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Alex Jones' Ex-Wife Interview, UBI Becomming a Scam, Networks Bail on Trump Rant, & More! — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:06the david pakman show at david
0:09pakman.com I want to start the show a
0:23little bit differently today instead of
0:25talking about the day's news which we'll
0:27get to and we've got a very interesting
0:28interview coming up for you today I want
0:31to talk about a topic that's getting
0:32more and more attention and that's the
0:34topic of universal basic income or some
0:37version of it we've talked about a
0:38negative income tax the point is an idea
0:41of a non means-tested source of money
0:45for people regardless of employment with
0:50the potential to lift a significant
0:52number of people out of poverty and if
0:55you've been watching the show for any
0:56length of time you know that I'm in
0:57favor of something like this and
0:59sometimes we've answered audience
1:01questions about what I prefer a
1:03universal basic income or a negative
1:06income tax do I have a preference do I
1:08think that all social welfare benefits
1:11should be eliminated along with their
1:13respective bureaucracies and sort of
1:16consolidated into one non means taxed
1:20tested universal basic income or do we
1:23want to try to target based on income
1:25levels a big picture I believe that
1:27something like it is is simply going to
1:30be a necessity right as we rethink
1:32society in the next 10 to 20 years
1:35really are sort of forced to reset the
1:37briefing society due to automation and
1:40technological unemployment and the
1:42continued destruction of jobs
1:44elimination of jobs as a result of
1:46technological advances and changes to
1:48our sort of socioeconomic status quo but
1:51in the past
1:51I've not just been completely effusive
1:54and a cheerleader of ubi with no caveats
1:58right I've expressed some concerns in
2:01the past about how ubi would actually be
2:04implemented and what the effect would be
2:07or should be or could be and there's a
2:09very interesting article in TruthDig
2:12that i read yes
2:13today which reminded me that this is an
2:15issue I've been wanting to tackle for a
2:17while and why not today and I don't want
2:20to be cynical right and I and I haven't
2:22wanted to be cynical when talking about
2:24ubi in the past but I've said that when
2:28you see a bunch of ultra rich CEOs and
2:31founders of some of the biggest
2:33corporations especially in tech and
2:35e-commerce companies like Microsoft
2:38Amazon Facebook when you see companies
2:40like that and their CEOs and founders
2:43emphatically and enthusiastically for
2:46universal basic basic income
2:48we should be cautiously optimistic right
2:52hoping that they're in favor of it for
2:54the right reasons but we also want to
2:56kind of verify why are they so thrilled
2:59with the idea of universal basic income
3:01in case in point
3:02Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and
3:05Richard Branson Bill Gates some less
3:09well-known sort of oligarch rich guys
3:11like Stewart Butterfield they've all
3:13expressed that they like the idea of
3:15universal basic income so okay that's
3:17great but we need to really put a
3:20critical eye on why they are so in favor
3:22of it and also how Universal basic
3:25income could be sort of appropriated for
3:29the good of what our kind of modern-day
3:32oligarchs right the ultra-rich founders
3:34of these major corporations and if you
3:37think about one way to think about this
3:39would be to say all right well if we put
3:41in universal basic income what wouldn't
3:44change like what would stay the same if
3:47we put in ubi
3:48and that can start to sort of give us an
3:51idea about why it might be appealing to
3:54some of the biggest corporations on the
3:56planet if you put in ubi business and
3:59market regulation doesn't change it
4:01remains the same living wage
4:03requirements for people who are working
4:06don't change simply because you put in
4:09universal basic income labor conditions
4:13for people working in not great
4:15conditions right whether it's sweatshops
4:17or whatever the case may be labor
4:19conditions aren't automatically upgraded
4:21because everybody gets eight grand a
4:23year or eleven grand a year or whatever
4:25the proposal might say
4:27in universal basic income college is no
4:30more affordable just because you give
4:33people universal basic income other than
4:35sort of by the obvious nature of them
4:37having a little bit more money but the
4:39problem of the explosive cost of a
4:41college education
4:42that doesn't change merely because you
4:45have universal basic income it's simply
4:47not part of it and in fact there are
4:50many companies that say they want
4:52universal basic income that are the same
4:55companies that are creating a need for
4:57it
4:57outsourcing automation pillaging of
5:01natural resources gigantic carbon
5:03footprints some of these companies
5:06eliminate the need for a lot of these
5:09jobs so they would want people receiving
5:12universal basic income because that's
5:15going to give them that customers that
5:16they would otherwise lose if you start
5:18putting people out of work in the United
5:20States because you outsource production
5:22to China for example some of those
5:25people in the US are no longer going to
5:27be able to afford your product or
5:28service anymore
5:29have the government give them a basic
5:32income and now all of a sudden they get
5:34back into the possible pool of your
5:36customers it's perfect and one of the
5:38big tenants or maybe better said one of
5:42the characteristics of neoliberalism is
5:46free market and corporate power setting
5:50up universal basic income could very
5:53easily be used to number one just create
5:56more customers for the corporations
5:58responsible for eliminating a lot of
6:00these jobs and number two universal
6:03basic income could be used to push back
6:05against regulation and minimum wage laws
6:07and other Pro worker laws right why do
6:10we need to raise the minimum wage we
6:12just put in place universal basic income
6:15let's keep the minimum wage really low
6:17which benefits these really large
6:19corporations except that by keeping the
6:22minimum wage low the corporation's keep
6:25making their executives richer off of
6:28profits at the expense of paying workers
6:31a living wage and they can hide behind
