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Alan Watts - Speaking on Carl Jung — Transcript

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0:00I'm sitting late at night
0:03in a Lonely Cottage in the country
0:07surrounded by many favorite books
0:10which I've collected over a number of
0:12years
0:14and as I look up at the shelves
0:17I see that there's a very large space
0:21occupied by the volumes of one man
0:25Carl Gustav Jung
0:29who left this world not more than a few
0:32weeks ago
0:36and I'd like to talk tonight
0:39about some of the great things that I
0:41feel that Jung has done for me
0:44and also the things which I feel to be
0:47his enduring contributions
0:50toward
0:52the science of psychology of which he
0:54was such a great master
0:59I began to read Young
1:01when
1:02first began to study Eastern philosophy
1:05in my late adolescence
1:09and I'm eternally grateful to him
1:12for what I would call a sort of
1:14balancing influence on the development
1:16of my thought
1:19as an adolescent
1:22in Rebellion against the sterile
1:26Christianity
1:27in which I was brought up
1:30I was liable to go absolutely overboard
1:32for exotic and foreign ideas
1:35until I read the extraordinarily wise
1:38commentary that he wrote
1:41translation of a Chinese Taoist text
1:45called The Secret of the Golden Flower
1:47and it was young
1:49who helped me to remind myself that I
1:52was by
1:53upbringing and by tradition always a
1:56Westerner and I couldn't escape
1:59from my own cultural conditioning
2:02and that this inability to escape was
2:05not a kind of prison
2:07that was the endowment of ones being
2:10with certain capacities like one's arms
2:13and legs and mouth and teeth and brain
2:15which could always be used
2:18constructively
2:21and I feel it's for this reason that I
2:23have
2:25always remained for myself in the
2:28position of the comparative philosopher
2:30wanting to balance East and West rather
2:33than to go overboard with enthusiasm for
2:36exotic Imports
2:39but there are aspects of Jung's work far
2:41beyond us that I want to discuss
2:44and first of all I want to call
2:46attention to one
2:48fundamental principle that underlay all
2:51his work and that was most
2:53extraordinarily exemplified in Jung
2:56himself as a person
2:59and this is what I would call his
3:01recognition of the polarity of life
3:06that is to say his resistance
3:10to what is to my mind the disastrous and
3:13absurd hypothesis
3:16that there is in this universe
3:19a radical and absolute conflict between
3:21good and evil light and darkness
3:24that can never never be harmonized
3:28this conflict has come up to us in a
3:30very Vivid way in recent days
3:34with the trial of Adolf Eichmann
3:40and
3:42with other customers
3:46passionate denunciation
3:49of any sort of philosophy of life and
3:52he's thinking in mind he has in mind
3:54particularly Eastern philosophers like
3:57Buddhism and Hinduism
4:00which so
4:04slur
4:05the absolute differences between Good
4:07and Evil
4:09that in their name one could justify the
4:13sort of crimes
4:14which were committed in the
4:16concentration camps of Germany
4:18and it's interesting too certain people
4:20accused Jung also
4:23of Nazi sympathies
4:28because he too would not subscribe
4:34to
4:36the absolute state
4:38of a war between Good and Evil
4:41going down to the very roots of the
4:43universe
4:45obviously
4:47when certain
4:50crimes and catastrophes occur human
4:53emotions are deeply and rightly aroused
4:59and
5:00I would
5:02for myself say that were I in any
5:05situation
5:07where an Iceman was operating
5:11I would be roused to to a degree of Fury
5:19that I can hardly imagine in my present
5:22existence but I know it would come out
5:23from me I would oppose
5:27those sorts of villainers with all the
5:31energy that I have
5:33and if I was trapped in such a situation
5:35I would fight it to the end
5:38but at the same time
5:41I would recognize the relativity of my
5:43own emotional involvement
5:47I would know that I was fighting
5:50a man like Eichmann
5:54in the same way
5:56shall we say as
5:58a spider and a wasp
6:00insects which naturally Prey Upon one
6:04another and fight one another do so
6:09that as a human being I would not be
6:11able to regard my adversary
6:14as a metaphysical devil
6:18that is to say as one who represented
6:20the principle of absolute and
6:23unresolvable Evil
6:26and I think this
6:28is the most important thing in in Young
6:33that he was able to point out
6:37that he to the degree that you condemn
6:40others
6:42and find evil in others
6:45you are to that degree unconscious of
6:47the same thing in yourself
6:52or at least to the of the potentiality
6:54of it
6:56there can be eichmann's and Hitlers and
6:59himlas
7:01just because there are people who are
7:04unconscious
7:06of Their Own
7:08dark sides and they project that
7:11Darkness outward into say Jews or
7:14Communists or whatever the enemy may be
7:17say there is the darkness it is not in
7:19me and therefore because the darkness is
7:22not in me I am justified
7:24in annihilating this enemy
7:27whether it be with atom bombs or gas
7:30Chambers or whatnot
7:33that to the degree that a person becomes
7:35conscious that the evil
7:37is as much in himself as in the other
7:42to this same degree he is not like me to
7:45project it onto some scapegoat
7:49and commit
