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AI vs Human Adviser: Who Do You Trust with Family Conflict? (S5E22) — Transcript

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0:01[music]
0:03Hi everyone, welcome back to another
0:05episode of Providence Money Wisdom
0:07podcast. I'm your host Isaac, client
0:08advisor at Provident. Today marks the
0:11fourth episode of our podcast series
0:12titled, "Can AI replace a human
0:15adviser?" In this series, we look at
0:17case studies of clients who are going
0:18through major life events and we put AI
0:21to the test against our client advisor.
0:23We analyze what AI gets right, where it
0:25can go dangerously wrong, and why human
0:28advice still matters. Joining me today
0:30is Eleanor M, associate director, client
0:33adviser, and author of this article
0:35titled, "Can AI replace a human advisor
0:38in family conflicts?" Hi, Eleanor. Great
0:40to have you here today.
0:41>> Hi, Azac. How are you doing this
0:42morning?
0:43>> I'm doing well. I'm doing well. So,
0:45before we start, to all our viewers, if
0:47you haven't read the article, we highly
0:48recommend that you check it out through
0:50the link in the description below. The
0:52article uses a case study of a couple
0:54Waying who is a second generation owner
0:57of a family manufacturing business and
0:59Melin who runs her own small interior
1:02design studio. They recently faced
1:05tensions due to deferring values around
1:07money and long-term financial planning.
1:09And the article puts AI to the test to
1:12see whether it can replace a human
1:13adviser in managing this major
1:15conundrum. It's a very well-ritten piece
1:17by Eleanor. So, please do check it out.
1:20>> Thank you. So Eleanor, let's start with
1:22what AI does well, right? So the article
1:25mentioned that chat GBT is impressive in
1:28how it brings structure and clarity.
1:30[snorts] When a couple like women and me
1:32are in conflict, how does AI help
1:35establish a common language for their
1:37financial conversation?
1:39>> Yeah, it's helpful in bringing structure
1:40to an otherwise uh emotion and
1:42conversation. Most couple generally is
1:44not that they fundamentally disagree
1:46with one another. it's just that they
1:48don't have the MySpace to articulate
1:51what is uh what is their preferences in
1:54terms of their long-term financial goal.
1:56So AI is good in that sense that it
1:58actually provides something that's
1:59actually visible instead of something
2:01that actually looks like vague concern
2:03is able to then uh provide this clarity
2:06in terms of what their goals is and this
2:08could be in the area of like retirement,
2:10children's education, uh lifestyle
2:12goals, expenditure etc. And it then uh
2:15directs them to think about what is it
2:17they want like for example uh children's
2:19education what universities then there
2:21about providing they uh the the knowhow
2:24you know like how much to save and so on
2:26so forth
2:27>> right um and more specifically CH GBT
2:31also identified specific risk in waying
2:34portfolio such as ill liquidity of his
2:36business shares uh and equity
2:39concentration
2:40>> right so how you describe the value of
2:42having an AI I performed this objective
2:46review of his family's finances. Well,
2:49there's actually real value in having
2:50that objective objectivity because
2:53sometimes uh as families we are so
2:56emotionally attached to the assets that
2:58we have and uh AI is able to uh put that
3:01all together in like a structured in
3:03like a net worth position and that
3:05actually provides clarity in terms of
3:08looking at what kind of assets that we
3:09have and uh how liquid the assets uh it
3:12is. It is uh not uncommon for us to have
3:16clients whereby when they actually come
3:17to us they have got assets uh in
3:20residential home in res investments
3:22property to them is like we says okay uh
3:25this and with very little uh cash
3:28holdings and they want to retire but uh
3:31if you were to look at the assets itself
3:34it is a illquid property assets but they
3:36may not realize that because one is to
3:38stay and the other one is giving them
3:40rental income.
3:42Right. So in summary, AI uh is good
3:45because it gives structure. It serves as
3:47this neutral third party and it's able
3:50to give a very objective advice to
3:53people who um need it instantly. Right.
3:56>> Yeah. So let's go with um you know the
3:59pain points of using AI.
