with the you know hang on
45:14let me just unfold my large phone um and
45:17it was by now half 2 in the morning on a
45:21very deserted Road and you were covered
45:26in Blood and filth and soot and glass
45:29and all sorts of things so what they saw
45:31was you know in our heads you kind of
45:32think oh there's a naked woman in
45:34distress of course I I would we know who
45:37I was even the hospital even the doctors
45:39said they thought I was a bush dweller
45:41when I came in say I was I mean I I was
45:43just covered in soot and and the dirt
45:46and leaves so it looked like I was
45:48someone who lived in the bush you know
45:50so so but when TI drove past well he had
45:54friends with him they stopped they Meed
45:55medely got out there was Panic stations
45:57people were screaming it was chaos for
45:59me but I was so relieved cuz as you say
46:01he was just focused on me he knelt down
46:04and when he realized I couldn't speak he
46:06took my hand and he said to you I'm
46:07going to ask you questions squeeze my
46:09hand once for yes and twice for no and
46:10he became this Lifeline for me that I
46:12just didn't let go of his hand until I
46:13got to the hospital actually but for him
46:16there was this whole journey of do I
46:18know what to do told his friends to take
46:19their shirts off he told his one friend
46:21cuz with you talk about the cell phones
46:23but they didn't even get coms where we
46:24were so someone had a phone but they had
46:27to drive away to phone and then that guy
46:29would come back and say I've phoned the
46:30ambulance they phoned about three or
46:32four times yeah no one came for two
46:34hours 2 hours you lay there does anybody
46:36know why they didn't you know they tried
46:39to do a little bit of Investigation one
46:41of the radio stations actually at the
46:42time um there was stories at the time
46:44that a lot of um ambulance drivers were
46:46using their ambulances as taxis in their
46:49quiet you know and sort of getting some
46:51income and I think they didn't want to
46:54admit to it but they were busy they just
46:56didn't have an ambulance to send yeah
46:57hard to get one well there we go so for
46:59two hours you lay there and of course
47:01people say well why didn't he just get
47:02you in the car and take you but of
47:04course when you've got someone stable
47:06and I've stopped bleeding and I'm Karma
47:08and whatever you think well the
47:09ambulance is on their way it's rather
47:11keep her here and so before you know it
47:13and you were encouraged by having all of
47:15these people there helping you ton I was
47:17encouraged by ton other people were yeah
47:18I didn't even you know even shame when I
47:20mean I know they were all doing their
47:22bit but the next day when some of them
47:23came to hospital one of the guys was
47:24quite a big like wrastler type boxer and
47:28when he walked in you know one of my
47:30friends wanted to stop him I who are you
47:31they thought he might be one of the
47:32perpetrators but he was like and I
47:34didn't even I didn't actually recognize
47:36him I wasn't part of my tion it was just
47:38tion and me it was this amazing um bond
47:41that we had and he spoke cute things to
47:44me he was saying things like you got
47:45beautiful eyes keep them open look at me
47:47um I'll take you on a date when you have
47:49you got a
47:50boyfriend cute little things that always
47:52funny you know yeah sorry to I just said
47:55one of the things we loved we we've been
47:56very lucky to to get hold of some
47:58footage from a a card blanch interview
48:00that Allison did closer to the time um
48:02Al recently after the event and there's
48:04a fantastic bit with ton which I loved
48:06which we've now added to the script
48:08where he's doing this thing and he he
48:09said you know and I and cuz he's off
48:19for just my
48:22luck and I said you know we have to have
48:25things like it because what's
48:27astonishing about human life I think
48:30also is that we have you know I've been
48:34to to funerals and in the midst of this
48:36unbelievable sadness somebody will say
48:39do you remember when she or he said such
48:40and such and of course everybody will
48:42burst out laughing and in the midst of
48:44this terrible sadness or pain or chaos
48:47there's always that light but that's how
48:49we survive exactly we are human we are
48:52it comes back to that I have life in the
48:55midst of this there's this you know shed
48:58light on those dark areas also why why
49:01when you when you maybe when you've met
