YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → A Detective Haunted By Her Past | Stephanie Lazarus Interrogation

A Detective Haunted By Her Past | Stephanie Lazarus Interrogation — Transcript

by True Case Investigator · 14,859 words · 2,338 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00This is Stephanie [music] Lazarus.
0:03She built her life in law enforcement,
0:06rising through the ranks of the Los
0:07[music] Angeles Police Department and
0:09earning the trust of her colleagues
0:11while working high pressure cases.
0:14This detail matters.
0:16She wasn't just a cop. [music]
0:19She was an investigator.
0:21She's the kind of person who's [music]
0:23used to asking the questions, not
0:24answering them. But long before she
0:27became a police officer, there was a
0:30personal connection that ties directly
0:32into this case. [music] Back in 1978 at
0:36the University of California, Los
0:38Angeles, Stephanie met John Ruettin.
0:42They became close friends [music] and
0:44eventually started dating.
0:46Later, Jon moved on [music] and married
0:49Sher Rasmuson.
0:51In 1986, Sherry was found murdered in
0:54her Los Angeles home. Investigators
0:57processed the [music] crime scene,
0:59pursued leads, and followed theories,
1:02but the case was never truly resolved.
1:05It went cold and stayed that [music] way
1:07for decades.
1:09In 2009, investigators reopened the case
1:12and re-examined the evidence [music]
1:14using modern forensic testing.
1:17That's how Stephanie Lazarus got pulled
1:19into it. A private conversation away
1:22from the noise of the station meant to
1:24clear up her connection to John and
1:26Sherry. However, as the questions delved
1:29[music] into her past, the tension
1:32became apparent.
1:34>> Uh, I'm not sure. Stephanie, I don't
1:37know if you know my partner or
1:40see you guys.
1:40>> How's it going?
1:41>> Nothing around.
1:43>> Uh, well, have a seat.
1:46What this is is uh
1:48I didn't want to bring this up in your
1:51squad room as well.
1:53>> Oh, no. It's fine. I think we're good.
2:00>> We're bring You're going to bring
2:01somebody in, right?
2:02>> Yeah. Well, explain the whole thing to
2:05>> I don't want to talk about this in the
2:06squad room because I don't know who
2:08people are listening. True. And if we go
2:09to my side,
2:10>> everybody's always wondering what
2:11everybody else is doing. No problem.
2:12>> Okay. But uh like we're talking about
2:15being busy and stuff, we've been
2:16assigned a case that we've been looking
2:18at. Okay. It's a new case and reviewing
2:20the case.
2:21>> There's some notes to see as far as your
2:24name being mentioned.
2:25>> Okay.
2:26>> Do you know John Ruten?
2:28>> John Ruten.
2:30John Rutton.
2:31>> Rutton.
2:32>> Oh yeah, I went to school with him.
2:34>> You did?
2:34>> Yeah.
2:34>> How long did you know him?
2:36>> Gosh, I went to school in um let's see,
2:39went to UCLA 1978.
2:42They started and um you know met him at
2:47school at the dorms.
2:48>> Mhm.
2:49>> Um
2:50>> were you guys friends? Close friends?
2:52>> Yeah, we're very close friends. I mean I
2:54mean what's this all about?
2:55>> Well, it's regarding it's a case we're
2:57working on. It involves John and in
2:59there some of the statements we we
3:01reviewed uh you know there's notes and
3:03stuff that that he knew you and stuff.
3:05>> Oh yeah. I mean we good friends. Um
3:08lived in the dorms for I lived in the
3:10dorms for 2 years. Um,
3:12>> you guys lived in the same dorm?
3:14>> Yeah.
3:14>> Oh, okay.
3:15>> Yeah. Dyra.
3:16>> Okay. Were you guys just friends or
3:17anything else or?
3:18>> Yeah, we were we were good friends.
3:21>> Yeah. Was there any relationship or
3:23anything that developed between you
3:24guys?
3:25>> Yeah. I mean, we dated uh
3:27>> Uh-huh.
3:27>> you know. Um I mean, is what's this all
3:31about?
3:31>> Well, it's relating to uh his wife.
3:36>> Okay.
3:36>> Okay. Did you know her?
3:38>> Not really. I mean, I knew that he got
3:40married years ago.
3:41>> Uh-huh. Did you ever meet her?
3:44>> God, I don't know. Um,
3:46>> do you know who she was or anything?
3:48>> Well, I Let me think. God, it's been a
3:51long time ago. Um,
3:54>> pay attention to her body language.
3:56She's fidgeting, looking up, and
3:58stalling in response to simple
4:00questions.
4:02If it's all innocent, why does she look
4:04so uncomfortable?
4:06Um,
4:08you know, I may have met her. Um, jeez,
4:12you know.
4:14>> Yeah. Uh, well, let me see. Let me ask
4:16you. You said you you dated John. How
4:18long did you guys date?
4:21I mean, well, are you guys is this
4:23something I mean, you said that I was
4:26going to interview somebody about art
4:27and how you guys are
4:28>> here's
4:29>> I mean,
4:30>> Stephanie, here's the situation is
4:31basically we, you know, we knew that
4:34this when we saw this in the in in this
4:36chrono that maybe, you know, there was
4:38some relationship there. That's what the
4:39chrono seemed to indicate. And we didn't
4:40want to come up to you at your desk and
4:43ask those kinds of questions or do
4:45anything. you know how up there people
4:46can see what's going on if you go into
4:48an interview room or people are in there
4:49getting supplies. So we we wanted to
4:51afford you some privacy, some
4:53confidentiality to talk about this cuz
4:54we thought it might be you know
4:56something you know you're married to
4:57someone else obviously and so forth and
4:59that you may not want to you know talk
5:00about these things in that setting where
5:02someone you know we don't want the rumor
5:03mill or gossip or any of that kind of
5:04stuff.
5:05>> That's fine. I mean,
5:06>> so we we did this just as as a means to
5:08try and speak to you in just a
5:09confidential place where you, you know,
5:11where where your business isn't out
5:12there for other people in, you know,
5:14your division to know about.
5:15>> I mean, you know, God, that's been a
5:16million years ago. I mean, you know, um
5:21what year is it now? 2009. I mean, I
5:23graduated in ' 82. 82. Yeah. Um
5:28you know, we dated um I dated other
5:31guys. I'm sure he dated other girls. Um
5:35Well, let me ask you roughly how long
5:37would you would you [clears throat] say
5:38you guys did?
5:39>> Oh jeez. Um,
5:42I couldn't even say. I mean, I started
5:46school there in 78. I started UCLA 1978.
5:50>> I graduated in ' 82.
5:53>> Um, I don't even remember what year he
5:55graduated, if it was a year or two
5:57before me.
5:58>> Okay.
5:59>> Um, I think he was a little bit older
6:00than I was.
6:01>> I mean, you know, I can't remember if he
6:03was born, let's say. I was born in 60,
6:051960. I don't know if he was born in 58
6:08or 59. I mean, you know, um I mean, I
6:10knew his parents. I knew his sister. His
6:12brother went to Northridge.
6:14>> Um
6:16um you know, his sister spent the night
6:18at my house before. Obviously, I spent
6:20the night at his house before. He
6:22probably spent the night at my house
6:23before. Um, you know, I you know, I
6:27don't
6:28>> Well, correct me if I'm wrong because
6:30from what you're telling me is you guys
6:31dated while you were in college
6:33together, right?
6:34>> Yeah. And probably after college. Um, I
6:37I can't jeez. Um, trying to think when I
6:40met my husband. I met my husband in when
6:43did I meet Scott? Um,
6:46let's see. I was teaching DARE because I
6:49met Scott when I was teaching DARE up in
6:51Oregon. But we had long stopped, you
6:54know, dating before that.
6:56>> So, you haven't talked to him for a long
6:58time?
6:58>> Oh, I I think I haven't talked to him in
7:00a long time. Um, I couldn't even tell
7:02you when the last time I talked to him.
7:04Um, I met Scott, I'm thinking in ' 92,
7:08maybe. Um, April of '92. It was
7:12>> Scott being your husband.
7:13>> Yeah. I'm trying to think. I was
7:14teaching DARE. Let's see. What year is
7:17this? This is We'll be married. I got
7:20married in 1996. I think I met Scott in
7:22'92. Prior to that, I couldn't tell you
7:25how long I had talked, you know, talked
7:27to John prior to that.
7:29>> But since you since you met your
7:31husband, Scott, you hadn't talked to
7:32him.
7:33>> I mean, he may have called me
7:36>> uh once or twice before we got married,
7:39right?
7:39>> Um, you know, jeez, I I lived I moved to
7:43see me in 1994 because I lost my house
7:46in the earthquake.
7:48>> Oh. Um, uh, quite honestly, I probably
7:51keep in contact with a few people from
7:54the dorms. We, we all, we all lived on
7:56the 10th floor. Um, and, um,
8:01there's
8:05about three or four people I keep in
8:07contact with. There's probably like six
8:08or eight of us that were all really
8:10close.
8:10>> And who are those people?
8:12>> Oh, jeez. Um, Diana Basta.
8:16Um, people I still keep I I haven't been
8:20in contact with her in a long time.
8:22>> Um I mean what you know what's what's I
8:26mean what's this all about? I mean
8:27>> well let me ask you what did the
8:29relationship between you and John?
8:32>> You know I don't it was kind of a weird
8:35relationship. I mean we we we dated. Um
8:38I can't say that he was my boyfriend. I
8:40don't know that he would have considered
8:42me his girlfriend. Um we just we dated.
8:45We did things. I played sports in
8:46college. He played basketball. His
8:49brother played basketball. Um,
8:52we just, you know, it just
8:55didn't work out. I mean, I don't know
8:57what to tell you. It was like I went out
8:59with other guys. Um, saw other guys. I
9:02went on lots of vacations. Um, you know,
9:05>> and and once you guys split, were you
9:07guys still friends or kind of, you know,
9:11problems? Is it
9:12>> friendly? Not friendly?
9:14>> No, I don't think it was not friendly. I
9:16mean, we were friendly. Um, uh, I know
9:18that we went to Hawaii,
9:21um, at one point. Um, another friend of
9:25mine who's actually dying right now, uh,
9:28was went to Hawaii with us, um, at some
9:31point. Um,
9:32>> remember roughly when that was?
9:34>> Oh jeez. Um,
9:36let me think.
9:39I'd have to check my pictures. Um or I'd
9:42say I'd ask Greg, but my friend Greg is
9:44like dying of liver cancer right now.
9:46>> Um
9:47>> yeah, I mean I you know
9:50>> and you were saying that um
9:52>> it's 2009 now.
9:53>> Had you ever met his wife?
9:56>> I may have.
9:57>> Do you know do you remember her name or
9:58anything or
10:00>> um
10:04um
10:05>> or what she did for a living or where
10:08she worked or anything about her? Well,
10:10I think she I I'm going to say I think
10:12she was a nurse. Um,
10:16man, I can't even remember how he he
10:17said he met her. Uh, yeah. I mean, I I
10:20Yeah, [clears throat] I mean, it's been
10:21so long ago.