6:33the creation of ubi and in fact we
6:36already see this right companies like
6:38McDonald's
6:40Walmart we've talked about these
6:42companies already in part get away with
6:45paying the terrible wages and benefits
6:47that they pay because lots of their
6:49employees get food stamps and other
6:52social welfare benefits from the
6:53government Social Welfare subsidizes the
6:57terrible wages that some of these very
6:59profitable companies pay in the United
7:01States and UB I could make that way
7:03worse the so called gig economy right
7:06driving for uber and lyft as an example
7:09major problems they're taking advantage
7:11of contractors rather than making the
7:14drivers employees we need to be looking
7:17at a lot of elements of what's going on
7:19there
7:19throw in a basic income give everybody
7:21nine thousand eleven thousand thirteen
7:23thousand dollars a year well why are we
7:25gonna now get involved in making lyft
7:28and uber change their model yeah
7:30working for them doesn't pay that much
7:32but we passed ubi don't go after them
7:35now everybody's got their eight thousand
7:37bucks as a base this isn't an argument
7:39against universal basic income to be
7:42clear this is a word of caution
7:45now that ubi is getting more and more
7:47attention it's a word of caution that we
7:50need to think critically about this and
7:53really think about how it would work in
7:55practice now is there a particular
7:57answer or solution that I'm bringing up
8:00no actually I don't know right what I
8:02can tell you is that universal basic
8:04income needs to work in concert with
8:08other really significant structural
8:11changes to our society that quite
8:13frankly I'm pretty skeptical we're gonna
8:15be making anytime soon and I remain
8:17completely convinced about the need for
8:21something like a universal basic income
8:24or a negative income tax or some other
8:26proposal some of some others of which
8:29I've been reviewing and will talk to you
8:30about but I'm just as as as convinced
8:33that just dropping nine thousand dollars
8:36in everybody's pocket every year or
8:38eleven thousand dollars isn't going to
8:40fix a lot of the structural problems
8:43that we have in our socio-economic
8:44reality and at its core when you give
8:48everybody nine thousand dollars you do
8:50nothing to deal with the problem of in
8:53and wealth inequality which has economic
8:56consequences it has social consequences
9:00it has psychological consequences that
9:03we've talked about about just these
9:04drastic and growing disparities between
9:07rich and poor so what I would like to
9:10hear from you is specifically what else
9:13needs to happen in concert with a
9:16universal basic income to actually make
9:19this something that would be a net
9:21benefit in total aside from just again
9:24dropping nine thousand dollars in
9:26people's laps which i think is a good
9:28thing i think that ubi and these concert
9:30concepts are something that is they're
9:32not only good ideas they're gonna be
9:34necessary ideas in the next ten to
9:36twenty years in the United States but
9:38they're not going to do anything about
9:39so many of the other problems that we
9:40have and what we need to be a hundred
9:42person I needs to be crystal clear as we
9:44advocate for ubi that it cannot be used
9:48by the rich and by big corporations and
9:52by oligarchs to say we don't need to
9:55regulate we don't need living wage we
9:59don't need to do anything else because
10:00we did drop nine thousand bucks into
10:03everybody's pocket that's my concern at
10:05this point I do wonder whether or not
10:07the universal basic income would be
10:08entirely good for the rich in
10:10corporations though because the ubi
10:12would be redistributed right I mean
10:15those that money would have to come from
10:16somewhere it would likely come from the
10:18rich so maybe they would see their taxes
10:20increase so when people like Mark
10:22Zuckerberg or Elon Musk come out and say
10:24we're in favor of universal basic income
10:26maybe they are just acting in the best
10:29interest of the country and want to pay
10:30it forward yeah I mean most of the
10:32proposals wouldn't require an increase
10:34in taxes because you would just
10:35reshuffle other programs that are out
10:37there and you might even actually save
10:39money because you would eliminate the
10:41bureaucracies required for a lot of
10:43those programs so welfare state so in
10:46that case it actually it wouldn't
10:48necessarily have that effect but we'll
10:50follow it I'm interested in hearing from
10:51the audience what your thoughts are I'm
10:53on Twitter at D Pakman and the show is
10:55on Twitter at David Pakman show the
10:57David Pakman show
10:58at david pakman.com
11:00[Music]
11:11[Music]
11:13the david pakman show at david
11:16pakman.com today's new member of the day
11:19is ronald pearson ronald thank you
11:21we do depend on the support of members
11:23like ronald and we also depend on the
11:25support of not only new members but our
11:27longtime sustaining members and today's
11:30sustaining member of the day is cam
11:33McNeely cam has been with us for years
11:35and years and I remember when cam first
11:37signed up in fact and he's been with us
11:40ever since it feels like just yesterday
11:41cam even though it has been at this
11:44point close to 7 years going on seven
11:47years join ronald and cam by becoming
11:49members at david pakman.com slash
11:51membership we have a coupon code vote
11:53soon 18 which will save you 40% we're
11:56also trying to get 500 new financial
12:00supporters in order to expand the show
12:02increase the number of shows and the
12:04duration of every show you can do that
12:06by becoming a member you can also do it
12:09by being a patron at patreon.com slash
12:11david pakman show or by becoming a
12:14sponsor of our youtube channel at
12:16youtube.com slash the david pakman show
12:19this is something really funny last
12:21night I was browsing the David Pakman
12:22show subreddit and there was a thread
12:24that someone made pointing out that
12:27there should be sort of a David Pakman
12:29show
12:29bingo of sorts showing that there are a
12:32few different catchphrases a sort of
12:36drinking game or bingo of the game any
12:39time david says says the phrase or words
12:42gong show abortive or depraved listeners
12:46have to take a shot and this gave me the
