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Alex Hormozi's Playbook for Building Billion-Dollar Businesses — Transcript

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0:00Grab that seat. Sit down for us. Do you
0:03still own a Hummer EV?
0:05>> Uh, yeah, we do actually.
0:06>> You do? Give us your review. We were
0:08just talking about the Fiat Topelino. I
0:10don't think
0:11>> you're going to be in the market for
0:12that. Neck and neck.
0:13>> Neck and neck.
0:14>> It's a,000 pounds.
0:15>> So, I think what we could do is like if
0:16you just lined up like 10 of the Fiat
0:18like kind of like chariot like
0:20>> that's what I'm saying.
0:22The Hummer [laughter] like be my
0:24chariot.
0:24>> I think the Hummer. Imagine Imagine if
0:26the Hummers of the the Hummer is kind of
0:29the front of the the train and then you
0:30have like you you see the Hummer coming
0:32at you and then and then a bunch of the
0:34Topolinos kind of pull out in like a
0:36Vshape Fast and Furious. That would be
0:37that would be badass. Yeah. Take over
0:39the whole smog.
0:40>> How is How is life these days?
0:42>> Good.
0:43>> Is there a new book coming?
0:44>> There is another book coming.
0:46>> Okay.
0:46>> Yeah.
0:46>> Do you have a strategy for book launch
0:50cadence? Is it an annual thing? It's
0:53more like every 18 months to two years.
0:56>> But do you imagine that um continuing
0:59for your entire career?
1:01>> Every book I write I say is the last
1:03book I'm going to write and then I have
1:05like a six-month refractory period and
1:07then I'm like yeah, you know, I could I
1:09could write a book about something and
1:10then I just start writing again.
1:11>> What's the process like? Um, I have a
1:14bunch of notes on my phone of a topic
1:16because right now I've have like
1:17probably like 10 books that are at
1:20different stages of so I just mind dump
1:22wherever and then once there's enough
1:24stuff that I think this isn't like this
1:25is interesting I'll then start the book
1:27writing process. But I'm a big believer
1:28in um
1:29>> surface area of thought.
1:31>> Like if you were to sit down and say
1:32like I'm going to write a book about
1:33this and then you have two weeks it's
1:34like you don't have enough experiences
1:35that are diverse in a twoe period while
1:37you're writing to like let the paint
1:39dry. Sure.
1:40>> So, I kind of want to like have I want
1:41to be in, you know, a totally different
1:43state talking to somebody and be like, I
1:44didn't think about that. And then I add
1:46it to the book. And so, then all of a
1:47sudden, it's like the the density of of
1:48thought and ideas per word is much
1:50higher. But I think you just have to do
1:52it by like spreading out the time that
1:53So, like the time I'm thinking about a
1:55book is much longer than the time I'm
1:56writing the book.
1:56>> Is it purely thinking and you want a lot
1:59of thought to go into the different
2:01sections of the book or over the course
2:03of 18 months, is there actually a
2:05benefit to going out and having real
2:06world experiences?
2:07>> Oh, that's I mean that's
2:08>> and anecdotes, right?
2:09I'll have a working theory of like I
2:11think this is how I think people are
2:12missing this part of it
2:14>> and then I'll kind of start battle
2:16testing it and then when I realize that
2:18I'm using the same framework over and
2:20over again and successfully overcoming
2:21some issue I'm like this is it and then
2:23that's what the book becomes.
2:24>> How narrow do you want to stay? How
2:27narrow have you been in the surface area
2:29of thought around mainly the last three
2:32books?
2:34>> It's a really good question. um problem
2:36definition for the book I think is the
2:37hardest part of any book. Like the leads
2:39book, which is the second book, was the
2:40hardest book I've ever written. I'll
2:41never write a book that hard because I
2:43was like, I'm gonna write a book on
2:44advertising. It's like Jesus Christ,
2:45there's so many ways to get leads. And I
2:48put it all in one book. It took 19
2:49versions to get there.
2:50>> Yeah.
2:50>> The Money Models book was uh the fastest
2:53book because it was really just about
2:54rappers for promotions. Super valuable,
2:55but really easy to consume and use. And
2:57so I was like, "Okay, this is the lesson
2:59for me." Like, and offers super narrow,
3:00super narrow. And that book too was like
3:03all three of those books started as one
3:05kind of gigantic thing and I gave it to
3:06somebody and they're like dude you
3:07cannot. It was you like this and they're
3:09like I was like I'm going to have a tome
3:11[laughter]
3:12>> and then I decided to I want people to
3:13actually read it. Is there a itch in the
3:17back of your mind where you want to do
3:19sort of the Tim Ferrris thing where you
3:22go from 4hour work week, a business book
3:26to chef, body, lifestyle, money
3:31management, personal finance. Like
3:33there's so many topics that you talk
3:34about and people are interested
3:37>> and I'm sure you could sell those books
3:39and they might be edifying at a certain
3:42point because you're like I've I've
3:43scratched this itch three times, four
3:45times, 10 times, but is there a level of
3:48focus that you have to discipline
3:50yourself or does it come naturally?
3:51>> I only write about stuff that I feel
3:53like I have some unique take on. I think
3:55rewriting a book that already exists,
3:56other people already know there's no
3:58point. Um especially if like you're in
4:00the thick of it and you're thinking,
4:01>> "Oh, this has already been written
4:02before. It doesn't really motivate you."
4:04[laughter]
4:04>> Like I think it like I want to write
4:06something that only exists because I
4:08made it.
4:09>> Um
4:09>> same thing with businesses.
4:11>> Like there's
4:12>> I've had the experience of building a
4:14company or or just like starting to work
4:16on a company and being like, I can stop
4:17working on this and it will not matter
4:19at all.
4:20>> Yeah. the world. There's a bunch of
4:22alternatives [laughter] and and and that
4:24you can make that case for like most
4:26businesses, but there are some where
4:28you're like, if I don't build this, no
4:29one's going to build it, at least in the
4:31right way.
4:32>> Yeah. No, I have 100% that perspective
4:33when it comes to bookw writing.
4:34>> Yeah,
4:34>> it's funny. Uh, as as we talk about
4:37this, uh, Jeremy Gon, I know, is a good
4:39good friend of yours, good friend of
4:40ours. Uh, and
4:42>> every time he talks, people just listen.
4:44Yeah.
4:45>> And he's somebody who I would love to
4:47write a book almost because I just want
4:49him to go on another podcast, a proper
4:51podcast tour where he just kind of pops
4:53up, does invest like the best and then
4:55goes goes dark for like 18 months. But
4:57like it's somewhat of a tragedy that
4:59he'll probably write a book someday, but
5:00it'll be in like 40 years. So in the
5:02meantime, you have to like in in the
5:04meantime, you have to just like, you
5:05know, take notes and and uh try to pick
5:07stuff up from from the podcast. But
5:09there's so many people that like so many
5:12people that should be writing books just
5:13don't have the time and they'll
5:14eventually come and take like a victory
5:16lap at the end of their career. But I
5:19think it's like you could just do a lot
5:20of stuff other than write books. Uh but
5:22it's but it's it's it's very valuable to
5:25be like writing in real time versus like
5:27saving up a bunch of lessons and then
5:29kind of summarizing it at the end. I
5:31think you miss out on the the the
5:33wrinkles, like the tiny little details
5:34that like if you if you think about like
5:36the story of how you met your wife and
5:37you go back like you've told it a bunch
5:39of times, but if you told it the day
5:40after you did it, you'd have so much
5:42richer memory of all the tiny little
5:43things that happened. And so I'm a big
5:45believer of like while it's wet like
5:46paint it um and then let it dry over
5:48time. But that's why like I always want
5:50documentation to be as real as
5:51>> Yeah. It's funny the final book will
5:53actually be the easiest to write cuz you
5:55have all the books and you're like okay
5:57what what was actually like worth kind
5:58of
5:59>> greatest hits in that book. Yeah,
6:02>> we we had Mark Pinkis on the show,
6:04founder of Zingga. He wrote a book and
6:06he said that he thinks everyone should
6:08write a book in their life, but he also
6:09said everyone should build a house.
6:12>> Do you have any aspirations to build
6:15real estate physically?
6:17>> Like me do it,
6:18>> you do it. No, not by not by hand, but
6:21just take a take a a piece of dirt and
6:23turn
6:24>> working with an architect and team. But
6:26is that something that you know a lot of
6:28people that's on their bucket list? I
6:29don't know where you've been in your
6:30real estate journey, but how do you
6:32think about that as a uh as a bucket
6:35list item?
6:36>> It's not.
6:37>> Why not?
6:38>> I mean, we buy big multif family that
6:40are already existing and we do that. But
6:42if there were an investment opportunity
6:44that made sense, I would
6:45>> it's you're not interested because it's
6:46not productive.
6:47>> It's just not on my list.
6:48>> Purely for like, you know, the satisfy
6:50like have you listened to like thought
6:51about listening to Beyonce today? I'd be
6:53like, not really. But I mean, like if it
6:55was on, sure. You know, I'm not against
6:56it.
6:57>> Yeah. I think some people just have the
6:58the itch to like customize their own
7:02living environment. And I'm I'm curious
7:04about how you see your living
7:05environment because I mean from those
7:07first YouTube videos like the monastic
7:11what were you closet? You were in the
7:12closet like like that that was I don't
7:15know if that was intentional but it was
7:18uh it was somewhat deliberate. You
7:19picked that space over a big living
7:21room, right? Uh, and I'm wondering how
7:22you think about your li your living
7:25space, your work space, your office
7:27space today.
