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African tradwives are fine, say Gardaí | TLG #82 — Transcript

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0:00Welcome back everybody to another
0:01episode of the long game podcast with
0:03myself Ben Scallan lurking in the
0:05darkness like Gollum and my esteemed
0:08co-host Jason Osborne who is back in
0:11Poland, his new home. How are you,
0:13Jason?
0:14>> Good. Dwelling in the light even
0:16contrast to you. And I will say for
0:19those who celebrate, which should be
0:21everyone but it isn't, a happy feast day
0:23of Our Lady of Knock.
0:26Mayo just can't can't stop winning these
0:29days as they say.
0:31>> Although that one started a couple
0:32hundred years ago.
0:33>> we would have to mention that as the
0:35resident
0:36angel of light.
0:39People
0:40have the screen right now. It looks like
0:42when somebody's conscience is in a
0:43cartoon and you've got the
0:45>> [laughter]
0:45>> the dark evil figure and the light one,
0:48you know, that's you know, man, it's
0:49quite evident who's who. So
0:52With that said, before we kick off with
0:55our topics, I will have to urge people
0:58if you have any questions for us in your
1:00GRIPT subscriber to go to
1:01gript.ie/questions.
1:03The link to that should be on the screen
1:04for those who are viewing. And we will
1:06be answering your questions at the end
1:09of this episode. So make sure to stay
1:11tuned to the end for that. We might have
1:13answered your question potentially.
1:15And also if you have not subscribed to
1:17this channel, then please do so because
1:19we don't ask you to do that enough. So
1:22for this week we're going to be talking
1:23about the very unfortunate tragic crash
1:26that claimed five lives over the weekend
1:29and the implications of that as far as
1:31youth joyriding and delinquency and what
1:35that says about our culture. We're going
1:36to be talking about freedom of
1:38information materials that were released
1:40to me late last week which found that at
1:42least at one point the Guardi were being
1:44advised when speaking to Nigerian
1:47households that they should speak to the
1:50man first because usually the women want
1:54the men to speak for them and that they
1:56should seek the men's permission
1:58essentially before the talking to the
2:00women's and a lot more findings than
2:02that, but some very interesting
2:04intercultural training there. For
2:07starters, do we want to kick off with
2:10the very unfortunate crash given that
2:12that is the most topical and recent of
2:14the stories in the various lives that
2:16were lost in that incident?
2:17>> Yeah, so for people who haven't been
2:20tuned into the news over the past couple
2:22days, a quick recap and this is directly
2:24from the guards and also the you know,
2:26media outlets get uh the sort of
2:29situation releases from the guards when
2:31they happen.
2:32Um so on
2:35the 16th of August, which was a it was
2:37yesterday morning, sorry.
2:39Guardi in Athy were
2:42started investigating a fatal road
2:45traffic collision that occurred on the
2:46M9 northbound
2:49um
2:50in the early hours of that morning. So,
2:52they were alerted to a vehicle traveling
2:54southbound on the northbound
2:56carriageway. So, obviously heading the
2:57wrong way down the down the road. Um
3:01where it a head-on collision occurred
3:04with a car traveling in the correct
3:05direction um on the road. Now, that's
3:08notable because there was a very similar
3:09incident just a couple of weeks ago. Car
3:12traveling the wrong way uh down the
3:14road.
3:15In this latest incident anyway, um the
3:19updated sitch
3:21the most updated situation I understand
3:23is that there were five teenage males in
3:26the car traveling the wrong way down the
3:28road. Um all of them died in the
3:31collision.
3:33Um the say the occupants of the second
3:35vehicle, there were three women and a
3:37male child um and they all remain in
3:40hospital receiving treatment for serious
3:42injuries. So,
3:44three women and a child injured by a car
3:47traveling the wrong way down the road
3:50and all the occupants of that car
3:51traveling the wrong way the road were
3:52killed in the collision, five of them.
3:55So, the Irish Times has interesting
3:56reporting this morning. Their headline,
3:58and again, this is from the Irish Times,
4:00"Five masked teenagers killed in M9
4:03crash or suspected of local crime
4:05spree." So, I'll read a little bit from
4:07this article because as I say, the
4:09situation you people sometimes get
4:11annoyed when you're maybe not as direct
4:14as they'd like you to be in talking
4:15about a situation that is currently
4:17being investigated by the guards. It's
4:19because there's very strict rules around
4:21how you talk about these things and how
4:22you write about these things and report
4:24about them at the time. So, you know,
4:27people obviously have all of their
4:28theories and things and we're getting
4:30into a broader discussion. But for the
4:33moment, um what the Irish Times have up
4:36about the situation is that gardaí are
4:38investigating
4:40um
4:41this the still in investigating the
4:44situation. They initially found four
4:46remains and then the remains of a fifth
4:48were found when the wreckage of the car
4:50was moved. Um and again, these were all
4:52for It says here, this is from the Irish
4:54Times, "The damage to the suspected
4:56stolen BMW that they were traveling in
4:58was so significant that emergency
5:00responders weren't able to access the
5:02remains of the dead for hours." So, I'll
5:05just read a little bit more. "The male
5:06teenagers, some of whom were related to
5:08each other, were wearing balaclavas or
5:09were otherwise masked when they died on
5:11the M9 at about 3:00 a.m. The deceased
5:14were aligned to a large group known to
5:16gardaí around the Carlow Kildare region.
5:19Gardaí have reports of males believed to
5:21be teenagers seen trying to break into
5:23houses and cars parked outside homes in
5:25Athy, County Kildare, the hours before
5:28the fatal crash. Gardaí believe those
5:30males spotted in Athy were the same
5:32group later killed on the motorway." Um
5:35so, just the final bit I'll read because
5:37then we can no need to
5:40check what's being reported anymore. The
5:42Irish Times understands the black BMW
5:44was driven down the M9 in the wrong
5:46direction, speeding into oncoming
5:47traffic in two stints in the early hours
5:50of Sunday. Garda in a patrol car had
5:52earlier requested the vehicle to stop at
5:54about 2:00 a.m. and at 5:00 with the
5:55driver sped off.
5:57Um so we sort of know how the story went
6:01from there. They obviously uh weren't
6:03stopped and they collided with the car.
6:05And as I say, it's understood that that
6:07car um was the other car was on its way
6:10to Dublin Airport. I think they were
6:12heading off on holiday. Some of the
6:13occupants of the car so an absolute
6:16tragedy
6:18for them, obviously a completely
6:19avoidable tragedy because they were
6:21driving down one of the main roads in
6:24the country uh safely on their way to on
6:27their way on their way to the airport um
6:29when
6:30five lads in as the Irish Times reports
6:33uh suspected stolen BMW
6:37crash head crashes headlong into the car
6:40uh and kills all of those occupants.
6:42So
6:44like where where
6:45Do you want Do you want to take it away
6:46from there, Ben? Like it's
6:48uh it's just so like it's all so
6:50tiresome. Everything is.
6:53>> Yeah, uh tiresome and
6:57you know, the thing you're supposed to
6:59say as a Christian and as a decent
7:01person is obviously God bless them, even
7:05the the people who are apparently
7:08in the wrong here, who caused the entire
7:10thing by
7:11acting in a reckless way. And they were
7:14only young fellows, so
7:17God, you know, God rest their souls and
7:19like we all make mistakes and blah blah
7:21blah and you can, you know, you can say
7:22all of that and that's true. Like I am a
7:24Christian. I do believe
7:26everything I just said.
7:29But also
7:31you kind of
7:33have to at a certain point
7:36accept that if you play stupid games,
7:39you win stupid prizes. And the this sort
7:42of outrageous
7:44dangerous carry-on. Like the evidently
7:47when you're driving down the road on the
7:48wrong side of the road,
7:50you don't really care about the safety
7:53of anyone around you. You're you aren't
7:54interested. If it had been the other
7:56situation where they had killed
7:58everybody in the opposite car and and
8:01they themselves had survived,
8:04do you think they would have cared? Do
8:05you think people who drive around in
8:07balaclavas terrorizing people and
8:10blatantly violating every law
8:13are extremely interested and concerned
8:16about the well-being of those around
8:18them? So, you behave like a reckless,
8:22lawless lunatic and unfortunately
8:25sometimes terrible things will happen to
8:27you and you know, I don't want that for
8:30people, you know, that's a terrible way
8:31for a life to end, but it really is
8:36tiresome that so many law-abiding normal
8:40decent people have to live under the
8:43tyranny of hoodlums and
8:46>> Yeah.
8:47>> thugs.
8:49>> Uh you know, I I'm genuinely sick over
8:50it. I mean, there was a statement as
8:52well
8:54the Garda Commissioner Justin Kelly
8:56released a statement after the after the
8:58incident and you know, I think for the
9:00Garda Commissioner to directly and this
9:01came in from the Garda press office to
9:03directly release the statement about an
9:05incident. That doesn't happen all the
9:06time. Like this as we all know
9:08unfortunately crime happening all the
9:09time in Ireland but the Garda
9:11Commissioner doesn't comment on all of
9:12it but he commented on this one
9:14and he said, you know, "My thoughts with
9:16those injured in the morning's collision
9:17on the M9." And he said, I thought it
9:19was very interesting the way he framed
9:20it. He said, "My thoughts are with those
9:22injured in this morning's collision on
9:24the M9. These family members were
9:25traveling innocently when they were
9:27struck by a vehicle being driven the
9:28wrong way down the motorway. This
9:30horrific incident following the recent
9:32collision on the M50 shows how
9:34irresponsible and dangerous driving on
9:36the wrong side of the motorways. That of
9:38course should be self-evident, but what
9:39makes this reckless behavior even more
9:41appalling is that in some cases cases it
9:44is being done for social media likes
9:46regardless of the potentially
9:47devastating impact it might have on
9:49innocent people and themselves.