12:47idea that we should actually develop
12:49like a david pakman show bingo board I
12:51don't know what we would do with it we
12:52could turn it into like a thousand-piece
12:53puzzle we could send it out as a sort of
12:56poster print I don't know what exactly
12:58we would do with it and the the reddit
13:01participant is including some good ones
13:03I think also on it would have to be if I
13:05accidentally punch my mic that would
13:07have to be like the center square which
13:09sometimes happens when I get very very
13:11impassioned
13:12about a story I think I say vile quite a
13:14bit depraved is a good one
13:17shows a good one and so is abortive
13:19asking a live caller if they're on
13:22speakerphone should definitely be a box
13:24on the bingo board joking about how
13:27infrequently I mentioned membership I
13:29think might be something that could be
13:31on there quite frankly is another phrase
13:33that I tend to use a lot any number of
13:36is of course a long time classic that
13:38goes back a long ways but I don't know
13:39what else should be on it right and I'm
13:41curious to hear from the audience and I
13:43don't even know like is a bingo board
13:45looks like there are they five by five
13:47is what it looks like from this picture
13:49so we need 25 total phrases or words I
13:53think we can get to 20 yeah I've got a
13:56few too it's a whole thing and then you
13:58also like to impersonate Trump a lot
14:00yeah so many many could be a square
14:02Bigley or big league yeah although I
14:05don't know that it shouldn't when if I'm
14:07satirically using someone else's
14:09catchphrase I think that's a little
14:11dishonest for a bingo board because they
14:12should really be my phrases now that
14:15ones that I've sort of jokingly
14:16appropriated from someone else if we do
14:18this you have to like tune that out
14:20though you can't think about the bingo
14:21board because otherwise there'll be some
14:23like inherent bias there yeah I know
14:24I'll be very losing words they're
14:26choosing not to say some words right but
14:28presumably the bingo boards are
14:29randomized so that not everyone has the
14:31same board and that way cuz otherwise
14:33everybody wins at the same time right as
14:35long as they're there paying attention
14:36so write in tell me what other words and
14:39phrases should should be there any
14:42number I know that there are lots of
14:44others maybe one would be when a hatred
14:47uses your instead of your like you
14:50apostrophe re versus why oh you are like
14:53that would be part of the bingo a bingo
14:55item I'm open okay so get in touch
14:57comment on the YouTube video for this
15:00story comment on that reddit thread at
15:03david pakman.com slash re d di t email
15:06me tweet me whatever i'm gonna start
15:07putting together a list and once we get
15:0925 good ones we'll figure out something
15:11to do with the bingo board i think it's
15:14gonna be a stunningly good idea maybe
15:16you get a free bingo board with a new
15:18membership in the future or something
15:19like that okay big breaking news story
15:21according to the Kremlin Donald Trump
15:23has invited Vladimir Putin to the White
15:25House and you might say well who cares
15:27we should want better relationships with
15:30Russia
15:31we should want to be Russia's friend
15:33this is great yay
15:34and then we get back to reality and we
15:37learned that this reportedly happened
15:39during that same phone call a couple of
15:40weeks ago where after being told do not
15:44congratulate Vladimir Putin on his sham
15:47election win Donald Trump did exactly
15:49that congratulated Vladimir Putin on his
15:52win mentioned nothing about election
15:55meddling mentioned nothing about the
15:56continued suspicious deaths of Russian
15:59dissidents around the world and the
16:01claim about this invitation to maybe
16:03come to the White House for Vladimir
16:04Putin came from a Kremlin aide named
16:07Yuri ochakov who said that Russian who
16:10said to Russian journalists that quote
16:12if everything will be alright
16:14I hope that the Americans will not back
16:16away from their own proposal to discuss
16:19the possibility of holding a summit when
16:22our president spoke on the phone it was
16:24trump who proposed holding the first
16:27meeting in Washington in the White House
16:30Putin hasn't been to the White House
16:32since 2005
16:33when george w bush was president when
16:36the US and russia i guess sort of had a
16:38better relationship you could say so why
16:41do we care well we care because this is
16:44vladimir putin's manipulation of donald
16:47trump bearing fruit right it's another
16:49example of putin getting what he wants
16:52which is be being seen as a sort of
16:54serious world leader that gets invited
16:57and the red carpet is rolled out for
16:59them and they get to go into the most
17:01special of places although certainly the
17:03white the Oval Office has become less
17:05special since Donald Trump has
17:07appropriated it what better situation
17:10for Putin than a long in-person meeting
17:14with Trump on Trump's own turf were
17:17Putin who is very skilled will use his
17:21skills to manipulate Trump and even even
17:24when you look at how we found out about
17:25this right even the release of this news
17:28by Russia is part of the ploy to
17:32embarrass Trump and just create chaos
17:34because now it's win-win for Vladimir
17:37Putin if Trump admits yeah I I did say
17:40that he could come to the White House
17:42well why wasn't it mentioned
17:44and why would Trump do it and why would
17:47he reward Russia with inviting Vladimir
17:50Putin to the White House and then if
17:52Trump denies it it immediately calls
17:54into question whether Trump is lying
17:56something that he does a lot and if so
17:59it would make us wonder why is this
18:01something that Trump would lie about
18:02which only increases more of the
18:04suspicion about what's going on with
18:06Russia the fact that we're first hearing
18:09about this from Russia is sort of part
18:11of the chaos that Russia is so expertly
18:15catalyzing and we once again we've got
18:18to apply Trump's razor to this as I
18:20mentioned yesterday no matter what you
18:22believe the limits of geopolitical
18:23stupidity to be the current
18:26administration the Trump administration
18:27will act in the most ignorant and stupid
18:30way possible to the point that you will