10:22>> Well, let me ask you, did you go to
10:23their wedding, you know?
10:25>> No, I didn't go to their wedding. Um,
10:27no, [clears throat] I don't did not go
10:29to their wedding. Um, couldn't even tell
10:32you what year we got married. I mean,
10:34you know, it's it's been a million years
10:35ago.
10:35>> Do you ever remember if you ever talked
10:37to her? because it seems like a lot of
10:38you who were at at the school at UCLA,
10:41you guys kind of were friends during and
10:42after school. So, I don't know if you
10:44guys still associated afterwards once he
10:46was married or anything
10:48>> with him.
10:49>> Yeah.
10:49>> No, I don't think so. I mean,
10:53I would say, you know, the the people
10:56that were on the dorm floor, we'd have
10:58we'd have gettogethers.
11:00Um there's probably like four or five. I
11:03don't think he ever came. Um, yeah. I
11:06don't think No, there was there was like
11:07it was mostly girls, you know. Um, girl
11:11named Smea Diane. Um,
11:15there's there's two Dian's, but the one
11:17Diane, I don't think she ever came. I
11:19kind of lost contact with her. We were
11:21good friends on the floor. Um, yeah. I
11:24mean, I don't you know, again, I I mean,
11:26what you know, I don't understand why
11:29you're talking about some guy I dated a
11:31million years ago.
11:31>> Well, do you know what happened to his
11:33wife?
11:33>> Yeah, I know. where she got killed.
11:36>> Do you see that? These are super basic
11:39questions.
11:40Do you know John Ruettin? How long? Just
11:43friends.
11:45But she immediately looks uneasy.
11:48She keeps shifting in her chair, glances
11:50up like she's searching for the right
11:52answer. [music] And her story starts
11:54sliding from close friends to we dated
11:57to I'm not sure.
12:00So why does this simple question make
12:02her this nervous?
12:04What did you what did you hear about
12:05that?
12:06>> I I saw a poster at work. Um I'm sure I
12:10spoke to him about it. Um I think I
12:13spoke to another friend of his about it.
12:16Um
12:17>> and how did how did you first learn
12:18about that?
12:20>> Jeez.
12:22Someone could have called me. I could
12:24have heard it at work. Um
12:27I think at one point there may have been
12:28a flyer or something. I know a good
12:30friend of his. Um,
12:31>> were you on the job back then when that
12:33happened?
12:34>> Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I'm sure I was
12:36on the job. That's who I would have
12:37heard about it with the flyer. Um, he
12:39had a good friend, Mike. Mike Mike
12:42Baldrick. Mike
12:46um
12:49anyways, a he may have lived in the
12:51dorms. I don't remember if that's how I
12:53met him. Um I I may have talked to him.
12:55I mean, you know, I don't remember how I
12:58heard. I mean, I don't even remember
12:59what year it was. And you think you you
13:01thought you said you thought his wife
13:02was a nurse. Do you have any idea where
13:04she was working at the time? Or
13:05>> did he ever mention that to you? Was it
13:08a hospital or a doctor's office?
13:09>> I'm sure he must have mentioned it now.
13:11Now that you're bringing that up, I
13:13think she worked at a hospital
13:14somewhere. And yeah, I may have met her
13:16at a hospital. Um I may have talked to
13:19her once or twice. Um
13:22>> at a hospital
13:22>> or more um you know,
13:25>> but being that you were kind of you used
13:27to see uh John you know, was it
13:31everything okay between you guys? I
13:32mean, there wasn't every anything
13:33uncomfortable or anything between you
13:35and her?
13:36>> Um,
13:38you know, I don't know. I mean, it's
13:40God, it's been so many years. I mean,
13:43uncomfortable. I mean,
13:47I can't even I can't even remember if we
13:49had a conversation. I mean, we may have
13:51I may have I may have seen her at his
13:54apartment, you know. Jeez, how many
13:57years ago is that? I don't even know
13:58what year she, you know, got killed.
14:01>> The detectives ask simple follow-up
14:03questions.
14:05Where did she work? Did you ever meet
14:07her? And did anything make you feel
14:09uncomfortable?
14:11But Stephanie keeps drifting into maybe.
14:13And I don't remember. The more specific
14:16the question, the more uncertain she
14:19becomes.
14:20>> Where was his apartment?
14:21>> On Rosco.
14:22>> Okay.
14:23>> Yeah. Rosco and um um
14:27east or west of Dot. Uh either east or
14:30west of Dodto.
14:32>> Do you know where he moved after did he
14:34move after he got married or do you know
14:35or
14:40>> I'm sure he did.
14:41>> Did you know where he was living or
14:45>> somewhere in the valley?
14:46>> Did you ever visit him and his wife?
14:49>> No.
14:50>> No. never went out, you know, get
14:52together, dinners,
14:54>> anything of that nature.
14:55>> Oh, no. Like I said, his sister used to
14:57come over. His sister had had come to my
15:00place. I knew his I knew his brother cuz
15:02his brother played basketball at
15:04Northridge. Um, in fact, I was just
15:06coming across some pictures that I just
15:08scan
15:09uh scanned from um I take a lot of
15:12photos.
15:13>> Um like 10,000. And I just did a service
15:17where I scanned everything. Um, and I'd
15:20seen some pictures of his brother
15:21playing basketball.
15:21>> You just put them all on your computer
15:22so you could have them accessible and do
15:24things with them.
15:25>> Well, my partner is a big photo thing
15:27and he had a deal to scan.
15:29>> So, I spent a ton of time just scanning
15:32photos. I mean, I paid a company to do
15:35it.
15:35>> Mhm.
15:35>> Um, so I've got photos of I mean, his
15:38brother, his sister, you know,
15:40>> 10,000 pictures.
15:41>> Oh, yeah.
15:42>> How long did that take them?
15:44>> Months. [laughter]
15:45>> Now, what what do they do? They put that
15:47on a I'm just curious myself. And they
15:48put it on they get get all on one DVD.
15:51They don't need like a hard drive or
15:52anything.
15:52>> No. No. There's like I think 11 DVDs.
15:56>> Yeah. I haven't even I don't even
15:57>> Oh, they It's a series of DVDs that they
15:59put them on.
16:00>> Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I got
16:01>> I'm not that familiar with computer
16:02stuff, so that's why I was asking.
16:03>> It's like 11 DVDs. Oh,
16:05>> okay.
16:05>> So, you know, um I haven't had a chance
16:08to go through them. I I You could go
16:11through and pick which ones you don't
16:12want. I don't have time to do that.
16:14Right. Yeah.
16:14>> You know, so so like you said, did I,
16:16you know, I I don't think we ever
16:18socialized. Um, you know, he'd still
16:22call me. Um, I can't say that I would. I
16:24mean, if he's married, I don't know that
16:25I would have called him. I mean, maybe.
16:27Who knows? I, you know, I I don't know.
16:29It's been a million years ago.
16:30>> How long was John married before his
16:32wife died?
16:33>> I couldn't I have no idea. I have no
16:36idea.
16:38>> They ask how long John had been married
16:40when his wife died. She says she has no
16:43idea.
16:44However, when the topic turns to contact
16:47after the murder, she's suddenly
16:49confident that she spoke with him as
16:51well as his parents and friends. Then,
16:54when asked if she ever visited [music]
16:56Jon and his wife after he moved, she
16:59won't commit to a clear yes or no, only
17:02saying maybe. If the contact was that
17:06real, why are the basic details still so
17:09difficult to pin down? And uh after his
17:13wife died, did did you talk to him again
17:15or anything?
17:17>> Yeah, I mean I did talk to him.
17:18>> Mhm.
17:19>> I talked to him, probably his parents.
17:22Um probably some other friends. Um you
17:26know,
17:27I'm sure I talked to him.
17:29>> Yeah.
17:29>> Um
17:30>> but you you don't you're not sure where
17:32he moved to after he got married?
17:34>> No idea. I mean,
17:35>> never went over to to visit him or
17:37>> I don't think I mean I don't think so. I
17:39mean um I don't know. I don't I mean I
17:43don't think I did. Um I mean I know he
17:46lived on Rosco for a long long time.
17:49>> Um
17:54I mean he I may know I mean he may have
17:56told me where they lived somewhere in
17:57the valley. I mean he may have said I
17:59lived over such and such but I I
18:01couldn't tell you specifically where.
18:03But you don't remember specifically ever
18:05going over to visit him or visit them at
18:07where wherever he moved when he left
18:08Rosco?
18:10>> I I I honestly I don't know. I don't
18:12think so. But
18:13>> okay.
18:13>> You know, I don't want to say no. I
18:15don't think so. And then he says, "Oh,
18:17yeah. She came over for something. Drop
18:19something off." You know, I'm I don't
18:22know. So, if you did go over there, it
18:24just be like a a quick thing like like
18:26you're saying, drop something off or
18:28>> maybe um
18:30>> But you don't remember as far as like
18:31going there to have dinner or like a
18:33social anything at the house, party?
18:36>> Well, if you guys know something, I I
18:38just I can't I don't know. I don't think
18:40so. I mean, but
18:43>> after uh John's wife died and you said
18:47you may have been talking to him. Did uh
18:49your relationship start up again?
18:52I would say no. Um,
18:55again, can you give me a year? I mean,
18:58this is like 2009.
19:00>> She died in 1986.
19:02>> Yeah, I think it was 86.
19:03>> 1986.
19:04>> Okay. Um,
19:06like I said, I'm I'm faintly remembering
19:09that.
19:10Um, I went to Hawaii
19:13with my friend Greg. Greg and I got
19:15certified for scuba diving.
19:18Um, and I'm thinking that John met us
19:21there, meaning Greg and I. Um,
19:25that could have been I got certified
19:30toward the end of 88 or I mean, yeah. 88
19:3489. Um,
19:38cuz I got reertified again and it had
19:40been like over
19:4210 10 years. So, I got reertified. My
19:45husband I got reertified. Um,
19:49and I'm pretty sure that John met us
19:52there. Um, again, I'd have to tell you
19:56what year it was. I'd have to look at my
19:57pictures. Um, you know, um, and other
20:02than that, I can't even say he may have
20:04called me, you know, at my home. Um, I
20:08may have called him. Um, I don't think
20:11he got together with our group. Um,
20:14>> you don't think after his wife's death?
20:16Uh even before I don't you know we went
20:21to weddings together. I you know
20:23>> did you
20:24>> I've got pictures I like I said I
20:26couldn't tell you years. It's been a
20:28million years ago
20:29>> after he after he got uh married or
20:32whatever. Were Were you dating anybody
20:35>> in particular?
20:36>> And that was what year? 1986 you said
20:38>> I think he got married in around 8586
20:41something like that. Were you seeing
20:43anyone seriously or?
20:45>> God, I couldn't say. Um,
20:49geez, I'm trying to think. I mean, you
20:52know, I dated a fireman. Um,
20:55>> what was his name?
20:56>> Mike Art. Um, and I'm trying to think.
21:00>> Was he LFD or
21:01>> he was LFD?
