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ADHD: Cosa succede se lo Diagnostichi "tardi"? ! La Storia di Alfredo — Transcript

by Dott. Valerio Rosso · 6,388 words · 974 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00So, um, why is Alfredo here? Well,
0:05first of all, as you can see, he’s
0:07the creator of the t-shirt I wear every
0:09now and then. It’s his idea. What’s
0:14the company called, damn, I can never
0:16remember the, let's say, the brand.
0:18>> And the collective is this one, Punkis
0:19Dead.
0:20>> Punk's Dead. There, collective. So look
0:22it up on Instagram. This stuff is
0:24interesting. I also have a proud copy
0:26of this shirt that I wore when William
0:28was born in the hospital, you know, I
0:30wore it, so yeah, yeah. The day he was
0:32born I was really happy. Why is Alfredo
0:35here? He is here because he is an
0:38example, one of the many examples of
0:40people who were diagnosed with ADHD in
0:43adulthood, very much in adulthood, we
0:45could say,
0:47>> excessively adult,
0:49>> too much so.
0:50>> Worse than me, huh, it went worse for
0:52>> You. At what age?
0:53>> 40 years old. Actually, I went to look
0:58for the person who had to, well, who
1:01would give me a hand in this sense.
1:06Those were different times, so then I
1:08also asked other professionals even
1:10before, let’s say, I started to
1:12specialize, so I had various meetings
1:14with various professionals. In your
1:18case, well, was it a thing, how did you
1:20get the urge to get checked out from
1:22this point of view? Welcome to
1:26Neurodiversi. I am Dr. Valerio Rosso
1:29>> and I am Dr. Filippo Magini.
1:31>> We are two neurodivergent psychiatrists
1:32talking to you about the world of
1:34neurodiversity.
1:35>> We remind you that this podcast is
1:37purely for informational purposes and
1:38does not in any way replace the opinion
1:40of a specialist. If you wish to receive
1:43information on diagnostic evaluations,
1:45or psychoeducation paths carried out by
1:47us or by people on our team, you can
1:49find more information in the
1:50description. Also, if you are
1:52interested in joining our community for
1:54neurodivergent people, you can find the
1:56link in the description as well. It’s
2:01a strange and quite long journey, but
2:03I’ll try to summarize it for you.
2:06Actually, you can take as long as you
2:08want, eh.
2:08>> Ok, ok, ok. No problem. Um, it all
2:11started with my son, from the
2:13relationship with my son, because my
2:16son, at the end of his junior year,
2:18after yet another academic
2:20disappointment due to some failures, uh
2:22, on his own initiative, expressed to
2:25us the doubt of having a learning
2:27disorder. Uh, so we started a private
2:30diagnosis process and the final outcome
2:32of this process was that he suffered
2:35from...suffered, maybe that’s the
2:37wrong word, that he had ADHD.
2:39>> Yes. and that he was dysgraphic. Uh,
2:44for me, at that time when we were all
2:46very focused on school, uh, I gave more
2:48weight to the issue of the learning
2:51disorder rather than to
2:53>> let's say the SLD.
2:54>> Exactly. But did you already know what
2:56ADHD was back then?
2:57>> No, no. Just a very superficial concept
3:01of inattention, kids who never sit
3:03still, all those things, quite basic,
3:06mundane concepts that exist, okay,
3:09>> about ADHD. Um, so we focused on that,
3:12also to help him with his studies, to
3:15help him finish his schooling. Eh,
3:18after graduation, however, I started to
3:20feel that I wasn't able to interact and
3:22connect with my son the way I would
3:24have liked to as a parent, which is
3:26something I had always resolved to do
3:29since I decided to become a father:
3:31that is, to be in some way, I won't say
3:33better, but different from how the
3:35relationship between my father and me
3:37was. Yet I always encountered a barrier
3:41, there was something that made me feel
3:43like a piece was missing, something,
3:44even though we have a wonderful
3:46relationship and talk about everything.
3:49So I went back to that topic, that
3:51diagnosis; I went back to reread it and
3:53focused more on ADHD. Eh, I started
3:58doing some completely amateur research
4:00on what it was and I started to
4:02recognize myself in a lot of ADHD
4:05traits, because I contacted the
4:09psychologist who had diagnosed my son,
4:11who, obviously, told me: "I cannot take
4:13you on as a patient."
4:14>> Yes, do the same, the same path with
4:16you, let's say.
4:17>> He says, "But before relying on another
4:19professional, I suggest you listen to a
4:21podcast
4:23>> m
4:23>> which was Avanti Veloce by Giampiero
4:24Casten."
4:25>> Ah. Great, great Giampiero. You are
4:29also in an episode of Avanti Veloce.
4:31>> Yes, that's true.