4:01>> Right. So you noted that AI
4:02recommendations can feel overly
4:05prescriptive and um so why might AI's
4:09tendency to move immediately into
4:11execution
4:12>> road maps be counterproductive for a
4:14couple experiencing financial tension?
4:17In this case, the AI assumes that the
4:20couple is actually ready for
4:21solutioning. But uh in in the area of
4:24family conflicts, uh it is not yet
4:28because um when it actually goes into
4:30the solutioning, you are actually
4:32providing the solutions even before the
4:34couple has verbalize their concerns. So
4:37when actually comes to family conflict,
4:39um most times it's not about the
4:41financial numbers. It is about what each
4:43of them care about in terms of what is
4:45actually uh important to them. So um in
4:48financial planning it's not just about
4:50numbers you know what is actually a
4:52right um uh solutions but it is actually
4:56whether the numbers uh the
4:58recommendation is actually something
4:59that's actually right to the people.
5:01Okay take for example if the a client
5:04tells you uh I've got this uh amount of
5:07uh financial resources should I pay down
5:09my loan? Right? So it is not a simple
5:14answer as to yes and no. We want to know
5:17um how comfortable they are with
5:19leverage uh with the financial depths
5:22that they have. Is are they able to
5:24sleep well at night? Okay. And if they
5:26were to uh pay off the loan will that
5:28provide them sufficient financial
5:30resources that they able to then
5:32accumulate towards their core financial
5:34goals like for example retirement. All
5:36right. We also want to know what is the
5:37financial ratios. We also wants to know
5:39how uh stable is the job and so on so
5:42forth. So it is making sure that the
5:45information is actually right or the
5:48solution is actually right for the
5:49people. So that actually goes back into
5:51having a deep conversation so that we
5:53actually understand you know what is
5:55actually unique about the clients uh
5:58what is their um personal nonsense and
6:00it's able to then uh provide the basis
6:04and clarity before we move into the
6:06planning part.
6:07>> Right. And in the context of a family
6:09conflict right so using the example that
6:10you have cited um let's say uh waying or
6:15like uh you know waying wants to pay
6:17down the mortgage right his relationship
6:19is that
6:20>> uh is is different from me's
6:23relationship with that
6:24>> so uh could you elaborate more on uh why
6:28you know just providing a solution might
6:30not work and you know uh not really
6:34solve this family conflict between them
6:37Uh well we have to actually find out
6:39about uh how the views about uh the the
6:42mortgage about the loan. All right. So
6:45um it is uh by actually asking
6:47thoughtful questions we are then
6:48actually able to bring up uh what is
6:50their um what is their views about and
6:53values about money about finances about
6:55spending about exp uh expenditure. So by
6:58actually listening in and then uh
7:00thereafter we are able to then craft up
7:03the uh recommendation and then looking
7:05at the long-term goal we are able to put
7:07everything together then that is
7:09actually where it is actually something
7:10that actually makes sense to them.
7:12>> Right. Right. Yeah definitely. I think
7:14when it comes to these sort of things
7:16you know it's uh you know giving just
7:18the solution of like okay if you pay
7:20down your mortgage this is how much you
7:21will save over the long run this is the
7:23risk you know of higher interest rates.
