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استراحة مع د. كريم حلمي - هل أنا منافق؟ - أحمد عامر — Transcript

by Ahmed Amer · 22,344 words · 3,695 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:05Alright, we have officially started.
0:06>> Honestly.
0:08>> Peace be upon you, just for the intro,
0:10you know, like you do.
0:14>> So, I'll start with what I told you a
0:16moment ago, that we already filmed an
0:18episode full of talk about the human
0:23psyche, psychological illnesses, and
0:25their relationship to humans and such.
0:27But I feel that what I will say today
0:29is more important to me, and perhaps to
0:31people. So I feel this will be the
0:32first episode.
0:33>> Okay.
0:33>> Either way, the first episode will be
0:35released and the second one too, and
0:37people will understand there are two
0:38episodes and we'll link them together,
0:40but I want to try to go through this
0:42episode as if it were the first.
0:43>> Fine.
0:44>> And see how it goes, so I need to say
0:47that Dr. Karim Helmy, the psychiatrist,
0:50>> the researcher, the thinker, you know
0:52these things.
0:54>> Cut that out.
0:56>> So, we are here to talk about
0:58psychiatry and the human psyche in
0:59general, but today I...
1:02>> The human psyche.
1:03>> The human psyche.
1:04>> Okay. Ultimately, psychiatry, yes.
1:07Focuses more on the difference between
1:11normalcy and illness. And dealing with
1:13illness, diagnosing it, and the like.
1:16But there is a broader aspect. And it
1:18is also one of my areas of expertise.
1:20Mental health is a bit wider than
1:21psychiatry.
1:22>> Beautiful.
1:23>> And there is an even wider aspect,
1:24which is the idea of dealing with the
1:26human soul in general, from different
1:28aspects and different angles, I mean...
1:30>> Psychiatry means health and disease,
1:32meaning treating disease.
1:34>> We can talk about it in a broader scope
1:35.
1:36>> Yes, beautiful. Today, I am very
1:39interested in looking at this topic
1:41from the perspective of a young person
1:42or a Muslim individual trying to get
1:44closer to God.
1:46>> Since you want this to be the first
1:48episode, let's remind people that they
1:50get upset when you talk too much, right
1:51? Remember that?
1:52>> Great.
1:53>> See?
1:53>> Great, keep talking a lot, okay.
1:56>> Talking a lot and I interrupt, fine,
1:58okay.
1:58>> The doctor wants me to talk a lot and
1:59interrupt.
2:00>> Yes, you want to debate, I mean.
2:02>> Yes, because he's not happy with it.
2:03>> I mean, let's avoid the interview vibe.
2:05>> Fine.
2:06>> No problem for me.
2:07>> Okay.
2:09>> So today I would like to talk about the
2:11topic as it relates to me as a Muslim
2:13trying to be upright, committed, and
2:14closer to God. I feel there are some
2:18struggles related to the psyche, some
2:20obstacles and challenges in this regard
2:22.
2:23>> Fine. Let me, let me, let me start from
2:29where? Well, I'll start with something,
2:33I feel that the issue of my
2:34relationship with sins and dealing with
2:36them as part of life and my path, and
2:38the subject of repentance, I see that
2:40this is...one of the biggest problems
2:47people face on the path, between
2:48someone feeling like they are in a
2:50whirlpool, or someone waiting for an
2:52angelic image where sins disappear
2:54completely from their life; sins that
2:55are burdening them, leading them to
2:57perceive themselves as a hypocrite. Or
3:00that they are a failure. Or that they
3:02are no good. So there is a knot here, a
3:05psychological one. I mean, how should I
3:08view the psychology of repentance? And
3:10how to understand it.
3:11>> Fine.
3:12>> That's the core of the topic, we are
3:13yet to dive into it.
3:14>> Okay, as we agreed, you won't ask a big
3:17question and leave me talking for a
3:18long time, turning it into a lecture.
3:21Understood?
3:21>> You mentioned more than one angle, as
3:23if you are throwing out answers already
3:25.
3:25>> Already.
3:26>> Yes, you mentioned, for example, the
3:27angelic view, as if you want to say
3:29there is—yes, there is a diagnosis
3:31here for the problem, which is the idea
3:33of the angelic view.
3:35>> So, you mentioned more than one problem
3:37just now regarding dealing with the
3:38issue of repentance and sins, among
3:40them the person's angelic perception of
3:42themselves, right? It's not healthy.
3:44>> Yeah.
3:45>> Is that right or wrong?
3:46>> That’s wrong.
3:47>> That’s wrong.
3:48>> Humans are not angels.
3:49>> Exactly, so ultimately, did the Sharia
3:51come to establish the opposite?
3:53>> No.
3:54>> Excellent, so the Prophet (peace be
3:56upon him) said: "Every son of Adam is a
3:58sinner, and the best of sinners are..."
4:00what?
4:00>> Those who repent.
4:01>> There is no believing servant but that
4:03he has a sin he commits from time to
4:04time, until he meets Allah in that
4:06state, and so on.
4:07>> The point is, yes, we might form a
4:09certain perception. That perception
4:12might be psychological. And it might be
4:15, or it might be from a religious
4:17source, from a source. Psychological,
4:19in that a person has what people might
4:20call perfectionism, for example, and
4:22the like, and he wants to transfer that
4:24to the religious aspect too—that I
4:26don't make mistakes.
4:27>> Or that everything is going perfectly.
4:29>> And this, even in the religious aspect,
4:31could lead to a big problem, like the
4:33problem of...
4:33>> Arrogance. I mean, one of the benefits
4:35of sins is that sometimes a person gets
4:37humbled.
4:38>> They realize, no, there is something
4:39bigger than them, that their soul is
4:40bigger than them, that they need to
4:42seek help from Allah, the Exalted.
4:43>> With it.
4:44>> Against it. So that...
4:45>> He needs Allah to forgive him and
4:47pardon him, otherwise, he is the one
4:48burdened by sins.
4:50>> And that is why the Prophet (peace be
4:52upon him) said: "If you were not to
4:53commit sins, Allah would replace you
4:55with a people who commit sins and seek
4:57Allah’s forgiveness, and He would
4:59forgive them." Because this is
5:01servitude. Servitude is for you to be
5:02dependent on the forgiveness of the
5:03Lord of the Worlds, the Exalted.
5:05Servitude will not exist.
5:06>> If you don't commit sins.
5:07>> Ah.
5:08>> Right.
5:09>> Right, but I have a point here—if I
5:11said in a lesson, "When will you stop
5:13sinning?", the expression failed me, I
5:16mean, "When will you stop sinning?" The
5:19expression failed me, because I hear,
5:21like in those lessons, we talked about
5:23the "Fiqh of Contemplation," right?
5:25>> Yeah.
5:26>> Good, so excuse me, let's say "Fiqh of
5:28Contemplation" again.
5:30>> I mean, I had a stream on the YouTube
5:32channel called "Fiqh of Contemplation."
5:33>> Okay.
5:34>> I was saying that reflection has a Fiqh
5:36(jurisprudence)—meaning, delivering a
5:37sermon has a Fiqh.
5:38>> Um.
5:39>> And receiving the sermon, which is the
5:40contemplation, also has a Fiqh.
5:42>> Yes, yes.
5:43>> Meaning, the preacher must choose his
5:45words to convey a correct message and
5:47not exaggerate sometimes, and so on.
5:49>> And also, the recipient must use his...
5:51>> Use his brain, okay?
5:53>> I mean, when I say to you, "When will
5:55you finally stop sinning?", well, it
5:57depends, it depends on what I mean by
5:59that.
6:01>> If you understood from my words that
6:02you should turn into one of the angels.