7:50the most CR and commit them as criminal
7:53acts of violence on other people
7:58now this is to me the primary thing that
8:02Jung saw
8:06that
8:07in order to admit and really accept and
8:10understand the evil in oneself one had
8:13to be able to do it without being an
8:16enemy to it
8:18as he put it you had to accept your own
8:21dark side
8:24and
8:27he had this preeminently in his own
8:30character
8:33I had a long talk with him back in 1958
8:39and
8:41I was enormously impressed
8:44with a man who's obviously very great
8:46but at the same time
8:48with whom everyone could be completely
8:50at ease there are so many great people
8:53greater knowledge or great in what is
8:56called holiness
8:57with whom the ordinary individual feels
8:59rather embarrassed he feels he planned
9:01to sit on the edge of his chair
9:03and to feel immediately judged by this
9:07person's wisdom or sanctity
9:09young managed to have wisdom and I think
9:11also sanctity in such a way that when
9:14other people came into its presence they
9:16didn't feel judged
9:18they felt
9:22uh
9:23enhanced
9:25encouraged
9:27and invited to share
9:30in a common life
9:33and there was a sort of Twinkle in
9:35Jung's eye
9:37that gave me the impression
9:40that he
9:41he knew himself
9:44to be as just as much a villain
9:48as everybody else there's a nice German
9:51word hinter gedanka which means a
9:53thought in the very far far back of your
9:55mind young had a hinted in the back of
9:58his mind
9:59which showed it showed in the twinkle in
10:02his eye it showed
10:05that
10:07he knew and recognized what I have
10:11sometimes called the element of
10:12irreducible rascality in himself
10:17and he knew it
10:20so strongly and so clearly and in a way
10:23so lovingly
10:25that he would not condemn the same thing
10:27in others
10:29and therefore would not be led
10:32into those
10:33thoughts feelings and acts of violence
10:36towards others
10:38which are always characteristic of the
10:41people
10:42who project the devil in themselves
10:46upon the outside upon somebody else upon
10:49the scapegoat
10:51now this made young a very integrated
10:54character in other words
10:56here I have to present a little bit of a
10:58complex idea
11:00he was a man who was thoroughly with
11:02himself
11:06having seen and accepted his own nature
11:08profoundly
11:13he had a kind of
11:16unity and absence of conflict in his own
11:19nature which had to it this additional
11:22complication that I find so fascinating
11:24he was the sort of man
11:26who could feel anxious and Afraid and
11:30guilty
11:32without being ashamed of feeling this
11:35way
11:37in other words
11:39he understood that an integrated person
11:42is not a person who simply eliminated
11:44the sense of guilt or the sense of
11:46anxiety from his life
11:50who is fearless and wooden and a kind of
11:53sage of stone he's a person who feels
11:57all these things but has no
11:58recrimination against himself for
12:00feeling them
12:01and this is to my mind uh a profound
12:05kind of humor
12:07you know in humor there's always a
12:09certain element of malice
12:11there was a talk given on the Pacifica
12:13stations just a little while ago which
12:16was an interview with Al cap
12:18and our cap made the point that he felt
12:20that all humor was fundamentally
12:21malicious
12:23now there's a very high kind of humor
12:25which is humor at oneself
12:31a real humor is not
12:34uh jokes at the expense of others it's
12:37always jokes at the expense of oneself
12:39and of course it has an element of
12:40malice in it it has uh malice towards
12:44oneself the recognition of the fact that
12:48behind the social role that you assume
12:51behind all your pretensions
12:53to being either a good citizen or a fine
12:57scholar or a great scientist or
13:02a leading politician or physician or
13:05whatever you happen to be but behind
13:08this facade
13:11there is a certain element of the
13:14unreconstructed bum
13:17not as something to be condemned and
13:19wailed over
13:21there's something to be recognized as
13:23contributive to one's greatness and to
13:27one's positive aspects in the same way
13:29that manure is contributive to the
13:32perfume of the Rose
13:36Jung saw this and Jung accepted this
13:40and I want to read
13:42passage from one of his lectures which I
13:46think is
13:47one of the greatest things he ever wrote
13:49and which has been
13:51very marvelous thing for me it was in a
13:54lecture delivered to a group of clergy
13:57in Switzerland considerable number of
14:00years ago
14:02and he writes as follows
14:06people forget
14:08that even doctors have moral scruples
14:11and that certain patients confessions
14:13are hard even for a doctor to swallow
14:18yet the patient does not feel himself
14:20accepted unless the very worst in him is
14:23accepted too
14:25no one can bring this about by mere
14:27words
14:28it comes only through reflection and
14:31through the doctor's attitude towards
14:33himself and his own dark side
14:36if the doctor wants to guide another or
14:38even accompany him a step of the way he
14:41must feel
14:42with that person's psyche
14:45he never feels it when he passes
14:48judgment
14:49whether he puts his judgments into words
14:51or keeps them to himself makes not the
14:54slightest difference
14:56to take the opposite position and to
14:58agree with the patient offhand is also
