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Africa: The Future of Global Christianity with Pastor Julius Rwotlonyo — Transcript

by Rob Hoskins · 7,830 words · 1,239 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00kind of the center
0:01of the global church is Africa now. Mhm.
0:04This is Africa's century, we like to
0:06say.
0:06>> Africa's century, I believe that.
0:07>> And there's a responsibility that comes
0:09with that.
0:10>> Yes. So, you're the most Christian
0:11continent. You're the youngest
0:12continent. So, that's a lot to
0:14celebrate.
0:14>> That is huge potential for God's
0:17kingdom.
0:24Today on The Mission Leader, I get to
0:26sit down with my good friend Pastor
0:28Julius Rwolatwanjo. He is the team
0:31leader of Watoto Church Ministries,
0:33which is one of the most vibrant church
0:35communities in all of Africa with over
0:3735,000 people gathering across Uganda,
0:41South Sudan, and online. Pastor Julius
0:43leads a movement that rescues vulnerable
0:45children, it equips women, and is
0:48radically committed to transforming
0:50communities through the gospel. So, in
0:52our conversation, we talk about one of
0:54the greatest opportunities before the
0:56global church right now, which is the
0:58next generation in Africa. Africa is
1:01home to the world's youngest population
1:03and is quickly becoming the global
1:05epicenter of all of Christianity. The
1:08way we invest in discipling and raising
1:09up young leaders in this moment will
1:12shape the future of the church globally.
1:14So, Pastor Julius brings deep insight,
1:16pastoral wisdom, and really a prophetic
1:18vision for how we can empower this
1:21generation to lead with courage, faith,
1:23and kingdom purpose.
1:26Well, we're in an incredible spot today.
1:28We're at the Billy Graham Center on the
1:30campus of Wheaton College. It's such a
1:32historic place for the kingdom, really
1:35for the church global. I love coming
1:37here. If you've never had a chance to
1:38come, Billy Graham Museum here on campus
1:41is amazing, and the work that they do
1:43here out of the center is really
1:44incredible in serving the global church.
1:46So, I have such a great relationship
1:48with so many of our friends, so they
1:49were gracious enough to let me use their
1:51their podcast room here. I hate to tell
1:53you it's down in the basement. I'm down
1:55we're down in the basement today, so Um
1:57It's going to work.
1:58>> It's going to work. And I'm here with
1:59one of my favorite people in all the
2:01earth that's with me today. We happen to
2:04be here together, and so I thought I got
2:06to grab a few minutes with Julius and
2:08have a conversation. So, this is Pastor
2:11Julius Ru
2:13what? Rutlonyo.
2:15You try.
2:16>> I'm trying.
2:17Rutlonyo. Yeah.
2:19Did I get it? You got it.
2:20>> You roll the R? Yeah, you did it. It's
2:22just Rutlonyo.
2:23>> It's just Rut. It's not the the the
2:25roll.
2:26No, okay. All right. So, we'll just go
2:28with Pastor Julius. How's that? Yes,
2:29that's very easy. Julius is even better.
2:33Um we've been friends for a long time,
2:35and and done so much work together. So,
2:39Pastor now
2:41of an amazing church, Watoto Church,
2:43Yeah. in Kampala. Watoto means child
2:47children. That's children. In Swahili?
2:49In Swahili. In Swahili. Yeah. And church
2:51was planted by incredible couple Um they
2:55were They were they they say they're
2:57missionaries from Canada, but they've
2:58grown up in Africa.
3:00>> Yeah, yes. Gary was born in Africa.
3:02>> born there. So, really more African in
3:03some ways. The only thing that's not
3:05probably Africa is the color of his
3:07skin, but every That's it. He's he's
3:09African through and through. He is.
3:11Planted one of the great churches in
3:12Africa. Just give us a sense of and and
3:15you grew up you got saved in the church.
3:17>> saved in the church. As a young man. 10
3:19years old. 10 years old.
3:20>> And now it's an honor for me to be
3:22leading Watoto Church.
3:24>> Yeah, I was so I was so honored to be at
3:27the transition.
3:28>> Yes. Gary had asked if I could work with
3:30you even before the transition. So,
3:32we've been in a mentor relationship for
3:34for quite a few years.
3:35>> That's right.
3:35>> And man, what a happy day that was for
3:37me.
3:37>> It was beautiful.
3:38>> him
3:39actually wash your feet. Man, that had
3:42to be so humbling.
3:43>> Yeah. Incredible moment. And then handed
3:46the church over, and man, I've loved
3:48what your leadership is doing there with
3:50the church. Taking it to a whole other
3:51level. How many campuses now? 17
3:53campuses.
3:54>> Wow. We're still
3:56Yeah, planting the 18th. Are you really?
3:58Yeah, in a couple of months.
3:59>> And how many of those would be in
4:00Kampala? In Kampala, we have
4:03um
4:0415 of those. And the others are in South
4:06Sudan? We have uh actually, it's uh 13
4:09in Kampala, and then we have one in um
4:12Barara, another one in Jinja, another
4:14one in northern Uganda, two of them up
4:16there, then one in South Sudan. Okay, so
4:18two in northern Uganda and one in South
4:19Sudan. Yes.
4:20>> And those are the north the northeast is
4:22where there's really where the poverty
4:24is in Uganda. So, it's a campus that's
4:26really a missional outreach.
4:28>> That's right.
4:28>> And then of course, South Sudan, a brand
4:29new nation, and you planted there early.
4:31So, incredible work going on.
4:34Um so, across those campuses, you'd have
4:36how many members, attendees?
4:38>> We have on average um um our weekly
4:41attendance is 35,000.
4:42>> Wow, that's incredible. So wonderful.
