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0:00Every goal requires a different kind of
0:01store. So if you're aiming for 100k a
0:03month, you have to take yourself
0:04seriously. 1 million. Now you are truly
0:06a serious business. To get to 10
0:08million, you just need a path from an
0:10empty webshop to € 10 million per
0:12month. Ali Sadek shares his complete
0:15€ 80 million blueprint and warns you
0:18of the fatal mistakes that could
0:20destroy your empire in one blow. Can a
0:23webshop generate a million in revenue
0:25per month while having almost no money
0:27in the bank?
0:28>> Yes. And then if you just keep doing
0:31that continuously, you've suddenly made
0:325 million in revenue. You might only
0:34have € 5,000 in your account. We
0:36happened to close a deal with James
0:37Charles. That is one of the biggest
0:39celebrities in the US. We now also have
0:41a lot of other celebrities we work with
0:43. And that comes from...Suppose someone
0:45has nothing at all, how do you build a
0:47webshop from scratch to 10 million in
0:49revenue per month?
0:50>> I would really look at
0:55>> get more revenue from your email
0:57marketing with Clever Reach.
0:58GDPR-compliant with professional
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1:03free. Link is in the description. Stuck
1:06as an entrepreneur? Then working hard
1:08won't get you any further. But a
1:10different environment will. And that is
1:12why we have our new community, the
1:14Venger Club. Click the link in the
1:16description and take note, it closes
1:18soon and spots are limited. Ali,
1:20welcome. Great to have you back. Second
1:23time already.
1:24>> Yes.
1:25>> Hey. Suppose you lose your brand, your
1:28team, your money, and all your sales
1:30channels tomorrow. How do you rebuild a
1:33webshop from scratch to 10 million in
1:35revenue per month? This is what we are
1:38going to answer in a moment. But first,
1:41we are going to show the actual revenue
1:43you have achieved. I don't know exactly
1:47what you can see on your phone.
1:49>> So, uh, Shopify dashboard. Yes. And
1:54what can you
1:56>> millionaire in the last 12 months.
1:58>> Let's go. Great. So people know that
2:02you are actually making the revenue. So
2:04that is quite nice in itself. Hey. If
2:06we then dive into the question itself.
2:10You want to scale up to that 10 million
2:12a month, but you've lost everything.
2:15How would you pick it back up now? So
2:19imagine, uh, you are experienced, you
2:24have, uh, run things before.
2:26>> Yes,
2:27>> I would really look at what the current
2:29trends are. So in my case, you have,
2:32for example, uh, Korean trends. So a
2:34lot of women, whatever skincare people,
2:37are looking at Korean products. That is
2:40currently a very high trend, also with
2:42very high competition. So if you have
2:44the experience, you can jump on that.
2:46What you can also do is look at what
2:48isn't there yet? What is being done in
2:50other countries, for example? Or not
2:52being done well enough. What can I
2:54improve on? So it really starts with
2:56determining the strategy. Choosing a
2:58product, choosing a category. How are
3:00you going to approach it, so to speak?
3:02How are you going to jump into it? Once
3:04you've determined that, you look at
3:06what your skills are. My skills are
3:09mainly paid ads, Meta, etc. So I would
3:11just focus hard on that, build the
3:13system around it, and then just keep
3:15adding new products and then just scale
3:17horizontally with all the learnings and
3:20everything you see. After that, well,
3:24what goes further is celebrities and
3:27other things you can do to maximize
3:29revenue and then, well, just worldwide
3:31expansion.
3:33>> That's it in short.
3:34>> That's it in short. We can, yes, we can
3:36go into some detail, but otherwise it
3:38will take too long. Yes.
3:40>> Exactly.
3:40>> Yes, that's why, because in this
3:42podcast we are going to break this down
3:44. We are actually going to look first
3:46at how to go from 0 to 10k. Then from
3:4910 to 100k per month. 100k to 1 million
3:51per month. It is quite a lot of money
3:54to me when I hear that. And then from 1
3:56to 10 million per month. And yes, I
3:59have seen some impressive numbers from
4:01you. And I think you can also explain a
4:03bit about more than 10 million per
4:05month. Um, let's start at the beginning
4:08. Suppose someone has nothing at all.
4:13Wants to go from zero to that €
4:1510,000 per month. Can you explain how
4:17someone could go about building that?
4:20>> Yes. So in principle, you have no money
4:22at all. You have no cash flow. You just
4:24have to look at what brings in money
4:26today.
4:26>> Yes.
4:27>> The problem with this is that there is
4:29a certain ceiling. So you can't go any
4:30further with what you're doing. So it
4:32is just purely cash flow. I would just
4:35look at what is the easiest thing to
4:37start with. At the moment, it is
4:39probably creating content for other
4:41companies. Then your time is limited,
4:44so you can only make so much content
4:46per day, per month, etc. And if you
4:48look specifically at e-commerce, so you
4:50really want to sell a product instead
4:52of a service, then you could just, well
4:54, in principle look at the dropshipping
4:56model. So you're going to sell other
4:58people's products on your webshop and
5:00then do the marketing online. So
5:01basically it's the same as creating
5:03content, but you also have to answer
5:05customers and things like that. It
5:07depends a bit on what you want to focus
5:08on.
5:09>> Webshop owner, I'm curious. Do you know
5:11the name of the contact person at your
5:13payment provider?
5:14>> Probably not. And as long as everything
5:16is running, it doesn't matter at all.
5:18Until something goes wrong. Then you
5:19need to act within an hour, and it
5:21turns out your provider just has a
5:23login screen with a support form. Next,
5:24you're waiting for weeks while you
5:26can't receive any payments, and it's a
5:28disaster.
5:28>> At Wesaap Payments, you have a
5:30dedicated account manager with a mobile
5:32number. Text, call, or email, and you
5:34get an answer in minutes. More than
5:3610,000 webshops are already using Woesa
5:38. Sign up now via the link in the
5:40description and benefit from the first
5:4250 free transactions. Okay. So it's the
5:46case that you start at zero, so you're
5:48basically indicating that you're going
5:50to create organic content yourself.
5:52>> Yeah, you can just approach companies
5:54like, "Hey, I'll make content for you."
5:56"Pay me this much." And then if you go
5:59viral or you make really good content,
6:01for example ads, then you can just earn
6:04money. Just from day one, every euro or
6:06every minute that goes in, money comes
6:08in immediately. But yeah, as I said, it
6:11is limited, also dropshipping. So if
6:13you're actually doing dropshipping,
6:15you're not thinking about the customer
6:17experience. And what happens then is
6:19you're actually burning the customer
6:20relationships you could have with your
6:22store. So the longer you keep doing it,
6:26the bigger you get, the more people
6:27you're going to deal with your products
6:29, the more people have a bad experience
6:31with your product, so the faster it
6:33actually dies. So when you look at
6:36advertisements etcetera, people have a
6:38certain feeling about a certain product
6:39that makes it work, which gives people
6:41the trust to buy something from you.
6:43>> Yeah.
6:44>> Only if they have already seen it so
6:45many times and they also see that other
6:47people are having bad rather than good
6:49experiences, the trust in that product
6:51fades. It's actually just temporary
6:54revenue, yeah. Right.
6:58>> Yeah. Revenue you can make.
6:59>> Until the moment you've basically,
7:01let's say, ruined the market and then
7:03in principle you can no longer run it
7:05profitably. Then it's just over and you
7:07move on to the next product. So it's a
7:09kind of rat race. But in principle, if
7:12you look at content creation and such,
7:15you are building something, a certain
7:17skill that is useful, which is more
7:19than let's say the dropshipping
7:20e-commerce side. So I would recommend
7:24that more, but people obviously also
7:26want to learn how to manage their own
7:28business and how to scale their product
7:30in that way.
7:31>> Yeah. So you basically have two options
7:33. Either content creation for other
7:36companies or starting with dropshipping
7:38.
7:40>> Yes.
7:41>> For dropshipping itself, you indicate
7:43that, yes, you basically have to move
7:46on to the next product until you mess
7:48up the market base. Yeah.
7:49>> Yes, I already know that a lot of
7:51people will say, "Yeah, but honestly,
7:53isn't that unethical?"
7:54>> Yes, definitely. But your goal is 10k
7:57per month, you want to make money, you
7:59probably don't want to take many risks
8:01and things like that. So looking from
8:04that perspective, dropshipping is
8:06basically the best model. But you can
8:08also approach it ethically, for example
8:10, by being transparent about your
8:11shipping times, transparent about the
8:13quality, skipping products that aren't
8:16of good quality, and focusing mainly on
8:18why people want to buy this and getting
8:20the maximum value out of it because you
8:22also want to move on to the next stages
8:24. But 10k per month would basically be
8:26sufficient with that. If you look now
8:29at, uh, the inner circle, just the
8:32people who are dropshipping and moving
8:34within that, um, what do you mainly see
8:40in the group, the unethical or the
8:41ethical ones?
8:43>> It is mainly the mindset. People who
8:46basically don't care much about what
8:48customers think also think more about
8:50sales first.
8:51>> Yeah. So when you prioritize revenue
8:54and don't think about the rest, you end
8:56up shooting yourself in the foot. But
9:00people who are always trying to find
9:02the next thing, next product, next
9:04store, next country that hasn't been
9:06ruined by that product yet, means that,
9:08ultimately, most dropshippers have a
9:10certain mindset. But I've also seen a
9:12lot of dropshippers who just have good
9:14quality products and eventually turn it
9:16into a brand. But it really comes down
9:18purely to the mindset of why you start,
9:20what do you want to achieve? Is it just
9:22money? Yeah. Then, uh, a ceiling is
9:24reached immediately, so to speak.
9:25>> Yeah. So that is actually more just the
9:27quick money they are chasing after.
9:29>> Yeah.
9:30>> Or do I just want to build something
9:31that lasts. Only with dropshipping, as
9:34the name implies, it's often the case
9:36that the owner is unknown. There is no
9:39face attached to it. A product is only
9:41temporary. So, the sentiment
9:43surrounding that is often, if we look
9:45at reality, just lower.
9:47>> Yes, that's right.
9:49>> How do I ensure that I find a product
9:51that is actually in demand? I would
9:57look at what problems people have for
9:59which they are desperately seeking
10:00solutions, and then look for products
10:02around that. Because those problems are
10:06always where people have a demand, and
10:08that's where you can most consistently
10:10find the most profitable products.
10:13>> Suppose you had to find such a product
10:15tomorrow. Which tools would you look
10:18for, and when do you know, "hey, this
10:20is potentially one I can use?" I would
10:23definitely look at Google Trends. What
10:25are the trends? What are people
10:27searching for? Where is there a demand?
10:29You also have a tool, the Facebook Ads
10:31Library. You can search by keywords for
10:33what people are running right now. What
10:35kind of ads are people running now?
10:36Where is scaling happening? Where not?
10:38In Europe, you also have a tool where
10:40you can see how much ad spend is behind
10:41it. And you can also look at TikTok
10:43Shop and things like that, where you
10:44have more data on what people are
10:46buying and what they're doing. I've
10:49heard it said quite concretely that if
10:51you see a video where a product is
10:53being sold, and it has so many likes or
10:55has been shared so many times, then you
10:57know you might have a hit. Could you
11:01also make it that concrete for someone
11:03to know, "Hey, this is a potentially
11:05viral product if I sell it?" Um, yes,
11:09if something is viewed a lot, liked a
11:12lot, shared a lot,
11:13>> yes,
11:14>> there is definitely a demand for it.
11:16>> But how much is "a lot"?
11:18>> Because everything gets a few likes
11:19here and there.
11:22>> Yes. How much really depends on what
11:25the goal is; if you say 10k per month,
11:27then I would look at what is going
11:29viral in America right now and just do
11:31that in the Netherlands. And then you
11:34immediately have a business that can
11:36generate 10k per month.
11:37>> Yes, so it really shouldn't be too
11:39difficult.
11:39>> Yes, it's very simple. You shouldn't
11:42reinvent the wheel. How long can
11:46someone with no knowledge, when
11:48starting with a bit of dropshipping,
11:50reach that 10k per month?
11:52>> What is the question?
11:53>> How long can someone who is just...Yes,
11:56how long? Someone without knowledge who
11:58doesn't really have a plan, they watch
12:00this now and think, okay, I want this
12:01too.
12:02>> Yeah, it’s most likely luck when they
12:04hit that 10k.
12:05>> Okay,
12:06>> so I would think three months maximum.
12:08>> Three months maximum
12:10>> if you really find a product by luck
12:12and then keep doing it the same way
12:14without learning new things. Yeah, then
12:16I think three months. And suppose they
12:20want to do it faster, what are the
12:22first things you would look at? Oh. Oh.
12:27After 3 months you do it.
12:28>> No, no. So they can, you say, hey, you
12:32give them 3 months to reach that 10k.
12:34>> Oh no, no. I said they can only make
12:3710k for a maximum of 3 months with one
12:39lucky product, so to speak.
12:41>> Okay.
12:41>> So it takes them, it takes them three
12:43months.
12:44>> No, yes, it takes three months. Yeah.
12:46>> Okay. How, how long, if you ask how
12:48long they have to work now to reach it,
12:52>> then you can in principle hit it after
12:54just a week with luck. Then you have to
12:56, okay.
12:57>> Yeah.
12:58>> What are the most important points you
12:59look at to achieve that? So if you look
13:02over someone's shoulder now, who is
13:04doing 2k a month, just to name
13:06something.
13:07>> Yeah.
13:07>> What are the first points you look at
13:09to start tinkering with that? Okay, so
13:11I would look at three points. Can you
13:16solve an actual problem with the
13:18product that is in high demand, and is
13:20there not already a big brand in your
13:22market solving that problem?
13:25>> Mm-hmm.
13:26>> So what you can look at is, what are
13:28common problems? People want to get
13:30thin.
13:30>> Yeah. But what also comes with people
13:32getting thin is side effects. So people
13:34, for example, now using Ozempic, etc.,
13:36have a lot of side effects. You can
13:38then look up, okay, it has gone so
13:40viral now. Side effects, what are the
13:42side effects? Where, how can I solve
13:44that problem?
13:44>> And that is a new problem that has
13:46emerged, which is also very big, and
13:48you can capitalize on that. And that's
13:50how you have to think creatively about
13:51where there is demand and where there
13:53is little supply. If you look now, for
13:57example, at a bit of pharmacy and a bit
13:59of peptides, for instance, it is a
14:01fairly new market, but I think also a
14:03bit sketchy.