7:25uh but it doesn't address the core uh
7:28issue right is really is that it's
7:30different values between a couple right
7:33so yeah I think you make a great point
7:35uh you know about how you know AI
7:37wouldn't be able to address
7:39>> the emotional side of things the value
7:41side of things right beyond just giving
7:43solutions
7:44>> and um maybe something to add is that
7:46what is actually interesting about AI is
7:48that uh they will take on what they have
7:50actually inputed you know if I were to
7:52go back to the article uh what uh From
7:55waving's perspective, he mentioned that
7:57um uh the stress actually surrounds
7:59about his business being illquid and AI
8:02actually catches that you know and AI
8:04confirmed that the the business is
8:06actually very liquid illquid
8:09>> and that is that is true but question is
8:11that you know when it actually comes to
8:13uh family business it it comes with it
8:16uh heavy responsibility because it's not
8:18just a personal or investments assets it
8:21is actually something that is uh you
8:24know a legacy um you know a identity to
8:27him and they actually comes with
8:29responsibility as well. you know as a
8:31second generation uh uh business owner
8:34uh he has got responsibility uh to maybe
8:37a long-term serving um employees and he
8:40has got also accountability to the prior
8:43generations that has actually input so
8:45much sweat capital into building the
8:47business
8:49>> right definitely so I can imagine uh you
8:51know to be honest I don't know which is
8:53worse right one is the first generation
8:55is still around yeah
8:56>> right and then uh of course uh when it
8:59comes to making a decision on divesting
9:01for example it's probably not going to
9:04be a very easy conversation at home
9:06>> very very tough
9:07>> but even if they are not around anymore
9:09[clears throat] right but perhaps you
9:11know the memories of [snorts]
9:13>> um the first generation owners res is is
9:16still
9:17>> um tight very tight to the business
9:19right so AI really struggles to to
9:22understand the nuance in uh these sort
9:24of situations
9:25>> definitely so so in in having a
9:28conversation with your clients we I want
9:30to provide equal uh platform for both
9:33couples to verbalize. So in this case uh
9:36Wiming is a second generation business
9:39family business owner and uh mailing
9:41herself she's also a business owner but
9:44in terms of uh the weightage of the
9:47business as a family business versus a
9:49first generation runner uh a family
9:51business uh way mailing may think that
9:54okay all right so if I would sell the
9:56business I can always start another one
9:57but for
9:59>> waying it's actually very different
10:00because if his parents is still around
10:03imagine going back and facing of that to
10:05say is that chat GPT asked me to sell
10:07off 40%.
10:10[laughter]
10:11>> And that is for my retirement.
10:13>> Okay. It is going to be very very tough.
10:15So um I come from a family of uh my my
10:18dad runs a business and then uh in my
10:20growing up years my siblings are
10:22involved in uh running a business. So
10:25dinner time is a time whereby um my dad
10:28and my siblings will actually sit to
10:30talk about business, talk about work
10:31itself. So you can I can actually see
10:34that business is so very much of him and
10:36he's so marriage uh uh uh he's so very
10:40much a part of the business. So for
10:42divestment is indeed it actually comes
10:45with financial consequences and
10:47emotional consequences. So uh that has
10:50to be thought through because it self
10:52divestments comes with complexity as
10:54well.
10:55>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you raised a good
10:56point, right? Like both of them are
10:57business owners, but for me, now we're
11:00just making assumptions here, right? But
11:01I can totally see how uh you know, for
11:04her
11:05>> uh you know, if it makes sense to divest
11:07it's is it's it's you know, quite I I
11:11would say it's uh a lot easier, right?
11:13As compared to the decision that women
11:15has to make,
11:16>> right, being second gen, right? So, in
11:18the article, you also state that AI
11:20cannot uncover and I really like this,
11:22right? AI cannot uncover what is
11:25unspoken,
11:26>> unknown or not yet understood,
11:29>> right? So could you provide an example
11:31of how a human advisor might listen to
11:33the silence in a way that a language
11:36model cannot.
11:38>> Okay. Many of times it's not what is
11:40said but how is actually being said.
11:42Okay. So uh Isaac you are actually in a
11:44serious relationship.
11:45>> If your girlfriend says I'm okay.
11:48>> So how do you pick it up?
11:49>> She's totally fine.
11:50>> She's totally fine. Oh, you're going to
11:52be in trouble if she says I'm okay and
11:55she looks like that. You know, your
11:57senses has to be alert.
11:58>> All right. So, um uh conversation is is
12:02to have a deeper conversation is
12:04sometimes a a case of laboring. So, as a
12:07human advisers, we want to ask
12:08thoughtful questions. But at the same
12:10time, when we ask thoughtful questions,
12:12we are also on the lookout, you know, on
12:14the pauses on the body behavior or uh
12:19body body language. And we want to um
12:22you know really sometimes give space you
12:25know for the um client to express uh
12:28what they said and then we ask probing
12:30questions to find out more. Sometimes
12:32it's as simple as tell me more you know
12:36um why is that? So, so it's it's
12:38questions like this and then um at
12:40Provident when we uh do discovery
12:43conversation with couples, we want to
12:45give equal space for the both party to
12:49have their say and we want to hear from
12:52them the perspective. Sometimes it's an
12:54opportunity for the couples to listen
12:56into one another because you know um if
12:59the relationship has been you know they
13:02are too set into a relationship uh
13:05especially between the couple sometimes
13:07we just write off what the other person
13:09said because we think that we know what
13:10the other person said but sometimes it's
13:13is it's not true. All right. So by
13:15actually asking thoughtful uh nudging
13:19questions um we do encounter where the
13:23the couples could be surprised by the
13:26response uh that they are actually
13:28hearing uh the first time from each
13:29other.