49:02me you've almost been released from CU I
49:05mean suan was saying when they first
49:06started doing their rehearsals everyone
49:07was very serious it was all very measur
49:10all very and and and sort of like in in
49:11reverence to the story but I'm not like
49:14that one point the director went listen
49:17guys I know it's really difficult but
49:18I'm actually falling asleep because
49:20you're all taking on this a bit like
49:24church it's a serious subject but at the
49:27same time I want people to connect with
49:29the fact that it was it it was their
49:31sister that it happened to it was their
49:33daughter it was them it's the ordinary
49:35person next door I'm not a maybe yes
49:37they've read about my read my book now
49:39they've seen me on a magazine but that
49:40doesn't make me anything different from
49:43what I am with my family I'm just Ellie
49:45you know I'm now just a mom I'm just a
49:47so so I I believe that's why you said in
49:50the beginning that the story still has
49:53you know relevance today and it does
49:54because it's a it's a true life story
49:57and although it is a story that's
49:58horrific and it's about a rape and and
50:00near death we all have our stuff
50:03whatever it might be and I I would hope
50:05that people who come to see it can find
50:07some inspiration for their own stuff
50:09whatever you know their challenges are
50:11right and they can look at it and say
50:12well wow you know if she can do it then
50:14why can't I and and because I think we
50:16all especially as South Africans I think
50:18we have incredible resilience to to
50:21overcome stuff and that we actually need
50:23to be proud of we need to look at
50:24ourselves and say hey look what we can
50:26achieve look at what we have inside us
50:29um listen do you pass all I'm sure you
50:31do all these
50:33very strong powerful messages onto your
50:36sons yes well I hope so you know that's
50:39how I are you a mission on a mission she
50:41is and succeeding yeah well I mean
50:44that's how when I looked at it when I
50:46started doing my talks and having to
50:47tell people I realized it was from my
50:49own upbringing my mom had this mission
50:52to make my brother and I believe that
50:54there was greatness in IDE Us in
50:56whatever way she could and whatever way
50:57that would manifest for us and to the
50:59point that I didn't do well in sport or
51:01in school but she was there supporting
51:03me cuz it was Alison doing it her
51:04special way and so I had this very
51:05strong sense of my own self-worth self
51:07value which I I want my boys to have I
51:10want them to to love themselves I mean
51:13even now we do it in practical ways like
51:15when they put on the safety belt it's
51:16not because Mommy said so it's because
51:18you are like a precious thing that if
51:21something had to happen to you nothing
51:22would ever replace you so even when
51:24you're in a friend's car you it not
51:25because it's the law or because as I
51:28said Mommy said it's because I am
51:29special I need to protect me and so I'm
51:32hoping that when they move through life
51:35they will have that inside themselves to
51:38make choices that are going to um you
51:41know High we make choices out of that
51:43space of I'm worthy of this or not of
51:45that or you know it's amazing that you
51:48didn't um you know give birth to these
51:50two boys and be in a state of fear
51:53because I think it's easy to then be
51:54because you have you faced it I mean you
51:56you've looked that that darkness in the
51:58eyes and I
52:00wonder you like would I would I just my
52:03boys do x y and Zed having come from
52:05where you've come from I I must be
52:07honest when I was pregnant I was asked
52:08that often and when I did my talks
52:09people would say to me well are you
52:11going to be a paranoid mother are you
52:12going to be overprotective and I said I
52:13don't know I I didn't know and I'm so I
52:16was so relieved to find that I was
52:18almost the
52:19opposite and I know this sounds but I
52:21almost like when they face their little
52:23challenges I'm more like want to sit
52:25down and say right now what did you do
52:27and I love the fact that it shows and
52:29they can see the strength that they had
52:31and and to say to them you know when you
52:33had that and that friend did that and
52:34you didn't really like that and you
52:35reacted that way how did it make you
52:37feel and he said yeah it made me feel
52:38good or and I like that I don't I I