21:02>> Um, I'm trying to think when I went I
21:05probably met Mike. I went to
21:07Devincenture.
21:09Let's see. I left Hollywood in 8. I I
21:11worked Hollywood 84
21:14to 85 I think and then I went to
21:17Devonshire and that's when I met Mike um
21:21and some other firemen
21:24and
21:24>> what the station next door?
21:26>> No actually
21:26>> cuz I used to work Hollywood so I just
21:28wonder if it was the station
21:29>> No it was in when I worked Devincure I
21:31met Mike.
21:32>> Oh okay. All right. And I'm trying to
21:34think. I went to Devonure in ' 85. And
21:37I'm thinking that
21:40I would have met him probably sometime
21:42shortly after I went to Devonshire cuz I
21:45met him and his I actually met his
21:46buddies at a fight. [clears throat]
21:49>> Um and then Mike and I dated,
21:53you know, just really kind of casually.
21:56>> Um
21:58and we remain very I mean we remain good
22:01friends. Um
22:02>> you still in touch with him or
22:03>> Unfortunately, he passed away.
22:05>> Oh, really?
22:06>> He died in a um he had a car crash. Um
22:09he did race cars and um he went heading
22:13into a wall.
22:16>> I couldn't tell you what year that was.
22:17Um but he passed away. He was in a coma
22:20and they pulled the uh the plug,
22:22>> right?
22:22>> Seems like uh anyway. Um so, you know, I
22:28couldn't even tell you what what year.
22:30I'm thinking I went to Devon 85 and I
22:32know I met the guys because I it was
22:33kind of a funny incident of how I met
22:35them and that's how I remember it was
22:37sometime probably 85
22:40>> right
22:41>> um you know specifically I don't even
22:43know if they remember the other two are
22:44now married to somebody else cuz I kind
22:46of
22:48all three I mean
22:49>> did you kind of socialize like when you
22:50were out with Mike did those guys come
22:52out with you too was it kind of like did
22:53you do stuff with his friends or
22:55>> Well um there were three there was two
22:57firemen Eric and Gary um I met them
23:00first, then they introduced me to Mike.
23:03So, that's how I met Mike and Mike dated
23:05Mike and I dated.
23:06>> Mhm.
23:07>> So, um and and not I wouldn't even say I
23:10couldn't even tell you for how long
23:11because then it say we decided you know
23:13it wasn't working out and we'd be better
23:15friends and you know he introduced me I
23:18think to some other guy on that who now
23:21is on LAPD
23:23um uh
23:26Randy Cordobus.
23:29Um,
23:30>> I don't think I know.
23:30>> He's a detective. He's got a twin
23:32brother who's on the fire department.
23:33That's how I met Randy.
23:35>> Um, because he had a twin brother,
23:38identical twin on the fire department.
23:40>> Okay.
23:40>> Um, and
23:43>> you and I dated him when? I couldn't
23:46tell you. It was before he came on the
23:47job.
23:49>> Oh, before Randy came on the job.
23:50>> Yeah.
23:51>> Oh, okay. And that was
23:54um I I'm God, I'm trying to remember if
23:57Mike may have
24:01I'm trying to remember. Mike may have
24:04dated um
24:06a girl that he dated.
24:09Oh God, it sounds too weird. Um,
24:12Randy may have dated a gal that Mike was
24:15dating and that and then Mike Randy
24:19broke up with that gal. I couldn't even
24:21tell you the gal's name if I'm even
24:23thinking of the story right and then I
24:25started dating Randy.
24:27>> Yeah.
24:28I you know so again I mean
24:31>> not like I was a huge floozy or anything
24:34but
24:34>> no but you know I mean a lot of times
24:36right at least from my female partners
24:39that I've had you know it's hard dating
24:41guys that aren't involved in kind of our
24:43circle right because some a lot some
24:44guys are intimidated by you know women
24:46police officers
24:47>> yeah Randy was like an engineer at the
24:49time uh he was like a some kind of an
24:51engineer
24:52>> on a truck on a rig on a fire truck.
24:53>> No no um an engineer. Um,
24:55>> oh, a professional engineer.
24:57>> And then I think he lost a job and then
24:58came on on the department.
25:00>> I see.
25:01>> So, um,
25:02>> you're getting back to some stuff. As
25:04far as you recall, after John's wife
25:06died, I
25:08did you start a relationship again with
25:10with John or dating casually or anything
25:14like that.
25:16Notice how she floods the room with side
25:19stories, mentioning names, old dating
25:21drama, and random details that don't
25:24move the conversation forward.
25:27That's classic clutter talk, talking a
25:29lot to avoid addressing the one topic
25:31that actually matters.
25:33The detective plays it smart, though.
25:36He lets her run for a moment, then
25:38calmly steers her straight back to the
25:40core of the case. Like I said,
25:44he met Greg and I in Hawaii. Okay. Um,
25:49>> that was something you guys kind of
25:51planned together, like go as a group or
25:53you ran into him or
25:54>> No, I I think that obviously I must have
25:57talked to him and I said, "Hey, I'm
26:00going to Hawaii with my buddy Greg.
26:02We're we're sc we're scuba We just got
26:04certified scuba diving. Um, uh, we're
26:08going to be in Hawaii. Hey, if you want
26:09to come and join us, come join us."
26:11>> Right. And I I think that's what it was.
26:13Um I I may have asked some other people
26:16to as well. Um you know, uh what island
26:20did we go to?
26:23I think the big island in Kawaii. He
26:26either met us on the Big Island or
26:27Kauaii. I'm thinking of SC Greg and I
26:31might have scuba dived a lot in on the
26:32Big Island as well as Kawaii. I'm I I
26:36don't remember which island. Again, I'd
26:38have to look at my pictures. Um, I
26:40traveled a lot
26:42>> um, on my vacations. I mean, I was
26:43always gone for at least a month. Um,
26:47and I would go places and I would either
26:49run into people or, you know, you know,
26:52meet people. Um,
26:54>> and Greg, this Greg we're talking about,
26:57he was
26:59like someone you were dating or just a
27:02buddy or
27:02>> No, you know what? I would I would say
27:05we started out um probably just buddies.
27:09Um and either I was with somebody or he
27:12was with somebody, but it was all we it
27:14was kind of like we ended up just kind
27:15of being like brother and sister. Um
27:19and maybe he wanted something more, but
27:21um you know, it just it never you know
27:24worked out, but we we we did things
27:26together. Um, you know, I would consider
27:28them I've probably known him,
27:31[sighs] let's see, I've been on the job
27:33almost 26 years. I've probably known him
27:36growing 23, 24 years. Um,
27:39>> does he still talk to him?
27:40>> Oh, yeah. He's dying of liver cancer
27:42right now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry.
27:44>> Yeah. So, um, [clears throat] so, you
27:46know, I I consider him a good friend.
27:49Um,
27:50>> you know, um,
27:54you know, I don't know what to tell you
27:55on that.
27:56I mean, when when you heard about uh
27:59John's wife being killed, I mean, what
28:01was your what was your reaction? I mean,
28:03did you thought you heard about it what
28:05through a friend or in a bulletin or
28:07something?
28:07>> A friend or a bulletin? Um, I obviously
28:09I mean, I called I called the family.
28:12Um, I I called maybe some of his friends
28:14that that that I knew. And I mean,
28:15obviously it shocked your fear. If I
28:17heard it at work, you know, um, which I
28:20may have I I faintly remember a bulletin
28:22going around. Um either that or somebody
28:26called me. I I also don't don't
28:27remember. Right.
28:28>> Um uh and then I called probably called
28:30his family. Um called uh I don't
28:35initially I can't say if I initially
28:38spoke to him or not. I honestly
28:39[clears throat] don't remember. I may
28:41have said to somebody, "Hey, have him
28:43call me if he wants to talk." And then
28:45he may have done that.
28:46>> Uhhuh. Um, you know, um,
28:51>> do you know what the circumstances were
28:54regarding her death?
28:58>> Jeez, let me think back. Um,
29:02jeez, I don't know if it was, you know,
29:04if it was a burglary or something. Uh,
29:07yeah, it's I mean, it's been so many
29:09years. I I mean, I can faintly think
29:11that I may have saw a flyer.
29:13>> Yeah.
29:13>> Uh, may have had her picture on it, you
29:16know. Um, I may That's why I say if
29:19somebody had called me, I may not have
29:21known what her last name was. I may
29:24have. I mean, maybe if you told me, I
29:25would remember it. Um,
29:27>> do you remember her first name?
29:30>> Shelly. Um, Sherry,
29:34I don't know something maybe. You know,
29:36um, like I said, it's been so many years
29:38and um, [clears throat]
29:40>> from all the years, as far as you can
29:41remember, you don't do you remember ever
29:44talking to her? is
29:45>> well I said earlier you know I I mean I
29:49may have you know I may have talked to
29:52her um I it sound I you know
29:55>> you mentioned a hospital maybe you may
29:57have talked her at a hospital
29:59>> yeah um yeah I may have you know I'm I'm
30:03thinking back now you guys are bringing
30:05up all these old memories
30:06>> no it kind of dust off the convers
30:09um
30:11>> the detective loops back to the timeline
30:13and asks the same question again, this
30:16time with a tighter focus.
30:19It's a consistency check, repeating a
30:23simple detail to see what holds up under
30:25pressure.
30:27The answer doesn't land on one clear
30:29version, though. [music] It splinters
30:31into overlapping possibilities, and even
30:33the basics start to look shaky.
30:38I'm thinking that
30:41because I mean we would date he would
30:43date other people. I would date other
30:44people.
30:45>> And I think you know
30:49at one point I mean he may have been
30:52dating her or I don't know maybe he was
30:55married. I don't even remember. And I'm
30:57like you know what? Why are you calling
30:58me if you're either dating her or living
31:01with her or married to her? I because I
31:03honestly don't remember the time frame.
31:04And I'm like, "Come on, knock it off."
31:06And I'm now I'm thinking I I may have
31:08gone to her and say, "Hey, you know
31:09what? You know what? Is he dating you?
31:12He's he's bothering me." Um, and so I'm
31:15thinking that we had a conversation
31:16about that. Um,
31:19one or two maybe. I, you know, it could
31:22have been three. I don't want to say I
31:23had three conversations with her
31:25>> like at her work or at their at their
31:28house or
31:29>> No, I'm thinking that I, you know, he
31:31obviously must have told me where she
31:32worked. I'm thinking it was a hospital
31:34somewhere in LA. And I just I mean I
31:38could have been again. What year was
31:40that? Where was I working? Um,
31:43[clears throat]
31:49you know, [clears throat] I don't I
31:50don't I'm trying to think of where I
31:52when did you say they got married?
31:55>> I don't know. I think it was like in '
31:5785 or '86 or something like that.
32:00Yeah, we we we we just kind of picked
32:02this up. We you know, we don't know
32:03[clears throat] a lot about it.