4:32>> We were interviewed and in fact, I
4:33discovered your existence from there.
4:36Um, it was a huge emotional immersion
4:38because it's a journey I took alone,
4:41without sharing it with my family. I
4:44would listen to the podcast when I left
4:46work before going home, until, when I
4:48finished, I had the strength to talk
4:50about it with my wife. I had her listen
4:53to it too, and she, too, while
4:55listening, found things of mine in that
4:57podcast. So she gave me the push and
5:00told me, "Go, get the diagnosis." And
5:04so it happened, and at the dawn of my
5:0654th year, a year ago, I got the
5:08diagnosis and
5:09>> did you get a diagnosis in a public
5:11facility? Did it go well for you? I
5:12hope
5:12>> absolutely, absolutely. This also, eh,
5:15made me very happy to discover that
5:17there is a network, there is an ADHD
5:19family association.
5:21>> Yes. who reassured me, saying "Go to
5:23the public system with peace of mind
5:25because where you are there's an
5:27excellent facility, there are trained
5:29professionals, and I must say with
5:30pleasure
5:31>> Did you have a good experience?"
5:32>> I had a good experience.
5:33>> Excellent. Um what did the diagnostic
5:40process change, in terms of your
5:43perspective? Because I sometimes say
5:46that ADHD has a characteristic where,
5:48when it's diagnosed, it's a bit like
5:51turning on a light, right, in a dark
5:53room
5:55>> and so one could almost say that ADHD
5:58therapy starts the moment a person is
6:00evaluated. Eh, did it have that effect
6:03on you?
6:03>> Absolutely. The diagnosis was a big
6:05bang for me. Exactly that was the
6:08effect it had on me, because it led me
6:11to at least give a name to a feeling.
6:15What you say is true, that is, turning
6:17on the light. Over the years, I had
6:20realized there was a gigantic elephant
6:22in the room and I had learned to walk
6:25around it, trying not to bump into it,
6:27not to get hurt, not to run headfirst
6:29into it. Eh, but I didn't know what it
6:32was, I didn't have a name to give it.
6:35The moment I got the diagnosis, I had a
6:38name, I had answers and a whole series
6:40of reactions and reverse engineering of
6:43my entire life; to understand the
6:45reason for certain things, the reason
6:47for certain choices, why some
6:49friendships had gone wrong, let's say,
6:52or the reason why I had a failure at
6:54the university level or other things.
6:59Can I ask you a little more about your
7:01past, within the limits of what you
7:02want to share, of course? I mean, what
7:06kind of child was Alfredo?
7:09>> Well, that's another thing that struck
7:11me a lot, because when I started the
7:13diagnostic process I had to make an
7:14effort, um, to remember what Alfredo
7:16was like as a child, which is something
7:19that, for example, you don't do when
7:20you get diagnosed in adolescence,
7:22because for example with my son, I had
7:24a separate interview with the staff
7:26where they asked me what my son was
7:28like when he was little, because I
7:30remembered it well. I don't have my dad
7:32anymore, my mom is in a care facility,
7:34so and she's at an age where it's
7:35difficult for her to tell me what I was
7:37like as a child. So I had to make an
7:39effort on myself to remember and I
7:41realized that in some way I had
7:42idealized myself,
7:44>> that is, I wasn't how I thought I
7:46remembered being, how I remember and
7:50>> and I was Restless, but not so much in
7:56terms of physical mobility, like
7:57climbing on furniture or constantly
8:00running around. Yes, I would spend
8:02entire afternoons playing soccer, like
8:04all children and all kids do, but it
8:06was more of a mental restlessness,
8:08meaning being always "on," always in
8:10motion, having to always be doing
8:12something, having to always be thinking
8:14about something, even if it meant
8:16building a Lego robot for 8 hours
8:18straight; I always had to be doing
8:20something. I re-evaluated this, I
8:23reconstructed it thanks to the
8:25diagnosis, and from then on, I looked
8:27back at everything I’ve done in my
8:29life and realized that, for most of my
8:32life, I lived carried by the current;
8:34and this current eventually had a name,
8:36it was ADHD. In emotions, in sensations
8:44, in fulfillment sought in every
8:46direction possible and imaginable. But
8:48things have changed over the years.
8:51What I mean is, um, Alfredo as a child
8:54was different from Alfredo as a
8:56teenager, um, different from Alfredo as
8:58, let's say, a young adult, then an
9:00adult. Do you think there have been
9:03changes?
9:04>> Um, yes.
9:06>> The interface with the environment,
9:07right, that’s what I’m thinking.
9:09>> It was probably what made me change so
9:11much, and I’m processing it at this
9:13very moment because it was a question I
9:15had never asked myself. I think it was
9:17the moment I gained my freedom and
9:19independence. Mhm.