15:00of no use but as strange as him as much
15:03as condemnation
15:05feeling comes only through unprejudiced
15:08objectivity this sounds almost like a
15:10scientific precept and it could be
15:12confused with a purely intellectual
15:14abstract attitude of mind but what I
15:17mean is something quite different
15:19it is a human quality a kind of deep
15:22respect for the facts for the man who
15:25suffers from them
15:26and for the riddle of such a man's life
15:30the truly religious person has this
15:32attitude
15:33he knows that God has brought all sorts
15:36of strange and inconceivable things to
15:38pass and seeks in the most curious ways
15:40to enter a man's heart
15:43he therefore senses in everything the
15:46Unseen presence of the Divine will
15:48this is what I mean by unprejudiced
15:51objectivity it is a moral achievement on
15:54the part of the doctor
15:55who ought not to let himself be repelled
15:57by sickness and Corruption
16:00we cannot change anything unless we
16:03accept it
16:05condemnation does not liberate
16:07it oppresses
16:09and I am the oppressor of the person I
16:12condemn not his friend and fellow
16:14sufferer
16:15I do not in the least mean to say that
16:17we must never pass judgment when we
16:19desire to help and improve but if the
16:22doctor wishes to help a human being he
16:24must be able to accept him as he is
16:27and he can do this in reality only when
16:30he has already seen and accepted himself
16:33as he is
16:35perhaps this sounds very simple
16:37but simple things are always the most
16:39difficult
16:41in actual life it requires the greatest
16:44art to be simple
16:46and so acceptance of oneself is the
16:49essence of the moral problem and the
16:51acid test of one's whole outlook on life
16:55that I feed the beggar that I forgiven
16:58insult that I love my enemy in the Name
17:01of Christ all these are undoubtedly
17:03great virtues
17:05what I do unto the least of my brethren
17:07that I do unto Christ
17:10but what if I should discover that the
17:12least amongst them all the poorest of
17:14all Beggars the most impudent of all
17:16offenders yea the very fiend himself
17:18that these are within me
17:21and that I myself stand in need of the
17:24arms of my own kindness that I myself am
17:27the enemy who must be loved what then
17:30then as a rule the whole truth of
17:33Christianity is reversed
17:36there is then no more talk of love and
17:38long-suffering
17:39we say to the brother within us raqqa
17:42and condemn and rage against ourselves
17:45we hide him from the world we deny ever
17:48having met this least among the lowly in
17:50ourselves and had it been God himself
17:51who drew near to us in this despicable
17:53form
17:55we should have denied him a thousand
17:56times before a single had crowed
18:03well
18:07you may think the metaphors
18:10rather strong
18:13but I feel that
18:16they are not so needlessly this is a
18:19very very forceful Passage
18:21and a memorable one in all Jung's works
18:27trying
18:28to heal this insanity
18:33from which
18:34our culture in particular has suffered
18:39of thinking that a human being can
18:41become hail healthy and holy
18:45by being divided against himself in
18:48inner conflict
18:50paralleling the conception of a cosmic
18:53conflict between an absolute good and an
18:55absolute evil
18:57which
18:58cannot be reduced to any prior and
19:02underlying Unity
19:07in other words our rage
19:09and our very proper rage
19:12against evil things which occur in this
19:14world
19:18must not overstep itself
19:23for if we require as a justification for
19:26our rage
19:28a fundamental and metaphysical division
19:30between good and evil we have an insane
19:34and in the certain sense schizophrenic
19:36Universe of which no sense whatsoever
19:38can be made
19:42all conflict Jung was saying all
19:45opposition
19:46has its resolution in an underlying
19:49Unity
19:50you cannot understand the meaning of to
19:52be
19:53unless you understand the meaning of not
19:55to be
19:56you cannot understand the meaning of
19:58good unless you understand the meaning
20:00of evil even Saint Thomas Aquinas saw
20:02this for he said the Justice it is the
20:06silent pause which gives sweetness to
20:08the chant
20:09so it is suffering and so it is evil
20:13which makes possible
20:15the recognition of virtue
20:19this is not as Jung tries to explain a
20:22philosophy of condoning the evil
20:26to take the opposite position he said
20:28and to agree with the patient offhand is
20:30also of no use but as strangers him the
20:34doctor or estranges him the patient as
20:36much as condemnation
20:42let me continue further reading from
20:45this extraordinary Passage
20:49healing may be called Jung says a
20:52religious problem
20:54in the sphere of social or national
20:56relations the state of suffering may be
20:59civil war
21:01and this state is to be cured by the
21:04Christian virtue of forgiveness and love
21:06of one's enemies
21:10that which we recommend with the
21:12conviction of good Christians is
21:14applicable to external situations
21:16we must also apply inwardly in the
21:19treatment of neurosis
21:21this is why modern man has heard enough
21:23about guilt and sin
21:25he is sorely beset by his own bad
21:28conscience
21:29and wants rather to know how he is to
21:32reconcile himself with his own nature