6:05Who never sins. And years pass by, year
6:07after year. And he doesn't fall into
6:09any sin, neither small nor large or
6:11similar. Then you misunderstood my
6:12words. If I meant that, then I have a
6:14problem.
6:15>> Okay.
6:15>> Okay, and if you understood my words
6:17like that while I didn't mean it, then
6:19you have a problem.
6:20>> So, could my words have a correct
6:21meaning? They could have a correct
6:23meaning; it could be that you are
6:24persisting in a certain sin.
6:26>> Allah.
6:27>> You are heedless, you don’t take a
6:29step, and you don’t see that
6:30there’s a problem at all. You’ve
6:33made peace with the fact that you’re
6:34a sinner. Is this happening or not? It
6:36is happening; there are people who
6:38drink.
6:39>> He doesn’t see that there is a
6:40problem at all in this aspect, and
6:41it’s normal; there are people who
6:43don’t pray.
6:43>> Exactly. So, when I tell you this, am I
6:46wrong? This is the word of Allah, the
6:47Almighty: "Has the time not come for
6:48those who have believed that their
6:50hearts should become humbly submissive
6:51...""...
6:51>> to the remembrance of Allah?" So, I’m
6:53asking you, isn’t it time for you to
6:55......
6:55>> to take a step?
6:56>> I’m not telling you to turn into an
6:58angel.
6:59>> Here, too, there is something that
7:01needs to be calibrated between the
7:02speaker and also......
7:04>> the listener. But, of course, there are
7:06many backgrounds that can cause someone
7:08to interpret things incorrectly. So,
7:10the speaker needs to clarify, explain,
7:12and emphasize certain things, and I
7:14also need to use my head a bit and, you
7:16know......
7:18>> try to take a holistic view of the
7:19Sharia. Sometimes the problem is that a
7:24person takes something out of context
7:26and interprets the entire Sharia in
7:28light of that one thing.
7:31>> Hmm.
7:31>> For example, someone might take a verse
7:33, for instance, since we are talking
7:34about this topic and we want to discuss
7:36it: "Verily, in the remembrance of
7:38Allah do hearts find rest."
7:39>> Hmm.
7:40>> And he acts as if he knows no religion
7:41other than "in the remembrance of Allah
7:43do hearts find rest," so he understands
7:45it as a general interpretation that a
7:46person who remembers Allah......
7:48>> their heart is at peace.
7:49>> Yes, but is their heart at peace in the
7:50sense of being at peace in any
7:52situation?
7:52>> In every situation, they don’t fear,
7:54they don’t worry, they don’t get
7:55stressed, they don’t get annoyed,
7:56they don’t get pressured, they
7:57don’t get angry? He has already
7:59decided that......
7:59>> he has put an absolute, general
8:01interpretation of the phrase "hearts
8:02find rest" in his mind.
8:04>> But aren’t there other verses about
8:05situations, about the state of the
8:07Muslims in the Battle of the Trench,
8:08and the role of the Companions, may
8:10Allah be pleased with them? No, for him
8:11, it’s just that one verse.
8:14>> So, a person also needs to......know
8:16how to put things together. Well, now,
8:18a person is always......being......
8:20coming from a place of "I have to stop
8:23all sins,""I can’t do this," that
8:25extreme place. So, when they hear this
8:28talk, they end up... "Am I supposed to
8:30accept it now if I commit a sin?""
8:32Shouldn’t I be upset?""If I commit a
8:35sin, shouldn't I expect...I don't know
8:37what you mean, but okay." But at that
8:41point, it gives a kind of
8:42procrastination. It gives you space so
8:45that you tell yourself, "Just relax a
8:47little." I don’t mean that it’s
8:50okay to commit sins without it
8:51bothering you at all. I’m not saying
8:53that. I’m saying that if a sin
8:56happens, it’s no big deal, it’s
8:58just one sin, so...I feel that this is
9:00what happens with the beginning of what
9:02you are saying now. I understand.
9:05>> And I imagine that this isn't right.
9:07You are calibrating the jurisprudence
9:09of consideration. Don’t ever
9:10understand it that way. But I see that
9:12the first......reaction to the words...
9:13...was that you shouldn’t be an angel
9:15. And that it’s normal to have......
9:17you know, in......your life, there are
9:19sins. So, that’s the first reaction.
9:21And I think this reaction is wrong.
9:22Meaning, this isn't the right reaction.
9:24Then what is? I mean, yeah. What is
9:26that, then? That also needs some
9:27fine-tuning.
9:28>> Right, but this brings us back to the
9:29point of the "jurisprudence of
9:31consideration" and why it’s important
9:33. It’s important because there’s no
9:35one-size-fits-all approach for everyone
9:37at all times.
9:38>> Mm.
9:38>> Exactly. Humans have a form of
9:41servitude that requires their own
9:42active intervention and effort, which
9:44is the servitude of "governing the self
9:46."
9:48>> Governing the self is like—you know
9:50—it’s like raising a child, like
9:52gentle coaxing. You have something
9:54you’re trying to govern, approaching
9:56it from the right, then from the left,
9:57adjusting it here. If it goes wrong,
9:59you nudge it right; if it goes right,
10:01you nudge it left. And so on, this idea
10:03of "give me.""Give me a catalog.""Give
10:05me rules.""Give me a path to follow,
10:07and I’ll force myself to stick to it.
10:08" 24/7. At all times. In all situations
10:11. In all circumstances. And have it
10:13work for everyone. There is no such
10:14thing.
10:14>> Yeah.
10:15>> Exactly, and this is part of the
10:16importance of the jurisprudence of
10:18consideration. It’s impossible for
10:19one single piece of advice to apply to
10:21everyone, at all times, and in all
10:22circumstances. Even the Prophetic
10:24address to the Companions—may God be
10:25pleased with them—varied from one
10:27person to another.
10:28>> Mm.
10:29>> Depending on the nature of the person,
10:32their spiritual and psychological stage
10:34, and so on.
10:36>> So, what is this then? I think I
10:37drifted off with you.
10:39>> No, I understood the meaning, but I
10:41can't put it into words. What is my
10:43theory on sins, then?
10:44>> Is my theory on sins different from
10:46just feeling like, "It doesn't matter,"
10:48so I’m okay with committing a sin?
10:50Like, I'm leaving room for a little
10:52slip-up. No, look. There is a space in
10:54the middle between "it doesn't matter."
10:55"It doesn't matter" regarding the sin.
10:57That contains a level of indifference
10:58toward sins in the first place.
10:59>> Mm.
11:00>> Right.
11:00>> Yeah.
11:02>> Okay, but on the other extreme,
11:04there’s the idea that I am incapable
11:05of sinning and can't imagine that I
11:07would. "
11:09>> How did a sin happen?" You feel
11:11there’s a lack of acceptance.
11:12>> There’s a shock: "How did this happen
11:14?"
11:14>> Either I’m an angel, or I’m a
11:16heretic. No, there are vast, wide
11:19spaces in the middle between the two.
11:21>> Mm.
11:22>> Part of it is that I prepare myself
11:23from the start to not sin.
11:26>> At all.
11:27>> Right.
11:28>> Okay, and while I’m moving forward,
11:30if I do fall into a sin, then first of
11:32all, I won’t be shocked.
11:37>> And consequently, I won't spiral into
11:39an "all-or-nothing" mentality, like, "
11:41I'm a hypocrite or a heretic, so it's
11:44all ruined, so might as well just..."
11:46Could that be a trick of the self?
11:50>> Yes, of course, a trick of the self and
11:52a trick of Satan.
11:53>> Satan tries to make a person despair of
11:55God’s mercy. Why? So that once you
11:57fall into a sin, he tells you, "It's
11:59all over, it's locked, just forget it."
12:01"
12:01>> Don't try again, it's finished."