18:33be shocked and in fact the most likely
18:35scenario is that we get initially a
18:38denial from the Trump administration
18:40followed by a White House visit by
18:43Vladimir Putin and then there will never
18:45actually be a follow-up question about
18:47wait I thought you'd deny that you had
18:48invited him to him here the way it
18:50always goes is is some version of that
18:52right we hear from the Washington Post
18:54or the New York Times something that
18:57sounds totally nuts then you know Trump
19:01uses his bathtub as a toilet or
19:03something that sounds absolutely nutty
19:06White House immediately condemns says
19:08the president would never use his
19:10bathtub as a toilet it's the fake news
19:12media including that failing fake news
19:14Amazon Jeff Bezos Washington Post
19:16they're smearing the president then like
19:19two days later Trump goes to Twitter and
19:21says hey yeah alright I use my bathtub
19:22as a toilet and Hillary was using her
19:24bathtub as a toilet before I did and the
19:27FBI refuses to look into when Hillary
19:29Clinton is using her bathtub as a toilet
19:31no one cares about that and I've been
19:34treated very very unfairly and then the
19:36sort of cherry on top is three days go
19:38by and then Trump says why I never said
19:41I used my bathtub as a toilet I was
19:43misquoted by the loser New York Times I
19:47never said it and then a hundred grand
19:49goes to another pornstar in hush money
19:51and we all forget about it because we're
19:53like 10 scandals past it that is the
19:55sort of mo of how these things develop
19:58will we
19:58ever hear about it again I genuinely
20:00don't know I wanted to talk about this
20:03yesterday but didn't have time last week
20:06after weeks and weeks of not taking
20:09questions in a press conference after
20:11days of having nothing public on his
20:13calendar whatsoever Trump decided to do
20:16basically a campaign rally he went to
20:19Ohio to do a rally in front of a
20:21friendly crowd it's kind of like what
20:22you do when you're running for president
20:23supposedly it was going to be an
20:25infrastructure speech by the way how
20:28often is it infrastructure week it seems
20:30like almost every week in this
20:32administration is infrastructure week
20:33Trump went completely and totally off
20:36the rails it turned into a very strange
20:38garbled rant resembling the English
20:41language only loosely and demonstrating
20:43a sort of Sarah Palin like inability to
20:46communicate anything of meaning through
20:48language and it got so bad that the
20:50three major cable networks CNN MSNBC and
20:54Fox News all just cut away from the
20:56speech although you'll be pleased to
20:57know that good old Fox Business Network
20:59stayed with the entire thing all the way
21:01through here is Fox bailing when it got
21:04weird former george w bush white house
21:07press secretary dana perino who's now a
21:09fox news anchor fittingly explaining
21:12that they are going away and she looked
21:14sort of in physical pain as she said it
21:1732,000 soldiers are even watching
21:19president Russell is in Ohio giving a
21:21speech wide-ranging speech but mostly
21:22focusing on his infrastructure plan and
21:25former White House deputy chief of staff
21:26Karl Rove is back with me I like that
21:29wide-ranging is code for Trump is all
21:31over the place real quick go to Karl
21:33Rove to try to say this save us here so
21:36even Fox cutting away even though they
21:38did stay with it a few minutes longer
21:39than CNN and MSNBC so here just random
21:44weird moments the entire speech was
21:46totally off the rails all right here's
21:47just a random 20 seconds of Trump from
21:50the speech we're very important and
21:54respected in some circles Democrat said
21:59we want to get rid we should get rid of
22:00our Second Amendment in other words get
22:03rid of it that's really
22:06good sir could be right about that so
22:14we're going to protect our Second
22:15Amendment that's not going to happen we
22:16have the best judges we put on a
22:18tremendous amount of great federal
22:21district court judges will be setting
22:24records we are setting records appeals
22:27court judges Supreme Court judge
22:30fantastic justice Gorsuch what is he
22:35talking about setting records like what
22:37what the hell is this guy on just
22:39another few seconds from Trump's bizarre
22:41speech that networks couldn't even stay
22:43with it and we didn't have one Democrat
22:45who voted for that they want to raise
22:47your taxes and they want people to come
22:50in from the border and they want I guess
22:55want I can't imagine they want but
22:57certainly drugs are flowing across
22:59borders we need walls we started
23:02building our wall I'm so proud of it I
23:04started we started we have 1.6 billion
23:06and we've already started you saw the
23:09pictures yesterday I said what a thing
23:11of beauty and on September 28th we go
23:14further yeah that was a lie by the way
23:16the pictures he's referring to were from
23:18the replacement of two miles of border
23:20fence dating back to the 1990s we've got
23:23one more clip again just disjointed
23:25rantings of a madman we spent and I was
23:29against it from the beginning they try
23:31and say well maybe not I was against it
23:34from the beginning
23:35and by the way we're knocking the hell
23:36out of Isis will be coming out of Syria
23:38like very soon let the other people take
23:41care of it now very soon very soon we're
23:44coming out we're gonna have a hundred
23:45percent of the Caliphate as they call it
23:49sometimes referred to as land take it
23:52all back quickly quickly but we're gonna
23:55be coming out of there real soon gonna
23:57get back to our country where we belong
23:59where we want to be but just think of it
24:02we spent as of three months ago seven
24:07trillion dollars not billion not million
24:11seven trillion with at ease nobody ever
24:14heard of the word trillion until 10
24:18years ago
24:19we spent seven trillion dollars in the
24:23Middle East we'd build a school that
24:26blow it up we'd build it again they'd
24:28blow it up we'd build it again
24:30has it been blown up yet but it will be
24:33but if we want a school in Ohio to fix
24:36the windows you can't get the money if
24:38you want a school in Pennsylvania or
24:42Iowa to get federal money you can't get
24:45the money we spent seven trillion
24:47dollars in the Middle East and you know