7:28>> So, I would say all of the time that I
7:31when I work, I'm very intentional about
7:33that space.
7:34>> When I'm not working, it's whatever Ila
7:36wants. I don't care. Like, if she if
7:38she's 10% happier,
7:40>> I have like a percent correlation to my
7:43happiness. And me being more comfortable
7:45has no correlation back. [laughter] So,
7:47so like whatever she's good with, I'm
7:49good with. Uh but in terms of like where
7:51I work, it's almost all how do I how do
7:54I eliminate every sense of distraction
7:56for me personally. And so it's like I
7:57don't have windows. Some people like
7:59having windows. I don't think anything
8:00wrong with that. For me, it's like I
8:01need no stimulation because I'm
8:03>> I'm very distractable. And so I have to
8:05have like I earplugs in, no light, all
8:08artificial. I have like soundproof like
8:10you know, like I want nothing.
8:12>> Yeah.
8:12>> Uh and then I can finally focus on what
8:14I'm what I'm trying to work on.
8:15>> Yeah. Uh, can we go back to the early
8:20YouTube days on the latest channel, I
8:22think 2020,
8:23>> uh, in that closet. We both launched
8:26YouTube channels around the same time
8:28and we were talking about this. You com
8:29you completely smoked me. [laughter]
8:31>> It was John is, you know, obviously
8:34pretty good at media and but and was
8:36like the the his channel was like just
8:38following his interests like Silicon
8:39Valley history. The the execution was
8:42like by all means amazing. Like got to
8:43like half a million subscribers. I treat
8:45it like a blog and you treat it like a
8:46business.
8:47>> Yeah. Yeah. And it was like but it was a
8:48much smaller TAM. And like when you
8:50compare the two channels and like your
8:52strategy, the execution difference was
8:54like was it me and like I had one remote
8:57editor for years. I was like not
8:59monetizing, not really thinking about it
9:00as a business. But I'm interested to
9:02know uh on day one of of that YouTube
9:05channel because I know you've done media
9:06stuff before, but like the the the the
9:09current media business. Uh what was the
9:11team like? What was the strategy? How
9:13much time were you putting into it?
9:15Because I know you had exited some
9:16businesses, you had some space to
9:18breathe, but how serious were and then
9:20what was the evolution of that?
9:22>> I'll walk you through as fast as I can.
9:24So, uh, the first thing was I found any
9:28media editor, uh, like an agency. And
9:31they were like, uh, three YouTube videos
9:32a week is what we do. And I was like,
9:34all right, then that's what I'll do. And
9:35so, I just webcammed like, and I had a
9:38little suitcase that would open up so I
9:39could travel cuz Leila and I were
9:40traveling for the year of the sale. Um,
9:42and so that's what I did. Wherever we
9:43were, I was like, open up. And then
9:45because at that time, I didn't have
9:46really any work. So, I had all these
9:48thoughts that I was like, I'm just going
9:49to get them. I'm going to dump them all
9:50out. And so, that's basically what
9:51YouTube strategy 1.0 was. Yeah.
9:52>> Um, I had somebody cold reach out like
9:55legit uh to when right short started.
9:58They were like, I'll do everything. You
10:00already have YouTube stuff. I'm just
10:01going to clip it. Just give me
10:02permission. Yep. And I was like,
10:04>> oh, cool. And so,
10:05>> I accidentally started clipping
10:06>> 100%. And so, that was like we were
10:08really early on shorts.
10:09>> So, good. And then as soon as he did a
10:11pretty good job, uh he's like, "You
10:13know, if I actually recorded you doing
10:14these, they'd do even better." And I was
10:16like, "Fine, but I only want to do one
10:17day a quarter." And he was like, "Fine."
10:19So he'd fly out for one day and we'd do
10:20a 100 shorts in one sitting, 100%. I
10:22would just do 100. And that that kind of
10:24style of of filming and recording is
10:26pretty much how I still kind of rock
10:27that way, which is like I want I prefer
10:29a marathon day. Like I'd rather just
10:30start at, you know, six and then just
10:32rock until every ounce of juice is gone
10:34and then it's like great, we'll do it
10:35again in a week or whatever.
10:36>> Yeah. We're sort of like that marathon
10:38every day. [laughter]
10:40Yeah. Yeah. One of my one of my
10:41questions is like what goes into a
10:43twohour YouTube video because you'll do
10:45these like master classes two hours and
10:46I'm like that is insane. And then I'm
10:48like I do three hours every day. So like
10:49now it's become more possible. But I
10:51imagine that there's lots of
10:52>> but the three hours was kind of like
10:54just going until we got tired.
10:56>> Yeah.
10:57>> Like by 3 hours we're usually like okay
10:59like probably need to go to the
11:00bathroom, probably want to eat some
11:01food.
11:02>> Yeah. And and this show is much less
11:03structured. But when you're when you're
11:05thinking about like the portfolio like
11:08>> you the volume is just incredibly
11:10important to everything in media these
11:12days. You agree with that?
11:13>> Oh 100%.
11:14>> Volume negates luck all day. Volume
11:16negates luck. Violence is the answer.
11:18Yeah. It's like on our wall at HQ.
11:20>> What formats are you most excited about
11:23for 2026 2027?
11:25>> Live interactive.
11:26>> Okay.
11:27>> Separate and together.
11:28>> Okay.
11:28>> So just going live like with the
11:30audience Twitch style, YouTube live
11:32style.
11:32>> And that was the book launch strategy,
11:33right? Was that your first t you've done
11:35live?
11:35>> No, I've done lives before, but that was
11:36obviously, you know, intentional. And
11:38then um and then interactive, which is
11:40not like
11:41>> sure there's chat interactive, but like
11:44>> how do I bring the audience in so that
11:46we can talk? That's why you see the uh
11:47first it was cash cows now at scale or
11:49fail, which is the show we just
11:50launched. Um and we're doing we're
11:52doubling down really hard on that
11:53because if you think in a world of AI,
11:54it's like what are the things that can't
11:55be faked? Yeah.
11:57>> It's people you like I want stakes. So
11:59for example, like if Mr. beast sto uh
12:02videos if it was not a real $5 million
12:05um or not a real Lamborghini, the stakes
12:07disappear. Now, to be fair, there's for
12:08sure other like a fictional story. The
12:10whole thing we know is fake and we're
12:11fine with it and the story is the story
12:13and it will crush that. But
12:15>> people still want stakes. Like right
12:16now, chess is more popular it's ever
12:18been, but like humans haven't been able
12:19to beat computers for a long time. And
12:21so there are definitely these some areas
12:22where we want the drama, we want the
12:24stakes, and so I don't think that's
12:25going to change at all. Uh, I love the
12:27series that you've been doing with uh,
12:30entrepreneurs that attend a conference.
12:31They stand up, they give you the P. It's
12:33so so good. I I just love all those
12:36>> live interactive.
12:36>> Live interactive.
12:38>> I'm interested to know how you think
12:40Legacy Media will fit into your media
12:43strategy going forward. Is it about
12:46prestige? Is there actually an audience
12:49there still? Because you're part of the
12:53New Guard. Yeah. and yet you signed with
12:55CIA. I'm sure you have the ability to
12:57walk into a large media company and get
13:01a TV show. Does that make sense? Is that
13:03something that's interesting to you?
13:04What would the value be to
13:06>> I think it's distribution that I don't
13:07have access to.
13:08>> Okay.
13:08>> So like I think one of the biggest like
13:10unspoken advantages that exists right
13:12now in media is Dave Ramsey has been
13:14murdering for 30 40 years because he has
13:17600 radio stations syndicated.
13:19Everyone's like radio's dead. It's like
13:21he's murdering it and it's because no
13:23one's looking. So like I'm I'm an equal
13:24opportunist when it comes to attention.
13:26And so even if it's less or more, if
13:28it's something that's completely in this
13:30other bubble over here that I have z I
13:32have no access to
13:32>> and the beauty is like there's still
13:34like closer to like there's no monopoly
13:36online, right? The feed is like you can
13:38just get anybody can log on and it's
13:40beautiful because anyone can log on. You
13:42don't have to have an audience. You can
13:43suddenly have an audience. Maybe it's
13:44one video, maybe it's a flash in the
13:46pan. But uh TV still like if you can
13:50figure out the right lane you have this
13:52sort of like differentiated access to
13:54attention and so it's like a different
13:56group of people and it's differentiated
13:58access that's not just like log on
14:00immediately have access
14:01>> and when something super pops like you
14:02look at all the real estate shows that
14:04have come out you've got selling sunset
14:05uh sir has his show like like there's a
14:09huge distribution base that they gain
14:10access to as a result of that all you
14:11have to do is look at those stars look
14:12at their look at their social media and
14:14I would say this is I say this lovingly
14:16it's pretty weak in terms of what
14:17they're doing, but their following.
14:19Exactly. But their following is still
14:20really strong because it's carried over.
14:22And so I'm like, if those people
14:23actually tried [laughter]
14:25>> on this side and had So I'm an and it's
14:27like, how do we get it all right? And
14:29that's kind of the the
14:30>> I think this is uh just underrated
14:32broadly for mostly tech people. They see
14:34the trend of the internet growing
14:36exponentially or e-commerce and they
14:38think,
14:39>> oh well, in a couple years like 100% of
14:41everything will be bought online. It's
14:43like, no, retail still exists and you
14:45know, for certain categories, you
14:46probably need to be in retail as well.
14:48And the same thing with, you know, the
14:50aging audiences on radio or TV, they're
14:53still there. They have they still watch.