14:05>> Yes, also many side effects.
14:07>> Many side effects again.
14:08>> And on that, you can again come up with
14:10products that then solve that.
14:12>> Yeah. How do you look at it yourself?
14:14Towards, for example, some more grey
14:16area niches like peptides? Do you say:
14:19"Hey, listen, in reality, just test it
14:22out," or do you say: "Hey, there is a
14:24certain limit, thus far and no further.
14:27"
14:27>> Yes, I would definitely look at the law
14:29. I would just look at what is allowed
14:31by the law.
14:32>> Yes.
14:33>> And if it goes beyond that, I certainly
14:35wouldn't go into it. No, another thing
14:38I often notice around me is the
14:40supplier aspect. There’s always a lot
14:42of discussion about that. Especially as
14:45a beginner, you have to bump into that
14:47as well. It can also take quite a long
14:49time before you have a good supplier.
14:52How would you approach that?
14:55>> Suppliers. There are, yes, there are
15:00many groups, communities, places where
15:03you...yes, can find suppliers, but
15:08there are also a lot of not-so-good
15:10suppliers. So the way you can do it, I
15:15would just follow a big dropshipper or
15:17brand and see who they go with every Q4
15:19, where they go in China, do they take
15:21a photo with that person or not? And if
15:25you go to a trade show with that person
15:27or the supplier posts that person, then
15:29you know that person is with them and
15:31there's a high chance that it will be a
15:33good supplier.
15:35>> That specifically.
15:37>> Yes.
15:38>> Is that also realistic for someone who
15:39is still really at the beginning?
15:42>> Um, if you look at this platform, there
15:44are a lot of e-commerce guys here.
15:46>> Yes.
15:46>> And you have probably done some
15:48research too.
15:49>> H
15:49>> on who is doing well, who isn't. And
15:51they all have an Instagram account. You
15:53can just look up their name. Then you
15:56can see, okay, of the 10 people I've
15:58seen, who has an Instagram account,
16:00goes to China every Q4, who do they go
16:03to? And then maybe four out of 10
16:06people go to the same person, and then
16:08you know, okay, this is the person I
16:10need to have.
16:11>> Supplier, that can sometimes be for a
16:14specific brand, right?
16:15>> Yes.
16:16>> Dropshipping is a bit different in that
16:18regard. Namely, that you sell many more
16:20products. It doesn't necessarily have
16:22to be the case that the supplier has
16:23the right products for you, right?
16:25>> Yes, that's right. But if you dropship,
16:28usually they do have a very large
16:30catalog where they can help you out.
16:33>> Okay, check. A piece of...um, what you
16:36also have to consider is your webshop.
16:40How would you approach that?
16:43>> So you want to have a € 10,000 per
16:45month webshop. I would definitely niche
16:48down to one country. So let's say in
16:50this case the Netherlands, just
16:52everything in Dutch, everything
16:54regarding spelling, the feel, the
16:56discounts. Really niche down to the
16:58Netherlands.
16:59>> Uh-huh.
16:59>> Definitely a .nl domain. And I would
17:02also look at what major brands in the
17:04Netherlands are doing. What does a
17:06website look like? How does the
17:07collection page look, the product page?
17:09I would just adopt that as much as
17:11possible.
17:11>> Yeah. And just set that up for the
17:14product you’ve chosen.
17:19>> When does it become copying and when is
17:21it well-adapted? Um, copying. In the
17:27Netherlands, there is quite a high
17:29barrier. So you really have to copy
17:31texts one-by-one or steal photos. But
17:34if you just have the layout, you see a
17:36title, buy-one-get-one-free discounts,
17:39these bundles, you have these photos,
17:41this layout. Yeah, that can't be
17:43considered copying. That’s just
17:45well-adapted.
17:46>> Okay. Suppose I have € 1,000 as a
17:48starting budget. Can I do something
17:50with that? € 1,000 could, in
17:54principle, if you have the right
17:56strategy, be sufficient. I would also
18:00definitely watch a lot on YouTube about
18:02how you should start. What many people
18:04think is we’re going to run Meta ads,
18:06but if you have a lot of time—and you
18:08probably have a lot of time to run a
18:10€ 10,000 a month shop—I would
18:11basically just look at how you are
18:13going to create content people want to
18:15watch.
18:15>> Yeah. And I think that at this moment
18:17it isn't very difficult. You have a lot
18:20of tutorials online on how to make good
18:22hooks, etc. And you should capitalize
18:24on that and look primarily at organic,
18:26and if that takes off, take that and
18:29turn it into ads and then eventually
18:31expand further.
18:32>> Nice. So the organic way.
18:34>> It costs no money.
18:36>> No, but it does take more time. Yes,
18:38that's right. Yeah, if you say ideally
18:44speaking, what would your starting
18:46budget be? Just to make it a bit easier
18:49.
18:53>> Yeah, if it were me and I knew for a
18:55fact that my strategy would work, I
18:57think between € 5,000 and € 10,000
18:59is good, then you can just keep your
19:01personal expenses covered for a few
19:03weeks and really focus on it.
19:08>> Yes.
19:08>> Test multiple products, test multiple
19:10things, learn from them, and then scale
19:12up.
19:12>> How many products do you have to test
19:14on average until you've really found a
19:16winner?
19:16>> Yeah, it depends, so if you really find
19:18very specific, very creative products,
19:21like I said, you just start thinking,
19:23okay, what has been doing well recently
19:25? What are a lot of people looking at
19:26now? What is a new market? And you get
19:28really specific, I guarantee if you
19:30look up the side effects of Ozempic
19:32right now and find products for that,
19:34it will definitely do well. Every
19:36person who is watching this right now
19:37and uh wants to start with e-com,
19:39probably. Yeah, probably if everyone
19:40starts doing that, then it won't work
19:41anymore. But
19:42>> yeah. Yes,
19:43>> if you're the first one, maybe.
19:45>> Do you have any other creative angles?
19:49Um yes, so what I would also really
19:51look at is what has uh happened
19:53recently. So for example, trends. You
19:56have Q4 now, Christmas, et cetera. Many
19:58people want to uh, yeah, buy things for
20:01their loved ones, gifts, et cetera. You
20:03can just jump on that too. For example,
20:06uh holiday periods, uh holiday products
20:08, they really uh take off. So it really
20:11is about those trends, because if you
20:13think about it, there isn't enough uh
20:15supply for the demand during those peak
20:17periods. That's why it always happens;
20:21every year that demand grows, and you
20:23always do well in those periods. But it
20:25is, of course, as I already said,
20:27short-term. It lasts maybe six weeks or
20:29two months max, and then you have to
20:31have something new.
20:32>> But those trends work, guaranteed.
20:34>> Yes. And with dropshipping, you do work
20:36for the short term, but not necessarily
20:38for months and months.
20:39>> Yes. Yes. So now, uh, I don't know when
20:42this will go online, but we are just
20:44before uh Q4, Black Friday, Christmas,
20:46et cetera.
20:47>> Yes.
20:47>> Yes. Around Christmas, uh, I always buy
20:50gifts for my loved ones, and I always
20:52do that on uh Google. I just look
20:54things up or even, uh, if I have a
20:56girlfriend, uh, I buy my girlfriend, I
20:58don't know, a necklace or something. So
21:00those, the demand there is so great,
21:02and a lot of companies just go out of
21:04stock. So the demand cannot be supplied
21:08. So, every year, you just see, uh,
21:11yeah, a lot of revenue. Right. Before
21:17we go to uh the next phase, from uh 10k
21:20to 100k, what is one thing someone
21:22really needs to take away and implement
21:24who is currently working on getting to
21:26that 10k?
21:27>> Yeah, you need to have something that
21:29hasn't been done in that market yet. So
21:31the easiest way is, of course, looking
21:33at other markets and potentially
21:35setting that up in Dutch. That is
21:36really, uh, the lowest of the
21:38low-hanging fruit.
21:39>> Mm-hmm. And uh yeah, I would just have
21:41something that hasn't been scaled up as
21:44much as in uh other countries.
21:47>> So really uh it has to be something
21:51unique, not yet scaled, let's say, not
21:53yet saturated, and a goal to fill in
21:55the Netherlands if you go into the
21:57Netherlands.
21:59>> Yeah, that's also the question of, yeah
22:00, do you want to be in the Netherlands?
22:02>> Yes, I think most people here who are
22:04just Dutch can start very easily, very
22:06quickly.
22:06>> Would you advise that? Well. Yes,
22:08>> I I would do it. Yes, because you also
22:10have the kind of knowledge of what the
22:12Dutch market is like a bit. You know
22:14that they are all really big on
22:15discounts.
22:16>> Yes,
22:17>> are a bit skeptical.
22:18>> It really has to come across as
22:20credible.
22:21>> So if you are Dutch, it is an advantage
22:23over other uh competitors. A lot of
22:26foreign competitors, Temu etcetera.
22:28>> Uh they don't know how the Dutch market
22:30works. So you immediately have an
22:32advantage there if you just do it the
22:33right way. Actually, what you're saying
22:35is quite strong. Because you're Dutch,
22:37you actually already have an advantage,
22:38because you know how Dutch people think
22:40. So then you actually have a head
22:41start. And whereas abroad, you actually
22:43have a disadvantage. Yes, in any case,
22:46the biggest competitors now are an
22:48Amazon, a Temu, a Shein. Uh those are
22:51actually the biggest advertisers,
22:53competitors, and where most people buy
22:55things. So those are actually your
22:57first competitors that you have to beat
22:59.
22:59>> Yes.
23:00>> And just being Dutch is an immediate
23:02advantage. Now, a lot of people who do
23:06dropshipping or e-com have such a nice
23:08whiteboard hanging on the wall and it
23:11says 1k month, 10k month, 100k month.
23:14Well, the first one we can start
23:15crossing off. That 10k per month we can
23:18also start crossing off. Then the next
23:20goal is to go 10 times bigger and go
23:22for that 100k month.
23:24>> Yes,
23:25>> it becomes the most it is actually that
23:26every goal needs a different vehicle.
23:28>> Yes. So if you are going for 100k per
23:31month, then you have to take yourself a
23:33bit seriously. Because 100k is a lot of
23:35money.
23:36>> Mm hm.
23:36>> Also in terms of uh how customers look
23:38at you, how authorities look at you. So
23:40I would definitely uh yeah, pay
23:42attention to that. And you really have
23:44to have a product that delivers some
23:46kind of value to your customers. So the
23:49product must do what you advertise. The
23:53product must come across as very
23:54transparent regarding how fast you ship
23:57things, how transparent with customer
23:59communication.
24:00>> Yes.
24:02>> And because if you really want to make
24:04a real business out of it every single
24:06month, and you want to work on it
24:07full-time, then you have to transfer a
24:09bit of money to yourself every month.
24:12And if you then, well, keep going up
24:14and down, that is not sustainable. And,
24:18well, I would definitely do that
24:20regardless. And as for how you continue
24:23, if you look at your strategy of
24:25bringing something from America to the
24:27Netherlands, and the product isn't
24:29entirely, let's say, a scam.
24:32>> Yes,
24:33>> then you can look at, okay, how can you
24:35improve this? So, how can you improve
24:37the first few things? Can you, for
24:38example, arrange faster shipping? Can
24:40you keep inventory with your supplier
24:42in, for example, China? Then things go
24:44faster. How can you create a bit more
24:47content? How can you tap into trends a
24:51bit more, for example, Black Friday,
24:53etc.? How can you keep the
24:54communication with the customer good so
24:56that they might come back again? And
24:58how can you, for example, also look at
25:00other platforms, like Google or other
25:03platforms? And I would say, if you want
25:05to reach 100K in revenue, you won't get
25:08away with just organic. So you really
25:10need an engine. And those engines are
25:13usually the big advertising platforms.
25:15>> Yes.
25:16>> To be able to do that constantly. And
25:18advertising platforms just need new
25:20creative things continuously. If you
25:22look at Instagram, every new swipe,
25:24every new scroll is something new. So
25:27you really have to keep pumping in new
25:30things to just keep hitting that 100k
25:31per month. If you're being honest, did
25:35you ever consciously choose your
25:36business bank, or did it just happen
25:38because you were already doing your
25:40private banking there?
25:41>> For most people, it's the latter. One
25:43tick box during your chamber of
25:44commerce registration. Never looked at
25:47it again.
25:47>> While the business world has truly
25:49changed in the meantime. You invoice
25:50differently, your team has grown, maybe
25:52you work abroad.
25:53>> And your bank still does exactly the
25:55same thing as 5 years ago. Days waiting
25:57for an extra card, weeks for a foreign
25:59account, an exchange rate that quietly
26:01has a margin on it. At Revolut Business
26:03, you exchange in more than 25
26:05currencies at the interbank rate. And
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26:13a few minutes, get a Dutch IBAN, and
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26:17correct transaction in your accounting
26:19program. And in the meantime, your
26:21balance earns up to 1.75%interest per
26:23year. And that is a lot better than it
26:25just sitting there while inflation eats
26:26away at it.
26:27>> Every month, over 30,000 companies
26:29choose Revolut Business, and they score
26:31a 4.9 out of 5 for customer
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26:43immediately.
26:43>> Suppose you've reached that 10k per
26:45month, or that 10k month, you've
26:47achieved it. Great. Um, you had a
26:51certain strategy for that. You also
26:53mentioned that organic content, yeah,
26:55at 100k, that becomes quite difficult.
26:58Um, but we are still, you know, in the
27:0010k mindset, and someone needs to get
27:03to that 100k. What would you adjust in
27:07that first week?
27:09>> I would definitely launch
27:11advertisements.
27:12>> Yeah.
27:12>> On, uh, on platforms like Facebook,
27:15Google, et cetera.
27:16>> All at the same time? Um, yeah,
27:19basically if you launch on Facebook,
27:22you can also launch on, for example,
27:24YouTube Shorts. You can, uh, you have
27:27many other platforms where you can just
27:29launch the same video. You immediately
27:32get, uh, yeah, a new audience.
27:34>> Mm-hmm.
27:34>> And in principle, I would really focus
27:37on one platform.
27:38>> Mm-hmm.
27:38>> So, really optimize everything. Yeah.
27:41How you do things, create ads, et
27:43cetera. Focus on one platform first and
27:45only then focus on other platforms. And
27:49I would also definitely run very simple
27:51search campaigns for Google, because
27:53there are a lot of people who, once you
27:55make some revenue, want to steal your
27:56customers. So I would just protect that
27:59by doing so.
