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"A Criminal Injustice" part 1 of 2 - The Marty Tankleff Story (tcbradio interview audio only) — Transcript

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0:02[Music]
0:13What I really
0:16need some kind of
0:23affection that I
0:27have this little infection
0:30Welcome everybody to Taking Care of
0:32Business. Thank you for listening. You
0:35may be listening to us at
0:37tcbradio.com. You may be catching us on
0:3989.7 FM. You may be catching us on
0:42iTunes or or at
0:45tcbradio.mmyodcast.com. But wherever
0:47you're listening to us, this is a show
0:49not to be missed and you need to tell
0:52people that this is one of the best
0:53shows that you're going to catch on the
0:54radio. We have a phenomenal subject and
0:57phenomenal guest. First of all, welcome
0:59to my co-host, Paul Solomon, attorney of
1:01law as well. I'm Hello everyone and
1:03thank you for the emails. And I'm
1:05Richard Solomon, your host, attorney.
1:07And I actually have uh the authors of a
1:09book called A Criminal Injustice. Let me
1:12tell you something. I'm holding it right
1:13here. This book is so well written and
1:16and I can I can attest to that because I
1:18actually know how to write a little bit.
1:20And uh this book is so well written. A
1:22true crime, a false confession and the
1:25fight to free Marty Tankliff uh by
1:27Richard Fersman and J Sal Peter. Uh this
1:31book is once you hold on to this book
1:34and you start reading, I guarantee you
1:36that at nighttime you will struggle to
1:39stay awake no matter how tired you are
1:41because the book is so compelling. Um
1:44you have to read this. um a
1:47criminaljustice.com published by
1:49RandomHouse. And let's let's let's
1:51introduce our guest. First of all, thank
1:53you for for being with us and uh
1:54spending your precious time with us. So
1:56Jay, uh welcome to the show. Tell us a
1:58little bit about yourself. Thanks for
1:59having us and thank you for that
2:00terrific plug on the book. I mean, and
2:02it was honest, right? Right. The best
2:04thing was 100% the truth. I love it
2:06because because the book really talks
2:08about a lot of things that weren't
2:09really truthful back in time. That's
2:11true. And still going on today, matter
2:13of fact, and we'll get into that later
2:14on. on Suffach County. But as you said,
2:17the name is Jay Salp Peter. I'm a
2:19retired New York City detective. I
2:21retired from the New York Police
2:22Department in
2:231991. And then I went to become a
2:26private investigator. And uh it it's
2:28been a wonderful career. I love
2:30investigating. I, you know, I've been
2:32lucky enough to get some pretty good
2:34cases that, you know, I've traveled all
2:36over, but there's never been a case like
2:38the one case criminal justice describes,
2:41the Martin Tankliff case. On December
2:4421st, 2000, I received a letter from
2:47Marty Tankliff from prison asking me to
2:49help him and become, you know, work as
2:51his private investigator also for free.
2:54Now, now I remember seeing that. Now, at
2:56what point in the timeline would you
2:59contact? Was it Was it after the
3:01conviction? Oh, many years after the
3:03conviction. Well, I think that's really
3:04important to note because um Well, Mart
3:07Marty had been in jail for approximately
3:0917 18 years. Is that correct, Rich? At
3:12that point, he Well, just 10 at that
3:14point. 10 or 11. Yeah. Right. So, you
3:17know, he contacted me. He wanted me to
3:19work as his private investigator. And I
3:21said, "Jesus, Monty Tankliff, I remember
3:24that case." and uh I met with his family
3:28and I decided to take a look at the
3:30case. December 21st, 2000, he wrote to
3:33me. On December 21st, 2007, the appellet
3:36court overturned his conviction. And the
3:397-year journey for me, you know, was not
3:42as, you know, not as long as Marty's
3:44journey, but it was a it was an
3:46unbelievable ride. In a million years, I
3:49could never expect what I was going to
3:51go through, the people I was going to
3:52meet. The people I had the opportunity
3:54to work with, which were Marty's
3:56wonderful defense attorney, Steven
3:58Brager, Bruce Bquette, Bar Barry
4:01Pollock, and there's about 40 more, and
4:03I I don't think we have enough time for
4:04me to name Marty's uh legal team. Well,
4:07if this is really good, what we'll do is
4:09we'll spill into another hour. Sounds
4:11good to me. So, Rich, tell us about your
4:13your involvement here. Well, I'm a I'm a
4:16journalist, writer, uh author. I worked
4:19at News Day for 16 years. Left there in
4:221995 to write books. Um and this book
4:26came along uh in 2003. Uh I remembered
4:30the case from the late 80s. I had been a
4:33News Day, although I hadn't covered the
4:35story. So, I kind of followed it as as
4:37any other reader and kind of casually
4:40and figured that Marty Tankliffe was
4:42guilty. And so I always had this concept
4:45of him, you know, you hear the name
4:46Marty Tankliff, you think, you know, the
4:48psychotic uh rich kid, you know, who who
4:51slaughters slaughters his parents
4:53because he didn't didn't like his car,
4:55you know, and and uh that was seared
4:58into I think our collective memories on
5:00Long Island. And when uh in 2003 I
5:04started to read in News Day, my former
5:07uh home that new new evidence, new
5:10witnesses were coming forward and it was
5:12back in court and it looked like he may
5:15not be guilty. I was completely just
5:18bowled over by the idea that everything
5:21I thought was may not be true and the
5:23fact that this this kid, no longer a
5:25kid, might have been in prison all these
5:27years for something he didn't do. And um
5:30I followed the stories. I I noticed the
5:33name J Sal Peter and met him a few
5:36months later when I went down to the
5:38courthouse during the hearings to sort
5:39of scout out a possible book out at
5:41Riverhead and uh met Jay and um did not
5:47intend if I was going to go ahead and do
5:48a book, I didn't intend to write it with
5:50anybody involved in the case. But we
5:53began to talk spent over the la next few
5:56months. Um, and I realized that uh the
5:59book would be much better if I worked
6:02with Jay because he had this, you know,
6:04the the the heart of the story in terms
6:06of uh coming back into court and getting
6:09the the drive to get Marty out. Now
6:10remember, this was late 2004. It was not
6:14at all clear that Jay and the attorneys
6:17were going to get him out. Um, so for me
6:19as a journalist, I got to sort of be in
6:22on a story that was still unfolding and
6:24it would go on for several more years.
6:25So I had this sort of inside look and I
6:28was able to write from the inside and
6:31uh, you know, it turned out to be a a
6:32great collaboration between Jay and I. I
6:35I got to ask a question because this was
6:37a compelling part of the book for me.
6:39You're in jail. Yeah. You have the
6:41support of your
6:43family. You are
6:45convicted. You make all the appeals. You
6:48do everything. All you see is an uphill
6:50battle. You're in jail for more and more
6:52years. You're more more and more cut off
6:54from society, information, etc. How do
6:58you actually keep how did Marty keep
7:00hope going, optimism, the fight when it
7:04just seemed so, you know, like like so
7:06insurmountable? How did he rally? I
7:09mean, you talk a lot about him in the
7:10book as a person, and he seemed to have
7:12be a person of at least optimism despite
7:15sort of the the conditions. And I
7:17remember reading somewhere in the book
7:18where he says like he didn't want to
7:21make his jail cell too permanent. He
7:23didn't want to make it like a home.
7:24Yeah. Like a home because that's like
7:25almost conceding that Marty was
7:28visiting. And that's that was Marty's
7:30attitude. I I have to tell you he's the
7:33most unique human being I have ever met.