52:41realize I think how much the challenges
52:44of my in my own life have grown me and
52:47made me that butterfly that you speak
52:49about so I want them to have that same
52:51feeling of growth and and we highlight
52:53it we do we speak about it so when are
52:55you going to tell them your story I have
52:57already um you know it was something I
52:59decided that um how old are your boys
53:01now my my Daniel is 10 and Matthew 7 and
53:04I I decided long before I think it's
53:07easier when when you've decided ahead of
53:09time what you're going to do so it's not
53:10a shock when it happens I knew I didn't
53:12want to lie to them and I knew I didn't
53:14want someone else to tell them and I
53:15also knew that I did want to bring the
53:17stuff that I'd learned into my parenting
53:19so I kind of wanted them to know why it
53:20was so important and so when Daniel at
53:23about age five looked at my on my neck
53:25and said Mommy what happened here I
53:27didn't lie and say I was born with it
53:29thought was just I said no mommy was
53:31hurt but luckily that was all he needed
53:32at the time um and then a few weeks
53:34later when he said you know how did you
53:36get hurt it's amazing how we you do know
53:39what your children can cope with at a
53:40time so at that time I was able to say
53:41to him listen there two bad bad people
53:43had Mommy and they attack Mommy and they
53:45cut my throat but you know the police
53:46got them and you sort of BR you know
53:48brush over the the detail they didn't
53:50understand about sex perhaps so the rap
53:52wasn't mentioned and so you tell them
53:54what they need and they they are
53:56incredibly resilient And when they see
53:58you there it's like oh okay mommy you
54:00were you you were brave and you and and
54:02the police I would have been with the
54:02police yeah that's good are they in jail
54:04and and so um you know and they
54:08obviously because it's a story that
54:09people do know um they would hear it
54:12from other other sources and so I they
54:14they're quite comfortable with knowing
54:16what happened to me they know I go off
54:17and do talks they know what I talk about
54:19and if they've got questions they ask me
54:21did it create a fear in
54:24them
54:25no not so much that but it's more my my
54:28you know children are so different and
54:30my younger one um is seven I always say
54:33seven going on 17 because he's he's
54:35Brave you know and he'll do but the but
54:37Daniel the Elder one will um is fearful
54:39sometimes of crime and stuff but at the
54:41same time we we talk about it because I
54:42do think I was a little bit to blaz and
54:45I think that an awareness of your own
54:47safety so we do know if something
54:49happened what we will do and what to do
54:51in certain situations um they both do
54:54kickboxing so the the moment they just
54:55thought see it has an opportunity to use
54:56their kickboxing if anything had to
54:58happen um but yeah I think it's I prefer
55:01to be more open and talking and that
55:02than it's be something that is a is a is
55:05something that comes up later and then
55:06I'll maybe wonder why I haven't told
55:08them yeah I think it's very interesting
55:11okay when when you told them and how
55:13they responded cuz I think sometimes we
55:15underestimate children we think we have
55:18to protect them for a lot longer is this
55:20where they have time to process as you
55:22say they then decide and you would read
55:25from them how much they are ready to
55:26hear
55:28I'm I'm also a great advocate of of
55:30therapy for myself and for them I mean
55:32you know I'm now a single mom I've been
55:34through a divorce and even during during
55:36that there was a time when they had to
55:37go and see a psychologist which was um I
55:40think wonderful that they know that
55:41there's a space that's not you know at
55:44home with someone else who can who can
55:45sort out some of the feelings and
55:46because I think we we you know we
55:48mustn't also expect them just to handle
55:50everything without fears that might crop
55:52up and I'd rather have that open for
55:55myself I know and and I I would leave it
55:56for anyone if they're going to be issues
55:58that are out of the normal experience
56:00that we go through to to have help with
56:02that so that it's not something that I
56:04would hate to think that any fear of
56:06because of what had happened to me was
56:08something that they later on in last you
56:09know brought up issues now I mean when
56:11you went to court and you you faced your