28:01>> So it is the case that if you say, "Hey
28:04, for example, Meta is my primary."
28:08Make sure you get good at that first.
28:11If that's running well, then you go to
28:13those other platforms.
28:14>> Yeah.
28:14>> Okay. So don't turn on all those other
28:17platforms from the start in that first
28:18week.
28:19>> No, no, I would focus on just one.
28:21>> Yeah.
28:22>> If that runs well, and it hits your
28:24targets.
28:25>> So you have to at least not just
28:26minimally—
28:28>> break even, so at least just, uh, not
28:30make a loss—
28:31>> and only then is it running okay. And
28:33then you can slowly optimize, improve,
28:35adjust budgets, targeting, et cetera.
28:38Until you are just consistently
28:39profitable.
28:40>> And you indicate, "No, once you are
28:42breaking even, you can then move on
28:44more to those other platforms." But I
28:46think, break even? Yeah, that's nice.
28:48But you can't really do anything with
28:50that, right? You really should have
28:52about 10%, 20%, 30%, preferably 40%
28:54profit and have really mastered it
28:56before you move on to those other
28:58platforms. Yeah, for sure. So I would
29:00really focus on Meta, or at least if
29:02your choice is Meta, yes, in this case,
29:05>> I would just focus until it’s running
29:07really consistently, and then you can
29:09do other platforms. But imagine you
29:12have all day to work on it. Basically,
29:14all those other platforms are the same.
29:18The only problem is you have to spend
29:20before the revenue comes in. So it’s
29:22possible you might lose money on other
29:24platforms. That’s why it’s
29:26important to become profitable on one
29:28ad platform first, and only then...
29:30>> yes,
29:31>> move on to the others.
29:33>> Yes.
29:34>> How profitable do you need to be? Just
29:36break even, you say, or do you really
29:38need to set a certain percentage before
29:40you go to the others? I think break
29:43even is normal, but a real break even,
29:45because many people think they are
29:47richer than they are.
29:48>> They see: "Hey, I still have to pay VAT
29:50on this.""My bank account is growing.""
29:53So I'm doing well.""Let's scale up now.
29:55" But you really have to keep track of
29:57whether the profit is actually the
29:58profit you think it is.
30:00>> And nine times out of 10, after all the
30:02people who return products and do
30:04chargebacks, et cetera...asking for
30:06refunds.
30:07>> Yeah,
30:07>> you usually have a bit less profit than
30:09you think. Okay, if we break that down,
30:11because this is really a sticking point
30:14where I think, yeah, it's nice that you
30:16say this now, but okay. Yeah, refunds,
30:18okay, written down. Take that into
30:20account next time. Yeah, VAT,
30:21approximately. Yeah, okay. We are
30:24talking about a Dutch company, right?
30:25>> Yes.
30:26>> Um, how could people do that in a
30:30concrete way? So, point by point, what
30:32do people need to take into account? So
30:34you have your ads, you run them, you
30:37have sales. What are the numbers you
30:39should be looking at? What things still
30:40need to be deducted? What all do you
30:43need to keep in mind?
30:44>> Yes. I would definitely check the ROAS.
30:46So how much comes back for every euro
30:48you put into the ad platform?
30:51>> Yes,
30:51>> usually, because you probably also have
30:53some organic sales, that sort of thing,
30:55it isn't really very clear. So I would
30:57really look at when you see higher
30:59budgets, okay, how much is coming back
31:02from the spend I'm doing, and usually
31:04platforms also have good tracking. So
31:06what you can best do is actually
31:08install a third-party app. Um, that app
31:12can probably provide better insight
31:14into how much money each ad platform is
31:16actually bringing in. Um, I would also
31:19download a profit app. So that profit
31:22app simply shows exactly what the costs
31:24are per product, how much you spend on
31:26ads, and what is ultimately left over.
31:28Then it's very easy. No need to
31:29calculate it with a sheet. So then you
31:31can just look at your app every day.
31:33You might also see on your phone, okay,
31:36I made € 3,000 in revenue with an ad
31:39budget of X, and the profit is maybe
31:41€ 300. Okay, great. But tomorrow you
31:44might make a € 300 loss. So then you
31:46need to have € 300 in profit to cover
31:48that € 300 loss. And then maybe after
31:50a week, you have a few days of € 300
31:52profit, a few days of € 300 loss.
31:54Then you might end up with maybe €
31:55200 in profit. And once that's running
31:57smoothly, then you can look at, okay,
31:59how can I optimize it? How can I adjust
32:01things? Can I, for example—what's
32:04important is that the amount each
32:05customer spends on your website must be
32:08the maximum, because then you can spend
32:10more, have higher profit margins, and
32:12then you can optimize again. So, I
32:15would definitely look at how you can
32:17get more from one customer once it's
32:19running consistently.
32:20>> That could be, for example, by
32:23>> adding bundles. So one product is €
32:2530, two products € 60, three products
32:28, whatever. And I would also give an
32:30incentive as to why people should buy
32:32those two or three. That would be one
32:34of the easiest things to simply get
32:36more revenue from every person. What
32:38you can also do is have someone buy
32:40again after they've already purchased.
32:42That can be done, for example, via
32:44emails, that can be done via
32:45post-purchase upsells and those kinds
32:47of things. And you just have to start
32:49optimizing how can I ensure that every
32:51customer who comes to my website spends
32:53the maximum amount with me after paying
32:55. If you look at maximizing spending,
33:01what would you implement first?
33:05>> Bundles.
33:06>> The bundles. Yes.
33:07>> And then offer discounts on them.
33:09>> Yes. So imagine your product, one
33:12product sells for € 30, 2 for € 45,
33:153 for € 60.
33:17>> Yes.
33:17>> And then people think, "Hey, this is
33:19such a good deal." It's almost stupid
33:22not to take that deal.
33:23>> So don't throw around 5%or 10%discounts
33:25, it can be a bit more than that.
33:27>> Yeah, I would do big discounts.
33:29>> Yeah,
33:30>> In the Netherlands, anyway, everyone
33:31loves a buy-one-get-one-free.
33:33>> Yeah,
33:33>> so that’s eh
33:34>> buy-one-get-one-free, eh then the whole
33:36garage fills up, right?
33:38>> Yeah,
33:38>> you know that. At least if I listen to
33:41most women, then, eh, that often
33:43happens. Yeah,
33:44>> nice. If we go back a bit to, um, the
33:47tools you use to be able to get those
33:50figures, for example. You just
33:52mentioned a profit app, for example. Um
33:55, which apps are those exactly? What
33:57are those basic apps?
33:59>> Yes. So you have, eh, tracking tools
34:01for profit. That’s, for example,
34:04BeProfit. You also have others; if you
34:06just look on Google or Shopify app
34:08stores for a Profit Tool, you have
34:10thousands. I would pick the cheapest
34:12one.
34:12>> Hm.
34:12>> I don't happen to know right now which
34:14one is the cheapest. I would just pick
34:16one specifically for tracking. Eh, I
34:19happen to know that Wracked is a
34:20sponsor of this video.
34:22>> I use it myself, eh
34:25>> I don't use it myself, but eh I’ve
34:27heard that it’s good, so I would go
34:29with that.
34:30>> It’s not used here, but you guys are
34:32great. That
34:33>> so, so, eh, you can use that for a few
34:36euros a month, I think.
34:37>> What do you use?
34:39>> Eh, we built our own tool with, eh, AI.
34:42>> Nice, man. Took a lot of time?
34:45>> Yes.
34:45>> Yeah.
34:46>> Yeah.
34:46>> Underestimated.
34:48>> Yeah.
34:48>> Yeah. Yeah.
34:49>> Yes.
34:50>> Claude code.
34:50>> Yes.
34:51>> A bit of vibe coding.
34:52>> No, just Claude code. Yeah.
34:54>> Yeah. Yeah. Then we have vibe code, so
34:56to speak. That’s a bit like you, eh,
34:59you basically type your code. So
35:01normally, with coding, you really have
35:03to
35:03>> No, usually Claude really has very good
35:06tools. It understood immediately when
35:07you said I want to copy this, I want to
35:09track it this way.
35:10>> Yeah.
35:10>> Then, eh,
35:11>> I can build it all for you.
35:12>> Yeah. Yeah, also with those connections
35:14and such. That’s not, not very
35:15difficult. You have to, you know, you
35:17want to go from that 10k to 100k. Eh,
35:19I’ve also spoken to a few people who,
35:21eh, they aren't as far along as you are
35:23, but yeah, they actually talk about AI
35:26all day while running an e-com business
35:28. Um, how important is it if you really
35:32want to grow from that 10k to start
35:34implementing AI?
35:37>> I don't know a single company that has
35:39replaced an entire department with AI.
35:43I don't know a single company. AI can
35:45certainly increase your productivity,
35:47but it cannot replace you. What many
35:49people say is, yeah, all jobs, etc.,
35:51will be gone. But one person with AI
35:54can replace 10 people,
35:56>> but not an entire department. You still
35:58need your input to make AI perform well
36:00. I also think that AI isn't that
36:04important. Certainly not in the
36:06beginning stages. You should just do
36:07everything right, do the basics, and do
36:09that consistently. That is simply the
36:11most important thing.
36:12>> Okay. The 10k. A few months in,
36:17you’ve hit 10k in a row. Great. It
36:19gets a bit, you get a bit more
36:21self-confidence. That’s nice. Should
36:23you also start thinking about having
36:24your own stock? Because we’re moving
36:26away from dropshipping now, right? So,
36:28do we need to think about whether we
36:29want a fulfillment center? Do we—
36:31everyone prefers everything in-house,
36:33right? Yeah, that really depends on the
36:35type of entrepreneur. But I've heard it
36:37all before. No, at € 10,000 I
36:40wouldn't take on stock, because the
36:42risk is too high. You don't know if
36:44your product will still sell next month
36:46or tomorrow.
36:47>> Yeah,
36:47>> so I wouldn't take any risks there.
36:49>> No, so no stock, no fulfillment.
36:53>> No,
36:53>> don't even think about it.
36:55>> No, I would only think about that once
36:57you're really at that 100k per month.
36:59You have the ads, which you are going
37:01to test. Break even, and then you move
37:03on to other channels. Webshop, you have
37:05your strategy to ensure that the
37:07customer's lifetime value actually gets
37:10a bit higher, making it easier to
37:12expand faster. Um, what else do we need
37:15?
37:17>> Um, yeah, you actually need a kind of
37:19machine to just continuously add new
37:22things to your business. So let's say
37:25you're selling a hair growth product.
37:28So what can you add to that? So you can
37:30think about, for example, I’m going
37:32to sell a comb, I'll also sell a
37:34shampoo with it, and then I’ll turn
37:36that into a deal so you can add it
37:38again after the bundles, and add it
37:40after you buy. So you really have to
37:43look at products that are easy to add
37:45so your customer gets more value.
37:46>> Yeah.
37:47>> So like I said, for example with hair
37:49growth, you can add combs, this, etc.,
37:51those kinds of things. And also other
37:53things, like okay, I’m selling a hair
37:55oil. Um, use conditioner in this way
37:58too, and then really bring a story
38:00about why that conditioner belongs with
38:02it. And I would definitely do that
38:04post-purchase, because you already have
38:05that money in. So, you’ve already
38:07made that revenue. You would really
38:10have to do some very bad things for
38:11them not to want that anymore. So, I
38:14would really just focus on that. And
38:17you have many tools, like AfterSell.
38:20>> Very good tool. Also, one-click upsell,
38:23things like that that you can set up,
38:25and it's basically just free revenue.
38:30Those are indeed useful methods. If you
38:33then, well, this is quite nice for
38:36operations as well. What do you need to
38:39do for that?
38:41>> I would hire one cheap employee or an
38:43intern to handle your customer service.
38:46>> If you can get interns. Yeah.
38:48>> Yeah, that is often a bit more
38:49difficult, indeed. That is still
38:50possible.
38:51>> Yeah. And then I would have that person
38:53handle customer service.
38:54>> Customer service.
38:55>> Yes. I would look for help with that
38:57first.
38:58>> Help with looking. Why customer service
39:00? Because, in principle, it doesn't
39:03really add much value to your mission
39:06of going from 80k to 100k.
39:09>> Yeah.
39:10>> And you only have so many hours per day
39:12. And I think that's the easiest thing
39:15to find someone to handle for you.
39:18>> How much budget should you set aside to
39:20do something like that?
39:22>> Well, you have many tools like Upwork.
39:24Very good tool.
39:25>> You can find someone to help with that
39:28for 800 or 700 euros a month. It’s
39:30definitely not full-time, but you will
39:32have a lot less work.
39:33>> Yeah. And I would do that first.
39:36>> What I also noticed when hiring the
39:38first people was that I understood
39:39absolutely nothing about it. For one,
39:42that was, for example, someone I wanted
39:44to hire physically. I thought, yeah,
39:47everything involved is such a hassle,
39:49and I’m spending more time trying to
39:51understand Dutch labor laws than I am
39:53actually hiring someone. That’s one.
39:56Two, Upwork was a bit easier. But even
40:00then. Yeah, I have all these different
40:03countries, different prices, different
40:05reviews.
40:06>> Yeah.
40:06>> What should I look for to find a good
40:08person? Well, Upwork, Fiverr, etc.,
40:11have already done a lot of the
40:13preliminary work. So, the people they
40:16recommend are already quite good. So, I
40:18would just hop on a call with them, ask
40:20some questions like, "how many tickets
40:22can you handle per hour?" and then look
40:24at your own business to see, "okay, how
40:26many tickets do I actually need?" And I
40:29would also occasionally check when you
40:31hire someone if they are actually
40:33delivering good answers or not.
40:35>> Yes.
40:36>> And for Upwork, you also have
40:37screenshots of a screen.
40:39>> Yes.
40:39>> Then you can see, okay, are they using
40:42AI to automate everything or not?
40:43>> Um,
40:45>> wait, you have a screenshot of the
40:46screen.
40:47>> Yes. So Upwork has a tool that, when
40:50they clock in, it just shows you what
40:52they are doing.
40:53>> I think that's been around for quite a
40:55few years now.
40:55>> Yeah, I haven't used it for a few years
40:57, but I do know that during the period
40:58I used it, I don't think it was there
41:00yet. Though, I have to say. It could
41:02have been four years ago, though.
41:03>> Ah, okay. Yes, okay.
41:05>> But that means you can also immediately
41:06see how they do it. Okay, check.