9:52So, he was very much taking a particular
9:54position on that in the statement. There
9:56is clear it's absolutely clear, and I
9:58think he's right to.
10:00And
10:01there's so there's so much here. What
10:03annoys me more than anything is that you
10:05do have a serious tendency among NGO and
10:09activist types in this country
10:12to advocate for a sort of soft on crime
10:14type of approach or a purely
10:16rehabilitative approach to crime. And
10:18it's like they're like cuz it's you
10:20know, presumably it's mean to be to be
10:22tough with prisoners and things like
10:23that. Um
10:25but all you end up doing then is
10:27enabling
10:29the as you say the people who are essen-
10:31essentially out there
10:33uh willingly engaging in dan- dangerous
10:36criminal activity,
10:38uh terrorizing people who are trying to
10:40live normal lives and do the right
10:42thing.
10:43And like this is just a prime example of
10:46that. It's like
10:48if they're known to according to the
10:50Irish Times reporting known to be
10:51connected to a large group, it's like
10:53why does it get to that stage? Why does
10:54it get to the stage where, you know, and
10:57know all of these people are up to no
10:58good, can be aware that there was stuff
11:00going on. The gardaí can apparently have
11:02encountered uh a sort of stolen vehicle
11:06earlier in the evening as was the case
11:07with the previous uh incident if I
11:10recall correctly. Nevertheless, off they
11:12go down the street, and you know,
11:14this is where you do come back as well
11:15to that uh case that if I remember
11:17correctly again, is currently
11:19continuing. The garda being charged with
11:22sort of dangerous driving in pursuit of
11:24um
11:25some criminals on a previous occasion.
11:28So, it's like everything is stacked in
11:29the wrong direction. And this country
11:31would be much better served and all the
11:33you know, law-abiding decent people in
11:35it by coming down like a bloody hammer
11:37on these fellows. Um and I have some
11:40sympathy
11:42>> Sorry to interrupt, but there's an
11:43interesting statistic here which may
11:45shed light on the situation and the
11:49mistake that we've been making cuz
11:50you're absolutely right that
11:52trying to say
11:55that the statement that we knew these
11:58individuals were dangerous, the gardaí
12:01were already aware of them and yet they
12:03were still running around causing havoc
12:06all over the country is itself the
12:09problem. And in Sweden, lovely liberal
12:12progressive kip that is Sweden,
12:15for years they had this nice huggy and
12:20feely European Scandinavian policy of
12:25giving juvenile offenders very lenient
12:29sentences or no sentences at all and not
12:32treating them like adults because oh,
12:34sure, he's only a young fellow and we
12:35have to give him a second chance and we
12:37don't want to ruin his life by giving
12:38him a criminal conviction so early in
12:41his teens and we all make mistakes and
12:43this sort of very
12:45lax mindset. And the end result of that
12:48just a couple of years ago is that it
12:50turned out that 80%
12:53of individuals arrested in Stockholm
12:57were minors. They were actually
13:01people under the age of 18, many as
13:03young as 14 being apprehended for gun
13:06violence. And essentially what was
13:09happening was criminals, serious adults,
13:12grown-up criminals knew
13:15that
13:16if they were to get arrested for gun
13:18crime or for drug dealing or whatever it
13:20is, that they would get into serious
13:22trouble because they're an adult. But
13:24the kids are going to be given leniency,
13:26they're going to be given a slap on the
13:28wrist. They're going to be given some
13:29stupid youth diversion program where
13:32they go to a football club or something.
13:35And so, they would effectively be using
13:38kids as child soldiers to do their dirty
13:41work. So, in the streets of a Western
13:44European country, you'd have young
13:47fellows shooting it out in the street on
13:50behest at the behest of their criminal
13:52overlords and knowing that nobody
13:55involved is going to get any kind of
13:56serious sentence and throwing their
13:58lives away. And so, now they've had to
14:01reverse that policy and actually start
14:03punishing young people in a serious way
14:06when they do. When you commit an adult
14:08crime, you should get an adult
14:09punishment. That's my view. If you're
14:11old enough to hold a gun and to shoot a
14:13gun or to rob a shop or to behave like
14:17I'll put it this way. If you have not
14:19learned that robbing a shop or robbing a
14:22car or driving down the
14:25the road over the speed limit the wrong
14:27way is bad by the age of 13 or 14,
14:32you should have learned that by then.
14:34Like you there is no rehabilitating this
14:37person.
14:38Uh they need to go to prison and be
14:41uh ostracized from society, from the
14:45rest of us who are actually just trying
14:46to be decent citizens and get along.
14:49>> Or like I've no problem with the idea of
14:51rehabilitation, but it's just like that
14:53unfortunately has come at the cost of
14:55actually, you know, doling out a
14:56punishment, which is the whole point
14:59uh of uh
15:00of the the system traditionally. I mean,
15:03one thing I've just been thinking a lot
15:04about recently is how we moderns have
15:06absolutely no stomach. We have no
15:10We have no As C.S. Lewis described it
15:12better obviously than anyone else, where
15:14he said that our modern project had
15:16created man without chests. And what he
15:18meant by that was
15:20you have like, you know, in traditional
15:21thought you have the head, which is
15:23where all of the thinking and all of the
15:25sort of principles come from, and then
15:27you have the stomach, which is where all
15:29of the virtues that give you um
15:31uh sort of the the courage and the guts
15:33in you to, you know, to embody these
15:36principles and to impose them upon the
15:38world come from. And he said those two
15:40things have been severed from each other
15:41in this day and age um and so men
15:43without sort of chests, where these
15:45things meet, had been created.
15:47And I I do feel like that very much sums
15:49up modern man. It's this idea that
15:52you know, our our leaders and our policy
15:54makers and all these walk around with
15:55these sort of vague notions that it's
15:58un-Christian to, you know,
16:00treat prisoners harshly. It's
16:02un-Christian to do this. And it's like
16:04in being
16:05kind to prisoners, they're incredibly
16:07cruel to everyone else, and they never
16:09think that way. And it's like there is
16:11nothing
16:13in Christian thought that would say that
16:16you can't ensure that people receive
16:19just punishment for the crimes they've
16:21committed. And that's certainly not
16:22dealt out in Ireland these days. I would
16:25say what the Christian temperament or
16:26the the the Christian understands is
16:29that no one is beyond redemption, and
16:31you should pray for the people who even
16:33you you you're least likely to want to
16:35pray for, and you should always offer
16:38them the hand that will you know, might
16:40help them uh onto a better life should
16:42they turn to look for.
16:44But that does not come at the expense of
16:46their punishment, because like that's
16:48just the way the world works.
16:50Um and as I say, these people have vague
16:52notions going around in their heads like
16:53that'd be very un-Christian like, you
16:55know,
16:56have like four-year-long sentences and
16:58things like that. Uh and it's like, no,
17:00it wouldn't. If someone's done something
17:02that requires that, give them that and
17:03longer.
17:05Um
17:06and I think that
17:08like a primary I saw this as well. I saw
17:10this just this morning when I was
17:11reading the news. Around the same time,
17:14if I'm not mixing up my dates and times,
17:16I don't think it was cuz it was reported
17:17on yesterday and they said the early
17:19hours of the morning.
17:21Here's another one. An investigation is
17:23underway after a Garda patrol car was
17:24rammed by a stolen vehicle in the early
17:26hours of this morning in County Dublin.
17:29So, that was the early hours of the same
17:31morning that the crash on the M9
17:33happened. This incident happened when
17:35Guardi on patrol responded to reports of
17:37dangerous driving on the M50 near
17:39Leopardstown at around 2:00 a.m. Guardi
17:42came across the stolen car at Glencairn
17:44Drive and gave out the signal for the
17:46vehicle to stop. The stolen car failed
17:48to failed to stop and rammed the
17:50official Garda patrol vehicle.
17:52That was happening at around the same
17:54time that these lads were driving the
17:56wrong way down the M9 and crashed into
17:59another car and sent all those people to
18:01hospital and got them got themselves all
18:03killed. Happening just a couple weeks
18:05after another car drove the wrong way
18:06down a motorway to calamitous effect.
18:10And it's like, why do you think these
18:11things are happening more often? It
18:13didn't used to be the case that so many
18:14people were driving the wrong way down
18:15motorways or driving dangerously or
18:17driving stolen cars. It's happening
18:19because bad people are being emboldened
18:23by the fact that there are no real
18:25consequences for their actions. And the
18:27only way you get this
18:28>> It really is that simple. And
18:32you know, George Orwell said that some
18:34ideas are so stupid that only an
18:36intellectual could believe them. And
18:39we have these people who are trying to
18:43reinvent the wheel and think outside the
18:45box in interesting ways. And it turns
18:48out they are morons and actually don't
18:51know what they're doing. Like you you
18:52keep getting these sorts of
18:54what if we don't punish criminals and
18:58put them in jail? Maybe crime
19:00>> Maybe we should install astroturf
19:01pitches in deprived areas. That'll stop
19:03crime. It's like, no, you stop crime by
19:05putting the bloody criminals into prison
19:07and making it uncomfortable for them.