24:50we have for it nothing remember I used
24:53to say keep the oil as a civilian
24:56I used to say did anybody hear me say
24:59that that's before I decided to go in
25:01this journey with all of you I got tired
25:03of watching what on earth is this guy
25:06talking about i it is the disjointed
25:08rantings of someone who understands
25:11nothing it's always infrastructure week
25:14or month or whatever nothing actually
25:15happens except Trump just showing up and
25:18talking about is random random musings
25:20here and it's there's two phases of a
25:24Trump speech there's the horrible syntax
25:27of the teleprompter reading where he's
25:29looking off at an angle and saying and
25:32if we were to become a better nation of
25:36and then we would write like it's just
25:39you can't read it it just makes no sense
25:40whatsoever and then you see when he
25:42shifts off the teleprompter and look
25:44straight ahead and but then you don't
25:46even know what the guys talking about
25:47because he's just completely off the
25:49rails and improvising and I hope that
25:51soon we actually get a press conference
25:52supposedly he's doing one today
25:53questions like mr. president can you
25:56just say definitively did you have sex
25:58with stormy Daniels did you realize that
26:00your people were knowingly and directly
26:03dealing with Russian intelligence
26:04officers did you know about the hundred
26:07and thirty thousand dollars that Michael
26:08Cohen paid stormy Daniels have you
26:10reimbursed some specific questions and
26:13you you can't put him out there because
26:15he could end up saying something
26:16horribly self incriminating so I hope we
26:18get a press conference soon these
26:20speeches are so bizarre
26:22that even Fox News had to cut away from
26:24it even if he did get those questions
26:25though I think he would go off on a
26:27tangent about how he won the 2016
26:29election it was greatest victory of all
26:32time
26:32they'll maybe got to deflect maybe he
26:34would but I think he would very likely
26:36end up saying something totally totally
26:38self incriminating and it's pretty clear
26:39they're trying to keep him away from
26:40those types of questions hopefully he
26:41will get some today bizarre speech that
26:44a lot of people on our subreddit notice
26:47then you can join that discussion you
26:49can stomach it at david pakman.com slash
26:51re GDIT the david pakman show at david
26:57pakman.com welcome back to the David
27:17Pakman show I'm joined today by Kelly
27:20Jones who was previously married to Alex
27:23Jones of Infowars Fame we've been
27:26covering some of what has been going on
27:28with Alex Jones over the last 6 to 12
27:30months and Kelly is here to shed some
27:33more light on - really a lot of
27:35different things and Kelly I know that
27:36this has just been not a good moment for
27:39you and for your family in many ways so
27:41first of all I just I really appreciate
27:43you talking to me today thank you so
27:45much for having me on David so I don't
27:48even really know where to begin so I'll
27:50just pick somewhere and and we'll sort
27:52of go from there
27:53you were married to Alex Jones at at a
27:58certain point we learned that you have
28:01concerns as to how your son Rex may be
28:07manipulated or brainwashed by Alex Jones
28:10some of our audience may know that Rex
28:11has been participating in some Infowars
28:14content and I've even received emails
28:16from people sort of concerned about
28:17what's going on there so I mean big
28:19picture
28:20generally speaking what's your sort of
28:22biggest concern around the kids right
28:24now
28:25well David as many people are aware last
28:30year in April 2017 a jury decided for me
28:33to be primary parent to our three
28:35beautiful children
28:37this was after years of family
28:40litigation incepted primarily by Alex I
28:44was on the defense for years I had less
28:46and drug dealers and prostitutes went
28:48from being the primary caregiver to
28:51these kids to having almost no access to
28:52a jury victory spent you know every cent
28:56I had liquid getting that victory and
28:58the judge who acted with such tremendous
29:01bias in the case actually just left the
29:05kids primarily with Alex so number one I
29:07don't think America understands that and
29:09I'm so sad to even hear my son's name on
29:12the air I've fought really hard to keep
29:14their privacy and their innocence
29:16protected throughout all this and I
29:18realize like when things happened last
29:21week when things started coming out I
29:23said some really you know strong words I
29:26mean my son is actively apparently like
29:28watching my Twitter account which breaks
29:31my heart I've told him he's not allowed
29:33but the bottom line is this the judge
29:36basically kept all footage from Infowars
29:39from coming in before the jury this
29:41footage included Alex drunk raging
29:44threatening making a felonious threat to
29:47congressman Schiff saying you know
29:49basically challenging him to a duel was
29:51- there's a speculation that was
29:52felonious and really concerning things
29:55and then Alex got up on the stand and
29:57said he was an actor and that all of the
29:59info war stuff was irrelevant I'm here
30:02to tell America number one that was a
30:04great travesty of justice a bias trial
30:06in the first place but despite all that
30:08from what I showed the evidence was so
30:10concerning to the jury that they said
30:12these kids need to go with her mama and
30:14the judge has just left them there and
30:16clearly it is all about Infowars
30:19if you're a child of Alex Jones's in his
30:21household that is the plan that's laid
30:24out before you and it's it's a heartache
30:26you know so Kelly let me see unbeliev
30:28important things that I want to go
30:30through piece by piece you referenced
30:32this concept that during the trial there
30:35was the assertion made and you can
30:38correct me I I had read that it was by
30:40Alex Jones attorney but you're saying
30:42Alex made it but in either case there's
30:44this idea that you can't evaluate him in
30:48the real world based on what you see on
30:50Infowars because that's sort of a
30:51performance it's a character that he's
30:53playing now let me lay out the following
30:55question for you I met Alex at a radio
30:58conference years and years ago
31:00my impression was because of how he