32:12>> I mean, I could have been working in
32:13Hollywood, it sounds like, if if that's
32:15where I was working. Um, so I could have
32:18said, "Okay, well, you know," and I went
32:20talked to her um and just said, "Hey,
32:22you know what? You know, if he's dating
32:24you, he's he's keeps calling me. Why
32:27don't you tell him to knock it off or
32:29whatever? And you know, because I
32:30probably would have told him to knock it
32:31off.
32:32>> You would have told John.
32:33>> Oh, yeah. I mean, I would have said,
32:34"Hey, you know, and again,
32:38>> but you wanted to tell her, too. You
32:39wanted them both to know."
32:40>> Yeah. I mean, you know, if you get
32:42you're getting her called and I'm trying
32:44I'm faintly remembering uh when Scott
32:48moved in with me in 1993,
32:51sometime in '93, cuz I met Scott in in
32:54in
32:56April of '92. I was teaching DARE up in
32:58Oregon.
32:58>> Mhm.
32:59>> Um and
33:03um he moved down, in fact, he may have
33:07moved down in '92. ' 92 or 93. There was
33:10a big earthquake. No. When was the big
33:12earthquake?
33:13>> No. 94.
33:14>> 94. Yeah.
33:17>> I think Scott might have might moved
33:18into 93. Sometime in 93.
33:22>> Excuse me. Um,
33:25>> notice the shift.
33:27A moment [music] ago, the connection to
33:29Sherry felt distant, but then it
33:32suddenly turned into a possible
33:34face-to-face confrontation at her
33:36workplace.
33:38That's what timeline probing does. The
33:41more details that are revealed, the more
33:44the story changes.
33:46When even basic details such as her name
33:49and the exact time Jon was with her
33:51become unreliable,
33:53a serious question arises.
33:56What is being forgotten and what is
33:58being avoided?
34:00>> I haven't had my breakfast yet. Um, and
34:03so,
34:04um, excuse me. Um, and so I faintly
34:10recall that John may have called a few
34:12times and I'm like, hey, you know, I've
34:14got, he goes, can you I like you, can
34:16you talk or something? I'm like, you
34:18know, no, I can't talk. I've got, you
34:19know, I'm living with somebody,
34:20>> right?
34:21>> You know, and then that could have been
34:22a few times. It could have been once,
34:23could have been twice, could have been
34:24three times. I don't know, you know.
34:27>> Um,
34:27>> and that's during the period of time of
34:28the earthquake that you're
34:30>> Well, no, probably probably after Scott
34:32moved in. I think I met Scott in April
34:34of '92. Oh,
34:35>> okay. right before
34:37>> April of '92 cuz I was I I stopped
34:39teaching DARE
34:46>> I think I stopped teaching Dare sometime
34:47in '92.
34:48>> Mhm. Um,
34:52>> and when you and when you say that you
34:53may have um, you know, that you talked
34:56to his wife, said, "Hey," or, you know,
34:58I don't know if it was I guess it wasn't
34:59his wife at that time, girlfriend or
35:00whatever. And
35:01>> yeah, I don't know if it was his wife or
35:02his I I I mean, quite honestly, I don't
35:04even remember
35:04>> when you said like, "Hey, you know, he's
35:06calling me. He needs to knock it off or
35:07what have you." I mean, was that was
35:08that civil? Was there I mean
35:10>> Oh, yeah. No, there was not. I don't
35:11think there was anything. It was it the
35:12conversation lasted
35:14a few minutes, so I can't even remember.
35:16And what is it like, you know, we went
35:17out to lunch or anything,
35:18>> right? But there was no like arguments
35:19or fights or it didn't get heated or
35:22anything like that.
35:22>> Not that I recall. No, I mean
35:25>> I would think that would stand out. I
35:26would think. Now again, that's not
35:28standing out in my mind. Um,
35:31you know,
35:34>> so you didn't have any problems with her
35:35then?
35:36>> You didn't have any issues with her?
35:37>> No. I mean,
35:37>> but let me let me ask you, seems like
35:40you didn't have any issue. Now, did she
35:42have an issue with you as far as because
35:44now you're telling her, "Hey,
35:46>> you know, Helma, stop calling now." You
35:48know, she's like, "Hey," you know, you
35:50figure she'd be threatened by you,
35:52>> you know? I've I don't know. I mean,
35:55>> from what you remember as far as when
35:56you talked to her, maybe you didn't take
35:58it as serious, but maybe, you know, did
36:00she she was bugging?
36:02>> Like, was she throwing things at me or
36:03something? Or
36:03>> Well, no. Just, you know,
36:05>> as far as you're trying to explain like,
36:06"Hey, stop calling me, you know, stop
36:08playing games." You know, I I tell you
36:11if the conversation I couldn't even tell
36:13you how long the conversation if you
36:14said did it last a half an hour, did it
36:16last 3 minutes? Did it last 20 minutes?
36:18I can't even remember. It's been so long
36:20ago, you know. Um
36:22>> you just remember talking to her,
36:23telling her.
36:24>> Yeah. And that's why you said how many
36:25times you talked to her. I don't know
36:26how many times I talked to her. Maybe it
36:27was once, maybe it was twice, maybe it
36:29was three times, you know. I I honestly
36:31don't know. Um I I don't know what year
36:34it was. Um, if you if he said, "I met
36:37her in such and such year," I'd go,
36:39"Okay." Well, I don't even know what
36:40year he met her. Um, I graduated from,
36:44you see, in 1982. Okay. I graduated 82.
36:48Like I said, I don't know if he
36:50graduated. I know he was a little older
36:53than I was. So, I don't know if he
36:54graduated a year before or two years
36:56before because people are on different
36:58um either on the four-year program or
37:00the 5-year program. Um,
37:03>> this is where the interview shifts from
37:04background information to pressure.
37:08The detectives probe for conflict
37:09because if a fight happened, the memory
37:12shouldn't be vague.
37:14But the answers drift once, twice, maybe
37:18three times, minutes, maybe longer, year
37:22unknown.
37:24That uncertainty is exactly what they're
37:26testing for.
37:27>> What year did you come on the job? 83.
37:31>> Oh, so almost pretty much immediately
37:33after you got out of school.
37:35>> Yeah, I worked at a law firm for a year.
37:38Um, and then came on the job. But
37:41anyway, in regards to seeing him, not
37:44seeing him, we went to friends weddings
37:46that were, you know, from UCLA. Um, I
37:50may have gone to some of his friends
37:52weddings from where he worked. Um, he
37:55may have gone to things with me, you
37:57know. Um,
38:00you know, I mean, I I don't know how
38:02many times we went to do things, you
38:04know,
38:05>> or didn't do things,
38:06>> right?
38:06>> Like I said, his sister,
38:09um, um, I know his sister, uh, his
38:13brother, his sister, I know, stayed at
38:15my townhouse
38:17a number of times. I couldn't tell you
38:18how many times,
38:19>> right?
38:20>> Um, I would watch his brother, you know,
38:23shoot, uh, take pictures at a basketball
38:25game or or two. Where was your townhouse
38:27at?
38:28>> In Granada Hills. Um, below the Odyssey.
38:32>> I don't know what valley.
38:33>> Oh, I'm sorry. The 405 and the five. Um,
38:36the 405. The the 405 turns into the
38:38five, the 118. Um, they they came down
38:41in the earthquake.
38:42>> Okay.
38:43>> So,
38:44>> Okay. And you're saying when you went to
38:47see her, do you would you remember if it
38:50was at her house or at the place she
38:53worked at?
38:55No, I'm thinking that I'm thinking that
38:57it was probably
38:59for some reason I want to say that the
39:01hospital seemed that, you know, if you
39:04say he got married in 85 or something,
39:07I'm thinking that, you know, maybe the
39:09hospital was on my way to work in
39:11Hollywood. I mean, that's kind of
39:13sounding familiar. Um,
39:16>> would you have gone on duty?
39:18>> Oh, no. I'm I'm sure I wouldn't have. I
39:20No, I'm I'm pretty good about not doing
39:22stuff,
39:23>> you I mean, now I'm not saying that, you
39:25know, you haven't done stuff on duty,
39:27but I I I would have I mean, I would
39:29have been working with somebody.
39:30>> Oh, yeah.
39:31>> You know, so I wouldn't I wouldn't think
39:34I mean, I try to avoid doing stuff on
39:36duty.
39:36>> So,
39:37>> so you would have gone if it was in
39:39route to work, you more than likely you
39:41would have gone to her work and had this
39:43discussion with her.
39:44>> I mean, that's sounding familiar. I
39:46mean, that's now that you guys are
39:47bringing this stuff up. Um, I mean, it
39:50sound that sounds familiar. Um, but
39:52again, I mean, you know,
39:55what's I mean, what's this got to do
39:56with me dating him and, you know, her
39:58getting killed? I mean, I I don't, you
40:01know, I don't have anything to do with
40:02it. And you got something that's
40:05somebody said, you know, whatever. I
40:07mean,
40:07>> well, like we said, we we just literally
40:09got this the other day and and you're
40:10going through it. Yeah.
40:11>> And you see
40:12>> you saw me say, "Oh, it's Nick's next
40:13door."
40:14>> Right. And and so, you know, I mean,
40:16obviously, it's like we recognize the
40:17name. We know that, you know, you work
40:18next door to us and so we're trying to
40:20get some background. We're trying to
40:21figure this out. I mean, this is from a
40:23long time ago.
40:23>> Oh, I know. You know, and and things
40:25have been kind of slow for us and so,
40:27you know, Chief Beck has said, "Hey, you
40:28know, I want you guys working. I don't
40:30want you just sitting around reading the
40:31paper." So, he's kind of pushing some
40:33older cases out even to the guys that
40:34work active cases because, you know, and
40:36so we see this and we're just like, "Oh,
40:37well, you know, we want to talk to you
40:39about it." But, of course, the only
40:40reason we did it here is because we're
40:41getting into some pretty personal stuff
40:42in your relationship.
40:43>> You know, my my husband's on the job.
40:45We've been married. You know, we don't
40:46want to take the risk. We don't want to
40:48take the risk. We're in one of those
40:48interview rooms. Even when the door
40:50closed, someone's going to get supplies
40:51and see us on a monitor here or
40:52whatever.
40:53>> I appreciate it. I mean, I appreciate,
40:54like I said,
40:55>> that's where people go when there's
40:56orals. You know, when they're doing
40:57orals, guys will go in there and try and
40:58watch. What are the answers to the
40:59questions, you know?
41:00>> I didn't know that.
41:01>> Yeah. So, so we just we just want to
41:02afford you the most privacy and
41:04confidentiality we could.
41:05>> No, I appreciate and like I said, I
41:06mean, this goes way back and I mean, it
41:09was very sad. You know, obviously, um,
41:13>> these questions clearly bother her.
41:16She looks uncomfortable and keeps
41:18pushing back.
41:20You can almost see her trying to
41:22understand what this is really about
41:24while the detectives remain calm and
41:26matter of fact as they explain why
41:28they're reopening this old case.
41:31>> I I haven't I you know I when we were in
41:34college, some of us would go down to his
41:36house in San Diego. I I went down to his
41:38house with him, you know, um with with
41:41him. And I know I I'm trying to think of
41:43some other people that may have gone
41:44down. he grew up is down there.