9:21>> I mean, as long as I was a child or
9:24teenager, I was limited by my
9:26upbringing, the enclosure I was born
9:29and raised in, so that meant family,
9:31school, my parents 'expectations, the
9:34feedback the environment gives you. I
9:39was certainly more controlled, more
9:41quiet. The moment I gained my
9:43independence, my freedom to make
9:45choices, even wrong ones, I changed a
9:48lot; a bit more of a rebellious, more
9:50transgressive instinct came out. More
9:52rebellious, yes, transgressive, exactly
9:54. So, many things that perhaps a
9:57neurotypical person does in their
9:59teenage years, the stupid stuff
10:01teenagers do, I did more of in my
10:03adulthood. Mhm, that’s interesting.
10:08So, obviously, some of you might
10:10recognize Alfredo because, well, you
10:12are a fairly well-known DJ in the
10:15Genoese scene, you deal with 80s music,
10:17and, well, we share this passion—a
10:20bit of everything, really—we are
10:22children of the 80s.
10:25>> Focus, exactly, we are definitely
10:27children of the 80s. Um, so, for
10:29example, what role has music played in
10:33your life? Because in my case, it was a
10:36detonation there too, right? E
10:38>> Fundamental, fundamental.
10:39>> It had the characteristic of an
10:41interest that was, how should I say,
10:43exclusive, all-consuming. Did you have
10:45this thing?
10:45>> Absolutely, yes. It’s something that
10:48was in my life even before I could read
10:51or write. My mom, for example, one of
10:54the few memories I have, she tells me I
10:56was the one who always chose the music
10:58at home. There was that classic Geloso
11:01record player, the red one, and I
11:04couldn't read yet, but I already
11:06recognized all the 45s by their covers.
11:08I had my favorites and the classic ADHD
11:11thing, which I discovered: the same
11:14song on repeat until exhaustion. And so
11:18from there, then in adolescence, when I
11:21was struck by this figure of the DJ...
11:24And then those were times when music—
11:26I don't want to say it had a different
11:29value, but things have changed a lot in
11:32the way, let's face it, a bit.
11:35>> the way we consume music has changed a
11:37lot. Back then it was a bit more, shall
11:41we say, pioneering; I mean, we traded
11:43tapes, we swapped feedback, it was the
11:45very concept of going to a place to
11:47listen to music, right? So it was more
11:50ritualized too, yeah, if you will. The
11:52world of clubs itself was the example
11:54of that, because there was the place
11:55you went to hear that music, the place
11:57you went to hear that music, and it was
11:59the DJ who gave the place its identity.
12:02>> Because you went there because that DJ
12:04had that certain music selection; you
12:06didn't just go to a random club because
12:08it was trendy, as unfortunately happens
12:09now. The other day I did a podcast with
12:14Paolo, the one from Luca e Paolo, and
12:17we remembered Nessun Dorma. Yes, I
12:19directed a couple of their shows, the
12:21musical direction, back when they were
12:23at the start of their career. So you
12:25knew the legendary Ruffus.
12:27>> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Poor guy, he
12:30passed away too soon. And we used to
12:33play there often, with the Cavalli
12:34Marci, too, who were there as well, I
12:36remember. And we’re still friends
12:38with Roberta, we have many friends in
12:41common; you and I probably crossed
12:43paths
12:44>> thousands of times between Qualud,
12:46Nessun Dorma, and all the other places
12:48in the alleys.
12:50>> Um, what in your opinion had the most
12:53negative impact, in quotation marks, on
12:56your life? ADHD, for example, or I
12:58don't know, school? Yes, one of the
13:01biggest regrets I have is that—school
13:04, the fact that I wasn't able to
13:06complete my university degree. Although
13:10, I have no proof of this, but I don't
13:12think it would have changed the course
13:14of my life or where I ended up all that
13:17much. It actually might have, I have no
13:20way of knowing; it’s remained a
13:22personal regret of mine. I experienced
13:24it as a failure, and it’s something I
13:27struggle to deal with, failure, because
13:29luckily I’ve had very few in my life,
13:32at least so far, knock on iron, wood,
13:35anything; but, um, I always have a hard
13:37time processing failures, so they’re
13:40things that stay with me, they really
13:42work away at me inside. Yes, think
13:46about it, I have the same experience,
13:49because I think I graduated practically
13:52by pure luck, in the sense that music
13:55was consuming me to a certain extent,
13:58very wrong relationships, I was
14:00violently distracted from my university
14:03path. Then a series of of situations
14:09and people eventually helped me wrap
14:11this this matter up, but I won’t deny
14:14it was pure luck, I don’t believe, I
14:16never take any kind. Then for what
14:20happened after, I take some credit, but
14:23regarding the fact of graduating, I
14:25realize it was a pure twist of fate. a
14:29sliding door that could every now and
14:31then I wonder if it was a good thing or
14:34not that I graduated, but I guess so.