7:36The the strongest mentally is be is
7:39beyond belief the strength that he had.
7:41Every day that Marty woke up was another
7:44day for Marty to work on his defense. He
7:46worked in the law library. I will
7:48guarantee you I could bring Marty
7:50Tankliff to your office. He will teach
7:52you law. We can always use the help,
7:54right? You know, and believe me, someday
7:56he might be opening up a firm with him.
7:58Every day Marty wrote letters to
8:02everyone, not only to private
8:03investigators, to retire judges, to
8:07lawyers, people that he anyone with
8:09regards to innocence. Barry Sheekch,
8:12anyone he could find received a letter.
8:15hundreds of thousands of letters which
8:17he actually logged. I mean, it's an
8:20amazing story on a manual typewriter, no
8:22less, for for in the earlier years. And
8:24I have to tell you, when you receive I
8:26received other letters from inmates
8:28after, you know, Marty contacted me and
8:30as soon as I would open them up, I would
8:32know if Marty had a handle on it because
8:35the writing, I mean, the the words, I
8:38mean, you know where it came from. But
8:41Marty is unique. Uh, and and thank God
8:44he's back in society where he should
8:47never have left. I think we're going to
8:49see such a productive member joining
8:51coming back to our society and he's
8:53going to be wonderful for everyone. What
8:55was his source of strength? I mean in
8:57one day he's not only an orphan but he's
9:00accused of murdering the very people who
9:02nurtured and sustained him and he loved
9:04him uh from all accounts quite dearly.
9:08How do you how do you keep where was his
9:10inspiration? Where did he where did he
9:11get his strength from? I hear that you
9:13he had it but where did it come from? I
9:15think that, you know, I didn't know
9:17Marty, you know, in until he contacted
9:20me many years later, you know, in in
9:222001. But if if you look at the history
9:24of Marty's family and now knowing Marty,
9:28I think the drive comes from his father,
9:30Seymour. I mean, Seymour was a very
9:32aggressive man, a very good business
9:35person. And Marty has a lot of those
9:37qualities. Marty is far from shy, that I
9:40will tell you. And and that's why, you
9:42know, he is here today. He's he's
9:44terrific and I get he gets it from his
9:46father. I believe you you are listening
9:48to taking care of business broadcasting
9:50from the Abrams Communication on the
9:52campus of CB CW Post College. This is
9:55Richard Solomon 89.7 FM
9:58tcbradio.com and
10:00tcbradio.mmypodcast.com and iTunes and
10:02all kinds of other great places. Rich,
10:04you wanted to say something? Oh, I was
10:06just going to add that uh that that when
10:09I first met Marty uh in it was actually
10:12in the Nassau County Jail during the
10:14hearing. That's where he was being
10:16housed during the hearing. Uh uh it was
10:21he was buoyant and um personable and
10:26just it just uh the whole setting was
10:29just out of sync with the personality
10:32that I saw. And then I uh then he was
10:34sent back upstate to prison when the uh
10:36when the first round of the appeal uh
10:38was rejected and saw him at in at the
10:41real prison upstate, you know, the you
10:43know the Gothic medieval kind of looking
10:45the one the one where Syracuse is. Yeah.
10:47Right. Um and uh but still you know the
10:50same uh there was he has something in
10:53him and I to this day I don't know what
10:55it is that allowed him to to get to get
11:00up every day and not only survive but to
11:03do something you know that was
11:04eventually going to lead to his release.
11:07And uh uh it it really is uh it was
11:10quite amazing to to to to talk to him
11:13one-on-one in that setting in the prison
11:16uh you know seeing all the others around
11:18him that were you know what's wrong with
11:20this picture. You know Rich once once
11:22our hearing started when we were granted
11:24the new 440 motion and for your
11:26listeners who don't know what a 440
11:27motion is. It's a good Yeah. Well, I'm
11:29going to tell you before you ask it. The
11:31440 motion, and I only learned because I
11:34I became part of one. A 440 motion is
11:38newfound evidence that if basically what
11:42that the person had at the initial trial
11:44had, it might have made a difference in
11:46in the jury decision. So, this was all
11:49new evidence that came out that the
11:50judge in Suffach County granted Marty
11:53new hearing. And what's what's unusual
11:55before we went into the hearing,
11:57everyone in the Suffach count, many
11:59people in the Suffach County legal
12:00community told Bruce Bquette, one of our
12:02attorneys, that we were going to lose.
12:04Amazing. Before you go into a courtroom,
12:06you're told you're going to lose. And
12:07you know what? They were right. But to
12:09get back to Marty's, you know,
12:12demeanor. He lost. When I first met
12:15Marty, he lost every decision, every
12:18appeal. He was finished. He was
12:20exhausted. That's it. He's in jail for
12:23the rest of his life until the unless
12:25the case could be solved. And I told
12:27Marty, "Marty, if you did it, do not
12:30waste my time or your family's time. I
12:32can't get you out of here." Well, to
12:34Marty's credit, Jay worked for me. I
12:37didn't do it. But my seven-year run with
12:40Marty, we lost every possible decision,
12:44every motion in court. If I didn't know
12:48the ending of the true story, right,
12:50during the book, I was like, "Oh, you
12:51know, it's like it's like it's like you
12:53you you were shipwrecked and then in the
12:55rowboat, you're sinking and then you go
12:57to land and there's an earthquake and
12:58then the volcano hits you and then and
13:00then finally you go to some dry piece of
13:02land and then wild wolves start biting
13:03your feet." It's unbelievable. I mean,
13:06the frustrations of losing everything,
13:09you know, I got down, you know, the
13:11whole team, you know, we how could we
13:13lose this? We're bringing in a murderous
13:15son to testify. This one to testify. How
13:17are we going to lose? Everyone, I mean,
13:19honestly, the defense team, I'll tell
13:22you, we were broken for a while. You
13:23know, emotionally upset except for one
13:25person, Marty Tankliff. Marty never
13:28wavered. Marty stood up and the defense
13:30team stood up with him. And we kept
13:32going until the appellet court finally a
13:35court did the right thing, saw the
13:37truth, saw that Marty was not the
13:40murderer of his parents and freed Marty
13:42Tankliffe. And if there's an in one
13:44person that inspired the team, believe
13:46it or not, it's the fellow that was in
13:48jail. And that's why we kept going. So
13:50to for the people out there who are
13:52listening who may have not have read the
13:53book, may not know the story, just in a
13:55nutshell, what happened in the very
13:57beginning, you know, Marty is wakes up
13:59one day and he finds a a terrific uh
14:02tragedy in his home. Well, you want to
14:05Rick take that? Sure. and and all of a
14:07sudden it's obvious that that's like a a
14:09vortex where all of a sudden what was a
14:11quote normal Long Island life is now
14:14completely shattered. So why don't you
14:16start with that and take us through a
14:17little bit just to give our discussion
14:19like a little meaningful context. Right.
14:21Uh September 7th, 1988, Marty was uh it
14:25was actually the very first day of his
14:27senior year of high school. gets up to
14:29go to school uh at about six in the
14:32morning and he leaves his bedroom and he
14:34notices that there are lights on in the
14:36hallway that shouldn't be on. Um he it's
14:40a long ranch house in Belair, Long
14:42Island, which is on right on the sound
14:44north of Port Jefferson. um starts going
14:47through the house. Lights are on. He
14:49gets to the middle of the house. He sees
14:50the front door is open. The alarm has
14:52not been set, lights everywhere, and
14:55eventually makes his way into his
14:56father's study where there had been a
14:58big poker game the night before. His
15:00father's in an office chair uh with his
15:03throat cut. Uh as doctor said, his head
15:07nearly decapitated
15:09um his his brains exposed, bashed over
15:13the head. Uh, Marty calls 911. They give
15:17him instructions to to try to stop
15:19bleeding and send help. Marty backtracks
15:23to the other end of the house looking
15:25for his mother. He finds her dead uh on
15:29the floor in the master bedroom,
15:32motionless, doesn't go near her, but he
15:35knows she's dead. Uh within an hour and
15:38a half, the the first detective on the
15:40scene was a man named Jim McCriedi, who
15:44we'll talk about more, uh in a moment.