19:09>> maybe if if make it easier to get drugs,
19:12people will take drugs less. You know,
19:14maybe let's let's try some
19:15counterintuitive thinking there. And
19:17then you try it in America, and you try
19:19it in Canada, and you try it in all
19:21these different places, and you see the
19:23exact opposite again and again and again
19:25and again.
19:26And
19:27and you know, you look at somewhere like
19:28El Salvador. And I'm not, you know,
19:32I don't I'm not going to um
19:34try and act like El Salvador is a direct
19:36comparison with our situation or that
19:38we're anywhere near as bad as them. But
19:41that actually almost bolsters the
19:42argument because they were far worse
19:44than us. Everybody knows that El
19:46Salvador, as recently as a few years
19:48ago, was the murder capital of the
19:51world. And uh it it was like at least
19:54top three. It was way up there.
19:57Uh MS-13 gang members with face tattoos.
20:01And then the government opened a massive
20:04super prison with a capacity for tens of
20:07thousands of people. And they just
20:09waited around, and every criminal with
20:13face tattoos who was extorting people
20:15and robbing people and shooting people,
20:19they took them,
20:21and they put them in a cage,
20:23and the problem the the the problem
20:25solved itself. The crime rate plummeted.
20:28The murder rate plummeted. And now it is
20:30the safest country in the Western
20:32Hemisphere. El You would be safer now
20:35walking through El Salvador than you
20:37would be in most American cities.
20:39>> So, are you saying
20:40>> No, not at all. Your point is well made.
20:42I think what's absolutely incredible
20:44though is the way it's covered again in
20:46the media and by the academics in the
20:47Western world who look at this, and
20:50they're like, "Oh my gosh, but like look
20:51at the human rights of the prisoners."
20:53And it's like
20:55like do you guys not care at all about
20:57the fact that the standard of living has
20:58been raised for your average person
21:00living there immeasurably? Like do you
21:02not care about the fact that the guy
21:03who's done this his popularity soared
21:06because of his approa- his his pursuit
21:09of this policy. It's like they their
21:12moral compass is inverted.
21:15They have been possessed by
21:17anti-human ideas. I would put it that I
21:20would put it that way. Um that that they
21:22convey under the guise of compassion for
21:25the like and this is where it is
21:26anti-Christian because it's the guise of
21:29compassion for the marginalized. So in
21:31this instance, the marginalized is the
21:33prisoner and they're like, "Okay, well
21:34the prisoner's
21:35dignity is being deprived here by these
21:37circumstances."
21:39And it's like, "Well, first of all, no,
21:40it's not because detention itself is
21:43actually a pretty humane uh obviously
21:44there's ways to do inhumane detention,
21:47but detention itself there's nothing
21:49inherently undignified about that." But
21:52it's also the case that
21:55there's no reason why someone put into
21:58that circumstance can't
22:00turn their life around. There's no
22:01reason why someone put into those
22:03circumstances
22:05is deprived of the opportunity to do
22:07better in future. The only way they won
22:09is if they commit to not doing better in
22:10future. Um and in the meantime everyone
22:14>> And by the way, just to reinforce the
22:17point about how experts generally are
22:19morons, so-called experts who don't know
22:21what they're talking about. Before
22:24Bukele, the El Salvadoran leader, before
22:26he launched his war on crime and decided
22:29to start mass arresting people, his
22:31experts came to him, many of his
22:34economists, and they said, "Listen, Mr.
22:36President, we understand what you're
22:38trying to do. We understand that this is
22:40important, but we have to caution you
22:43that if you do this, the economy will
22:45take a substantial hit because
22:48unfortunately, nobody likes crime,
22:50nobody likes the proceeds of crime, but
22:52it is a fact that much of the money that
22:55is being taken by these gangs through
22:58their illicit activities are ending up
23:00back in the wide economy, and are
23:02actually
23:03uh causing many businesses to stay
23:07afloat that would otherwise go under.
23:09And so, they were estimating that there
23:11would be a significant hit to the
23:14economy, and that the country's GDP
23:16would take a massive nose dive if you
23:18were to clean up the crime problem
23:19overnight.
23:20And he said,
23:22"I don't care because your ability to
23:25live without fear of getting shot in the
23:27face or robbed is way more important
23:30than your GDP. So, I don't care if
23:32there's an economic hit. We can fix the
23:34economy later. We can't fix getting shot
23:36in the head later. So, I'm doing it." He
23:38did it.
23:39And the economy grew by 5% almost
23:43instantly. And the reason is if you are
23:47uh confident as a business owner that
23:49nobody's going to come and extort me,
23:51nobody's going to try and shake me down,
23:53I'm not going to get mugged on my way
23:55home, then people start to have more of
23:57an economic libido. They start making
23:59more. They start wanting to earn more
24:01cuz they know they can keep it at the
24:03end. And so, the economy booms as a
24:06result. So, they were wrong, just like
24:09they're always wrong. Anybody who comes
24:12to you and tells you, "Oh, no, the the
24:14solution to crime isn't to take bad
24:17people and put them in jail." is an
24:19idiot, and they don't know what they're
24:20talking about. And they're coming up
24:22with these insane half-baked Like, the
24:24what's what's amazing to me about that
24:26country as a case study
24:29is how simple it is. You know, you we
24:31think like, "Oh, these People will tell
24:33you, 'Oh, these are very complex issues,
24:35and you know, we we need to have like a
24:37really serious discussion about what do
24:39we do, and let's get in our expert
24:41panels and committees, and we'll talk
24:43about you know, talk to psychologists,
24:46and maybe you take the bad guys, and you
24:49incarcerate them.
24:51Problem solved. That's literally all it
24:53takes. And we used to understand this.
24:57We forgot this a couple of years ago.
24:59The country's gone to hell in a
25:00handbasket. And if you suggest, "Why
25:03don't we go back to the thing that
25:04worked, that we always used to do?"
25:06You're People are like, "That's crazy."
25:08And oh, you're you're being overly
25:10simplistic. It really isn't. That really
25:12is the solution. It's that easy.
25:14>> Liberal charity is an absolutely
25:17terrible thing,
25:19uh,
25:19in the sense that
25:22who it ought to be directed towards is
25:24generally
25:26faulty. What it ought to be aiming at is
25:28generally faulty. Everything about it is
25:30faulty. And so, generally, you end up
25:32with victims rather than anyone who's
25:34actually benefited by it. In this
25:36instance, obviously going to be the case
25:37that it's always the prisoner side,
25:39never the people who are the victims of
25:40the crime side. And you do have that
25:42this narrative thing that
25:43>> I don't care if rapists and murderers
25:46and thieves are having an uncomfortable
25:48time in prison. It reminds me of
25:50uh, you know that psychopath Anders
25:52Breivik in Norway? And how a couple of
25:55years back, he was
25:57threatening to go on a hunger strike
26:00because he said that the video games he
26:03had in prison were too juvenile for his
26:05liking. And he wanted He only had a
26:07PlayStation 1. And he wanted uh,
26:10PlayStation 2. Uh, and and more more
26:14up-to-date games because other prisoners
26:16had it and this kind of thing. And first
26:18of all, there's something comical about
26:20being one of the most hated men in the
26:22world and threatening to go on a hunger
26:23strike. That's kind of funny. And also,
26:27this guy killed about 80 people, close
26:30to 80 people. And most of them were
26:31kids.
26:32I don't care if you rot in a dungeon
26:35forever. Like, what are you talking
26:37about making demands? Like, I care about
26:40your place. And that's the way I feel
26:41about all of these people. Like, he's
26:43obviously an extreme example, but
26:46you rob pensioners, you punch
26:49uh, you you
26:50kids in the face who are just coming
26:52home from work and bully people. You You
26:55rob shops. You prey on the vulnerable.
26:58You're scum. Like you deserve to go to
27:00jail and I don't I'm not giving you Sky
27:02Sports in your cell. Like you can go to
27:04hell. Sorry. I I don't mean to
27:06>> No, not not really. The one
27:09>> That was too harsh. Don't go to hell. Go
27:11to heaven ideally if you can, but you
27:13know, I'm I'm being exuberant cuz this
27:15>> I know I know what you mean because I
27:17but it like it's it is a sort of issue
27:19that gets your blood pressure up because
27:20it's so egregious and like
27:23Uh I want to come back to your economy
27:24point about why these experts like these
27:26experts put the economy above all else
27:29and it's like by all means, you know,
27:31maintaining the economy is important,
27:32but it's not the most important thing
27:34and sometimes good things you have to do
27:36especially as leaders if they come in
27:38into conflict with what's good for the
27:40economy according to the experts, well,
27:41so be it would be my take on it and I
27:43know that I'll have all the centrist
27:45dads coming at me like Oh, you don't
27:48know how terrible poverty is and you
27:50know, uh
27:51anyone who says that sort of thing is a
27:53fanatic and it's like
27:56No, that's really not how it is at all.
27:58It's just blind devotion to the economy.
28:01It's yeah, again something I've been
28:03thinking a lot about recently and
28:04um I think we'll probably get into it
28:06again a little bit later on in this
28:07episode, but um yeah, just to your point
28:09I just want to close off this topic by
28:11saying like
28:12this is why in
28:14recent memory the idea that you can just
28:16do things has become so popular because
28:19El Salvador is an example.