21:34how he is to love the enemy in his own
21:37heart
21:38and call the wolf his brother
21:41the modern man does not want to know in
21:43what way he can imitate Christ
21:46but in what way he can live his own
21:48individual life
21:49however meager and uninteresting it may
21:52be
21:54it is because every form of imitation
21:56seems to him deadening and sterile that
22:00he Rebels against the force of tradition
22:02that would hold him to well-trodden ways
22:06all such roads for him lead in the wrong
22:09direction
22:10he may not know it but he behaves as if
22:13his own individual life where God's
22:15special will which must be fulfilled at
22:17all costs
22:18this is the source of his egoism
22:22which is one of the most tangible evils
22:24of the neurotic state
22:27but the person who tells him he is too
22:29egoistic has already lost his confidence
22:32and rightly so for that person has
22:35driven him still further into his
22:37neurosis
22:39if I wish to affect a cure for my
22:41patients
22:43I am forced to acknowledge the Deep
22:45significance of their egoism
22:48I should be blind indeed if I did not
22:51recognize it as a true will of God
22:54I must even help the patient to Prevail
22:57in his egoism
22:58if he succeeds in this he estranges
23:01himself from other people he drives them
23:03away
23:04and they come to themselves as they
23:06should for they were seeking to Rob him
23:08of his sacred egoism
23:11this must be left to him
23:13for it is his strongest and healthiest
23:15power
23:16it is as I have said a true will of God
23:19which sometimes drives him into complete
23:22isolation
23:24however wretched the state may be it
23:26also stands him in good Stead
23:29for in this way alone can he get to know
23:31himself
23:32and learn what an invaluable treasure is
23:35the love of his fellow beings
23:38it is moreover only in the state of
23:41complete abandonment and loneliness
23:43that we experience The Helpful powers of
23:46our own natures
23:50end of quote
23:52this is a very
23:55striking example of Jung's power to
23:58comprehend
24:00and integrate points of view as well as
24:03psychological attitudes that seem on the
24:05surface to be completely antithetical
24:08for example even in his own work when he
24:12was devoting himself to the study of
24:14Eastern philosophy he had some
24:16difficulty in comprehending the let's
24:20say the buddhistic denial of the reality
24:23of the ego
24:25but you can see
24:27that
24:29in practice in what he was actually
24:31trying to get at he was moving towards
24:34the same position that is intended
24:37in both the Hindu and the Buddhist
24:40uh
24:41philosophy about the nature of the ego
24:43just for example as the Hindu will say
24:46that
24:48the eye principle in man is not really a
24:52separate ego but an expression of the
24:54universal life of Brahman or the godhead
24:58so Jung is saying here that the
25:01development of the ego in man is a true
25:04will of God
25:05and that it is only about following the
25:07ego that one
25:10and developing it to its full extent
25:14that one fulfills
25:17the function which this you might say
25:20temporary illusion has in man's psychic
25:23life for he goes on and says here when
25:25one has several times seen this
25:27development at work one can no longer
25:29deny that what was evil has turned to
25:31good and that what seemed good has kept
25:34alive the forces of evil
25:36the archdemon of egoism leads us along
25:39the Royal Road
25:40to that in gathering which religious
25:43experience demands
25:45what we observe here is a fundamental
25:47law of life
25:49enantiodramea or conversion into the
25:53opposite
25:54and it is this that makes possible the
25:56reunion of the warring halves of the
25:58personality and thereby brings the Civil
26:01War to an end
26:03end of quote
26:06in other words
26:09he was seeing that as Blake said a fool
26:12who persists in his folly will become
26:14wise
26:15that the development of egoism in man is
26:18not something
26:19to be overcome or better integrated
26:23by opposition to it
26:25but by following it
26:27it's almost isn't it the principle of
26:29Judo not
26:31overcoming what appears to be a hostile
26:33Force by opposing it but by Swinging
26:37with the punch or rolling with the punch
26:41and so by
26:43following the ego the ego transcends
26:46itself
26:47and in this
26:49moment of insight
26:52the great Westerner
26:54who comes out of a whole tradition of
26:56human personality which centers it upon
26:58the ego
26:59upon individual separateness
27:02by
27:04going along consistently with this
27:07principle
27:08comes to the same position as the
27:10easterner
27:13that is to say
27:15to
27:17the point of view where one sees
27:20conflict
27:22which at First Sight had seemed absolute
27:25as resting upon a primordial Unity
27:31and thereby attaining a profound
27:34unshakable
27:36piece of the heart
27:40which can nevertheless
27:43contain
27:44conflict
27:46not a peace that is simply
27:50static and lifeless
27:53but a piece
27:55that passes understanding
27:59I suppose that some of you have read
28:03a very fascinating work that was written
28:05many years ago by CG Young
28:08the commentary
28:09that he wrote to
28:11translation of a Chinese classic
28:14by Rickard Wilhelm called The Secret of
28:16the Golden Flower
28:20now you may remember that in that