15:47Uh he starts to talk to Marty. An hour
15:51later, Marty and Mccriedi and McCreat's
15:53partner are at police headquarters in
15:55Yapank and Suffach County in an
15:58interrogation room. Uh, two or three
16:01hours later, they emerge with McCry and
16:03Ryan saying that Marty Tankliff
16:06confessed to his parents' murders. Marty
16:08was arrested. Uh, nearly two years
16:11later, he was prosecuted, tried,
16:14convicted, sentenced to 50 years to
16:16life. And um it's it's what
16:20happened before the murders actually uh
16:24that that is one of the keys to this
16:26because McCreaty the detective uh was
16:29widely known as a bad cop. He had been
16:33cited for perjury in a prior murder
16:35case. U he was he was widely uh
16:40disliked, disrespected even among other
16:43cops. and why he was still on the police
16:46force, let alone on the homicide squad,
16:48let alone lead detective on a double
16:51murder involving a 17-year-old kid, um
16:54is actually now the subject of uh of a
16:57civil suit by Marty Tankliffe. Um
17:01essentially, they decided Marty did it
17:05and in Suffach County in those days,
17:07what the homicide squad did was decide
17:09who did it pretty much on day one. And
17:12well, it saves a lot of time and
17:13investigation and money. Yeah. It really
17:14does. Yeah. Yeah. And but you get it
17:17back on the lawsuits.
17:19And it, you know, if you get you get a
17:21confession, it's even better. So, what
17:23they would do is make sure they got a
17:25confession. And if they didn't get a
17:26confession, they would simply say they
17:28did. Uh, as shocking as that may sound,
17:31I I just was a little You can't see this
17:33on the air, but I was a little stunned
17:34by hear just hearing that. Yeah. I mean,
17:36that's essentially what they did. They
17:38did it in this case, and I'm sure they
17:39did it in others. I mean, there's
17:41evidence of it. Just to give our
17:42audience some more background, how old
17:44would be the detective at the time this
17:47occurred? How many years was he on the
17:48force? Well, McCreaty was was um I
17:51believe in his
17:53uh around 40 in his early 40s. Um his
17:57his partner Ryan somewhere around there.
18:00So, they they were veterans. Um and uh
18:05just, you know, going back to what what
18:07was going on in Suffach County. Uh, and
18:09this is this really was no secret. Uh,
18:12News Day did a a wonderful series back
18:14then in the mid 80s called the
18:15Confession Takers in which they did a a
18:18computer analysis of homicide cases in
18:21Suffach County and around the country.
18:23Hundreds and hundreds of cases. They
18:25found that the Suffach homicide squad
18:27had a confession rate of
18:3194%. Right. 94%. Did they have Jack
18:34Bower working for them?
18:35Well, yeah. They they they didn't need
18:38Jack Bower. They would add Jack in Fest.
18:40Believe me.
18:42Other other jurisdictions they found
18:44were varied between 50 60% in a good
18:47year. So, in the Suffach County, of
18:49course, what they said was, "Well, we're
18:51just we're that good." You know, um
18:53clearly something else was going on. And
18:55what what was going on was that they
18:56were fabricating confessions and then
18:59going on the stand and and lying about
19:00it. There's no question about that. Um,
19:03and uh, so I think Marty Tankliffe was a
19:06a an injustice, a disaster waiting to
19:09happen because you had McCriedi. Um, and
19:12there really is more to the McCreaty
19:14story than than simply a bad cop showing
19:18up at the scene, uh, being arrogant,
19:21thinking, I know what happened here, and
19:22deciding who did it. Uh, which was
19:24actually what I thought for most of the
19:25time I worked on this book. And Jay and
19:27I would discuss it, and Jay had thought
19:29that McCreaty was there was something
19:31else going on. and I sort of have come
19:32to the conclusion that he that he's
19:34right that that that the uh there was
19:36more going on and uh Jay can talk about
19:39that. You you were listening to taking
19:41care of business on tcbradio.com 89.7 at
19:45wcwp the Abrams communication center. Uh
19:48so officer McCreaty there was there was
19:51some information in the book about
19:52whether there was like he was given some
19:54kind of money like there was like
19:55somebody one of the witnesses said there
19:57was like 50,000 100,000 200 I heard all
20:00the I may have read over that a little
20:02too fast but maybe you can some of that
20:05came out on the Dr. Phil show too when
20:07we we did the Dr. Phil show but to go
20:09back for a second where you know maybe
20:11your viewers don't know but Marty's
20:14father had was in partnership and
20:16Marty's father basically supplied the
20:19business with the funds with Jerry
20:20Stewman the bagel king of Long Island
20:23and and you actually had a little bit of
20:24trivia about bagels right in there which
20:26is very cool but we'll let got to read
20:28the book for that that's right we won't
20:29get into bagels uh on our hour you know
20:32so basically Jerry Stewman was into
20:35Marty's father for approx over 400,000
20:38And that's a lot of money in those days.
20:39A lot of money. It's still a lot of
20:40money in these days. Yes. Well, now in
20:42the new economy. Yeah. Right. It's still
20:43a lot of money. You know, I wish I had
20:46400,000. Uh but but either way, Jerry
20:48owed him that money and Seymour was a
20:51little upset with Jerry some of his
20:53practices, business practices and habits
20:55and was calling the loan in. And Jerry
20:58knew this. And the night of uh Seymour,
21:01you know, Seymour when he was assaulted
21:03subsequently, he didn't die for about
21:04another month. He went into a coma. and
21:07shows you how tough he was to to fight
21:09that hard with that with those
21:11devastating injuries. It really talks
21:12about his personality. And the last
21:14person that to leave the card game that
21:16night, and it's not disputed, was Jerry
21:18Stewman, but you know, Rick said, I have
21:21a different take on McCriedi and
21:23Stewman. I have no doubt in my mind, and
21:26I'm still hoping that it's going to come
21:28out, and I think we're not far away,
21:30that Marty Tankliff lived that night to
21:32be arrested.
21:34Oh, okay. Oh, wow. That's big news.
21:36Well, I mean, you know, because in the
21:38book they the police kept on saying over
21:40and over again, how could it be that he
21:42survived and all and well, now with the
21:44if you have read the book, which which
21:46you have and and I, you know, I've been
21:48very uh glib about it on on you know,
21:51every station or that I've spoken on
21:53channel 12 on on any of these shows 48
21:57hours, Detective McCriedi is part of
22:00this murder. And I'm not I'm I'm not,
22:03you know, embarrassed to say and I'm not
22:04frightened. I welcome anything that
22:06McCriedi wants to come at me with. He's
22:08part of this conspiracy. He testified at
22:11Marty's original trial that he didn't
22:13know Jerry Steumman. And that turned out
22:16not to be the case. That's right. I
22:18mean, I during my investigation, I have
22:21found witnesses that came into the 440
22:23hearing and testified that, you know,
22:26with specifics where they knew each
22:28other that Jerry Jerry Stewman and Det,
22:31I'm sorry, Detective McCreaty were
22:32friends. I have a witness that
22:35unfortunately would have been wonderful.
