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A Conversation with Natan Sharansky - AJC Advocacy Anywhere — Transcript

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0:05good day ladies and gentlemen
0:07our program will begin in just a few
0:14moments
0:18good day ladies and gentlemen our
0:20program will begin in just a few moments
0:30good day ladies and gentlemen our
0:32program will begin in just a moment
0:42good day ladies and gentlemen our
0:43program will begin in just a moment
0:49today welcome to advocacy anywhere
0:51powered by ajc
0:53advocacy anywhere is ajc's digital
0:56platform that will enable you to engage
0:57with ajc's global expertise
0:59content and advocacy from wherever you
1:01are today's program is brought to you in
1:03partnership with jewish insider
1:05you can sign up for jewish insider's
1:07daily kickoff by visiting
1:08jewishinsider.com
1:10it is ajc's honor to be joined today by
1:12mr natan sharansky
1:15widely regarded as one of the most
1:16notable jewish figures of the past
1:18century
1:18natan sharansky's name was a rallying
1:20cry for the soviet jewry movement
1:23jailed for his human rights activism and
1:25efforts to immigrate to israel
1:26he spent nine indescribably difficult
1:28years in the soviet gulag
1:31he was released in 1986 and went on to
1:33serve as a minister in several israeli
1:35governments
1:35as deputy prime minister of israel and
1:37most recently as chairman of the jewish
1:39agency
1:40for israel he is the only living
1:42non-american to have received both the
1:44presidential medal of freedom and the
1:45congressional gold medal
1:47he was honored by ajc in 1987 one year
1:50after his release from the gulag and in
1:52just a few hours after he addressed
1:54freedom today for soviet jewry the
1:56historic rally in washington dc
1:57organized by aj ceo ajc ceo david harris
2:01mr sharansky is currently chairman for
2:03the institute for the study of global
2:04anti-semitism and policy
2:06and he will be in conversation with abby
2:08mayer ajc managing director of global
2:10communications
2:11after we hear from mr sharansky and abi
2:13we will take your questions
2:15you may email your questions to
2:16questions at ajc.org
2:18questions is plural or use the q a chat
2:20feature in zoom
2:22avi you have the floor thank you very
2:24much belle thank you natan for being
2:26with us
2:27and thank you to the thousands of people
2:29around the world for tuning in to hear
2:30this conversation
2:32let's jump right into it natan you and i
2:35are just a few blocks away from each
2:37other here in jerusalem
2:38but unfortunately we couldn't be
2:40together due to the situation this is of
2:42course
2:42not your first encounter with isolation
2:45you have lived through it yourself
2:47under very different circumstances um
2:49and
2:50there was an announcement just today
2:52that you had decided to
2:53contribute your earnings from the uh
2:562020 genesis prize
2:58to a variety of different causes related
3:00to the fight against the coronavirus
3:02here in israel in the united states
3:04and around the world i wonder if you can
3:06tell us a little bit about how you made
3:08that decision
3:09and who the recipients of that prize
3:11money will be
3:12yeah well hello everybody shalom
3:16from jerusalem in fact i think
3:20uh corona is not
3:23something that isolates us from one
3:25another
3:26to the country in the most powerful way
3:28it reminds us
3:30how we are all neighbors how it doesn't
3:32matter
3:33in fact this moment doesn't matter
3:35whether you are
3:37a few hundred meters from me and the
3:39other listeners are
3:41thousands and thousands of miles from me
3:44we have the same
3:45way of communication we are connected
3:48exactly the same way so
3:50the the who sends us a very strong
3:53message
3:54that there are enemies that you can
3:57defeat only
3:58together and that's the time to overcome
4:01many many differences
4:04i think one of the good results of it
4:06that israel finally has
4:09hopefully has uh unity government
4:12i think uh for me it was clear the
4:15message of the electorate
4:17a year ago was very clear to the
4:19political leaders have a unity
4:20government but
4:22uh well we needed more clear messages
4:25this time message was
4:26sent by by god about corona and now we
4:30have unity count
4:31i only hope that this message will be
4:33learned
4:35all over the world uh and
4:39that's exactly how he came to the
4:41decision
4:42about what to do with the genesis prize
4:45i received this prize in december
4:48and then i told to the genesis prize
4:51organization that i'd like that
4:54this million dollars the price
4:59will be spent for the
5:02aims of zionism and human rights
5:06believing that this connection is not
5:09clear enough or sometimes is argued that
5:13there is a lot
5:13to do in this sphere but it was in
5:16december then
5:18beginning from february in fact our life
5:21changed
5:23and now it's clear that we are all in
5:25this new struggle against corona
5:29uh and i'm israeli
5:37to help to review who aren't problem and
5:40i told the dancer surprise like months
5:43ago
5:43that i think we have to change the
5:46purpose of spending this money
5:48and because billions of dollars spent
5:52by the governments to fight corona one
5:54million will not
5:55make difference if we will not identify
5:58specifically organizations and
6:01projects which are directed towards the
6:04those groups which i
6:06have most problems and
6:09that type of activity that even about
6:11hundred thousand dollars can make a
6:12difference
6:13and that's how 16 organizations
6:16we are identified who are dealing with
6:19the special needs
6:20in jerusalem uh with helping to
6:25neighborhoods to all the neighborhoods
6:27including kharidim and the
6:29arabs in the eastern jerusalem and the
6:32organizations who are dealing with the
6:34problems of foreign
6:36workers living in the south of tel aviv
6:39in fact corona makes everybody equal it
6:41doesn't matter for us
6:43whether corona comes from south africa
6:45north of
6:46television we have to fight it and uh
6:49programs for disabled uh
6:52and even one small program for working
6:55with those
6:56prisoners who were released from prisons
6:58because of corona
7:00and now uh uh need some programs of
7:03working with them while they are at home
7:06so and all though most of the money is
7:09spent
7:10in in israel some sums
7:13will be spent through jewish
7:15organizations like moshe house hillary
7:17and others
7:18for jews in need in ukraine and
7:22in russia in in madrid in
7:25roma and some money will be spent on the
7:29research
7:30in new york and in whitesman institute
7:33research
7:34of course connected to corona well
7:37kolkavod
7:38now let's let's take a step back uh and