14:37>> But look, um, the regret I have, for
14:39example, regarding music
14:41>> Yes,
14:41>> right? In the sense that every now and
14:44then I ask myself, I wonder if I’m
14:46not doing everything I’m doing just
14:48to get to a point where I can make
14:50music.
14:51>> Eh, I can say I’m pursuing the same
14:54path and I say it like this now. I’m
14:56an entrepreneur to pay the mortgage.
14:58>> Exactly.
14:59>> And I’m a DJ to live.
15:01>> Okay. live in the most extended sense
15:03of the term, meaning
15:05>> Yes, I believe this is an experience
15:07for many ADHD people, that is, having
15:09this sort of split where there’s a
15:12secret part, but in your case not even
15:14that much, eh; but perhaps in mine too,
15:17because, well, here at home there are
15:19probably more guitars than medical
15:22books, but there’s really this split
15:24between the fact of having a, let’s
15:26call it a regret, a painful look back
15:29at something.
15:30>> that we should still be able to realize
15:32.
15:33>> Yes, there are a couple of trains I, I
15:36let pass by for music; trains that
15:39concerned music and that probably would
15:42have led my life to truly living off
15:45music. and both I let go for studies
15:49that I didn’t complete, so this
15:51became even more of an aggravating
15:53factor to what we were saying and for
15:56relationships that didn’t continue
15:58afterward, basically. I stayed in Genoa
16:02instead of going to work once in Milan
16:04and once in Miami for love and for
16:06studies, and I didn't see either one
16:08through, so my regret is paradoxically
16:10even stronger.
16:13>> On the other hand, you've become a dad,
16:15and that’s a very beautiful thing
16:17that is very demanding, very beautiful,
16:20gigantic. I'm starting to understand,
16:23to suspect. I envy you a lot. I envy
16:26you a lot because you’re living
16:27through a beautiful phase that I’m
16:28already starting to miss.
16:30>> Really. Everyone says that. I lived the
16:32first few months traumatically, I
16:35confess. Probably, I don't know if that
16:38happened to you because, well, our baby
16:40didn't sleep the first few months, so
16:43we were a little overwhelmed, but I
16:45realize, I'm starting to understand
16:47what it means and I'm worrying about
16:49being able to enjoy this period.
16:52>> Yes, yes. If I may give you one piece
16:55of advice, it’s that even if you’re
16:57falling over from lack of sleep because
16:59you’ll be living a crazy life, enjoy
17:01every second, every millimeter of this
17:03moment, because no one can give it back
17:05to you and it’s beautiful, it’s
17:06something you carry with you your whole
17:08life. Look, I will do that, I will take
17:13your advice literally. I was wondering
17:16how being a dad changed your life, and
17:19did it also influence these
17:21manifestations, let's call them, of
17:24neurodiversity that you had? Did it get
17:27you back on track? Because I see—I
17:29mean, some of my off-kilter aspects
17:31have incredibly straightened themselves
17:34out in these last 6 months. I mean, I
17:38realize I’m less impulsive, more
17:40thoughtful, somehow more practical,
17:42I’d say. Oh yes, it definitely helped
17:46me a lot, also because, as you were
17:49saying, the first months of the baby's
17:51life, then luckily—in a manner of
17:53speaking—the baby is more devoted to
17:56the mom during that period. I mean, I'm
17:58not saying the dad couldn't just not be
18:00there, but almost—the one who gives
18:02the imprinting to the child in this,
18:03I'm afraid so. I have that suspicion
18:05too, because the way the baby looks at
18:06the mom, they don't look at you.
18:08>> There’s no comparison, there’s no
18:08comparison. There absolutely isn't. Eh,
18:10dad, in my opinion, is needed more
18:12later on.
18:13>> And having said that, I carry with me,
18:15forever, that point I was making
18:16earlier about being carried by the
18:18current, the remorse of having been a
18:20dad who wasn't very present in the
18:22first few months of my son's life,
18:24precisely because it was a bad time
18:26where I went wherever the wind, the
18:28current, took me. Eh, but it helped me
18:31a lot because it gave me a sense of
18:34responsibility. It has always been my
18:38family, and especially my son; for me,
18:40he was the anchor that brought me back,
18:42that weight, the ballast that kept me
18:45grounded and stopped me from doing
18:47something really stupid. I might have
18:49done something stupid, but always
18:51within a certain limit,
18:52>> within a tighter perimeter. Exactly.