12:03>> So, I mean.
12:04>> Give me the bottom line, how will you
12:06control yourself?
12:07>> If I—if I accepted the situation that
12:09a collapse happened, surely there is
12:11nothing I would hold onto. "
12:13>> It’s already ruined," so why would I
12:15bother? Why go through the struggle? Is
12:17this path an exhausting one?
12:18>> Mm.
12:18>> What is paradise surrounded by?
12:20>> By hardships.
12:21>> By hardships, exactly. In the end, I am
12:23striving against myself, getting tired,
12:25and exerting effort; these are what we
12:27call duties—there is a type of burden
12:29and difficulty in this path.
12:31>> Why do I endure this difficulty?
12:32Because in the end, I am waiting for
12:34something.
12:34>> Yes.
12:35>> Among these things, there is something
12:37in the Hereafter, for example.
12:38>> Like Paradise, okay, and something in
12:40this world, like success from the Lord
12:41of the Worlds, glory be to Him, and
12:43something spiritual.
12:44>> The innate human need.
12:45>> For the love of the Lord of the Worlds,
12:46glory be to Him—this is an innate
12:48need.
12:48>> Hmm.
12:49>> That a person feels a connection
12:51between themselves and God, glory be to
12:53Him—a relationship that is
12:54flourishing. So, when I feel that
12:58it’s all over, that God hates me...
13:00>> And the matter is closed, and the doors
13:02are shut.
13:02>> And I am useless, a failure, and lost
13:04—this, in the end...let us come to
13:06the very great story.
13:07>> The story of the killer of a hundred
13:09souls.
13:09>> Yes.
13:10>> Exactly.
13:10>> What saved this person? This person was
13:13saved, right?
13:14>> Yes.
13:15>> What saved him from his misfortune? Was
13:18it his persistence, or the fact that he
13:19didn't believe the people who told him
13:21there was no hope?
13:23>> Yes, so he kept looking for...Ah,
13:25you’re right, I got ahead of myself.
13:28You are saying the step he took was
13:29going to another person.
13:30>> Exactly, he wouldn't have reached
13:32number 100, he wouldn't have reached
13:34number 101, had the man not told him, "
13:36You can repent."
13:37>> And you can repent—unless he believed
13:38that, why would he close the door?
13:40>> It’s true, if someone had told him, "
13:42You can't repent," he would have had to
13:44stop, turn around, and go back.
13:45>> Exactly. You mean he kept going after
13:48something very severe; what saved him
13:50was not despairing.
13:53>> Yes, glory be to God.
13:54>> Yes.
13:57>> You see, the game of shock and how you
13:59want to act, its goal is to reach the
14:00stage where you feel there's no point
14:02in doing anything, so you ruin things
14:04even more than they already are. That
14:08is, of course, you protect yourself
14:10from reaching that point.
14:11>> And you also protect yourself from...I
14:19mean, you don't necessarily have to
14:21reach that level of thinking, but the
14:23idea of being traumatized by the fall
14:24—regardless of whether I think this
14:26way or not...
14:31>> I’m already exhausted. The person who
14:35gets shocked and thinks in an "all or
14:37nothing" mentality will feel troubled,
14:39especially in a calamity, saying, "I've
14:41reached this point, and there is no way
14:43back," you know?
14:45>> Even though, in the end, the most
14:47beneficial and better thing is to...
14:49>> Get up.
14:49>> To move, honestly.
14:51>> Hmm.
14:52>> Doesn't that reduce the feeling of
14:54regret and such?
14:56>> Ah.
14:56>> Or is the feeling of regret understood
14:57incorrectly to begin with?
14:59>> Yes, exactly. Is the feeling of regret
15:01required for its own sake?
15:02>> No, it is required so I can move.
15:04>> Exactly, it is required so I can move
15:06and so I don't go back again. Does the
15:08feeling of regret...
15:09>> Could it have the opposite effect of
15:10what is intended?
15:11>> Yes, it can lead to sadness, despair,
15:13and such.
15:14>> Yes, exactly. And it might cause a
15:16person to fall into, what, despair?
15:18>> Despair is something bad.
15:19>> True, despair is something bad. So,
15:21regret is not a positive thing at all.
15:24We must return to the idea of
15:25management; I must manage it and keep
15:27it at a specific dose.
15:28>> Hmm.
15:29>> Where this specific dose keeps me from,
15:31firstly, taking the prohibitions of God
15:33, glory be to Him, lightly, and makes
15:35me get up and move quickly, and have a
15:37desire to make amends and not stay down
15:39as much as I can. But in the right dose
15:41, that isn't toxic. Don't let it exceed
15:42that. Any medicine in the world, if
15:44it's an overdose, what happens?
15:47>> It turns into—what I mean is,
15:48searching for that feeling of regret
15:50and sadness as proof that I truly want
15:52to repent is not the point at all.
15:55>> I mean, it's not necessary. The
15:57important thing is what makes you move,
15:59even if you. Know that if you dive into
16:01this feeling, it's harmful. So, just
16:03take the part of it that keeps you.
16:05Moving. The purpose of this feeling is
16:07to maintain the reverence of Allah
16:08Almighty in my heart. To maintain, to
16:11maintain respect for the sacred
16:13boundaries of Allah Almighty. Meaning,
16:15not to take them lightly.
16:17>> If these things are achieved, there's
16:19no need to, you know, overdo it.
16:21>> To a degree that becomes destructive.
16:23The Prophet, peace be upon him.
16:26>> When a man came and told him he had
16:28committed a great, major sin.
16:31>> The Prophet, peace be upon him, let him
16:32sit until Allah Almighty decreed
16:34regarding him, then came the words of
16:35Allah Almighty. "
16:36>> Establish prayer at both ends of the
16:38day and in the approaches of the night.
16:39""
16:39>> Indeed, good deeds..." yes.
16:41>> Part of the meaning is that it was over
16:43—the Prophet, peace be upon him,
16:44didn't keep questioning him or spending
16:46hours on it. And you might wonder how
16:47he finished so quickly.
16:48>> Regarding something he said he
16:50committed, a crime—he imagined this
16:51was something that required a
16:53prescribed punishment.
16:54>> It was a major sin.
16:55>> Yes, so what was he told?
16:57>> He was told, "Just sit." Then came the
16:59verse: "Establish prayer at both ends
17:01of the day and in the approaches of the
17:02night; indeed, good deeds remove evil
17:04deeds." See, this regret—let's say it
17:06can. Be compared to energy.
17:09>> Okay.
17:10>> This energy, either I use it to destroy
17:12myself.
17:14>> Or I employ it in the work of
17:15rectification that my Lord, the
17:17Almighty, loves.
17:18>> Or I employ it for action.
17:20>> Exactly. Otherwise, I ended up
17:22committing a sin, so I sit there crying
17:24, blaming myself, self-flagellating,
17:26and saying "I did this," and "I did
17:28that"—all of that talk.
17:29>> I mean, have you done what Allah
17:31Almighty wants? No, that's not it.
17:33>> Yes, you are. Regret should be an
17:37opportunity, a motive for rectification
17:39, a motive for action.
17:41>> A motive for you to move. And this
17:43applies to everything, by the way.
17:46Anger itself can turn into something
17:47that destroys a person; all emotions
17:49can, or they can be a driving force for
17:51a person.
17:52>> To do something right.
17:54>> Exactly, to resist, to act, to fix.
17:57>> Right, and so on.
17:58>> Sadness is the same idea; many, many
18:00things can either be repressed by a
18:02person and processed wrongly,
18:04destroying them.
18:05>> Or channeled in a direction where they
18:06become useful and helpful. Now, I
18:09wanted to talk about this topic of
18:10sadness, so I'll return to it. Okay?
18:13>> Okay.