22:37She's listed. She's named in the book,
22:38but of course we have to to protect her
22:40another name. She worked in the bagel
22:42store outright that Jerry Stewman and
22:45McCreaty were friends that when Jerry
22:49Stewman disappeared and we'll get into
22:50that. Oh, the fake the fake, right? You
22:53know that they they knew where he was
22:55all along. And the fell that went to get
22:57him was McCriedi now. And he was never
23:00he was never prosecuted for faking his
23:02own death. No. No. An insurance scam,
23:06insurance job. You know, it's amazing
23:08because he he went around saying, "I did
23:10it for the money to help my family." And
23:11like, isn't that admitting to some kind
23:13of problem? Well, he you know, I guess
23:14they they they said that that he didn't
23:16actually file any there were no
23:18insurance claims filed. So, there was an
23:20an actual fraud, you know, I would
23:23think. How how about the most simple
23:25thing? The plates on his car that he
23:27left running to make it look like he'd
23:29been abducted were stolen, right? Says
23:32something there. So, and he got a free
23:33pass for that. Why? It's a good
23:35question. Why did Jerry Stewman run? Why
23:39did he take off? Why? I mean, it's
23:41common sense, too. Arlene Tankliff died
23:44that night. Marty's mother died.
23:47Murdered. Yeah, right. She due to her
23:50assault. Now, what happens is, like I
23:52said, Seymour went into a coma. He
23:55didn't come back. You know, he never
23:56regained consciousness. But why did
23:58Jerry take off? Marty Tankliff calls
24:00911. If Marty Tankliff didn't call 911,
24:03took off, everyone would know Marty is
24:05the murderer. Well, Marty calls 911. If
24:09he still is the murderer, I mean, his
24:11father's head is half cut off,
24:13unfortunately. His his skull is open.
24:16The brain matter is coming out. By the
24:18time the ambulance and the police came
24:20finish him off, he was not far from
24:23death, right? But he called for help.
24:26Jerry Stewman ran. Why did he run? Well,
24:30I would think, you know, common sense.
24:32If Seymour regained consciousness, he
24:34would tell the police what happened in
24:36that house that day. I got to ask a grim
24:38question. Why didn't the killers finish
24:39him off? Why did they do Why didn't they
24:42finish the job? Well, I've never was
24:45there was there a struggle? I mean, did
24:48No, not with Seymour. Seymour was
24:50sitting basically Seymour was sitting at
24:52his desk and if I could put a scenario
24:54together and it's just my scenario. I
24:56was not in in there and you know as you
24:58know I'm sure you've spoken to
24:59detectives before when I get a new crime
25:02or when I investigate a crime we always
25:04the squad the guys talk over it could
25:06have happened this way that way. We we
25:08you know we try to get different
25:09scenarios. So this is my scenario. I I
25:12you know I was not there but I think by
25:14the crime scene I could put a little of
25:16it together. Seymour is found at his
25:19chair by Marty in a horrible in horrible
25:22condition. He was probably talking to
25:24the last person that left that night or
25:27did he leave Jerry Steman. His attention
25:30as I'm looking at you I'm talking to you
25:32is Sema was talking to Jerry from the
25:35back the sliding glass doors. That's
25:37where
25:39Joe Cedon, Peter Kent entered. It's my
25:43belief. And they got him like you see in
25:45the mafia movies right behind and they
25:49almost took his his actually
25:52almost had his head off. Why didn't he
25:54die? I think, you know, I hopefully
25:56someday I'll be able to ask, but I think
25:58they thought he was going to die. I
25:59mean, he was if you looked at what
26:01Seymour looked like, how could anyone,
26:03you know, survive that? So, so in the
26:05book they talk about, you guys talk
26:06about the fact that the police said the
26:09police said that Seymour fingered Marty,
26:13you know, like as a deathbed confession
26:15kind of thing. How what what actually
26:17happened with that? Because that, you
26:19know, it's almost taken as a matter of
26:21fact that somehow if he was really that
26:23bad, he was always in a coma. They said,
26:24"No, no, he fingered Marty." And uh I'm
26:26gonna I'm going to let Rick get to that,
26:27but I want to just before I let Rick go
26:29to that part, I just want to say I was a
26:31detective many years. I took, you know,
26:34I was I took many confessions. I was in
26:37the room taking confessions or
26:38interviewing possible perpetrators of
26:41the crime. One thing you like to get in
26:42a confession, which is you like to get
26:44consistency that that it's consistent
26:47with what happened in the crime scene.
26:49This is not Marty's confession to, you
26:51know, I I've never said and he didn't
26:53confess. What you what you read is
26:56Detective McCried's version of the
26:59crime. There is not one thing in this
27:03confession that is consistent with the
27:06crime scene. How? Like I remember you
27:09guys were talking about like for example
27:10that that the police said that they
27:13Marty washed all the blood off and yet
27:15when you went into the sink to find the
27:18blood there was no blood. Well, let
27:19let's go back to the beginning of what
27:22they claim that he said he did and how.
27:25All right. They they they have a a a
27:28knife from the kitchen. the watermelon
27:30knife, right? It was sitting next to a
27:32watermelon and a barbell from his room.
27:36And they claimed that he picked these
27:37various implements up and he went back
27:39and forth. They had him going back and
27:40forth between the two crime scenes. And
27:42it's, as I said, a long ranch house,
27:44white carpeting in the middle. They they
27:47said that he told them he did it naked
27:49so he wouldn't have any blood in his
27:50clothes. Okay. So now you've got the
27:52scenario of of Marty naked. He's got to
27:55have blood all over him, dripping. He's
27:57got a bloody knife. I mean, and the
27:58viciousness of the crime. There's got to
28:00be blood and body tissue in all the
28:02crevices of this knife with a wooden
28:04handle, you know, a kitchen knife. Um,
28:06and then the threading of the barbell.
28:09Um, not one drop of blood between these
28:12two crime scenes. How can that be? They
28:16take apart the the knife completely,
28:19just into pieces, inspect it
28:22microscopically, and a whole round of of
28:24of chemical tests. No blood or body
28:27tissue. How can that be? Barbell, the
28:30same thing. Okay, the shower. They said
28:31he washed everything, including his own
28:33body in the shower. They remove the
28:36plumbing from the house and bring it to
28:38the crime lab. The drain, right, with
28:41the with all with residual water and
28:44soap scum and hair, no blood or body
28:46tissue, nothing. This is micro This is
28:48not just looking at it. This is
28:50microscopically and chem and several
28:52rounds of different kinds of chemical
28:55tests, all negative and no blood
28:59anywhere. So there's not a single, as
29:02Jay said, there's not a single thingate
29:05that corroborates there's not a single
29:07piece of physical evidence that
29:09corroborates anything in the confession.
29:11To the contrary, it really just it
29:13disproves it, exonerates him. It it it
29:15shows that this was McCried's version
29:18because he he spoke to Marty at the
29:20scene, went back in the house. This is
29:22by his own uh you know testimony. Went
29:25back into the house 10 minutes, looks
29:27around, he sees this knife, this got a
29:29little pinkish material on it, which
29:32turned out to be watermelon, not
29:34surprisingly since it was sitting next
29:35to a watermelon. um sees the barbell in
29:39the room, you know, you know, comes up
29:41with this and the arrogance, right, of
29:43of to to sort of look around, figure
29:47that's what happened and then actually
29:48fabricate put, you know, suggest to
29:50Marty, you did it with the knife, right?