28:21But you know, in Ireland it's some
28:24serious political alternative came along
28:26and genuinely it seemed as though they
28:29might be able to build like
28:32a bunch of new prisons and I know, you
28:34know, you've got the
28:36um
28:38labor supply issues around big
28:41infrastructure. I would say there's more
28:43pressing than MetroLink. I'll put it
28:44that way. And the MetroLink is an
28:46absolute like I would I think Dublin
28:47should have a metro. I think it's
28:48ridiculous that they've been talking
28:50about it for so long. But you know, in a
28:52country with supply shortages and
28:53shortages of different things
28:56that contribute to taking ages to
28:59actually get anything built. Rather than
29:02MetroLink, I would be
29:05I would say more than that, but I'd be
29:06like, "Okay, let's maybe set out a plan
29:09for building a bunch of new prisons.
29:11Let's really look at which aspects of
29:14our legis-
29:16legislation
29:18hold back on harder tougher sentencing
29:22for criminals of the most severe kind.
29:25And I think it would be actually to
29:27pursue those goals because I think it's
29:29heading in the direction that this is
29:30becoming a a noticeable thing for
29:32people. And I know the guard has come
29:34out and say, "Well, look at all these
29:35different kinds of crime falling like
29:38theft or whatever this or that whatever
29:40may be." But the nature of crime is
29:42changing in Ireland. One of the things
29:43that one of the aspects of it is
29:45certainly
29:47complete lack of respect for authority.
29:49Like assaults on guard are rising.
29:52Incidents of ramming guard cars is ri-
29:55are rising. And it's like that sort of
29:57thing
29:58is very dangerous. Like once you start
30:01heading in that direction,
30:03you're really heading down a bad path.
30:05Well, especially as you know,
30:07I know they're doubling down on guard
30:09recruitment and everything right now.
30:11But it's like the general trend is the
30:12one of guard demoralization and them
30:15struggling to maintain their workforce.
30:17And it's like
30:18you've got to nip all of these things in
30:20the bud right now. And I do understand
30:22why guards would be demoralized because
30:24they do, you know, in many instances
30:26they do great work. And they catch
30:28people and then, I don't know, you got
30:30people going into the courts with
30:31hundreds of previous convictions
30:34and then, you know, they might get a
30:35suspended sentence still or they might
30:37get some laughable prison sentence and
30:40then back out they go. And it's like the
30:42whole system needs to be rejigged, and I
30:44genuinely think some party that made a
30:46decent, serious effort of just doing
30:48something, you know,
30:50well, I'd vote for them, anyway.
30:52Well, speaking of Garda, I suppose we
30:55should pivot to our next topic, which is
30:57that the
30:59Garda, at least at one point, were
31:02advised to speak to the Nigerian
31:06male head of the household when
31:09interacting with the Nigerian community,
31:11and this is from FOI documents that I
31:15received from the Garda's official
31:19intercultural
31:21communication and understanding
31:24document.
31:26Now,
31:27I will
31:29add a caution here, or
31:31caveat, that I have not yet been able to
31:34ascertain if this document is still in
31:36use. Is this a document that the Garda
31:38are currently using? Or uh it's not
31:41dated, they haven't told me yet. I asked
31:43them do many days ago now, and they said
31:46they're looking into it, but I haven't
31:47heard back since, which, by the way, is
31:50weird, given that it seems like you
31:52should be able to make one phone call
31:53and say, "Are we still using this? Yes
31:55or no?" And I don't know why that takes
31:57days to figure out, but anyway, that's
31:58neither here nor there. The point is,
32:00we don't know, but I don't think it
32:02matters. I think it's kind of immaterial
32:04because
32:05they were using it at one point, at the
32:07very least, if they're not using it now.
32:09So, this is official Garda advice that
32:12they considered to be legitimate at some
32:14stage, if not currently. And so,
32:18it's entitled a short guide to cultural
32:20and diversity awareness. And what I find
32:23amazing about this, we'll get into some
32:24more of the content, there's some
32:25amazing stuff here,
32:27but just that one alone, about Nigerian
32:32the Nigerian community, it says here
32:34that um
32:35do do do, I'll pull up the exact quote.
32:38Oh, yeah. It is not uncommon in Nigerian
32:40society for men to have more than one
32:42wife. Nigerian women often prefer their
32:46husbands to speak as the head of the
32:48household. Guardi making inquiries
32:50should, if possible, address the male
32:53head of the household before attempting
32:55to interview a female member of the
32:57family.
32:58And this from the same state that has
33:01been lecturing us about the patriarchy
33:04and about
33:05>> Yeah.
33:05>> tradwives. Apparently, Nigerian
33:08tradwives are fine. If you want to be a
33:11polygamist patriarch who
33:14uh insists upon being spoken to before
33:18the police try to address your wives,
33:21uh then that's perfectly legitimate.
33:23But, if you're an Irish guy who thinks
33:26it's better if your woman is stays home
33:28maybe and minds the kids while you work,
33:30you're an outrageous scumbag. Not when
33:33other communities do it, though. So,
33:35we'll we'll lead with that. There's more
33:36to it than that, but what do you think
33:38of that, Jason, for starters? As a as an
33:39appetizer.
33:41>> Given that we're taking shots at kind of
33:44lib- liberal tendencies today, I do
33:46think it's always really funny. Things
33:47like this are always really funny.
33:50Liberalism is really funny with how it
33:51emboldens
33:53the worst excesses of the things that it
33:55typically condemns. So, it's like
33:58in our yeah, the Irish example it's it's
34:00a good example of that. That, you know,
34:02we heard last week or 2 weeks ago now
34:04about the uh public awareness tradwife
34:07campaign that the government is
34:08embarking on.
34:09Um and also it's sort of campaign
34:12against the manosphere and things like
34:13that. And I'd say
34:16people who have been
34:18harmfully impacted, like genuinely
34:21harmed to the point that like they do
34:23think that women are lesser than men and
34:24things like that. If there's anyone like
34:26that in Ireland, I'd say you're looking
34:28at maybe
34:290.2% of the population at the most, 0.1%
34:33of the population. Like they certainly
34:34have no popular foothold.
34:36Um but nevertheless, this is a huge
34:38thing that Irish society has to stand
34:40about. Then in the meantime, the
34:43population soars by tens of thousands
34:45and in recent years by hundreds of
34:47thousands of people into the country
34:49from
34:50countries that do not share Ireland's
34:52cultural moorings in the slightest. And
34:56the Guard are being advised to deal very
34:58sensitively with that. And I did this
35:00behavior if you want to put it that way.
35:02It enables polygamy. It enables um
35:06these things that,
35:08you know, I would say it's perfectly
35:09valid to say are inferior to monogamy.
35:12Um things that are inferior
35:14>> Well, well, uh well, I'll I'll interrupt
35:17you to read out a little bit more of the
35:19document because earlier on, it talks
35:22about how there's no way to say that
35:25your system is superior culturally to
35:28another person's system. It says,
35:30"Generally, when we try to understand
35:32the cultural context of behavior that
35:34appears weird or wrong to us, then the
35:37behavior will begin to make sense. Even
35:39behavior that may appear wrong to us may
35:42be right in the context of the cultural
35:44values which influence it.
35:47Um blah blah blah.
35:48It says that
35:51um
35:52da da da It does say that sometimes, I
35:55will say to add some nuance, it does say
35:57that sometimes people try to use their
35:59culture to justify things which aren't
36:01justifiable. But it goes on to say that
36:03in addition, um
36:06Oh yeah, it says that uh many Irish
36:08people's
36:10historical kind of view of African
36:13countries is unfair and prejudiced that
36:15it says um
36:16the lack of positive images of Africa in
36:19the media, the black baby syndrome, and
36:22the power imbalance in the world
36:24political and trade structures have
36:26contributed to a view held by many Irish
36:28people which is westerners and the
36:30western way of doing things as being
36:32superior to Africans and the African way
36:35of doing things. Obviously, when
36:36Africans come to live in Ireland, they
36:38experience the consequences of this
36:40worldview in a variety of negative
36:42responses from Irish people ranging from
36:44simple ignorance of the true situation
36:47in their countries to a form of
36:49paternalism to prejudice and racism,
36:51blah blah blah. Obviously, racism
36:54Sorry, go ahead.
36:55>> If it was that inferior, they wouldn't
36:57be going to Ireland.
36:59Like
37:00that's the beginning and end of the
37:02whole thing. It's like if if Ireland was
37:04a racist hellhole, you wouldn't get
37:06people going there, but it's not.
37:08And
37:09>> And if the Irish way of doing things
37:11wasn't superior to the way of doing
37:13things in various parts of the world,
37:15then people would not come here. Like
37:17I'm not desperate to move to Papua New
37:19Guinea cuz in Papua New Guinea, they eat
37:22people and I don't really like that. So
37:25and
37:26>> That's because you haven't absolutely
37:27been because you haven't tried to
37:29inhabit that worldview yet.
37:31>> Yeah, exactly. I'm here saying
37:33cannibalism is bad. Have I even tried
37:35it? You see, I'm speaking from a
37:36position of ignorance here and that just
37:38shows what kind of person I am.
37:40>> That is you're going to have guard in
37:412060 like knowing on people in an effort
37:44to like, you know, come to understand
37:46some of the culture some some new
37:48cultures.