14:55And so, uh, interesting. What about the
14:57level of production polish? I imagine
15:00that there's a tradeoff there. If you go
15:02with something uh more produced that's
15:05not just you opening your laptop and and
15:07yapping, right? uh you can get st you
15:10can you can get stuck in like the
15:12production quagmire if you're trying to
15:14build the Mona Lisa or or some
15:16incredible show at the same time there's
15:18prestige that comes with that there's a
15:20new level of authority uh how do you
15:22think about that trade-off
15:23>> I think it's [clears throat] barbo
15:24>> so it's either like make it the Mona
15:26Lisa and like play to win that game
15:29>> or you're in the volume game and the
15:31volume is just value per second and just
15:32trying to get as many of those seconds
15:33out as you possibly can and like I just
15:35think it's it's it's both and they're I
15:37think they serve They serve different
15:39objectives to your point of like you
15:40gain authority in different ways. It's
15:42definitely there's an element that it
15:43shifts the brand. There's access to new
15:45distribution and eyeballs. All of that
15:46happens over here. Yeah. But over here I
15:48think is where you get a lot of the
15:49closer to buying behavior, believe it or
15:51not. And so I see this as more top of
15:52funnel and this is like closer to middle
15:55and bottom. Obviously you can get
15:56discoverability. Like I said this is
15:57full stack but you get way closer to
15:59purchases on the site.
16:00>> Yeah. Is there can we offer you a diet
16:03coke? Can we offer you anything? Uh we
16:05have a variety of beverages if you'd
16:06like. What's a category of business that
16:09you haven't uh built or invested in uh
16:12that you're excited to at some point?
16:14>> I'm still looking for the the magical
16:16med spa.
16:17>> Um I think med spas are super I love
16:19pseudo medical.
16:21>> Um because you
16:22>> maxing
16:23>> Yeah. All of it. Well, think about it.
16:25Like there's this aging population that
16:27has more money than anyone else. They
16:28don't want to age. They see the Brian
16:30Johnson's like it is the zeitgeist of
16:33right now of like I want to live
16:34forever. I want to look beautiful and
16:36young forever and they have all the
16:38money. And so if you look at the demand
16:39side of that, it's huge. And look at the
16:42supply. Med spas are are t they're still
16:45wildly understaffed. And I know this
16:46because I see business owners every
16:48single week. And so I've like there's a
16:49handful of categories right now that
16:50I'll meet business owners and they're
16:52doing better than they should be.
16:54>> Like there's some business owners.
16:55>> I met a I met a med spa owner when I
16:57first moved to LA. They had started
16:59their business and within a year they
17:01were doing like 1.2 2 million of like
17:03like straight free cash flow [laughter]
17:05off of like $400,000 invested. Yeah.
17:08>> And it was like actually unbelievable.
17:10Yes. The entrepreneur in this case was
17:11like very talented
17:12>> cuz he watches this and he's like, "Oh
17:14yeah, he's great though."
17:15>> No, but this was this was, you know,
17:16years ago. But yeah, I'm I'm surprised
17:18that also like differentiated shots at
17:20that category because if you look at
17:22like I would expect Brian Johnson to do
17:24something like this, right? because
17:25there's a lot of people that follow him
17:27and he has, you know, as many maybe he
17:30probably has like 10 times as many like
17:32critics as he does people that are like,
17:34I'm going to do exactly what he's going
17:37to do. But that group of people that
17:38will just like copy what he's doing is
17:41actually pretty pretty meaningful,
17:43right? And souge meds boss, you go into
17:45these like high ticket kind of like
17:47procedures, treatments, things like
17:49that. To me, that's where I think he
17:51could uh really start to print. He had
17:531,200 people apply for his million-doll
17:55per year thing.
17:57>> 1,200. Do that math
17:59>> real fast, right?
18:00>> That's a lot of money.
18:01>> And then there was a $60,000 per year
18:02thing that was underneath and multiply
18:04that by just probably an order of
18:05magnitude greater.
18:06>> Yeah.
18:07>> Wildly underestimated. So you take that
18:09and then you have these 10,000 or 15,000
18:11med spas that exist. It's like it's
18:12nothing. And the it's super fragmented
18:15because still no one's really like
18:16gobbled that up. Well, not that that
18:18I've seen. Um, and to your point of like
18:20when I asked them like, "Hey, so what
18:22are you doing right now to get your 6
18:23million a year topline and you know 40%
18:25margins and they're like we kind of
18:27just, you know, we just opened up and
18:29put the sign up and you just did a good
18:31job and and you know, you know, people
18:33customers tell customers like you know
18:34that's not how it works."
18:36>> Yeah. [laughter]
18:36>> And it's not how it's going to work
18:37forever.
18:38>> They're just in a completely uh supply
18:40constraint environment. They just don't
18:41know it because when you're on the
18:41inside, you don't know. You're like,
18:42"Oh, I'm doing a good job." is part of
18:44the problem that a lot of the med spa
18:47like founders get a little bit too
18:49sucked into the biohacker nature of
18:51these things and it feels a little bit
18:53too scientific.
18:53>> I don't I don't think it's that at all.
18:55I think it's like it's it's so
18:57shortterm. A lot of the med spas I think
19:00are like very short-term cosmetic
19:02driven. They're like how do we make you
19:03look good for the next 3 to 6 months
19:06>> which is not necessarily what makes you
19:08look good over the next 3 to six years
19:10>> or over the next few decades. Mhm.
19:13>> So that's at least
19:14>> generally
19:15>> there's a slice for Johnson to attack
19:17which he obviously he's a very smart
19:19dude.
19:20>> Yeah.
19:20>> How would you attack the problem? Roll
19:22up, find a bunch of operators, put them
19:24together, start start something from
19:26scratch.
19:26>> I mean, yeah, I mean the role model
19:28would make the most sense. Um the thing
19:30is is like denovo is not that expensive.
19:32Sure. Yeah. Um, and if you are a good
19:35operator, you can go in and just smash.
19:37Yeah. Yeah. Because when when when
19:38people are coming in, when you're when
19:40your CAC's zero and your your gross
19:42margins on these services are absurd,
19:43the the actual difficulty in that model
19:45right now is getting the talent for the
19:47technicians because
19:48>> because it's supply constrained at the
19:50business level, it's also supply
19:51constrained at the talent level. And so,
19:53>> and it's so easy for them to open up a
19:55door.
19:55>> Exactly. They hang their own shindle.
19:56They take the customers and like that's
19:57the issue that those companies have. And
19:59so, um, the key to really winning that
20:01game is having a really good talent
20:03strategy for
20:04>> how do I make their lifestyles? How do I
20:06how do I compensate them as directly as
20:07possible on what they're generating and
20:09get it to the point where my godfather
20:11is in wealth management and he has a
20:13really cool model. He's managed several
20:15billion dollars and he but he started at
20:16nothing and built it all himself. And
20:18his big thing was heyo um and his big
20:21[clears throat] thing was uh basically
20:23letting the other person have a little
20:24more. Yeah. And so it's like he'll he's
20:26like I'll give you 51
20:27>> so that you don't ever want to leave.
20:29>> Uh but then you do all the work.
20:30>> Yeah. It probably looks more like a law
20:32firm over
20:32>> 100%. It's more of a partner pro. And to
20:34be fair, if you've been to any of these
20:36uh I would say it's a high touch
20:37service. They're they're not loyal to
20:39the business. They're loyal to the girl
20:40who does her injections or does their
20:41lasers or whatever.
20:42>> And so it's like we just got to tie
20:44those people in like a partner firm.
20:46>> Yeah.
20:46>> Uh speaking of Brian Johnson, do you
20:49care at all about living forever?
20:52>> I don't even think about it. I expect to
20:54die. Um I would prefer not to, but like
20:57>> I'm good. I'm good either way. Like I I
21:00think Marcus really has said um the the
21:02old and the young lose the same thing
21:03when they die, which is the present.
21:06>> That's all we got.
21:06>> So yeah,
21:07>> I love it.
21:08>> I'm a similar way. I want to have a full
21:10life, but I never at any point in my
21:13life have I thought, "Oh, it would just
21:15be the best thing ever if I could never
21:18die."
21:18>> Yeah.
21:19Uh [clears throat]
21:21going back to sort of core audience
21:25>> I think of like the sweet spot is like
21:28mid-market owner operator founder types
21:31is that roughly after
21:32>> yeah 1 to 50 million
21:32>> 1 to 50 million
21:34>> what is the expansion opportunity? Is
21:36there a business for you where you're
21:39giving keynotes at Fortune 500
21:40companies, motivational speaking for
21:43like, you know, middle managers at
21:45companies [laughter]
21:46>> or or or is it or is it getting people
21:48on the founder journey who are leaving
21:51companies, breaking out into their own
21:53and going from zero to 1 million? What
21:55do you think?
21:56>> Well, from an expansion opportunity,
21:57like I think there's still plenty of
21:58people in the 150 million who don't know
21:59who I am and haven't consumed my stuff
22:01or whatever. So, like
22:02>> plenty there. Um, but the like if I just
22:05focus there, I get the zero to a
22:07million.
22:07>> Sure.
22:08>> Anyways, because if you're helping
22:10people go from one to 10, people are
22:11like, he could probably help me go from
22:11one zero to one, right? Um, and so
22:14>> I'm super broadly zooming out. I'm a big
22:18fan of capitalism and I think as many
22:19people as possible participating in a
22:22free market is a good thing for the
22:24country and for that person uh and for
22:26everyone else that they serve. And so I
22:28would like as many people to taste that
22:29that uh that forbidden fruit as humanly
22:31possible. And so I try and make it as
22:32simple and as easy as possible for
22:34people to get started.