18:55>> Exactly. The fact of having, I mean, of
18:58dedicating your existence to another
19:00creature and not just thinking about
19:02yourself, helped me a lot because it
19:04kept me grounded in reality, it kept me
19:06to my responsibilities, it kept me to
19:08my duties toward a creature who didn't
19:11ask to be brought into this world, for
19:13whom I absolutely had duties. I,
19:19studying myself, studying ADHD, I
19:21realized that ADHD often leads you to
19:23have selfish behaviors as well. That's
19:27true. And having another focus that
19:32isn't always me, me, me, me, me, me, me
19:35helped me a lot to get back on track in
19:38my life and to keep everything together
19:40so much.
19:42>> It's true, look. And what you're saying
19:44is very honest and it's a classic that
19:47I see in myself, I see it in the people
19:50I follow. Um, not everyone has the
19:53lucidity and mental clarity to admit it
19:56, but there are negative aspects,
19:58including, let's say, being
20:00self-centered at times at the expense
20:03of everything and everyone. Um, and
20:07it's right to say that, too, in short.
20:11Yeah, but that's why I told you it was
20:13a big bang for me, because it also
20:15helped me come to terms with many
20:17things about myself that I didn't like,
20:19meaning to look back and, not to
20:21justify, but to explain certain
20:22behaviors. I mean, I realized that at
20:26certain times in my life I acted like
20:27an [ __ ], but I'm not an [ __ ]. It
20:31was the ADHD in some way influencing a
20:34certain type of choice or behavior that
20:37I couldn't explain before. Mm-hmm.
20:40>> ADHD explained why to me. Why, why I'm
20:44built this way, which doesn't mean "who
20:46cares, take me as I am." On the
20:48contrary, I work every day to be a
20:50better person in every sense, but it
20:52also helped me shed a bit of the stigma
20:55, the guilt, that perpetual sense of
20:57inadequacy I've had since I was born,
21:00since I've been aware of it. But this
21:02helped me explain all these things.
21:04>> Yes, it's what we were saying before we
21:06started recording, right? that I'm
21:08making a habit of it, recording a video
21:10, I recorded a video on the question,
21:12does evil exist, right? Uh, that's why
21:16I say that I don't deny there are
21:18people who do reprehensible, dramatic,
21:20terrible things, et cetera, even just
21:22plain bad things, not even necessarily
21:25too bad. But I don't believe that
21:30labeling people as bad or [ __ ] is,
21:33m, useful from a truly evolutionary or
21:35social standpoint; I mean, nobody
21:38denies there are people who do bad
21:40things, but let's say that when a
21:43person becomes aware of the context in
21:45which all this happened, including the
21:48psychic one, let's call it, of mental
21:51functioning, psychopathological,
21:53everything changes. There's the
21:56possibility of moving past judgment,
21:58something we mental health
21:59professionals should do, and enter the
22:01field of helping, always and anyway,
22:02right? In fact, in Italy, despite
22:05everything, right, institutions,
22:07including the heaviest one, which is
22:10prison, still have a rehabilitative
22:12streak, right? If we decide that people
22:15are metaphysically bad, then at that
22:17point we can decide to, no, leave it at
22:19that and say that prison is simply
22:21revenge, let's call it that, for a
22:23negative act. Then you go for the death
22:25penalty, if
22:26>> Exactly. The drift can be unexpected.
22:30Um, very, very interesting. So, one
22:34thing I notice in ADHD people is a
22:37tendency toward entrepreneurship, that
22:40is, in the end, you don't fit into,
22:43let's say, following other people's
22:46rules. You don't fit into having a boss
22:50; maybe you can have a nice work group,
22:52you can have partners, but the idea
22:54that someone tells you "you must," well
22:56, that becomes a bit, no. I believe
23:00your work choices have also followed
23:02suit, as you age, starting to pay a lot
23:04for the stress of being an entrepreneur
23:06; sometimes I say: "No, I'd like to be
23:08a caretaker at a country school," I
23:10mean.
23:11>> But are you really sure? "I sometimes
23:13>> Yes, no, but I say that in those
23:15moments of maybe desperation, of
23:17tiredness. Exactly. But no, anyway I
23:21have noticed in myself and in many
23:23other ADHD people too—because now
23:25obviously you start hanging out with
23:27them, support groups, you recognize
23:29yourself, you talk, you compare notes
23:31and—an aptitude for leadership, flair
23:36, inventiveness, entrepreneurial spirit
23:38, seeking to innovate new things,
23:40anyway the fact of always being...
23:43>> a machine always on, moving. I'll soon
23:46be done reading a book that is the
23:48autobiography of Giacomo Maiolini, the
23:49founder of Time Records.
23:51>> Oh, yeah.