37:49>> That's part of the induction training is
37:51you have to eat a human calf muscle or
37:53something, but
37:55>> I I will I will say like and this
37:57shouldn't even need to be said, but just
37:59like
38:01a no group of people is superior to any
38:04other group of people. Every person is
38:06made equally valuable and precious in
38:09the eyes of God. We're all children of
38:11God. Every race, every nationality,
38:13every group in the world. That's fine.
38:15We all agree with that. We're
38:16Christians. That's fine.
38:18>> Unfortunately, we don't all agree with
38:20that, but it doesn't stop it being true.
38:23Sure.
38:25We A culture is a set of ideas and
38:28practices
38:29and it would be insane
38:33and idiotic in the
38:36to the maximum degree to say that
38:39certain ideas and practices are no
38:41better or worse than other ones. Of
38:43course, you can have superior ideas and
38:46practices to other cultures and to
38:49indicate otherwise would be laughable.
38:51So, yes, there are cultures that are
38:53superior. I would consider Irish culture
38:55to be vastly superior to the cultures of
38:59many
39:00groups around the world, which is why
39:01they want to come here and we don't want
39:03to go there and it's very simple.
39:05Um another example of such a practice is
39:09that the booklet's talking about the
39:10Pakistani community in Ireland and it
39:13says uh family ties are very important
39:15to the community and families tend to be
39:17extended with the male considered to be
39:20the head of it, so there's more of that
39:22patriarchal uh values. The majority of
39:25Pakistani Muslims in the country who are
39:27married will have had their marriages
39:29arranged in the traditional manner.
39:32Marriage to cousins is very common.
39:35Uh I know this I think most people know
39:38this. This is pretty common knowledge,
39:39but it's kind of remarkable to hear the
39:42Guardi acknowledging it. Uh I don't
39:44think marrying your cousin is
39:47an equally good way of doing things. I
39:50think that's a worse way of doing things
39:52that is
39:53pretty gross and weird, uh you know, so
39:58the fact that this is just an
40:00alternative
40:02It's It's The fact that I I just think
40:04there's something grotesque about the
40:06fact that
40:07we're being presented with these
40:09practices which are obviously worse and
40:12instead of asking people to
40:15leave that stuff at the door and try to
40:17make some effort to assimilate into our
40:20obviously better way of doing things.
40:22And by the way, it wouldn't matter if
40:24our way of doing things was better or
40:25worse, cuz you're in our country. So,
40:27you should have to do our things
40:28regardless. Like, you're beggars can't
40:30be choosers. Like, if you want to come
40:32and be part of the fabric of our
40:33society, you do things the way we do
40:35things. And that should be neither here
40:36nor there. But, it also just so happens
40:39that the way we do things is better than
40:41the way you do things. It would actually
40:42be better for you.
40:43>> It's just
40:44>> So, the fact that we're not expecting
40:45that of people, and the police are meant
40:47to walk on eggshells to accommodate them
40:50and their weird behaviors, I think is a
40:52problem.
40:53>> Like, I really want to get into the head
40:55of the people who are designing these
40:57things and think, "Okay, well,
40:58the Irish government and the Guardi have
41:00been huge in recent years on domestic
41:03and gender-based violence, and huge on
41:08female empowerment and all that, you
41:10know, with all that entails in the
41:12modern age. But, anyway, these have been
41:13the big talking points in recent years.
41:15And it's like, what happens in the
41:17thought process when you're pushing all
41:20of this all the time,
41:22and then,
41:23I don't know, for whatever reason,
41:25you're calling in say a Nigerian or a
41:26Pakistani household, where you
41:28understand that in their culture, um
41:32men are traditionally the head of the
41:34household, and sort of
41:36often very authoritatively so.
41:38Um what goes on in the sort of
41:42modern bureaucrat's head when they
41:45encounter that situation? It's like,
41:46"Okay,
41:48you know, I really don't like this, but
41:50you know, it's their right to sort of
41:52live this way." Or, do they sort of
41:55think that
41:56like, this is nearly a culture over
41:58which they have no jurisdiction, despite
42:00the fact that they're in Ireland? Or, I
42:02would love to know what exactly the
42:04thought process is, because generally,
42:05you know, when I talk to people I
42:06disagree with anyway, and you know, I'll
42:08be having conversations about
42:10these different things, I just find that
42:12um
42:14these are just pure inconsistencies.
42:16Like the people don't think these things
42:19think these things through.
42:21Um I I referenced them I think I
42:23referenced them earlier. I might have
42:24been when we were chatting this morning.
42:26I can't remember.
42:27I was talking about C.S. Lewis and how
42:29Yeah, no, it was on the podcast. C.S.
42:31Lewis and the abolition of man. Um and
42:33as I say I cuz I read it a couple of
42:34weeks ago
42:35and it's just so prophetic. And the
42:38whole central thrust of that book,
42:40you'll be it'll be clear how it relates
42:42to this now in a second, is that if you
42:44were not governed to buy what you
42:46understand to be universal objective
42:48values, you will ultimately come to be
42:51governed by nothing more than the
42:52impulses of the people in charge. And
42:54that that ultimately is a lot more
42:56tyrannical than anything that would seek
42:58to
43:00uh live according to their universal
43:02principles. So, how that applies to this
43:03situation is
43:06we live in a society where
43:09we no longer sort of believe in God for
43:11the most, but most people don't believe
43:12in God anymore. They'll say they do, but
43:14they don't. They they don't live their
43:16lives in any sort of way that would
43:17indicate they give any sort of credence
43:19to an eternal ordering of things.
43:21Um
43:23what came what is coming in into the
43:26heads of most of the people in gover-
43:29in government, in academia, in the media
43:33is a way of thinking that is very much
43:34informed by a school of thought that I
43:36mentioned on previous podcasts or that
43:38in previous live streams, critical
43:40theory. The whole point of critical
43:42theory is that it's critical. It's
43:44subversive. It It sort of approaches
43:48uh traditionally Western ways of
43:50thinking and looks for what's oppressive
43:53in them, what is uh patriarchal in them.
43:58All All of the things we're used to
43:59hearing about and it essentially tries
44:01to take a hammer to those things uh to
44:03be replaced with, well,
44:07diversity, equity, and inclusion is
44:09largely what they're
44:10replaced with in the West these days.
44:12But, um
44:13ultimately, when it comes to situations
44:15like this, it's like it's the impulse of
44:17the people doing the project, the guys
44:20these things. Like, the Guardi are not
44:23being guided here by,
44:25you know, concern for the most
44:27vulnerable. They clearly have,
44:29you know, something deeper going on
44:32there that when they approach a Nigerian
44:35polygamous family or whatever it might
44:37be, or a Pakistani family, they're
44:39willing to put them in the backseat
44:40because
44:42in that interaction, it's sort of
44:45another tenant of the modern worldview,
44:47which is that, well, diversity is very
44:48important. And these are diverse members
44:51of the modern Irish community, they
44:52would say. And so, we have to sort of,
44:55you know, meet them on very uncritical
44:56terms, despite the fact that other Irish
44:58people living that way will have public
45:00awareness campaigns and all sorts of
45:03social harassment essentially doled out
45:05of them these days. So, it's uh it's
45:08just all so modeled, and it's also it is
45:11two-tier, which is why that that label
45:13comes from there. But, you have to be
45:15able to trace it back to the erosion of
45:18objective values to which we're all
45:20beholden, that we're all we all live
45:23under that umbrella, and the sort of
45:27subversive ideas that have essentially
45:29taken root instead of the heart of it,
45:30that a lot of the people who adhere to
45:31these things don't even know they adhere
45:33to. Um but, there's there's a lot
45:35there's a lot to it.
45:37>> Yeah, last last one I wanted to touch
45:39on, which I thought was noteworthy. And
45:41again, because this document is not
45:43dated, I don't know what time period
45:46this is referring to. So, I that's not
45:48been made clear, but the fact that this
45:50was ever true, I think is significant.
45:53Uh it says that some Chinese people,
45:56particularly older people who came to
45:58this country, were illiterate in their
46:00own language. They found English
46:02difficult to learn and have little or no
46:04English at all. This is also not unusual
46:07for individuals who have moved here in
46:09more recent years, particularly those
46:11who are employed in the catering
46:13business. They have had little
46:14opportunity or incentive to learn
46:17English.
46:19Uh and it says that many young children
46:23uh who go to school
46:26did not They They could They They go to
46:28school effectively having been raised in
46:30Ireland for the first several years of
46:31their life and they can't speak a word
46:32of English and they have to learn from
46:34ground zero because all that's spoken in
46:36their household is Chinese.
46:39The Why is the Why is this okay? Like,
46:42why are we accepting this? What do you
46:44mean you have no incentive to learn
46:46English? Surely the incentive is that
46:48you live in a country where English is
46:50the most commonly spoken language. I
46:51would I you want to communicate with the
46:53people around you in the country that
46:55you now call home. Is that not an
46:56incentive?
46:58Apparently, you just don't care. Like,
46:59what what are we doing here? Why are we
47:01letting people in? You see, the argument
47:04they always make for immigration
47:07every single time we try to talk about
47:09this is
47:10sure the health service would fall over
47:12without immigration and we need them for
47:14this industry and we need them for that
47:16industry and we have to do that.
47:18And of course, as we've conceded many
47:21times over and been happy to concede,
47:23there is an element of truth to that.
47:25We're all more than happy. Nobody is
47:27seething with rage when they see a
47:29Filipino nurse who's helping with
47:31whatever. Like, that's not the issue.