22:34>> Yeah. What mistakes do you see
22:37entrepreneurs making around AI? I'll
22:39give you one.
22:41>> The the small business owners that I
22:43know that get too in like into AI and
22:47maybe they're listening to podcasts and
22:49they're on X and and and uh we're
22:51>> orange glasses ready to go. [laughter]
22:53>> Um
22:54>> they'll like they won't just apply AI to
22:57their business. they'll like start a new
22:59company that's like AI oriented and uh
23:03and I just think that's like the worst
23:04possible mistake because they end up
23:06doing something that like the model just
23:07does well and it's like okay so you're
23:09going to compete just directly with like
23:11all the biggest companies in the world
23:13on something that you don't even know as
23:15well as the biggest companies in the
23:16world when you could just like and so
23:19and so there's like this like
23:20>> grass is greener thing happening where
23:24instead of seeing like oh I can just
23:25make you know these parts of my business
23:27even if it's just 10% more efficient. Uh
23:29I can I can, you know, keep compounding.
23:31But what are you seeing?
23:33>> All right. Uh one, they're using AI to
23:36do dumb things really fast. Um so
23:38they're doing the wrong stuff with AI.
23:39So even like they were like a small
23:41business owner that wasn't making money
23:42now still doesn't make money but has a
23:44lot more token cost than they did
23:46before. Number two, they're
23:47>> meeting meeting summaries. Like I've
23:49never been successful. Like I I've never
23:52>> That was my bottleneck. I just need a
23:53>> summary. No, but but it's one of those
23:55things like like I think it's cool that
23:56these apps exist. I've never uh I've
23:59never needed to take notes to achieve my
24:03goals in [laughter] business. Like I'm
24:04just like, okay, what's the next most
24:06important thing to do? I'm going to do
24:07that thing. Okay, what's the next most
24:08important thing? I'm going to do that
24:10thing. I've never I've never been like,
24:12okay, like what did we say? I mean, and
24:14I've worked in like small companies,
24:15right? I've only only been a founder. Um
24:17but but that's just such an example of
24:19like yeah, my meeting note system is
24:21like so dialed. I'm like okay like how
24:23much money have you made today?
24:24>> Okay. [laughter]
24:26>> So I'll say to to to counterans answer
24:28the two things that I think are the
24:29right way to use it which is number one
24:32how do we take every [clears throat]
24:33function of the business
24:35>> take it from an org chart based thinking
24:37to workflow based thinking and then
24:39saying okay this editor used to be
24:40involved in these six workflows. uh we
24:43actually only need him to be now
24:44involved in three of those workflows and
24:46the other three we can have AI do the
24:48vast majority of the work and so all of
24:49a sudden we can three 5x output uh and
24:51so revenue per headcount on service
24:53based businesses should decrease which
24:54means margin should go up now there's
24:55this great opportunity window right now
24:57where prices aren't really going to
24:58adjust for a minute which means that
25:00your margins get absolutely stupid and
25:02so like you should do that so there's
25:04two flavors of that one is the uh the
25:07like I'm I'm an advocate of like don't
25:09tell people you're using AI [laughter]
25:11like go have service business that
25:13people think is all humans in the
25:14background and then charge human prices
25:17and then have costs of tech and have the
25:20scale and operational or the the lack of
25:21operational drag of tech. That's the
25:23good game, right? Or take it department
25:25by department so you can just become
25:27more efficient at at it, right? So those
25:28are I think the two good ways of doing
25:30it to your point of like well uh being
25:33distracted is still a terrible idea as a
25:34founder and so this has just made it so
25:37much easier for people to get distracted
25:38because like I could start a business on
25:39this or that or that and it's like yeah
25:41but you still have your dry cleaning
25:41store dude like
25:42>> what are we going like and to be fair if
25:44you have if you want to be a
25:45trillionaire you are going to need to
25:46get into bleeding edge tech and AI but
25:48you probably should get rid of your dry
25:49cleaning store and go all in. And so
25:50they're trying to juggle two plates and
25:52not really succeeding it either.
25:54>> Totally. Totally. Yeah. the the dry
25:56cleaning example is like use AI to
25:58constantly be monitoring every possible
26:01>> new space that you could expand into
26:03within your area or in in the county
26:06over etc. and just do that, do that, do
26:08that. But it's like grass is greener.
26:09Like oh what if I what if I made the
26:12operating system the agent operating
26:14system for dry cleaners. It's like no
26:17just like do the thing.
26:18>> Just win at dry cleaning because it's
26:19also so much easier to compete against
26:21other dry cleaning owners cuz you for
26:23sure know that they're not adopting it
26:24the right way because they're doing the
26:25same thing with orange glasses and and
26:27banging out their their replicated
26:28software, you know, like fine.
26:31There's also like a fair amount of AI
26:33that a lot of small businesses are
26:34probably getting for free just in the
26:35sense of like if you have a CRM that's
26:38sending emails like that company has
26:40probably adopted AI and is doing
26:43somewhat smarter targeting and so you
26:45might not need to go and build your own
26:47CRM that sends emails that are
26:49customized for every customer because
26:51like you get it for free out of the box.
26:53>> There's also this this tendency to
26:55rebuild the existing software that
26:57you're using. So it's like, oh, I've
26:59got, you know, I don't I don't need to
27:00pay Calendarly, you know, $9 a month
27:04when I It's just like, oh, so instead
27:05you're going to use 200 hours to try and
27:08recode what they just did and it breaks
27:10all the time.
27:11>> If there's an error, then you lose nine
27:12grand,
27:13>> but like that is what I'm saying all the
27:15time.
27:15>> Yeah, we did have a uh Ben on our team
27:17here was having had been we he does uh a
27:20lot of the automation that we do around
27:21like captioning videos. he had reached a
27:24point where all the existing software
27:25didn't do the thing that he needed to do
27:27that he built something yesterday that
27:28now works and that it's saving him a
27:30bunch of time. So there is the there are
27:31these edge cases
27:32>> very narrow point solutions for us
27:34>> I think specifically flip live streams
27:37very quickly with captions with our ads
27:40added on at the end and it saved a bunch
27:42of time in Premiere
27:43>> in media it's huge right like we're
27:45using it like I'll give you two examples
27:46we're using on the ad side what we did
27:48was we built this gigantic data
27:49repository which by the way I think
27:50that's what the big the huge gap that
27:52small business owners are missing is
27:53they don't have a data layer and so it's
27:54like if you want to have anything that's
27:55unique it starts with data if you want
27:57to build any kind of AI right that's
27:58actually useful
27:59>> and So one is like how do we build a
28:01repository of all the data that we have
28:02in terms of sales copy, testimonials,
28:05videos, collateral, all of that in one
28:07place and then have that get piece meal
28:10out into ads
28:11>> um in real time and then also match
28:13those to dynamic landing pages. So we
28:14have that live right now at
28:15acquisition.com in terms of how we're
28:16doing it. So we have several hundred
28:18landing pages that are getting pushed
28:19against several hundred different uh ad
28:21ads that are going out all being done
28:24programmatically with AI which is really
28:26like we're we're not a we are not an AI
28:28company. Um, but we use the out of
28:30it. And so I think that those are like
28:32those are the the the on the paid side
28:33where it's really really exciting. Yeah.
28:35>> And then on the on the organic side,
28:37it's like right now we started Mormo
28:38Mosy, which is like the highlights
28:39channel.
28:39>> Yeah.
28:40>> Um, and I've got one one cracked out
28:43teenager um who's doing who's putting
28:46out 20 20 clips a day
28:49>> on his own.
28:50>> No, no,
28:51>> he's doing five five mids. So like we
28:53call mids, which is like call it like
28:55three to 10 minutes clips. And then he's
28:57putting out I think 15 or something like
28:59that shorts per day on his own. And so
29:01he just takes all the time if I'm
29:03talking to business owners takes it,
29:04runs it through, it highlights the
29:06points from there. He just basically
29:08just makes sure that it's good, inserts
29:10automatically the the the CTAs that we
29:12want and then boom, it's all in one.
29:13>> What's your philosophy on uh bringing
29:15the cracked out teenager inhouse uh
29:18remote inperson versus agency versus
29:22platform where clipping can happen. a
29:24discord that just you hear about these
29:26discords with like 200 clippers and they
29:28all get paid on a CPM basis randomly. It
29:30feels deeply chaotic, but if you can
29:32harness that, maybe it's powerful, but
29:34what's your philosophy?
29:35>> Uh, yes.
29:36>> Okay,
29:36>> that's 100% my philosophy. Okay.
29:38>> Um, but like are you an agency fan or
29:40in-house? It's like I want three
29:42agencies working for me and an in-house
29:43team. Like it's all all the impressions
29:45are out there. Like got to catch them
29:46all. Like go get them. You know what I
29:47mean? And same thing with um like if I I
29:50pay a lot of attention, especially on
29:51the paid side, to e-commerce. I think
29:52they're almost always the most cutting
29:54edge when it well actually porn's the
29:55most cutting edge right before that is
29:57I'm being real right e-commerce is
29:59second most cutting edge um and those
30:01guys are all completely the ones who are
30:03crushing it going to zero to 100 million
30:05plus and call it like 12 to 24 months
30:06like all the companies that are running
30:08the same playbook is decentralized
30:11um UGC with kind of like AI backend for
30:14screening for control and then just
30:15letting it rip.
30:16>> Yeah.
