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Alan Shepard, Academy Class of 1981, Full Interview — Transcript

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0:18I think first of all you have to be
0:20there for the right reason you have to
0:21be there not for the fame and glory and
0:24recognition and being a page in a
0:26history book that you have to believe
0:28there because you believe your talent
0:31and ability can be applied effectively
0:34to operation of spacecraft whether
0:37you're an astronomer a life scientists
0:39geophysicist or pilot you got to be that
0:43because you believe you're good and you
0:44in your field and you can contribute not
0:47because you you're going to get a lot of
0:49fame and whatever when you get back so
0:52that votive s appear to start with and
0:54then you have to be a fairly dedicated
0:57objective individual saying okay it is
1:01going to be dangerous and I'm going to
1:03spend my time worrying about what I do
1:05in practicing what I do at things go
1:08wrong in doing that you take the initial
1:11attitude of believing you can do it and
1:14you build a lot of confidence because
1:17particularly in the simulators if you
1:19respond to two or three horrible
1:21emergencies during the course of a
1:22morning and do that day in and day out
1:26for weeks and months it's a tremendous
1:29confidence builder some people could
1:34probably say it's brainwashing in his
1:36best form but it is a total total
1:40confidence at the time of launch because
1:43of the initial latitude and because of
1:45the training philosophies coping with
1:48contingencies
1:54I think all of us certainly believe the
1:57statistics which said that probably
2:01eighty eight percent of eighty-eight
2:03percent chance of mission success and
2:05maybe ninety six percent chance of
2:07survival and we were willing to take
2:12those odds but we wanted to be sure that
2:15if there are any failures in the machine
2:17that the man was going to be there to to
2:21take over and and to correct it and I
2:24think that still is true of this
2:27business which is basically research and
2:30development that you probably spend more
2:32time in planning and training and
2:34designing for things to go wrong and how
2:37you cope with them than you do for for
2:40things to go right
2:46I think I ran the whole gamut of
2:49emotions really the concern started when
2:53I woke up an hour before I was supposed
2:55to because I started going over in my
2:58mind the metal checklist about where do
3:01I go from here what do I do I'm not sure
3:05that I remember eating anything at all
3:07but getting into the suit going through
3:10the physical so one that was all wrote
3:12that we'd practice that so much that
3:16that I was ready for that the excitement
3:19really didn't start to build until the
3:23trailer which was carrying me with the
3:26space suit with a ventilation and all
3:28that sort of stuff pulled up at the
3:29launch pad I walked out and looked at
3:33that huge rocket redstone rocket for the
3:37first time of course it's not huge by
3:39today's standards but it seemed pretty
3:42big then and I thought well now there is
3:47that little rascal and and I gotta get
3:51up on top and fly that thing and you
3:54know pilots always go out to the
3:55airplanes and kick the tires before they
3:57fly nobody would let me get near the
3:59rocket to kick the fins but I kind of
4:02walked him around and thought well I
4:03good look at it because I'll never see
4:05that part of the machine again and then
4:08the excitement started building I think
4:10at that point fortunately in my case
4:14after I was strapped in and ready to go
4:18basically we had a hold because of a of
4:21a had a change of generator in the in
4:24the redstone rocket and I had a chance
4:27to sit back and relax a little bit and
4:29and again go through the process of what
4:32do I do for the first few minutes and
4:34first few seconds of the flight and so I
4:37was really pretty relaxed by the time
4:39that liftoff finally heard i guess my
4:42pulse really wasn't much over about a
4:44hundred and ten or so I forgotten
4:47exactly what it was but they buddy
4:49thought it was a pretty cool customer
4:51but at that point you're basically
4:54thinking about what do i do if this goes
4:57wrong what do I
4:57you of that goes wrong you know what
4:59critical things have to happen in
5:01sequence in some cases the fact that
5:05you're accelerating with the thrust of
5:07the rocket that's good it's very
5:09positive because you know the rocket is
5:12doing its job and it's doing it
5:14correctly but it's you know it's just
5:17going over a checklist of one apt to the
5:20other you've done the simulator so many
5:22times a sense of being excited you don't
5:25have that really when when the flight is
5:27going on excited before as soon as the
5:30liftoff occurs you're busy doing what
5:32you have to do I remember just reaching
5:35the apex of the trajectory was going to
5:37be in the middle of the weightlessness
5:39and I was looking at the periscope and
5:42and all of a sudden I said you know
5:44somebody's got to ask me how it feels to
5:46be weightless so he better pay attention
5:48to how it feels to be weightless so I
5:51was going through the motions of flying
5:53but at the same time trying to assess
5:55physiologically how I felt and was I