29:52Right. And then, you know, making him
29:54say these things or or acknowledge and
29:56basically his acknowledgement was, "No,
29:58I didn't do it." But they kept Adam and
30:02he started to question his own sanity.
30:04And now we're going to get to the part
30:05where Richard asked the question 10
30:07minutes ago. We always we always come
30:09back to your question eventually. Right.
30:10I'm a patient man.
30:12During this
30:14interrogation they
30:16they worked up to the point where they
30:19are increasingly aggressive, which is
30:21fine. um
30:24accusatory telling them telling him they
30:26don't believe what he's saying and
30:28saying that can't be true because of you
30:30know we we know that you you say you
30:32took a shower last night before you went
30:33to bed we know you took a shower this
30:35morning we did a humidity test we we
30:38could prove it a humidity test what
30:40there's no humidity test right we had we
30:43found your hair in your mother's hands
30:45as if in an hour they have hair they
30:47went to sent to the crime lab it's been
30:49analyzed they know right and they have a
30:51sample from him Marty seven, right?
30:53Marty is 17. You know, he's in shock.
30:56You know, these things could sound he
30:58doesn't know what to think. And
31:00then the big finish from
31:03McCriedi. He gets up at the at a very
31:06opportune time. He walks out into the
31:08squad room and he places a phone call
31:10from one extension to the next to
31:12another. Picks it up and fakes a
31:15conversation as if he's getting a call
31:17from the hospital. And then he comes
31:19back in to the into he leaves the door
31:21door open in the interrogation room.
31:23Comes back in and Marty tells him he's
31:25standing over him that was that was the
31:28other detective at the hospital. Your
31:30father came out of it. They shot him
31:31full of adrenaline. He said that you did
31:33it. And Marty continues to it's not
31:37true. It can't be. I don't know why it
31:38would say that. I'll take a lie detector
31:41test. We're not giving you a lie
31:42detector test. And they keep going. They
31:44keep going. And they finally reached the
31:46point where they've got this kid
31:49questioning his his own sanity. Would
31:52could he have blacked out and done it?
31:54And that's a science of false
31:55confessions. This is classic false.
31:58Yeah. I saw you I saw the TV show that
31:59you did on false confessions. Yeah. Um
32:02where you talk about that. Um but but I
32:06have a question. Why was Marty not
32:08charged as a juvenile? Well, he was 17,
32:11so it's 16 would be 16. But you see
32:15what's what's very interesting? This
32:17sounds wonderful, Rich, doesn't it? All
32:19these great things. But you know what?
32:21What we're telling you, the jury heard
32:24and Marty was still convicted. Yeah. But
32:26you know what it's like? I'll tell you
32:27what it's like. You go to the Department
32:30of Motor Vehicles, you're there for a
32:32speeding ticket. You go to like Staten
32:33Island, for example, and I was like
32:35number 57 representing somebody. And I
32:38saw 56 guilties in a row. Doesn't And
32:40the woman before me was a very nice
32:43woman. And they accused her of going at
32:4480 miles an hour at 3:00 in the
32:47afternoon on the Stanon Expressway. And
32:50she said to the judge very, very
32:53convincingly, "Every day I'm on that
32:55roadway, there is very heavy traffic.
32:58You cannot do 80 miles an hour if your
33:00life depended on it and you needed to
33:02flee for safety." Judge bangs the ga
33:04gavvel. Guilty. Be guilty. Clear and
33:07convincing evidence. License suspended.
33:09and and you knew they just they just
33:11rubber stamp everything and and too
33:13often I think society just takes
33:15whatever they put in front of you uh
33:18that's authoritative and it's just
33:19rubber stamped and packaged and that's
33:21it. Yes, it's it's it's actually very I
33:23mean you take a sort of a a relatively
33:27innocuous case of a speeding ticket or
33:29even if she lost her license for a
33:31while, she didn't lose her freedom and
33:33but but the point is is the same and and
33:35it really kind of shows how monstrous
33:38this was because that that uh standard
33:41really did apply here. This jury
33:43actually did take what they were they
33:47were seeing something that they
33:48considered authoritative policeman on
33:51this on the witness stand saying that
33:53Marty Tankliff confessed and they've got
33:58all this evidence saying that he didn't
34:01but they go with the cops. Well, but did
34:03did Marty's father ever have one moment
34:06of real consciousness? No. Never. So,
34:08how did they ever was that just a media
34:10ploy that they had that they said he
34:13Marty's father? The detective was
34:14playing a game. I mean, detectives can
34:16lie, you know, as McCreaty will say on
34:19television. I mean, the Constitution and
34:22everyone I'm allowed to lie. And he
34:25lied. But that's called he's allowed to
34:27trick in in, you know, an interrogation.
34:30But if you're going to trick, you really
34:32want to still come out with the proof
34:35and the evidence that you have the right
34:37person. Marty never confessed. Still,
34:40all he is saying after this nonsense by
34:42McCreaty was, "Well, could it have been
34:44a different Marty?" You know, he's could
34:47my my father never lies to me. Could
34:50could there have been another is there
34:51another Marty? You know, meaning
34:53multiple personalities probably with
34:54him. And he was so confused, you And and
34:57another point here is is you know Jake
35:00just quoted
35:02some testimony and and and and a you
35:06know possibility of what was said in
35:08that interrogation room. We don't we
35:10don't know we'll never know what really
35:11was said by whom in that room because it
35:14was not there was no uh videotaping
35:16audio tape there was no record. Uh which
35:18is really unconscionable in this day and
35:20age. Well in that day and age too I mean
35:22even those days fighting for that
35:24there's always a cassette recorder. I
35:25mean, at least at least, but videotaping
35:27by that point was was widely used. And
35:29the reason they didn't use it in Suffach
35:31County was that they don't want you to
35:33know what's going on in there. They they
35:34admit that they don't want you to see
35:36what happens in there. And um you know,
35:39this whole thing about blacking out and
35:41another Marty Tankliffe. Um we really
35:44don't know what Marty said because a lot
35:47of this still comes from from the
35:49detectives testifying that he said, you
35:52know, it was another Marty Tankliff. And
35:54uh so none of it is trustworthy.
35:57So how big was Seymour in terms of
36:00height and weight? And how big is Marty
36:02in terms of height and weight? Marty was
36:05a little
36:06pipsqueak. His mother was a nice size
36:09woman. You know, she had some weight.
36:12She was a big lady and very strong,
36:14tough, right? Tennis player and athlete.
36:17And Seymour was an overweight strong man
36:20himself. Any one of those two people
36:23could have knocked Marty with one hand,
36:25put him in the air, particularly I'm
36:28okay. I'm sorry. Well, I mean, you know,
36:29even if you think that he Well, I was
36:32going to say that if he came around the
36:35back from his father and his father
36:36didn't see him, uh, you know, maybe, but
36:39they have in this in this so-called
36:40confession, they have him going in, you
36:43know, and in front of his father and his
36:45father saying, "Marty, what are you
36:46doing with that with that knife?" And
36:48and you know, he lets him walk around
36:50the back.
36:51And then his and his mother um clearly
36:55had there was a huge struggle. There
36:57were there were many defensive wounds.
37:00Um the the the patterns of the blood
37:02where her body was uh show that there
37:04was a mighty struggle. So whoever killed
37:08her it is virtually impossible that that
37:11person would not have have indications
37:14of of this crime. And Marty had
37:17literally not a scratch on him. Yeah.