41:46>> Yeah, down in San Diego.
41:47>> Okay.
41:47>> Um I know his dad's was a professor at
41:50San Diego State. I don't know if he
41:51still is.
41:53>> Um
41:54>> I don't know what happened to his
41:55sister. Don't know what happened to his
41:56brother. Um
41:59you know, I'm sure his dad's probably
42:00retired by now. He was I think older. Um
42:05even back then,
42:06>> right?
42:07>> Um and I I can't even tell you the last
42:10time I had any contact with any of them.
42:12It's been so long.
42:13>> Did he tell you what happened? like what
42:15he heard from the detectives or the
42:16police or
42:19>> you know what he may have um
42:23for some reason I'm thinking that I mean
42:26again this is like
42:33drugs or something. I mean, I think I
42:35faintly remember him mentioning
42:38something maybe about cocaine.
42:40Um,
42:42>> that she was involved with that.
42:43>> You know, I don't know that he said she
42:45was involved or they thought she, you
42:47know, again, it's been so long. I, you
42:50know, he could have mentioned he could
42:51have told me the whole story of what
42:53happened. And I mean, like I said, I'm
42:55faintly remember either between him or
42:57the flyer, um, that there was some kind
43:01of a burglary. Um,
43:05you know,
43:06>> let me ask you, did the detectives ever
43:08reach out to you?
43:09>> No, no one's ever talked to me. I don't
43:11think anybody ever talked to me about
43:12about him. Um,
43:13>> it seems like back.
43:15>> Well, I I take
43:19I'm thinking that I did talk to a
43:21detective.
43:23Um, God.
43:26Well, what division was it
43:28>> in Van Ice?
43:32>> And where was I working?
43:34Um,
43:35>> 1986.
43:37>> I would have been working in Devonshire.
43:41>> You know, I'm thinking that I did speak
43:43to somebody.
43:44>> Oh, really?
43:44>> I couldn't tell you who it was
43:47>> cuz it doesn't it doesn't say anything.
43:48>> Probably on the phone. Um
43:51>> would it have been somebody in regards
43:53to this or just
43:54>> Yeah.
43:55>> Uh-huh.
43:55>> Yeah. Um
43:58I don't even know if you said a name if
43:59I would remember it because I worked Van
44:01Ice for a while.
44:02>> Oh, you did?
44:03>> Yeah, I worked um
44:04>> detectives patrol.
44:05>> No, I worked detectives.
44:06>> Uhhuh.
44:07>> Um
44:09when did I go to Van Ice?
44:12I worked Devonshire till 88. Then I went
44:15to Dare till 92.
44:18I worked twice at Van Ice. Um
44:21>> both as a detective.
44:22>> Yeah.
44:27Sometime in the 90s.
44:29>> Um
44:33yeah, I I know before I busted my leg
44:36up. I was there in '98 cuz that year
44:38sticks out because I had a really bad
44:40leg injury. Um
44:43and I was there prior to that, but I
44:45couldn't tell you what year. It was just
44:47a few years. I made detective I think in
44:4993
44:5293.
44:53So um I was at Van Eis and then I went
44:58back and then I had a leg injury and
44:59then they transferred me to Devonshire
45:01cuz I couldn't drive.
45:02>> Mhm.
45:02>> I couldn't drive very far with the my
45:04bad leg injury. So um but yeah, I I I
45:09think I talked to somebody. [snorts]
45:11um
45:12>> remembering would you remember any of
45:14the conversation as far as what they
45:16were looking for?
45:18>> Couldn't say I mean they may have told
45:20me I said hey you know I went to school
45:23with him um I either they either
45:25somebody called me or I saw the fly I
45:27may have seen the flyer at that point
45:29and I called up if if someone's name was
45:31on the flyer I may have called to speak
45:33to them. I said, "Hey, if there's
45:34anything I can do, you know, um, call
45:37me. This is where I work. You know, I
45:40went to, uh, you know, uh, school with
45:42them."
45:43>> Um,
45:46couldn't [snorts] say. I couldn't tell
45:47you who it was.
45:49>> But you do remember that that someone
45:50you think reached out to you?
45:53>> You mean a detective?
45:54>> Yeah. Called you up and talked to you.
45:56>> Or I called them. One of the two. Yeah.
45:59I you know I I remember talking to
46:02somebody but
46:04I'm thinking it was a man. I'm sure
46:07there's probably more men back then.
46:10>> Um
46:12>> so again that's I mean that's really all
46:15I can remember about that.
46:17>> Yeah.
46:19>> She shifts from I don't remember to a
46:22surprisingly specific rumor involving
46:24drugs, cocaine, and burglary, but
46:27nothing is concrete.
46:30Then she slips up. First, she says no
46:33detective ever contacted her. But
46:36seconds later, she's pretty sure she
46:38spoke to one.
46:40The details explode and the timeline
46:42gets messy. And that's exactly when
46:45investigators start paying attention.
46:48Let me get back uh to as far as when you
46:52said that uh John was calling you to to
46:55see you and during that time you felt
46:57that he was was felt he was either
47:00seeing her. Was he engaged or married?
47:01Did did you know?
47:03>> Could say you remember
47:04>> you know I don't know.
47:06>> Uhhuh.
47:06>> Um
47:07>> would he ever
47:08>> Well, let's see. My [clears throat]
47:09husband
47:09>> did it ever appear?
47:10>> Well, no. That would have been Scott
47:12moved in ' 93.
47:14So that would have been you said 86 or
47:1785 or something.
47:18>> Scott your only husband. You've never
47:19been married?
47:20>> No. Never been I got married in I think
47:2296. Oh no I no I got married in 96 but
47:25he moved in in 93.
47:26>> Mhm. But uh during that time that you
47:30were seeing John uh you know was he
47:33acting kind of you know kind of
47:34squirrely or kind of sneaking around
47:36when he'd hook up with you or anything
47:37like that? Does it make you think, hey?
47:40Yeah.
47:40>> He probably was. I mean
47:43>> I mean cuz from the impression I get
47:45you've known him a long time.
47:46>> Well, let's see
47:47>> from what early
47:48>> I met him in 78. No, I I met him in
47:51school. I started UCLA in 78.
47:53[clears throat]
47:53>> Um
47:54>> so you know him well
47:56during that period of time.
47:58>> Yeah. I mean was he acting squirrely?
48:02You know I don't even remember where he
48:04was living then. You know I
48:07>> Well, after
48:08>> I don't
48:08>> Well, let me ask you. After he hooked up
48:10with uh if he was living on Rosco or
48:12wherever else he was living,
48:14>> right?
48:15>> Well, after he hooked up with uh with
48:17Sherry, do you know uh where they were
48:20living?
48:21>> No, you asked me that already.
48:22>> Uhhuh.
48:23>> And I said, "Well, obviously they were
48:24living in Van I's division."
48:25>> Yeah. [laughter]
48:27>> Um
48:29I may have known.
48:30>> I mean, I you know, again, I you know,
48:32did he ever give me the address?
48:35Maybe. You know, I don't remember. I
48:38mean, I don't know
48:40>> cuz the only reason I'm asking you again
48:41is because as we've been talking, I know
48:43some stuff has come to you because
48:44you're like, "Oh, see,
48:45>> you know,
48:46>> so that's why I'm asking if you ever
48:48been to the house."
48:49>> And when you said Van Eyes division,
48:53you know, I'm just
48:59I'm sure he could have told me. I mean,
49:00he could have told me. He could have
49:01told me where he lived. Um,
49:06>> do you ever have gone there?
49:08>> I don't think I've ever gone there.
49:10That's what I'm saying. I don't I don't
49:12want to say no, I've never gone there
49:13and then you say, "Oh, I was at a
49:14party." I cuz I I I don't, you know, I
49:17don't think so.
49:18>> Yeah.
49:19>> Um, like I said, we've got these
49:21friends. We have different We have
49:22parties. Um, my house, their house. I I
49:28just don't think John ever came to
49:31again, you know, at one point because we
49:34we knew people from school together. I
49:37knew different people. He knew different
49:38people. I knew people that he knew from
49:40his work um you know that lived in the
49:43valley. Um
49:46you know,
49:48>> the questions remain simple, but the
49:51answers begin to slip away.
49:54Dates jump from the mid 1980s to 1993
49:57and 1996,
50:00and the focus shifts from J's behavior
50:02to mundane details like addresses and
50:05parties.
50:06The detectives circle back to one key
50:08question. Did she ever go to that house?
50:13The way she avoids a clear answer speaks
50:15volumes.
50:17So, as far as for social events or
50:18anything, I mean, it's
50:21>> I mean, you're not sure if you ever been
50:23to the house cuz
50:28>> But it's safe to say that would have
50:29been the only time like for something
50:31social.
50:33>> Yeah. If I went there for something
50:35social. Yeah. I mean,
50:36>> because I know you you went to talk to
50:38her at at the hospital uh regarding this
50:42issue with John to, you know, kind of
50:44like, hey, you know, what's going to
50:46happen here with this thing? But would
50:48this ever have followed up to her house
50:50when you went to talk to her and just
50:51say, hey, you know what?
50:52>> I I don't even know that I knew where
50:54they lived. I you know, that's what I'm
50:57saying. I don't if I knew where they
50:58lived and I'd been there if it was for
51:00something social I' I would I'm I'm and
51:04I can't see how many times I I saw her
51:06face to face. You know, he lived on
51:07Rosco. Did I ever see her there? I don't
51:10know. I mean, I may have seen her at his
51:13apartment on Rosco.
51:14>> Mhm.
51:15>> I may have met her there.
51:18You know, I I mean,
51:20>> but you didn't have any issues with her,
51:21right?
51:22>> No. I mean, you know, obviously if he
51:25was dating me and dating her, I probably
51:27said, "Hey, pick" or something, you
51:29know, you know, back [clears throat]
51:30then. Um,
51:33>> I can't say that we ever screamed or
51:35Yeah. You know, it's I mean, he was a
51:38pretty mellow guy,
51:39>> you know. Um, I think I was pretty
51:42mellow. I I don't I don't think we had
51:44some big huge blow up to say you know
51:47why we stopped dating or you know and I
51:50even think that when I was dating him I
51:51was probably like I said I was probably
51:53going out with other guys and he was
51:55probably going out with other girls you
51:57know I don't know
51:58>> I mean would you remember if she snapped
52:01on you and just like hey man it's my man
52:03you know you get leave him alone you
52:04know blah blah blah that kind of stuff
52:07>> you know
52:09would you remember an incident like that
52:10I mean cuz that would be like what
52:12>> well you know, and maybe that happened.
52:14I mean,
52:16gosh, I you know, it's been so long ago.
52:20I, you know, I just I mean, that's not
52:23ringing a bell.
52:24>> Um,
52:25>> I mean, cuz the times I've seen you
52:26around at our office.
52:27>> I'm crazy, [laughter]
52:28>> you know, but you're always kind of like
52:30real
52:31>> I mean, you seem kind of bubbly.