41:08>> Yeah,
41:08>> that's nice. Um, I still have it, right
41:11? You can hire someone and still doubt,
41:14yeah, are they performing well? Yes or
41:17no? How would you concretely judge, if
41:20we look at customer service, whether
41:22someone really meets the qualities to
41:24ensure that you can say, okay, customer
41:26service is nice, but I can actually
41:28manage it now without having to look
41:30over their shoulder every time?
41:33>> Yeah, I would look at how many tickets
41:35they handle per hour. So, not answered,
41:38but handled, because the goal is that
41:40your tickets, your customer's issues
41:42are just solved.
41:43>> And I would, yeah, a, what do you call
41:48it? Target of 20 tickets per hour. So,
41:52every hour that they
41:53>> clock in, they have to handle 20
41:55tickets. So that is about one every 3
41:59minutes. Okay. And if you look at it,
42:02you have customer service, do you, as
42:04you head towards that 100k per month,
42:06should you also start outsourcing other
42:08things? No, I wouldn't do that. I would
42:10just keep the rest to myself. Yes.
42:12>> Do you work long days then?
42:14>> Yes, but that's being an entrepreneur.
42:17If you don't understand something and
42:19you start outsourcing it from the
42:20beginning, then when you're bigger, you
42:22still won't understand it, and that
42:24person will probably take advantage of
42:26you.
42:26>> Yes. So, I would really have the ropes,
42:29the basics, down really well. Actually
42:32be the best in the industry. And then
42:35have people who help you. So don't hire
42:37people to take over the work, but hire
42:39people to help you do more of what you
42:41are already doing.
42:43>> Hm.
42:45>> What many people do is, let's say you
42:47have a media buyer and they manage your
42:49ads. You might have 1 to 2 hours of
42:52extra time now, but what many people do
42:54is just spend those 1 or 2 hours doing
42:56nothing, chilling, and thinking, "Okay,
42:59nice, it's going well." And then after
43:013 months, they say: "Hey, why isn't it
43:03working anymore?" Because you didn't
43:06put those 2 hours you freed up back
43:08into the business, so you actually
43:09haven't changed anything since before
43:11you hired them. You just have less
43:15profit.
43:15>> Yeah. So you actually have to see it as
43:17: people should help you do more with
43:19the same amount of time.
43:21>> Yeah, but what you also often see is
43:23that, okay, I delegate something, I
43:25save 2 hours, now I'm going to do other
43:27things, and then after a few months I
43:29see: "Hey, that guy messed it up." Now
43:31I have to pick that up again. But I've
43:32also already taken on a new project.
43:34>> Yeah. Yeah. So that person should help
43:36you do more of what you're already
43:38doing.
43:39>> Yeah. So when you are involved with,
43:41let's say, media buying, you look at
43:43reports every day to see how the media
43:46buying is going, and you actually check
43:48—at least for the first few months—
43:50how they are making decisions. Is it
43:52being done well? Is it being reported
43:54correctly, and so on? Yeah, then you
43:56can give that person a bit more freedom
43:58, but I would never just let them go
43:59and think, "It's outsourced, they're
44:01going to grow my business for me."
44:02>> I have never seen that. I have never
44:04spoken to anyone who hired someone who
44:07grew their business 10x, or even kept
44:09it the same, for at least 3 months. If
44:13you look at the highest priority to go
44:15from zero to, or from 10k to 100k, what
44:18is the number one priority you should
44:20focus on every single day?
44:23>> Yeah, so new ads, coming up with new
44:25angles, new ways to sell your product.
44:28>> Yeah. Or, yeah, finding a new way to
44:31generate more revenue from the same
44:33people.
44:34>> The ads part just remains...
44:36>> Yeah.
44:36>> Number one.
44:37>> If you're scrolling on Instagram, you
44:39keep getting
44:40>> to see new videos, even if you've done
44:42organic work in the past.
44:43>> You just have to post videos every day,
44:45and those keep getting new views all
44:47the time
44:47>> and those generate people going to your
44:49website.
44:50>> Yeah, so you have that part, uh, the
44:53ads, and you focus a lot on that. Did
44:56you outsource customer service? We've
44:58already added a few things to the
44:59webshop. Um, how do you really
45:01determine the price of your product?
45:05Well, you would look at how much
45:06competitors are roughly selling it for
45:08in other countries. Let's say your, uh,
45:11yeah, your strategy is what I said, you
45:13look at other countries and bring that
45:15to the Netherlands. They see if
45:16something is sold in America for $ 40,
45:18I'll just sell it for € 40 here. And
45:21you should also look at the costs. So
45:23if you see that it costs me about €
45:2515 to ship a product to the customer.
45:28>> Yes,
45:29>> then that's roughly times three with
45:31all the overhead included. And times
45:34three is, uh, safe, but you actually
45:36want even more margin. So actually even
45:39safer is that 25%of the revenue should
45:42be your product costs. So actually
45:44times four of the costs you have.
45:46>> Okay. Do we have everything for that
45:50100k?
45:50>> Yes.
45:52>> How long does it take to reach that
45:54100k?
45:57>> From 10k? I think 3 months.
46:00>> 3 months.
46:01>> The thing is, the problem is that
46:03people see: "Hey, this works. I want
46:05500k now. I want 20k a day now." And
46:09that's where a big problem arises,
46:11because you're actually burning what
46:13you've built.
46:13>> What do you mean?
46:14>> Uh, you burn your relationships with,
46:17for example, payment providers, with an
46:19ad platform, with the customers. The
46:21people who are too eager, who want it
46:23too fast, they have no business left
46:25after four months.
46:27>> Oh, okay. But what are you saying now?
46:29You say, first of all, payment
46:31providers. Why payment providers? What
46:33does that matter?
46:33>> Yeah, so, uh, many people who don't
46:35know you at all will order with, for
46:37example, PayPal. And PayPal, um, or
46:41actually the payment infrastructure. So
46:44if the customer isn't satisfied with
46:45your product or not satisfied with your
46:47, uh, customer service, you've only
46:49hired one customer service person, who
46:50can handle 20 tickets an hour, but you
46:52get 2000 tickets an hour. So you can't
46:54help everyone. Many people have no
46:56answer, have no help. What are they
46:57going to do? They're going to try to
46:59get their money back. What happens then
47:00is, uh, PayPal is already skeptical
47:02about you anyway, because they don't
47:03know you. You have a new business, just
47:05registered at the Chamber of Commerce
47:06yesterday. They think this person might
47:08not know what he's doing. Is he an
47:09opportunist or not?
47:10>> Yes.
47:11>> And is that the case? Okay. That person
47:13is only thinking about themselves. That
47:15, uh, damages the PayPal brand because
47:17they can't get their money back. You
47:20get claims on everything, and now your
47:22money is stuck and you're banned from
47:24the platform.
47:25>> Yeah.
47:25>> And that's something many people don't
47:27think about, because you want to scale
47:29too fast, too greedily, too much money
47:31comes into your account and then you go
47:32wrong. And a payment provider, uh...
47:38can't you just call them? Say: "Guys,
47:40uh, I'm just a person, uh, I wanted to
47:42scale up, it went a bit wrong. Sorry.""
47:44Yeah, it depends on how big the mistake
47:47is. If you see after three days
47:48immediately, hey, this is a very good
47:50product, very good video, it brings in
47:53a lot of revenue. I'm going to get the
47:55maximum out of it that I can. And you
47:57have 90%of your customers who are
47:58unhappy. And it's about € 200,000 in
48:01revenue. Yeah, for those providers,
48:03it's like, hey, I now have € 200,000
48:04in damages because of you.
48:06>> Yeah.
48:06>> And I just really don't want to be
48:08dealing with you. You should just bring
48:09me money automatically. We don't want
48:11to talk to you. We don't want you to
48:13have, uh, problems. Don't want to talk
48:14to customers. We just basically want
48:16you to have a normal business. People
48:18are happy and our thresholds, our
48:20internal systems, show that risk is not
48:22exceeded.
48:23>> Yeah. Which payment provider would you
48:26recommend yourself, or does it not
48:27matter much? Well, in the Netherlands
48:29you have iDEAL, obviously, and in
48:31Belgium you have Bancontact. Uh, you
48:34have, uh, credit cards, um, you have
48:36PayPal, which is also very popular in
48:38the Netherlands. You have Klarna.
48:40>> Yeah.
48:41>> You have a few other, uh, pay-later
48:43platforms.
48:44>> Do you know Wua-Wa payments?
48:46>> No.
48:47>> We happened to speak with them this
48:48week. They, uh, they are actually quite
48:51new, but they specifically ensure that
48:53you get your own account manager. And
48:56that account manager will then contact
48:58you like, hey, listen, customer
49:00satisfaction is not going well. If you
49:02keep going like this, you'll get a
49:04block soon.
49:05>> But they are actually a step ahead.
49:07>> Before you get blocked.
49:08>> Yeah, that's, uh, very good for
49:10beginners because they get a little
49:12warning.
49:13>> Yeah.
49:13>> Like, hey, take it easy.
49:15>> Uh, but usually when you already get
49:17the problems, it's already too late.
49:19>> You already have the revenue.
49:20>> You already spent it on assistants, and
49:22then it's actually already too late.
49:24Because either you go bankrupt, because
49:26you can't pay back the money.
49:27>> Yeah.
49:27>> Or you have to deliver things as
49:29quickly as possible and you have no
49:30capacity. So it's actually best to just
49:33grow slowly, by a maximum of 20%per day
49:36.
49:36>> A maximum of 20%per day.
49:38>> Yes,
49:38>> nice. I love those frameworks. It makes
49:41it all very practical. And, um, you
49:43just mentioned payment providers; were
49:44there other things you had to take into
49:46account if you scale too fast?
49:48>> Yes, so you have refunds, meaning
49:50customers will ask you:" Hey, I want my
49:52money back. I didn't get my product. "
49:54Um, I would also include your targets
49:56set in the ad platforms in your
49:58calculation.
49:59>> Yes.
50:00>> Um, if all of that is in order, then I
50:03would just, yeah, look further ahead.
50:06The relationship with ad platforms is
50:08also very important. Because the
50:11problem only arises when you get really
50:13big. So let's say € 200,000 in
50:15revenue per month. Then you're
50:18reasonably big to a lot of payment
50:19providers and ad platforms. Um, if
50:22you're scamming people on a large scale
50:24then, that's a big problem. Huh.
50:26>> So I would especially look at that. And
50:28also when you're generating a lot of
50:30revenue, you get a lot of dissatisfied
50:32customers and online reviews. Um, maybe
50:34, I don't know, a post on your, on your
50:36path, on your doorstep. And you don't
50:38want any of that. You also don't want
50:40to end up on the news. That also has a
50:43long-term effect on your, on your life,
50:45really. Every e-commerce entrepreneur
50:49has at some point shifted ad budget
50:51from Meta to Google because the results
50:53in Google looked better.
50:54>> If you feel addressed right now, listen
50:56closely, because we have news for you.
50:58Those two platforms, it might not be a
51:00surprise, but they don't always measure
51:02equally well. Meta and Google both miss
51:04a significant portion of your sales
51:05data, but not to the same extent. The
51:08figures you see weren't arrived at in
51:09the same way.
51:11>> So you shift the budget based on a
51:13difference that might not even exist.
51:15And that's how you squeeze the life out
51:16of a channel that was actually doing
51:18well.
51:18>> With Retrack, that won't happen anymore
51:20. It takes your sales directly from
51:22your own webshop and sends them back to
51:24Meta, Google, and TikTok. So every
51:26platform gets to see the same data.
51:28Your tracking goes from an average of
51:3040%to as high as 98%. And only then can
51:33you compare those channels fairly.
51:35>> And you see that reflected in the
51:36numbers. Because that's how you get up
51:38to twice as much revenue from the same
51:40ad budget.
51:40>> You connect it to your Shopify or
51:42WooCommerce store in a few minutes, and
51:44it just runs in your current dashboard.
51:46So get your tracking in order. Try Rack
51:48for 14 days for free using the link in
51:51the description.
51:53>> Yeah, shouldn't you also already
51:55account for, indeed, the reviews you
51:57get and a bit of, indeed, customer
51:59satisfaction? How, how well should you
52:02keep an eye on that?
52:03>> Yeah, so anyway, you'll get a lot of
52:05tickets coming in from your customer
52:07service.
52:07>> Yeah.
52:08>> Saying," Hey, uh, where is my product?
52:10"
52:11>> Yeah. But if you weren't transparent at
52:13the beginning about how long it takes,
52:15you'll get a lot of questions, and
52:17people immediately feel scammed.
52:18>> And when that whole, yeah, scam vibe
52:20reaches customers, customers start
52:22searching online—does anyone have
52:24experience with this product?—they go
52:26to Trustpilot, it's 1.3 stars.
52:28>> Yeah.
52:29>> With 2,000 reviews. They think," Oh
52:31[ __ ], I've been scammed. "What are they
52:33going to do then? So are they going to,
52:34uh, potentially contact the police? I
52:36don't know, contact their bank, contact
52:39PayPal." I want my money back. "" I've
52:41been scammed. "" Help me. "Because it's
52:43actually a chain reaction. Because the
52:45bigger the problem, the faster you get
52:47into trouble.
52:48>> Yeah.
52:49>> So I would just look at," Okay, I see a
52:51few bad reviews. What can we do to
52:52improve it? "Can we, for example, send
52:54emails after someone becomes a customer
52:56saying," Hey, it will take about 10
52:58days for the product to arrive. "" Uh,
53:00if you don't want that, contact us. "
53:02>> Hm. And
53:03>> then many people, because you already
53:05had that communication upfront, they're
53:07already quite happy with," Okay, I can
53:09wait about 10 days for my product. "
53:11>> Yeah.
53:11>> Rather than you doing it after the fact
53:13.
53:13>> Yeah. And
53:14>> also, a lot of people are actually very
53:16understanding, saying," Okay, yeah, I'm
53:17a small business. "" Uh, we ship the
53:19product from further away, outside of
53:21Europe, et cetera. "" Uh, yeah, can you
53:23be a bit patient? "" Can you, uh,
53:25accommodate us this time by not wanting
53:27a refund? "It's actually funny, because
53:31from 0 to 10k, you can sort of still
53:34choose. Am I going more ethical? Am I
53:36going more unethical, you know, just
53:38making money? Okay, fine. You know,
53:41again, I'm not judging, but it's just
53:43how the market is moving at the moment.
53:47Then you go from 10k to 100k, and then
53:49you're actually forced to start
53:51dropshipping more ethically.