5:57dizzy or confused and so on and then I
6:00thought well something's got to ask me
6:02how the earth looks and so I looked down
6:04through the periscope which is all we
6:05had at that point and made a few remarks
6:08I think on the tape or perhaps on on the
6:11radio the view which I could see my
6:14ability to I said well now I got to get
6:16ready for re-entry so enough of that
6:19subjective thinking and get back to the
6:22objectivity required to get this baby
6:24oriented to come back in so you can see
6:27you could really go through a whole
6:29gamut of feelings of nervousness elation
6:35I mean obviously at that point I was
6:36delighted that rocket had worked
6:38perfectly and all I had to do was
6:40survive the reentry forces and you do it
6:44on a variety of like on that flight I
6:45rather short period of time just 16
6:47minutes as a matter of fact
6:53of course I was delighted the flight was
6:55over but I still had to worry about
6:57cleaning up inside the cabin I had to
6:59worry about what the hatch was going to
7:01be how to get in the sling and so on and
7:03the helicopter flying back to the
7:06carrier and saying thousands of sailors
7:09on the deck of the carrier being a Navy
7:11pilot having made hundreds of carrier
7:14landings already was sort of like coming
7:18home except that there they were
7:20cheering for me and that was a probably
7:23the really first moment the flight when
7:26I felt the emotion emotion of success
7:32perhaps pride and what I'd done and and
7:36that that was probably the first
7:38emotional moment of that whole flight
7:45oh absolutely absolutely cuz I was
7:48delighted when I was assigned command in
7:51the first Gemini flight with Tom
7:54Stafford is my co-pilot and it was
7:57shortly after that that I developed
7:59disorientation problem in my in my ear
8:02and NASA grounded me and I was grounded
8:06for almost six years didn't like it at
8:08all didn't like it at all but the
8:12prediction was that this problem which
8:15is called Meniere's syndrome causes
8:18dizziness nausea like a balance so on in
8:22some cases with correctable and I said
8:24well of course in my case it is going to
8:25be correctable obviously and the NASA
8:28guy said well we like his Shepherd you
8:32can be in charge of all the astronauts
8:33who can't fly obviously but who can fly
8:36with somebody else that I whenever I
8:38flew I was I'd to have somebody in a
8:39back seat here plane but so so I was
8:44sort of an administrative charge of the
8:46astronaut group and their training and
8:48so on and and sent him down pat him on
8:52the head and watch him fly that was that
8:54was a little tough
9:00I finally found a gent who corrected my
9:04ear problem surgically and after NASA
9:07looked at me for perhaps a year decided
9:11that I was that I was that well enough
9:14to fly again and that part I had some
9:18influence and crew selection so I was
9:22able to work out a deal where I could
9:25fly on the lunar mission the deal I
9:28tried to cut with NASA was to give me
9:30commander of Apollo 13 and they said oh
9:33no he can't do that you're too much of a
9:35political problem i said well now I've
9:37been training along with all these other
9:38guys and I'm ready to go and they said
9:41well we know that but the public doesn't
9:43know that so we'll make a deal with you
9:45will let you command Apollo 14 if you'll
9:48give us another crew for Apollo 13 so
9:51Slayton and I give another curtain of
9:54course 13 was the one that had all the
9:56problems on the way out the big
9:58explosion you remember the cliffhanger
10:00coming back so apparently i was getting
10:03some help from outside sources
10:12oh we got all kinds of flak from the
10:14guys the first place I hadn't blown
10:16anything since nineteen sixty one or it
10:18was ten years later right and the two
10:21guys with me had not flown before at all
10:23so they called us the three rookies I
10:26mean we had to put up with that this was
10:27an internal description obviously and
10:30then the fact that way said well you
10:32know old men shouldn't be up there in
10:34the moon and there was plenty not that
10:36there wasn't enough challenge to prove
10:38prove the point as it was but but that
10:42was part of the makeup of of all those
10:44guys and still you know they there's
10:47still a pretty competitive group but but
10:52it was it was you know again the gamut
10:59of emotions the gamut of feelings of
11:03course it was stretched out instead of
11:05being 16 minutes in freedom 7 it was
11:08stretched out to 10 days in a ball 14
11:11and they're obviously during the
11:14translunar and the trans earth phases a
11:17couple of days almost three days when
11:21you really could relax there are
11:22obviously tasks of navigation and
11:24unstoned getting ready and so on the
11:26dead to occur but really some some
11:29chance to look around and see what the
11:31earth look like and really get used to
11:33zero gravity and and really relaxed
11:37right pleasant Pleasant moments we had a
11:40couple of cliffhangers on Apollo 14 in
11:42the first place we tried to dock with
11:44the lunar module that didn't work so you
11:46know could have been the end of the deal
11:47but we finally got that organized and
11:50then the actual landing on the surface
11:53we were supposed to get an update from