7:41and talk about your earlier years you've
7:43spoken quite a lot about the importance
7:45of
7:46of freedom and identity and you really
7:49came to discover
7:50those two things at pretty much the same
7:53time could you tell us a little bit
7:54about your
7:55sort of earlier years and then how you
7:57came to the realization of how those two
7:59things were so important
8:01for you and for our people
8:05well uh it's true that whenever i speak
8:09about these
8:09two desire of people to
8:12belong identity and desire people to be
8:16free freedom uh
8:19i find out that many people see that
8:21there is a big
8:23contradiction or opposition
8:26between freedom
8:29what is desire that nobody will tell me
8:31what to do
8:32and identity which means that you accept
8:35that there is group of people
8:36whose collective experience is very
8:39important for you and you want to live
8:41in accordance with their willed wish too
8:45but i am absolutely sure that these two
8:50deep desires are interconnected and
8:53depend on one another
8:54and because i have absolutely unique and
8:57lucky experience in my childhood i was
9:00absolutely deprived
9:01of freedom and absolutely deprived of
9:03identity
9:05we had no identity nothing jewish in my
9:08life
9:08except of anti-semitism no jewish
9:11holidays no
9:11knowledge about jewish holidays no no
9:14language
9:15no book to no place to get this book
9:19no synagogue no
9:22nothing jewish but one thing was
9:25its anti-semitism all over in the street
9:29and the state industry and so the
9:33the conclusion what your family teaches
9:36you
9:37you ig is kind of disease that you were
9:39born with
9:41and the only medicine against it is that
9:45you must be
9:46the best the physics of mathematics or
9:48chess music
9:49whatever that's the way how we do
9:51survive
9:52and you also you grow and you know there
9:54is no freedom
9:56there is uh i know exactly when i
9:59started my
10:00life loyal soviet citizen it was the day
10:02when stalin died and i am five years old
10:05and my father explains me
10:06that is big day for us for jews
10:09he was very dangerous for us it's really
10:13miracle that he died now when we are in
10:14big danger remember all your life
10:17that miracle happened but do don't say
10:20to anybody do what everybody does and i
10:22go back to kindergarten
10:24and i'm crying together with all the
10:26children about death of stalin
10:28and i'm singing together with all the
10:30children about
10:32how grateful we are to starting who gave
10:35us this
10:36great childhood and they have no idea
10:39who
10:40the children is really crying and who's
10:42crying exactly like me because
10:44his father said to him that it's a happy
10:47day
10:48so that is a typical life of loyal
10:50soviet citizen
10:51when everything is a lie all your public
10:53life all what you're saying what you're
10:55doing is all lie
10:56but the truth can be said kept only for
10:59your family
11:00and so do can you think
11:03maybe to fight against this hypocrisy no
11:07because there are no values in your life
11:09except
11:10physical survival and your professional
11:13career
11:14and then and it was very in fact
11:17an unpleasant life you were looking for
11:19the ways to escape this
11:21life of lies and you didn't didn't have
11:24it
11:24and then came 1967 and with the
11:28miraculous victory of israel
11:30where with huge accumulation of soviet
11:32leaders
11:34and the people around you you see those
11:36who love you and those who hate you
11:38they all look on you and say how you
11:41guys did it
11:42and you understand what they want or not
11:43but for these people
11:45you're connected to israel and that's
11:47when i started reading
11:49in the in fact from the books which were
11:50brought secretly to soviet union
11:53by jewish tourists on some other ways
11:56i started reading about us
11:59from exodus from egypt to these days
12:02and suddenly you realize that
12:06you have a history that you want to
12:08belong to it's such an
12:09interesting such an exciting history and
12:12here are
12:13people jews from all over the world who
12:16are coming from different places
12:18but they tell you oh my father is from
12:20odessa your father is from odessa
12:22we are family we want to help you and
12:25there is of course state of israel which
12:27wants to help you so that's how you
12:30discover your identity
12:32history people the country and then
12:35you find out that then its desire to be
12:38part
12:38of this history and of this people
12:42is so strong that that gives you
12:45strength to
12:46stop this life to say publicly what you
12:49really think
12:50that you want to to live for israel
12:53it will change your life physically for
12:56for for worse
12:57but you will start enjoying
13:00the life of freedom and from there you
13:03understand that
13:05it is your identity which gives us
13:07thanks to fight for freedom
13:08and it's uh and it's
13:12your freedom which makes your life
13:15so enjoyable so that's why i
13:18bought two by one one price
13:21uh freedom and identity and i really
13:25value very much this connection and
13:27practically everything what i did and
13:29what i
13:31wrote after this it was how to continue
13:34strengthening our desire to be
13:38one people and our desire to be free
13:42people
13:44now natan when you were in prison your
13:47jailers the the wardens kept telling you
13:50that the world had abandoned you that no
13:52one remembered about you that you were
13:54totally
13:54alone but but you knew that you weren't
13:57alone and in fact
13:58around the world there were thousands
14:01perhaps
14:01millions of people who were rooting for
14:04you
14:04fighting for you really struggling on
14:06your behalf
14:08we at ajc played a tremendous role in
14:10mobilizing the rally in washington
14:13and i wonder if you could talk a little
14:14bit about
14:16about that struggle and whether we today
14:19can learn from the soviet jury movement
14:21on how to mobilize jews around the world
14:23on the issues and the causes that are
14:25important to us
14:28yes one of the bonuses which i
14:31got by becoming the free citizen
14:35and fighting for my desire to to go to
14:38israel
14:39was really joining this absolutely
14:42unique
14:43movement soviet jury movement
14:46which connected you
14:50to all the jewish world in those few
14:52years between my
14:54beginning my the activism and until i
14:57was arrested
14:58i found myself connected to practically
15:01everything in the world
15:02uh i i met hundreds and hundreds of
15:06tourists
15:07who were bringing us literature who were
15:09smuggling our letters
15:11i became a spokesman of our movement and
15:14was meeting with
15:15many journalists uh
15:18and representatives of different jewish