56:13attackers um that must have been that
56:17must been a very scary time mix mixed
56:20emotions it was scary very unexpectedly
56:23to be honest I thought I was going to
56:25fine but the fear that just was like a
56:27wash of water over me as I saw them but
56:29it was also triumphant moment because
56:31I'm made sure it was going to be it was
56:32I you know I was going to be strong I
56:35was going to not be um you want to hurt
56:37them physically no no not at all you
56:38know I do me I'm afraid that the sue the
56:43theatrical wants to very much okay no it
56:46was it was um you know and I know this
56:50sounds weird but I almost felt sorry for
56:52them as human beings to have to to
56:55become to be able to be the kind of
56:57people who would do that I didn't
56:59understand it I couldn't
57:01grasp nothing in me could grasp how two
57:04people could do that without any
57:05provocation without anything to a
57:06complete stranger and the court case was
57:09actually more a um it was more a fact
57:13finding information time for me of
57:14trying to see them and hear their story
57:16and yeah and a lot of and a lot of what
57:18they said was was just information in
57:20fact I would get quite surprised when my
57:22name was mentioned in court because it
57:24was like watching them a cour yeah and I
57:27think that's how by distancing myself
57:28like that was a way also that I got
57:30through it you know have you forgiven
57:32them yes but for my sake I I think and I
57:36do believe that the fact that they're in
57:37jail has helped me get to that that
57:39space um and I I when I say for my sake
57:43because I don't want to feel angry I
57:45don't want to have that for me I don't
57:47want to have hatred or or any negative
57:49feeling that's not how I choose to live
57:51so as I say I do believe that the fact
57:54that there in jail and and paying for
57:56what they've done in a way and they are
57:58you know I think to me they have to come
58:00to their own sense of of understanding
58:02of what they did I that's not my
58:03responsibility business that was a huge
58:06release for me to realize that that
58:08responsibility all I had to take
58:09responsibility for was from the moment
58:11after how I was going to choose to cope
58:14was my responsibility not what they did
58:17no I was Sor I was just going to add by
58:19saying that again it comes back to that
58:20thing that you said that actually the
58:21only thing that matters is love because
58:24looking at it and we've talked a lot on
58:26you know in the cast and that just about
58:28every if somebody has love they probably
58:30wouldn't have turned out like that the
58:31fact that they have yes and what they
58:33did and I agree the the the punishment
58:36I'm glad was sufficient but it again
58:38brings back that thing of love and how
58:42you you molded you know it doesn't come
58:45from nowhere yeah well I have life
58:47Ellison's Journey for the month of
58:49August is on at the theater on the
58:51Square Auto in general theater on the
58:52Square this is a very important story
58:55and I think it has to go Nationwide so
58:57hopefully joerg will be the beginning of
58:59it and that the story Ellison Story will
59:02go to all parts of our society who need
59:04to see the lowest point that a human
59:07being can reach and then the very
59:09highest point that they can reach as
59:11well and listen you're an inspiration it
59:13has been wonderful having you in the
59:14studio suan welcome back to South Africa
59:17thank you for coming in and I'm looking
59:19so forward to watching the production
59:20and just telling the story of survival
59:23and strength of character and love and
59:25light overcoming all so I hope that you
59:27enjoyed the show I hope that you have
59:29been inspired and I hope that the month
59:31of August which is women's month will
59:34make a very positive uh impression on
59:36you for that month and and it's not
59:38something that we've just got to look at
59:39on the 9th of Augustus as a day off but
59:42it's really something we need to think
59:44about the women not only in this country
59:46but also around the world so thank you
59:48so much for joining me it has truly been
59:51an absolute pleasure and I look forward
59:52to being with you same time next week
59:54with with the voice from me Nikki
59:55seberini goodbye conversations with
59:58Nikki was brought to you by study apps.
1:00:01co.za South Africa's leading education
1:00:04app for
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