37:20This this case kind of hits hits home
37:22for me because um number of years ago I
37:24actually worked on a a murder suicide
37:26case on the civil side in which um I'm
37:30going to keep all the it was it was
37:31north of New York. I'll just leave it at
37:33that. And basically um a a husband and
37:37wife they were on their second marriages
37:38each the uh the husband uh choked with
37:42his own hands the woman till she died
37:44and he uh went to the basement and shot
37:45himself. But we in order to prove the
37:48wrongful death at the trial, um we had
37:50to have the crime scene people. They
37:52talked about the struggle. They they
37:54talked about the bruising of the neck
37:55and you know and all the the elements of
37:59you know where with the carpet. So
38:01having been through that as a lawyer and
38:03having talked to investigators and the
38:06coroner, you know, it's amazing. And
38:08yet, having had that experience and
38:10reading the book, I I saw such a
38:12disconnect between what I mean, you
38:14know, I saw how the jury deliberated and
38:16they looked at 200 out of, you know, 210
38:18out of 250 exhibits or something like
38:20that and they seemed to have taken some
38:23time. Um, that took a lot of time,
38:26right? You know, they seem to have taken
38:27the sufficient amount of time, the third
38:28and yet and yet, you know, when you see
38:31how the verdict came was delivered,
38:33you're you're you're blown away. I mean,
38:35you're totally blown away. He was like
38:36not guilty on one and guilty on three or
38:38something like that. Well, and even more
38:40than that, there were enough statements
38:41by the jurors, uh, some of them to
38:44reporters and the days afterward, um,
38:47but also an interview that a private
38:49investigator back at the time, years
38:52before Jay was involved, uh, right after
38:54the trial, private investigator for the
38:56defense who interviewed one of the
38:58jurors on tape. This juror was a few
39:01months later and this juror by then was
39:03having real second thoughts. Um but but
39:07explain how the jur how they came to
39:09their conclusions and and you know h how
39:12they went from being split at the
39:15beginning to to full guilty. And we have
39:18a transcript of that interview and it
39:20really reveals u a lot of of just uh
39:25poor reasoning uh a lack of
39:28understanding of basic the most basic
39:30legal con concepts such as what is
39:32reasonable doubt. I mean if this isn't
39:34reasonable doubt I don't know what is um
39:37and the burden of proof. The you know
39:38the prosecution has to prove its case.
39:41The defense doesn't have to prove
39:42anything. And so um you know that's the
39:44other half of this. I don't know if it's
39:46half, but it's this another big piece
39:48that that the jury they had a jury of of
39:52people who who just did a really bad
39:54job. I I know there was a a Batson
39:57challenge. That's that's when you when
39:58the um the jury is not as um as diverse
40:03as it should be. And that seemed to have
40:05been just sort of disregarded. It's like
40:06all the motions were really disregarded.
40:08Marty lost every motion once once Marty
40:10was convicted. Never won. and he had
40:13some of the best attorneys in the United
40:15States. He was finished. Every every
40:18legal remedy was gone for Marty. And
40:22what was interesting as a lawyer, I read
40:23some of the in your book, like the
40:25appellet decisions, for example, and you
40:29know, you you get all excited. Wow, the
40:30brief is saying this and they got these
40:32arguments and you're like you got this
40:33all like this feeling. Wow, they're
40:35going to do it. They're really this is
40:37where this is the part. That's what I
40:38told you too. How we felt. Yeah. But you
40:40you really feel like no, no, this is it.
40:41This is now the part of the book where
40:43it's going to happen in turn and then
40:45it's like total rejected and you're as
40:47the reader you're like I can't believe
40:49this. Well then you must have noticed
40:50he's had 300 more pages to read. But
40:52that was the but I figured there was
40:53more of where are they now kind of stuff
40:55or something like that. I didn't realize
40:56that there was you know never ending.
40:58Well you're talking about Judge Brazwell
41:00the Suffach County judge who rejected
41:02the motion. So, it wasn't quite there.
41:03There were not 300 pages left at that
41:05point. But, uh
41:07um yeah, it's it is
41:10astounding, you know, and and really um
41:13outrageous that this judge in Suffach
41:15County rejected this this motion for the
41:18new trial with the evidence that he
41:20heard. And as Jay mentioned that, you
41:21know, the lawyers uh for the defense
41:24were told by people in Suffach County in
41:26in the system in the criminal justice
41:28system that, you know, the plan is
41:30they're going to let you, you know,
41:31they're going to bleed you dry and get
41:33everything in and then they're going to
41:35reject you and send, you know, they'll
41:36never see Marty Tankliffe again. And
41:38what they didn't count on was that that
41:40Jay and and then the lawyers were going
41:42to keep coming up with more and more
41:43witnesses, people coming forward, Jay
41:46finding people and the flying to Florida
41:48and and this Yeah. And this and this
41:50hearing that was supposed to go on for a
41:52couple of weeks went on for a year and a
41:53half. I mean, not every day for a year
41:55and a half, but it was supposed to get
41:57two weeks, right? And we were there for
41:59over a year and a half. So, you had this
42:01this judge making this decision and you
42:03know, you were reading in the book and
42:04you're saying, "How can this be?" Well,
42:06it can be because the the fix was in. I
42:08mean this judge it was a whole uh
42:11political piece to this uh you know
42:14where that this was a decision made
42:16before before you know before it was
42:18done and uh when it was overturned
42:20eventually by real judges sitting in
42:23Brooklyn the appellet appellet division
42:25uh their decision overturning
42:28Braz had language that you just don't
42:31see uh at all from from when a when a
42:33case is overturned. this was unanimous
42:35and the judges uh went through his
42:38decision and you can read between the
42:39lines and and you can imagine them
42:42thinking did this guy even go to law
42:44school and they're talking about a judge
42:46you know you know said and you know I'm
42:49a practicing lawyer and I go to the
42:50trial court so I have to be somewhat
42:51careful but it is amazing how many
42:54poorly written decisions or no decisions
42:58are out there you know there's a concept
42:59in the law that you really need to have
43:02a rationale for your decision
43:04And I had the good fortune once of
43:06meeting Milton Mullen who was the former
43:08chief justice of the New York state
43:09court system. And he said he was our
43:11mediator in a commercial case. And he
43:13said it was his policy that every case
43:16even it was just one sentence uh two
43:20sentences just to explain to people why
43:23they won or lost. What was the case? You
43:25know why. Many times now you get some
43:28kind of form driven thing and all it
43:32just says is you know uh affirmed denied
43:34you know affirm without cause I mean
43:36that's it or or denied without cause and
43:38there's no explanation or anything like
43:41that. In fact you just to go back to the
43:43DMV I had a case not long ago where um
43:47we lost and and it was just it was just
43:49same thing. I had I had them on the
43:51evidence they had I had them on
43:52identity. I had them on all these
43:53issues. I had I brought a brief to me to
43:56the DMV thing and I put it down. I I
43:58read all these cases into the record.
44:00The judge ignored everything and said
44:02guilty. He didn't even look at the case
44:04names. He didn't analyze anything. He we
44:07the tickets were in the name of one
44:09company, but it was written another way
44:12and the notes of the officer said
44:13something else. And I said, "Look, clear
44:15and convincing evidence was not met
44:16here." And I went through this whole
44:18thing, rubber stamps it, $8,000 fine. So
44:22then I I appeal it to the motor vehicle
44:24board because it's worth $8,000 to do
44:26it. I get a form letter that just says
44:28we reviewed it and done. And I felt, you
44:31know, my god. So now I did I went to the
44:33Supreme Court and I'm doing an article
44:3578. Same thing is I'm hoping that a real
44:37judge will say, look, you can't just
44:39rubber stamp everybody is guilty just
44:41because you need the money. Oh, I'll
44:42tell you, Rich, Selma, Al Alabama is
44:45alive in Suffach County. To its credit,
44:48Selma, Alabama, you know, is normal now.