31:02acted there in private compared to how
31:05he acts on the program that he is sort
31:08of playing a character on the program
31:09that maybe he doesn't believe in all of
31:11these conspiracy theories that maybe he
31:13is sort of playing it up are you here
31:16today able to tell us whether or not
31:19this is a character or the real Alex
31:21Jones that is seen on the program well
31:25first of all I want to remind your
31:26audience that any testimony under oath
31:28is is your word and if it's a lie it's
31:33aggravated perjury and it should be
31:36criminally tried regarding whether or
31:38not it's a persona apparently in court
31:41is a persona when it behooves him to try
31:43to get child custody but then the next
31:46day he goes on his own program to say no
31:48I'm not a performance actor I'm a
31:49performance actor when I play you know
31:51lizard man or whatever but really in
31:54real life I care about all these things
31:56as a former member of his household and
31:59knowing even now how my children have
32:01very concerning views about many
32:03different things the the the paranoia
32:06the the bizarre concepts are definitely
32:12a living in Alex Jones and in his
32:15household but beyond that I would say
32:17that the really concerning behaviors
32:20that affect you know children's
32:22development or a family's development
32:24the violence the rage the anger those
32:27are worse in private life right yeah so
32:29you're looking at his best self on the
32:31air so Kelly you know you never see
32:36writing you never saw anything in the
32:40private Alex Jones that suggested that
32:43the conspiracy theories that he espouses
32:46and all of that stuff are a joke or for
32:48the show as far as you know all of those
32:50beliefs are actually sincerely held
32:52beliefs I mean listen I actively had to
32:56homeschool my kids I actively had to my
32:59kids are I don't want to say that
33:01actually because that would violate
33:02their privacy but there's a lot of
33:04things in my life that I would not have
33:05done if I had not been married to Alex
33:07Jones absolutely like he believes all
33:09that stuff and worse and it's really all
33:12he cares about he doesn't really have
33:13have any other interests or any other
33:16life he's just a cocoon of paranoia and
33:19narcissism disputing it you know
33:22superimposing these feelings over his
33:24family and his entourage
33:26I wouldn't say friends I don't know that
33:27he really has any real friends everyone
33:29around it was highly paid but you know
33:33it which is sad I'm not saying that to
33:35diss him you know I'm not here to
33:36disparage him he's a guy with serious
33:39problems that instead of being helped by
33:40the court or people that could have
33:42helped our family they empowered his
33:44narcissistic rage so if he's not
33:46thinking about it he's watching himself
33:48think about it basically is what I was
33:49going to say it's a mess and it's it's
33:51horrible to be around was there a period
33:54let me put it a different way
33:56did you always question the conspiracy
34:00theories and the beliefs that were
34:02circulating in your household from Alex
34:05Jones did you have a phase where you
34:08were basically indoctrinated into the
34:10same stuff and you broke out of it in
34:11some way I mean absolutely I was
34:14indoctrinated I moved back to Austin for
34:17my my best friend was dying and I was in
34:20a very vulnerable state in my life I had
34:22actually just been working for PETA I
34:24was also disillusioned about that so I
34:26came back to Austin and met this guy he
34:29was kind of interesting we had a show
34:30with the same producer on access TV and
34:34you know it was he was just real
34:36different than anybody I'd ever met and
34:39slowly over time it became you know you
34:42need to come work for me in the house
34:44you need to do this and I was like I
34:45don't know you know and I was 29 I was
34:48definitely not completely thinking
34:51everything through and a few of later
34:54after the boiling water turned up to me
34:57you know the the Frog he always talks
34:59about in the pot right suddenly I was
35:02living in a domestically violent
35:04situation completely isolated from all
35:06friends and family I tried to leave
35:08repeatedly over the years but I would
35:10say at the beginning I definitely
35:13assimilated some of that and that's part
35:15of the reason why I'm talking out I
35:16would say I'm responsible for helping
35:19Alex with his initial success because my
35:21background was in grassroots publicity
35:23so I helped him get on the wire for the
35:24first time I got him his first big gest
35:27but as he sort of progressed or should
35:31we say regress or deteriorated I mean
35:33the Alex Jones you see today is actually
35:35very different than the original Alex
35:37Jones and I would say definitely by the
35:39time
35:40September 11th came around and I was
35:43standing in the front of our street with
35:44the candle my heart broken for our
35:45nation like everyone else and he was
35:47ranting and raging I really I was like
35:50whoa I don't understand what this is
35:51about and I did file many years prior
35:54it's I understand that people might not
35:57have a lot of sympathy for me and I get
35:58that you know I I do understand that and
36:01I'm sorry for whatever part I've had to
36:02play but I'm here also to tell people
36:05like this is reached a concerning level
36:07and some of you can see for some of the
36:10tweets you know and I'm kind of getting
36:11on another path here but he's become an
36:14incredibly powerful guy and his paranoia
36:16and conspiracy that was always
36:19nonpartisan has shifted and to really
36:22just he's a propaganda mouthpiece
36:24there's no other way to look at him and
36:25that mere fact shocks everybody but yes
36:28I say by the time my last child was born
36:31or my youngest child around 10 years ago
36:34I was not listening to the show I was
36:37actively opposed to it and just really
36:40disgusted actually by the content I was
36:43still somewhat involved in the business
36:44for sure you know management stuff and I
36:49tried to leave it's all I can say you
36:51know Kelly so as far as the inclusion of
36:55one of your kids on the program that is
36:58just publicly viewable to anybody as of
37:00late and again it's something people in
37:01my audience have expressed concern about