15:20organizations
15:22who were coming to collect information
15:25and then to to mobilize the world when
15:28we organizing
15:29demonstration our big demonstration was
15:31ten people standing for five minutes the
15:33red square
15:34with the slogans let us go to israel by
15:37only ten people because
15:38the more people will participate the
15:40more chance that kgb will know in
15:41advance
15:42it will be secret police and then
15:44there'll be no demonstration
15:45why only five minutes even if kgb
15:47doesn't know in advance how long you can
15:49stand
15:50with such slogans the center of moscow
15:52and then you can
15:53you'll be arrested so what is
15:56the pleasure of spending this fire means
15:58demonstration
15:59but if it is organized well that was one
16:02of my activities
16:04meaning that kgb does know but at least
16:06one journalist
16:08from from from the west knows and will
16:10come
16:11we see it you are arrested but
16:15that evening bbc waste of america called
16:18israel the radio liberty will broadcast
16:20all over the world
16:21the ten jews are arrested only for their
16:23desire to leave
16:24for israel and next morning hundreds of
16:27thousands
16:28jews all over the world start acting and
16:32start demonstrating start pressing on
16:34their leaders
16:37senate passing the laws which link all
16:39the interests of soviet union
16:41with our faith and we felt we felt
16:44standing these five minutes of
16:46demonstration not only
16:48speaking in the name of saudi jews we
16:50felt this
16:51support of jews of all the world so when
16:53i was finally arrested and accused of
16:55right reason
16:56and it was explained again and again
16:58that i'll be sentenced to death if i
17:00will not
17:00cooperate meaning saying publicly that
17:03they're right and we are wrong
17:05and that all the jewish world is afraid
17:08to mention our names that is the end of
17:10the struggle
17:11and after all look who is supporting
17:13them saying they were only a bunch of
17:15students at housewives
17:16i think that kgb really gave great
17:19definition to our movement
17:20it was jewish students and jewish house
17:22wives and jewish lawyers and jewish
17:24rabbis
17:25who for 10 15 20 25
17:2830 years continued this struggle
17:31mobilization of all vector of all the
17:34world
17:34and that's why we survived that's why
17:37our
17:38movement which in the beginning was a
17:40movement of few thousand
17:42jews became the most powerful human
17:45rights movement in modern
17:46history and that's why
17:50soviet union fell and
17:54two million jews left and one more than
17:56one million
17:57came to israel are not
18:00ask me about whether it can be applied
18:03for today
18:04because all really there are some
18:07lessons which
18:08we use it was a very inclusive movement
18:11in fact
18:12there was enough place for those who
18:17like french communists and british
18:20aristocrats
18:21for grassroots and for establishment
18:25there was for very religious and very
18:28anti-religious
18:29for for those who came simply because of
18:33their
18:33zionism and those who came straight from
18:35the human rights movement
18:37marching together with uh martin luther
18:41king
18:42so there was place for everybody
18:45it was there were a lot of competing
18:49organizations
18:50which couldn't st jewish organization
18:52couldn't stand one another
18:54but all of them felt that they are
18:56fighting for an
18:57important cause and with the time we
18:59understood i definitely as a spokesman
19:02understood that it's good there are so
19:04many
19:05organizations which disagree with one
19:07another but all of them all these
19:09organizations were on the end
19:10on one list in kgb files uh
19:14uh called adjuster organizations
19:17and all those hundreds of jewish
19:19tourists who
19:20met and through whom we were sending our
19:22information they were on the same
19:25in the same file of kgb so it was clear
19:29that it is one struggle and one victory
19:33for everybody with all our differences
19:36kept inside
19:37so to what extent this can be used today
19:41some of it can be some of it we first
19:43have to
19:44overcome unbelievable polarization which
19:47is happening all over the world which
19:49happens also in our jewish world uh
19:52when even even the topical anti-semitism
19:55which always was uniting us
19:57today there is anti-semitism on the left
19:59and the anticipated on the right
20:01and it's very difficult to convince
20:03people to fight anti-semitism in their
20:06camp and not in the opposite time
20:09that's absolutely true now natan you in
20:111986
20:12crossed the glenica bridge got on a
20:15plane arrived in israel and you've been
20:17living here ever since
20:19you've spoken quite a bit about how in
20:21your view
20:22israel is sort of the fusion of those
20:24two concepts of freedom
20:26and identity and you've also spoken
20:28about the importance of a connection to
20:30israel
20:31in the formation of young jews
20:33identities i wonder if you could talk a
20:35little bit about that about first of all
20:37how
20:37those two concepts are manifested in the
20:40state of israel
20:41and then also a little bit about the
20:43role that israel
20:44should be playing in the lives of jewish
20:47young people
20:48around the world
20:51well i think we jewish people
20:55from from the moment we appeared in
20:59history as people
21:01are having this challenge how
21:04uh to keep our identity and our freedom
21:06together
21:07when did we become people when we are
21:09called first
21:10people uh in the bible um
21:14when we are in egypt and when we are
21:16living in egypt we are turning from the
21:18tribe
21:19to um parole says this is the arm which
21:22is daniel
21:22and am israeli is leaving egypt
21:25and crossing uh the red sea and then
21:29and then we are getting uh carriage what
21:32our torah so
21:36we got our we became people when we
21:39became free we got our identity and our
21:41freedom together
21:42and for thousands years we are fighting
21:44how to
21:45stay jewish in spite of all those
21:48pressures on us and our communities and
21:51on individuals
21:53and how to be free even when you are
21:55living under the most totalitarian uh
21:58regimes and israel like inherited
22:02this tradition from jewish people
22:05and israel is insisting for the very
22:07first day we are jewish democratic state
22:09and of course there are many debates and
22:12this law that law whether we are more
22:14jewish or more
22:15democratic but what we really succeed
22:18and we should always
22:19see maybe succeed we are part
22:23of middle east whether we want or not we
22:25are part of middle east
22:27which is uh on the map of freedom house
22:30that is the most black