13:31>> Yeah. So that is something that AI
13:33cannot. AI could actually un analyze the
13:36language but AI may not be able to uh
13:40navigate the family dynamic dynamics and
13:42the family conflicts
13:44>> and emotional conversations.
13:46>> Right. Right. At least at this point,
13:48right? Of course uh AI may do so in the
13:50future, but I think you bring up a
13:52really good point. Right. In in my
13:54discovery sessions with uh my clients,
13:57>> uh you know, if we just look at the
13:59transcript, right? So now we using note
14:02takers recordings uh you know and and
14:04when we just look at the transcript
14:06>> you it's like oh you know it's just like
14:08everything looks fine but actually you
14:10know sometimes that
14:12>> slight glare that slight stare
14:15>> that slight pause and all these nuances
14:17really influence uh and of course beyond
14:20just noticing it right a human adviser
14:23uh who is skilled is able to kind of uh
14:27not just not only just identify but also
14:29probe a bit more in a
14:31>> of course in a way that you know is very
14:35uh very carefully right you don't want
14:36to offend
14:37>> uh them or make any um definitive
14:40assumptions right yeah I think rais
14:43>> so so in the um what is actually
14:45expressed by women is that he he he
14:47treasures stability and uh milling says
14:51that she treasures uh security so we
14:54also want to know what this are we want
14:56to probe further you know the stability
14:58means that you uh uh you are financially
15:01free uh that's a stability means that
15:03you don't want to be uh you know in the
15:05long term be dependent on the other
15:07party. So we want to find out more
15:09because uh you know it is actually
15:12approaching every case with a very clean
15:16or very clear um uh perspective you know
15:20wanting to know what is actually unique
15:22about this individual that makes the
15:24financial plan different.
15:27Hi listeners, thank you for your ongoing
15:29support. Some longtime listeners might
15:31know that the inspiration behind this
15:33entire podcast was our CEO Chris's Money
15:36Wisdom book. [music] We're proud to
15:38announce that we have launched our
15:39second edition of the book titled Money
15:41Wisdom Part Two, More Simple Truths for
15:44Financial Wellness. If you're interested
15:46in getting your very own copy, [music]
15:48please check out the link in the show
15:50notes for more information. Thank you,
15:52and let's get back to the episode.
15:57I also want to go back uh to you know
16:00divestment right of of his business
16:02right so um and maybe we can just expand
16:05a little more I know we touched on it
16:07earlier right um so but when do you
16:08argue that a logical recommendation to
16:11divest might fail to respect the
16:13emotional complexity of the second
16:16generation owner right so I think we
16:18touched on that earlier right maybe we
16:20can go a bit deeper and of course how
16:22will we do it instead Okay. Um the
16:26family uh when it actually comes to
16:28family businesses, it is actually a very
16:30different kind of assets as compared to
16:32personal assets. So when it actually
16:34comes to diver divestment, it actually
16:36comes with a lot of complexity because
16:38there's actually emotional attachment to
16:40this particular assets. And of course,
16:42you know, if the first generation is
16:44actually around, then there's actually
16:45accountability as well to the first
16:47generation. Uh because you know, for
16:49first generation, what they want is to
16:51actually grow and uh keep the business
16:53going. But when actually comes to gen
16:54second generation is actually expanding
16:56on the business. So waying being
16:58involved in the business he she he would
17:00and he's actually putting uh more
17:02resources in the business he actually
17:03sees is able to sees the long-term
17:05future about the business. But uh for me
17:08being a spouse she may not be able to
17:11see. So when actually comes to
17:12divestment it is very very complicated.