37:04what do you make of it I mean is it do
37:06you think that your son is is sort of
37:09being coerced into doing this is it a
37:12question of wanting to do it but because
37:14in some way he's been brainwashed by
37:17your ex-husband like what do you make of
37:19that well I would say a hundred percent
37:22you know that this child first of all
37:25alex is in complete violation of court
37:27order he's enjoying from broadcasting my
37:29son and he's enjoying from making
37:31unilateral decisions about my son my son
37:33I never see and at the time of the
37:36verdict he was really happy to see me
37:39and
37:40what's come into play with the case
37:42which is relevant to your question is
37:44this phenomenon called parental
37:45alienation parental alienation is a
37:47systematic abusive horribly
37:50psychologically abusive behaviors that
37:53effectively turn children against one
37:56parent turns kids against the other one
37:57yeah I mean I think it's pretty common
37:59people understand that in the sort of
38:01vernacular but Rex you know he has never
38:07had a chance he's he's brilliant
38:09my son he's so smart and he was so
38:11exuberant and engaged and I think that
38:14beyond the endangerment which it really
38:16does endanger him there really are cooks
38:18out there that both are like go get him
38:20tiger and are saying way worse things
38:22than that to him yeah but beyond that
38:26he's just been groomed for this role for
38:30years and years and I said something I
38:34was talking to somebody the other day
38:34it's like it say you were a car salesman
38:37and you only liked a certain brand of
38:39car and at 12 years old you told your
38:41kid this is what you're gonna do for
38:43your life you're gonna sell this car and
38:44this is the only car you're gonna like
38:46and all of the cars are terrible and
38:47that you made that kid get on and
38:49broadcast at 8:15 I think people would
38:50have a problem with that children need
38:53to develop their identity independently
38:56of their parents it came out in court
38:58and therefore I can say it that Alex has
39:00a narcissistic personality disorder and
39:02a big component of that is this overlay
39:05over the kids where kids have to our
39:07family members need to reflect you you
39:10know he's brilliant my son he wanted to
39:12be a personal trainer he told me he
39:14wanted his first car to be a Prius
39:16because he didn't want it his way pay
39:17for him he wanted to make his own way
39:19and I think that that's a little bit out
39:22the window now and he's all over still
39:24like big media and it's I'm so worried
39:27about him
39:28you know I'm so worried about him Kelly
39:30let's pause the conversation there were
39:32speaking with Kelly Jones she was
39:34previously married to Alex Jones
39:36for Wars Fame and we'll continue our
39:39conversation at where we left off the
39:41david pakman show at david pakman.com
39:45[Music]
39:55the david pakman show at david
39:57pakman.com
40:03I love the story the Catholic Church and
40:06the Vatican are now scrambling after
40:08Pope Francis sort of appeared to
40:11question whether there even is a hell
40:13which is kind of a pretty basic belief
40:16of Catholicism but you don't have to
40:18worry because the flunkies are claiming
40:19he was just misunderstood what happened
40:22is that during a recent meeting Eugenio
40:25Scalf re who's the now 93 year old
40:28founder of a Vatican newspaper asked
40:31Pope Francis where do bad Souls go of
40:35course the correct answer in the context
40:38of the Catholic Church is supposed to be
40:39while they go to hell and Pope Francis
40:41is quoted by Scalf Ari as saying quote
40:44they are not punished those who repent
40:47obtain God's forgiveness and take their
40:50place among the ranks of those who
40:52contemplate him but those who do not
40:55repent and cannot be forgiven disappear
40:58a hell doesn't exist the disappearance
41:02of sinning souls exists this led to
41:06panic at the Vatican that should be a
41:09name for a funny romantic comedy panic
41:11at the Vatican and if you're the Vatican
41:14you you sort of need the threat of
41:16eternity in hell to get people to fall
41:18in line right this is one of the ways in
41:19which you get people to do what you want
41:20them to do is convince them that if they
41:22don't do what you want them to do that
41:24they're gonna end up spending an
41:26eternity in hell they are writing this
41:28off as a misquote but they're not even
41:30offering an alternative meaning they're
41:31just saying quotes of the Pope are not
41:34accurate the Vatican said that the quote
41:35literal words pronounced by the Pope are
41:38not quoted and that quote no quotation
41:41of the article should be considered as a
41:43faithful transcription of the words of
41:45the Holy Father then the other
41:48interpretation explaining what's going
41:52on here is that what he meant
41:54isn't that hell doesn't exist but that
41:58hell as a place of fire and brimstone
42:01and misery isn't real like there's no
42:04hell if you imagine the burning Inferno
42:07but there is how if it's just separation
42:10from God and the disappearance of the
42:11soul or something like that but then
42:13you're really finding an explanation it
42:16just fit what
42:17was that was allegedly said here the
42:19problem with that is that there are
42:21endless poor trails of Hell by Catholics
42:24as exactly a place of fire and brimstone
42:27in their own scriptures in the book of
42:29Revelation in Corinthians anyway I don't
42:31really care about the specifics I just
42:33love how this Pope who is from Argentina
42:35by the way has thrown the Catholic
42:38Church into these moments of chaos as a
42:41result of just steering away even
42:44slightly from some of the orthodoxy of
42:47the church and the one sort of caveat
42:49here is that the interviewer scull fari
42:53Eugenio Scalf re he does have somewhat
42:56of a history of being I guess I'll call
42:59it fast and loose with the truth in some
43:02cases but it still seems weird that he
43:04would make up an interview whole cloth
43:06but both from a sort of marketing and PR
43:09perspective for his newspaper and from a
43:11legal perspective but this is a super
43:14interesting because we've been following
43:16the move away from Catholicism that's
43:18been going on you've seen people leaving
43:20Catholicism because they've stopped
43:23being religious altogether right like