18:15>> But I have a question—I don't even
18:17know what this question is—like, why
18:18...
18:20>> They just...I mean, the point is the
18:21whole idea that, in the end, there is
18:23no such thing as. "
18:24>> Handling" it, by the way. I'm "handling
18:27" myself.
18:28>> Our language, everyone, just so. I am
18:31still talking, all of this, I am
18:33talking in dialect.
18:35>> Handling things requires balance;
18:37it’s not just a blanket approach.
18:39Sometimes you need a higher dose of
18:40remorse, other times you need to
18:42lighten it, or perhaps increase the
18:44hope or focus on something else.
18:45>> There's no such thing as a
18:46one-size-fits-all.
18:47>> I understand. Of course, this isn't
18:50general for everyone. A person might be
18:55drowning in many sins and not know how
18:56to handle it all at once.
19:00>> You see, you don't tell them to commit
19:02sins, but you tell them, "Look, focus
19:04hard on this specific thing.""
19:05>> Push hard here." You say, "So, you want
19:07me to keep sinning?" I didn't tell you
19:09that.
19:11>> I didn't say that, but I can't leave
19:13all of this at once. I'm telling you,
19:15don't think in terms of... "
19:17>> Either quit everything at once or do
19:18nothing at all." No, I wouldn't say
19:20that to you.
19:21>> I would say, try to leave it all, but
19:23first, focus on this one thing: finish
19:25this, pray.
19:25>> Hmm.
19:26>> Pray, okay? The other things are also
19:28major and important. And it is
19:29important that you abandon these
19:30forbidden acts. But pray. Prayer is
19:32very important. And prayer can help you
19:34do that; it forbids immorality and
19:36wrongdoing, right? It will help you.
19:38But I don't want you to wait to pray
19:39until you've checked off every single
19:41item on the list.
19:42>> Hmm.
19:43>> That is not a good policy for the soul.
19:45>> Well, look, you mentioned something
19:47regarding the idea of "I am a hypocrite
19:49." I hear that so often: "I feel like
19:51I'm a hypocrite."
19:53>> And I see it as—my son, a hypocrite,
19:55the true hypocrite is the one who
19:57harbors disbelief inside. That is
19:59someone completely different.
20:01>> Hmm.
20:01>> So I mean, why is the label "I am a
20:03hypocrite" so easily adopted? Why does
20:06someone so easily develop that anxiety
20:08or perception? Even though they have
20:11heard...They know who the hypocrites
20:12are. I mean, they haven't...They
20:14haven't heard about them except in
20:15religious texts. And the texts speak of
20:17people who deceive, pretending to be
20:18Muslim while they are, in fact...Hating
20:20the religion and just acting. So how
20:22did they end up putting themselves in
20:24that same category? And how can they
20:25get out of it?
20:30>> Well, look, many negative attitudes or
20:32human perceptions often have a good
20:34foundation, just like when we talked
20:36about remorse earlier.
20:42>> Hmm.
20:42>> It’s the same idea: fearing hypocrisy
20:45for yourself is actually a good thing.
20:47A good thing.
20:48>> In principle, it is a good thing, but
20:50...
20:50>> Also, if you'll excuse me, what comes
20:52to people's minds is the same religious
20:54text. They remember the story of
20:56Sayyidna Umar when he went to ask
20:58Hudhayfah, "Am I among the hypocrites
20:59or not?"
21:00>> Exactly.
21:01>> So this question makes you feel, "Wait,
21:03am I a hypocrite, or is it just a state
21:05of hypocrisy that's it?" Exactly.
21:07>> No, no, that's fine, that's correct,
21:09good, good. This opens the door for us
21:11to look at the topic from another angle
21:13, but remind me of it, remind me of the
21:15tradition of Sayyidna Umar.
21:16>> Alright.
21:17>> My point is that the principle of
21:19fearing for myself from disbelief, or
21:20fearing a change of heart, is a
21:22beautiful and good thing, but like
21:24everything else, such as politics, it
21:25all depends on the extent of it.
21:27>> Yes.
21:28>> Right, how much it controls me and in
21:29what context I bring it up.
21:31>> Hmm.
21:31>> Exactly, I mean in the end, for example
21:33, if I am someone who prays voluntary
21:36prayers and misses an obligatory one,
21:38am I a hypocrite or what?
21:40>> Right.
21:41>> And the same thing, meaning I did
21:43something that is expected of anyone,
21:45the same idea, I sinned or made a
21:47mistake.
21:49>> Does the mere act of sinning make a
21:51person a hypocrite? The idea is, how do
21:54I perceive this meaning? Could a person
21:57have misconceptions about hypocrisy and
21:59place it out of context? It's possible.
22:02>> I mean, if I am listening now, and I
22:04let the revelation paint this picture
22:06for me, I hear "and they do not come to
22:08prayer except while lazy," so I say, "
22:10Look, I am also lazy in prayer."
22:12>> So I say, I will take a few things from
22:14the revelation and say, "Look, here is
22:16the revelation, and here am I," so does
22:18that equal "I am a hypocrite"?
22:20>> Okay, let's hold that thought; it's a
22:22good point, but we have two points
22:23we're getting lost in, right?
22:25>> Okay.
22:26>> Well, let's start first.
22:28>> Wait a minute.
22:28>> Yes.
22:29>> Yes.
22:30>> Okay, fine.
22:32>> Let's first say that a person might
22:34have a wrong perception about hypocrisy
22:35.
22:36>> Hmm.
22:37>> Right.
22:38>> Was there anyone like that? Yes, some
22:39of the Companions, like Hanzala.
22:41>> True. Hanzala was on his way to the
22:43Prophet, peace be upon him, and met Abu
22:44Bakr on the road. Abu Bakr asked him, "
22:46Where are you going?" He said, "I am
22:47going to the Prophet, peace be upon him
22:49.""Why, Hanzala?""Hanzala has become a
22:51hypocrite."
22:51>> I discovered that I am a hypocrite.
22:53>> Hmm.
22:53>> So why, why do you say you are a
22:55hypocrite? He explained the story to
22:56him; I am just like you. He went to the
22:58Prophet, peace be upon him, and said, "
22:59Hanzala has become a hypocrite, O
23:00Messenger of Allah. Honestly, I have
23:02come to confess that I see myself as a
23:03hypocrite."
23:04>> So why, why did you discover this? What
23:06happened? When we are with you, we talk
23:09about Paradise and Hell, and it's as if
23:11we are seeing them with our own eyes
23:13and living in Paradise. But as soon as
23:17we leave that gathering and go back to
23:19mingle with our wealth and children and
23:20get busy with our trade, we forget. We
23:24forget a lot of these things, as if our
23:26hearts have changed. That is why he
23:29felt like a hypocrite; that was his
23:30perception of hypocrisy.
23:33>> Or of a branch or a form of hypocrisy,
23:35that is.
23:35>> So the Prophet, peace be upon him,
23:37simply said, "No, your perception of it
23:39is wrong."
23:39>> Yes.
23:40>> There is no issue with this at all.
23:42>> Yes.
23:42>> Right.
23:43>> I mean, the Prophet, peace be upon him,
23:45said if you were to remain as you are
23:47in my presence in the gatherings of
23:49remembrance, the angels would shake
23:50your hands. The point is, in the end,
23:52this is something logical and very
23:54normal. It is just "a time for this and
23:56a time for that," Hanzala.
23:58>> Hmm.
23:58>> This is very normal and very natural.
24:00Even the Prophet, peace be upon him,
24:02didn't tell him, "No, you're not, but
24:04try harder." Instead, he told him this
24:06is natural.
24:07>> Right, you think it is hypocrisy, so a
24:09person might have a wrong picture of
24:11hypocrisy or other things; it's
24:13possible.