53:53>> Yes, definitely if you want long long
53:55term. Yes,
53:56>> because that has benefits for uh for
53:58your entire shop.
53:59>> Yes,
54:00>> you ask. You also have a lot of shops
54:03indeed that uh are blown up. They move
54:05on to the next.
54:06>> Yes. Yes, that is the uh we call it the
54:10the the Rat Race mindset.
54:12>> Yes,
54:12>> so you continuously move to the next uh
54:15peak, the next dopamine hit. And then
54:18uh yes, you actually just leave behind
54:20a trail of all kinds of people who have
54:22been duped. And usually the products
54:24you sell are also a bit more
54:25unrealistic, do things that aren't
54:27actually possible. Hm
54:28>> hm.
54:29>> And yes, so yes, then you actually fall
54:31into the fast money uh trap that I've
54:33seen a lot of people in.
54:35>> Yes,
54:35>> also on a large scale. a lot of talents
54:38uh see them fail because of the fast
54:39money.
54:41>> Yes. And and
54:45>> is that maybe it sounds weird, but is
54:47that wrong?
54:48>> Uh depends on your goal. If your goal
54:50is I just want to earn money right now.
54:51I don't care about anything else. I was
54:53uh I am uh yes homeless. I am homeless.
54:56I want money now. I need to go to my
54:58house tomorrow. Yes, you can't really
55:00blame those people for thinking that
55:01way. But when you are at 100k revenue,
55:03you are actually just a professional
55:05company to everyone. To the outside
55:08world, to the customers. They just
55:09expect that when you can generate €
55:11100,000 revenue per month, that you can
55:13think a little bit about how you're
55:14going to approach this long term.
55:16>> Yes. And then it just becomes important
55:18to take yourself a bit seriously and to
55:20think okay yes,
55:21>> a bit of standards and values is fine.
55:23So yes, 100k are we at that 100k month.
55:29>> Yes.
55:30>> Yes, it took a long time man. 6 months.
55:33Wow, I've been at it for 7 years and uh
55:35we now now we've been at 100k months
55:38for a while, so I'm super happy with
55:40that. It's of course a different Yes,
55:42thank you. It's of course a different
55:44type of company, right? But uh
55:46>> but with dropshipping indeed you reach
55:48that on average a bit faster. I
55:50remember back in the day it was special
55:52in the dropship world or the brand
55:54world to have a 10k month. Well then at
55:56a certain point 100k became special.
55:58Now meanwhile, well, the 100 million uh
56:01year, if you haven't achieved that, boy
56:03, then you don't count.
56:05>> Yes.
56:05>> Eh but okay let's start. 100k month.
56:08Bam. You achieve it. I'm curious, first
56:12of all, would you throw a party or
56:13would you say guys, we just have to
56:15keep pushing? I would take a moment of
56:19silence there to reflect, okay, are we
56:21going to make this something full-time
56:24now or is it just, yeah, short-term.
56:26>> Yeah,
56:27>> I’m definitely going to pause and
56:29reflect on every milestone, because the
56:31best part is just that you’re growing
56:32. The journey there is much more fun
56:34than actually having it.
56:36>> Yeah,
56:36>> so I would definitely take some time to
56:38reflect, like okay, all those moments
56:40where you’ve struggled through the
56:42nights, etc. I am now where I dreamed
56:45of being, and that usually gives you
56:47that push to potentially push even
56:49further. Yeah.
56:50>> And that’s usually what I see with a
56:51lot of people.
56:52>> Yeah. And then, uh a day of partying, a
56:55week of partying. What would that look
56:57like for you?
56:58>> I would—I would do a day.
56:59>> A day.
57:00>> Yeah.
57:00>> What would such a day look like?
57:02>> Uh yeah, it’s different for everyone
57:05how they celebrate. Yeah. No, for you.
57:08No. I would just, I don’t know, call
57:10friends and family and say," Hey,
57:11I’ve achieved this. "
57:13>> Yeah.
57:13>> We can just relax, we can celebrate it
57:15together. Et cetera.
57:16>> Yeah.
57:17>> And then, on to the next.
57:20>> You know, I actually have trouble with
57:22that myself, like for example, telling
57:24my parents about what kind of revenue
57:26we’re generating. Yeah, sometimes we
57:28make a podcast and we literally lay it
57:30out there, like," Hey, we generated
57:32this much, "you know, we do that in the
57:34podcast. But telling my parents, for
57:35instance, that’s not something I do
57:37very easily. Yeah, usually parents
57:39don’t really understand what 100,000
57:40in revenue actually is. It sounds like
57:42so much money.
57:43>> No. Yeah,
57:44>> a house is, I don’t know, a few
57:45hundred thousand already.
57:46>> Yeah.
57:47>> And that’s basically someone’s life
57:48goal. So if you then generate €
57:50100,000 per month in revenue, it’s
57:51actually unrealistic to understand how
57:53much revenue that is, how much money
57:54that is.
57:55>> Yeah,
57:55>> if you look at how many 100,000 people
57:58are, then you have three, four
58:00buildings full of people. And a lot of
58:03people don’t understand how big that
58:04is. Exactly. I would tell your family
58:07more once you really have something
58:09physical. Well, let’s say an office,
58:12people working, then it’s more for
58:14real and people take that person more
58:15seriously with what they’re doing.
58:18>> Yeah. Do you already have an office
58:20with 100k per month in one month? One
58:22month, not per month yet, but hit 100k
58:24for one month. Bam. Do we have an
58:26office then?
58:26>> Do you have an office, or are we still
58:27in the sunroom?
58:28>> Oh no, no, you're still in the sunroom.
58:30>> Yeah.
58:31>> Yeah.
58:31>> [ __ ] man. Have you at least taken a
58:33trip to Bali?
58:34>> 100k. Yeah. Or do I still need to focus
58:37?
58:37>> No, you still need to focus. Yeah, I
58:39could go to Spain perhaps.
58:40>> Spain, sure. Yeah. Yeah, but stick
58:43within Europe for now. I agree with
58:46that.
58:46>> Maybe maybe a day in London.
58:48>> A day in London.
58:49>> A day in Barcelona.
58:50>> Let's go. Let's go. Well, we celebrated
58:53it. We have to get back to work man. I
58:56have no clue, man. I want to want to go
58:59to 1 million a month. We're going to do
59:0110x again. I feel even more
59:03uncomfortable now eh to achieve that.
59:06But yeah, you know what it is? I have
59:08proven to myself if I can go from 10 to
59:10100, I can also go from 100 to 1
59:13million.
59:13>> The only question is
59:15>> how are we going to do that?
59:17>> Yeah, it's easier than from 10 to 100k
59:20consistently. Eh so that is eh good.
59:23Yeah, that's a good eh good start.
59:25>> Ehm 1 million. Now you are really a
59:28serious company.
59:29>> Yeah. You have to think about things
59:31you've never thought about. Eh
59:33authorities expect a certain
59:35responsibility. Ehm a lot of things you
59:38got away with before, you can't anymore
59:40.
59:41>> Hm.
59:42>> You now also have more eh power over a
59:44lot of things, like a eh platform or a
59:47PSP provider. Eh a lot of people really
59:51want to work with you, like a stripe or
59:53something, etcetera. So at that moment
59:56eh you have yeah your whole life has
59:58actually changed.
59:59>> Your whole business looks different.
1:00:01>> And you also have many more customers,
1:00:03many more things to worry about. And
1:00:06you really just need a serious team for
1:00:08that. That's beautiful. Okay. You
1:00:12already mentioned authorities.
1:00:14>> Yes.
1:00:15>> What what kind of authorities do you
1:00:16mean?
1:00:17>> So ehm if you make 1 million in monthly
1:00:19revenue and you make a certain claim.
1:00:21>> Yes. Imagine, you sell a supplement and
1:00:25you say eh Fat burner, eh then you
1:00:27actually have to have tested that
1:00:29product to see if it actually burns
1:00:31your fat.
1:00:32>> Yes.
1:00:33>> And otherwise you are not allowed to
1:00:35use that and otherwise you will be eh
1:00:37tackled by eh authorities.
1:00:39>> Other things, for example, if you don't
1:00:41pay your taxes and such on time. If you
1:00:45don't issue refunds on time, you'll see
1:00:47customers starting lawsuits against you
1:00:49. They'll all start working together
1:00:52with collection agencies. Because it's
1:00:54such a big problem if you don't do it
1:00:56right, you'll be tackled immediately.
1:00:58>> Yeah.
1:00:59>> So, you definitely need a large team.
1:01:01People who just work full-time on your
1:01:03business. At 100k, you might have still
1:01:05had that one customer service guy
1:01:07helping you out. Now you just have an
1:01:09entire team of customer support with
1:01:12managers reporting, hiring people,
1:01:14onboarding, and training. And you also
1:01:16need other team members, for example,
1:01:18to keep an eye on your logistics. You
1:01:20have other team members who, for
1:01:22instance, monitor the ad comments. What
1:01:25kind of ads are being put live? Hm. You
1:01:27have a team that just executes with a
1:01:29certain vision behind it. You have a
1:01:32team that is constantly working on how
1:01:34to improve the product, which new
1:01:36markets to penetrate, what new angles,
1:01:38what new marketing strategies we can
1:01:40use. For example, are we going to work
1:01:42with a big celebrity in the Netherlands
1:01:44or not? And how are we going to keep
1:01:46bringing it to the customers? What
1:01:47sales periods are we going to have?
1:01:50What new improvements can we make to
1:01:52the product so customers keep coming
1:01:54back? So, it really is a serious
1:01:57company now, and you're likely working
1:01:59on it full-time, plus maybe 10 or more
1:02:01people working on it full-time as well.
1:02:03Do you still have time for a girlfriend
1:02:05, or?
1:02:05>> No, no, relationships broken, just
1:02:08fully focused on the business.
1:02:10>> Yeah.
1:02:11>> Okay. Well, I wouldn't have expected
1:02:12anything else as an entrepreneur. You
1:02:14have peaks and valleys. I'm happy in
1:02:16this story that we haven't really had
1:02:17any major valleys yet. So I think we'll
1:02:19skip those as well.
1:02:20>> Yeah.
1:02:20>> Um, you have your team. Okay. How many
1:02:22people do you have roughly then?
1:02:24Because you mentioned a number, but
1:02:25around 10 people?
1:02:26>> At least 10. Yeah.
1:02:27>> At least 10.
1:02:28>> Okay. Full-time. 10 people in the
1:02:31Netherlands? Or do you say, listen, I
1:02:33use other countries because it's
1:02:35cheaper?
1:02:36>> Yeah, using those. The talent is also a
1:02:38bit more broad.
1:02:40>> And it's quite difficult to find the
1:02:42specific talent you need. Customer
1:02:43support would be fine, but support
1:02:45requires such a low skill level to do
1:02:47well. You can just best do that in
1:02:49other countries, for example.
1:02:51>> Okay, check. And what exactly did you
1:02:53say regarding the team setup? Who and
1:02:55what do you need where?
1:02:56>> Yeah, so you definitely have, I think,
1:02:58three customer support reps with a
1:03:00manager.
1:03:00>> Yeah,
1:03:01>> who are just busy with your customer
1:03:02service every single day.
1:03:04>> Yeah,
1:03:04>> you have one person who is busy with
1:03:06logistics, at least one person who just
1:03:08maintains good relationships with the
1:03:10factories, with 3PLs, et cetera.
1:03:12>> They go to China every month to shoot
1:03:14content.
1:03:14>> Yeah, not every month. I think once a
1:03:16year is good enough.
1:03:17>> Okay.
1:03:18>> Uh and then you have a creative team.
1:03:19>> Mm-hmm. So you have a team that just—
1:03:22you're probably on top of it yourself,
1:03:24too, because finding that talent is
1:03:25quite difficult. You determine which
1:03:29ads, which angles, which sales, which
1:03:31influencers, which products are being
1:03:33launched. And you pass that on to your
1:03:36team. Your team executes that. You
1:03:38supervise the team. Is it all going
1:03:40well? And how can you, in principle, do
1:03:42more of that? Because you have to keep
1:03:45coming up with new things to keep it
1:03:47consistent.
1:03:48>> Yeah. Ads.
1:03:52>> You have ads, you have new products,
1:03:55you have, yeah, upsells, optimizations.
1:03:58Uh, your landing pages need to be
1:04:00optimized. You have to look at which
1:04:03new angles I can use to penetrate the
1:04:05market now.
1:04:06>> Uh, which advertising platforms are new
1:04:08and hot right now? What can I jump on?
1:04:10Which ones don't I have yet? What can I
1:04:12focus on more? So it is really, uh
1:04:14>> it's a lot of things, man. Yeah, I
1:04:17>> would love to jump on everything, but
1:04:19okay, let's refocus like we just did.
1:04:21You've hit that 100k month, you've
1:04:23celebrated it, bam, you wake up, you
1:04:26think:" Okay, what is my highest
1:04:28priority to work on now, so I can reach
1:04:30my goal of a million? "What is the
1:04:33first and most important thing you're
1:04:34going to tackle?
1:04:36>> So you're definitely going to ensure
1:04:38that more people see your ads.
1:04:40>> Mm-hmm. So whether it's organic,
1:04:43whether it's ads, whether it's whatever
1:04:45, you have to make sure that many more
1:04:48people see your ads. And a lot of
1:04:50people also have different types of
1:04:51interests. I might be interested in
1:04:54losing weight.
1:04:56>> Mm-hmm.
1:04:56>> Uh, but someone else is interested in
1:04:59more educational content. Someone else
1:05:01is interested in just seeing the end
1:05:03result of what you're selling. Mm-hmm.
1:05:06>> So you need to have many types of ads
1:05:08live and running to show all those
1:05:10people your ad again every 24 hours.
1:05:12>> Mm-hmm.
1:05:13>> So then you need a large team to just
1:05:15continuously keep feeding every angle
1:05:17with new things.
1:05:19>> How many campaigns do you have live?
1:05:22>> Um, you can, you can just have one
1:05:25campaign.
1:05:25>> Yeah,
1:05:26>> only you just need different types of
1:05:28angles.
1:05:29>> Okay.
1:05:30>> I actually wanted to ask how many ads
1:05:32you have live at that moment.
1:05:34>> I
1:05:34>> Yeah. Uh 1,000 plus
1:05:36>> at the moment.
1:05:37>> Yeah.