23:52>> It's called" Never Had Time "and the
23:55title alone is emblematic, I recommend
23:57it to you because in my opinion Giacomo
23:59has ADHD, he is an ADHD person. I
24:01don’t know him personally, but this
24:03book explains a lot about him and
24:05there’s this quality of always being
24:06in motion, never stopping to dwell on
24:08one’s own successes because there’s
24:10something else to do right after.
24:12>> What's next? What's next? Exactly.
24:14That’s the question. Exactly. Exactly
24:16. Yes. Um, on the other hand, in this
24:20period, beyond this feeling that I also
24:22have, um, of always having to ask
24:24myself what comes next—and being an
24:27entrepreneur allows you to ground all
24:29this great energy—I realize that the
24:32need, in my case (as someone who spent
24:34almost 20 years in the National Health
24:37Service, now I’m there much less, I
24:39mean, I work few hours, I try to still
24:41contribute a little, more for principle
24:44than anything else), but um, the idea
24:47is to build an environment tailored to
24:50me. In the end, I need to have
24:53environmental variables that I’ve
24:55established myself, because it’s not
24:58selfishness, it’s basically a
25:00physical necessity, a physical need.
25:04Having an environment tailored to you,
25:06in my opinion, especially for us with
25:08ADHD, is fundamental.
25:09>> I mean, I know this room is dark, I
25:11know it’s strange, I know. In fact, I
25:13was looking at it and perfectly
25:14understood the concept. If you go into
25:16my office, it’s the same. I have
25:18everything in its place, in order;
25:20maybe I’m messy and disorganized in
25:22everything else in life, but not in
25:23that. And my wife looks at me because
25:26of a painting or because I have to hang
25:29a new autographed vinyl an artist gave
25:31me, and she says," No, that's enough,
25:33okay, that's fine, "and I say," No,
25:36>> I get that you're neurodivergent, but
25:38enough, take those vinyls down. "
25:39Saintly woman, saintly woman. Think
25:41about living at home with two guys with
25:43ADHD.
25:45>> Well, yeah, I mean, a saint, it’s
25:47quite a challenge, eh, we send a hug to
25:49Alfredo’s wife. So strong. Actually,
25:53um, I wanted to ask your opinion on
25:56something that is very interesting to
25:59me. I’ll try to summarize it for you.
26:03In this historical period, we have
26:05technologies, right, artificial
26:08intelligence, which is perfection as
26:11far as adhering to a standard is
26:13concerned, right? You know that by now,
26:17quality—one of the definitions of
26:19quality—is the ability to adhere to a
26:21standard. Machines do this perfectly
26:24now. I believe that at this historical
26:28moment, no one can think of prospering,
26:30or even having an entrepreneurial
26:31business, by competing, by entering
26:33into competition with something that is
26:35now an asset available to everyone,
26:37right? Adhering to a standard. I mean,
26:41if I have to write a reply email to, I
26:43don't know, a phone provider,
26:45artificial intelligence does it
26:47perfectly. On the other hand, there's
26:52Alex Karp, the CEO of Palantir, who
26:54said that the future of work will be in
26:57the hands of those who use their hands,
27:00so really high-level craftsmen, let's
27:02call them artists, I'm almost tempted
27:05to say, because there will also be
27:07robots competing in this field and
27:10neurodivergent people, precisely
27:12because the ability to diverge from the
27:15norm, the possibility, to put it like
27:17in Matrix, of being an anomaly will be
27:21the last frontier of creativity. Do you
27:24think this is a sensible question? I'm
27:27asking a few people because it's a
27:28topic that interests me, and soon I'll
27:30be speaking at a huge conference of
27:32digital entrepreneurs, right? Not only
27:35that, differently. Yeah, we'll really
27:37do it differently there. And, by the
27:40way, guys, Bologna, November 28th,
27:42remember that, there are still a few
27:44tickets left, sign up, buy them, do it,
27:46etc. No, actually, I'm going to
27:47Marketers where there are digital
27:49entrepreneurs and where I will talk
27:51about the concept, not so much, let's
27:53call it pathological, but really about
27:55defending our divergences from the norm
27:57and making sure they truly become
27:59strengths, right? Not just fragilities,
28:02but things that can become strengths. I
28:04think this entrepreneur is right,
28:07>> in my opinion, yes, in my opinion, yes.
28:08I've been thinking a bit in general
28:11about artificial intelligence, also
28:13thinking about my son's future career
28:15in this regard. In fact, the only piece
28:19of advice I allowed myself to give him
28:21is to develop a skill in anything, but
28:23a skill that would ensure he's not just
28:25a number in a company, but an added
28:27value for that company that's hard to
28:29sacrifice or even worth investing in.