44:51They've came around with their justice
44:53system. Nobody realizes unless you work
44:56out or or become part of that system in
44:58Suffach County what is going on out
45:01there. I mean they are it's like the
45:04wild west out there right right in the
45:06courts and it's been going on for years
45:08and it for some reason it just does not
45:11get stopped out there. What is the what
45:13is the real problem? Is it an entrenched
45:15bureaucracy? Is it sort of an old boy
45:17network? Is it just uh sort of like a a
45:21cabal of people who just run things and
45:23they want it run the certain way and if
45:24you don't I think it's the old boy
45:26network and and with a little cabal in
45:28an extent. One thing I'd like to point
45:30out to our audience like here we have a
45:32judge but think about the next judges
45:34election which most of us blow off you
45:36know I vote in every election but but
45:38many people think it's not worthy
45:40because it's judges and then you see
45:42pick six of any six and you may have
45:45voted for this judge that was involved
45:47in the case and not even realized it.
45:50Yeah. It's it's you know it's funny
45:51because Paul makes a good point when you
45:53go to a vote in Queens it says pick any
45:56three. It's amazing because some some of
45:58the judges are running on all the lines.
46:00They're running as Republicans,
46:01Democrats, liberals, and independents,
46:03and there's only three. So, you kind of
46:05get the impression if those three people
46:07woke up, had their cup of coffee, made
46:10it to the polling booth, and voted for
46:11themselves, they're in. Well, in Suffach
46:13County, Brazo is a familiar name, right,
46:16Rick? I mean, well, his father is a is a
46:18power broker for a long time and uh was
46:21actually there all sorts of
46:23interconnections with this. You ask why
46:26did he rule this way? what what's in it
46:27for him to to to make such a corrupt
46:30ruling? And the answer is that his
46:34father was a big Democratic boss out
46:37there. It's the reason Judge Brazo is a
46:40judge. Uh and Bradlo senior brought Tom
46:45Spot, who's the DA over to the
46:47Democratic party because Spotta was a
46:50Republican and the previous DA was
46:52Catter also a Republican. And in order
46:55for Spotta to become DA, he would have
46:57to switch parties because he's not going
46:59to beat the guy in his own party. So
47:01they convince him to come over. He
47:03becomes a Democrat. So now Brazo's
47:05father is who shares office in office
47:09with the head of the Democratic party,
47:11official Democ head. um you know that
47:15have have SPOD and now they've got this
47:17case and so it's all kind of fits
47:20together and uh you know with all these
47:22these these conflicts of interest and
47:24the the conflict for Spoda is that uh he
47:27was Jim Jim Mccriedy's attorney uh when
47:31he was in private practice before he
47:32became DA mccriedi was arrested for a
47:35vicious assault on St. Patrick's Day in
47:381994 after he retired from the police
47:41force and this was a this was a felony
47:43assault and he would have gone to state
47:46prison if he'd been convicted. His
47:48attorney was Tom Spa. Tom Spa also
47:51defended McCreaty and other detectives
47:53when they were being uh investigated by
47:55the state investigation commission in
47:57the 1980s for their their policies and
48:00conduct in homicide investigations. So
48:02now all these years later, Tom Spot is
48:05the DA. So, do you think he might have a
48:07little conflict of interest there? And
48:09does he does he does he step down? Does
48:12the judge ask him to step down when the
48:14defense files a motion to uh to have a
48:17special prosecutor appointed? None of
48:18that happens. So, how do lawyers
48:20actually navigate through a lot of this
48:22stuff, try to get good results for their
48:25clients and not get eaten up by the
48:26system? Well, I think in Marty's case,
48:29the lawyers did a terrific job. Bruce
48:31Barken and Barry Pollock who handled the
48:33440 hearing. It went on, they put it on
48:35the record. That's what they were
48:36working for. Just put everything on the
48:38record. And thank God the appellet court
48:40when they received, you know, the
48:42papers, they overturned the conviction.
48:44But I'll tell you, Rich, Suffach County,
48:47I mean, what what they put us through
48:49mentally, you know, with their lies,
48:53their posturing. Uh, I became a target
48:56and I believe I still am in in in
48:59certain respects. I mean, uh, with Lenny
49:01Leato, who was the, uh, the district
49:03attorney that handled the case for
49:05Spoder, it was amazing that I'm bribing
49:07witnesses. These allegations, you know,
49:10if he, if I had the recourse to sue a
49:12DA, you know, but I can't. I mean, the
49:15lies that he was, you know, posturing
49:17towards me and other members of the
49:19defense team were horrible. That the
49:22people who are coming up here for free
49:24trips to Long Island, to Suffach County,
49:27this is what they're going to come up
49:28here in life to. that 10 minutes of
49:30fame. They came up here to their credit,
49:33some of the our witnesses, we could not
49:35offer them immunity. We could not offer
49:38them protection and we would have had a
49:40a more diligent hearing. But many people
49:43were not were were afraid to to come
49:45forward, nor could you intimidate them,
49:48right? But you know what they were
49:49afraid of? They were afraid of the
49:51district attorney's office. That's what
49:54they were afraid of. They were not
49:55afraid of retribution from the the the
49:58people that we named as the murders, Joe
50:00Cedon and Peter Kent. They were fearful
50:02of of Tom Spotter's office. Wow. So,
50:06where are all these people today? Right
50:08here out in Long Island. Wow. Let's put
50:11it this way. Let's do a little
50:13biography. Joe Cedon lives res lives and
50:17resides of course out in Suffach County.
50:19Still do not know what he does for a
50:21living. I'd love to know what he gets up
50:23every day and and and does he go to
50:25work? Does he file his taxes? He is
50:28protected by Suffach County. Peter Kent
50:31today is living in Suffach County. Glenn
50:34Harris is living in Suffach County.
50:37Jerry Stewman, of course, the bagel king
50:40is living in a wonderful gated community
50:43in Boca Raton, Florida. Very affluent
50:46man. And none of these people have a
50:48fear in the world because they are still
50:50being protected. And why they're being
50:53protected? Because this is over one
50:55thing, Rich. Drugs.
50:58How
50:59so? You mean explain to the audience?
51:01Sure. Drugs are being sold out of the
51:03back of the bagel store. We have a
51:05witness who the New York State Attorney
51:07General also used in the state
51:09investigation used that also that had a
51:12business in the strip mall where the
51:14bagel store was. He would sleep there
51:17overnight and he would be out and he
51:19also did security for another business
51:22there. He observed and he spoke to
51:25detectives, offduty detectives, offduty
51:28police officers who guarded that bagel
51:30store while the drug operation was going
51:33on overnight. And Joe Cedon, who we
51:36named as one of the murders, testified,
51:39you know, for the district attorney's
51:40office that yes, he did security and he
51:43did collections for these people. Yeah.
51:46I mean, the drugs is is is irrefutable.
51:50Um Stewman, Jerry Stewman's son, Todd,
51:53was a well-known drug dealer. He was out
51:56of the bagel store. Um it was it was a
51:58retail operation for drugs. Um so I
52:01guess that's what they used the poppy
52:02seeds for.
52:03Well, that's well there's a line in the
52:05book that people would leave with the
52:06little containers of with white material
52:09that was not cream cheese. Um but um and
52:12he he was arrested twice and and sent to
52:15prison for seven years Todd Stewman. Um
52:18so this this is we're not making up that
52:20you know there was a big drug business.