4:45And so spiritually vibrant and alive. My
4:47favorite worship in the whole world.
4:49People ask me to sort of rate the
4:50churches I go to around the world.
4:52You're number one in worship, man. Thank
4:54you. Thank you, Rock. I got to put my
4:56dancing shoes on when I get there.
4:57>> We love to dance. We love to dance.
4:59>> some moves. We can't do it on the
5:00podcast today, but uh
5:02yeah, and then um just this incredible
5:04blend. You know, it's been a challenge
5:06for in many ways the Western church, the
5:07American church. It's almost like we've
5:09had this tension between uh social
5:12gospel and and spiritual
5:15uh dy- evangelism and discipleship over
5:17here, and then doing good works, the
5:19Great Commission, and the Great
5:20Commandment. And it seems like almost
5:22churches are in tension in that. But in
5:24Africa, there's no tension in that
5:25space. It's kind of like the church just
5:28breathes that way. Right. The two blend.
5:31Right. And
5:33I don't know if I've ever seen that as
5:34well done as it is at Watoto. Because
5:36you're a more of an upper class, white
5:38collar church.
5:39>> Yes, we are. Well, young students. Um
5:42corporates. You corporates, political
5:45people.
5:45>> Yes, that's right. But from the very
5:47beginning you've had this passion for
5:49the poor.
5:50Um what Toto has created, what I believe
5:53is the greatest model of orphan care.
5:57Um you don't even like to call it orphan
5:59care or orphanage care. Explain a little
6:01bit about what you've done in that
6:02space. And and so yeah, by the way Rob,
6:04it's not always been like that. It was a
6:06journey that I found as Gary and Marilyn
6:09went through. They also had the classic
6:11thinking of church is just what we do
6:13within the four walls until God
6:15challenged them to pay attention to the
6:17pain in the community.
6:18>> Okay.
6:18>> If God wanted to do something to bring
6:21his healing in the community, who would
6:22he ask? It was these people. It was this
6:24this was the church. And that radically
6:26changed how we did church. And so we
6:29celebrate everything Jesus has done in
6:31the four walls, but we care about the
6:33people that Jesus cares about and those
6:34are the ones in the community. And at
6:36that time
6:3840 years ago HIV AIDS hit our country so
6:41hard. We had political turmoil and left
6:43a lot of parentless children. And so
6:46that's what gave birth to the work we do
6:49to really
6:50to to bring rescue these children.
6:53And then begin to raise them to fulfill
6:54their potential.
6:55>> love the way you do it. You do it in
6:56homes.
6:57>> In homes. We put them in families.
7:00>> Yes, we we don't just put them in an
7:02institution. It's really in a family
7:04setting cuz we're trying to rebuild
7:06their lives again in a setting that
7:09would be a family home.
7:10>> kids living in those homes now?
7:11>> Right now we have about 3,000 children
7:14in our our children's homes. And in the
7:15other area where you've just really led
7:17the way and created By the way, if
7:18anybody is interested in
7:21really capturing the model of the homes
7:24and taking care of vulnerable children,
7:26but then also with vulnerable women.
7:29Yes.
7:29>> massive part of your work as well. It is
7:31about navigating where the pain is. That
7:34was what happened about 40 30 years ago.
7:37But as we kept on caring for our
7:39communities even through our small
7:41groups, we recognized that the needs and
7:43the vulnerability was changing. And so,
7:46we started to see another group which
7:48was right in our neighborhoods, in the
7:50city, and the informal settlements, the
7:53underserved communities. And the
7:55majority of the ones who are really
7:58taking the brunt of that was vulnerable
8:00single moms who are trying to raise
8:02their kids. And I I love the the story
8:05of transformation where I mean you don't
8:08want to take children away from their
8:09parents. So, so if the if if the mom is
8:12alone the church just surrounds them.
8:15>> Just comes along, so.
8:16>> But you also create such a It's It's
8:18economic development for them. It's not
8:20charity. It's how can we position this
8:22mom Yeah. to lead her home, to lead her
8:25children. And then where there are no
8:26parents, that's when the church steps
8:28in.
8:28>> That's when we step in. The abandoned
8:30babies that have nowhere to go. That's
8:33what we're there for. Children that
8:35community can't can't identify anybody
8:37in the community to care for them. So
8:38And you've done such a great job as
8:40we've talked through the years about,
8:41you know, really good principles of
8:43missiology of um you know, when helping
8:46hurts, um
8:47how does the African church um not
8:49become a charity church, how do they
8:52invest in development. So, you've got
8:54farming programs, you've got
8:55entrepreneurial business programs. We've
8:56done some of those together in the area
8:58of education and self-sustainability is
9:01really the end game here for us, right?
9:03And we see that as an example, Julius,
9:05around the continent. So, um Africa is
9:08not the Africa it was of the 20th
9:10century even. I mean, you look at your
9:11country, Uganda itself, you were one of
9:14the six you were the sixth poorest
9:15nation in the world, I think. Um over
9:1750% of the population underneath the
9:19poverty line.
9:20Then in the '90s, we saw that begin to
9:22turn a little bit. And then it moved to
9:24about uh about 25% of the population
9:27living under the poverty line. The last
9:29time I checked, you were at 16% You're
9:31going in the right direction.
9:32>> growth. There's only growth.
9:34>> development.
9:35>> Yes. And so, the church has leaned into
9:37that, and in some ways led that in
9:38Uganda and Watoto has been a huge part
9:40of that. So it's exciting. It's exciting
9:42to see. So So when you think about um
9:46your church is kind of to me a microcosm
9:48example of the African church.
9:51It's young. Yes, we are young.
9:53>> So So what would be the average age in
9:54your congregation?
9:55>> age of our congregation is about Now is
9:58about is the bracket of 18 to 25.