11:55the lining radar we couldn't go blow
11:5813,000 feet that came in only at the
12:01last minute so there were a lot of
12:02mineral nervous things that kept you
12:05awake all 08 out until you landed but
12:08then you're there he say well then we
12:09kind of take off for a couple of days so
12:11let's relax and enjoy and I was going
12:14about the little chores of getting ready
12:15and it came to a rest period and then
12:17looked looked up at the earth for the
12:21first time really seeing it
12:24in the black sky the blue planet all by
12:30itself up there and that was an
12:32emotional moment for me as well I think
12:36certainly some of the emotion was as a
12:38result of having successfully arrived a
12:42little sense of relief there but most of
12:47us I think all of us in our way have
12:49expressed the same kind of feeling
12:52seeing the earth even though it's four
12:54times as large as the moon still that
12:58looks fragile still it looks small you
13:01think it's pretty big when you're back
13:03there among your friends and story by
13:05thousand miles around and so on but from
13:08that distance you realize it is in fact
13:10it is in fact fragile it is in fact a
13:13small part only of our solar system much
13:16less the rest of the universe and I
13:18think all of us have expressed that some
13:21perhaps a more political overtones and
13:23others to the degree where maybe if
13:28people had a chance to see this they
13:30wouldn't be so parochial they wouldn't
13:33be so interested in their own particular
13:35territories that will come in time I
13:38think I think people perhaps we could
13:41take the Security Council and put them
13:44on the space station and let them try to
13:46see where their little bailiwick is and
13:51that you know those things those things
13:53will come in time I think but to me and
13:55I think to all of us it was a
13:57realization that it is it is finite it
14:01is small it is fragile and we need to
14:03start thinking about how to take care of
14:05it
14:10first plane ride was in a homemade
14:12glider my buddy and I built
14:14unfortunately we didn't get more than
14:16four feet off the ground because it
14:18crashed but first legitimate airplane
14:24ride was when I was working at the at
14:27the local airport and as a reward
14:30partial reward for from my activities
14:33which was given a ride as a passenger
14:35and after two or three those the same
14:39pilot he gave me a chance to play with
14:42the controls and that's when it really
14:44all started I think my interest in
14:47aviation goes back to grade school 910
14:52early teens when I Lindbergh's made his
14:56flight he was the big hero I started
15:00building model airplanes later in early
15:03teens I used to ride my bike every
15:06Saturday morning to the nearest airport
15:0710 miles away push airplanes and how the
15:10hangars and clean up the hangars get a
15:12free ride once in a while get to hold a
15:16stick once in a while and that's when my
15:19interest in aviation really started at
15:23that particular point it wasn't there
15:27were really no aviation schools as they
15:30have nowadays it was not a lot of
15:33commercial aviation but a friend of my
15:36father's who was graduated of Annapolis
15:40we're talking about it one day and he
15:43said you know little Alan is fairly
15:46bright guy and he could probably pass
15:50the entrance exams the Naval Academy if
15:52he studied a little bit and you know the
15:56Navy is just starting their Air Arm and
16:00if he could go the naval academy then he
16:03could get flight training and then he
16:05could become an aviator and use his
16:09talents well the chap was right I guess
16:12I did apply myself properly I passed the
16:14entrance exams got the appointment and
16:18and it just went from there
16:26I thought I was pretty normal because we
16:29did chores around the farm that involved
16:32in my own newspaper route to make money
16:35to buy a bicycle and toward the end of
16:39the fourth and fifth and sixth grades I
16:42started building model airplanes course
16:46in our grade school in those days there
16:48were no organized sports at all we just
16:50went out and ran around the schoolyard
16:51for recess no organized sports of any
16:55kind through through the early grades so
16:59I suppose I fire was fall I was pretty
17:01normal and I did what I had to do around
17:03home and did what I had to do in school
17:05I didn't mind studying of course some
17:08obviously math and the physical science
17:13subjects interested me more than maybe
17:15some of the more artistic subjects but I
17:20think I was a pretty good student
17:22obviously the teacher thought so
17:30no I didn't
17:32when I was in the one room country
17:35school you described I guess the my
17:39ambition at that point was to get
17:41through and get through wood with a
17:43creditable performance really of course
17:46nobody thought about astronauts in those
17:48days but I didn't even really start
17:51thinking about airplanes very much when
17:54I was in grade school I saw that
17:55interest so that came later on but if
17:58you know it even in those days a
18:00one-room country school with one teacher
18:04sixth grades was unusual and I think it
18:08was because of course I came from a
18:09rural community and and that was the