24:14>> Right, so number one, a person
24:16shouldn't necessarily trust their
24:17religious perceptions that they form by
24:19just sensing things about the matter.
24:21>> Beautiful, hmm.
24:23>> Okay, uh.
24:23>> I mean, excuse me, the first piece of
24:25advice is that instead of jumping to
24:26call someone a hypocrite, one should
24:28first ask: is this good or bad?
24:29>> Exactly, yes. Try to ask first, try to
24:32understand first whether this is truly
24:34hypocrisy or not; don't overreach,
24:36because it's possible...
24:40>> This brings us back to the point, to
24:42the point that, for example, "they do
24:44not come to prayer except lazily."
24:50>> That the Quran might recount the traits
24:52of the hypocrites.
24:54>> Hmm.
24:55>> The hypocrite isn't defined by just
24:56that one trait; rather, the hypocrite
24:58has a set of traits.
24:59>> Hmm.
25:00>> Among their traits is that they do not
25:01come to prayer except while they are
25:03what?
25:03>> Hmm, lazy.
25:04>> Laziness is one of their traits. So,
25:08does it mean that a person who doesn't
25:10have the full set of hypocritical
25:11traits, but happens to be lazy while
25:13praying for some reason, is a hypocrite
25:15?
25:17>> No.
25:18>> Hmm.
25:19>> Even the Prophet's hadith, peace be
25:21upon him, and the Sharia sometimes warn
25:23us about the branches of hypocrisy.
25:25>> Right.
25:27>> And that the signs of the hypocrite are
25:29three, for example, regardless of the
25:31fact that the intention here is a
25:32person who persists in that.
25:34>> Yes, meaning the signs of the hypocrite
25:36, for instance, if he speaks, he lies;
25:37that is his default state, it is what
25:39prevails in him.
25:40>> Exactly, exactly, that's how it is; if
25:42he speaks, he speaks with what?
25:44>> He lies.
25:48>> So, regardless, sometimes the Sharia
25:50addresses us with the traits of
25:52disbelievers, hypocrites, or the People
25:54of the Book, the Jews.
25:59>> In order to warn us about...
26:01>> About those traits. For example, saying
26:03the Jews have such and such traits
26:05doesn't mean if I do this act, I become
26:07a Jew. Right? Has anyone ever said, "I
26:09am a Jew"?
26:10>> What?
26:10>> Has anyone ever said, "I am a Jew, I am
26:12envious, I am a Jew"?
26:13>> I am a Jew, exactly.
26:15>> But it is meant to make you dislike
26:16that trait. One of the Quran's methods
26:19to make believers despise certain
26:21actions and traits is to say, "This is
26:23the action of..." the action of Satan.
26:25>> Right.
26:26>> Arrogance is the action of...The action
26:27of Satan. The action of, the action of
26:29Iblis. This is such and such. This is
26:31the action of the Jews and Christians.
26:32Do not imitate them. And the Prophet,
26:34peace be upon him, forbade...Imitating,
26:35imitating them. But that doesn't mean
26:37that if you just do this, you become
26:37like them. Particularly, that you
26:38become one of the People of the Book.
26:39That you become a Jew. That you become
26:41a disbeliever. Right.
26:42>> The same idea applies to the traits of
26:44the hypocrites; they are mentioned so
26:46that a person learns to dislike those
26:48traits, saying, "These are the traits
26:49of the hypocrites, I will not share
26:51them, I won't be like them, I won't
26:53share with them in this type of...in
26:55this type of trait."
26:56>> Also, it is very important—one of the
26:58key differences between the hypocrite
27:00and others is the motivation for the
27:02action.
27:03>> Yes, I mean, I am lazy in prayer not
27:04because I don't believe in prayer, or
27:06hate it, or don't want its reward.
27:09>> The hypocrite, the hypocrite either
27:10shows faith...
27:12>> While concealing...
27:13>> Disbelief, so he is going just to put
27:15on a performance.
27:16>> Or it could be a state of practical
27:18hypocrisy, which is not hypocrisy of
27:20belief (creed).
27:21>> Yes.
27:21>> He doesn't necessarily have to be
27:23concealing disbelief; it’s more the
27:25idea that... "
27:26>> I have to pray for the sake of people,"
27:28and it’s not even necessarily about
27:29faith and disbelief; that’s not a big
27:31concept for him. In the end, he thinks,
27:34"Let's just get it done and that's it."
27:36>> I mean, it is exactly a matter of...
27:38>> But as for me, I am lazy for my own
27:40sake.
27:40>> I am lazy about studying, lazy about
27:42doing things that are actually in my
27:43own best interest.
27:44>> Yeah, anything involving self-interest
27:45and personal gain.
27:46>> Exactly. I’m just lying here, feeling
27:48depressed in bed. Not tired, not
27:49anything else, and not exhausted. And I
27:51don't know, I just can't. There is a
27:53real, physical thing here. I mean, is
27:54it a trait of a believer that if they
27:56haven't slept for two days, for
27:57instance, they suddenly have incredible
27:58energy when the Dhuhr prayer comes? No,
28:00they still struggle to get up. Oh.
28:02>> No, it's normal to go to prayer feeling
28:04tired and exhausted, and they are
28:05rewarded for that.
28:06>> Oh.
28:07>> Right.
28:07>> Beautiful.
28:08>> The one who reads the Quran with
28:09difficulty gets a double reward. The
28:11reward matches the struggle. The fact
28:13that you’re dragging yourself, even
28:15when you're lazy, tired, and just want
28:16to sleep.
28:17>> You actually have some very great
28:18motives at that moment.
28:19>> Exactly. And so, could it be that on
28:22the outside, it looks just like the
28:24hypocrite's behavior, but the internal
28:26engine...
28:27>> Is completely different.
28:28>> That’s what makes this one a
28:30hypocrite and the other one gain double
28:31the reward.
28:32>> Oh, I see.
28:33>> Great, fine.
28:34>> Also, what about "if he speaks, he lies
28:37"? As we agreed, we are talking more
28:39about something...
28:40>> Syndromic, you know?
28:42>> Exactly, for a human.
28:43>> It’s a syndrome, meaning it’s
28:44something repetitive.
28:46>> It could have more than...
28:47>> Well, let me ask about something you
28:49just said with that exact term.
28:50>> Exactly, yes.
28:52>> Okay.
28:52>> I mean, it could be a syndrome in the
28:54sense of a medical syndrome, but
28:55that’s not important.
28:56>> Meaning it’s repetitive, constant,
28:58and continuous.
28:59>> Or is it just that whenever it happens,
29:01that’s their way, their pattern?
29:03>> That is one of the meanings of a
29:05syndrome, or part of it, that a group
29:06of things happen together. Either the
29:10thing is inherent to the person, or
29:12these things happen together to be
29:13called by that name.
29:15>> So, if he lies, and so on...is that a
29:18syndrome? No, it doesn't have to be. "
29:21If he speaks, he lies" is just a sign.
29:23>> Right, but is it constant?
29:25>> Okay, fair enough.
29:26>> But I want to say that someone, even if
29:28it is constant...
29:29>> Um.
29:29>> Regardless of the "constant" part,
29:31there's still the idea of the motive.
29:33>> Okay, that's very good.
29:34>> Meaning the hypocrite has a continuity
29:36to it anyway; they don't care, they
29:38have no principles at all.
29:40>> Oh.
29:41>> But there is someone, and this is also
29:43from him...
29:43>> Oh.
29:44>> But there is someone who is...
29:46>> Often lying.
29:47>> Yes, they lie often because they are,
29:49for example, a coward and fearful.
29:50>> Oh.