52:33>> Oh, I'm you know, people think I'm
52:34really hyper. Um, but I can I mean I can
52:37get I can get upset, you know, and and
52:40then I forget 5 seconds later, you know,
52:42you know how guys raz you and you go ah,
52:45you know, um I mean I've done that in
52:48the office, you know, but it's like and
52:50then I'm, you know, and then I'm, you
52:53know,
52:54>> uh, you know, I mean,
52:55>> water under the bridge.
52:56>> Yeah. I mean, it's like people think I'm
52:57crazy and then they think I'm crazy at
52:59home and I'm, you know, more I'm I'm a
53:01hyper person at work. I'm, you know, I
53:04enjoy my job. I get excited. I, you
53:06know, um I I enjoy the job. I've always
53:10enjoyed the job. Um
53:12>> she tries to soften the moment by
53:14painting herself as hyper, a little
53:17crazy, and quick to forget,
53:21almost like a built-in excuse if the
53:23details don't line up. The detectives
53:26don't [music] challenge her. They let
53:27her talk, keep it light, and continue
53:30collecting facts. The contrast is clear.
53:34She paints a confident self-portrait
53:36while the key points about visits,
53:38contact, and confrontation remain
53:41unclear.
53:42>> Well, you got a good gig. So,
53:44>> you know, um, so, you know, I, you know,
53:48I don't know. It's like, like I said,
53:50this stuff's been so long ago. Um, you
53:52know, I'm sure as soon as I walk out of
53:54here, I'll go, "Oh, shoot. I 25 things
53:57I'll remember." Um, you know,
53:59>> but you'll call us or I mean, you'll
54:00just come over to our desk and tell us.
54:01I mean, I don't know what else you need
54:03to know. Like I said, you know, we we
54:05knew friends together, a lot of the
54:07friends that, you know, that we
54:09socialized in the dorms, I would say, I
54:12mean, there was a group of us that
54:15um we were all really close. I mean,
54:17even this one guy, I was thinking of,
54:18you know, um Diana Basta. We were all
54:21really close. I haven't talked to her in
54:23a million years. Um
54:25>> Diana Basta being a friend of you and
54:27John's or
54:28>> Yeah, we all lived on the dorms on the
54:30dorms together. I don't know if she
54:31lived on the same we I'm trying to
54:33think. I think I know John lived on our
54:35floor because his roommate was Dave
54:37Newman. Dave Newman now is a big huge
54:39big shot whatever movie producer,
54:43director, something I don't know. Um
54:45>> and that was John's roommate.
54:46>> Yeah. And then the guys that lived
54:48across from me, um Jim Jascal and Roy
54:54Sakaboo Sakaboo, something like that. Um
54:56they lived across from me. Um, Diana
54:59Basta,
55:01I don't know if she lived on our floor.
55:03Maybe she was the RA.
55:05Um, Diane Sherman. Um, cuz I still
55:09remain friends with Diane Sherman. Um,
55:12not that I'm not friends with the other
55:13people. I just don't see them. Um,
55:16a girl named Smeita.
55:19Um, Sally,
55:23Kathleen, you know. So, we we were all
55:26on the floor. I mean, some of them were
55:28athletes, some of them weren't. You
55:29know, I said John played basketball, his
55:31brother played basketball, I played
55:32basketball at UCLA for two years. Um,
55:35one of the girls swam on the team, one
55:37was on the crew team. So, we all did
55:38stuff together. Um, and then I'd say
55:40after we all graduated, um, we went to
55:43weddings, you know, I went to weddings.
55:45Um,
55:46uh,
55:48>> but Sherry wasn't part of this circle.
55:50>> No, I don't even know how he how he met
55:52her. I don't even know where I mean, I
55:54don't know where he met her from. I
55:55don't even know. He told me where he met
55:57her from. I mean, he may have told me.
55:58I, you know, that's not ringing a bell.
56:02Um,
56:03and there was lots I mean, you know,
56:05there's just
56:06there was other people that knew other
56:08people, um, you know, that were friends
56:10of everybody's. Um,
56:15>> she keeps circling around timelines and
56:17names, and then the detectives drop a
56:20direct claim from Sherry's friends.
56:23There were problems between the two
56:25women because of Jon.
56:27That's when the mask slips. She doesn't
56:30deny or explain it. She freezes and
56:33pushes it away.
56:35Suddenly, everything becomes unclear.
56:40Why does a simple allegation affect her
56:42so deeply?
56:43>> You know,
56:45um I mean, I don't know what else to
56:47tell you. Well, one of the concerns I
56:48had is looking at some of the notes is
56:50uh some of Sherry's friends said that
56:54you and her were having a problem
56:57because of the John situation.
57:02>> Well, number one, I don't know who her
57:04friends are. Um cuz again, I don't I
57:08don't recall if he did tell me where he
57:10met her.
57:12I don't know even who these friends are.
57:14A problem. Like I said, if I spoke to
57:17her, I mean, I'll go on as far on as a
57:19limb. And I don't even want to say I
57:21spoke to her five times because that's
57:22probably not even true. I I I can't even
57:25remember. Um
57:27again, did I meet him at her when he,
57:29you know, he lived on Rosco for I think
57:32quite a while, but I couldn't tell you
57:33how long he lived on Rosco. And the only
57:35reason why I remember the place now is
57:36because it's like a huge dope dope place
57:39now where they, you know, it may have
57:40been back then, but you know, maybe we'
57:43have known back then. Um, I could have
57:45met her there. I could have, you know,
57:50>> you know, I don't even know that I met
57:52any of their friends. I you I don't I I
57:56I can't say that. I don't know that
57:58that's a true statement. Well, that's
57:59what I'm reading is that you guys had
58:02problems with each other and words are
58:03being exchanged and it's all relating to
58:06John.
58:08>> You know what? I I I I just I can't say.
58:12>> You can't say?
58:12>> No. I That doesn't even ring a bell. I
58:15mean
58:15>> I mean it seemed like Yeah. You would
58:17recall something if somebody's going off
58:18on you, right?
58:19>> I would think. I mean I would think I
58:23would think.
58:23>> Yeah. cuz it's
58:25>> But that's I you know
58:27>> cuz it seems like your relationship with
58:28John was kind of I mean you've known
58:32each other for a lot of years.
58:34>> Yeah. It was just kind of it was like
58:38>> but it doesn't seem to me from what
58:39you're telling me
58:40>> I mean we were never engaged. I mean it
58:42wasn't like we were planning to get
58:43married. Um you know it was like it it
58:46was
58:49I don't know how to describe it. I mean,
58:50>> would you say there wasn't a lot of
58:52drama in this relationship?
58:54>> Oh, no. I don't think there was drama.
58:56>> Okay.
58:56>> Yeah. I mean,
58:57>> that's why I'm asking as far as what the
58:58friends are saying in regards to this,
59:01you know, the problems that they're
59:02saying you were having with with Sherry.
59:05>> I mean, it seems like the relationship
59:07is just going on an even plane.
59:09>> That just I I that I don't have a
59:11recollection of that at all. No.
59:12>> No. And cuz from what you're telling me
59:15is when you guys met at the hospital,
59:18uh I mean you guys talked but it wasn't
59:20from what you recall confrontational
59:22think so
59:23>> from either side.
59:24>> No, I I mean I'm trying to you know turn
59:27my memory back you know and I'm trying I
59:30can't even can't even picture the you
59:33know picture the the conversation. I
59:35mean I can't even picture the
59:36conversation.
59:37>> Well let me ask you. I mean, at the
59:38hospital, it never got to the point
59:39where people are going, "Hey, hey, you
59:40know, go to everybody go to your own
59:42culinary type of thing."
59:44>> I don't think so.
59:45>> Nothing like that.
59:45>> I don't think so. I mean, I really
59:47don't. I mean, if you you know, if you
59:49say people said that, that's not ringing
59:51a bell to me at all. I mean, it's not I
59:53mean, that that's not ringing a bell.
59:55>> Was there ever a time when you and
59:57Sherry were talking and John had to
59:59maybe like, "Okay, you guys relax, you
1:00:01know, or anything like that?"
1:00:03>> I don't think so.
1:00:05about, you know, ever going to her house
1:00:07and having a dispute like that.
1:00:10>> You know, I'm just if I met her ever at
1:00:14his apartment, [clears throat] maybe I
1:00:16mean, we could have met I could have met
1:00:18at her apartment. I'm thinking that the
1:00:22hospital thing that sounds familiar that
1:00:24I I met her there.
1:00:28I just can't say that I've ever again,
1:00:30was I there with other people? I don't I
1:00:33I it I don't know. Um I don't think I
1:00:37ever met her there or him there. Um
1:00:41meaning one or the other. I don't think
1:00:43so. I really I just I can't I don't
1:00:47think so
1:00:47>> cuz I mean I know the way my wife is at
1:00:50our house, she wouldn't want my own
1:00:51girlfriends there, you know. So, I don't
1:00:53know if maybe she had the same mentality
1:00:56towards you if as far as you ever being
1:00:58there
1:00:59>> or being welcome there, you know,
1:01:00because it's
1:01:01>> You know what? If somebody said I was
1:01:03there when they were there, then that's
1:01:05possible. But I just I I don't recall. I
1:01:08mean, I don't think so. I don't I It's
1:01:10not sounding familiar.
1:01:12>> Yeah. Cuz I guess basically what I'm
1:01:13asking is, you know, were you ever
1:01:15welcome to the house? Like, you know,
1:01:16hey
1:01:16>> Oh, come over.
1:01:17>> Yeah, come on over. We're having a
1:01:18barbecue, you know,
1:01:21a dinner party. Christmas party or
1:01:23whatever.
1:01:24>> I don't know.
1:01:26>> I'm just trying to think.
1:01:29>> They shift from small talk to a serious
1:01:31claim from old notes.
1:01:34Sherry's friends said there was conflict
1:01:36between the two women because of John.
1:01:40Instead of a denial, the answer becomes
1:01:42a maze of locations, timelines, and
1:01:46details,
1:01:47but no claim.
1:01:50The detectives repeat the point. testing
1:01:52the story.
1:01:54Then a shift,
1:01:57nothing confrontational, but then a
1:01:59hesitant I think so when asked if John
1:02:03ever calmed things down.
1:02:06You know, like I said, because there was
1:02:07so many of us that the two Dian's, um,
1:02:11Jim Jascal, Roy, um, Smeita, the
1:02:14scalita, another friend of ours, Beth, I
1:02:18>> she pass, it seems like everybody I know
1:02:20pass is passing away.
1:02:22>> Um, she passed away. She was a child
1:02:24diabetic and and got very ill. Um, we
1:02:27would all socialize. Um, like I said, I
1:02:30don't think John ever,
1:02:32>> it's hard, I don't want to say he never
1:02:33socialized with us. Um,
1:02:38you know, it it's been I I'd have to go
1:02:39almost go back and look at pictures
1:02:41because I take pictures. I mean, I
1:02:43usually when I have I go to functions, I
1:02:45have 10,000 pictures. Okay. I'm a
1:02:48picture nut.