47:34The issue is people who, as this
47:36document states, are coming to our
47:39country who are illiterate in their own
47:42language, let alone in our language or
47:45any language that will allow them to
47:47speak to the people around them. Tell
47:48me, what contribution is that guy making
47:51to the Irish economy? What contribution
47:54is that guy making to
47:56make
47:58producing a better more cohesive
48:00country. Can you explain that to me? I
48:02don't think anybody can.
48:04Cuz the answer is there is no
48:05contribution being made there.
48:07There's no quality control. There's no
48:10willingness to point out
48:13that these things are unacceptable.
48:15You're just supposed to accept this and
48:17I don't.
48:18>> Most of they don't None of these people
48:19ask any bloody deep questions. It's
48:21like, you know, GDP is a very funny
48:23metric. It's like, okay, well, if such
48:25people were to work in like, yeah, some
48:26sort of catering industry or something
48:28like that, it probably does
48:29bump the GDP up,
48:32you know, in its own little way very
48:34slightly. But it's like, okay, how what
48:35calls three doing that?
48:37I was like, well,
48:39it's at the cost of essentially
48:40developing parallel societies within
48:43society. This is a problem that England
48:45is obviously far ahead of us in terms of
48:47having to grapple with, but it doesn't
48:48look at it doesn't look any better
48:50there. If anything, it looks a lot worse
48:51over there, despite the extensive
48:54efforts
48:55>> of the British state.
48:56Um and I think that No, I was talking
49:00talking about this with friends on a
49:01recent trip out and this was really
49:02interesting to me. I was talking to some
49:04friends who
49:05I would say probably are very much not
49:07inclined to agree with me in terms of
49:10religion, in terms of politics or
49:11anything like this.
49:13I didn't meet a single person who wasn't
49:15willing to admit that they weren't
49:17willing to admit at the very least that
49:19immigration is having an effect on the
49:21shape of society.
49:23And I was able to get out of some as
49:26concessions that
49:28it's not going to be the Ireland you
49:29knew or that you,
49:32you know, very much benefited from
49:34growing up in. It's going to be
49:35something very different because
49:37I just had a whole load of experiences
49:39like I'm walking through a housing
49:40estate near
49:42near where my
49:44parents live.
49:46Very recently built built in the past
49:48couple of years that I would say is 90%
49:51inhabited at this stage by Indian
49:54families
49:55uh
49:55who individually passing by you know
49:57perfectly pleasant people who
50:00you know the state opened it up and they
50:02came here for a better opportunity and
50:04they are benefiting by this economically
50:05and things but you know I don't I have
50:08no problem with the individuals
50:09themselves. What I have a huge issue
50:11with is that
50:13you walk around this estate
50:15and these sorts of estates did not exist
50:17in Ireland
50:1820 years ago. These sorts of estates did
50:21not exist in Ireland up until very very
50:23recently. Now it's not to say that an
50:25ancient society should always be
50:26backwards looking and should always be
50:28like oh things can only be as they have
50:30been and there will never be any
50:31different in the future. But what it is
50:33to say is that some change potentially
50:36comes with fairly catastrophic
50:37consequences and one of those I would
50:39say
50:40is that in sort of observing different
50:43communities there's not very much
50:44overlap or interaction.
50:46And it's like you very much run the risk
50:48of no longer having an integrated
50:50society in the future because like
50:52again walking through the I went for a
50:54walk through this estate yesterday just
50:55before heading off for our flight and
50:57there was some sort of Indian community
50:59day event in there at which there were
51:00no I it was very busy like there were
51:02lots of people there.
51:04Um there were loud speakers or they were
51:06playing games and music and things like
51:08that and
51:10uh it was all very good. The only Irish
51:12people I saw the only Irish people there
51:13were the guards actually who were
51:14attending clearly in some sort of
51:15cultural engagement capacity like it it
51:18was it was
51:20something else but
51:21nevertheless I was like this is a whole
51:23event going on down here which is
51:24obviously entirely Indian themed.
51:27There's no Irish people present other
51:29than the guards who are clearly sort of
51:30sent as envoys of the state. And I was
51:32like what sort of society are you
51:35creating here
51:37with like sort of
51:38parallel communities growing up
51:40alongside each other that that don't
51:41interact. It's like I feel like even if
51:44you are
51:46allergic to right-wing talking points,
51:48or allergic to immigration concern, you
51:51have to acknowledge that that is
51:55very unusual.
51:58And if you're going to be very honest,
52:00probably not a good thing. Because
52:03everyone understands that it's good for
52:04society to be unified. People will
52:06acknowledge it when it comes to sports,
52:07people will acknowledge it when it comes
52:09to responding to natural disasters or
52:11emergencies and things. But for some
52:12reason, they can see these huge sort of
52:16communities growing up apart from each
52:18other with very little to do with each
52:19other and they're like, "Ah, it'll
52:19probably be fine."
52:21And it's like, no, I I would say history
52:23suggests it probably won't be fine,
52:24actually, even if you don't know exactly
52:26how it's going to play out. Um so, it's
52:29yeah.
52:31It's
52:32it's often
52:35>> Well, speaking of history, we might uh
52:38in a slightly rushed way and pivot to
52:42some recent remarks by Taoiseach Martin
52:45about Irish history and his
52:49his
52:50all additional comments, and I'm going
52:52to paraphrase, but you can fill us in on
52:54exactly what was said. He didn't he say
52:56something to be a fact of we need to
52:58stop this very unfortunate trend that
53:02he's observed of people calling each
53:05other names in debates and acting like
53:10their way is the only right way to uh
53:13conduct yourself morally when it comes
53:15to complex social issues and over
53:19simplified it is. Isn't Isn't that
53:21something along the lines of what he
53:22said?
53:23>> 100%. So, now, the one I wanted to talk
53:25about was yeah, Micheál Martin delivered
53:26a speech to open the West Cork History
53:29Festival, which took place as I was
53:31about a week and a half ago now. It was
53:32the week over the weekend, August 7th to
53:349th, and
53:36as I said in the article I wrote about
53:37it, it was a great success by all
53:38accounts, and I think they absolutely
53:40should have
53:41history festivals and
53:43like, wouldn't they? That's a good
53:44thing. But like inviting Micheal Martin,
53:47the Taoiseach, to discuss the proper way
53:50to approach history was a dubious choice
53:53to say the least. So,
53:54um
53:56from the very beginning of the speech
53:57the Taoiseach commended the festival's
53:59commitment to, quote, "broadening
54:01discussions beyond simple narratives."
54:03And I'll quote from some of it here. He
54:05said, "At its best, public engagement
54:07with history can inspire and provide a
54:09foundation for a vibrant democratic
54:11discourse. At its worst, it can be used
54:13to keep alive and expand prejudices and
54:15grievances."
54:17Um which as soon as I read that I was
54:19like, "Oh my word, you bloody you
54:21hypocrite." Um because I had multiple
54:25memories of contributions he's made to
54:27the Dáil where he does those very things
54:29like siding history to antagonize
54:32certain peoples, people of certain
54:35political bends and things like that.
54:36And he's standing up on stage talking
54:38about, "Oh, you know, what a noble
54:39thing, what an inclusive thing history
54:42can be." So, he went on to say that um
54:45"An assault on the right to descend from
54:47a group or regime defined narrative of
54:49history is one of the most consistent
54:51things you find at present." Uh and then
54:54he said that history as an area of free
54:56expression is under more pressure than
54:58at any time in the past 80 years.
55:01And so, who's to blame for that in
55:02Micheal Martin's opinion? It mainly
55:05those committed to, quote, "extreme
55:07ideologies and authoritarianism."
55:10Or
55:11like you There's so much can be said
55:12about all of this, but last I digress.
55:15Um I'll just quote a little bit at
55:17length because people
55:19can all just be a goggle at it with me.
55:20He said, "The number of significant
55:23political controversies about
55:24challenging national histories has
55:26escalated dramatically with the rise of
55:28reactionary and populist politics. If
55:30there's one thing we should be able to
55:31agree on it is that history shows us
55:33that demanding the enforcement of a
55:35single narrative about the past, whether
55:37it be nationalist or ideological, is
55:39always destructive. Yeah, the use of
55:42dismissive labels against those who come
55:44to different conclusions feeds division
55:46and undermines understanding.
55:48I mean,
55:49where, as I so often ask on this
55:52podcast, where do you even begin here?
55:55Um, one that obviously comes to mind
55:58is the way is the way you say Micheál
56:02Martin very much engages in the national
56:03project, very much the regime and forced
56:06project because it's the view entire
56:08entirely backed by the state,
56:10the view entirely given voice to in the
56:12state-funded media,
56:14uh,
56:15the view entirely supported by again
56:17many state-funded academics and things
56:18like this,
56:20that uh Ireland has always been a
56:22diverse and multicultural nation in a
56:24manner as iden- identical to Ireland the
56:28Ireland of 2026, which is obviously
56:30abject nonsense and completely untrue.
56:32But if you diverge from that, you're a
56:34racist far far
56:36far right all all the rest of it. And
56:39indeed, it's on the Dáil record, uh
56:41again from Micheál Martin,
56:43that to have any concerns at all about
56:44that is to, quote, "import the little
56:47Englander mentality."
56:49So, here's a quote from Micheál Martin,
56:52uh in the Dáil on this. He said, "Let us
56:55all be very clear on one thing. Those
56:57who want to seal off Ireland from the
56:59world, those who aspire to some mythical
57:01purity on this island know nothing of
57:03our past and have nothing to offer a
57:05country whose progress and prosperity is
57:08fundamentally based on its diversity and
57:10engagement with the world. Their attempt
57:12to import the little Englander mentality
57:14continues to be overwhelmingly rejected
57:16by the Irish people."