10:01>> Wow. It's the largest group. That's the
10:03largest group. And what about The 25s to
10:0635s, yeah.
10:07>> Yeah. So So Africa is now um they say
10:1260% and we'll talk about that 60%
10:14Christian Mhm. on the continent.
10:17Incredible miracle story. Turn Turn of
10:19the 19th century 4% of Africa was was
10:22Christian. And so now you've got 60%. So
10:24by far the fastest growth of the church
10:26over the last 100 years has been on the
10:27continent of Africa. And the growth of
10:29the church really we can say that the
10:31kind of the center
10:33of the global church is the epicenter is
10:36Africa now. Mhm. This is Africa's
10:38century we like to say.
10:39>> century. I believe that.
10:40>> And there's a responsibility that comes
10:42with that.
10:42>> Yes. Um and it's the youngest continent
10:45by far and growing rapidly. So 26% of
10:49all young people under the age of 18
10:51live on the continent of Africa but
10:52that's almost going to grow to 45%
10:54almost 50% by the year 2050. That's
10:57right. So you're the most Christian
10:58continent.
10:59You're the youngest continent.
11:02So that's a lot to celebrate.
11:03>> That is that is huge potential for God's
11:06kingdom. Yeah.
11:07>> Yeah. So you as a leader of one of the
11:10great churches in that environment a lot
11:12to celebrate but we we talked and we
11:15said well let's let's talk about
11:17not just the good news but the
11:18challenges that you're facing.
11:19>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
11:20>> And And so what would you see from your
11:22perspective um as as a pastor not just
11:26of the church but also of the nation to
11:28say uh wow Rob this is this is what
11:31keeps me up at night. This is what I
11:32pray about.
11:33>> All right. Um here's my concerns. Right.
11:35I'm I'm really excited. I'm glad you
11:37mentioned that uh that yes, it's it's
11:40it's a new day in Africa. We thank God
11:42for the growth in Christianity. For
11:44Uganda, actually, it's 80% Christian.
11:46>> Wow. So,
11:48uh that that is great statistics. But,
11:51when you look at how it's translating
11:54into actually the livelihoods and the
11:57change in society,
11:59there's a disconnect Mhm. between the
12:0280% and the impact of the 80%. Okay. And
12:06so, the things that keep me awake at
12:09night,
12:11let me start with the
12:12uh the great potential of the youth is
12:15the many influences, the globalization,
12:17the secularism that the young people are
12:20embracing cuz of the whole tech Mhm.
12:22revolution and all the young people are
12:25connected digitally. There's influence
12:27that comes there.
12:28And the church seems to be lagging
12:32behind.
12:33>> Okay.
12:34That's one. The second one, there's
12:36about three I'll mention. The second one
12:39is
12:40uh the whole
12:42uh um uh separation between uh our faith
12:46on the weekend and what we do during the
12:48week.
12:49>> Okay. There's a disconnect. So, we are
12:51happy to be in church on a weekend on a
12:54Sunday, but the rest of the week
12:57the church and Christianity doesn't
12:59influence us.
13:00>> Mhm. So, there's a disconnect, right?
13:02>> So, there's there's We look at the
13:03African church, we just see this
13:05incredible spiritual vibrancy. But, what
13:07you're saying is in the midst of that
13:08spiritual vibrancy, there's almost a
13:10bifurcation between my spiritual life
13:14and my day-to-day life.
13:15>> My everyday life. Mhm. It doesn't
13:18connect
13:19>> Okay. there. The other one is
13:21>> is there a threat of almost evangelical
13:23nominalism rising? Like I'm I'm a
13:26Christian. That it's it's common. It's
13:28actually celebrated. Christianity is
13:30becoming just part of the culture.
13:32>> Mhm. Um and uh it's a good thing, but
13:34it's also bad yeah, because then it
13:37stops to have its impact that it's meant
13:39to have. The transformational piece of
13:41what Jesus does to really form us from
13:44the inside out gets to be missed.
13:47>> Mhm. And so um that's a huge challenge.
13:50We actually with One Hope started we did
13:52um a global youth culture as well, uh
13:55research for for Uganda. Mhm. And I mean
13:59yes, you the statistics were the same.
14:0080% young people I'm a Christian, but
14:03when it came to actually committed one
14:06Spiritual vibrancy and discipleship.
14:08>> it dropped to 30%.
14:09>> Wow. Yeah. And so that keeps me awake at
14:13night cuz if they're not grounded and
14:15rooted, what what are we going to give?
14:17What's going to happen to our nation in
14:19the future? And in fact you know, your
14:22your church has been one of the leaders
14:23of One Hope because Pastor Gary, the
14:25founder of your church, was a good
14:27friend of my dad's who's the founder of
14:29One Hope and more than 30 years ago they
14:31were in a conversation and he said,
14:33"Man, this One Hope, the vision my dad
14:34had, God's word every child."
14:36>> Right. He said, "We need it in Uganda.
14:38We we want to we want to pioneer it in
14:40Uganda." So you pioneered it 30 years
14:42ago and and and you really are it's
14:44almost it's not almost it is we
14:46franchised One Hope to
14:48to your church and you've led the way.
14:50It's housed in your offices. Um most of
14:53the staff are part of the church.
14:55>> Yes. But you've been so generous to say,
14:57"No, it's God's word every child." And
14:59you work with literally thousands of
15:00churches.
15:01>> Yes, we do around the country.
15:03>> And in the last few years you were
15:04telling me, you know more about you you
15:06know more about One Hope Uganda than I
15:07>> 28 million children and youth reached.
15:10>> Wow. Yeah, they have had God's word
15:13given to them in person.