1:02:51>> Let me ask when you were seeing John,
1:02:52would you I take it he would pick you up
1:02:55in his car, you go in her, you know,
1:02:56your car, things of that nature when you
1:02:59guys would go out.
1:03:01>> Well, yeah. I mean,
1:03:02>> do you remember what he what he drove?
1:03:06Well, I know at one time he drove either
1:03:08a 240 or 260Z.
1:03:11[laughter]
1:03:11>> Any other cars that stand out in your
1:03:13mind?
1:03:25>> I don't know how long you drove that 240
1:03:27or 260Z for. Um, and the only reason I
1:03:30say that is cuz I think I may have a
1:03:33picture of it, um, with him in it. Um,
1:03:38>> what kind of car did you have back then?
1:03:41>> Let's see. What year?
1:03:44>> Or are you like one of those young cops
1:03:45of like, oh, I got a paycheck and bought
1:03:46a new car?
1:03:47>> No, no, no. I've only had like a few
1:03:49cars in my whole life.
1:03:50>> So, what'd you have when you came on the
1:03:51job?
1:03:56>> Okay. Okay. Well, my first car was a 68
1:03:57Chevel.
1:04:0068 Chevel
1:04:03and then I had
1:04:06a Toyota
1:04:13some kind of a Toyota.
1:04:14>> Mhm.
1:04:15>> Um
1:04:16hatchback, but I forget what the name of
1:04:18it was. Um
1:04:20>> like a Corolla or Tursel or
1:04:22>> Tcel,
1:04:23>> something like that.
1:04:24>> Tursel.
1:04:24>> Yeah. And then I had my truck.
1:04:27>> Do you ever have any problems with your
1:04:28cars?
1:04:32>> Like what?
1:04:33>> Just anything in general. Car wrecks,
1:04:35anything stolen?
1:04:36>> Yeah. No, my car has never been stolen.
1:04:38Oh, no. Crashed, hit and run. Um
1:04:46um
1:04:48hit I mean my tercel was hit and run.
1:04:50Again, I got I got pictures of the hit
1:04:51and runs. Um, yeah. I don't think any of
1:04:54my cars had ever been stolen. No, my
1:04:57cars haven't been stolen.
1:05:00>> After probing the sensitive allegation,
1:05:03the detectives shift to low stakes
1:05:05questions about cars, photos, and old
1:05:08routines. It's a reset to reduce
1:05:11tension, rebuild cooperation, and
1:05:14capture how she speaks when the topic
1:05:16feels safe. These seemingly boring
1:05:19details also provide a foundation for
1:05:21the timeline, offering small facts that
1:05:24can be verified later. Once the rhythm
1:05:27is steady again, they can return to the
1:05:30core issue with more leverage.
1:05:32>> Broken into
1:05:35um
1:05:35>> none of that, huh?
1:05:36>> Oh, yeah. They my cars have been broken
1:05:38into. Um
1:05:42you know, but no cars have ever been
1:05:45stolen.
1:05:45>> Mhm.
1:05:48How long? Well, when tell me about this
1:05:50uh car getting broken into.
1:05:53>> Well, my car has been broken into
1:05:54several times.
1:05:55>> Oh, really?
1:05:57Did you ever lose anything or
1:05:59>> Yeah, now that you mention it. Let's
1:06:03see.
1:06:05I had a gun that was stolen.
1:06:07>> Mhm.
1:06:08>> Um I had other stuff that was stolen.
1:06:10>> Not your duty gun, was it?
1:06:12>> No. Oh,
1:06:13>> that's good. Um,
1:06:15>> has it ever recovered?
1:06:16>> I don't No. No. I don't think so. Not
1:06:19that I know of.
1:06:20>> Never been notified?
1:06:21>> No. Car's been broken into?
1:06:24>> Yeah. Several times.
1:06:25>> Where did that happen? When your gun was
1:06:27taken.
1:06:33>> Trying to remember.
1:06:36I'm sure you guys must know. Um,
1:06:41cuz my car was broken into in Ventura.
1:06:47I think in Santa Monica. I have
1:06:48relatives that live in Santa Monica and
1:06:50Venice. Um,
1:06:52>> who lives there?
1:06:53>> My uncle. Well, I I had several uncles.
1:06:56Um,
1:07:00yeah. Could have been Santa Monica. Um,
1:07:03Venice. [clears throat]
1:07:04My My car's broken into in Ventura
1:07:06before.
1:07:07>> So,
1:07:09is your mom still around or
1:07:11>> Mhm.
1:07:11>> Yeah. your dad.
1:07:13>> Yeah, but I don't really have much of a
1:07:16relationship with my dad.
1:07:19>> So, I couldn't tell you where he lives
1:07:21if you're if you want to [clears throat]
1:07:22know.
1:07:22>> Oh, really?
1:07:23>> No.
1:07:25>> Yeah. Couldn't tell you.
1:07:27>> Well, like I said, as we were looking at
1:07:30the case and you know, we had read the
1:07:32notes as far as from u Sherry's friends
1:07:36saying you you guys had problems or
1:07:39words. and they got heated.
1:07:41You know, the reason we're asking you is
1:07:43they had mentioned that an incident at
1:07:45her work had occurred and they've also
1:07:48told us that an incident at her house
1:07:49occurred.
1:07:53>> You know what?
1:07:54>> And this is at her house during the
1:07:55period of time that they're married.
1:08:00>> That's just not sounding familiar at
1:08:01all. I mean I you know what I
1:08:05that's just not sound I again if someone
1:08:08says that I was at her house and I had
1:08:10an incident with her
1:08:12you know I that just doesn't sound I I
1:08:15you know was John there did John say
1:08:17this happened because and other people
1:08:19were there I I just I don't recall I
1:08:22mean it just doesn't sound you know
1:08:24familiar
1:08:25>> and this is an incident where you showed
1:08:27up you weren't supposed to show up and
1:08:32things got heated
1:08:33>> at his house.
1:08:34>> Yeah.
1:08:37>> That I you know I that just doesn't
1:08:40sound familiar. I mean
1:08:41>> nothing.
1:08:41>> No.
1:08:42>> I you know it's not sounding familiar.
1:08:45>> So
1:08:45>> not at all.
1:08:46>> Now you're saying not familiar cuz it's
1:08:47just don't you remember or it's just
1:08:50>> you know what I would have then I'd have
1:08:51to say I don't remember cuz I don't
1:08:53remember. I that doesn't sound familiar.
1:08:55I
1:08:56>> I mean, would you remember something
1:08:58like that in your life if
1:08:59>> Well, I would think, but
1:09:00>> some sort of drama involving, you know,
1:09:02the other woman type of thing.
1:09:04>> Did you ever fight with her?
1:09:06>> You mean like we fought?
1:09:07>> Yeah. Did you ever duke it out with her?
1:09:09>> No, I don't think so. I mean,
1:09:11>> you'd remember that, right? That would
1:09:13be pretty
1:09:14>> Yeah, I would think so. I mean,
1:09:15>> pretty specific.
1:09:16>> Yeah, like I said, I mean, obviously
1:09:20I, you know, I mean, it just doesn't
1:09:23sound familiar.
1:09:24I mean I mean what are they saying? So I
1:09:26I I fought with her. So So now I mean I
1:09:29I I get getting the jump or the leap.
1:09:33>> They return to the core allegation. Two
1:09:36incidents at two locations, both
1:09:39pointing back to Stephanie.
1:09:42Her posture stiffens and her face
1:09:44freezes as she realizes this isn't
1:09:47speculation.
1:09:49The detectives remain calm and focus the
1:09:51question, cutting off [music] any
1:09:53opportunity for diversion. If this were
1:09:56just harmless history, why does it
1:09:58suddenly seem like she's bracing for
1:10:00impact?
1:10:01>> Excuse me. I haven't eaten. Um, they're
1:10:04saying, "Okay, I fought with her, so I
1:10:05must have killed her." I mean, come on.
1:10:07I mean, that's, [snorts] you know,
1:10:11I don't even know who these people are.
1:10:12I I can't even say I met any of these
1:10:14people. I mean, that's it's insane. I I
1:10:17if it happened, I honestly don't
1:10:19remember it. That's all I can tell you.
1:10:22I mean
1:10:23>> I mean but I don't know. I mean would it
1:10:26be something you would remember? I mean
1:10:27because it's I don't know if any other
1:10:30intense incidents in your life that have
1:10:32occurred. I mean you'd recall those,
1:10:33right? I mean
1:10:34>> well
1:10:35>> like a use of force at work or a car
1:10:37crash, something you're involved in,
1:10:39you'd be like remember.
1:10:39>> You would think I would remember. I mean
1:10:41I would think if it was something that
1:10:43crazy. I mean, I I I can't say you say
1:10:46how many fights have you gotten into,
1:10:47you know, in your life,
1:10:50>> you know? I mean, a few at work.
1:10:52>> Well, fights at work are kind of
1:10:53different cuz we've all had uses of
1:10:55force or whatever, but I mean,
1:10:56>> I didn't even have even a lot of those.
1:10:57I mean, but if you're if you're
1:10:59actually, you know,
1:11:00>> I mean, I've played
1:11:00>> like if if Dan and I got mad at each
1:11:02other and we threw blows in the squad
1:11:04room, I mean, 20 years later, I would
1:11:05remember it. I mean,
1:11:07>> I would think I would remember it, but
1:11:08that's that's what I'm saying. That's
1:11:09not sounding familiar to me at all. I
1:11:12mean, I
1:11:13>> Let me ask you. I mean, throughout your
1:11:15life,
1:11:18you know, would you remember the number
1:11:19of fights you've been involved in? And I
1:11:21don't mean kind of like a bump or
1:11:23something, just a a physical fight where
1:11:24you
1:11:26everybody's hitting each other,
1:11:27scratching, pulling, you know, whatever.
1:11:30>> Maybe. I mean, I can't say I've been in
1:11:32a lot. You know, I played sports.
1:11:34>> Yeah.
1:11:35>> You know, you get into scuffles there
1:11:36and
1:11:38>> um
1:11:39>> and you recall some of those, right? I
1:11:40mean, just
1:11:41>> Yeah, I can recall some of them.
1:11:43>> Yeah, games get in tabs.
1:11:44>> But like I said, this you saying this
1:11:46this is just not ringing a bell. I mean,
1:11:49but you know, I don't know what to tell
1:11:51you. It's It's just That's just not
1:11:53ringing a bell to me.
1:11:55>> It'd be something
1:11:56>> I would think I would remember. I mean,
1:11:58I'm
1:11:59>> If you're in this, too.
1:12:00>> If you're in this other girl's house and
1:12:02words are exchanged, I mean, you figure
1:12:04you'd recall.
1:12:05>> I would think.
1:12:07>> Especially if they got physical, right?
1:12:08Well, I would think.
1:12:10>> And it's relating to, you know, a guy
1:12:13that you were dating, but she's dating
1:12:15now, you know, and it's just like a
1:12:16whole
1:12:17>> love triangle type of thing. I mean, you
1:12:19figure you'd remember that, right?
1:12:20>> Well, I would think.