30:17>> And there's obviously some
30:18considerations for brand, right? Which
30:20is like how do we make sure but
30:21>> Yeah. But if the raw footage is
30:23>> and you only put money behind the things
30:24that are exactly
30:25>> Yeah, it's probably pretty safe.
30:26>> Do you expect to uh integrate parenting
30:30content into your universe?
30:34>> I don't think everything that's not
30:36business has not been like super
30:37deliberate. I just don't hold back. So
30:38if someone asks a question about it,
30:40I'll just answer honestly. Um
30:42>> but everything I try to think like the
30:43middle spoke is still I'll use this.
30:45There we go. The middle spoke is still
30:46business. And then it's you know how am
30:48I seeing parenting through the lens of
30:49business as a business owner if you
30:51want.
30:51>> [laughter]
30:52>> How do I
30:52>> exclusive? We got it over there.
30:55>> Like how do I see like my my
30:56relationship with Ila, but it's we're
30:58business partners, but we're also
30:59married. So, it's it's always I try to
31:00keep that at the middle.
31:01>> Um, but some people are like, I just
31:02want, you know, with with Taylor and and
31:06Travis pairing up.
31:08>> Hopefully, they have children. You guys
31:10having children. I think we could see a
31:12real baby boom.
31:13>> Yeah.
31:14>> Uh, but uh we need to get it out there.
31:16>> That's what we're doing. The Lord's
31:17work. Uh, can you walk me through how to
31:21sort of evolve a brand through what I
31:24expected to be more difficult, but you
31:27executed it very well. The headline was,
31:28"I have nothing to sell you. Now you
31:30sell books. I people want to buy stuff
31:32from you. Obviously, you sold a ton of
31:34books." Uh, but there's probably like a,
31:37"Oh, I wasn't expecting this." How did
31:39you work through that? Because I think
31:41there's a lot of companies where the
31:43business model evolves and they need to
31:45change their communication strategy and
31:47they need to deliver
31:48>> like an lab is like we're not going to
31:50compete with [laughter]
31:52>> what it's crazy asking for a friend
31:55here.
31:56>> Um [laughter]
31:58I'm I'm such an like I I think the
32:00absolute simplest media strategy for any
32:02kind of change is the whole truth.
32:04>> Yeah.
32:04>> Not halftruth. And I think if you just
32:06manage that so it's like I didn't have
32:08anything to sell.
32:09>> Yeah. And I was like, "Now I do."
32:11[laughter]
32:11>> That's so simple. I love it.
32:14>> That's amazing. Wow.
32:16>> And And if if you don't want to buy it,
32:19>> here's the great thing about capitalism.
32:20It's voluntary exchange, so you can just
32:22keep getting the free
32:23>> Yep.
32:24>> All good.
32:24>> There's tons of it. There's tons of free
32:25stuff.
32:25>> Tons of free stuff. And we still
32:26continue to do that. If you choose to
32:28want more help with stuff in person
32:30where we're limited.
32:31>> Yeah.
32:32>> Spend money and we'd love to have you.
32:34>> Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. What is
32:36the term for like the economic ladder
32:39that you help build help companies
32:40build? I feel like the first time I was
32:42exposed to this with Jaco Willink, you
32:44you get to the end of the show and it's
32:45like if you want to spend a dollar with
32:48me, I got something for you. If you want
32:49to spend $100 with me, I got something
32:50for you. If you want to spend $1,000,
32:52you can come to my conference, $10,000,
32:54I'll hang out with you for a weekend,
32:56$100,000. And that ladder of price
32:58discrimination is a hard for a lot of
33:00businesses where it's not token based
33:02pricing where it's just as you know uh
33:04consumption based usage of the product
33:06but actually getting to the place where
33:07look if you have a billionaire in your
33:09audience who loves what you're doing how
33:11do you actually get an offer to them
33:13that's the right size. Um I'm a so
33:17customers are super fractal right and so
33:19you can absolutely make the same amount
33:22from 1% of your customers as you can
33:23from the other 99 and have half your
33:25revenue from one. Um, and typically like
33:27at each level you have another double.
33:28So it's like if you're at, let's say, a
33:30$100 a month price point, there's going
33:32to be another double of revenue at a
33:34$500 a month price point. Another double
33:36of revenue at $2,500 a month. Uh,
33:38another double at, you know, whatever
33:40five or 10 times that is going to be.
33:41And so, um, I think making offers
33:44available to people, that is where
33:46business owners like struggle. They feel
33:47weird about it and they sell out of
33:48their own wallet
33:49>> when it's just like just make them
33:51available and state the facts and tell
33:53the truth. So, it's like if we had one
33:54big plaque in our our marketing team,
33:57it's state the fashion and tell the
33:58truth, but it's the whole truth, which
33:59is, hey, we're going to do this thing.
34:02It's absurdly expensive and it's only
34:04for somebody who if you're reading this
34:05and you're like, oh, that's not absurdly
34:06expensive for me. It's for you. And if
34:08you read that and you're like, oh my
34:09god, I'm offended by that. Good news. We
34:11have less offensive prices that are
34:13lower. And for that, we do all these
34:15other things that you're going to get
34:16way more people who are going to be
34:17doing it with you. But if you're a
34:18special snowflake, we have special
34:19snowflake prices. I just don't think and
34:21to be fair, you're not going to make
34:23everyone happy. Like there's always
34:24going to be trolls. There's always going
34:25to be people. But like I think you have
34:26to make the decision of like do I care
34:28more about the people I help or the
34:30people who are angry at me for trying to
34:31help?
34:33>> What's your international strategy? I
34:36imagine the content goes everywhere.
34:38Yeah. At the same time, you can't be
34:39flying around the world constantly. How
34:42do you think about different countries?
34:43I struggle a lot with international um
34:45because
34:46>> the business side of me is like I don't
34:49want them to clog up our funnels.
34:51>> Oh
34:52>> yeah.
34:52>> And like have people who can't speak
34:53English that well talking to the team
34:55and it's just like it's like we don't
34:56have Italian versions of whatever.
34:58>> Yeah.
34:59>> Yeah. Right. So I struggle with that
35:01part. Um on the other hand, we're taking
35:03steps now to have something to, you
35:07know, serve that audience. That being
35:08said, I don't think I'm going to be
35:09traveling internationally anytime soon.
35:10Um, but having called services and
35:12offerings for that audience, I'm I'm
35:14more inclined to be able to.
35:16>> Yeah. How are you thinking about scaling
35:18acquisition.com, the investing side of
35:20the business, raising outside capital,
35:22scaling up the fund? We talked to VCs
35:25all day who are just like bigger and
35:26bigger mega funds.
35:28>> Yeah, we're like 30 days away from
35:31closing a gigantic deal. So, um,
35:33>> come back.
35:34>> Yeah, it'll [laughter] be great.
35:36Uh but like uh I would say that what
35:39Acquisition.com was when we started was
35:41a cash flow-based family office that
35:43Leila and I ran and that was honestly
35:45the chillest my life has ever been. I
35:47was also bored to tears. Um but like a
35:49good life and probably might have been
35:50better for the season I'm about to get
35:52into.
35:53>> Um but it became apparent after we did
35:55something like 24 deals in 24 months and
35:57these were not like VC style deals. They
35:59were like real, you know, purchases. um
36:02that you know portfolio theory rules and
36:05of the 24 like you know threeish were
36:07like the really good companies and then
36:09on top of that there was like our brand
36:12blew up in this time period and so we
36:14had to basically have this recalculation
36:15of like okay well
36:17>> these are all the resources we have at
36:18our disposal. We have cash but like this
36:20brand is getting really big even almost
36:22greater than the cash that we have
36:24access to just our own money. Yeah.
36:25>> And so then it was like, okay, well, we
36:27started the advisory practice in January
36:29of 24 and I think we did 36 million in a
36:33year
36:34>> just on that one unit. And so I was
36:35like, okay,
36:36>> founder. [laughter]
36:38>> And so and then obviously, you know, the
36:40book launch uh last year we did, you
36:43know, 105 and we still had the advisory
36:45practice which grew the next year. And
36:47so, um, I've we basically we stopped
36:50doing, um, deals that we were just
36:54investors in,
36:55>> and now it's brand plus capital plus
36:57work. And I'd rather have fewer eggs
36:59that we're going to get huge outsized
37:00returns on. Like school, uh, was junior
37:03of 24 as well.
37:05>> Um, but school has, you know, we have 30
37:07million users now.
37:08>> Um, and, you know, we have a billion
37:10plus GMV. Like, it's it's a very big
37:12platform. And so like I you know
37:15Zuckerberg didn't have Airbnbs as a side
37:17hustle, you know what I mean? [laughter]
37:18>> Yeah.
37:19>> And so it's just like if you have if you
37:20have a stallion like run it. And so I
37:23think that's where we're at where it's
37:24like we're being really really specific.
37:26I'm I'm willing to put more capital at
37:27risk now because I'm going to put my
37:29brand behind it um and make sure the
37:31product's exceptional. And that's I mean
37:32the bar is the product has to be
37:34insane.
37:34>> Yeah.
37:35>> And then we bring distribution and cash
37:37and like that's when it's like the the
37:39holy trinity.
37:39>> Yeah. Uh Jeremy, our friend Jeremy has
37:42this idea that that everyone is like pre
37:45or postfall,
37:46>> where are you?