22:31spot of the world the most filled with
22:34the
22:35most awful dictatorships in the world
22:37middle east
22:38and there is a small white
22:42spot i speak about the map of freedom
22:45house
22:46democracy israel so israel is the island
22:49of democracy
22:50in totalitarian middle east and on the
22:53other hand we
22:54are part of the free world that we
22:55insist we are part of different world
22:57and in free world in europe definitely
23:00they decided to sacrifice their identity
23:02for the sake of freedom
23:04and we are saying we are part of the
23:06world but we are jewish state whether
23:07you like it or not
23:08so to be today between
23:12the world which is ready to sacrifice
23:15their
23:16identity for their freedom and to be
23:19part of the world which is
23:20sacrificing their uh freedom for the
23:24sake of the identity fundamental is the
23:26partnerships
23:27and to insist that we are jewish
23:30democratic state
23:32that's the way how we are linking the
23:35world that's the way how we are
23:36insisting
23:37that these two beginnings have to go
23:40together and if you want
23:42for me that is our life to the nations
23:44that is our
23:46main
23:49message to the world that the real
23:52meaningful
23:53free life is the life of belonging
23:56the life of freedom and they have both
23:59to go together
24:00now uh
24:04uh you ask about how
24:07uh israel can or should
24:10uh is influencing on young jews of the
24:13world
24:14look i was among those who were strong
24:17supporter of the
24:18project called birth rights there were
24:20two crazy
24:21millionaires charles bronfman and
24:23michael steinhardt
24:24who had this crazy idea that every young
24:27jew in the god has to be
24:28given the opportunity to go for free to
24:30israel and they came
24:32here and they were promoting this idea
24:33and i became their lobbyist
24:35in the government and there were many
24:37ministers who were saying are you crazy
24:39that we should spend our money
24:42to give them to american jews in order
24:45they can send their
24:46kids for free on 10 days trip to israel
24:49it's like designers they have to give us
24:51money and i felt that it is very
24:54important
24:55that it's like changing paradigma that
24:57israel is now strong enough
24:59to try to help to ask for a jury in
25:01strengthening their
25:03identity and i am very happy that there
25:05was one minister
25:06who understood it but he happened to be
25:08prime minister bibi netanyahu
25:10and in 1998 there was this historic
25:13meeting between
25:14rondon uh steinhardt
25:19myself and we beside the letter of
25:21support that's how
25:22birthright started today there is no
25:26doubt everyone knows
25:27that that is
25:30the most easy way to to
25:34bring you back to your roots to
25:37at least to give you some kind of
25:39injection
25:40of your identity by
25:44by coming to israel and
25:48i have experience with traveling
25:51practically in
25:51every jewish community i
25:54saw the same picture that under this
25:57threat of assimilation
25:59and this big wave of threat oppression
26:02or simulation there are only two anchors
26:05two breaks against it which can slow
26:08down or stop it
26:10it's faith and zionism if you are
26:13connected to
26:14tradition it helps if you are connected
26:16to israel it helps
26:18you have both it's ideal if you have one
26:21there is what you can work with but if
26:24you don't have
26:25neither this nor this your grandchildren
26:28will not be jewish
26:29statistical of course your grandchildren
26:31will not be jewish it's true
26:32for mexico for russians to for
26:36united states of america that's why
26:38israel
26:39that what i am saying all the time also
26:41to my colleagues
26:43and politicians in israel israel has
26:46this
26:46unique role we have to give
26:50feeling of home to every jew in the
26:52world every year in the world should
26:54come here
26:55and feel that he took or she together
26:58with their community
26:59together with their prayers to give them
27:01their jewish way of life
27:03they are welcome here because it's
27:05extremely important
27:07for them storing jewish it's our
27:08responsibility
27:12now natan you spoke a little bit about
27:15your early experiences of anti-semitism
27:17and of course you've spoken quite a
27:19quite a great deal about anti-semitism
27:22uh
27:22since your your time uh in the soviet
27:24union and certainly in recent years
27:26uh you in fact today are the chairman of
27:28iscap which is an international
27:30institute dedicated to studying
27:32combating anti-semitism but you
27:34formulated
27:35what you referred to as the 3ds to
27:38distinguish
27:39legitimate criticism of israel from
27:41anti-semitism
27:42i wonder if you could tell us a little
27:44bit about that and perhaps your
27:45perspective
27:46on some of the anti-semitism that we're
27:47seeing right now surrounding this
27:50current crisis
27:50and whether that can be combated in an
27:52effective way
27:54uh well in fact today it
27:58sounds almost obvious that
28:01there are forms of criticism of israel
28:03which are anti-semitism
28:04but 20 years ago
28:07when i started dealing with this
28:09question as a cabinet minister
28:11dealing with the problem challenges of
28:13anti-semitism
28:14i found out that even to say
28:18publicly the international stage that
28:20this criticism of israel
28:22is anti-semitism is like to say such a
28:26nonsense
28:26it causes such an indignation
28:29politically you say
28:30what you try to stop us criticizing
28:33israel by using this
28:35term anti-semitism because we are not
28:37anti-semites of course we are
28:38against everything what nazis and the
28:40other uh
28:41enemies of the jews did
28:44but uh we want to be able to criticize
28:47this
28:48and and as a result
28:51the best cartoon of the year in europe
28:54was cartoon in the english newspaper
28:56with
28:57a reaction iran eating palestinian
29:00children
29:00and the blood drops from his mouth
29:04or nobel prize winner and legitimate
29:07from spain comes
29:08to israel and then publicly stays on
29:10press conference i was in a refugee camp
29:13that's all shits of today and as a
29:16result israel
29:17can be the only country in the world
29:19which is
29:20permanent uh title
29:23under the committee for human rights in
29:25the united nations
29:26violation of human rights by israel
29:29through occupation
29:30the only country in the world just in
29:32the time when there are millions
29:34millions
29:35uh killed in africa when uh
29:39china is destroying tibet culture and
29:42uh when chechnya is bleeding and the
29:45only question which is on the agenda of
29:47human rights committee
29:48is israel that's what made me to come
29:50with my