18:12school of of that particular day I think
18:18it was beneficial to me because the fact
18:22that one grade was not reciting
18:25continuously obviously doing a little
18:27studying so on and so i think i learned
18:29more in the first grade about the second
18:31grade and consequently i only spent five
18:34years there now I like to say I was
18:36smart enough to finish sixth grades in
18:38five years but I think perhaps the
18:40teacher was just glad to get rid of me
18:42at that point
18:48I would think the answer to that would
18:50have to be that one lady teacher in
18:54grade school all 6th grades one room 25
18:58students she was about nine feet tall as
19:02I recall in a very tough disciplinary
19:06and always had the ruler ready to hike
19:08the knuckles if somebody got out of hand
19:11and she just really ran a very well
19:16disciplined group and it's interesting I
19:20think most of the youngsters responded
19:23to that they were wanted to that
19:25couldn't handle it and obviously they
19:28dropped by the wayside but that that
19:31still sticks out of my mind that's
19:33that's the lady that taught me out a
19:35study and and really provided that kind
19:39of discipline which is essentially still
19:41with me
19:47I think certainly some of the
19:50characteristics which were helpful to me
19:52in the aviation business and the
19:56astronaut business were developed in
19:59those days first of all the home life
20:01came from a family of hard workers
20:06achievers two certainly some degree in
20:10that small pond and then the teacher who
20:14was bigger than life itself and very
20:17strict in those days and I think the the
20:22sense of family and family achievement
20:25plus the discipline which I received
20:29their from from that one room school
20:31we're really very helpful in what I did
20:33later on
20:39obviously I was challenged by becoming a
20:41naval aviator by landing aboard aircraft
20:44carriers and so on but you know in those
20:47days I figured while I was just one of
20:48those guys that was doing his job and
20:50maybe I could roll the airplane a little
20:52Berlin next guy but but when I was
20:55selected after my very first tour of
21:00squadron duty to become one of the
21:02youngest candidates for the test pilot
21:04school then all of a sudden I began to
21:06realize hey maybe you are a little bit
21:10better than somebody else or maybe
21:13you're just doing your job better than
21:15the next guy you may not have any extra
21:18talent but maybe you just paying more
21:21attention to what you're doing and I
21:22really think that's when I realized that
21:26that I was a sort of person that was
21:28objective enough and dedicated enough to
21:32do a good job and of course then the
21:34challenge to keep doing better and
21:36better to to fly the best test flight
21:41that anybody ever flown and and and
21:44obviously that led to my being
21:47recognized as one of the more
21:49experienced test pilots in that led to
21:52the astronaut business
22:00was my fact that's kind of a cute little
22:02story because at the same time the
22:05invitations to volunteer were sent out
22:08it was an article in New York Times that
22:11said 110 top military test pilots chosen
22:17by NASA to become space pioneers and as
22:22I read the article and I said gosh you
22:25know I fulfill homies qualifications I
22:29wonder where my hip rotation is I was on
22:31a Friday afternoon and no imitation
22:35there's my fact that was a rather
22:38miserable weekend until I found out
22:41first thing Monday morning that the mail
22:43had been misplaced in this Admiral staff
22:46where I was stationed at the time and
22:49the telegram was was delivered to me
22:51monday morning so was kind of a weekend
22:54of saying gosh I wonder why they didn't
22:57choose me obviously I'm highly qualified
22:59in these particular areas but everything
23:03turned out fine and and we were given
23:07the opportunity to go to Washington be
23:10briefed on the project of man in space
23:14and given the opportunity to choose
23:17whether they want to get involved or not
23:18and was interesting that some of the
23:20some of the chaps are a little more
23:22mature with the same qualifications but
23:27we're thinking more of their career in
23:30the Navy of the air force military and
23:32they were simple who chose not to get
23:35involved and I think not because of the
23:38fear of failure but rather because it
23:43was a career deviation as a matter of
23:47fact we talked about some people being
23:50skeptic when I was finally selected made
23:55the finals one of seven NASA folks said
24:00well no you'd better call your parents
24:03and let them know what you've been doing
24:04because you your name is going to be the
24:07paper tomorrow
24:08so I called and and mother was delighted
24:12but my father took the attitude well
24:14know what is this you're going to do son
24:17because he could see a deviation in the
24:21military career in which I had been
24:23relatively successful up until that
24:26point and even at that age gosh I was
24:30what 35 years old then give or take and
24:34when your old man says you're going to
24:37do what son is a little pause and
24:40reflection fortunately in my case he
24:43lived long enough to see me go to the
24:45moon and back and one evening we'd had
24:50dinner the ladies had retired and we