17:15So at Provident what we do is that in
17:17our discovery conversation we actually
17:20starts by understanding uh what is what
17:24uh what is a good life for the client.
17:27Okay. So this is where it actually
17:29provides the um the the conversation
17:33actually comes in um what they and this
17:36age their uh future to be uh how they
17:39want their wealth to work out for them
17:41and what do they want to do for the
17:43family. uh what are the people that's
17:44actually important to them and what is
17:47uh life meaning and purpose to them. So
17:49by actually going into the conversation
17:52and by actually asking thoughtful
17:54questions and by uh capturing what was
17:57said we are able to then uh find a
18:00meaning or put a meaning to all these
18:02numbers you know otherwise these numbers
18:04are just extract extract targets. So at
18:07Provident um it is only after we gather
18:11all this information then this is where
18:13the numbers make sense and uh at
18:16Provident what we do is that we actually
18:17runs a scenario analysis and this a
18:21scenario analysis will then be able to
18:23provide options. So sometimes is is it
18:26may not be actually divesting the
18:28business. Sometimes by actually knowing
18:30what is the client's uh cash positions,
18:32what is the uh client's uh uh cash flow
18:36like we may be able to suggest that
18:38maybe it it is not a case of divestment.
18:41It is a case of making sure that uh the
18:44money is actually put in the right
18:46portfolio that is actually in line with
18:48their willingness and ability to take
18:49risk and thereafter growing uh the
18:52portfolio in a uh return that is
18:55actually sensible for them and that
18:58could actually still be able to provide
18:59for them uh the money that they need to
19:02meet their serious or their core uh
19:04financial goals. Yeah, adding on to your
19:07point also I feel that um you know
19:09sometimes the most logical answer right
19:12whether it's the investment of their
19:14business uh whether it's uh diversifying
19:17of their their individual stocks
19:19positions um it's you know we we may end
19:22up with a solution or recommendation
19:25eventually to a client that still allows
19:28for a significant overweight
19:30>> to like their family business for
19:32example right so um logically It may not
19:36I mean logically right if we try to look
19:38for like the 10 year series answer uh it
19:41may not be right
19:43>> uh but you know through the deep
19:45conversations that we have um you know
19:47and also considering that it could lead
19:50to family conflict moving forward
19:55>> uh for the family right you may do the
19:56right answer but lead to like
19:58>> uh essentially the wrong answer for your
20:00family
20:01>> right
20:02>> uh then then to us that's not the right
20:04answer. Yeah.
20:05>> Right. So, I think that's also, you
20:07know, adding on to your point, you know,
20:08about how um, you know, sometimes we may
20:11eventually recommend what may not be the
20:13most quote unquote logical or rational,
20:16but something that is in between that's
20:18able to help our clients live a good
20:20life as you mentioned.
20:22>> So, financial planning is not about
20:24numbers. It's actually uh about making
20:26sure that the uh solutions is actually
20:29right for the couple.
20:30>> Yeah, 100%. Right.
20:32>> Okay. So uh I don't know picking up on
20:35your answer um just now right about our
20:37discovery process. I really want to go a
20:39bit deeper right uh especially at
20:41Provident you know with the philosophy
20:43that we always say um that we want to
20:46make life decisions before making
20:48financial decisions.
20:50>> So how does starting a client engagement
20:52uh we have a conversation about meaning
20:55and purpose
20:57>> change the eventual plan. Right. Right.
20:59So why I ask this is because sometimes
21:01people might say that um you know is it
21:03just fluff right you know you're just
21:05going having a deep conversation but in
21:07the end
21:08>> the outcome of the recommendation
21:10is what you would have recommended
21:13anyway right so how can we uh sort of
21:16address this concern that some people
21:18might have
21:19>> um the by actually having uh knowing the
21:23clients on the dipo level we are able to
21:25put a meaning to the numbers right as I
21:28I said before you know financial plan is
21:30actually not looking at what is actually
21:31logical but what is actually meaningful
21:34to them. So it was actually said that um
21:36you know uh there's a phrase that says
21:38that you can have anything you that you
21:41want but you cannot have everything at
21:43the same time. So life is actually about
21:45priorities and then by having a deeper
21:47conversation with our clients we want to
21:49know what actually resonates with them
21:52you know what is really really important
21:54to them. So it is actually finding the
21:56reason behind uh what makes them unique
22:00and thereafter crafting a financial plan
22:03that's able to then support this uh the
22:07the the life that they actually so
22:09looking forward to.