29:513d principle anti-semites through a
29:54thousand years
29:55we are demonizing jews we're
29:57delegitimizing jews
29:59and we are applying double standard
30:01which was not applied to any other
30:03people
30:03and they of course gave many examples so
30:06let's see
30:07when today israel is demonized
30:11like in that cartoon when israel is
30:14delegitimized or when uh
30:18like the only country that there is a
30:19question mark whether it is legitimate
30:21that it exists
30:22or when israel is a but there is applied
30:25double standard
30:26in the united nations or any other body
30:29which is not applied to any other
30:30country in the world
30:32that is the same old anti-semitism but
30:35applied not to individual jew
30:36but to collectively and and as is why i
30:40said
30:403ds because i had this image when you're
30:42coming to three
30:43you see watch 3d field and if you
30:47don't put special 3d spectacles
30:50you will not understand what you see but
30:52the moment you put the 3d spectacles
30:54everything is clear so i said when you
30:57hear the
30:58criticism of israel in order to decide
31:00whether it is legitimate it can be very
31:02unjust but it can be still legitimate
31:04like somebody will say that uh
31:07uh israel was very was treating very
31:10unjustly
31:11uh palestinians in lebanon in suburban
31:14cities i can that argue
31:16was it israel was done but the very fact
31:18of this statement
31:19is not making it anything but when
31:23it is said that israel is a new
31:24auschwitz or
31:26puts palestinians in the auschwitz or
31:30when israel is used uh judged by the
31:33standards that no other country
31:35is a judge they're scientists and uh
31:39and i'm glad that though it was in the
31:41beginning it was difficult but then
31:43i found a great ally usk official who
31:47was the minister of foreign affairs of
31:49germany
31:49who was a very left-wing minister by the
31:51way he is coming from
31:53he was the chairman of the green party
31:55and before this he was somehow
31:56associated
31:57with badr minecraft group so he was once
32:00even arrested for
32:01anarchy for almost for terrorism but
32:04then
32:06he became very sympathetic
32:09to israel when he saw how international
32:12terrorism
32:12is tweeting israel and and he was very
32:16sympathetic to my
32:173d principles and he helped me to
32:19present it on the international
32:21conference on anticipating berlin
32:23and then america in american senate
32:26there were committees which also were
32:28interested to hear my presentation
32:30and then it became almost official
32:34used by different jewish organizations
32:36and finally when international
32:38definition of anticipation was
32:41formulated
32:42in fact through examples it included all
32:44three ds
32:46and uh today we have to fight only that
32:49all the countries
32:50the world there is some countries which
32:52already recognized
32:53uh officially this definition of united
32:56states
32:57some didn't but at least we for
32:59ourselves
33:01we have to be very clear there is a lot
33:03of place to criticize israel as any
33:05other country
33:06but there should be a very clear line
33:09between
33:10this criticism and anti-semitism and the
33:13fact that today
33:14there are strong voices on the left and
33:17strong voices of the right
33:19who are really permanently constantly
33:22mixing this together the old and new
33:25anti-semitism
33:27we have to be very clear those who say
33:29that they'll
33:30love jews but hate israel and those who
33:32say that they
33:33love israel but hate jews they are
33:36equally our
33:39absolutely now my last question before
33:41we get to some questions from the
33:43audience i understand that you have
33:44completed a new book
33:45it's called never alone and i believe
33:48it'll be out
33:49in september and it can be pre-ordered
33:50even now um but as you and i discussed
33:53previously you said you were going to
33:54call it 999 to reflect
33:56uh three different periods of nine years
33:59in your life i wonder if you could tell
34:00us a little bit about what to expect in
34:02this new book
34:03yeah well first of all all the questions
34:05all the questions that we discussed
34:07uh are discussed in this book in deep
34:10deep details because that's something
34:12that i was doing all my life
34:15that's a book about my comparing my
34:17three perspectives
34:19on israel diaz relations
34:22how i saw it from prison how he saw it
34:24from israeli government and household
34:26from jewish agency and
34:30it i thought to give it to 999 but then
34:34my publisher said that it's
34:36uh lightweight
34:39or whatever not serious uh by the way
34:41that's the book which i wrote together
34:43with
34:44gil troy brilliant uh is a
34:49author and professor of mcgill who made
34:52delia to israel
34:54and we wrote it together uh comparing
34:57our experiences
34:58and putting my experience the center and
35:00the three perspective
35:02so now it's called never alone exactly
35:04as you
35:05asked me about whether when kgb tried to
35:08convince me that i am alone
35:10i knew in prison punish itself i felt
35:12very strongly my connection with jewish
35:14people
35:15and then of course it is much more
35:17difficult to feel this connection when
35:18they are in the government
35:19or when you are in jewish agency but
35:21still it was
35:22helping me to see things in the right
35:25proportion
35:26uh and
35:30i i hope uh
35:33you'll read this book uh yes it is
35:36launched
35:37by public affairs on the first of
35:39september
35:40but amazon already publicizes it and you
35:43can pre-order
35:44for every member of american jewish
35:46committee and i promise those who will
35:48pray order my book i will send it
35:51we're gonna take you up on that uh now i
35:53think i'll pass the baton over to bell
35:56for some questions from our global
35:57audience
35:59thank you avi and thank you mr sharansky
36:01just want to remind our viewers you can
36:03email your questions to questions plural
36:05ajc.org or use the q a chat function and
36:08zoom
36:09our first question comes from jenna in
36:11washington dc
36:12you recently shared some insights for
36:14how to handle coronavirus quarantine
36:16based on your time in soviet prison
36:18for those who might not have heard can
36:19you share some of your key thoughts and
36:21recommendations with us
36:23i can but you know what they found out
36:26that
36:26you can write books and spend years on
36:29writing movies you can write articles
36:30and make many speeches
36:32but with all these you will reach like a
36:35smaller audience
36:36than with three-minute clip which went
36:38all over the world
36:40so i cannot be as short as i am at that
36:43clip
36:43but i can say it's in fact of course i