37:48>> You familiar with this concept? No. So
37:50yeah, uh he he says you can instantly
37:52tell if someone has had their downfall,
37:54had their darkest moment, you know,
37:56they've been through the ringer. They
37:58got chewed up and spit out by Silicon
38:00Valley or private equity or whatever
38:02industry they were in. And you can tell
38:04that this person is now they've they've
38:07been humbled and so they're ready to
38:09build back appropriately, not get over
38:12their skis. And then you can also see
38:14the founders. It becomes a massive
38:15advantage. Then you also see the
38:17founders that are sort of prefall and
38:19they're doing a lot of things that
38:20you're like
38:20>> yeah this is like the 24 year old who's
38:23like on a crazy terror has raised money
38:27back they're spending it and then
38:29suddenly like you know the business
38:31stops growing like execs are leaving
38:34things like that but I'm wondering if
38:36you there was like this like crucible
38:37moment for you before this latest run
38:40that you've been on. I two answers. One
38:42is I'll reject the premise, but um just
38:45because I don't like
38:47>> to say it's super binary, right? Like
38:49people are either before or after the
38:50hard thing in their life. It's like I
38:52think people have lots of hardship that
38:53happens at different seasons in their
38:54life. Like I've lost everything two
38:55times.
38:56>> Um like twice.
38:59>> Um but like that then it's like, okay,
39:00am I now postfall? It's like, well, I
39:02mean, I I hope that nothing bad ever
39:05happens to me again, but I'm pretty sure
39:06bad shit's going to happen to me again.
39:08Um, and so I just commit to not
39:10stopping.
39:11>> Yeah.
39:12>> Controlling the controllable, and that's
39:13basically all I can do.
39:14>> Do you have a good answer to pathy
39:18advice for young people? We got asked
39:20this on a podcast recently and it was
39:22like the closing question. It was like,
39:24you got one minute. And I was like, I
39:26could you could talk for hours. Like,
39:28where do you even start? How do you
39:29think about packaging information like
39:32that? And I actually want your your your
39:34advice for young people. If you have one
39:35thing,
39:36>> it's so hard to like like work hard.
39:39It's like good general advice, but then
39:40I I' I've been in points in my life and
39:42I know people that are like working hard
39:44on like the dumbest thing
39:46>> and like that ends up being the worst
39:47thing that they can do. [laughter]
39:49>> Well, think so. What you accomplish is a
39:53direct output of the volume of activity
39:56that you do multiplied by the leverage
39:58of the activity itself. And so you have
40:01to pick the right boat. You have to pick
40:02the right opportunity based on your
40:04goals. Some people only want to make a
40:06million dollars. Some people want to
40:07make 10. Some people want to make 100.
40:08Some make a trillion. Like everyone has
40:09different. So like the the leverage that
40:11what's interesting about that is that
40:12you just get to pick. And it's going to
40:14be hard no matter what. I think Nal said
40:15this thing where it was like it's really
40:17hard to build a restaurant that's really
40:18successful. It's also really hard to
40:20build a you know billion dollar unicorn.
40:22They're both going to be 80hour weeks.
40:23And so you know and Stuart Schwarzman
40:26from Black uh Blackstone said like you
40:28might as well play big because level 10
40:30talent has only attracted level 10
40:31opportunities. It's harder to attract
40:33good people for bad opportunity because
40:34then you got to do it all yourself.
40:36Which is why I have so much respect for
40:37some of the guys like um uh Peggy and
40:39Andrew Chung who are Mr. and Mrs. Panda,
40:41Panda Express. Yeah,
40:42>> dude. Deck of billionaires selling
40:44selling chicken.
40:45>> Passing royalty,
40:46>> dude. Like [laughter]
40:48>> but like like so much respect for that
40:50level of grit. 45 years selling orange
40:52chicken, right? Um all that to say,
40:57>> you will pick based on the level of
40:59awareness that you have at that time.
41:00Where it gets more difficult is that you
41:02learn more as you go and you
41:03realize that there are higher leverage
41:05opportunities. The difficulty is that if
41:07you're four years into one thing, year
41:09five of an existing thing that you have
41:11four years of reps on versus year one of
41:13even a slightly better opportunity, you
41:15have to compare year one versus year
41:17five of the other one, not year one
41:18versus year one because time you can't
41:20get back. And so that's where the
41:22compounding of getting better at
41:23something at some point does have
41:24outsized returns even it's an inferior
41:26vehicle.
41:27>> Yeah. talk about that idea of uh you're
41:29an A+ uh operator, but you're going
41:33after a C++ opportunity. How do you
41:36assess your opportunity? Because I feel
41:38like I run into people who are working
41:41on A+ opportunities and everyone will
41:43say that's the dumbest idea ever. You're
41:44going to put couches, it's going to be
41:46called Airbnb. That makes no sense,
41:47right? And then it's a boom and it's
41:49huge. And then simultaneously you can be
41:51working on a terrible idea, but if you
41:53went and got, you know, a puff piece in
41:55Business Insider in Forbes, it's like
41:57your parents are like, "Oh, it's
41:58amazing. Good job."
41:59>> Even if you're grinding and it's not
42:01going anywhere.
42:01>> Yeah. The way the way I look at it is
42:03like in every single category there's an
42:05amazing business. And the funny thing
42:07the funny thing with everyone thinks
42:09about like Airbnb as like the dumb idea
42:11when it's like it wasn't a dumb idea. It
42:13just seemed ridiculous. And that's very
42:15different than uh like somebody that
42:17like chooses apparel as a category which
42:20everyone knows is like structurally
42:23really really really challenging really
42:25really competitive. Yes. There's like a
42:27hundred companies in the world that
42:29absolutely print and if you're one of
42:30those companies then you're then you're
42:32great. But some people like choose
42:33apparel and then 3 years in then they
42:36understand the competitive dynamics and
42:37they're like I'm in a shitty business. I
42:39think that's very different than like
42:41choosing the thing that seems silly even
42:43though Airbnb at this point is now
42:46>> like the best business, right? Massive
42:48scale, network effects, uh a great
42:51product, uh all these things. But
42:53>> I think if you look at the marketplace
42:55that you're trying to get into, there's
42:57usually going to be a bolus of
42:58businesses at some part and that gives
43:00you some idea of where the difficulty in
43:02that business is. And so like for
43:03example, if you're going to get into I
43:04want to start a social media marketing
43:06agency, it's like well there's a bullis
43:08at the bottom and then very few who
43:10ascend to the top and it's because it's
43:11really really difficult operationally
43:13because if you're really good at
43:14marketing then you can usually make
43:16enough money to not work at one of those
43:17types of businesses and so you're
43:19constantly uh you have to be so good at
43:21ops and so good at marketing and
43:22branding and sales in order to just
43:24slowly get these bigger and bigger
43:26accounts and you kind of level up the
43:27types of customers that you can go
43:28after. Um because all those businesses
43:30go after SMBs and SMBs are inherently
43:32volatile and so even if you do a great
43:33job, they'll still cancel and so it's
43:35just a turn and burn business.
43:36>> Yeah. Not not to mention your flagship
43:38client will eventually say like, "Hey,
43:39we're spending $100,000 on this service.
43:41We could hire five people that are the
43:44best in the world at what they do and
43:45they'll just focus on us. Let's do that
43:47instead."
43:48>> Yeah. Like there are there there are
43:49impediments to that business scaling.
43:51Can you do it? Absolutely. But I'm just
43:53a huge advocate of just like just look
43:54at what the biggest version of that
43:56business looks like because this is
43:58obviously a more tech forward show. But
44:00like the vast majority of businesses are
44:01not tech businesses,
44:03>> right? There's like HVAC businesses all
44:05over the place. There's pool cleaners
44:06there. Like there's a lot of you
44:07can do for money.
44:08>> And so I like unless you want to be a
44:11trillionaire like you can be a
44:13billionaire in just about any boring
44:14business. You look you look at um what's
44:16his name? Is it Brad Jacobs?
44:18>> Yeah.
44:18>> Yeah. Yeah. actually six times over make
44:21a few billion.
44:22>> Yeah. A few And then he has a sequel. A
44:23few more billion.
44:24>> Few more [laughter] billions.
44:25>> You guys are kind of You guys are very
44:26Yeah. I never I never thought of you as
44:29>> home building materials.
44:30>> Yeah. There's just a lot of businesses
44:31out there. And so it just depends on
44:32like what the goal is. But any business
44:35done for like zooming all the way out,
44:38if you do one thing for 40 years and you
44:40get better every year, you're going to
44:41dominate. And so on some level
44:44going after the tech opportunity though
44:46there there for sure are the big the big
44:47mega winners.
44:49It's easier to compete against the
44:51people who are going after the pool
44:53cleaners. There's just there's like
44:55there's less sophisticated players.
44:56There's less capital. Um and so having a
44:59little bit of street smarts and a lot of
45:00work ethic can get you pretty far there.
45:03And you look at that compared to like
45:04you know you look at the guy who's doing
45:067 million a year topline, $2.5 million
45:08in bottom line. Doesn't really work that
45:09much. has a crew of guys.
45:12>> Is that the life you want?
45:13>> Yeah.
45:13>> Cuz there's nothing like there's nothing
45:15wrong with that. And so I think it's
45:17deciding first to the younger guy like
45:19what do I want
45:20>> or what is an acceptable outcome? And
45:22then what of the many many paths that
45:25are ahead of me have the highest
45:26likelihood of me getting there. And then
45:28once you pick that path, know that if
45:30you stick with that path for 20 years,
45:32the likelihood that you fail is
45:33basically zero. As long as you have some
45:35feedback loop for improvement.
45:36>> That's basically it. Figure out where
45:38you want to go. Find the highest likely
45:40path of getting there. And then do not
45:42let the opinions of strangers or people
45:44who do not have what you want dissuade
45:46you from getting there.