57:18It's like you got it all there. You've
57:21got a dismissive label for the people
57:22who have concerns about modern
57:24immigration policy. You have a
57:27completely botched view of Irish history
57:29itself that he's sort of saying that if
57:32you if you take a different view than
57:33this, you know, your view is decisively
57:35rejected by the people of Ireland and,
57:38you know,
57:39you have I thought that was an
57:40astonishing line. They know nothing of
57:42our past and have nothing to offer a
57:44country.
57:45Like better according to
57:46>> They know nothing of the
57:47backwards-looking idea of sovereignty.
57:51>> Well, yeah, there is another one that I
57:53could have included, but like that's the
57:54whole thing with him. You have an
57:55endless number of absolute
57:58screamers to choose from and he's
58:00standing up there at the West Cork
58:01History Festival saying, you know,
58:03talking about
58:04history being used to uplift and empower
58:06people and how some the extremists and
58:09the the idealogues, especially those who
58:11engage in
58:12populist and reactionary politics, which
58:14by the way
58:17there's no better populist and
58:18reactionary politics than the than those
58:20who are currently in Irish government.
58:22Their solution to everything at the
58:23moment is throw money at it because
58:25that's what people like to see. They
58:26have no real solutions for anything.
58:29Uh
58:30and just to stop got measured. So, like,
58:32okay,
58:33referendums on things we think might do
58:35well, money for popular causes, sports,
58:38you know, community events, whatever the
58:40hell you want, we'll give it to you. Um
58:42they are the masters of reactionary and
58:45populist politics. Um but because the
58:47narrative was kind of on their side in
58:49terms of, you know, framing those with
58:51concerns with anything in a particular
58:53way, they're more than happy to do it
58:54and engage in it. And we all margin the
58:56teacher cuz one of the worst for doing
58:57it, if not the worst for doing it. So,
59:00it is laughable for him to stand up
59:02there on the stage and talk like this
59:04um given that his his own goal record
59:06has lost another like another one. You
59:07want another another example? I mean,
59:09there's loads of great articles about
59:11how
59:13uh and thank thanks be to God for A Grip
59:15providing a platform for these about the
59:17way the Mother and Baby Home narrative
59:19has gone out of control in Ireland.
59:22People talk about them as though they
59:24were essentially uh concentration camps
59:27when it's very far from that and that
59:29the church was single-handedly running
59:31them and that you essentially had
59:32bloodthirsty nuns throwing infants out
59:34the window.
59:35Um and things like that. And it's like
59:36that's so far from the truth and would
59:38require a whole 'nother topic a whole
59:40'nother podcast to go into and debunk.
59:43But as I say, there are many articles on
59:44Grip people can read about that and
59:46elsewhere and other good publications.
59:48Uh people people have uh
59:50uh taken the acts to that narrative. But
59:52anyway, nevertheless, on the Dáil record
59:54again in 2020 and 2021, um I think it
59:57was upon the release of uh one of the
59:59reports in 2021, Micheál Martin said,
1:00:03"We embraced a perverse religious
1:00:05morality and control, judgmentalism and
1:00:07moral certainty, but we shunned our
1:00:09daughters. We honored piety, but failed
1:00:12to show even basic kindness to those who
1:00:14needed it most. We had a completely
1:00:16warped attitude to sexuality and
1:00:18intimacy, and young mothers and their
1:00:19sons and daughters were forced to pay a
1:00:21terrible price for that dysfunction. To
1:00:23confront the dark and shameful reality
1:00:25which is detailed in this report, we
1:00:27must acknowledge it as part of our
1:00:28national history."
1:00:30Like, I don't acknowledge that
1:00:33uh
1:00:34um
1:00:35description of our history because it's
1:00:37not true. That's not what happened. Uh
1:00:40but it like me saying that, undoubtedly
1:00:42even some listeners might disagree with
1:00:44me saying that. So, I certainly there
1:00:46were failings, but we did not How do you
1:00:48put it? We did not
1:00:50embrace a perverse religious morality
1:00:52and control.
1:00:54If that was the case, I would like to
1:00:55know how it is we have so many societal
1:00:57failings around now even though
1:00:59uh religion has completely gone out the
1:01:01window for the vast majority of people
1:01:03in this country. You know, I know a lot
1:01:05of people call themselves devout
1:01:06Catholics and things, but
1:01:08you know, I would say all you know,
1:01:09honestly, you're looking at about at
1:01:11most 20% of people take it very serious
1:01:1320% of people I can't remember what the
1:01:15exact number is
1:01:16for how many people go to mass every
1:01:17Sunday, which is the absolute basic, but
1:01:19it is very low in the country. So,
1:01:21>> Yeah, what what what do you
1:01:23>> Yeah, which which would you say is more
1:01:26sexually perverse, modern Ireland or old
1:01:28Ireland? Like, what Honestly, like
1:01:30find me a person who thinks that that's
1:01:33we're we're better on that metric. Like,
1:01:35honestly, what's the T comes to mind or
1:01:38any other number of examples just to
1:01:40give one. Um I I I do want to uh quickly
1:01:44get to some viewer questions because I'm
1:01:46conscious of the fact that
1:01:47>> You're right.
1:01:48>> uh we are going a bit over time. And so,
1:01:51we have a question here from Mary. And
1:01:54And by the way, actually, before I start
1:01:55this, again, just to remind people, if
1:01:57you would like to ask a question that
1:01:59gets answered on this podcast, you can
1:02:00go to gript.ie/questions.
1:02:03The link to that should be on the screen
1:02:05for viewers. And so, that's how these
1:02:07people ask their questions, and we're
1:02:09very grateful to them for that. And
1:02:11thank you for your continued interest.
1:02:13We have Mary here who says, "Should
1:02:15Irish-Americans who love Ireland and are
1:02:17disgusted to what has happened here be
1:02:20allowed to vote in all elections? If
1:02:22Ukrainians and asylum seekers with no
1:02:24cultural connection can vote, why not
1:02:26third-generation Irish-Americans? Why
1:02:29can't they have that right?" Um what do
1:02:31you think of that, Jason?
1:02:35And thank you for your question, Mary.
1:02:37If this
1:02:39Yeah, no, thank you for your support,
1:02:41Mary. It's very much appreciated. Um if
1:02:43you were hoping that my answer would be
1:02:45yes, I'm sorry to disappoint. I don't
1:02:47think
1:02:48uh the vote should be opened up to, you
1:02:51know, uh say third-generation Americans
1:02:53or even once you start getting into
1:02:55generations because you could expand
1:02:57that
1:02:58to include so many people across the
1:03:00globe that it would just be farcical,
1:03:01first of all.
1:03:03But also, you know, you say people who
1:03:05are disgusted by immigration, like, I'm
1:03:06sure there are a great many
1:03:07Irish-Americans who, you know,
1:03:10are more than supportive of the way
1:03:11modern Ireland has gone. Um
1:03:14And so, that sort of electoral effect, I
1:03:17I feel I personally will be very much
1:03:19outbalanced, but it's more so the
1:03:21principle that like
1:03:22if you were to justify doing something
1:03:24like that, you could justify opening up
1:03:26the Irish vote any
1:03:28Who knows how many people you could end
1:03:29up opening opening it up to because why
1:03:31limit it to America? Why not limit it
1:03:32to, you know, people multiple, you know,
1:03:35multiple generations removed from
1:03:36Ireland in any country across the world.
1:03:40So, it it just seems entirely unfeasible
1:03:42to me. I mean, I completely agree with
1:03:44the concern about people in Ireland you
1:03:48know, months probably in some cases
1:03:50being able to vote in local elections
1:03:51and things like that. I don't
1:03:53know. Like, I think that should be
1:03:54stopped.
1:03:55I I haven't really come down on I think
1:03:57the more interesting one is the question
1:03:59about diaspora voting because, you know,
1:04:01okay, selfish stake, I would love to be
1:04:03able to vote in Irish elections, but I
1:04:05obviously can't because I'm living
1:04:06abroad now.
1:04:07And and, you know, the line goes that
1:04:10while you're not here, it's you don't
1:04:11have a stake in the country's future, so
1:04:14you don't get a vote. I was like, well,
1:04:15I would actually say I probably have
1:04:16more stake in the country that I'm from
1:04:20and that I do still very much think of
1:04:21as home
1:04:22than someone who arrived, you know, a
1:04:25couple months back and who nevertheless
1:04:28has the right to vote. So, I think that
1:04:30there are definitely conversations to
1:04:32have about voting eligibility and
1:04:34things. And I'm open to being convinced
1:04:36that, you know,
1:04:37yeah,
1:04:38people gone abroad actually don't, yeah,
1:04:40like myself, have the right to vote. And
1:04:41I I I can appreciate some of those
1:04:42arguments, but
1:04:44nevertheless, not to not to third
1:04:46generation or any other generation
1:04:50immigrants immigrants from Ireland. I
1:04:52just think it's way too messy. I don't
1:04:53know what you think, Ben.