28:23commentary
28:24he takes up the very fascinating problem
28:28of the dangers inherent in the adoption
28:33of
28:34Oriental ways of life by westerners but
28:39more particularly the adoption of
28:41Oriental spiritual practices such as
28:43yoga
28:47and I remember I
28:49learned a great deal from that essay and
28:52appreciated it very much and ever so
28:54many ways
28:56because
28:57even in my own fascination
29:00with forms of Oriental philosophy
29:05I have never been tempted to forget that
29:07I'm a Westerner
29:10but as I think this essay over
29:15I'm not sure that young discouraged
29:20the practice of yoga by westerners for
29:22quite the right reasons
29:25I find so often the difficulty in Jung's
29:29ideas
29:30lies in his theory of History
29:36which is I feel a hangover
29:39from 19th century
29:42series of History
29:45uh
29:46encouraged by Darwinism
29:50namely that there's a sort of orderly
29:52progression
29:54from the ape
29:56through the primitive
29:58to the Civilized man
30:01of course naturally at that time that
30:03was all hitched in was a theory of
30:04progress
30:06and it was highly convenient for the
30:08cultures of Western Europe which were
30:09then a one-up on everybody else
30:13to consider themselves in the van of
30:15progress and when they visited the
30:17natives of Borneo and Australia and so
30:19on
30:20to be able to feel that they were
30:22perfectly justified in appropriating
30:24their lands and dominating them because
30:26they were giving them the benefits of
30:27the last word in evolution
30:32and uh therefore under the influence of
30:36that sort of theory of History which is
30:38felt in the work of both Freud and Young
30:43one gets the feeling of their being
30:48a kind of progressive
30:51development of human consciousness and
30:53young is charitable enough to assume
30:55that because the Chinese and Indian
30:57civilizations are immeasurably older
30:59than ours
31:01they've had the possibility of far more
31:03sophistication
31:05in psychic development
31:08even though he feels and probably
31:10rightly that there are things they can
31:12learn from us
31:13but the reason why he discourages the
31:16Westerner from the practice of yoga is
31:18that he says this is a discipline
31:20for a far older culture than ours
31:24which along certain lines has progressed
31:27much further
31:28and has learned certain things that we
31:30haven't mastered at all yet
31:32and that's he points out that when
31:34somebody Embraces uh vedanta or
31:37theosophy or any yoga School in the West
31:41and
31:43tries to master a discipline of
31:45concentration
31:47in which
31:49uh they have to
31:52oust from their Consciousness all
31:55wandering thoughts
31:56he says that this for a Westerner may be
31:58a very dangerous thing indeed because
32:00that's exactly what the Western Armenia
32:02need to do
32:03is to allow free reign to his wandering
32:07thoughts and his imagination and his
32:10fantasy because it's only in this way
32:11that he can get in touch with his
32:14unconscious
32:15and that his unconscious will not leave
32:17him in peace until he gets in touch with
32:19it he assumes the
32:21members of Oriental cultures have done
32:23this long before they went in for yoga
32:26practice
32:27now I don't think this is quite true
32:31but I do think there are other reasons
32:35why
32:37Western people
32:40need to exercise a good deal of
32:42discrimination and caution
32:45in adopting
32:47Eastern disciplines and ways of life
32:52in other words it's rather like the
32:55problem of taking medicine
32:58you know if you don't feel very well and
33:00you go to a friend's medicine cabinet
33:02and you sort of look it over and see
33:04bottles of medicine in there and you say
33:06I'm sick I need medicine so you take
33:08some medicine any medicine will do well
33:10it won't
33:12and uh
33:14according to what's the matter with you
33:16so the medicine has to be prescribed
33:19and I don't think that the things which
33:21some of the Eastern disciplines are
33:23designed to cure
33:24are quite the same things that we need
33:29now it's
33:30fundamental to my view of
33:35the nature of such forms of discipline
33:39as Buddhism and Taoism
33:42that they are ways of Liberation from a
33:45specific kind of confinement
33:49that is to say that ways of liberation
33:52from what I've sometimes called the
33:55social hypnosis
33:59in other words
34:02every culture every society
34:07as a group of people in communication
34:09with each other
34:11has certain rules of communication
34:16and from culture to culture these rules
34:18differ in just the same way that
34:20languages differ
34:22and a culture can hold together on very
34:25very different kinds of rules I won't
34:27say any kinds of rules but very
34:29different kinds of rules
34:31always provided that the members agree
34:33about them whether they are forced to
34:35agree whether they agree tacitly or
34:37whatever the reason may be
34:41and these rules are in a way very much
34:44like the rules of a game
34:48in other words take a game like chess
34:52you can have the kind of Chess we play
34:55with an eight square board
34:57or you can have a kind of chest that the
34:59Japanese play with a nine square board
35:02I doesn't make any difference so long as
35:05you both play on the same board and by
35:07the same rules