29:52>> Right, meaning for some reason—we
29:54don't want to analyze it now—but they
29:56are always afraid and terrified of
29:57being wrong, or afraid of punishment,
29:59having grown up that way. So, if you
30:02say, "Did you do such and such?" they
30:04say, "No, I didn't."
30:05>> Why? I'm afraid to face it.
30:07>> Yes.
30:08>> That makes a difference. It’s still
30:09blameworthy, but it makes a difference.
30:11>> You know what’s proof that it makes a
30:12difference?
30:12>> That they are bothered while doing it.
30:14>> No, let me give you a religious piece
30:15of evidence.
30:15>> Oh.
30:16>> It makes a difference.
30:17>> What? Wait.
30:18>> Oh.
30:18>> We're going to take a long time now,
30:20right?
30:20>> The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "
30:22Three will not be spoken to by Allah,
30:24nor will He purify them, and theirs
30:25will be a painful punishment."
30:27>> Um, who are they, Sheikh? "
30:29>> An old adulterer, a proud beggar, and a
30:31lying king."
30:32>> Okay.
30:33>> Why these three? For example, the young
30:35adulterer, it's normal, no problem—I
30:36mean...
30:37>> No, no, it's not normal, but because
30:38the old man is already older...
30:40>> Exactly, that’s the whole idea.
30:41>> His desire should have decreased, I
30:43mean.
30:43>> The motivation for the sin isn't there.
30:44>> Yeah, so why are you doing it?
30:46>> You're doing it out of insolence.
30:47>> Yeah, yeah.
30:48>> Meaning it's insolence. That young man,
30:50of course, is committing a major sin,
30:52but you will be punished more. Why?
30:53Because while it's a major sin, that
30:55young man's situation—the fact that
30:57he's young and the issue of desire—
30:58will be taken into account.
31:00>> Your punishment is different from his
31:01because your motivation wasn't...
31:02>> Because the amount of struggle wasn't
31:04there. You have none, absolutely none.
31:06You didn't put in even a tiny bit of
31:07struggle. Exactly, the matter was easy.
31:09Now let's look at the "arrogant poor
31:11man." The same poor person, okay. You
31:13have money, a car, you go out, have
31:15phones, and so on, so you...
31:17>> Well, maybe something like pride could
31:19enter your heart, but you, a poor
31:20person, for what reason?
31:22>> Are you arrogant about it?
31:23>> Okay.
31:23>> And the "lying king"—now we come to
31:25the idea of the motive.
31:26>> Yes, because you said he might be a
31:28coward, afraid, even though you are
31:29already a king.
31:30>> Exactly, you have everything, why are
31:32you lying?
31:33>> Okay.
31:34>> But someone who might not be a king,
31:35someone who might be afraid of being
31:36oppressed, afraid of injustice, afraid
31:38of being attacked—he might be lying.
31:39That's the motive. What is his motive?
31:41So, the motive makes a difference; the
31:42motive makes a difference.
31:43>> Right.
31:44>> Sorry, the last bit, the part we set
31:46aside to finish later.
31:47>> Yes, bravo, the part about Umar ibn
31:49al-Khattab.
31:50>> Also, let's say that we previously
31:52stated that the root of many things
31:54that might be wrong or distorted
31:55actually has good origins.
31:57>> Yes, that I fear for myself is a good
31:59thing.
31:59>> Exactly.
32:00>> But I also want to say something, and
32:02this is an important point that needs
32:03serious consideration.
32:06>> Yes, it needs serious consideration,
32:08the fact that there are levels suitable
32:10for those who have reached them, okay.
32:14>> Right, yes.
32:15>> Meaning, someone who isn't ready for it
32:17shouldn't live at that level, as it
32:19harms them rather than benefits them.
32:21>> Hmm.
32:21>> Okay.
32:22>> Hmm.
32:22>> So, it's beautiful coming from Umar ibn
32:25al-Khattab.
32:25>> Yes.
32:26>> Right.
32:26>> But you, like this...
32:28>> But okay, however, there is a person
32:30who has reached it by their very nature
32:32; the matter didn't come through
32:33affectation, force, or pushing. They
32:35reached a high degree of piety.
32:37>> Hmm.
32:38>> And it's something ingrained in their
32:40flesh, blood, and bones; piety from
32:41them is beautiful.
32:43>> Hmm.
32:43>> You're a person who started practicing
32:45the day before yesterday and before
32:47that; don't live in a state of piety
32:48that some of the Salaf even called "
32:50false piety"—leave that aside.
32:51>> No false piety; it's forced and it's
32:54not good, it harms you.
32:55>> Piety from you is harmful.
32:57>> But from those it suits, it's beautiful
32:59.
33:00>> So, you mean that I am supposed to fear
33:02for myself, and the fact that Umar ibn
33:04al-Khattab...
33:06>> Was very afraid for himself, that suits
33:08Umar and Umar's faith.
33:09>> And his psyche and his nature; this is
33:11good for him, it won't harm him.
33:13>> Yes, exactly like when Umar heard a
33:15verse and became ill, becoming
33:17distressed. My point is, this is Umar
33:20and his states; so don't imagine that
33:22he is the standard for us all. On the
33:24contrary, that is the exception.
33:26>> Exactly.
33:27>> Hmm.
33:28>> And again, in the end, these high
33:30levels don't come instantly or all at
33:32once.
33:33>> It's a long journey.
33:35>> I just said a sentence, but I want you
33:37to consider: when Sayyidna Umar was
33:39like that, how did that resonate with
33:41his state with God? I mean, when he
33:44asked that question, was it appropriate
33:46for his faith? Appropriate in what way?
33:49>> It was appropriate for his faith, his
33:51religion, his psychological nature, his
33:53makeup, and many other things. Okay,
33:55even Sayyidna Umar had a degree of
33:57strength.
33:57>> And intensity and awe not found in some
33:59other companions. Even Sayyidna Abu
34:00Bakr did not have the intensity of
34:02Sayyidna Umar, even though Sayyidna Abu
34:04Bakr is superior to Sayyidna Umar.
34:05>> Exactly.
34:06>> But in the end, that intensity of
34:07Sayyidna Umar made him align with the
34:09truth in certain matters.
34:10>> Right, like, for example, the incident
34:12of the Badr captives or others. I mean,
34:14I want to convey that there are things
34:16that came from Sayyidna Umar. And they
34:18are beautiful from him. And they are
34:19spot on from him. Because he is what?
34:21Because he is Sayyidna Umar, with his
34:22psychological and faith-based makeup,
34:23and everything else.
34:24>> Actually, I don't know of any evidence
34:26that anyone else went and asked, "Am I
34:27a hypocrite?" I mean, it's not like all
34:29the companions were going around asking
34:31, "Am I a hypocrite or not?" It is
34:32something recorded from Sayyidna Umar.
34:34>> Yes, exactly, exactly. And many other
34:36things were recorded from Sayyidna Umar
34:38as well.
34:38>> Yes, strange and different, specific
34:39things, meaning not necessarily to be
34:41taken as a model for everyone.
34:42>> Ah, okay, I understand, I understand.
34:44>> We understand.
34:45>> So, these points—this is not just why
34:47I’m saying it. Even when you look at
34:49the traditions of the predecessors, you
34:51need to, in general—the traditions of
34:52the predecessors, the traditions of the
34:54great Imams, the traditions of someone
34:56—you need to benefit from them.
34:57>> But not necessarily identically.
34:59>> Yes.
35:00>> Benefit from how a person, for instance
35:02, should not be arrogant, should not be
35:04conceited.
35:04>> Should not be, you know, very, very,
35:06very, like, having excessive pride,
35:08exactly, and being overly confident
35:10that they can never slip or can never
35:13be wrong and such things.
35:14>> Take that general meaning then.