15:15>> Yeah, and this this zeal for evangelism
15:17Yes. that it that is in your church is
15:18incredible. We want to do it cuz we we
15:21we don't just pastor Watoto Church, we
15:24think about the city, the nation. That's
15:27our mindset and how we can collaborate
15:30with other churches to do it. So, when
15:32we have friends like One Hope, we want
15:34to introduce all our other friends and
15:36church community to One Hope. In fact,
15:39you guys developed a program speaking to
15:41one of those issues you talked about,
15:42which is um
15:43hey, there's there's this kind of
15:45shallowness within the faith.
15:47>> Yeah. And we want to in some ways
15:50disciple the evangelized. Yes. And so,
15:52you developed a program. It started out
15:54called God's Big Story. One of the young
15:56ladies on your staff um said, "We need
15:59to go deeper." And it was almost like a
16:01under for the under-resourced church in
16:02Africa. So, it's it's that particular
16:05program that was created in Uganda is
16:07now in over last time I checked about 80
16:09different nations around the world. So,
16:11as you as I as I've heard you in the
16:13past and I'm even hearing you today,
16:15there's sort of three things I'm
16:16hearing. There's we have to keep
16:19evangelizing the lost. We have many who
16:22have not heard the gospel. Yes. that
16:23don't have the gospel. Like we we we
16:25hear about this big church and we're
16:26like, "Really, there's still people that
16:27aren't that have never had a chance to
16:29know Jesus?"
16:30There is. Yeah. It's it's amazing. It's
16:33it's an assumption to think that when
16:35you're in your own world where things
16:36are going and happening, you see
16:38salvations every time. That's what we
16:40see, we experience. You can get to think
16:42that people actually there's people that
16:44don't know the gospel, but there is.
16:46There's communities in Uganda that have
16:48not had the gospel. And in some ways,
16:50it's very geographic. I mean, so kind of
16:53again, Uganda is the microcosm because
16:55it's you're you're moving north. Right.
16:58You're going into Sudan. You're going
17:00into the Sahel. You're going into
17:02northern Africa,
17:03which has been mainly animistic Mhm. and
17:06Islamic, but even the Islam is more like
17:08folk Islam. Right. And so, that's where
17:11you're doing most of your unreached
17:14people group work and where you asked us
17:16to create
17:17>> Yes, and we need materials cuz we we we
17:20we've been equipped to preach the gospel
17:21to those who have some sort of
17:23background.
17:24>> Yeah.
17:25But when it comes to those who have no
17:27background in the faith, we actually are
17:29not yet equipped to do that as well as
17:31>> So we created a bunch of children's
17:32material specifically for Muslim and
17:34animistic audience.
17:35>> There you go. And so you guys have been
17:38not only reaching thousands of children
17:40and young people with that material, but
17:42helping the church plant churches where
17:44there's never been churches before.
17:46>> Absolutely. And it's it's interesting.
17:48Talk a little bit about cuz when people
17:50hear about church planting and children
17:51youth work, it doesn't really seem like
17:53a normal thing. But in Africa, it's kind
17:55of natural, right? You show up in the
17:56town, the little village, and children
18:00and young people will be flocking cuz
18:02they are hungry. They want to hear.
18:04They're inquisitive. They want to know.
18:07And uh what's that that was me. I was 10
18:09years old and
18:11I'm being attracted to this evangelistic
18:13drama. So so it's very open. Wow.
18:17>> Africa is so open to the gospel. This is
18:20like a window we have
18:23of influencing a generation, not just a
18:26generation, but a continent. Yeah. So So
18:29there's this passion to say, "Hey,
18:30great. We're 60% nominal, but there's
18:3340% that have never heard the gospel.
18:35We're going hard after them. Let's
18:36evangelize the lost." But then there's
18:39this, "Hey, let's disciple the
18:42evangelized."
18:43And it's making sure that in your
18:45language, like it's not something we
18:47just do on a Sunday. This is This is we
18:49have to be discipled for this to be
18:51something that consumes all of life.
18:53Yes. And where you know,
18:56we we've heard and I don't really
18:58believe this, but that the church is
19:00mile
19:01>> mile wide and an
19:03>> wide and an inch deep. Yes.
19:05I don't see that so much in Africa, but
19:07you as a pastor are saying, "Okay, maybe
19:08it's not a Maybe it's not a mile wide,
19:11but you're saying maybe it's 80% wide
19:13and 20%
19:15or 30% of of our young people. So so
19:18this deep discipleship that you're
19:19you're beginning and that
19:21that in essence you haven't had material
19:23for either. We
19:25I mean when you talk about discipleship
19:27and and I do understand cuz like I said
19:30earlier where our faith has just become
19:32a Sunday event, part of the culture, but
19:35has not influenced our lives. What's
19:37going on now is the young people
19:41especially
19:42>> Mhm. are asking questions that the
19:45church leadership and the older
19:47generation
19:49cannot answer. Wow. So discipleship has
19:52changed. What was discipleship 30 years
19:56ago, 20 years ago? The things
19:59discipleship answered are not the same
20:01today. The Gen alpha, the Gen Z are
20:04asking questions that are challenging. I
20:07remember being with a with a pastor
20:09and we'd done the research and we said,
20:11you know, let's have a conversation with
20:13the pastors cuz Africa is very
20:14hierarchical and it kind of flows from
20:17the big man down, from the pastor down,
20:20not just in the church, but also in
20:21society, in business, in politics, and
20:23everything. And so I was meeting with
20:25these church leaders, the gatekeepers,
20:27and I was showing them the data and
20:28there was almost this
20:30no, we don't have a problem with
20:31homosexuality in Africa. It's taboo
20:33here.
20:35We do have a problem.
20:37Because It's there. It's there.