52:22The key here is is the protection which
52:26was also known in the around you know
52:28town at that time. Um, but the
52:31protection involving detectives and this
52:33witness that uh that that Jay just
52:36mentioned uh identified Jim McCriedy as
52:38one of those one of those offduty cops
52:41protecting the business. So, it all kind
52:42of comes together and and your listeners
52:44should know that we're not sitting here
52:47making this up this if you read the book
52:51which is incredibly detailed, right? The
52:53book is really detailed. We just don't
52:54have time to go through how we can back
52:56this up. this. I mean, I worked the case
52:58for seven years. I know everything about
53:01this case. I know everything about, you
53:03know, what was going on in the bagel
53:04store. I just wish our attorney general,
53:08you know, would be a little more
53:09cognizance of the fact that two people
53:12are still murdered, Seymour and Arlene
53:14Tankliff. And and I have no doubt that
53:18Andrew Cuomo, you know, should be
53:20concentrating a little more on resolving
53:24the issue of of arresting the people and
53:26letting the people of Suffach County
53:28hear our evidence before a grand jury
53:31and do that rather than, you know,
53:33trying to benefit for his political
53:35gains. You know, this the the
53:37suppression of the truth. You know,
53:39we've been talking about how the DA
53:42um and the judge and the the Suffach
53:45County criminal justice system has has,
53:49you know, in keeping Martin Tankliff in
53:50prison and trying to keep him there has
53:52covered up what really happened. But it
53:55has now extended beyond that to this day
53:58to the attorney general as Jay
54:00mentioned, Andrew Cuomo, who became the
54:02special prosecutor, was appointed after
54:05the convictions were overturned and his
54:07his job was to a see decide whether
54:10Marty would be retrieded and then b if
54:13not should others be tried.
54:16uh he came back after 6 months of
54:19investigation with his his staff and
54:22announced uh that that Marty would not
54:24be retrieded. I remember seeing that on
54:26the news. Yeah. Well, their
54:27investigation was basically and I sorry
54:29to interrupt you just that I get a
54:31little you know upset when I hear about
54:33his investigation. His investigation was
54:36exactly what the district attorney's
54:39investigation was. Do not try to prove
54:43you know who did this crime. try to
54:45discredit the witnesses and the Tankliff
54:48investigator. And that's exactly how
54:50they came back. Jay Jay was following
54:52their in their footsteps. You know, he
54:54he would Jay knew everybody, you know,
54:57all the witnesses. You know, they're not
54:59coming up with any new witnesses. If
55:01they did, it would it would be it would
55:02be good. But so Jay would be talking to
55:06them and asking, "Have you to find out
55:08what is the attorney general doing? Have
55:10you have they interviewed you? Have they
55:11interviewed?" And what he was finding
55:13was that they were interviewing people
55:17and with an agenda in the type in the
55:19way they were going at it. They, you
55:21know, this one one man Dan Hayes who was
55:24the one who saw the the drug dealing,
55:26uh, you know, he was he was trying to
55:29give them all kinds of information that
55:31he knew firsthand because he was in
55:33business also with with Seymour Tangliff
55:35and had really crucial firsthand
55:38information about what happened here.
55:40They didn't care about that. All they
55:42they kept saying they heard something
55:44that Marty had steroids, which was, you
55:46know, one of the big myths of this case,
55:48you know, because Marty ordered through
55:50a magazine some protein pills. Well, if
55:53you saw him, he looked like he should
55:54have got his money back. He was not on
55:56steroids. I mean, they so the, you know,
55:58the story went around that he was on
55:59steroids, you know, roid rage, right?
56:02But, you know, he ordered through a
56:03magazine. even you can't buy steroids
56:05through and and this guy Dan Hayes who
56:08got the package in the mail because it
56:10was at this gym that they ran. Um he
56:13said it was it was it was it was
56:14laughable you know that that they were
56:16trying to make this you know 20 years
56:18later these guys are coming these
56:20investigators coming around plus three
56:22canations we trying to get him you know
56:25you know about the steroids and he and
56:26he's saying he told Jay uh you know that
56:30I I told them you know it was crazy it
56:32was ridiculous. That's you. Why are you
56:34asking me this? This is 20 years ago. It
56:36was nonsense then. Nonsense. So it you
56:39could tell that they had an agenda and
56:41that agenda was to present this as a
56:43case that was too confusing and and too
56:47ambiguous to ever be solved. So let's
56:49just, you know, we won't retry Marty
56:51Tankliffe and we'll just we're going to
56:53end it here and that's the end of it.
56:55And you know, I think it's it's the
56:58evidence is that that Cuomo is doing the
57:01bidding of Suffach County because of
57:03politics. He wants to be governor and he
57:05wants the he wants friends in the
57:06Suffach County Democratic Party and he's
57:09willing to sacrifice justice
57:12uh you know for his political ends.
57:15Well, you know, the other thing is
57:17this. American society seems to want
57:20just simple answers to complex problems
57:23and it's very hard for pe to get people
57:26jurors and everyone to be motivated to
57:28do the hard work to do the research. In
57:30fact, a lot of times when you go to
57:31court, you know, you see motion papers
57:33that are 6 in thick and someone from the
57:36court says, "What's this case about?"
57:38And they look to the plainif, the people
57:39bringing the case, and they want a
57:4115-second summary. He owes me money. And
57:43then they look to the other guy and they
57:45say, "Well, what's your response? He
57:47screwed up the order." and and and you
57:49know and but it's not that simple. I
57:50mean it's not that simple. And the
57:52problem is if you look at TV and
57:54commercials and everything like that,
57:56we've been reduced to no matter what the
57:58problem is, there's a simple inexpensive
58:01cure and we can move on. And your effort
58:04over seven years shows what is really
58:06required. We only have two minutes. So
58:09um I want to get a hold let's shift
58:12gears for a couple seconds. Could you
58:13talk for about 30 seconds or so about
58:15the Innocence Project? Well, once Marty
58:17was released, I along with Marty and
58:20another gentleman who just left the
58:22firm, we started the Fortress Innocence
58:24Group. It's based on we prisoners like
58:28Marty write us letters and we of course
58:31get back to them if there's an
58:32investigative factors. We will try to
58:34take their case, but they fill out a
58:3622page questionnaire. If in fact the we
58:40find it credible or you know that
58:42there's something we could do with it,
58:43we bring it to some of the large law
58:44firms and hope that you know they will
58:47pay at that point for our investigation.
58:49Now do do you have a phone number for
58:51the Innocence Group? 516759-1511.
58:55I also understand you have a tip line
58:57for the case
59:00718-5704183. in the tip line because the
59:03case in until Marty's parents there
59:06there is closure with arrests. That case
59:09is still active and I will always work
59:11on it until I finish and get these
59:13people arrested. And in the last 30
59:15seconds or so, I understand there's a
59:16blog on your website. The we have a
59:19website for the book which is a
59:20criminaljustice.com.
59:23And um you can actually if you readers
59:27want to ask us questions or or make
59:29comments, we have a blog on there. They
59:30can do that. Wow. Wow. Uh, that was the
59:33fastest hour of radio I've been involved
59:35in in my life. And, uh, you guys are
59:38incredible guests. If we can, I'd
59:39probably want to have you come back
59:41because I'd like to have more. And if
59:42you'll agree to that, I think that would
59:44just make my life. All right. Cool. All
59:46right. You've been listening to Taking
59:47Care of Business with Richard Solomon,
59:48Paul Solomon, J Sal Peter, and Rick
59:51Fersman. Not Rick Freshman. He's
59:52somebody else. We'll see you all in a
59:54week. Thank you for listening.
59:56tcbradio.com. See you soon. Bye. Thanks.

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