35:16>> Yes, once a friend of mine, when I
35:17first became fully religious, he wanted
35:19to teach me, so he said, "You could
35:21later—you might even become a
35:23Christian, for example." He said it
35:25just like that. So I told him, "
35:26Impossible, of course." So my point is,
35:28Sayyidna Umar’s position could make
35:30me understand: fear for yourself.
35:32>> Fear for yourself, and know that it is
35:33not in your hands. Thank you, just stop
35:35at that position and move on.
35:36>> Yes, this "fear for yourself."
35:37>> It looks different for this person,
35:39different for that person, and for
35:40another, and so on. It doesn't have to
35:42be in the same form.
35:43>> That’s beautiful. So, it is, I mean,
35:45done. I just have two points. I feel
35:47like I don't want to—I want to repeat
35:49them. That, first of all, stop right
35:51there. Don't cross the point of, "Am I
35:52...""...a hypocrite like that?" That's
35:54very good. Because I'm telling you. "
35:56What am I like?" Then you find yourself
35:57, okay, everything is fine. Peace be
35:59upon you. The matter becomes very easy.
36:01And the second point is that there is a
36:03big difference between the hypocrite
36:05and you imagining that you have reached
36:07him in terms of what is inside him,
36:08dogmatically—why he is doing that.
36:10How is he doing that all the time? I
36:12mean, these things are very good. I
36:14just want to add one point. Ultimately,
36:16sometimes a person might not feel
36:17comfortable in these spaces. And then,
36:20they might realize. Or this could be a
36:23sign that the motive is not a religious
36:24one.
36:26>> Yeah.
36:26>> But sometimes it could be a
36:27psychological motive.
36:30>> Yes, yes, let's say, I mean, there is a
36:32person I could call a council meeting
36:34for—the entire Muslim nation—give
36:36him an approval, have him see a dream
36:38or vision, or even have something come
36:40to him from the sky, an angel. "
36:42>> You are not a hypocrite," and he still
36:44insists, "I am a hypocrite."
36:45>> Yes, why?
36:46>> Here, the issue is not objective.
36:48Meaning it’s not an objective thing.
36:49It’s not just a matter of whether a
36:51relationship is right or wrong. It is
36:52that the person has a problem with
36:53himself. The same person, even if they
36:55aren't a believer or weren't religious,
36:58would consider themselves a failure,
36:59despicable, low-life, and so on. Right.
37:02>> Do you understand me?
37:03>> And even if people say he’s a good
37:05person, we come to the "imposter
37:07syndrome" idea—that even if he seems
37:09...
37:09>> Wait, yes, yes, that’s it.
37:11>> Yes.
37:12>> The syndrome, there it is.
37:13>> Imposter syndrome, yes.
37:14>> Okay, let’s hold on to that term,
37:16just continue, please.
37:17>> Yes, the idea now is...
37:19>> I don’t know it, by the way, and
37:21people don't know it either, only you
37:22know it. Honestly, this imposter
37:28syndrome means that a person might seem
37:30to be good—there are many forms and
37:32motives for this, but an example is
37:34that a person appears good, and people
37:36say he is good.
37:39>> Okay.
37:40>> His interpretation of this is, "I am
37:41enough of an imposter to deceive people
37:43."
37:43>> Wait a second, "I am garbage to begin
37:45with."
37:46>> Wait, he seems good—do you mean he
37:47actually is good?
37:48>> He is good.
37:49>> Oh, okay, so he is good.
37:51>> He is good from our perspective, he is
37:52...
37:53>> No, not from his perspective, not how
37:54he sees it.
37:55>> By the standard that defines good and
37:56bad, he is good.
37:57>> Exactly.
37:58>> And people confirm that.
37:59>> Yes.
38:00>> But he says, "No, I am not good."
38:01>> Yeah, so you tell him, "But everyone
38:03says you're good." He says, "No, it's
38:04just that I played it right."
38:05>> Ah, an imposter, you mean, "I know how
38:07to deceive you."
38:08>> Exactly, "I know how to deceive you."
38:10>> Yes, that’s it—the "I am a
38:11hypocrite" part. That's also, you mean,
38:13leading to the same motive. Why is he
38:15so insistent that he’s bad?
38:17>> He has an internal conflict; the cause
38:19varies in his case.
38:21>> He could be like that even before
38:22entering the path of religion.
38:23>> Yes, exactly.
38:24>> He entered the path of religion. How
38:26did he find it? It could be one of the
38:28symptoms of depression, for example,
38:29Major Depressive Disorder. Ultimately,
38:31the disorder is the problem. A person
38:34feels a sense of...Futility,
38:35worthlessness, and that they are a
38:37failure, despicable, and all that. If
38:39he were an atheist, not religious, he
38:41would start thinking, "I am a failure
38:43in my life, socially, with my family,
38:44everything," in an exaggerated way.
38:46People tell him, "No, you're not like
38:48that," and he insists, "You don't know
38:49what’s going on inside." Tell us. No,
38:52I won't tell you. You wouldn't
38:53understand. You wouldn't understand,
38:55that's it. You don't know what’s
38:56going on. He enters religion, and he
38:58brings the same idea into the religious
38:59side.
39:00>> He will listen to the religion that
39:01claims for itself that "I am like this.
39:03"
39:03>> That one is even worse.
39:04>> That "Religion says so,""The Quran says
39:06so."
39:06>> Exactly, yes, exactly religion. And
39:08you'll find he has that same
39:09selectivity while reading the Quran
39:11that we were talking about, but it's
39:12not—I mean, he'll pick whatever makes
39:13him look like a hypocrite, or whatever
39:14makes him look like this or that. Okay,
39:16but the other things? No, they...
39:18>> This is what works better for me.
39:20>> Oh, I see. You mean religion was
39:22supposed to fix him if he surrendered
39:24himself to those concepts, ideas, and
39:26resolved the inner conflict a little.
39:29>> The idea that "religion is supposed to
39:30fix him," what does that mean?
39:32>> We need to pause there for a moment.
39:33What does it mean that "religion should
39:35fix him"?
39:35>> I mean, what does religion tell you?
39:37What is religion?
39:38>> The ideas in the revelation, and how
39:40will these revelation ideas come to a
39:42person?
39:43>> When he is exposed to them, when he
39:45reads, understands, and learns.
39:46>> Where will he read? In the Quran,
39:48religious circles, and books. I’m
39:50giving textbook answers.
39:52>> No, that’s fine, but have you noticed
39:54you’re talking about something very
39:55complex, intricate, and long-term?
39:57>> Yes, of course.
39:58>> I mean, for example, if I became
39:59religious yesterday, the thing you’re
40:01talking about won’t happen today.
40:02>> No, no. What I’m talking about is a
40:04life lived with these ideas and
40:05meanings over the years.
40:06>> Exactly. Because the end goal of
40:07religion and commitment is to do such
40:09and such to him. He imagines that
40:10because, for example...
40:11>> He went to two lessons, prayed Dhuhr,
40:13and is like, "What? Why haven’t I
40:14changed?"
40:15>> No, I mean that he surrendered himself
40:17to the ideas and meanings that...
40:18>> Even "surrendering himself," that’s
40:20not easy, okay? Because mind you, "
40:22surrendering himself"...
40:23>> There will still be a tug-of-war.
40:26>> It’s hard for you to enter anything
40:27and leave all your background at the
40:29door.
40:31>> It is hard.
40:32>> Right.
40:37>> Okay, so here is a long journey in
40:39trying to get rid of my background, or
40:41my collective mindset, my prior
40:42perceptions, and trying to fix them
40:44little by little. And this will come in
40:51stages.
40:53>> Hmm.
40:53>> Okay, but in the end, if you say a
40:55person is a blank slate, how will he
40:57understand the Quran? He understands it
40:59according to his perceptions.