1:04:55>> Yeah, I would I would broadly agree. I
1:04:57think you'd run into some I think
1:04:58there's a general principle. I don't I
1:05:00don't like the idea of people being able
1:05:02to vote in important elections who don't
1:05:04reside in the country and have to deal
1:05:06with the consequences of their vote. You
1:05:08know, like we collectively as Irish
1:05:10people decide to vote in X or Y party as
1:05:13part of our government, then on our
1:05:15heads be it. But there's something I
1:05:17think dangerous about voting for
1:05:20somebody and then you don't even live
1:05:22there. So if the whole thing explodes
1:05:24and goes horribly wrong, then you don't
1:05:25even pay the price, you know? Like the
1:05:27The beauty of a democracy is you pay the
1:05:29price and then you learn your lesson,
1:05:31hopefully, is the idea. Lessons will be
1:05:33learned, as they say.
1:05:34>> Well, the terrible thing is you also pay
1:05:35the price for other people's stupid
1:05:37voting
1:05:38preferences, but
1:05:40>> There's a lot of that, too.
1:05:41>> Yeah, there's a lot of that, but no,
1:05:42that is, as I say, one of the arguments
1:05:44that, as I say, I am sympathetic to. So
1:05:46yeah, no, not opening up the vote anyone
1:05:47beyond the island of Ireland, but again,
1:05:50still preferably
1:05:51>> I'll say this, like if if any change was
1:05:54to be made to our voting system and our
1:05:56our franchise, I believe that it should
1:05:58be to make it more restrictive, not to
1:06:02be constantly expanding it to more and
1:06:04more and more people all the time and
1:06:06letting
1:06:07uh 16-year-olds vote and letting
1:06:11uh you know,
1:06:13migrants vote and trying to get
1:06:15everybody in.
1:06:16Like if anything, I think I don't know
1:06:18that I would vote for this. I'd have to
1:06:20tease it out and no serious person is
1:06:22suggesting it, but I think you could
1:06:24even make a case for raising the voting
1:06:26age, you know, that kind of thing. So
1:06:28that Ideally,
1:06:31>> Ideally, you could only vote if you
1:06:32could prove you've been to mass
1:06:35every Sunday of of of the year that
1:06:38you're voting in.
1:06:39>> [laughter]
1:06:40>> That's
1:06:41uh like
1:06:42That's a joke, obviously. Obviously, for
1:06:44those who don't catch it.
1:06:47Um we might also uh respond to a
1:06:50question here from Barney, who says,
1:06:53"What do you think will happen to the
1:06:55country once multinationals are forced
1:06:57back to the US through tariffs, et
1:06:59cetera? And do you think it will be
1:07:00positive or negative for Ireland in the
1:07:03long term?" I think this kind of might
1:07:05dovetail with
1:07:06some of our earlier discussion about
1:07:08whether the country
1:07:10is being subjected to be too much
1:07:14econ- economy worship, I guess. Cuz
1:07:17obviously
1:07:19it would be devastating to our economy.
1:07:21I don't want the multinationals to pull
1:07:23out. I'll put it that way. If I could
1:07:25hit one and they don't pull out, I would
1:07:27hit that button, you know, that would be
1:07:28an ideal situation because we have
1:07:31managed to achieve an economic miracle.
1:07:34We have
1:07:36uh you know, benefited greatly from it
1:07:38in a whole variety of ways. Or at least
1:07:40we have had the potential to benefit
1:07:42from it greatly. Whether we have
1:07:43capitalized on that potential or not is
1:07:45a whole other question. So, I don't want
1:07:48to see this country become destitute. I
1:07:50don't want to see this country lose out
1:07:52on
1:07:53uh any kind of prosperity cuz I'm a
1:07:55patriotic person. I love my country. So,
1:07:58I'm not wishing for the multinationals
1:08:00to leave. But, if they do leave
1:08:04I don't know that that would necessarily
1:08:06be the worst thing in the world in the
1:08:07sense that it would
1:08:09force us to build up a domestic
1:08:11industry, which we really should have
1:08:13had all along and we really should have
1:08:15been building that
1:08:17from the start, but we haven't been. And
1:08:20so, uh I guess it making us be more
1:08:22self-sufficient and independent
1:08:25would be a benefit. You know, you can
1:08:26always find a silver lining in any bad
1:08:28situation. So, I don't think it would be
1:08:31uniformly disastrous.
1:08:33Um
1:08:33yeah, I I I don't know that uh it would
1:08:37always
1:08:39uh like it it it'd be helpful if we
1:08:40weren't
1:08:43It would be helpful if Ireland was less
1:08:45global in general. I'll put it that way.
1:08:47I wish our politicians would focus on
1:08:49domestic issues that are happening here
1:08:51rather than trying to cater to
1:08:53international conglomerates and America
1:08:57and Europe and this and that.
1:08:59Let just just be an Irish politician and
1:09:02focus on Irish things and the country
1:09:04will be much better.
1:09:05>> Yeah, I mean it is a complex thing.
1:09:08I I I largely agree with everything you
1:09:10said. I mean
1:09:12I think that among some people who are
1:09:13disillusioned about the way Ireland has
1:09:15gone
1:09:16and they just like lick their lips at
1:09:18the prospect of the multinationals going
1:09:20and it absolutely bankrupting the
1:09:22country.
1:09:23And I was obviously only in my early
1:09:26teens at the time of the if you even I
1:09:28would have been I can't remember exactly
1:09:29now I would have been 12 13 that region
1:09:31anyway at the time the sort of
1:09:34uh
1:09:342008 2009 2010 those uh financially
1:09:38horrendous years.
1:09:39Um
1:09:41and that
1:09:42did a lot of damage to a lot of people.
1:09:44A lot of people were really
1:09:47uh suicides rose about time. Uh a lot of
1:09:50unhealthy trends sort of got underway in
1:09:53terms of like alcoholism and uh
1:09:57all the things you would expect to
1:09:58accompany a recession.
1:10:00And it was a very tough time for a lot
1:10:02of people and you don't wish that at
1:10:04all.
1:10:05Um and so the ideal thing would be that
1:10:08you could just you know regain clarity
1:10:10without something calamitous like that
1:10:12happening. But
1:10:14it's also the case that
1:10:16um
1:10:17it's kind of like kind of like I was
1:10:18talking about earlier. My own thoughts
1:10:19on this anyway that these are good
1:10:20things but they're not the most
1:10:21important or the best things. Um I think
1:10:25it's far more important to be
1:10:27properly oriented towards what I would
1:10:30see as the classically as the good and
1:10:31the true and the beautiful and that if
1:10:33you do that you'll con- construct you
1:10:35know it's hard work but you'll construct
1:10:37a good
1:10:38society and unfortunately I do feel far
1:10:41too much as though Ireland is
1:10:44subservient to the economy at the cost
1:10:46of all else. Not not Ireland but our
1:10:49politicians certainly are and that's
1:10:50very much their calculus.
1:10:52That sees like considerations as we were
1:10:55going earlier social cohesion
1:10:57you know put to the side in favor of
1:10:59issuing however many visas
1:11:01people are willing to take, they'll put
1:11:02them out there. Um and it's like, well,
1:11:05you might well be losing something
1:11:06there, but it ultimately doesn't matter
1:11:08because it's, you know, good for the
1:11:10economy right It's good for the GDP
1:11:12right now, this second, and therefore
1:11:13we'll do it.
1:11:15Um and I think that
1:11:17if the multinationals were to pull out,
1:11:20it would Okay, so you would have a lot
1:11:22of harm and damage done. Lots of people
1:11:24would lose jobs.
1:11:26Uh it would be absolutely disastrous for
1:11:28Ireland's balance books and things like
1:11:29that.
1:11:31The country would be a lot poorer.
1:11:32There's no doubt about it. Uh and
1:11:35that comes with a lot of
1:11:36That would be very uncomfortable and
1:11:38very painful.
1:11:40But I also just belong to that school of
1:11:42thought that it's like Catholicism or as
1:11:44we just like
1:11:46that Avoiding discomfort ought not to be
1:11:49the primary goal of life. Um and in a
1:11:52circumstances like that,
1:11:54you would have an ideal opportunity for
1:11:58having tough conversations about Okay,
1:11:59what are you supposed to do about as you
1:12:01say self-sufficiency, about
1:12:03you know, what matters now? What What
1:12:05When your back's against the wall, what
1:12:07are the essentials that you have to
1:12:08focus on to build something good? And uh
1:12:11we are prevented from having a lot of
1:12:12these conversations by the government
1:12:14absolutely raking in cash and just using
1:12:17cash to throw with everything. And
1:12:19clearly it's like that's not heading in
1:12:20a good direction, either, like and
1:12:22there's a lot of
1:12:23ill coming from that as as we discuss
1:12:25plenty on this podcast, but um
1:12:28it would be a messy thing and there
1:12:29would be a lot of pain and it would be
1:12:30very uncomfortable, but
1:12:31certainly there would be hope for a
1:12:33brighter future, I think, in that. But
1:12:36it it's That brighter future is
1:12:37something we could aim at now as well,
1:12:39but we just choose not to, so it's uh
1:12:42it's multifaceted.
1:12:44>> Most definitely. And we appreciate
1:12:46everybody who wrote in. Thank you for
1:12:48the question, uh Barney, and thank you
1:12:50to everybody else who has written in,
1:12:51and please continue to do so cuz we
1:12:54enjoy engaging with our audience and we
1:12:57appreciate everybody's continued support
1:12:59and viewing. So with that said, we will
1:13:01catch you all next week for another
1:13:02episode of the Long Game podcast. God
1:13:05bless.
1:13:06>> God bless.

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