28:33And I thought, sorry, and then I'll let
28:36you go, I thought that another thing—
28:39this is true, but the last perhaps the
28:42last frontier of being indispensable is
28:45having a personal brand that people
28:47cannot give up, right? Let me give you
28:52an example: in a sea of psychologists
28:53and psychiatrists where we will then be
28:55in competition with artificial
28:56intelligence—which, let's be clear,
28:58let's not kid ourselves, they work
28:59amazingly well, right? God, faster than
29:03us.
29:03>> Exactly. I mean, in the sense that we
29:06are now so close to having
29:07psychotherapy done by artificial
29:09intelligence, it's incredible, but what
29:11will continue to matter, perhaps, will
29:13be the fact of having our own personal
29:15brand, right? I know him, because I see
29:20him, I like his character, I like how
29:22he is and I hope he's exactly the same
29:28in person as he is online. Because then
29:30, right, there's also this doubt; I
29:32mean, in the end, it might be what
29:33saves us a little bit, being almost, if
29:35you'll excuse me, a character, right? I
29:37mean, personal brand means that.
29:40>> Yeah, yeah. Also consider that
29:41artificial intelligence has reached a
29:43point where, for example, there are
29:44influencers now who don't exist, who
29:46have millions of followers and don't
29:48exist because they're completely
29:49manufactured with avatars, videos
29:51pre-packaged by AI, content uploaded
29:52into them, so there are models who
29:54don't exist and have millions of photos
29:56. The other day, the author of a famous
29:58novel in France, I don't know if you
30:01saw the news, someone from Haiti who
30:03then naturalized in France, won the
30:05prize, I don't know, like the French
30:08version of the Strega Prize. A few
30:11weeks later he said, guys, just so you
30:13know, even provocatively, he said this
30:15book and the whole series of poems in
30:16the appendix were largely made with
30:18artificial intelligence. Boom! A huge
30:22mess broke out, because it's like
30:24winning the Strega Prize, right? And in
30:27some way, people said," Oh, I don't
30:30like it anymore. "So if it was made by
30:33AI, it's a bit like my wife says when
30:35you have a Louis Vuitton bag, right? I
30:37mean, if it's real, it's one thing, but
30:39if you know it's not real, damn, it
30:40doesn't, no, it doesn't have the same
30:42value.
30:43>> No. And you, no. Sorry, I interrupted
30:45you.
30:46>> No, so I was saying, in my opinion, it
30:48will be very important to be on the
30:50side of those who create, develop, and
30:53implement artificial intelligence,
30:55because
30:58>> 97%of the rest of the world will use it
30:59, and they will use it more and more,
31:01because I myself realize that from an
31:03evening pastime of asking a couple of
31:05questions to see what it would answer,
31:07it's becoming a tool—I won't say
31:08essential, but very important. Your
31:11secretary, your assistant that does in
31:1310 seconds what would take me a quarter
31:15of an hour to do. It doesn't
31:17necessarily mean it does it better, but
31:19it definitely increases speed. I also
31:21wanted to think it didn't do it better
31:23than me. Damn, I realize it's doing it
31:25>> on certain things. Yes, it will never
31:27have the humanity we have, because that
31:29humanity, it cannot be simulated.
31:31>> For now, you mean.
31:32>> Ah, well, yes. No, you can't rule it
31:34out.
31:34>> I don't know. You say it won't be able
31:35to be simulated? Honestly, I wonder,
31:37I'm simulating it right now. When I
31:40interact with artificial intelligence,
31:41sometimes it gives me fake empathetic
31:43responses. Ah, yes,
31:45>> eh, I understand you, I understand that
31:46you're frustrated. No, you don't know
31:48what the [ __ ] it means to be frustrated
31:50.
31:51>> You don't even have a clue, buddy. Clue
31:52, you're a series of zeros and ones,
31:54you can't know what it means to be
31:56frustrated. And that's something that
31:58really irritates me about this, about
32:00the way language has been implemented,
32:01even though I understand that for
32:03someone who is a bit weaker, a bit more
32:04fragile, a bit less structured, it's
32:06something that gets in dangerously,
32:07because the artificial intelligence
32:09becomes your friend. Yes. Especially in
32:12a world where having relationships,
32:14sharing,
32:16>> friend, sorry, an always-obliging
32:17friend who always agrees with you.
32:18>> Damn, that's a problem. That can be a
32:21problem for kids, it's a problem for
32:23adults too. But I wonder what will
32:25happen when we have, and I repeat, it
32:27won't be in a million years, when we
32:29also have the, let's call it, physical
32:31equivalent, right? We'll have a robot
32:33with beautiful, modulatable facial
32:35expressions that effectively punctuate
32:37everything it says. And at that point,
32:41damn, I wonder if our brain will be
32:44able to make the distinction, to say"
32:46this isn't real, "" this... "I mean,
32:48because we essentially...I don't know
32:51about you, but I fall in love with
32:53everything, with receipts, with books:
32:55let alone a robot that we might have at
33:01home, acting as our assistant.