1:05:37>> And then, and uh that wasn't really a
1:05:40question, but cool, 1,000 plus. And
1:05:42then if you go back to that 100k to get
1:05:44to that 1 million, about how many ads
1:05:46do you need to have live? Yeah, it
1:05:48really depends on your target audience,
1:05:50because one audience can just be so big
1:05:52with one specific problem that just one
1:05:54ad is enough.
1:05:54>> Okay. Uh let's say we go back to weight
1:06:00loss and we have those specific GLP-1,
1:06:02um Ozempic side effects. Quite a big
1:06:07niche.
1:06:07>> So if you take one side effect, because
1:06:09I've seen that, for example, people
1:06:11>> uh I don't know, have an issue with
1:06:12bone density or something. Let's say
1:06:14you have, I don't know, a certain
1:06:15supplement for that.
1:06:16>> Yeah. Collagen.
1:06:18>> Yeah. No,
1:06:20>> that's such a big niche that you can
1:06:22probably reach 100,000 people with just
1:06:24one photo ad.
1:06:26>> Yeah.
1:06:26>> So you could potentially generate €
1:06:28100,000 in revenue per month with one
1:06:30ad. So then you might only need 20 ads
1:06:33to be able to pull in 1 million a month
1:06:35. But how long will you be able to do
1:06:37that? Because more products are going
1:06:39to enter that market now after this
1:06:41call
1:06:41>> uh after this meeting, yeah, another
1:06:431,000 people will jump on that. So
1:06:45there will be more competition. Many
1:06:47people will make those ads and many
1:06:48people will see those ads before they
1:06:50see yours. So then you have to, okay,
1:06:52how are we going to handle this now?
1:06:55>> Yeah,
1:06:55>> so then I think you need at least 500
1:06:58ads for 1 million per month.
1:07:00>> You just indicated, I don't know if
1:07:02it's calculated that way, but you say a
1:07:04reach of 100,000 people is about €
1:07:07100,000 in revenue.
1:07:08>> Yeah.
1:07:10>> Is that a one-on-one kind of framework
1:07:11that we can filter out?
1:07:13>> Yes. So if you, yeah, in principle,
1:07:17every visitor should bring in at least
1:07:19€ 2.
1:07:21>> Yeah.
1:07:22>> Then you're doing well on Meta.
1:07:23>> And a visitor, that is someone who
1:07:25comes to your landing page.
1:07:26>> Yeah. Someone who clicks on your ad.
1:07:28>> Yes, exactly. But someone before they
1:07:30click, you're saying 50%conversion from
1:07:32your ad?
1:07:33>> Uh no no, that's much lower. The only
1:07:36problem is, uh, Meta targets the same
1:07:39person multiple times before they click
1:07:41.
1:07:42>> Yeah. So they need a certain amount of
1:07:44information before they're convinced
1:07:45enough to go look like, hey, what is
1:07:47this?
1:07:47>> Hm.
1:07:47>> So you're going to see a lot of views,
1:07:49but they are the same people.
1:07:50>> Ah, so reach is still 100,000, but
1:07:52views can be
1:07:53>> 2, 3, 4 hundred thousand.
1:07:56>> What was, uh, what's a bit of the range
1:07:58, uh, of the ad?
1:08:00>> Uh, so if you look at, uh, hard numbers
1:08:02, a CPM in the Netherlands is about €
1:08:0510. So for € 10 you've reached 1,000
1:08:08people.
1:08:08>> Yeah. Uh, your, yeah, your page needs
1:08:11€ 2 per, yeah, per visitor. So out of
1:08:141,000 people, at least one person has
1:08:17to click.
1:08:17>> Yeah.
1:08:18>> So then you have a CTR, as you call it,
1:08:21of about 1 to 2%is roughly, uh, good.
1:08:24And it also depends, of course, on how
1:08:26much a person spends on your, on your,
1:08:29yeah, page. But if you take those
1:08:30benchmarks, then you're doing just fine
1:08:32.
1:08:32>> Nice man. I love this. We're making it
1:08:35really super concrete. Awesome. Um,
1:08:37then we have, indeed, the ads part
1:08:39covered, marketing part we've also
1:08:40covered. Hey, we were just talking
1:08:42about Meta, if you're breaking even,
1:08:44you go to other platforms like, for
1:08:46example, Google, YouTube, uh,
1:08:48>> TikTok,
1:08:49>> TikTok.
1:08:49>> You are big on TikTok. Um,
1:08:52>> hey, TikTok Shop, and Amazon, uh, you
1:08:54could say those are impressive, the
1:08:57numbers you're running on that at that
1:08:59moment. How would you then expand
1:09:01further to the other platforms? What
1:09:03are the strategies you would apply? I
1:09:04would definitely say, until you're
1:09:06doing 1 million, Facebook, Google is
1:09:08enough. So I wouldn't look beyond
1:09:10Facebook, Google. And with Google, you
1:09:12also have YouTube. YouTube is also a
1:09:14very big, uh, platform, but of course
1:09:16Meta is king. But YouTube can be about
1:09:1810%of your advertising budget. But you
1:09:20also have Google on top of that, adding
1:09:22another 20%.
1:09:23>> You have about 70%Meta, 30%Google.
1:09:26That's a good correlation.
1:09:27>> And with this, you can in principle
1:09:29>> already turn over 100 million plus per
1:09:31year if you, of course, have the market
1:09:33.
1:09:33>> Yeah. Uh, but because you're still in
1:09:36the Netherlands, you have to be seen
1:09:38from all sides because you actually
1:09:39need to reach everyone. I would
1:09:41definitely start looking at other
1:09:42countries at this moment as well.
1:09:44Germany is, of course, the first
1:09:46obvious one, the UK, uh, Scandinavia,
1:09:48and then, after that, you can look at
1:09:50English-speaking countries like, uh,
1:09:53Canada, maybe not America yet, and, uh,
1:09:55Australia and New Zealand.
1:09:57>> Yeah. And yes, if you can crack English
1:09:59markets too, then you're really in a
1:10:01good spot.
1:10:03>> Okay, so I'm going to copy-paste it to
1:10:05Germany.
1:10:05>> Yes.
1:10:06>> Is it going to work right away?
1:10:08>> Uh, nine times out of 10, yes.
1:10:10>> Yes.
1:10:11>> Yes. Just translate everything into
1:10:13German.
1:10:13>> Why?
1:10:14>> Uh, German payment providers. Look a
1:10:16bit at how the German side works. But
1:10:19they are slightly more cautious than
1:10:21the Dutch. And uh, they are still, yeah
1:10:23, less heavy on discounts, so the price
1:10:25needs to be a bit lower. And yeah, the
1:10:28market is just much bigger and also
1:10:29much more, yeah, PayPal/Klarna, because
1:10:31they are much, yeah, more skeptical.
1:10:33>> They are more skeptical.
1:10:35>> Uh, in the Netherlands you just have
1:10:36iDEAL.
1:10:37>> Yes.
1:10:37>> And anyway, they are very skeptical.
1:10:39They are going to do a lot of research
1:10:40>> before they buy from you. But
1:10:42>> reading terms and conditions and such.
1:10:43>> Uh, research. So they'll look at who
1:10:45you are, do you have good reviews, et
1:10:47cetera. That's somewhat true.
1:10:48>> And in Germany, they buy a bit faster,
1:10:51only
1:10:51>> they have that protection from PayPal,
1:10:53Klarna, et cetera. And then they are,
1:10:56yeah, always secured.
1:10:57>> Okay, check. So you just have to start
1:10:59by copy-pasting and then start
1:11:00optimizing from there.
1:11:01>> Yes, from the Netherlands to Germany.
1:11:03Yes.
1:11:04>> Yes, from the Netherlands to Germany,
1:11:05just basically copy it. So your webshop
1:11:07basically copy-paste it from
1:11:08>> Yes.
1:11:09>> as much as possible and then translate
1:11:10everything
1:11:11>> and just go live and then start
1:11:13optimizing and keep improving,
1:11:15improving, improving.
1:11:16>> Yes.
1:11:17>> Yes. High speed. So Germany, would you
1:11:20say, okay, Germany, make sure you break
1:11:22even there, and then move on to the
1:11:25next one.
1:11:25>> Yes. Yes. Yes. So I would, uh, you have
1:11:28Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, all
1:11:30German-speaking. So you immediately
1:11:33have, I don't know, 5 trillion in
1:11:35market. So times almost five times that
1:11:37of the Netherlands. So you have five
1:11:39times more people, five times more
1:11:41money to turn over.
1:11:42>> Yes. Uh, I would just do that all in
1:11:44German. Break even and then optimize
1:11:46what works well in Germany. And what
1:11:49I've seen from my experience is that
1:11:51Germans are less keen on discounts, but
1:11:53pay more attention to the price.
1:11:54>> Yes. Yes. Hey, I also have it here, hey
1:11:58, can a webshop do € 1 million in
1:12:00revenue per month and at the same time
1:12:02have almost no money in the bank?
1:12:04>> Yes,
1:12:06>> quick answer. Why? Because uh, if you
1:12:10are a bit risky, then many payment
1:12:12providers that actually pay out your
1:12:14revenue want to hold back a certain
1:12:16percentage for their risk.
1:12:19>> Yes.
1:12:19>> And if that is 10%, for example, and
1:12:21your profit is 10%, then the money
1:12:24comes in. € 100,000 in your account
1:12:26and then € 99,000 goes out again.
1:12:28>> Yes.
1:12:28>> And then if you just keep doing that
1:12:30continuously, then all of a sudden
1:12:31you've made, I don't know, 5 million in
1:12:32revenue. Then you might have € 5,000
1:12:34in your account.
1:12:35>> Yeah, that's a bit less.
1:12:36>> Yes. Or are you fine with that? Is that
1:12:38actually good?
1:12:39>> Uh, I would have to live off it anyway,
1:12:41so I don't know how much people spend,
1:12:44but uh, most people spend about €
1:12:463,000 a month.
1:12:47>> Yes.
1:12:48>> And you should actually prefer to have,
1:12:50yeah. Five times that in profit in your
1:12:52company before you pay it out to
1:12:53yourself.
1:12:54>> Okay, check. Uh, well, in the previous
1:12:57phase we were still in the attic.
1:12:59>> Yes.
1:13:00>> Still are. At 1 million, you do have an
1:13:03, uh, an attic with 10 people around
1:13:05you.
1:13:06>> Yes. The question of we work mainly
1:13:08remotely.
1:13:08>> Yes.
1:13:09>> So we don't actually need an office.
1:13:11>> Actually, uh, no, but yeah, it's
1:13:13preferred if you just get your most
1:13:15important people, three or four people,
1:13:17in a WeWork or in a Regus or something,
1:13:19>> gather there at least two, three weeks,
1:13:21three times a week,
1:13:22>> that really has an effect on your, uh,
1:13:24growth.
1:13:25>> Some people say," Hey, listen, I, uh, I
1:13:27want to be in Bali. "Smart.
1:13:29>> It depends on your goal; if your goal
1:13:31is," I want to have a lifestyle
1:13:33business. "I've never seen that. That
1:13:35survives for a long time.
1:13:37>> Okay. Bali is bad for returns.
1:13:40>> Yes. Yes.
1:13:41>> Okay.
1:13:42>> I do have a lot of, uh, yeah, people
1:13:44who sell information, for example.
1:13:46>> Yes.
1:13:46>> Uh, they do very well in Bali.
1:13:49>> Yes.
1:13:49>> Uh, but those who have a real business
1:13:51with a product. I've never seen them
1:13:53have a lifestyle, uh, one.
1:13:55>> Most just work at least 8 hours a day.
1:13:57>> It's because of the ads they make with
1:13:59the villa in the background, right?
1:14:00>> Yes.
1:14:01>> No, you don't know. Let's go. What
1:14:03system do you still need? Because we
1:14:05were just talking about a piece of
1:14:06customer service. We've covered ads now
1:14:08.
1:14:08>> Yes. So you're doing a million a month.
1:14:11You now do need a, uh, yeah, a kind of
1:14:14supply chain spreadsheet. Most people
1:14:16doing a million also have some kind of
1:14:18inventory. So you need a system where
1:14:20you track your inventory, where you
1:14:21track your profit, where you track your
1:14:23money, how much money is coming in, how
1:14:25much needs to go out. You have to
1:14:27ensure that your costs stay low. Most
1:14:29people just go and install everything,
1:14:31uh. € 50 a month here, € 100 a
1:14:33month there. And eventually, there is
1:14:35nothing left. So you really have to
1:14:36watch your costs. Look at the output of
1:14:38your employees. Especially in, uh,
1:14:40marketing, are they hitting the goals
1:14:43you set for them? Are they actually
1:14:45making as many videos as you're paying
1:14:46them for? Um, so watch costs, and with
1:14:49customer service, look at what problems
1:14:51are coming in. Are they being solved
1:14:54well, and are they really looking at
1:14:55the problem instead of just solving it
1:14:57to make money?
1:14:58>> Yes,
1:14:59>> it's a sort of feedback loop between
1:15:01your business and your customer. And,
1:15:03uh, you also need an accountant who can
1:15:07guide you, a good accountant.
1:15:09>> Yes.
1:15:10>> Uh, you're going to get really, uh,
1:15:12yeah,
1:15:14>> scammed if you have a bad accountant.
1:15:16>> What are the red flags of a bad
1:15:17accountant? Um, red flags, unclear
1:15:25costs, charging by the hour, no fixed
1:15:28agreements. Um, not helpful and unable
1:15:35to answer your questions quickly. And,
1:15:39uh, when you have to do something, a
1:15:45task is given, et cetera. They just
1:15:47forget. Those are real red flags.
1:15:50>> Forgetting tasks. Oi, I’ve seen that
1:15:53before. It happens often enough within
1:15:56a business. Okay. Priority was still
1:15:59ads, creatives, still focus number one,
1:16:02right?
1:16:03>> And, and new products too.
1:16:05>> And new products.
1:16:06>> I would definitely have a new product
1:16:08once every six months.
1:16:09>> Yes.
1:16:09>> That you're going to test in your brand
1:16:11.
1:16:11>> Yes. When, we haven't really talked
1:16:13about that much. When did we switch to
1:16:15a brand? Because we were dropshipping
1:16:17at first.
1:16:18>> Yes, after 100k, you need a brand.
1:16:21>> Yes,
1:16:22>> you can dropship it, but I’ve seen
1:16:23very few people who are really
1:16:25successfully at 1 million a month with
1:16:27dropshipping. So after 100k, that’s
1:16:29the ceiling, you have to break through
1:16:31it, you need a different business.