36:46didn't have any experience
36:47of corona i think it's it looks like
36:51ridiculous to compare my experience and
36:52punish itself with the experience
36:55of people sitting in comfort and
36:58speak zooming to one another but what
37:01i found out that when the
37:05plans of the people are disru
37:09destroyed so rudely when their
37:11professional
37:12uh ideas are undermined when their
37:15connections their family
37:16is dis when they're disconnected
37:19suddenly it can
37:20bring to kind of depression or despair
37:23at least
37:24and uh from this point uh this
37:27experience
37:28is similar and what i was saying because
37:32always remember why you're doing this
37:34that's exactly what i had to remind to
37:36myself
37:37in prison why i'm there i'm in the
37:40middle of the very important struggle
37:41and i am soldier in this struggle i have
37:43a mission and it depends on me the
37:45result of this
37:46struggle that's people should remember
37:48why they are sitting at homes
37:50fighting corona secondly what they're
37:53saying
37:54don't build
37:57plans don't build on things which don't
38:00depend on you
38:00you don't know when it will finish so if
38:03you'll start planning okay
38:04in two weeks it will finish and i can go
38:06finally uh
38:07from my vacation then we'll be
38:09disappointed again and again i knew that
38:12whether i will get out alive doesn't
38:14depend on me
38:15but where they'll remain free person
38:17even being in prison
38:19that depends on me so build your plans
38:22that depend on you you can decide that
38:24in the next week you'll read the book
38:26which you wanted to read on the next
38:28month
38:29learn hebrew at finally or
38:32any other ambitious plan which fully
38:35depends on you
38:36and then you can feel yourself
38:39that you're controlling your life the
38:41third very important thing
38:43never stop laughing on the situation and
38:46on yourself there are so many jokes in
38:49english in hebrew
38:50in russian on internet about corona
38:53about
38:54mothers about parents about uh about
38:57everyone
38:58it's very important as long as you laugh
39:01uh
39:02on yourself you're free and that's what
39:04i learned
39:05in prison when i was deliberately
39:07telling anti-soviet jokes to my jails
39:10and they couldn't laugh uh thing
39:13if i remember is use your hobbies
39:16i my hobby was to play chess in my head
39:19and i uh uh in in prison
39:23in the punishing cell i finally had an
39:25opportunity to play
39:26thousands of games in a way had to win
39:29all of them and to feel yourself very
39:30good
39:31maybe you love playing music maybe you
39:33love dancing maybe a lot of
39:34singing uh that is the time to enjoy
39:37your life
39:38and finally the most important always
39:40remember that you are
39:42part of jewish people we jewish people
39:44even being
39:45lonely in god forsaken communities
39:48islands we almost for a thousand years
39:50we had our internet our interconnection
39:52of jewish people
39:53which was very difficult but which
39:55always existed inside you you felt
39:58yourself
39:58part of these people don't don't forget
40:01that's that's the time to
40:02feel strengthened by your home but your
40:04family but your people
40:06by your country that's briefly in my
40:08experience
40:11thank you our next question comes from
40:13ajc ceo david harris who says hi nathan
40:16it's david hi david
40:18one of the big controversies during the
40:19soviet jewry movement days
40:21was over the question of destination
40:23should everyone go to israel or be
40:25allowed to go elsewhere
40:26you are a strong zionist but you had a
40:28very particular view that i hope you
40:30will share with the ajc audience
40:32yeah i would like to share but again i
40:34can say that in
40:36in the book which will be published on
40:38the first of september
40:40that's one of the problems which i go
40:42into details
40:43i think it's a forgotten page of our
40:45struggle
40:46uh we was fighting for our right to go
40:49to israel
40:50but then with the time more and more
40:51jews discovered that on their way in
40:53vienna
40:54they can change their direction and go
40:57to america
40:59and well some of us we were very upset
41:03that some of our friends only in the
41:05last month on the
41:06only the airport told us about changing
41:09plans
41:10but israel israel authorities were
41:13really furious about it they felt that
41:15this kind of betrayal
41:16they demanded from american jewish
41:18organizations to close
41:20highest in rome to stop helping to those
41:23jews
41:24who on their way to israel changed their
41:26mind and then
41:27when an american jewish organization
41:28said no we cannot do it this higher than
41:31the organization which helped us
41:33to our grandfathers to come to america
41:36then some of them
41:37turned to us to jewish activists in
41:39moscow and said look you're so popular
41:41so famous because of us
41:43we helped you we we support you and
41:46really behind the scene
41:48israel did a great work for all these
41:50years
41:52i said now we ask you you turn to
41:55american jewry
41:56and demand from them to close highs or
41:59to stop
42:00that america should stop giving them the
42:02status of
42:03refugees and some people did do
42:06such right sexual letters i was among
42:09those few
42:10who wrote different letters you wrote
42:12that we are zionists
42:13we want to be in israel we are we are
42:17fully connected and devoted to this to
42:19this project to be in israel
42:21but we do believe that it's not the
42:24function of the state of israel
42:26to close any doors for jews that
42:30israel has to to do everything to
42:32attract more and more jews but it should
42:34not
42:35influence of freedom of choice or
42:38everyone what we were afraid of
42:40that some jews in soviet will start
42:42thinking about israel
42:44as kind of uh that soviet union tries to
42:48limit
42:48our freedom of choice and now israel
42:50tries to limit our future
42:52so that was my first serious
42:54confrontation with some of
42:56israeli officials
42:59but i have to say even when i came back
43:02after many years in prison i was
43:03released
43:04it was still a very painful issue and
43:08uh that 30 50 70 80
43:12of those who applied for israel and then
43:14we're changing
43:15their path and i was asked during my
43:19first trip to america by
43:21israeli prime minister and foreign
43:22minister to speak on this topic with the
43:25american authorities
43:27and to try to close the gates and i said
43:29no i cannot i want everybody to come to
43:31israel i cannot do it
43:32and then mo sharon's very wise minister
43:35told me
43:36natan i understand you i'm also i'm from
43:39america i believe in human rights