43:24that's one layer which is in general
43:26particularly younger generations are
43:28becoming less and less religious over
43:30time but there's this whole other angle
43:32which is that there are Catholics who
43:33have also just left Catholicism and
43:36moved to Protestantism meaning non
43:38Catholic Christianity and part of it has
43:41to do with the specifics of the Catholic
43:43Church and it's sort of feeling quite
43:44frankly there's one of those possible
43:46bingo phrases quite frankly like a dated
43:49and sort of in in downfall organization
43:53even though they still have like 1.2 1.3
43:55billion adherents so it's gonna be an
43:58interesting decade I think for the
44:00Catholic Church upcoming yeah and I
44:01think that's why we're seeing such a
44:03progressive Pope in Pope Francis I mean
44:05the guy seems to be ok with gay marriage
44:07accepts that climate change exists it's
44:10just interesting how saying that hell
44:12doesn't exist is a bridge too far for
44:14these Catholics yeah and there's the
44:15last straw we can have the straight-up
44:17panicking and saying that's simply not
44:18what he said send me your thoughts I
44:20know that there are current and ex
44:21Catholics in the show audience and I'd
44:24be interested in hearing from them for
44:26sure we've got a voicemail number that
44:28number is two one nine two days
44:30P here is a voicemail that came in
44:33yesterday but hey David I was wondering
44:37if you think that the trend towards you
44:39know more autumn autumn Atty x'd warfare
44:42when using drones and stuff like that
44:44isn't a net benefit over you know the
44:47traditional method of just going and
44:49doing on-the-ground warfare I guess
44:52there's a sense that yeah there's a
44:54disconnect that comes from using drones
44:56but at the same time I guess it does
44:58save more a lot more American lives what
45:01do you think about that what in terms of
45:02the pros and cons
45:03yeah well listen you're absolutely right
45:06this is a really important topic you're
45:08absolutely right that drone warfare
45:10saves American lives that's absolutely
45:13true because Americans are able now to
45:15go and carry out a military operation
45:18with no boots on the ground and not even
45:22with pilots in the air right just with
45:24literally remote-controlled aerial
45:27vehicles controlled by a pilot sitting
45:29in front of a computer somewhere so that
45:31certainly reduces the death toll of some
45:34of these operations for Americans we are
45:37told by the advocates of drone warfare
45:40that it also reduces the death toll for
45:44our enemies because the precision of
45:47some of these drones allow the American
45:50military to strike only their intended
45:53target and to reduce collateral damage
45:55and civilian deaths how true that is I
45:59definitely have a question about the the
46:01real problem with drone warfare is sort
46:04of a psychological one and the
46:06disconnect that exists because if you
46:10are boots on the ground
46:11you could still carry out actions that
46:15are humanitarian in nature you could
46:17carry out actions that are totally
46:19deplorable in nature but you have a
46:21completely different connection to what
46:23it is that you're doing then if you are
46:25sitting somewhere in the United States
46:28or on an army base in Germany or
46:31wherever the case may be piloting what
46:34effectively is a remote-control airplane
46:36and the sort of technology ization I
46:39know that's not a word but the
46:41technology of warfare in the
46:44waise I think is very very problematic
46:47in terms of how it might influence what
46:49standards and practices we use to
46:52determine when we are going to do
46:53something and when we are not going to
46:55do something and of course that doesn't
46:56mean there aren't rules of engagement it
46:57doesn't mean that there aren't legal
46:59mechanisms that that are sort of
47:00overriding and controlling a lot of what
47:02it is that's going on here so to get
47:04back to the initial question because
47:05that's really what I want to get to and
47:07your question was in the net do I think
47:09that drone warfare is a benefit or not I
47:12think that if you're thinking in very
47:14concrete short term style you can say
47:19fewer people are probably dying when we
47:23use drones as opposed to other forms of
47:27military incursion the long term answer
47:30may be a very different one where we are
47:32seeing a continued sort of devaluing
47:35of the lives of those populations that
47:39we are targeting and in total the
47:43existence of drone warfare also might
47:46make it possible to carry out way more
47:49incursions in geographically disparate
47:52areas so I think that in the short term
47:54fewer people are dying over the long
47:56term I'm not at all convinced that this
47:58is a positive development but it's
47:59something we've done interviews around
48:00before and that I certainly plan to
48:02continue covering on the bonus show
48:04today we will talk about the teachers
48:06strike across Oklahoma based around
48:10compensation and wages I'm going to talk
48:13about a trump official asking Congress
48:15to start raining in a consumer watchdog
48:18agency no surprise at all that that's
48:20going on and also Grindr the gay dating
48:24app has decided to stop sharing HIV
48:28status to third-party vendors
48:31third-party vendors vendors and
48:32advertisers used to be able to actually
48:35target ads to users of the platform that
48:40disclose their potentially hiv-positive
48:44status which of course would be relevant
48:46in the dating sphere but also would make
48:48them potential targets for particular
48:50products and services and Grindr has
48:51decided they're no longer going to allow
48:53their third-party vendors to have access
48:55to that information
48:56we will be talking about that and much
48:58more on today's bonus show which you can
49:00get access to by signing up for
49:02membership at david pakman.com slash
49:04membership we do have a 40% off coupon
49:07code that you can take advantage of it
49:09is vote soon 18 and you can also make a
49:11pledge on patreon to get access to the
49:14bonus show at patreon.com slash david
49:18pakman show thanks for watching today
49:20we'll talk to you that
49:26the david pakman show at david
49:28pakman.com
49:29[Music]
49:34you

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