1:12:25>> The push back intensifies here because
1:12:27the question is no longer small. It's
1:12:30about a scene that would leave a lasting
1:12:32impression on anyone.
1:12:34Instead of details, there's outrage and
1:12:37disbelief,
1:12:39which tell their own story.
1:12:42The detectives respond by grounding the
1:12:44conversation in real life intensity,
1:12:47forcing the statement to either make
1:12:49sense or fall apart.
1:12:51>> So,
1:12:54>> I mean, I don't want to tell you.
1:12:55>> Yeah. No, cuz I'm I mean, I'm trying to
1:12:58I'm looking at the notes and these
1:13:00people are kind of I mean, they're
1:13:02pointing the finger at you. Well,
1:13:04>> and
1:13:05>> I mean that's not ringing a bell to me.
1:13:08[clears throat] So,
1:13:09>> you know, I don't know, you know, it's
1:13:13[clears throat]
1:13:14I don't know what to tell you. I mean,
1:13:15that just sounds crazy to me.
1:13:17>> Yeah. So, you off hand, you don't recall
1:13:19ever going into her house and having
1:13:21words and physically,
1:13:23you know?
1:13:24>> No.
1:13:24>> Attacking her, her attacking you?
1:13:27>> No.
1:13:27>> Nothing like that?
1:13:28>> No. I mean, that's No,
1:13:30>> nothing.
1:13:31>> No, no.
1:13:33Not at all.
1:13:34>> Okay.
1:13:36Well, on some of the uh on this case,
1:13:39you know, this is occurred in ' 86,
1:13:43right? Uh detectives process the scene,
1:13:46things of that nature. Uh they did
1:13:49fingerprints and all that stuff. You
1:13:50know, well, you know, the standard
1:13:51stuff. You didn't been doing this longer
1:13:53than I have.
1:13:54>> Uh well, not about that. I got 26 years
1:13:57on
1:13:58>> going on 26.
1:13:59>> 19. So, but
1:14:03you know, as they processed everything,
1:14:05uh, they did the best they could at that
1:14:06time and they looked at a lot of a lot
1:14:08of people and different things in this
1:14:09case. And you're right.
1:14:11>> I mean, if you guys are claiming that
1:14:12I'm a suspect, then, you know, I I got a
1:14:14problem with, you know, with that.
1:14:16>> Okay.
1:14:17>> Okay. So, you know, if you're if you're
1:14:20doing this as an interrogation, you're
1:14:22saying, "Hey, I'm a suspect." Well, now
1:14:24I got a problem with, you know, now
1:14:26you're accusing me of this. Is that what
1:14:28you're Is that what you're saying?
1:14:30>> We're trying to figure out what
1:14:31happened, Stephanie.
1:14:33>> Well, I'm I was, you know, I'm just
1:14:35saying,
1:14:37you know, would I need to get a lawyer
1:14:39if you're accusing me of,
1:14:40>> you know,
1:14:41>> you don't have to I mean, you know,
1:14:42you're here of your own free will. I
1:14:44mean,
1:14:44>> Well, I know, but
1:14:45>> you know, you're not you're not under
1:14:46arrest. You can walk out when
1:14:47>> you can leave whenever you like.
1:14:48>> Well, you know, I'm trying to give you
1:14:51some background of, you know, how I knew
1:14:52him. And now you're telling me that some
1:14:55somebody's saying that we had this big
1:14:57old fight and I don't even know what
1:14:59you're talking about. Um, you know, and
1:15:01I don't want to, you know, get in
1:15:02trouble for something that I didn't even
1:15:04do or you're saying I did something.
1:15:07>> Okay.
1:15:07>> We understand.
1:15:09>> I mean, how would you guys like it if
1:15:10the tables were turned on you?
1:15:12>> I understand. No,
1:15:13>> no, that's what we're telling you. I
1:15:14mean, you're free to go whenever you
1:15:15[clears throat] want. If if this makes
1:15:16you uncomfortable and you want to
1:15:18>> Now you're starting to make me
1:15:19uncomfortable.
1:15:21This is where the conversation stops
1:15:23being friendly and starts being
1:15:25forensic.
1:15:27The detectives calmly spell out that the
1:15:29file contains claims placing her at the
1:15:31center of a serious incident.
1:15:34And they're verifying it like it
1:15:36matters. She looks caught off guard
1:15:39because the room suddenly feels smaller.
1:15:42The questions aren't about memories
1:15:43anymore. They're about responsibility.
1:15:46The thing is, I mean, detectives did
1:15:48what they could at that time on the
1:15:50crime scene. Okay. And the burglary
1:15:51thing you're talking about, that is an
1:15:53angle that they looked at. I go, but now
1:15:55we're looking at everything else on the
1:15:56case cuz nobody was ever arrested on the
1:15:58case.
1:15:59>> I I don't know that or not.
1:16:02>> Okay. Now, what we'd like to do is
1:16:06obviously you know about all the DNA
1:16:07stuff and things of the nature that you
1:16:09know gets done on cases nowadays. You
1:16:11know, if we asked you for a DNA swab,
1:16:14would you be willing to give us one?
1:16:15Maybe
1:16:17because now now now
1:16:20>> because now
1:16:20>> now I'm thinking I probably need to talk
1:16:22to a lawyer.
1:16:23>> Okay.
1:16:24>> I mean,
1:16:25>> well,
1:16:26>> I cuz I know how this stuff works. Okay,
1:16:27don't get me wrong. You're right. I have
1:16:29been doing this a long time and and I
1:16:30wish I had been recording this because
1:16:32because now it sounds like, you know,
1:16:34there's,
1:16:36>> you know, you're selling these people
1:16:37saying I'm a fighting with her and now
1:16:39it sounds like you're trying to, you
1:16:40know, I've been doing this a long time.
1:16:42>> Yeah, we know.
1:16:43>> Okay. And and now it almost sounds like
1:16:45you're trying to pin something on me
1:16:47now. I I got that sense.
1:16:48>> Well, what it gets to on these on these
1:16:50cases, and you know it as well as I do,
1:16:51our job is to identify and eliminate.
1:16:53>> I can't believe this.
1:16:55>> The detectives stopped considering her
1:16:57story as context and suspect her. They
1:17:01elicit a clear denial, then introduce a
1:17:04forensic step framed as routine
1:17:07elimination to see if she remains
1:17:09cooperative when the stakes become
1:17:11measurable. Her hesitation reveals her
1:17:15true intentions, shifting the
1:17:17conversation from explaining the past to
1:17:19protecting the present.
1:17:20>> So, if we ask you to the point to give
1:17:22us a DNA sample, a bugal swab, so we can
1:17:26identify or eliminate you, would you be
1:17:29willing to do that?
1:17:30>> Maybe.
1:17:31>> Cuz I know this. I I I I
1:17:33>> That's where we're at, too. I mean,
1:17:35because right now, from looking at the
1:17:38evidence, it's, you know, it's possible
1:17:40we may have some DNA at the location.
1:17:42That's great.
1:17:43>> And [clears throat]
1:17:45we're going to do what we can to try to
1:17:46put this thing together. And your name's
1:17:49in the book. These people are pointing
1:17:51at you for whatever reason.
1:17:53>> I don't know why. That's just crazy. I
1:17:55mean, that's just that's absolutely
1:17:56crazy.
1:17:57>> And it would be irresponsible on our
1:18:00part not to look at it.
1:18:01>> I know. You guys have to do your job.
1:18:03And I guess I'm going to have to contact
1:18:04somebody. So
1:18:06>> that's fair.
1:18:06>> I mean, because I know how this stuff
1:18:08works. I mean, I I I I I
1:18:12just can't believe it.
1:18:13>> That's I mean, we we understand that. I
1:18:14mean, if we were in your position, I
1:18:16mean, we would feel the same way.
1:18:18>> I I just can't even believe it. I mean,
1:18:20it's just I mean, I'm shocked. I'm
1:18:23really shocked
1:18:24>> that somebody would be blame saying that
1:18:25I did this. I mean, we had a fight and
1:18:27so I went and killed her. I mean, come
1:18:29on.
1:18:29>> Well,
1:18:30>> that's
1:18:32>> okay. All right.
1:18:33>> Well, thanks for giving me the courtesy.
1:18:35I appreciate it.
1:18:36>> Thanks for your time.
1:18:37>> Yeah. Thank you. All right, Stephanie,
1:18:39take care.
1:18:39>> All right,
1:19:02>> this is just absolutely crazy.
1:19:04>> I want to see it, Stephanie.
1:19:07>> This is insane. Okay,
1:19:16>> give me one sec.
1:19:21>> Okay,
1:19:22Stephanie, you know you have the right
1:19:24to remain silent. Do you understand?
1:19:25>> Yes.
1:19:26>> Anything you say may be used against you
1:19:28in court. Do you understand?
1:19:29>> Yes.
1:19:30>> You have the right to the presence of an
1:19:31attorney before and during any
1:19:32questioning. Do you understand?
1:19:33>> Yes. If you cannot afford an attorney,
1:19:35one will be appointed for you free of
1:19:37charge before any questioning if you
1:19:38want. Do you understand?
1:19:40>> Yes.
1:19:40>> Do you want to talk to us right now?
1:19:42>> No.
1:19:43>> Okay.
1:19:44>> All right. Okay.
1:19:44>> This is crazy.
1:19:46>> This is I'm like I'm like in shock. I'm
1:19:49totally in shock.
1:19:57After the interview, Stephanie Lazarus
1:19:59was arrested and the case finally
1:20:02transitioned from suspicion to proof.
1:20:06Investigators collected a DNA sample
1:20:08from Lazarus and compared it to
1:20:10biological evidence preserved from the
1:20:121986 crime scene. A bite mark found on
1:20:16Sher Rasmuson.
1:20:19The profiles matched and the decades old
1:20:21cold case suddenly had a direct forensic
1:20:24link. The evidence [music] pointed to
1:20:26something violent and personal.
1:20:29Sher Rasmusen had been [music] found
1:20:31beaten and shot in her condo, and the
1:20:34bite mark was the detail that science
1:20:36could finally speak [music] for.
1:20:39From there, the timeline tightened into
1:20:42a courtroom story.
1:20:45Years after the arrest, the case went to
1:20:47trial.
1:20:49And in 2012, a jury convicted Stephanie
1:20:52Lazarus of [music] firstdegree murder.
1:20:55She was sentenced to 27 years to life,
1:20:58meaning she must serve at least 27 years
1:21:01before she can be considered for parole.
1:21:02[music]
1:21:03This closed one of the Los Angeles
1:21:05Police Department's most unsettling cold
1:21:08cases, solving a homicide long after it
1:21:11occurred with evidence that never
1:21:12disappeared.
1:21:16What are your thoughts on this case? Is
1:21:18there a detail that still doesn't add up
1:21:20or a question you can't let go of? Share
1:21:23your thoughts in the [music] comments.
1:21:25If you want more cases like this one,
1:21:28follow the True Case Investigator. And
1:21:31remember, the truth is never simple.

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of A Detective Haunted By Her Past | Stephanie Lazarus Interrogation by True Case Investigator, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 14,859 words across 2,338 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.