43:41but don't you feel responsibility for
43:44the future of jewish people
43:45you know if you're fighting that they
43:47will stay jewish
43:48those who came to israel will stay
43:50jewish those who came to america will be
43:52assimilated
43:53and i got to say well it didn't change
43:55my my mind my feeling that
43:58freedom of choice is as sacred as my
44:00zionist feelings
44:02but his argument unfortunately is a
44:05serious argument because when you look
44:07at statistics
44:08of the assimilation in america of course
44:11those who came to israel
44:13their future as part of jewish family is
44:15much more guaranteed
44:16so whenever i'm speaking to russian
44:19jewish audiences
44:20there are huge russian huge audiences in
44:22san francisco
44:23in boston in cleveland in chicago
44:27in toronto everywhere in new york of
44:29course when i'm speaking to them
44:31i'm telling them the story i'm telling
44:33them what are instead
44:35and he said you know now it's your
44:36obligation and my obligation
44:38to do everything to prove that
44:41you can use your freedom of choice to
44:43come to america
44:45and stay part of jewish people that's a
44:47big challenge
44:48but it's very important that we'll meet
44:50this challenge
44:53thank you co-chair of ajc's bell foreign
45:01excuse me sorry so co-chair of ajc's
45:05belfor institute mario fleck in sao
45:07paulo
45:07asks studies show that the jewish world
45:10outside of israel is dangerously
45:11shrinking in many places
45:13what should be the top priority for
45:15those concerned with this issue
45:18well uh that's exactly
45:22continues the topic which i just now
45:24raised that
45:26believing in freedom of choice
45:29respecting the
45:30the decision of every jew to live
45:33wherever they want
45:34and at the same time believing that by
45:36far the best place
45:38for the meaningful free jewish life is
45:41israel i'm saying
45:44that it is
45:49if it is important for you no yeah i
45:51know also many people who are
45:53complaining that their children are not
45:56interested they
45:56i say is it important for you you say
45:59frankly speaking no
46:00so if it is not important for you
46:01nothing can be done okay then
46:03let it be like this but if it is
46:05important for you that
46:07the next generation of your family will
46:09continue the
46:10this thousands years past with all those
46:13generations
46:14who are behind you who are hoping
46:16praying
46:17dreaming and and stayed
46:21part of jewish journey if it is
46:23important for you
46:24so from the very early age of your
46:27children
46:28think how you connect them
46:32to their synagogue to their tradition
46:36to our tradition to to our people
46:40and there is no better way to do it than
46:43to connect them to israel to give them
46:44opportunity
46:45to taste this uh
46:48free jewish society whereas
46:52so many young american jews with whom i
46:55was talking who were coming on our
46:56massah programs for half a year and they
46:59were saying
47:00they had very different jews abuse
47:02politically or religiously
47:04and they became strong in their abuse if
47:06they were left or right or
47:08religious secular usually after some
47:11months
47:11in israel you're becoming stronger in
47:13your abuse because you found
47:15those who have authority who have the
47:17same views as you
47:19but they say here we feel that we are
47:21loved
47:22not for our views but for being part of
47:24the family
47:25so to give them this feeling of the
47:28family is something
47:29extremely important something relieving
47:32something
47:34enlarging something enriching your life
47:37and the yeah the sooner or the more
47:40early age you'll give
47:42your children this feeling of pride
47:45of interest of belonging
47:49the more chance is that your
47:51great-grandchildren will be also jewish
47:55thank you we're getting several more
47:56questions on anti-semitism so i'm going
47:58to try to combine a couple
47:59shrub kempner an ajc board of governors
48:01member in galveston texas
48:03asks as you know many countries
48:06particularly in europe
48:07are now adopting the working definition
48:09of anti-semitism
48:11how would you assess the usefulness of
48:13this tool
48:14and romy in new mexico says given your
48:17new role
48:18what is what would you say is the next
48:20frontier or the next big
48:22project in trying to combat global
48:23anti-semitism
48:26well first of all i don't have any new
48:29rules
48:30well it's true that i am changing the
48:32hats i had the
48:34hat of refuse neck and then i had the
48:36head of political president and the head
48:38of
48:39the head of new immigrants party and
48:41then the head of
48:42head of minister in fact four different
48:45ministers
48:45and then they had to jewish agency and
48:48now the
48:49the head of the head of this institute
48:52for fighting anticipation
48:55but i the role was the same
48:58to try to connect jewish people
49:02and the state of israel to build more
49:04and more bridges
49:05to strengthen our jewish family
49:08and from this point of view as i
49:12was saying before this my fight against
49:15anti-semitism is very important part of
49:18keeping our people together i do believe
49:22that this international
49:23the finnish formula for defining
49:25anticipation it goes straight
49:27from our early attempts on the 3d
49:30definition about which i was speaking
49:32before
49:34why it is important because
49:37there should be always a lot of freedom
49:39to criticize ourselves as people or
49:42ourselves as the state we should never
49:44even try to
49:46restrict ourselves or anybody else
49:49in the right to criticize you know we
49:51just know that if we cannot criticize
49:53something we hate it
49:54we a an israel politician who will stop
49:57criticizing israel
49:58will have no political future it's it's
50:01in our culture it's so natural
50:02but we just because of this
50:06we have to give clear
50:09margin clear border where when criticism
50:13of israel
50:14turns into addison extremely important
50:16that's why
50:17the more countries will adopt this
50:20definition
50:20the better and the fact that
50:24in fact american committees in the
50:27congress
50:27dissent and state department accepted
50:30long ago
50:31on the level of president recently uh
50:34president trump was speaking against bds
50:38and explained how he will apply american
50:40legislation
50:42against uh by courting israel
50:45and for this he had to use this
50:46definition and to mention
50:48jews as a nation be both a religious
50:50nation they were such a furious voice i
50:53was surprised
50:54what it was not since we're defining us
50:57as a as nation so it's ridiculous we
51:00have to accept
51:01we are nation and we are religion and