45:47>> Yeah. What do you think about uh there's
45:50this odd trend of uh entrepreneurship
45:54like uh I don't know like mindset stuff
45:57where you got to be doing sauna, cold
45:59plunge, meditation. And I feel like that
46:02only makes sense once you're successful.
46:04And then you look at the successful
46:05people and you're like, "Well, yeah, the
46:06rich guy has a sauna." But what was he
46:09doing when he was broke? He was waking
46:10up and getting on his laptop. But yeah,
46:12how have you reacted?
46:12>> Yeah, rich people fly private, so I
46:14should fly private [laughter] in order
46:15to get rich, right? It's it's
46:17conflation. Um,
46:19>> okay. So, at the most basic level, you
46:22have to do work.
46:23>> Yeah.
46:24>> And if it is not the work, then you have
46:26to have a very strong argument that is
46:27going to increase your output per unit
46:29of time.
46:30>> Period. And so if you have a morning
46:32routine and that's the first day when
46:34you're probably the cognitive
46:36energy,
46:37>> you would have to have an incredible Do
46:39you curse on this show?
46:39>> We don't.
46:40>> Okay. A credible darn argument for
46:42[laughter]
46:43our kids are our kids are watching, but
46:45you know, by all means,
46:46>> you have to have an incredible argument
46:47for why that's going to improve your
46:48output. And so like the morning routine
46:50that I'm a big advocate of is you wake
46:52up and then you caffeinate.
46:54>> You shut off your your distractions and
46:56then you begin the work. and how how
46:58much you can compress the time from
46:59waking to beginning work.
47:01>> Sure.
47:01>> Is the ideal and you are the freshest
47:03whenever you are postleep.
47:05>> Yep.
47:07>> And so I like if you want to do that
47:10stuff I'm like by all means go for it.
47:11But like just understand like you can
47:13>> plenty people have hobbies. You can have
47:15hobbies. Like there's nothing wrong with
47:16that. It's just is this actually and you
47:18also didn't need to work 16 hours a day
47:20in order to get what you want. I I have
47:21plenty of friends who are super
47:22successful and don't work that much.
47:23Now, did they work 16 hours a day to get
47:26there? Probably. And so, this is the
47:28modeling the rise, not the plateau. And
47:29what's difficult is the plateau is
47:31what's more visible.
47:31>> Sure.
47:32>> What do you think there? And then you
47:33can make the content, right? No one's
47:35making this part.
47:36>> No. No.
47:36>> What do you think about uh people sort
47:40of like staging out their sort of career
47:44as an entrepreneur? I was talking to
47:46>> a friend of mine who has a something
47:50like an agency business in fashion. He's
47:53gonna do like about a million dollars
47:55this year of like profit. It's a
47:57fantastic business.
47:58>> He has he he eventually wants to have
48:01his own his own brand. My my advice to
48:04him is like fashion is such a like bad
48:07business until it's a great business
48:08till you have like a flagship brand that
48:10takes 20 years to make. Uh I was like
48:13get your business to like a couple
48:15million a year. Get it like established.
48:17It's a couple million a year profit at
48:19least. Get it established. get, you
48:21know, 10, 20 flagship clients that are
48:24on sort of long-term contracts and then
48:27basically use that cash flow to invest
48:28in your brand. And like a lot of people
48:30would be like give them the advice now
48:32of like just go all in on go all in on
48:34the brand. Like why are you wasting time
48:35with this other thing? And I feel like
48:37that's very uh that that works super
48:40well like if you have a trust fund, but
48:41for somebody who's like 27, let's assume
48:44they want to have a family in a few
48:46years. I was pushing him to say like
48:48make this thing great even though you
48:49know it's not the thing that you want to
48:51be doing for that 40y year chunk of your
48:54career. But how would you talk to to
48:57somebody in that sort of space?
48:58>> So I don't think there's a right answer
49:00because it's all dependent on risk which
49:01is entirely personal. Yeah.
49:02>> And so if you want to go balls on the
49:05line that's not cursing um then then do
49:09it. Go all in. But like just understand
49:11the risk that you're taking on. And so I
49:13would say that that's not a risk that I
49:15would take. Um I would say that I'm
49:17relative
49:17>> there's there's risk to being allin and
49:20then not having the capital to actually
49:22fuel the opportunity. Right? My point of
49:24view was like you're going to be way way
49:26higher likelihood of success if you sort
49:28of build slow and you can put half a
49:30million a year of like outside capital
49:32into the business versus like trying to
49:34build this brand when you don't have a a
49:36capital source.
49:37>> Depends on goal, depends on risk
49:38tolerance. like I want to be a
49:40trillionaire and then and I'm willing to
49:42take the risk then it's like yeah I mean
49:44you should have started yesterday you
49:45know what I mean um but my perspective
49:47is I would like to get my oxygen mask on
49:50personally and I was able to make I've
49:53been able to take significantly bigger
49:55and bigger bets in my career because I
49:57don't they're free swings.
49:58>> Yeah.
49:59>> If I lose my ch my life changes to zero.
50:01>> And so in thinking about big life
50:03changes what's been really helpful for
50:04me is what is my what tactically changes
50:06about my life. Do I change what I eat?
50:08Do I change what I wear? Do I change
50:09where I live? Do I change the car I
50:10drive? And and do these things matter,
50:12right? Does it change who I'm married
50:14to? If none of these things change, then
50:18almost none of these decisions are going
50:19to actually have a huge impact on my
50:20life, which then makes the argument for
50:22like maybe I should take a higher risk
50:23adjusted return move. But I would say
50:26that from the emotional side rather than
50:27the logical side, um it was I have tried
50:30I very quickly tried to have a nest egg
50:32to be like I'm good
50:34>> and that's what's allowed me to take
50:35really big bets like things like school.
50:37school for the likelihood that
50:38>> oxygen mass is a is a great way to put
50:41that on if you're going to be
50:42>> if you want and if you have
50:43responsibilities too if you're if you're
50:44a parent and you've got kids and you've
50:46got mortgage and you want a certain
50:48lifestyle for them and certain schools
50:49that they you know that cost money um
50:51then then you're also risking their
50:53futures to a degree and so again it's
50:56your decision
50:57>> but just know what you're putting at
50:58risk and how much is my life going to
51:00change if I lose Keith Cunningham has a
51:02great frame on this which is just um
51:04what's my upside what's my downside and
51:05can I live with my downside side.
51:07>> If you can't live with the downside,
51:08don't take the bad.
51:10>> You mentioned that uh you know the
51:13success and the habits are visible at
51:15the plateau but not on the rise at the
51:18and I agree with you like you're not
51:19actually seeing the accurate picture of
51:22the upand cominging entrepreneur, the
51:24future trillionaire as it's happening.
51:26But at the same time, a lot of
51:28businesses increasingly need to do some
51:30form of social media on their way up.
51:32And the risk there is like sometimes
51:35companies just get sucked into just
51:36being full media companies or the or the
51:38brand value and the and the cash flow
51:40from the media business outgrows
51:42whatever they were doing originally. Uh
51:44what is the right balance? How should
51:45entrepreneurs think in the modern era
51:47like if you're starting a company
51:48consumer product in 2026? What's the
51:51right level of social media and and
51:54actual owned content without it becoming
51:56like fake work?
51:58>> What do you mean by fake work? fake work
51:59would be like you're you're growing your
52:02following account but you're not growing
52:04your cash flow or your actual
52:05>> Yeah. There's a generation of
52:06entrepreneurs and like you're probably a
52:08huge driver of this that are like uh
52:10that are like I need to work I need to
52:12like I need to build my personal brand
52:14and they don't realize that like if they
52:15just make an amazing product that
52:18millions of people benefit from they
52:19just default get the personal brand and
52:21they could just if you care about like
52:23attention and being on camera then you
52:25could just do that later but maybe just
52:26make something amazing.
52:27>> And also your personal brand is an
52:29actual media company that has cash flow
52:32and is like a successful business. You
52:33wouldn't you wouldn't be you wouldn't I
52:34I don't think you would be like on
52:36camera if you weren't making
52:37>> No, I wouldn't. I [laughter] hated it.
52:39It was like it was very hard for me to
52:40decide to do this.
52:40>> Yeah. But there's a lot of people that
52:41are basically doing the media for the
52:43cloud and they don't and they and they
52:44think put it it's fake work because
52:46they're saying they're justifying the
52:48cloud chasing by uh saying oh it's
52:50marketing for my business.
52:52>> If what you do does not translate into
52:54the money that you make and money that
52:56you make is the goal then you are doing
52:58work that is not effective.
53:00>> Yeah. Um, if to the the example you gave
53:03earlier, if you start a a business and
53:06you get better at media and the media is
53:08making more money than your existing
53:09business, then maybe you're better at
53:10media than you were at your business and
53:11maybe that should be your business. And
53:13so I think constantly being flexible
53:14about reassessing what the market wants
53:16versus what you have. Um,
53:18>> you know, I think Basos says this, but
53:19you know, uh, determined on goal and
53:21flexible on path or whatever way he says
53:23that. And he's also a great example of
53:25what's Basos's personal brand. Well,
53:26everyone knows who he is. Does he make a
53:27lot of content? No. Why? just happens to
53:29own Amazon, right? Um and so I think
53:32>> it depends on what what um sphere you
53:35want to get into. This is kind of
53:36interesting. Um if you were to say I
53:38want to be a big B2B influencer,
53:41>> you cannot be a big big B2B influencer
53:43without evidence that you are good at
53:45business.