24:54were having a drink in front of the fire
24:55and he said you remember when I said
24:57what he going to do sun-hi said yes sir
25:01I already do it he said well I was wrong
25:08I think she was all for it because you
25:12know being a test by Liz and I was the
25:14healthiest business in the world and I'd
25:18been involved in testing off and on for
25:20six or seven years and flying strange
25:23airplanes higher than faster than we
25:25could talk about in those days anyway
25:27and having done it reasonably
25:31successfully you know they say any
25:34landing you can walk away from was a
25:36good one that sort of thing I think she
25:39knew I think she knew immediately that I
25:41would volunteer for
25:48all of us trained and trained so that
25:51we're probably in the best physical
25:52condition we never been in up until that
25:55point beyond that in the early days we
25:59all were given certain areas of
26:01responsibility for example because of my
26:03naval background I was assigned to be
26:07responsive to the engineers on a naval
26:10recovery recovery in the water
26:13contingencies what do you do four things
26:14sinks that sort of stuff others were
26:17involved in the tracking system others
26:19were involved in propulsion systems the
26:22rocket as a specialty area and we worked
26:25for the engineers in the design and
26:28construction and testing phases in those
26:31various areas then we get back together
26:33at the end of the week and brief each
26:34other as to what had gone on so even
26:37though we're there competing with each
26:39other for the first for the first ride
26:41we were still acting as a team and
26:44helping each other in those days
26:50I don't know and the chap who made the
26:54final decision Bob Geer Ruth who was a
26:56director of the manned spacecraft Center
26:59in those days as never has never told me
27:03he just said that well you just were the
27:07right guy at the right time and I guess
27:11that's how it all happened I was the
27:13right guy at the right time
27:22or do anything else you want to do I'm a
27:25firm believer that obviously and this
27:28early a message here for me still
27:33because using the days in space as an
27:39example we were not always successful
27:42and when I say we I mean the NASA team
27:45they were to really serious lapses of
27:50concentration a little bit of
27:56overconfidence perhaps a little bit of
28:01lack of attention to duty some little
28:04insidious things that happened you've
28:07got this great team of dedicated
28:08qualified people but yet they get a
28:11little bit complacent and boom pretty
28:16soon something goes wrong that's always
28:19been a good lesson to me that you've got
28:23to do the very best you can all the time
28:25now you can't always do that but you can
28:28always try to recognize when you are
28:30goofing off and get back on track it's a
28:35very insidious kind of thing but if you
28:37look for the signals they're there if
28:40you're a little bit late for work leave
28:43a little bit early I don't have to do
28:45that tonight because I can do it
28:47tomorrow these are the signs that I'm
28:49talking about and they eventually lead
28:51to bad decisions they eventually lead to
28:53lack of performance and if you really
28:56want to do something you've got to keep
28:59analyzing yourself so you don't fall
29:01into that little insidious trap and you
29:04don't get back on your heels and you
29:06don't get complacent because there are a
29:08lot of people out there they're going to
29:10run right over you on the way to the
29:11same target
29:17well it was sort of a last minute
29:19decision and the reason behind it was
29:24that there was some some belief that the
29:29escape tower might not separate from the
29:34top of the spacecraft but then you get
29:36down to 25,000 feet or so down a
29:39terminal velocity and you're not gonna
29:41be able to get the parachutes out
29:42because these gape tower is still on so
29:46he said well let's go ahead we put a
29:49little chest back right there and there
29:52was and we practiced it was enough time
29:54to hook the chest back on undo the
29:56straps open the door jump out and come
30:00down the personal parachute it was just
30:02a tertiary means of getting out
30:11a lot of times people have said over the
30:14years boy you really must have been
30:18scared and you say no fortunately I
30:23wasn't scared nervous but not frightened
30:26to death because if you have a person
30:28there whose petrified he's not going to
30:30be any good as a pilot as a backup as an
30:33observer whatever his function is going
30:35to be there has to be a belief a
30:38dedication to training to the point
30:41where you just absolutely not panicked
30:48it's similar only to the degree that we
30:51were able to design into the system that
30:54a certain movement of the stick was
30:57going to give you some kind of a
30:59familiar response in the instruments
31:02because it didn't fly like an airplane
31:05you didn't have any kind of a feedback
31:07of the faster you went the more
31:09difficult it was to move the stick and
31:11that sort of thing so really although
31:17the way the pilot looked at his cues of
31:22attitude and speed and orientation so on
31:25and responded like he would do from the
31:28same cues in an airplane it just didn't