51:02there is no way to separate it
51:05and there are of course people who
51:06define themselves first of all as a
51:08religion
51:08first of all is nation there are many
51:10jews who are jews because of
51:12anti-semitism and then they
51:14let their enemies define us but when we
51:17are in israel coming from 100 different
51:19countries
51:20with different types of definitions we
51:23have to accept all of them and at the
51:25same time to make
51:26very clear borders where
51:29uh where
51:32criticism of our opponents turns into
51:36the hatred and now you say what is the
51:38new challenge
51:40well the new challenge is how to remain
51:42about
51:43one family how to make sure that uh
51:46those jews who chose to live in israel
51:48and those jews who chose to live in
51:50diaspora in america what they say
51:52it's two very different choices they
51:54decide to live in very different
51:55conditions
51:56but if they want to stay as part of one
51:59family
52:00part of one journey they have to make a
52:02big effort to understand the other
52:05and to accept the other with all the
52:07differences there is no
52:08way that uh israeli government will see
52:12pluralism exactly as american jews and
52:14no
52:15way that american jews will see
52:19the usage the situation with
52:21palestinians in the same
52:23way as israeli seed but to understand
52:26one another to understand the needs of
52:28one another
52:29to see how we can make a step supporting
52:33one another it's extremely important and
52:36sometimes it appears to be much more
52:37difficult than
52:39one would think when he is in punishing
52:42southern soviet union
52:43and when it is so clear that
52:46you're connected to everybody you cannot
52:48say whether you're more connected
52:50to labor or to recruit or to reformed
52:53to orthodox or to severity
52:57there is no sense in it all your power
53:00in the soviet prison is from the fact
53:02that all the people
53:03are behind you and that's our challenge
53:06how to make
53:07this feeling strong not when you're on a
53:10punishing cell
53:11but when you are an israeli government
53:13or when you are the head of jewish
53:14organization in america
53:16it's much more difficult but it's very
53:18important struggle
53:19which all of us have first to do with
53:21ourselves
53:22and then together with all our community
53:24as a people
53:27thank you unfortunately we're rapidly
53:28running out of time so one last combined
53:30question
53:31perhaps in honor of israel's recent
53:33birthday and celebrating yeoman's mode
53:35what would you say is the what stands
53:38out to you
53:39as the single biggest change that you
53:41have experienced from when you first
53:42arrived in israel to today
53:44and what do you hope to see in israel's
53:47next 10 years
53:50well look the most important change
53:53in the life of our generation by far
53:56is the creation of the state of israel
53:59of course i was born
54:00in 1948 when the state of israel was
54:03created
54:04but i felt the power of this change
54:07when i stopped being a loyal citizen and
54:10became
54:10already being in the soviet union
54:12thinking about myself
54:14and the citizens of israel the fact that
54:17we are doing better
54:18than anybody not almost anybody in
54:21fighting corona
54:22the fact that we have such a strong
54:25economy
54:25the fact that in spite of all the
54:27anti-semitic attacks
54:29we know that nothing will undermine
54:32no none of our enemies will undermine
54:34our future is because today
54:37they're in the state of israel which
54:38that changes the life
54:40of every jew in the world now
54:43as into when
54:46was these moments when they felt more
54:48strongly i could say when
54:50a few years after i came to israel i
54:53participated
54:54in operation slo-mo i heard that there
54:57was
54:58will be a secret uh operation i called
55:01to the head of jewish
55:02insisted on my participating it and
55:05and coming to africa and to see how the
55:08jews
55:09really in biblical clothes
55:12coming uh from their villages
55:16straight to israeli airplane and i'm
55:18standing at the gates of this airplane
55:20and 400 people instead of 200 people are
55:23entering this airplane
55:24near us another airplane and then one
55:27night
55:28that the state of israel takes 14 000
55:30jews
55:31from africa who are disconnected for
55:34more than 2000 years
55:36and bring them to israel that was such a
55:38powerful
55:39experience of physical experience of
55:42what
55:43how the jewish life changed and because
55:45there were many
55:46other tragic events like uh
55:51killing of our president is kakravin
55:54and very joyous
55:58events in my personal life
56:03when i became a father and then the
56:05grandfather
56:06or in our life as a nation moving from
56:10very restricted
56:14small socialist country to start up
56:17nation uh with like success and feeling
56:20yourself
56:21part of this uh process
56:24uh it was very exciting and uh uh
56:28as i said they have this uh unique
56:30experience of going in one day
56:32from hiv prison to coating
56:35from hell to paradise and when you are
56:38in the
56:39heavens there is only one way you can
56:42only go down so now for
56:4433 years i go down and i'm still in
56:46paradise
56:47every day i feel i'm in paradise and i'm
56:50happy to share this feeling
56:52with everybody who wants to join us
56:56thank you so much natan for spending
56:58some time with us this afternoon we know
56:59that you
57:00uh have been looking forward to spending
57:01a little bit more time with your your
57:03daughters and your grandchildren
57:05uh we hope you'll have the opportunity
57:07as the restrictions are gradually ease
57:09and of course we're looking forward to
57:10reading your book on
57:12september the 1st uh with that bell i
57:14will hand things right back over to you
57:16thank you thank you everybody and my
57:19best regards dave harris
57:22thank you avi and thank you mr sharansky
57:24for being with us today and of course
57:25for all that you have done for the
57:27jewish people in the state of israel
57:28i also want to thank our audience for
57:30joining us today to support ajc's vital
57:32work around the world
57:33please visit ajc.org donate to stay up
57:36to date on upcoming advocacy anywhere
57:38programs
57:39please visit ajc.org advocacyanywhere
57:42please join us tomorrow at 12pm eastern
57:44for a program on the united arab
57:46emirates and the coronavirus
57:47featuring her excellency ambassador lana
57:49nuseba uae and permanent
57:51representative to the united nations to
57:53register for this program again please
57:55visit ajc.org
57:57advocacyanywhere please stay safe and
57:58healthy goodbye

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