1:16:33>> Okay, check. Uh, you want to transition
1:16:36from dropshipping to a brand. What
1:16:38changes for the dropshipper then?
1:16:40Dropshippers really have to take into
1:16:42account, okay, the mindset must be
1:16:44different. These systems must be
1:16:45different.
1:16:46>> Customer satisfaction with your
1:16:47products.
1:16:48>> Yes.
1:16:48>> So, uh, the products you sell must
1:16:51actually deliver what you advertise.
1:16:54Let's say you have those side effects
1:16:55again with your bone density supplement
1:16:57.
1:16:58>> Yes,
1:16:59>> it has to be real that you are actually
1:17:01taking care of your bone density with
1:17:02it. So that could, for example, be
1:17:06something that you definitely need. You
1:17:08need a product that people might come
1:17:10back to. Um, customer satisfaction must
1:17:13be high. Your reviews need to be good.
1:17:15Eh, you must be able to help customers
1:17:17quickly.
1:17:18>> Yes.
1:17:19>> And, uh, you just need a machine that
1:17:21simply puts out ads every day on your
1:17:23brand page, organically on your meta
1:17:26ads, on your influencer, people who are
1:17:28on that. And just do that every, every
1:17:31day.
1:17:32>> With, uh, with dropshipping, it doesn't
1:17:34really work with influencers yet, I
1:17:36think.
1:17:37>> I, I, I don't know any influencer who
1:17:39doesn't think now: hey, does this
1:17:41product actually work?
1:17:42>> Yes. So I would, I think every
1:17:44influencer I know who is actually a bit
1:17:46serious, they do look at: okay, is this
1:17:48a serious company? Are they buying
1:17:50things that can actually be delivered?
1:17:52Yes.
1:17:52>> Eh, in the past you had those people
1:17:54who, for example,
1:17:55>> a, I don't know, sold an oil or
1:17:57something. That you say:" Hey, you can
1:17:59eat McDonald's now. You are selling oil
1:18:01. "Yes, those things are now, yes,
1:18:04>> a bit out.
1:18:04>> Out. Yes.
1:18:05>> Influencers. Okay, nice. I want to
1:18:08start working with influencers. How
1:18:09would I approach that? I would look at,
1:18:13uh, in any case, how relevant is an
1:18:15influencer, how much credibility does
1:18:17this influencer have? Usually the
1:18:20biggest influencers have the highest
1:18:22credibility. So they are always good.
1:18:24But if you are at 1 million a month,
1:18:26you are not really going to work with
1:18:28the biggest ones yet. You will usually
1:18:30work with those up-and-coming TikTokers
1:18:32. Mhm.
1:18:33>> And they don't have that much
1:18:34credibility yet, but do have a lot of
1:18:36views. So you mainly have to create
1:18:38credibility in your content.
1:18:39>> Yes. So I would really look at what
1:18:41kind of things you want to say, what
1:18:43kind of, uh, messages you want to give
1:18:45to your customers so that people are,
1:18:47yes, willing to buy. And then, of
1:18:48course, a lot of social proof, a lot of
1:18:50before-and-afters and those kinds of
1:18:52things in that influencer content.
1:18:54>> How much do you have to give them so
1:18:56that they produce the right thing?
1:18:59>> I would just make a video myself with
1:19:01your own team and then say: copy this
1:19:03exactly. Because a lot of them just
1:19:07don't do it right.
1:19:08>> Yes. How many collaborations do you
1:19:11have with influencers now?
1:19:13>> Uh, with big ones we have now
1:19:15>> No, just in total. Total.
1:19:17>> Um,
1:19:18>> after that the big ones, I want to hear
1:19:20that too. Yes.
1:19:21>> Um, I think more than 100, 100
1:19:24influencers. Is that, is that a big
1:19:28hack for you for your business? Um, I
1:19:31think it's really standard once you
1:19:33reach a certain size that you should
1:19:35definitely work with influencers.
1:19:37>> Yes,
1:19:38>> because they naturally have the best
1:19:39trust with their customers.
1:19:41>> Yeah. And, uh, yes, if you obviously
1:19:43have a good product and you've overcome
1:19:45all those setbacks, like," Okay, I
1:19:48can't scale right now, "and kept your
1:19:50brand in good shape, then you can
1:19:52really work with the biggest
1:19:54influencers. Coincidentally, as we're
1:19:57recording this, we’ve just closed a
1:19:59deal with James Charles, one of the
1:20:01biggest celebrities in the U.S. And
1:20:03that just happened because they really
1:20:05liked our product. We now have a lot of
1:20:08other celebrities we’re working with
1:20:09too. And that’s due to good customer
1:20:11service, good customer satisfaction, a
1:20:14strong brand, a good reputation, and
1:20:16then you can work with the best,
1:20:17because they are really focused on that
1:20:19.
1:20:20>> Yeah.
1:20:20>> Okay, you send me a product. It's just
1:20:23a bit, uh, yeah, okay. Should I go and
1:20:26scam all my followers now?
1:20:28>> Hm.
1:20:29>> You’re done with those followers and
1:20:30you’ve already raked in all the money
1:20:31.
1:20:32>> Yeah. So, yes, the bigger you get, the
1:20:34more important it becomes what you do,
1:20:35what you sell, and whether it actually
1:20:37works.
1:20:38>> A critical point in that is that the
1:20:40last time we recorded an episode, we
1:20:42also talked about Trustpilot reviews,
1:20:44for example.
1:20:45>> Yes.
1:20:46>> In that, uh, the rating, off the top of
1:20:50my head, was something like 2.2 or so.
1:20:52>> Yeah.
1:20:53>> Uh, we mentioned that in the podcast
1:20:54back then.
1:20:55>> Why do you say, you mention quite often
1:20:57now, yes, that those reviews are pretty
1:21:00important. While it was 2.2 back then.
1:21:03>> How did that happen?
1:21:04>> We did have good reviews in the U.S.
1:21:06back then.
1:21:07>> Yeah.
1:21:07>> And the Netherlands wasn't really a
1:21:09focus.
1:21:09>> But after that episode, I did make
1:21:12changes in the company, so now we have,
1:21:15for example, a 3.9 or 4.0 on Trustpilot
1:21:18specifically.
1:21:19>> Yeah,
1:21:19>> for us, the focus was more on Amazon
1:21:21reviews and things like that.
1:21:22>> And what kind of Amazon reviews did you
1:21:24have then, or do you have? Uh, I had
1:21:26four then and still have four now.
1:21:28>> Yeah,
1:21:28>> but on Amazon, you're ranked number one
1:21:30, right?
1:21:30>> Yes, still. It’s been, uh, how long
1:21:33now? Seven months in a row.
1:21:34>> Nice, man. A long time. Okay. What is
1:21:39your record month now?
1:21:41>> Oof. 25 million.
1:21:45>> 25 million. Okay. Dope. That means we
1:21:50can still go to the next level. And
1:21:52that is from 1 to 10 million per month.
1:21:54Yes. We already talked about the
1:21:57previous one quite extensively. We are
1:21:59also running a bit short on time, but
1:22:01we will just take a moment for this.
1:22:04You want to go from 1 to 10 million.
1:22:06Status 1 million. What is the status at
1:22:09that moment and how do you go to that
1:22:1010 million?
1:22:11>> Okay, so you have 10 people in your
1:22:13team, smart people, hardworking people
1:22:16and you do 1 million per month. To go
1:22:19to 10 million you just need a much
1:22:21higher quality team. Your team has
1:22:24experience in companies that have
1:22:26generated at least 5 million per month.
1:22:28They have expertise that you don't have
1:22:30. You have a product that is simply the
1:22:33best alternative for the problem you
1:22:34are solving. That is guaranteed what
1:22:39you need to just keep running. You have
1:22:41multiple products that generate at
1:22:43least 1 million per month in revenue.
1:22:45You have stock in 10 plus countries.
1:22:49You have platforms like Amazon, Shop,
1:22:52Walmart, etc. Bol.com, let's keep it
1:22:55Dutch. Bol.com, Amazon, Coolblue.
1:22:58>> Yes,
1:22:59>> Coolblue. Actually no, but Bol.com. You
1:23:02are there, you are in the bestseller
1:23:04ranking, you are also pushed there by
1:23:06other marketplaces. You have
1:23:09influencers talking about you for free,
1:23:11without paying. You have customers
1:23:13coming back. You have a hierarchy in
1:23:18terms of business structure where you
1:23:20have chiefs who are responsible for
1:23:22certain complete departments that are
1:23:24run and reported to you. You have,
1:23:29instead of a customer service manager,
1:23:31a chief of customer service who also
1:23:33looks at product feedback loops, what
1:23:36can be improved, how the product is
1:23:38experienced, new product launches, how
1:23:40that is experienced. So you just have a
1:23:44team of 50 plus people now.
1:23:47>> That's significant. That is the team.
1:23:51>> Yes.
1:23:51>> Rest of the company. Yes. So you
1:23:56yourself are usually CEO, CMO, CFO, COO
1:24:00, growth, legal, compliance, tax. And
1:24:06that is actually your management. And
1:24:08then under that you have
1:24:10>> at least 15 to 20 customer service
1:24:12employees. Yes,
1:24:14>> you have several people who only focus
1:24:16on logistics, several people who only
1:24:18focus on marketing-related things. You
1:24:21have several people who only work on
1:24:22your website improving things, solving
1:24:24problems that exist. Hm
1:24:26>> hm. You have legal, so you have things
1:24:30that infringe on other people's rights.
1:24:34You have things that need to be fixed.
1:24:36You have 10 plus countries where you
1:24:38have to file tax returns. You have
1:24:41>> That's nice, man. You're lucky if you
1:24:44have people.
1:24:44>> Yeah, you have relationships with
1:24:46factories that you, well, you need to
1:24:48visit at least once a year. You have
1:24:50contracts there, things go wrong,
1:24:52quality checks are done incorrectly.
1:24:54Products are delivered late. You have
1:24:56customs, customs authorities asking for
1:24:59information. You have things that get
1:25:02flagged by Amazon. Saying:" Hey, this
1:25:04isn't right. It needs to be adjusted. "
1:25:06You need these certificates. You need
1:25:08these laboratory tests. You need these
1:25:11proofs to keep selling there. You have
1:25:13Facebook taking you offline and asking:
1:25:15" Hey, are these claims actually
1:25:17correct? Are these things accurate? Do
1:25:19your advertisements back up these
1:25:20claims? "Do you actually have a
1:25:23partnership with that influencer, or is
1:25:25it just copied or not? So you're busy
1:25:29with things that aren't actually moving
1:25:31your business forward, but are just
1:25:33necessary.
1:25:36>> They're needed to stay where you are,
1:25:37but they don't help you get to the next
1:25:39level.
1:25:40>> Yes. Oh,
1:25:41>> from all sides, you have people who
1:25:43either want your money or want to take
1:25:45you offline.
1:25:46>> Everyone wants to screw you over. Great
1:25:48, man. Definitely, yes.
1:25:50>> It's lonely at the top, isn't it?
1:25:51>> Yeah.
1:25:52>> How many people do you know around you
1:25:54who do, well, between 1 and 10 million
1:25:56a month?
1:25:59>> Oh, I think about 30 people.
1:26:01>> 30 people?
1:26:02>> Yeah.
1:26:03>> Many Dutch people?
1:26:04>> Yes, quite a few Dutch people. Yeah.
1:26:06Yeah. Because we're Dutch, you tend to
1:26:08seek each other out a bit.
1:26:09>> Yeah.
1:26:10>> But also a lot of foreigners.
1:26:11>> Yeah. Um
1:26:15>> do those people still live in the
1:26:17Netherlands? No, I don't know anyone,
1:26:20or well, a few, but most are abroad.
1:26:22>> Are you mostly abroad?
1:26:24>> And most people aren't sitting in Bali;
1:26:26they go to Dubai instead.
1:26:28>> Yeah, Dubai or the US.
1:26:30>> The US too. Yeah.
1:26:32>> Yeah. Or, well, also the Netherlands. A
1:26:35few, but...
1:26:36>> And the US, why would people go to the
1:26:39US? What is the reason for that?
1:26:41>> Um, why? I think the biggest e-commerce
1:26:45community is in New York.
1:26:48>> Okay.
1:26:48>> And in Miami. That's where you have a
1:26:52lot of US entrepreneurs who are even
1:26:53bigger.
1:26:54>> Oh.
1:26:55>> So, yeah, if you want to grow even
1:26:57bigger, you're usually found somewhere
1:27:00there. And Dubai has a lot too, but
1:27:02those are more the...let's say, the
1:27:06under 10 million.
1:27:07>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:27:08>> and above 10 million you're often in uh
1:27:10in those kinds of countries, US
1:27:12etcetera.
1:27:13>> Interesting. Do you go to New York
1:27:15often yourself?
1:27:17>> Coincidentally, I was there twice this
1:27:19year
1:27:20>> for the first time.
1:27:21>> Yeah.
1:27:22>> How was it?
1:27:24>> It is uh yeah, it's really a uh good
1:27:26good city.
1:27:27>> Totally different vibe. Much bigger
1:27:30>> and uh yeah, even more motivation
1:27:32potentially.
1:27:33>> Yeah. Yes.
1:27:35>> Is it something is it also a place you
1:27:37will visit more often?
1:27:38>> Probably, yes. Yeah.
1:27:40>> And is it purely business for you?
1:27:43>> Uh yeah, sometimes just occasionally
1:27:45because it is a good place to be.
1:27:47>> Yeah,
1:27:48>> but mostly when I go somewhere it is
1:27:50business-related.
1:27:51>> Nice man. Systems. Which systems do you
1:27:54need in your business to be able to run
1:27:55that 10 million? So um you most likely
1:28:00have maybe 30 plus cloud code uh what
1:28:06do you call that uh subscriptions.
1:28:07>> Yeah.
1:28:08>> That are running at full capacity.
1:28:10Everyone in your business should be
1:28:11using AI to increase their output on
1:28:13every platform. Um so Claude is
1:28:17definitely one of the best AI tools.
1:28:21ChatGPT is also okay, but Claude is is
1:28:23yeah number one. Mm-hmm.
1:28:26>> That's definitely cloud that you use.
1:28:30Uh you need Shopify Plus just because
1:28:32when you're at that scale, many people
1:28:34will try to take you down by bypassing
1:28:36the system and then you need better
1:28:38relationships with everyone. Uh you
1:28:42definitely need Shopify Plus. Uh
1:28:44third-party tracking tools, which we
1:28:46also talked about, you need even more
1:28:48of those. Different tools for different
1:28:50things uh to actually check things
1:28:52properly.