35:10but since this is
35:14a chess as a game
35:16and in the same way the development of
35:19human cultures is also in a way a game
35:21that is to say it's the elaboration of a
35:23form of life
35:25and the fun of it in a way is the fun of
35:29elaborating it in just some interesting
35:31form
35:33that's the same as the fun of a game the
35:36fun of the game is it has a certain
35:37interest
35:39but it doesn't follow
35:42that the rules of the game
35:45correspond
35:47to the actual structure of human nature
35:51or to the laws of the universe
35:55but because in every culture it's
35:57necessary to impress upon especially its
35:59younger members that these rules Jolly
36:01will have to be kept
36:04they are
36:05usually in some way or other
36:08connected with
36:09the laws of the universe and given some
36:12sort of divine sanction
36:15and there are indeed cultures in which
36:17the
36:19senior members of the group realize that
36:22that's a hoax that that's as if it's
36:25made up
36:26and is done to terrify the young and
36:28when they uh become senior members of
36:31the culture themselves they see through
36:33the thing that they don't let on they
36:35keep it quiet
36:36they don't let out to those who are
36:38supposed to be impressed that this was
36:39really a hoax to get them to behave
36:43anyway
36:47after a great deal of careful study I've
36:49come to the conclusion
36:52that the function of these ways of
36:54liberation
36:55is basically
36:59to make it possible for those who have
37:02the
37:03determination
37:06and we'll see why in a while to make it
37:08possible for those who have the
37:10determination
37:11to be free
37:13from the social hypnosis
37:18in other words if you were a member of
37:20the culture of India
37:24almost any time between maybe 900 BC
37:29and 1800 A.D
37:33it would be for you
37:37a matter of Common Sense
37:40about which everybody agreed
37:44that you were under the control of a
37:46process called karma
37:50not exactly a law of cause and effect
37:55but a process of cosmic Justice
37:59whereby
38:01every fortune that occurred to you
38:04would be the result of some action in
38:06the past that was good
38:08and every Misfortune that occurred to
38:10you would be the result of some action
38:13in the past that was evil
38:15and furthermore that this action in the
38:18past
38:18might not have been done in this present
38:21life but in a former life it was simply
38:23axiomatic to those people
38:25that they were involved in a long long
38:28process of reincarnation
38:32reaping the rewards and punishments
38:36and
38:38there were not only there was not only
38:40the possibility of being reincarnated
38:42again in the human form
38:44but if you were exceedingly good you
38:46might be born in one of the heavens
38:49the paradises and if you were exceeding
38:51a bad you might be born for an
38:53insufferable period of years not forever
38:56in a purgatory
38:58and the purgatories of the Hindus and
39:00Buddhists are just as ingeniously
39:02horrible as those of the Christians
39:05well of course
39:07everybody knows I I mean anybody seems
39:10to be having a sense that all this
39:14uh imagination of post-mortem Courts of
39:18Justice
39:19is a way of telling people
39:22well if the secular police don't catch
39:25you the celestial police will catch you
39:27and therefore you would better behave
39:29and it's an ingenious device for
39:31encouraging ethical conduct
39:37now
39:38but remember that for a person brought
39:41up in that climate of feeling where
39:43everybody believes this to be true
39:46it seems a matter of sheer common sense
39:48that it's so
39:51and it's very difficult
39:53for a person so brought up
39:56not to believe that that is the state of
39:58affairs
40:01take an equivalent situation in our own
40:03culture
40:05it's still enormously difficult for most
40:08people to believe
40:10that space may not be Newtonian space
40:13that is to say
40:15a three-dimensional Continuum which
40:17extends indefinitely forever
40:20the idea of a four-dimensional curved
40:23space seems absolutely fantastic and
40:25can't even be conceived by people
40:28unversed in the mathematics of modern
40:31physics
40:33or again as I've often pointed out it's
40:36very difficult for us to believe
40:39that the forms of nature are not made of
40:42some stuff
40:44called Mata
40:47that's a very unnecessary idea from a
40:50strictly scientific point of view but
40:51it's awfully difficult for us to believe
40:53it
40:54to believe in other words that there
40:55isn't this underlying stuff
41:00and uh not so long ago
41:03it was practically impossible
41:06for people to conceive
41:09that the planets did not revolve about
41:12the Earth encased in crystalline's fears
41:18and it took a very considerable shaking
41:21of the imagination
41:23when astronomers began to point out that
41:26this need not necessarily be so
41:31all right so now let's go back to the
41:33problem of somebody living in the
41:35culture of ancient India here it is as a
41:37matter of common sense you see
41:39that he's going to be reborn
41:43now
41:44the some perhaps exceedingly
41:47intelligent person
41:51who for one reason or another discovers
41:53that this idea
41:56is not so
42:00after all when you get such disciplines
42:03as vedanta and Buddhism they say
42:08that the ultimate goal of the discipline