31:30was no way it flew the same and the
31:33simulator showed us that they showed us
31:36that we just had to forget about
31:38thinking about wing tips and and looking
31:43out through the through the nose the
31:45airplane that sort of thing it just
31:46wasn't going to be that
31:52I have the opportunity to be with him on
31:54several occasions before he died a
31:58couple of times at the white house state
32:01dinner type functions and then perhaps
32:04the most memorable visit with him was
32:07really spontaneous it was prior to the
32:11launch of Apollo 11 which we all know
32:14was the first lunar landing and I was
32:17there with my family in the VIP section
32:20standing off by myself just sort of
32:22reflecting on what had happened and what
32:25would happen and this gentleman came up
32:28and rough clothes with a sale hat turned
32:31upside down and it reads himself of
32:33course I knew right away who he was and
32:35we had about 30 minutes of recollecting
32:39what he had done and what that had meant
32:42early aviation well I think we talked
32:45more in terms of of them being
32:50pioneering efforts because nowadays we
32:53call it research pushing out the
32:56frontiers but recognizing that the
33:00contributions of those early days of
33:02aviation and like with me the early days
33:05of space what it meant to the general
33:09public when these new innovative
33:12airplanes a new innovative spacecraft
33:14and the brains that developed on the
33:16science that has developed from that and
33:20how that filtered into everybody's
33:21everyday life and interestingly enough
33:24it was about at that point where he was
33:28becoming interested in the interaction
33:29between technology and the environment
33:31you know you may recall that that was
33:34the thrust of his of the later years of
33:37his life and we talked about that a
33:40little bit too was but it was a really a
33:42very exciting thing for me to have the
33:45opportunity to be with him and one on
33:48one like that talking about our favorite
33:50subjects and fortunately my my girls
33:53were there and they had a chance to meet
33:55him also so it was a very memorable day
33:57for us as well as for Neil Armstrong and
33:59Buzz Aldrin and Mike Collins
34:06I have never really felt except perhaps
34:10at moments like this when it's obvious
34:13in retrospect that I did make some
34:16historical contributions during the
34:20actual process of flying spacecraft or
34:23flying spirit of st. Louis one doesn't
34:26think of oneself as being a hero or a
34:30historical figure one does it because
34:33the challenge is there and and one
34:35fields reasonably qualified to to
34:39accomplish it and it's later on I
34:42suppose perhaps at the suggestion of
34:44other people that say well yes maybe I
34:47must admit maybe I am a piece of history
34:51after all
34:57oh absolutely but not from the
35:01standpoint of contribution to history
35:04from the standpoint of an individual
35:06response to a challenge which of course
35:09in our case was a highly technical
35:11challenge and I think in the early days
35:16particularly we didn't ever envision
35:19ourselves as receiving the attention and
35:22publicity which we did because there
35:25were a lot of skeptics in the early days
35:26of the space business half the people
35:30thought it was exciting and rather
35:32positive and and the other half thought
35:34that generally were fairly crazy to be
35:36doing doing it sort of thing so I think
35:40in the early days and this is probably
35:43probably a lesson promised probably a
35:48lesson there in that if a person shows
35:51up to fly an airplane or a spacecraft or
35:59to conduct some surgical technique then
36:05or to be the greatest lawyer in a
36:08certain field then he has to be there
36:11because it's a challenge to him
36:12personally he knows he can do a good job
36:14and he can't be thinking of whether he's
36:17going to be a hero or whether he's going
36:20to be a bum as a result of what he's
36:23doing in other words a person to be
36:25successful I think has to be there
36:27because he knows he's equipped to do a
36:29job he's challenged by the job and
36:31that's really the reason why he's there
36:38we had a ball up there because
36:41everything was essentially the way we
36:44envisioned it everything was essentially
36:47the way we had practiced for it we
36:51laughed and giggled and bounced around
36:52and I think almost everybody did the
36:56only problem the old man had was we
37:00didn't have that fancy little car you
37:02know the first three flights had to had
37:05to walk with a little golf cart and they
37:08had assigned us a landing area close to
37:11a fairly large crater about a mile away
37:13which had about a 15 degree slope she
37:17approached the top of it and it was sort
37:19of like trying to climb a sand dune in
37:22the in the desert like I should take one
37:23step and your foot slips back and so it
37:27really got physically to be difficult to
37:29forest finally we just picked up the
37:32golf cart and carried it up the hill
37:34rather than try to drag it over the
37:36rocks so that was a little bit of a
37:39surprise also we had a difficulty in
37:43defining the rim of the crater to which
37:45we were supposed to to to walk and I
37:51think the problem there was that because