53:46>> Period. You could take and there's
53:48plenty of people who take word for word
53:49the stuff that I say.
53:50>> There's some aren't there there's
53:51probably some good counter examples to
53:52that. We don't need we don't need to
53:53name them.
53:54>> Yeah. You know, it's it's tough. It's
53:56tough. like I would say the biggest the
53:58big I think the biggest B2B influencer
54:00right now is Elon.
54:02>> Oh, sure. Sure. Right. And he also has
54:03the biggest business and is the richest
54:05man, right? And so and that I think that
54:07just cascades all the way down. The only
54:08reason that so like I was I had a
54:10podcast that started in July of 2017.
54:12That's when I started was called Gym
54:13Secrets and I rebranded as just the
54:14game.
54:15>> Um
54:16>> but the as I continued to make it uh we
54:18went from like you know 2,000 downloads
54:20a month to millions
54:23>> when I sold my company for 46.2 million.
54:25And then people were like, "Oh, this guy
54:26actually knows what he's talking about."
54:27And then the brand took off because I
54:30had evidence
54:30>> legitimacy.
54:31>> And so I think that the amount of
54:33legitimacy that you need to be an
54:35influencer depends on the risk that the
54:38consumer has in taking action on the
54:41nature of the content that you're
54:43making. And so if I'm a beauty
54:45influencer, if I buy lipstick or I do a
54:47a you know a lash technique, I'm getting
54:50the waters I'm not familiar with here.
54:52[laughter] You paint your face in some
54:53way, right?
54:54Um the risk is relatively low. Sure.
54:56Right now you move a little bit over
54:58here and you got like personal finance.
54:59Well, it's like who's the biggest there?
55:00Dave. And then there's there's some of
55:02the new age ones. Erica Clover. She's
55:04got her but she was also um
55:06>> and there's Vivian too I think. Uh, but
55:08like they have some credibility behind
55:10and like there's tons like if a teacher
55:12is in in her basement talking about how
55:15you should invest in the S&P 500 and
55:17says exactly what Warren Buffett says
55:19and maybe they even say it a little bit
55:20more compelling than the way than what
55:22Warren Buffett says.
55:23>> They won't be Warren Buffett because
55:25they just forgot to build Berkshire
55:26Hathway.
55:27>> Sure. Sure. Sure.
55:28>> And so it's like the proof is the
55:29pudding. I think at least my perspective
55:31on media is the proof is the pudding.
55:33But it varies in terms of how much proof
55:35you need. Now, if you're ugly as
55:37very hard to be a beauty influencer.
55:39>> Yeah.
55:40>> But if you can use But if you are ugly
55:42and then you paint your face so well
55:43that you become hot,
55:45>> then you absolutely Yeah. Because you
55:47have evidence,
55:48>> right? And you have a more dramatic
55:49report. No, 100%. This is how it works.
55:51Yeah.
55:52>> I like that. Uh talk about status
55:54seeking. It seems like in Silicon Valley
55:56there's often uh you know, Naval talks
55:58about this like there's value.
55:59>> Silicon Valley.
56:00>> Yeah. Well, well, that's what I want to
56:02know. Uh in Silicon Valley there's a lot
56:03of trend chasing. there's a lot of
56:05status seeking and there's value in like
56:07doing low status activities and I'm
56:08wondering in in mid-market
56:11entrepreneurship small businesses like
56:14what is the shape of that is it
56:15different than Silicon Valley is it less
56:17pronounced more pronounced like what is
56:19the version of look you just need to run
56:22a series of golf courses and be happy
56:24with that that type of thing or whatever
56:25whatever the equivalent is
56:26>> I think it depends on who they compare
56:27themselves to I think it just comes down
56:29to that I think tech guys compare
56:30themselves to other tech guys and they
56:31want approval from tech guys and so they
56:32do the the activities that tech guys
56:34approve of. If you're an HVAC guy, then
56:36it's going to be you're going to do the
56:37activities that HVAC people think are
56:39cool if they're the peer group that you
56:41actually uh compare yourself to, which
56:43they might not be.
56:44>> Um, and to be fair,
56:44>> I love the tech guys that that sell
56:46their business for nine figures and then
56:48are like, I need a cash flowing
56:49lifestyle business ASAP.
56:52>> I know a lot of them. A lot. Like a
56:54crazy amount. Like buying gas stations.
56:56Like it's a lot.
56:59>> How how bad is that?
57:01>> Bad? What do you mean? Like because I I
57:03imagine it's a grass is greener on the
57:05other other side thing where they
57:06enjoyed building their business, they
57:08sold it, they have all this cash, but
57:09they want cash flow. They want the
57:10stability of the cash flow and so they
57:12want the idea of of running a small
57:15business every month
57:15>> and they don't Exactly. But they don't
57:17think about what it means to like at 2
57:19a.m. your gas station got robbed and you
57:21got to go down there and sort it out
57:22with the cops or something like that.
57:23And so I'm wondering about like what is
57:25the actual lesson there for someone
57:27who's like about to get over their skis?
57:30Yeah, I think humans are inherently
57:31dissatisfied.
57:32>> Okay. [laughter]
57:33>> And I think whatever you have, you want
57:34what you don't have. And so if you're
57:36married, you're like, "Ah, life would be
57:37different if I was single. If you're a
57:38parent, you're like, "Ah, can you
57:39remember when we didn't have kids?" And
57:40when if you don't have kids, you're
57:41like, "I wish I had kids." If you're an
57:42employee, you're like, "Man, I wish I
57:43had an entrepreneur." And somebody
57:44you're an entrepreneur, you're like,
57:44"Man, it would be so nice to just show
57:45up and clock out of five and have to
57:46think about it and get a check." Like,
57:48we just always we want to make we want
57:50the benefits of a trade-off without the
57:52negatives of the trade-off.
57:53>> Sure.
57:53>> Yeah. And so when guys are in the cash
57:55flow business, because I'll because
57:56that's who I talk to the majority of the
57:57time is like what they're thinking about
57:59all the times is like it's hard to sell
58:01this business. Um I'm not really
58:03building my net worth. The multiples
58:05that I'm getting on this aren't going to
58:06necessarily be that high. Um I'm dealing
58:08with people all day. I've deal with low
58:09skilled labor and I've got, you know,
58:11turn issues or finding texts that aren't
58:12going to show up drunk on the job. Like
58:14there's like my one of my favorite
58:16quotes of all time. I'm gonna try not to
58:17cuss on this one, but um
58:19>> my CFO was uh deep South Texas when we
58:22were when we were in Texas when we were
58:23building Gym Launch. Um Suzanne
58:25Shifflet, shout out to Suzanne. Um she
58:27was the reason we were able to sell Gym
58:28Launch. Um she's she had been she had
58:32been a CFO for four companies from 1 to
58:35100 million plus had done a $5 billion
58:38exit and I think she had she'd been
58:40either buy side or sellside over 20
58:42times.
58:42>> Wow. She was just like she was like just
58:45so weathered in a good way, right? Um
58:47and she said, "You know what, Alex?"
58:49She's like, "It's all shit." [laughter]
58:52She was like, "It's all Every
58:53business is It's all shit." And I
58:56and it was but it was like she said it
58:57with so much sincerity because I was
58:59like at the time I was like, "Man, it'd
59:00be cool if we got this kind of multiple
59:01blah blah blah." And she was like, "It
59:03just doesn't it's it it all sucks." And
59:05it's just different type of suck, but it
59:07all sucks.
59:08>> Be satisfied. Uh, we're at time, but
59:10give us a pitch for scale or fail.
59:13>> If you like seeing entrepreneurs try
59:16their absolute hardest and have a
59:18completely new paradigm shift in 90
59:20days, uh, to scale their business the
59:22most, uh, then watch the show. I meet
59:24with them for an hour, give them a whole
59:26blueprint of what I would do if I bought
59:27the business 100% today. Um, and then
59:30they execute and they compete.
59:31>> I love it.
59:32>> Amazing. So, reminds me of PMF or die.
59:34>> Yeah.
59:34>> We we we experimented with the show last
59:37year. Uh it was like [laughter]
59:40yeah it was like it was like we we we
59:42put this team in an apartment in New
59:44York. They were not allowed to leave for
59:4590 days until or or until they build a
59:48million-dollar AR business. Uh it it it
59:50it it descended into chaos [laughter]
59:53and and
59:55situation for sure.
59:56>> It was totally crazy and we were like we
59:58don't have time to do this and this.
1:00:01>> But it had it had like hundreds of
1:00:02people watching at all times. It was
1:00:04actually gripping
1:00:05>> and it was just a live stream of them in
1:00:06the apartment just like cooking. It was
1:00:08>> but one of them got really good at
1:00:09talking to chat. It was a whole thing.
1:00:11It was sort of opened us up.
1:00:13>> That was a good example because like one
1:00:14of them clearly was like a gifted
1:00:16content creator and the other one was
1:00:17like why am I on camera? This is
1:00:19terrible.
1:00:19>> This is terrible.
1:00:20>> Did he become a content creator?
1:00:21>> Uh we got to check in with
1:00:23>> we got to check in with him.
1:00:24>> But they're both very talented travel a
1:00:26little bit.
1:00:26>> Yeah. They both needed to like
1:00:27disconnect. It was
1:00:28>> but uh yeah. So, so don't do the show
1:00:31live. Then people will will actually go.
1:00:33>> The edit is is awesome,
1:00:36>> dude. Thanks for having me.
1:00:38>> Thank you so much for coming on. This is
1:00:40great. We'll talk to you soon.

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