1:28:53>> Yeah. Um no, you have uh yeah, you also
1:28:59just have tools for tracking uh stock,
1:29:01inventory, things like that. You have
1:29:04tools that then monitor chargebacks
1:29:06etcetera. Tools that then track
1:29:08customer service data and generate it
1:29:12for you. You have assistants who all
1:29:15need uh custom uh websites etcetera to
1:29:17properly convey the data to you.
1:29:20>> It also takes a lot of time to get the
1:29:22data from all departments, from all
1:29:24places, everything that happens,
1:29:26properly presented on a weekly basis.
1:29:29>> Yeah.
1:29:30>> Uh that takes a lot of uh time too.
1:29:31>> Yeah. And uh hiring continuously uh you
1:29:35need a system for that to hire people
1:29:37where there is a need. Uh like new
1:29:40customer service employees, like new
1:29:42marketing team members. Mm
1:29:44>> hmm.
1:29:44>> Uh you have a
1:29:46>> a system for product, so the product
1:29:48development uh yeah system. You can no
1:29:50longer sell other people's products or
1:29:52just slap a white label on them. You
1:29:55really have to create things yourself
1:29:57now, because you actually want to bring
1:29:59unique things into society. And um, yes
1:30:03, definitely systems for marketing. For
1:30:07each ad format, you actually need a
1:30:09different system. So, one specifically
1:30:12for photos, another specifically for
1:30:15UGC, and things like that, another
1:30:17specifically for longer videos. And you
1:30:20just need some kind of system for every
1:30:22platform, and also another system
1:30:24specifically for influencers if you
1:30:26work with them. You have a system for
1:30:29um marketplaces, like Amazon, Walmart,
1:30:37Shop, TikTok Shop.
1:30:39>> Yes.
1:30:40>> Where there is just a system in place
1:30:42where things are, where new people are
1:30:44onboarded, new stock is sent, and
1:30:46problems are solved. So you have many
1:30:49more systems for every little thing in
1:30:51your business. The question that is
1:30:56often asked in such a situation is,
1:30:58okay, nice that you say this, but then
1:31:00you could have already had it. I mean,
1:31:05you're doing 10 million a month now,
1:31:07that's great, but 10 million is not a
1:31:10small number. Why not implement such
1:31:12systems much earlier in the process
1:31:14when you were maybe doing 100k a month?
1:31:18Yes, you need the system to go from one
1:31:20to 10 million. At 100k, you don't have
1:31:23enough budget to keep it running.
1:31:26Because a CEO, for example, needs at
1:31:28least, let's say, 10k a month in salary
1:31:31, plus bonuses, etc. If you're doing
1:31:34100k a month, you might have 10k in
1:31:36profit, and then you can pay one
1:31:38employee who operates at that level. So
1:31:42, in terms of budget, what you provide
1:31:44to your team is not enough to hire
1:31:46those people on such a large scale.
1:31:49>> Yes, so it's actually just a matter of
1:31:51making decisions here. And in every
1:31:54phase, you have to make certain
1:31:55decisions about what you're going to
1:31:57work on. To realize the growth. To make
1:32:01the choice in the next phase to perhaps
1:32:03handle certain systems more
1:32:04professionally. Yes.
1:32:06>> But you actually choose not to work on
1:32:08certain systems on purpose. Perhaps, as
1:32:10people sometimes say, there are certain
1:32:12fires in your company, but you
1:32:13intentionally don't put them out
1:32:15because you know there is no capacity
1:32:17for it. Yes, I would put out fires
1:32:18anyway, but let's say, for example, you
1:32:20have Amazon. Many people now see," Oh,
1:32:22number one is Amazon. "Oh, he’s the
1:32:25Amazon guy now. But if nobody is
1:32:26searching for your products on Amazon,
1:32:28then Amazon makes no sense at all. So
1:32:30you can hire the best Amazon expert,
1:32:32but if you're not generating revenue
1:32:33there,
1:32:34>> then it’s just nothing but costs.
1:32:36>> So those kinds of decisions need to be
1:32:38made when you are in a certain phase.
1:32:41>> Okay, so we’re getting there, right?
1:32:43€ 10 million in revenue per month, or
1:32:45we achieved that in one month.
1:32:48>> Yes.
1:32:48>> Did we really achieve that, or did we
1:32:50forget one?
1:32:51>> It’s sometimes 8 million, then 12
1:32:52million, then 1 million, and then...
1:32:54>> Okay. Okay. Check. Check, check. But
1:32:56we’re more or less there. We can jump
1:32:58for joy for a moment.
1:32:59>> Yes.
1:33:00>> Um, I’m curious, because you’re
1:33:02already a phase further, 10 million
1:33:04plus per month. Um, what else do you
1:33:07have to look out for there? What are
1:33:09you paying attention to now? Yes, so um
1:33:12, for most people, what happens when
1:33:15you’re doing very high revenue is
1:33:17that the impact of seeking out a little
1:33:19gray area becomes much greater. So if
1:33:23you can go from 10 million to 20
1:33:25million with one decision by changing
1:33:27almost nothing, then the temptation
1:33:30becomes greater and the impact also
1:33:32becomes greater. So you do have a
1:33:34certain responsibility for a lot of
1:33:36people when you’re doing that kind of
1:33:38volume. So you must also always realize
1:33:41that you are punished harder when you
1:33:43make decisions at scale to generate
1:33:45even more revenue than when you are
1:33:46smaller. So the more revenue you do,
1:33:49the more you actually have to start
1:33:51thinking long-term. And that is
1:33:53something that I, uh, yeah, what I see
1:33:56many people around me making mistakes
1:33:58in, is thinking:" Okay, I can triple
1:34:00this month. "And at this scale, it’s
1:34:03so much money, it’s life-changing,
1:34:04but then you’ve shot yourself in the
1:34:06foot so much that you can’t actually
1:34:08fix it anymore. So all those years
1:34:10prior, all the time, all the energy
1:34:12you’ve put in is now so damaged by
1:34:14that one decision.
1:34:15>> Mm-hmm. Then, yeah, that is, let’s
1:34:18say, that not...a big...that has a very
1:34:22big impact on your future, let’s say.
1:34:25So I would really, if you want to go to
1:34:2710 million plus, you don't actually
1:34:28just want to do 10 million plus now,
1:34:30because you’re probably working for
1:34:32an exit, you’re probably working for,
1:34:34I don’t know, a long-term business.
1:34:36You've put so much time into it, you're
1:34:38in so deep when you're doing 10 million
1:34:40plus. It’s actually not worth taking
1:34:42those risks that could damage you in
1:34:44the future.
1:34:45>> Mm-hmm. So that’s something you also
1:34:47need to think about. And anyway,
1:34:49let’s say you’re doing 5 million a
1:34:51month, you think: okay, I see everyone
1:34:53else doing it. So much revenue, €
1:34:55300,000 a day, et cetera. Um, I'm doing
1:34:585 million, but € 100,000 or €
1:35:0015,000 in profit. But if I adjust the
1:35:05prices a bit when someone places an
1:35:07order and charge 10%more at checkout, I
1:35:10can suddenly double my profit from 10%
1:35:12to 20%. But what happens then is, okay,
1:35:17you keep doing that. You start looking
1:35:19for even shadier things, like, how can
1:35:21I send a product to 90 people instead
1:35:23of all 100 people? Then I’ve got
1:35:25another 10%extra profit there. Suddenly
1:35:27you've tripled your profit. And then
1:35:29you just keep going like that. And then
1:35:31, when you’ve suddenly scammed
1:35:33200,000 people, the problem becomes so
1:35:35huge that you think, okay, it wasn't
1:35:37worth it to do those little things. And
1:35:39that is what I see very often. And um
1:35:44just slightly more aggressive claims,
1:35:46like saying, okay, I'm selling a
1:35:48certain, well, let's talk about those
1:35:50side effects of Ozempic. Yeah, this
1:35:54supplement, within two weeks, it's just
1:35:56perfect. Your bone will be just as
1:35:59strong as steel. Now it’s thin,
1:36:01strong as steel. Many people are going
1:36:02to buy it. You see a nice spike. You
1:36:04think:" Oh, this is perfect. "And then
1:36:07after a year, your company is so poorly
1:36:09valued. You want to open a bank account
1:36:11somewhere and everyone says, hey, what
1:36:13is this? And because the product
1:36:15problem is so big, but you do see
1:36:17short-term, a 3x or 4x return from a 5-
1:36:19million-a-month point.
1:36:20>> Yeah.
1:36:21>> And if you look at it like, a year ago
1:36:23I was nothing, now I can make so much
1:36:25impact, then a lot of people make a
1:36:27mistake there.
1:36:29>> You have to set your ego aside.
1:36:31>> You have to choose for the long term.
1:36:34And it also depends on your goal. Some
1:36:36people just want cash flow and just see
1:36:38it as a cash-flow business. But I think
1:36:42if you're at 10 million, you are a
1:36:43certain kind of professional. You have
1:36:46certain skills, certain talent. And it
1:36:48would be a shame to just, uh, yeah,
1:36:50choose the easy way out.
1:36:52>> Yeah. We recently started a, uh,
1:36:55community called the Venture Club. Um,
1:36:59also to bring entrepreneurs together
1:37:01more, you know, who understand each
1:37:03other, to also get out of that attic
1:37:05room for a bit and be able to talk to
1:37:07each other. Maybe you've been stuck for
1:37:10a long time, and this way you can push
1:37:12through and also enjoy things a bit,
1:37:13like we just said. Sometimes you're
1:37:15allowed to celebrate a little bit. How
1:37:18important has your environment been to
1:37:20you on your journey here? Um, very
1:37:25important, because if you have access
1:37:27to information quickly when it happens,
1:37:29that's basically what you need when
1:37:31you're scaling hard. And those can be
1:37:34small things. For example, um, how do
1:37:36you fix reviews? You haven't put any
1:37:40time into it. You want your reviews to
1:37:42look good now. You have 3.5 stars, and
1:37:44then someone else you trust can give
1:37:46you that information, and you just ask
1:37:48your customers after 14 days when
1:37:50they’ve placed an order. What do you
1:37:52think of our product? And usually,
1:37:54people already have the product by then
1:37:56. They are already satisfied, and then
1:37:58most people say," Yeah, it's perfect. "
1:38:00And that's how you can very quickly, uh
1:38:02, get a lot of reviews. And that
1:38:04information is crucial when you’re,
1:38:06uh, just in a deal with, for example, a
1:38:08bank account that happens to check,"
1:38:10Hey, uh, what do your reviews look like
1:38:12? "Because a lot of people look at that
1:38:14too. Stripe, Shopify Payments, they
1:38:16look at that too. Uh, and such
1:38:18information can be crucial in your, in
1:38:20your journey.
1:38:20>> Yeah. In the Netherlands, more than 120
1:38:24cyberattacks are reported every month,
1:38:27and often SMEs are victims, and large
1:38:29ones too. So the question is: how well
1:38:31do you actually have your IT
1:38:33environment set up? Apart from security
1:38:35, it also has a major impact on your
1:38:37team's productivity. And especially as
1:38:38an entrepreneur, you might find that
1:38:40even more important now. Because how
1:38:42often are you still busy every week
1:38:43giving access to systems and folders? A
1:38:45license that might have expired that
1:38:47you need to fix, or a new employee who
1:38:49needs to be connected to all systems.
1:38:50That is exactly what SME Business ICT
1:38:52from Vodafone Business takes off your
1:38:54hands. Your Microsoft 365 workspace is
1:38:57fully managed, updated, and secured.
1:38:59This way, you and your team can focus
1:39:01on the business. And if you still have
1:39:03a question, there is always a
1:39:04Dutch-speaking service desk ready for
1:39:06you. So check out fotofon.nl/lotgenoten
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1:39:12>> That phase, that last phase, 10 million
1:39:15plus. Sleep well. Yeah, you probably
1:39:20work at least 8 hours a day. You have
1:39:22quite a bit of stress. But if you're
1:39:24doing 10 million plus every month after
1:39:263 or 4 months, you can sleep a little
1:39:28easier.
1:39:28>> Yeah, you can actually enjoy it a
1:39:30little bit.
1:39:31>> Yes,
1:39:31>> nice man. Hey, before we move on to the
1:39:35quickfire questions, which are just a
1:39:38few short questions, I'm curious,
1:39:40looking more at the future of e-com,
1:39:42what should an e-com entrepreneur
1:39:44change to still be relevant in 2030?
1:39:50>> An e-com entrepreneur change tomorrow.
1:39:52>> Yes.
1:39:54>> So what should you actually change now
1:39:56to ensure you still have a relevant
1:39:57business in a few years? Um
1:40:01>> is that even relevant, by the way? Is
1:40:03this question relevant to actually
1:40:05follow up on, or should you just focus
1:40:07on the here and now?
1:40:08>> Yeah, the world is changing so fast.
1:40:11>> Yes.
1:40:12>> Within four years you can't really
1:40:15predict where it's going. I just say,
1:40:18look at how you can optimize what
1:40:20you're doing now in your current
1:40:21business, the output that comes out of
1:40:23your business and what goes into your
1:40:25business, every day. So how can you
1:40:28ensure better products are developed?
1:40:30That better products come out? How can
1:40:32you ensure that better information goes
1:40:34into product development, for example?
1:40:36How can you ensure that better customer
1:40:38service employees go in, the output
1:40:40becomes better, and just track that
1:40:42every week and improve it.
1:40:44>> Yeah,
1:40:46>> then we have the quickfire questions.
1:40:48You can give short answers to these.
1:40:49>> Yes.
1:40:51>> Own inventory or dropshipping? Own
1:40:55inventory. One bestseller or a wide
1:41:00assortment?
1:41:02>> One bestseller.
1:41:04>> Shopify, Amazon, or TikTok Shop?
1:41:09>> Shopify.
1:41:12>> Do video production yourself or
1:41:13outsource it?
1:41:14>> Outsource it.
1:41:17>> Which sales channel is currently
1:41:19underestimated?
1:41:21>> Amazon. Will the traditional webshop
1:41:26still exist in 2030?
1:41:28>> Yes.
1:41:30>> At what revenue level do you think
1:41:32entrepreneurship is the most difficult?
1:41:34>> From 10k to 100k.
1:41:37>> Alias, thank you man.
1:41:39>> You're welcome. Until next time.
1:41:41>> Until next time.

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