42:12is release
42:13from the rounds of rebirth and
42:17incidentally also which is fundamental
42:19to it
42:20release from the illusion
42:22that you are a separate individual
42:26confined to this body
42:31but so far as
42:33both of these things are concerned they
42:36also say that the person who is
42:38liberated from the round of rebirth as
42:40well as from the illusion of being an
42:42ego
42:43sees when he is liberated
42:46that the process of rebirth and the
42:49whole cosmology of reincarnation and
42:52Karma as well as the individual ego are
42:56in a way illusions
42:58that is to say he sees that they are
43:00Maya
43:01and I would like to translate Maya at
43:04this moment not so much illusion as a
43:07playful construct
43:09a social institution
43:12so he sees you see that those things are
43:15not so
43:17they are only pretended to be so
43:21and you see he ceases to believe
43:24in karma and reincarnation and all that
43:27in exactly the same way that a modern
43:30agnostic no longer believes in the
43:32resurrection of the body at the day of
43:34judgment
43:38I I know this to be so because
43:42although you will get very many Hindus
43:45and Buddhists
43:46who say that they believe in
43:48reincarnation
43:51and come over here and teach it as part
43:55of the doctrine of vedanta or Buddhism
44:00the the most sophisticated and the most
44:03profound I'll say perhaps profound
44:05rather than sophisticated
44:08Buddhists that I have known
44:11have said that they don't believe in it
44:14literally at all
44:17and
44:20so I could say that those who do believe
44:24in it believe in it simply because
44:27it's part of their culture
44:29and they've not yet been able to be
44:31liberated from it
44:35and so it seems to me very funny indeed
44:38when Western people
44:42who become interested in vedanta or
44:45Buddhism
44:46that is to say
44:48in forms of discipline
44:51to liberate Hindus and uh Chinese people
44:56from certain social institutions
45:00Western people adopted and then also
45:03adopt
45:05the ideas of reincarnation and Karma
45:08from which these systems were designed
45:10to liberate them
45:14and of course they adopt them because
45:15they
45:16feel it's consoling that one will go on
45:19living and that wasn't the point at all
45:21or that it explains something that why
45:24one suffered in this life was not
45:26because the universe was unjust but
45:28because you committed some misdeed in
45:30the past
45:32and so
45:34westerners who take up
45:37the Oriental doctrines in that spirit
45:41unfortunately take up the very illusions
45:45from which these doctrines were supposed
45:47to be ways of Deliverance
45:52now that may be difficult to see just
45:55because
45:57so many practicing Hindus and Buddhists
46:01say
46:02they believe in reincarnation and this
46:05whole process of the cycles of Karma and
46:08so on
46:09and uh
46:13they after all are practicing it and
46:16they should know
46:19when I look here there's a certain good
46:20reason why they shouldn't
46:23of course I'm making an exception of the
46:28Indian or Chinese
46:30who's been educated in western style
46:34and he ceases
46:35to believe maybe in the cosmologies of
46:39his own culture
46:40but he's not liberated in the Buddhist
46:42sense because in receiving a western
46:44education he's become a victim of our
46:46social institutions instead online he's
46:48just exchanged as it were one trouble
46:50for another
46:51but uh
46:53when you take
46:55the situation
46:57as it stands or as it did stand in India
47:01isolated from Western culture
47:04obviously no Society can tolerate within
47:08its own borders the existence of a way
47:10of Liberation a way of seeing through
47:13its institutions
47:16uh without feeling that
47:19such a way constitutes a threat to Law
47:23and Order anybody who sees through the
47:25institutions of society
47:27and sees them for as it were creative
47:30fictions in the same way as a novel or a
47:32work of art as a creative fiction
47:34anybody who sees that of course could be
47:36regarded by the society as a potential
47:38Menace
47:41but
47:43then you may ask well if if Buddhism and
47:46vedanta and so on were indeed ways of
47:48Liberation how could Indian or Chinese
47:50Society or Burmese Society have
47:52tolerated their presence
47:55well the answer lies simply in the much
47:58misunderstood
47:59esotericism of these disciplines
48:04in other words that
48:06those who taught them the masters of
48:08these disciplines
48:09made it incredibly difficult for
48:12uninitiated people to get in on the
48:14inside
48:17and
48:19their method of initiating them in a way
48:23was
48:25to put them
48:26through trap after trap after trap to
48:30see if they could find their way through
48:36in other words
48:38uh
48:41such a master would not dream of
48:43beginning
48:45by disabusing
48:47the neophyte and saying well you know
48:50all these things you heard from your
48:52father and mother and teachers and so on
48:54were fairy tales oh no indeed
48:59uh he would
49:03do what is called in Buddhism
49:06exercise the use of upaya
49:09Sanskrit word meaning skillful devices
49:13or skillful means sometimes described
49:17as giving a child a yellow leaf
49:21to stop it crying for gold
49:25after all
49:27when you approach
49:29one of these ways of Liberation from the
49:32outside
49:34it looks like something