37:54of the shadows it appeared in the
37:57photographs to be a very sharp rim
37:59wearing as matter of fact over millions
38:01of billions of years of meteorites it
38:04was fairly well rounded so we didn't
38:06actually recognize it as being a
38:07precipitous type of although we were
38:10there at the rim we collected samples
38:12from the ejected boulders we really he
38:16didn't realize that we were specifically
38:18right there at it but outside of that we
38:21had we got everything accomplished all
38:25the samples obviously whispering lined
38:27and closer than any of the other five
38:28landings and we brought back the oldest
38:31rocks you know how those things are I
38:33was really very pleased and at the end
38:37of the of the second mission I played
38:42with a little device that I had received
38:44clearance to play with before that was a
38:47makeshift golf club liked a couple of
38:49golf balls up there all of us wanted
38:52to try to think of something which would
38:54interest perhaps young people primarily
38:56in the in the difference in the gravity
38:59the gravity is only one-sixth the lack
39:02of atmosphere this is absolutely total
39:04vacuum up there and some of the other
39:07guys the clever guys before I said drop
39:09the little lead ball and the feather and
39:11watch them slowly preceded exactly the
39:14same right to the surface and some
39:16imagination had been used before and I'm
39:21being a golfer thought well now if I
39:23could just get a club up there and get
39:29going threw the ball at the same speed
39:31that it was going to go six times as far
39:33as it should have gone here on the earth
39:35so I said about we designed to design
39:38the club head to fit on a handle which
39:40we head up there to scoop up dust
39:42samples with and I cleared it with the
39:45with the powers that be we practiced in
39:48a space suit before we went to be sure
39:49there were no safety implications and
39:54the deal I made and in the final
39:56analysis with the boss was that if
39:59things were kind of messed up on the
40:02surface then I wouldn't play with it
40:04because obviously we'd be accused of
40:06being too frivolous but if things had
40:09gone well which they did and the last
40:11thing I was going to do before climbing
40:14up the ladder to come home was to whack
40:16these new golf balls which I did and I
40:18folded up the collapsible golf club and
40:22brought it back with me the golf balls
40:24are still up there perhaps the
40:27youngsters of today will go up and play
40:29golf with them sometime 25 or 30 years
40:32from now
40:37I didn't volunteer to become a hero and
40:42I certainly think in the early days none
40:44of us realized what the positive
40:47response would be with respect to those
40:50of us who were the first to fly the
40:52first orbit the first Elaine of the moon
40:54there have been a handful of us of
40:56course that have been singled out
40:58because we were the first to whatever
41:03and becoming a public figure overnight
41:07was a little difficult at first I guess
41:10first of all it wasn't because it was
41:13because I didn't really expected it all
41:17of a sudden realizing that people who
41:19wanted autographs didn't always ask at
41:22the right time that they weren't how was
41:25polite that they sort of I guess in our
41:28case pretty we were public property
41:30because they were taxpayers and we
41:33appreciated their contributions but I
41:35mean then I had a little difficulty with
41:37that then I and then and then I monday
41:41was looking at some film which was the
41:47presentation of a medal from president
41:49kennedy to me in the Rose Garden and I
41:53made a few brief remarks afterward and I
41:58said in the sense it was really not
42:02because of my individual effort but
42:04really because the efforts of the
42:06dedicated people had worked with us on
42:08the program over the years and I said
42:11you know you really meant that when you
42:14said that and I think that if you really
42:18appreciate what these people have done
42:20then you will respond with a very
42:23positive image to what degree of
42:29attention and adulation you're getting
42:31at that point from there on out it's
42:34been it's been relatively easy for me to
42:37understand why it's happened and to try
42:41to be reasonably positively responsive
42:44to it well we we when I say way
42:49my wife and I have have always tried to
42:54explain to the girls even when I had to
42:56go off on nine-month cruises in the
42:58Mediterranean or in the Pacific why I
43:01was doing it and what it was all about
43:05that that I felt that I could contribute
43:08to the military is a favorite family
43:14story that we still laugh about I had my
43:18wife and the three girls aboard ship one
43:20night dinner in the officers mess and of
43:24course everything the white table clause
43:26in the silver and and the stewards and
43:29the whole thing and I was on duty that
43:32night so when they left I still stayed
43:34on board and one of the girls said they
43:38were riding back they said mommy how
43:40come daddy is so rich and we're so poor
43:44but we always tried to share experiences
43:47with them it was a little more difficult
43:49for them after the astronaut business I
43:54think but they've responded well all
43:57three are happy happily married with