20:39>> And the young people are asking
20:41questions. They're saying I have
20:43struggles. Our research
20:45>> And and and saying just say no doesn't
20:47work anymore for this generation.
20:49>> Cuz our research showed when we did the
20:51GYC for Uganda, I think it was about 30%
20:55of the young people, the Gen Z, were
20:58asking were having issues of identity. I
21:01have an identity challenge.
21:02>> Yeah.
21:03And so I
21:04>> church unprepared to answer those
21:05questions right now.
21:06>> We we have just shut our eyes. And I
21:09think a lot of it too, particularly, you
21:11know, as us as Pentecostal Charismatics,
21:12the other thing we saw in the data was a
21:14real problem with mental health. Yes.
21:17>> suicidal ideation. Yes. And that was
21:20sort of the response of the traditional
21:22churches
21:23just pray more.
21:25And we love to pray in Africa. So, those
21:27are the new challenges.
21:29What what do you do when
21:32prayer is just not enough? I have I have
21:34some young people who haven't some
21:36mental health challenges coming to me.
21:38It was new for me. Mhm.
21:40And I can no longer just pray. I wasn't
21:42trained. And somebody tells you I'm a
21:44student and
21:46a pastor, I love to do worship. I'm
21:48creative, but I am I am struggling with
21:51depression. Mhm.
21:53And
21:55please help me.
21:56And I'm like And is there some sense too
21:58of coming out of the animism Mhm. where
22:01African spirituality would say,
22:04um
22:05you know, there's something supernatural
22:07that if I do it, I can quickly solve
22:09this problem.
22:10It's a quick fix mindset.
22:12>> It's a quick fix mindset. And it's crept
22:13into the church.
22:15>> it's all it's the gods. It's the that
22:17that will do that. But and that
22:19unfortunately is how we start to view
22:21God as well. He's one of those who could
22:25help me in my issue. Mhm. And that's why
22:27it comes into the whole
22:30my my wide Mhm. and inch deep. Okay.
22:33Because God becomes one of the options.
22:37So, it's almost like you have to sort of
22:39say in some ways like if if nominalism
22:43continues to sort of
22:45be
22:46part of the African makeup, it's it it's
22:49almost like creating a spirituality
22:53that's a little bit like witchcraft if
22:55you're not careful.
22:55>> Yes. Yes, actually could be. It could
22:58be. Because
23:00And that whole mixture. And it comes
23:02from the the old um generation saying,
23:05"Yes, we appreciate Christianity, but we
23:08still want to hold on to Yeah. uh other
23:11traditions." I think it's why you were
23:13so tenacious about working with One Hope
23:14to say, "We need scripture engagement
23:16tools."
23:17Because absolutely we believe in the
23:18power of Holy Spirit, we believe in
23:20deliverance, we believe that uh the Holy
23:22Spirit can
23:23uh immediately rem- We've had
23:26testimonies of this time and time again.
23:28But there's also the hard work of
23:29studying the word of God. Yep. And
23:32dealing with these issues like mental
23:34illness, like gender confusion, and
23:35those things. And where do we find the
23:37answers from God's word? And you've
23:39helped us as One Hope cuz you do the
23:40research. You help us understand, find
23:43out what questions to
23:44>> But what I love is we we helped you with
23:46with finding out what the
23:47questions were, but I loved how you've
23:50contextualized
23:51the biblical material for an African
23:54audience.
23:55>> We have to.
23:56>> So the materials
23:56>> Yes. it's African created and African
23:59developed, but together we've been
24:02searching the scriptures to find out
24:04>> Absolutely. We have teams right now and
24:06it it I love it. There's some some of
24:08our One Hope teams who are who are
24:10contextualizing
24:11the responses to these questions.
24:13>> the context.
24:14>> Yes. And so many wonderful testimonies
24:17we've been hearing um that are coming
24:19out of our work together that just man,
24:20they just thrill me. They Yeah. I don't
24:22know if you want I think I think about
24:24um
24:25Esther.
24:26Um um
24:27you know,
24:28we we also have refugee issues in
24:30Uganda. Uganda is very hospitable. So
24:33many of the insurgencies that happen in
24:35in Africa, those people come to Uganda.
24:38And Esther was one of those and she felt
24:40no hope, a girl in a society where girls
24:44sometimes are not recognized and uh um
24:48uh and she comes across one of the
24:49materials that uh through One Hope uh um
24:53a little booklet, Unstoppable. And she
24:55gets to realize her value in God, the
24:58fact that she can have a voice. And that
25:01radically changed Esther's view of
25:03herself Mhm. through the eyes of which
25:06God sees her.
25:06>> interesting product. Unstoppable is
25:08about
25:10you can say it's about girl power. There
25:12you go. It's about It's about saying how
25:14do you empower a young woman to know
25:17that she does have value in the
25:20in the in the eyes of God, but also that
25:22she has agency. Yes. And in some ways
25:25that might fly countercultural to even
25:28African culture, but you're saying it's
25:30a biblical principle that we want to
25:32elevate. We want those girls are loved
25:35by Jesus. They have a God mission
25:38as well. This mission is not just for
25:40the guys. It's for the girls for it to
25:43be complete. So, and Esther is just one
25:46of those. So, she went through this
25:48Unstoppable program
25:50and found Jesus.
25:52>> And today she's a leader. She has a
25:53voice. She has She has a vision for her
25:55future, for her community. That's
25:58powerful. From coming from a refugee
26:00place, I've been displaced from my place
26:02of comfort. I didn't choose to. It's
26:05just circumstances. But still, in
26:08Uganda, through the Unstoppable
26:11distribution and the love that comes
26:13from the teams that go out to all these
26:15places, there's Esther. So, she hasn't
26:17only received the word of God, but it's
26:19affected her beliefs and attitudes.