22:10>> Yeah. So um more specifically if let's
22:13say um you know maybe you can site some
22:16examples about how after the discovery
22:18session right. So initially
22:20>> um they send us their financial data.
22:23>> Yeah.
22:23>> Right. uh then perhaps your mind is like
22:26okay you know there's a certain way that
22:28based on just the figures alone this is
22:30how you would plan but after the
22:31discovery session is the the result of
22:35the the eventual recommendation is
22:38completely different from how we would
22:40typically plan for our clients
22:42>> okay example
22:43>> right so uh what is actually atypical is
22:45that uh when a client comes to us they
22:47have they provide for us a list of
22:48financial information and if I don't
22:52have that detailed conversation it it
22:54can be very prescriptive because if the
22:56client says that I want to retire at 65
22:58this is the amount that I have I analyze
23:00the financial position and it says that
23:01yes you can but by having a deeper
23:04conversation want to find out how does
23:06the client envisage uh their retirement
23:08to be to be like you know what do they
23:10enjoy doing and what are the people they
23:12want to spend time with you know what
23:14actually gives them the uh life
23:16satisfaction you know what gives them
23:18purpose and meaning in life and then we
23:20will then challenge them to see okay Why
23:2365 and why not 60?
23:27Right? So by actually having the client
23:31verbalize what is important to them,
23:34what is actually the uh eeky guy uh to
23:37them, we are then able to then reook in
23:40terms of the financial numbers to see
23:42can we give them the life that they so
23:44wanted you know because as a client
23:47sometimes we don't know.
23:48>> Yeah, I completely agree. Every time a
23:50client comes initially they'll just uh
23:52honestly it's always a very arbitrary
23:54number. Why I know is because most of
23:56the time is multiple of five, right? You
23:58want to retire at 55, 60, you know,
24:01[laughter] but it's really important to
24:02really probe a lot deeper.
24:04>> Um um one example I can think of off the
24:08top of my head that is very common is
24:09that um through the conversation we
24:11realize that
24:13>> they really enjoy the work,
24:16>> right? So um you know we can plan in a
24:19way where you know they're probably
24:21going to continue working um uh maybe in
24:24a in a reduced in a reduced role. We can
24:26account for that in the plan.
24:28>> Um but because you know the the work is
24:31something that they're very passionate
24:32>> about doing. Uh we can always integrate
24:36uh in the plan rather than just you know
24:39a hard stop at 55 for example. Another
24:41example is that a client would say that
24:43okay you know based on my lifestyle
24:44spending based on my living expenses uh
24:47uh you know could you what's the
24:49earliest I can retire right so if you
24:51run the numbers the figures will come
24:53out to be like maybe 60
24:55>> right um but to the client they're like
24:58oh you know we can see from their
25:00expression from the conversations that
25:01we have that it's really not something
25:05that I mean they probably can work till
25:07then but they're going to be really
25:09miserable right so that's where we sort
25:11of step in and say that let's discuss
25:12the tradeoff.
25:13>> Yes.
25:13>> But you know maybe it can um you know by
25:16not owning a car you know by right
25:19sizing your house
25:20>> uh you know actually a possibility
25:22there's a possibility of um you know an
25:25even earlier retirement. um you know and
25:27then you see from their facial
25:28expression sometimes they'll be like oh
25:30you know when you when you say this way
25:31they're like oh you can see that
25:33>> oh that's possible right they didn't
25:34really think about uh about that um you
25:37know so it's really about
25:39>> how you know we can use our how we read
25:42their body language at the same time
25:44going through the process of of just
25:46just always back and going back and
25:48forth with the client
25:50>> to to identify what would really really
25:52give them a good life right so I'm just
25:54giving very broad examples but to be
25:56honest
25:56there are many many different aspects of
25:58of of u how it can influence uh the
26:02final recommendation right yeah what
26:04they will do in retirement it turns out
26:06they have to you know uh start funding
26:09for uh further uh causes right to do
26:13what they want to do in retirement so on
26:14and so forth so there's a lot of uh
26:16impact on their eventual financial plan
26:19>> yeah so this uh as a as a human devices
26:22this is actually something that we can
26:23see but what they say or what is
26:26actually not say by the body uh
26:28language. We're able to then probe.