49:36very very fantastic
49:39here you are literally
49:42going to be released
49:45from a literally true and physical cycle
49:49of endless incarnations
49:52heavens and Hells and all kinds of
49:55states
49:57and therefore naturally to do that what
49:59an undertaking that must be what a
50:01wonderful extraordinary person you've
50:03got to become
50:07and so the neophyte is ready for almost
50:10anything
50:12and the teacher
50:15because the the fundamental problem in
50:18this whole thing is for him
50:21to
50:23get rid of the illusion
50:25you see that he's a separate ego if
50:28there's no separate ego or sort of Soul
50:30then there's nothing to be reincarnated
50:33so all the teacher really in his all
50:37kinds of complicated ways of doing it
50:38but all that he really says to him is
50:41but now
50:44if you will look deeply into your ego
50:48you will find out that it is a non-ego
50:50that your self is the universal self as
50:54he might say if he would have a dentist
50:56or if you were a Buddhist he might say
50:59if you look for your ego you won't find
51:02it so look for it and see and really go
51:06into it
51:09and so he gets the man meditating
51:13Trying by his ego to get rid of his ego
51:18well that is a beautiful trap it can
51:21last forever
51:23until one sees through it
51:27in other words this is like trying to
51:32uh
51:33you know
51:35sweep the darkness out of a room with a
51:37broom
51:39or its life gets worse than that
51:43drunk sir rather had a nice figure for
51:45it beating a drum in such a refugitive
51:48that's to say you know when the police
51:50go out because they've
51:52had a telephone call that was a burglar
51:54they uh come racing to the house of the
51:57siren full blast and the
52:00burglar hears it and runs away
52:03because of course
52:05to try and get rid of the ego for one's
52:09advantage in some ways an egotistic
52:10Enterprise and you can't do it
52:13and so of course the student gets to the
52:16point where he begins to realize that
52:18everything he does
52:21to get rid of his ego is egotistic
52:28and uh
52:31this is the kind of trap
52:34in which the teacher gets him
52:37until of course he comes to the point of
52:39seeing
52:40that uh
52:42his supposed division from himself into
52:45say I and me the controller controlling
52:49part of me and the controlled part of me
52:51the knower and the known and all that is
52:53is phony
52:54there is no way of standing aside from
52:57yourself in other words and as it were
52:59changing yourself in that way
53:02but he discovers this finally
53:05at the same time
53:07he discovers
53:09almost at the last minute you might say
53:12the
53:14fallacy
53:16or rather the
53:18fantasy nature
53:20the
53:21game like nature
53:24of the system
53:28of cosmology
53:29which has existed
53:32to
53:33as it were underpin or
53:37give the basic form of the social
53:40institutions of his
53:43particular culture or Society
53:48in other words you may put it in in
53:50another way one of the basic things
53:52which all
53:54social rules of convention conceal
53:58is what I would call
54:00the fundamental Fellowship between yes
54:03and no
54:05say in the Chinese symbolism of the
54:07positive and the negative The Young and
54:09the yin you know you've seen that symbol
54:11of them together like two interlocked
54:13fishes
54:16well the great game I mean the whole
54:18pretense of most societies that these
54:20two fishes are involved in a battle
54:21there's the up fish and the down fish
54:23the good fish and the bad fish
54:25and there's art for a killing and the
54:28white fish is one of these days going to
54:30slay the Blackfish
54:32but uh
54:34when you see into it clearly you realize
54:36that the white fish and the Blackfish go
54:38together they're twins they're really
54:40not fighting each other they're dancing
54:42with each other
54:45that you see though is a difficult thing
54:47to realize
54:50in a set of rules in which yes and no
54:52are the basic and formally opposed terms
54:58when it is explicit in a set of rules
55:00that yes and no are positive and
55:03negative of the fundamental principles
55:06it is implicit but not explicit that
55:09there is this fundamental bondage
55:12or Fellowship between the two
55:16theories you see that if people find
55:18that out
55:20they won't play the game anymore I mean
55:22supposing a certain social group finds
55:25out that it's enemy group
55:28which it's supposed to fight is really
55:32uh symbiotic to it that is to say the
55:36enemy group
55:39Fosters the survival
55:41of the group by pruning its population
55:45we'd never do to admit that we'd never
55:48never do to admit the advantage of the
55:50enemy just as George Orwell pointed out
55:51in his
55:53uh fantasy of the future in 1984.
55:56that uh
55:58as dictatorial Government
56:00has to have an enemy and if there isn't
56:02one it has to invent one
56:05and uh
56:08by this means by having somebody to
56:10fight you see having something to
56:11compete against
56:13the energy of society to go on doing its
56:16job is stirred up
56:19and what the Buddha or bodhisattva type
56:23of person fundamentally is was one he's
56:25one who's seen through that
56:27who doesn't have to be stirred up by
56:29hatred and fear and competition
56:32to go on with the game of life

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