26:20>> Absolutely.
26:21>> And now it's changing her behavior.
26:24Um and it seems like those types of
26:26programs are not just something that
26:28you're dealing with in the church, but
26:29this is right now in Africa, it's a
26:31major issue is the dissonance
26:34between
26:36the
26:37more traditional African values. I mean,
26:40we've got Gen Z riots going on in many
26:43countries in Africa right now because
26:45the Gen Z now has a voice. They have the
26:47technology to communicate with each
26:48other. And there's political strife,
26:51there's cultural strife, there's social
26:53strife strife. And how are you as a
26:55pastor sort of stepping into that mess
26:57right now?
26:59That's a good That's a good question. Um
27:02I I
27:02>> I'm not going to get you in political
27:03hot water now.
27:04That's that's absolutely But I I I think
27:07one is to go back to the gospel and and
27:10preach the gospel and remind people that
27:14all of us find equal place when it comes
27:18to the gospel.
27:18>> Mhm. Yeah. Jesus
27:21uh uh um is ultimately our savior. It's
27:24not going to be the politics, it's not
27:25going to be We say that, but we also say
27:28we have a responsibility. Okay.
27:30>> on on what we need to do as individuals
27:33that are redeemed. How do I respond when
27:36I see injustice?
27:38And that's that's where it's sort of
27:39that third thing that that um you as a
27:42leader were asking us to to partner with
27:45you on. One was as we said it was to
27:47evangelize the unevangelized.
27:49Uh second thing is sort of to disciple
27:51the evangelized.
27:52>> Yes.
27:52>> But this third is to equip a generation.
27:54Absolutely. For the changes that are
27:56coming. That They're not coming, they're
27:58here right now.
27:58>> Yeah.
27:59I'm I'm That unrest that we see, there's
28:02an underlying issue. Mhm.
28:05If if if they're seeing all the wrong
28:08stuff that people are doing and they're
28:10getting away with, it brings anger. If
28:12there's
28:13They they look at their lives and
28:15they're wondering The injustice, the
28:17corruption.
28:18Are there enough opportunities for us?
28:20They get upset. When they see
28:23uh uh people totally not concerned about
28:26their needs, their voice is not being
28:28heard, they will come out, they will
28:30rise up and start to speak and
28:33demand
28:33>> in a meeting with you, um Gary, and a
28:36couple other uh African leaders. Right.
28:39And you were identifying this. This was
28:41probably 10 years ago for the first
28:42time, but we kept having that
28:43conversation, but I remember
28:45you you you saying like
28:49we as the church would say, "Hey, if if
28:53people come to church
28:55then justice is going to come. If people
28:58come to church, then corruption we're
29:0060% Christian now. Like corruption will
29:02go away." But what you were saying is,
29:04"No, it's not happening cuz we're not
29:05being intentional about it."
29:06>> Right. And what you asked for in that
29:08meeting was, "We need to change how we
29:11think about education."
29:12>> Yes. And education is equipping the next
29:15generation you were saying like our idea
29:18of education in the church was create
29:20more pastors.
29:21>> Mhm. Uh train people to plant more
29:23churches.
29:24And you've done an incredible job of
29:26that. But what you were saying is you're
29:27not seeing cultural and social
29:29transformation if we don't do Christian
29:31higher education.
29:32>> Absolutely cuz here's the question that
29:34the young people had. I am now out in
29:36the marketplace. I'm not surrounded by
29:38Christians. I'm dealing with a culture
29:41of corruption. How do I manage that? So
29:45you asked for, "Hey, don't just help us
29:47train our future ministers. Help us
29:49train our future politicians,
29:51>> There you go. business people,
29:52educators." So what did you do about it?
29:55>> It became we started to see education
29:58cuz you're you're you're young. Young
30:00people want to get an education. So it
30:02was a mission opportunity. We started to
30:04say, "How can we uh steward education
30:07for mission? Still get great academic
30:10content but add a missional element to
30:14it." And the evangelical church over the
30:16last 100 years with its growth in Africa
30:18did a great job of sort of primary
30:20education and secondary education.
30:22>> Yes. But what you identified was then we
30:24turn them over to universities and then
30:26they all get spoiled.
30:27>> and we're out of the conversation.
30:28Absolutely. So you've really been a
30:31champion to say, "No, we need we need
30:33Christian higher education if we're
30:35going to bring transformation."
30:36Absolutely. And that that's that's the
30:38that's the beauty of collaboration. And
30:40so through my innovative thinking, how
30:43do we do this?
30:44>> pioneered something together called
30:45called Missio.
30:47People can look at that in the show
30:48notes. Yes. And it was, here's what
30:50basic problem you said.
30:52Help me solve this one, right? Exactly,
30:54and you did. And I was so thankful.
30:57It was, we want accredited Yes.
31:00Christian higher education Yep. in every
31:02sphere of life, in every discipline,
31:05and we want it at an African price
31:07point.
31:07>> Yes, cuz that's the reality.
31:09Affordability is a big it's a big issue,
31:12yeah. So, it worked, right? How many
31:13students you have right now in Christian
31:15higher education?
31:16>> I think we have just over 200 now.
31:18>> Students?
31:19>> Yes. Studying? Engaged. Wow. Praise God
31:22for that.
31:22>> in a new way of doing education that
31:25is not just content-driven, but also
31:28thinks context, challenges, thinking,
31:30critical thinking, problem-solving.
31:32>> And what I love about it, the way you
31:33built it was it's church-based. Yep. And
31:35you have mentors. You you have to have a
31:38mentor. From that space.
31:40>> Yes.
31:41>> So, you have business people mentoring
31:42business students.
31:43>> Business students.
31:44>> Educators mentoring educators.