26:31Yeah. And this is actually something
26:32that AI probably is not able to because
26:35AI could actually give them a a standard
26:37pres prescription in terms of okay you
26:40can look at these numbers you cannot
26:41then you should retire later full stop.
26:44>> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely.
26:46>> Yeah. The the thing that I learned is
26:48that,
26:50>> you know, a lot of people, you know,
26:52from my experience when they go into
26:54retirement,
26:55>> the focus is is so much on that
26:58financial number, right?
27:00>> Uh, you know, if I hit this number, I
27:02can retire.
27:02>> Yeah.
27:03>> And then, you know, happy days, right?
27:05Yeah.
27:06>> Uh but the reality is and and and this
27:09is true for a lot of people is that the
27:11the novelty of um uh you know retirement
27:16>> uh uh you know dies off
27:18>> right after uh 6 months or a year right
27:21so it's important that we make sure that
27:24you know to uh to get our clients to not
27:26just focus on the financial numbers
27:29>> right but rather to focus on the life
27:32>> uh moving ahead right so more in the
27:34context of a family conflict, right? Um,
27:38you know, one important thing is that
27:40you know how would the relationship
27:41dynamic look like in retirement for the
27:45couple,
27:46>> right? Uh, so uh funny story is that um
27:49during co right when uh my dad is is uh
27:53spending a lot of time at home,
27:55>> my mom had a glimpse of what his
27:57retirement would look like [laughter]
27:59for her, right? So um similar to you uh
28:04my family is uh I mean uh my dad is a
28:06businessman right
28:08>> um and I think in the office he's used
28:10to being in charge in control
28:12>> so every day maybe he goes to work
28:15>> um uh you know his he's his um always
28:19giving uh instructions right managing
28:22people and then he get it out of their
28:24system he come home he he come back he's
28:26quite chill and then uh you know uh but
28:29during co Right. When he's at home a lot
28:31of times, right, we start to see that
28:33he's always nitpicking on everybody,
28:35right? Then the whole the whole family
28:38is just like, "Dad, what's going on?"
28:40[laughter]
28:40>> Yeah. And my mom is like, "Oh my gosh,
28:42>> she's so stressed out, you know, she
28:44probably scream back into that, I'm not
28:46your employee." [laughter]
28:48>> Yeah. So it's it's also good that we
28:50explore what the the dynamic will look
28:52like you know what what they would do in
28:53retirement with the extra 8 to 10 hours
28:56a day that they would have um and and to
28:59see that you know um at least to at
29:01least start the conversation about how
29:04um they will each
29:06>> uh spend their time and see whether
29:09there is any potential uh conflict even
29:12in retirement. Uh maybe I just segue uh
29:15Christopher has just written a very
29:17article about five years to retirement.
29:19So if you have actually missed uh
29:20reading or if the audience has actually
29:22misreading uh I would encourage you to
29:24read because retirement is about it's
29:26not just about finances as what they
29:28have actually said. It's also about
29:30health. It's also about life.
29:32>> Yeah definitely definitely. So there's
29:34two articles that uh we have to read
29:36right the one that Chris wrote and the
29:38one that you've wrote.
29:39>> So we have come to the end of the
29:40episode. Thank you so much for joining
29:42us today, Eleanor.
29:43>> Yeah, thank you, Isaac. Thanks for
29:45having me.
29:45>> To our viewers and listeners, I hope you
29:47enjoyed our discussion on whether AI can
29:49replace a human adviser when it comes to
29:51navigating a family conflict. Once
29:53again, if you have not read the article,
29:55please check it out through the link in
29:57the description below. If you enjoyed
29:59this episode, please like, subscribe,
30:01and share if you have not done so
30:04already. As always, thank you for
30:06listening, and I'll see you all in the
30:07next episode.
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