44:02their youngsters and in there all three
44:05you know kind of gun Hodel girls they're
44:08not just happy home wreckers and they
44:10are of course but they're all
44:12involvement little projects of their own
44:13because they're challenged by wanting to
44:16help local charities or wanting to start
44:20a business or things like that I think
44:23they've turned out reasonably well
44:30well if it's the one thing obviously it
44:36had to have been being selected to make
44:40the first manned spaceflight for the
44:42united states that was competition its
44:48best and i say this again not because of
44:53the fame that recognition that came with
44:55it but because of the fact that the
44:59world's best of the americas best test
45:02pilots been pre-selected selection
45:04process own zone and down to seven guys
45:08and of those seven i was the first one
45:11to go on that that has to be always will
45:16be I guess Oh satisfying thing for me
45:24well I would think I would have to say
45:25that they have to know deep down inside
45:28and something that they really want to
45:30do themselves it's not to please mommy
45:34or daddy not to please Uncle Harry
45:37because he did this daddy did that and
45:41the they made those pressures may
45:44eventually lead the individual to decide
45:46within themselves that that's what they
45:49really want to do that has to be there
45:52it has to be because you know you're
45:58qualified to do it and if you apply
46:00yourself you can do it and again if
46:06there is going to be fame or fortune
46:08involved you can't do it for those
46:12purposes because if you do it for fame
46:15if you do it for fortune they're both
46:18very bad appetites because you never get
46:20enough of Fame we never get enough of
46:24fortune but if you do it as an objective
46:26and you reach the point where for the
46:29moment you're satisfied and that gives
46:32you the confidence to go on to the next
46:35objective that's what I would say the
46:37young people let me make a little pitch
46:43you know it's been interesting over the
46:45years in talking to the average layman
46:50about space and of course there's always
46:54the initial interest in the excitement
46:57and so you go through how exciting it
47:00was because it was exciting to them as
47:02well as to us and then some perhaps more
47:06perceptive people say well now really
47:09what was the value of going to the moon
47:13when you strip away all the excitement
47:15at glamour how about this millions of
47:20dollars we spent sending you up there
47:22and I sell now wait a minute you
47:25realized that I went to the moon and
47:26back and I didn't leave a single dollar
47:29up there and they said well I waited all
47:32these millions of dollars every single
47:35dollar that was spent of the space
47:36program went into the pockets of the end
47:38of
47:38who worked on it the contractors the
47:42subcontractors the vendors is owned and
47:46I say yeah I went to feed their children
47:48put clothes in the back side of the
47:50school said yeah I guess that's right
47:53that's what but I bought all this
47:55high-tech stuff that your left up there
47:57and I said well yeah we isn't pretty
47:59sophisticated materials up there but you
48:02probably couldn't get five cents in the
48:04dollar form today however the people who
48:07develop that are still here on the earth
48:09and the research and development
48:12techniques that they developed for that
48:15are here and that's being used today to
48:18improve your communication satellite
48:20communications so on and so forth so no
48:24yeah so the real value of this is
48:28technology they said well that's fine
48:31but let's take it one step further says
48:33I the one thing that we do in the United
48:37States today better than any other
48:40country in the world still is to build a
48:42better mousetrap our level of technology
48:45is still better than Soviets by far
48:47better than the Japanese surprisingly
48:50enough we still build a better mousetrap
48:52and if we're going to be the leaders of
48:54the world if we're going to worry about
48:56trade balance if we're going to worry
48:57about perhaps military systems or
49:00perhaps solving the problems the
49:01environment we're going to have to
49:03continue to spend money on research
49:05medical research as well we do that best
49:09and I think it's important for
49:11youngsters who have a meant to a
49:13technology and science not to get
49:16sidetracked in the high-paying jobs like
49:19lawyers and doctors brokers and so on
49:21that's important but there's still a
49:23need for any youngster who has any
49:25scientific interest at all to continue
49:29the lead that we have in technology in
49:31the world today if we're interested in
49:32the future of the United States
49:40well I really hadn't thought too much
49:42about of course we traveled a lot we've
49:44seen the whole world from from a
49:47distance I've seen a lot of some
49:50beautiful countries I've seen of course
49:54artifacts pyramids Great Wall I suppose
49:59maybe maybe the top of Mount Everest
50:03might be a neat place to go sometime if
50:07I didn't have to climb up there if I
50:10could just all of a sudden be put on the
50:12top of Mount Everest that'd be pretty
50:13exciting
50:21you

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