31:46>> That's powerful.
31:47>> Yeah, it's it's it's it's I think it's
31:49it's just going to keep growing. Okay.
31:51Evangelize the unevangelized.
31:53Discipling the the evangelized
31:55>> Yes.
31:56>> the next generation.
31:57>> Equipping the next generation. When you
31:59started and said we're going to be with
32:00the youngest continent,
32:03that's huge potential. It's not enough
32:04to just say we're the youngest
32:06continent. What are we doing to empower
32:10that? In fact, I don't like to use the
32:11word next generation very much, although
32:12it comes out because it's what we
32:14usually use. They are the now
32:15generation.
32:16>> Yeah, especially in Africa. They're the
32:18majority. They are the majority.
32:21This idea of young people need to wait
32:24for their time.
32:26It's it's their time now. They feel they
32:28can make a contribution.
32:30They they they are ready. So, instead of
32:33being an an African church leader who's
32:35sort of saying, man, I'm I'm going to
32:38resist this." You're saying, "No, I'm
32:39going to lean into it." And in fact, if
32:41young people want to be empowered,
32:43they're going to find a home in my
32:44church.
32:44>> It's always been like that. Gary and
32:46Marilyn, when they planted Watoto, their
32:49their inclination
32:51was very visionary. Mhm. They were
32:54thinking, "Let's get the young people."
32:56And used to make statements like we a
32:58young people's church. The idea was,
33:01"Young people, you're welcome here." You
33:03got You've given us I I think it's an
33:04incredible blueprint, not just for
33:06Watoto, not just for Kampala, not just
33:08for Uganda, not for the continent of
33:09Africa. I think it's a message for the
33:11whole church. Like let's keep our eyes
33:13focused on those who've never heard the
33:14gospel. Let's evangelize. Yes. Let's
33:17really measure whether our young people
33:18are truly discipled.
33:20>> Yes. Come alongside them.
33:21>> Yeah. But then also, let's get super
33:23intentional about Christian higher
33:24education and equipping leaders to
33:27actually move into every sphere of life
33:28in society. Chris
33:29>> It's incredible. Incredible blueprint.
33:32>> Give them And they're going to be
33:33different. They think differently.
33:35They'll stretch us. That's what they do.
33:38Yeah. But we always want to cuz you
33:40can't empower if you don't invite them
33:43Mhm. to the table.
33:45That's the first step of empowering.
33:47Yeah. You are welcome here and you can
33:49be a leader here. You can
33:52That's the first step, that invite. But
33:54most of If you look at how we set up
33:56churches in Africa, if you If you know,
33:57we usually think about big church.
34:01And if you really work hard, you may
34:04find a kids church. Okay. But the youth
34:07hang in the middle. The teenagers hang
34:09in the middle. But what you see
34:11happening in the children's church
34:13would break your heart. Oh.
34:15And so,
34:17Gary was actually countercultural.
34:19>> more like babysitting or
34:20>> Yes, it was really the children are
34:23are very valuable. Let's just take care
34:25of them.
34:25>> Go play in the yard or whatever.
34:26>> Yes. And Gary really was
34:29countercultural. And he said, "We are
34:31young people and children have a place
34:34here and we're going to do everything to
34:36disciple and mentor them." They started
34:39to laugh at us as a church. We say, "Oh,
34:41that's a young people's church. That's
34:43where we take our children. That's where
34:44we take our teenagers." They didn't
34:47realize So he he decided to rename the
34:49church. Yeah, that's who we are. We're
34:51going to own it. We're going to own it.
34:52And those young children and teenagers
34:55today are significant leaders and their
34:59church is Watoto. Well, I'm beautiful.
35:01And we are committed to continue
35:03reaching young people, creating young
35:05space. Now, young people need older
35:07people. They need dads. They need moms.
35:09And so it's not just, "Okay, we're young
35:11people's church. If you're older, go."
35:12We are an intergenerational church. So
35:14so as a missiologist, I'm hearing this
35:15conversation. I'm just saying, "What a
35:17strategic moment for Africa."
35:19And I love this sort of blueprint, this
35:21vision you have for long-term, what we
35:24just laid out. Uh but for those of us
35:27that are listening to say, "Man, we want
35:28to invest in Africa. We want to do
35:31something short-term." Um
35:33we're talking about an incredible
35:34opportunity that that we have
35:36right now to do something. There's a
35:38great opportunity to invest
35:40um through One Hope in affecting the
35:44destiny of Africa by reaching the youth
35:47and children. Rob, I'm one of those.
35:50Yeah.
35:52And I will stand. I'm so glad that uh
35:55someone invested then. Mhm. Uh um and
35:58came and
35:59Gary and Marilyn and did a drama in in
36:04in Watoto church and I gave my heart to
36:05Jesus.
36:07And I look back almost 30 years and I'm
36:10so thankful to God for where I am at
36:13today.
36:14I look at the young people in Africa. I
36:16look at those children as I drive to
36:19work and they're on the side of the
36:20streets. They're with their mom and um
36:23not knowing whether they're going to go
36:24to school and some of them maybe going
36:26to school. You just don't know where
36:28they've been.
36:29That is the hope Mhm.
36:32for Africa.
36:34If we only can invest and ensure that
36:38they don't only get to know Jesus, but
36:40are grounded and are empowered, are
36:44re-equipped in a way that is relevant to
36:47their generation. Mhm. It's not just
36:50going to be affecting the young people,
36:52a whole continent will be transformed,
36:54but I also think about how God can use
36:56those young people for his global
36:58mission.