33:02>> Well, yeah, now we have a Roomba at
33:04home, in 10 years we'll have a robot.
33:06Eh,
33:06>> yes, here at home we have three Roombas
33:08, so they're just wandering around. But
33:10in China, they produce thousands of
33:13them every single day. Ready for
33:15business. Eh, yes, there are already
33:16armies, because they say it's science
33:18fiction to us, but over there they turn
33:20out 10,000 a year, eh, and there are
33:21warehouses ready, all set, and they are
33:23installing artificial intelligence
33:25inside them, the same one we interact
33:26with on a screen; it will be a creature
33:28right in front of us.
33:29>> And at that point, it will be a bit
33:31tricky for me to figure it out.
33:34>> Yes, for us, for us especially, keeping
33:36that limit, not falling for, like you
33:38say, this thing will be
33:41>> because as soon as a robot comes out, I
33:42realize I'll buy it, I'll make sure to
33:44have it, eh?
33:45>> We should have it,
33:46>> I'll risk a divorce, I told them," No,
33:48divorce at home. "Speaking of divorce,
33:50they say the main applications will be
33:52loneliness and sex. Yeah.
33:55>> Must be, must be.
33:57>> Because, you know, dolls, let's call
33:59them realistic ones, you put in, let's
34:00say, humanoid robot technology, you add
34:02artificial intelligence, reasoning.
34:05Probably.
34:06>> Have you seen the sequel, Blade Runner
34:082049?
34:08>> Sure, sure.
34:09>> His companion.
34:10>> Of course, absolutely. And besides,
34:12it's good, you know, in the sense that
34:13one says, how the hell could they think
34:15of making a sequel? They did it well,
34:17right? Yes, it's hard to touch what,
34:20for me personally, for my personal
34:22taste, is one of the three in the
34:24Olympus of cinema,
34:25>> but they managed to make a worthy,
34:28intelligent sequel with themes that
34:30make you think. One of them is this,
34:33>> or the fact of a machine that generates
34:35a creature that grows differently; I
34:37mean, there are some great themes on a
34:40philosophical and existential level too
34:42.
34:42>> Yes, it's really
34:43>> it's not a sequel made just for the
34:45sake of it. Watch Blade Runner 2049,
34:48>> apart from the cinematography by Denis
34:50Villeneuve which is crazy, it’s
34:51unique, up to par, stunning. Yes, the
34:53beginning is beautiful. Good. Um,
34:56Alfredo, thank you,
34:58>> thanks a lot for being here. I believe
35:01our meeting will be useful to many
35:03people.
35:04>> I hope so.
35:05>> I hope someone will tell us. Let us
35:07know a little bit what you think. If
35:10you want to ask questions, maybe
35:11Alfredo can take a look below if they
35:13are questions that, well...
35:14>> also because this is my coming out,
35:16right? I mean, officially, well.
35:19>> Yes, I did it, I did it on TV, but it
35:21was just a passing mention, for
35:22heaven's sake, done in prime time on
35:25Canale 5 with 3 and a half million
35:26people. I gave a nod to the fact of
35:29being divergent, just thrown out there
35:31like that.
35:32>> Well, well, let's say it's brave, eh.
35:34>> Yes, yes, yes. And well, but sometimes
35:36it's easier to do it with so many
35:37people than in front of a person you
35:39care about. Yes, that's true.
35:41>> Thanks Alfredo, thanks to you all. Eh,
35:44well, let me remind you to like,
35:45subscribe to the channel, click the
35:47bell, etc., all of it. Take another
35:50look at the description for"
35:52Diversamente, "the event on November
35:5428th in Bologna. Are you coming? Do you
35:56have a ticket? You didn't buy one? What
35:58a waste.
35:59>> Well then wait, because we're closing
36:00now. Can you give me your email? I'll
36:02get a free pass sent to you, obviously.
36:04>> And you guys, instead, still have a way
36:06to buy tickets. There will be a few
36:08dozen left because the hall in the end
36:11became one for 806 people, so, you know
36:13, it will be a great event. We
36:15recommend you come, and you will
36:16certainly meet Alfredo too. Well, and,
36:19besides us, our whole group. Thank you.
36:21Thank you, Alfredo. See you next time.
36:23>> Bye. Bye.
36:25>> Two important things before we say
36:27goodbye. We remind you that you can
36:29find the link to our books in the
36:30description. Also, we would like to
36:33invite you to attend Diversamente, our
36:35annual event for neurodivergent people,
36:37outside the norm and differently normal
36:39. You can find more information in the
36:41description as well.
36:43>> Remember to leave a like, and we'll see
36:45you in the next episode of Neurodiversi
36:47. Bye. Bye. No.

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