36:58>> Well, I I think our conversation is so
37:00timely for me because I didn't know you
37:02were actually going to be here in
37:03Chicago for these meetings that we're at
37:05together, but I just found out in just a
37:07couple days before I knew that you were
37:10going to be here and we were already
37:11setting up the podcast. Someone told me,
37:12they said, "Hey, we just had a partner
37:14step forward
37:16and they've designated a special gift,
37:17which I just told you right before we
37:19started." A million dollars. That's That
37:21will go so far.
37:23>> Yeah, it's it's really incredible.
37:25They're They've They've challenged us
37:27and they said, "Look, the last 60 days
37:29of 2025,
37:31I want to I want to I've heard about
37:32this story that's going on in Africa,
37:33the response, the stories." There's an
37:36openness, yeah. And And so he said,
37:38"I'll I'll match a million dollars if
37:40you can raise a million dollars." So
37:42normally, as you know with our work, a
37:44million dollars reaches 3 million young
37:46people in these evangelism,
37:47discipleship, and leadership programs.
37:49But now, he's going to match that so it
37:51can be Six million children, six million
37:55leaders, six million lives, six million
37:58families. Yeah. And And And And sorry,
38:00Julius, it's not all for Uganda. Oh,
38:03it's not for Uganda. It's for the
38:04continent. I actually think about the
38:06lovely continent of
38:07Africa, yeah.
38:09I'm teasing you. I mean, you you're
38:10moving north, right?
38:11>> Yes, we are.
38:12>> And so
38:13So what incredible opportunity. So if
38:15you If anybody wants to invest in just
38:17the story of Africa right now, the
38:18development of the church there, the
38:20power to reach those who've never heard,
38:23the ability to build discipleship deep
38:25into the African church and to equip
38:26these new next generation leaders.
38:29You can participate by by doing that.
38:31The show notes will tell you how to how
38:32to be involved. So, Julius, I love you
38:34so much.
38:36The story of this young man named Malik
38:39Malik, another young young person. You
38:42know, when I was talking about
38:44I see them every day on the side of the
38:46streets and some having no chance. Malik
38:48is one of those um who I mean
38:52street kid
38:54doesn't know much and just hanging out
38:56and gets to encounter one of the
38:57programs
38:59through One Hope and and he gets to
39:02interact with the material from a Muslim
39:03background. Wow. So, he gets to interact
39:07with the material from One Hope and he
39:08gets to discover I think he's 10 years
39:10old, you said? Yes, there's a friend who
39:12loves me, Jesus. And the way you have
39:15packaged the material to be
39:16child-friendly, Yeah. to bring the Bible
39:19so easy for a child to understand even
39:21from a Muslim background, is amazing.
39:23>> And very visual. That was Malik's Wow.
39:26turning point. Wow. And he got
39:28inquisitive, he got to know him, he made
39:29a little group. You're doing a lot of
39:31things as One Hope. Catalize clubs and
39:33little Yeah, there's all these
39:35>> Yeah, he got into the Catalize club,
39:36that's right. And there you go, Malik's
39:38life completely changed.
39:39>> Wow. And he's he's off the streets now?
39:41>> Off the streets,
39:44on a path
39:45for his destiny. That's what a ffective
39:47destiny looks like. Let's keep doing it.
39:49Yes. I love you, my brother. That's why
39:51the investment will work.
39:53Every dollar will go to affect the
39:55destiny of not just now it was three
39:58children, but if it's matched, it's
40:00going to be six children. Well, you're
40:01you're thinking One Hope, but we like to
40:03say at One Hope, and by the way, he's
40:05he's he's part of my CTC, he's part of
40:07the apostolic leadership team that
40:09oversees. So, in some ways I'm talking
40:10to one of my bosses here today on that
40:13helps really seriously guide guide our
40:15ministry and our and around the world.
40:17So, thank you for that, Julius, for your
40:18leadership. It's and your passion to for
40:21this next generation is really, really
40:23incredible. But, we like to say One
40:25Hope, people hear about these millions
40:26of kids that are being reached and they
40:28say, "Oh, I can't believe you can reach
40:30that." And they say that you can reach.
40:32And I just always just cringe when I
40:34hear you can reach because I like to say
40:37our missiology is a local church
40:38ecclesiology.
40:40All we do is serve churches like you.
40:43And it's your programs, it's your work,
40:45it's your people.
40:46And and we get to serve this incredible
40:49leader like Julius and so many others
40:51around the world. Thank you for Watoto
40:52and our partnership and all you're
40:53doing. And
40:55so great to always talk to you. Thank
40:57you. Thank you, Rob.
40:58>> Love you. Love you, too.
41:01Hey friends, as many of you know, I have
41:03the privilege of leading One Hope, a
41:05ministry committed to sharing God's word
41:07with children and youth around the
41:09world. And right now, through December
41:1131st, we have an incredible opportunity
41:15to make an eternal impact. And I want to
41:17invite you, my Missional Leadership
41:19Podcast audience, to be part of it. By
41:22God's grace, every dollar we receive
41:24normally reaches three young people in
41:26Africa with scripture.
41:28But, thanks to a generous $1 matching
41:31gift, every dollar you give by year's
41:34end will be doubled, meaning your gift
41:37will help reach six young people with
41:39the good news of Jesus. This is the
41:41moment we can affect destiny for Africa.
41:44It's about reaching the next generation
41:46with the gospel, building lasting
41:48discipleship through local churches, and
41:51developing young Africans to lead the
41:52church, transform their communities, and
41:55become missionaries to the world. Africa
41:58is the youngest continent and the
41:59fastest growing center of Christianity.
42:01This is Africa's moment. And your gift,
42:04doubled through the match, will go twice
42:06as far to empower millions of young
42:08people to find their identity in Christ
42:11and step into their calling. So, would
42:13you stand with us to help shape the next
42:1550 years of global Christianity? Visit
42:18onehope.net to give today.

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