41:00>> At first, he understands it wrongly.
41:02>> Yes, he understands it wrongly, and
41:04it’s possible—and you could also
41:05say, for example, he went to a lesson,
41:07but that lesson might actually be what
41:09ruined him further, with all due
41:10respect. It’s possible, yes. It
41:13instilled the wrong idea he already had
41:14.
41:14>> Exactly. So now he was treating his
41:17background, treating the, right, and
41:18also treating the one who gave the
41:20lesson. That could be a factor. I mean,
41:22because we’re saying the idea that...
41:26He didn’t "surrender himself" to
41:28religion; that’s something that might
41:30seem easy, but it’s not easy.
41:32>> It’s not easy. It’s something
41:35dynamic, continuous, and extended.
41:39>> So, I’m coming in with this imposter
41:41syndrome. And that I’m basically "bad
41:44," as a result of whatever I’ve been
41:46exposed to in my life. And my
41:47environment, and my perceptions, I mean
41:50. And tests I’ve entered and failed.
41:51And people’s words and judgment. So,
41:53I already have this problem. Okay, what
41:57do I do then? How do I solve it? I mean
42:00, how does a person help himself? While
42:03he has—this is just my opinion. He
42:06has something that helps him to...that
42:08he...The meanings and ideas in the
42:10Seerah, the lives of the Companions,
42:12and revelation guide you to what is
42:14right, what the wisdom is, and what is
42:16good here. You mean, you mean your own
42:19human nature. How did God create us? Is
42:21it me? That's what I mean. I mean that
42:23religion helps. By religion, I mean all
42:25the ideas, meanings, and concepts. That
42:27I will see and hear in the revelation.
42:29And from the people who lived by this
42:30religion correctly. The Prophet, peace
42:32be upon him, and the Companions. And so
42:34on.
42:34>> So I am hearing about them,
42:36understanding them, and seeing the
42:37truth, so this is a very good tool to
42:39help me untangle these conflicts.
42:41>> Right.
42:43>> But, but this requires effort, and I
42:45shouldn't take this talk unconsciously
42:47and misapply it in the wrong places.
42:50>> Because what I imagine is that I might
42:51find Hadiths that I could understand in
42:53a certain way and interpret in a
42:54certain way.
42:55>> That helps me make the problem bigger.
42:56>> It will make the problem bigger.
42:58>> I mean, just as we have people who took
42:59the revelation and went on to declare
43:01others disbelievers, commit violence,
43:02and make a huge mess in the name of
43:04religion, we also have people who will
43:05understand that I am a hypocrite, so
43:07they will understand that I am bad. Yes
43:08, look, the Prophet said this about me,
43:10so I am with you on that.
43:11>> And this is not new; you had these
43:13types even in the era of the Companions
43:14, in the era of the Prophet, peace be
43:16upon him.
43:16>> I mean, people came and tried to
43:17instruct the Prophet, peace be upon him
43:18—no, not the Companions—trying to
43:19lecture the Prophet, peace be upon him,
43:21saying, "Be just, O Muhammad."
43:21>> Ah, I see, yes.
43:23>> Yes, exactly, no, no, he said, "Be just
43:24, O Muhammad," meaning, in the end, he
43:26was trying to teach him justice.
43:27>> Ah, okay.
43:29>> Alright, fine, I am also with you that
43:31this is a complex and difficult journey
43:33.
43:34>> Okay.
43:34>> And I imagine the first thing it
43:36requires from me is patience, patience,
43:38patience—because one might just give
43:40up and quit, that is also a factor.
43:42>> Yes, in the end, a person might
43:43sometimes form wrong perceptions; for
43:45example, he might misunderstand "it is
43:47in the remembrance of God that hearts
43:49find rest" and...I mean, I just saw a
43:51comment from someone about something.
43:53That in the end, well...I, we have
43:55problems. I have behavioral addictions.
43:57And I have this, and I have that, and I
43:58have that. Well, I became religious,
44:00yet these things. They didn't change.
44:02So why is that? How, then, is religion
44:03supposed to be what helps? No, you are
44:05understanding it wrong.
44:06>> As long as you enter with that
44:08perception, you will feel that in the
44:09end, "I tried religion and it didn't
44:11work, I tried..."
44:11>> Yes.
44:12>> First of all, you don't "try" it; in
44:13the end, you don't become religious to
44:15"try" it out.
44:16>> Okay, for you to fix your life, I mean.
44:18>> Furthermore, you see, religion is one
44:21thing and religiosity is another.
44:24Religiosity is not just a decision;
44:26religiosity is a long journey.
44:29>> A long journey of disciplining the self
44:31, a long journey of becoming imbued,
44:32being imbued with religion and the
44:34meanings of religion; it doesn't just
44:36happen like that—the idea that I want
44:38to finish this whole religious
44:39curriculum in one sitting, it doesn't
44:41work, and I want to solve my problems
44:43quickly.
44:44>> If the Companions and the Prophet,
44:45peace be upon him, had the Meccan
44:47period, which was 13 years, and the
44:49Medinan period, a large part of all
44:51that was preparation for the Companions
44:53. "
44:54>> Restrain your hands and establish
44:55prayer"—leave everything, it's not
44:57like that. You need to be nurtured
44:58first, little by little, and the
45:00legislation was revealed gradually. The
45:02Prophet, peace be upon him, was
45:03nurturing these souls. You want to
45:05finish the entire religion in one day?
45:07>> Yes, even the companions didn't finish.
45:09I mean, until the death of the Prophet,
45:10peace be upon him, nurturing was still
45:12taking place. There were situations
45:14like the Battle of Tabuk, the Battle of
45:15Uhud, and the Battle of the Trench.
45:17>> Exactly, so we're talking about...it's
45:19not that they spent 13 years and then
45:20were finished.
45:21>> No, they continued until they passed
45:23away.
45:23>> Yes.
45:24>> So, religiosity or reaching...
45:26>> And things happened even after the
45:28death of the Prophet, peace be upon him
45:29.
45:30>> I mean...
45:30>> Again, this misconception will make a
45:32person, when they become religious or
45:34walk the path of faith for a bit......
45:36feel, "No, I still have many problems."
45:38"I can't seem to leave this specific
45:39sin.""I still have a problem.""No, I
45:41still have this.""I still have that.""I
45:43still have this." Then they will start
45:44thinking. Satan will open two doors of
45:46destruction for them.
45:48>> Either the first door......
45:49>> is that this religion itself has a
45:51problem. Right, meaning if it were the
45:53truth, you would have become an angel
45:55by now.
45:55>> This is a completely wrong perception,
45:57or that there is something wrong with
45:59you, and God hasn't accepted you.
46:00>> Yes, the problem is within you. The
46:02problem is in the world, the problem is
46:03in you—great, it covers everything
46:05for him.
46:05>> Go and set yourself on fire then, in
46:07any case. So, of course, this path
46:09leads to destruction. And this method
46:11is what? It ends in destruction. So
46:13also, as you said, the idea of "
46:15surrender yourself to the religion"
46:17shouldn't be misunderstood.
46:19>> The idea that my role in this process
46:20of becoming religious is a passive one;
46:22it is definitely not passive, right?
46:24>> Yes, "surrender yourself, don't do
46:26anything"—you mean there is that
46:27feeling?
46:28>> I mean a trap. I'm sure you don't mean
46:30that, but I'm just considering it.
46:31>> Ah, right, okay.
46:33>> Surrender yourself does not mean "let
46:34go and do nothing."
46:35>> Exactly. And it's not the idea that you
46:37don't have a specific role. You do have
46:40a role, and a role that might be
46:42described as "non-religious"—not in
46:43the sense of being against religion.
46:46>> You mean not prayer?
46:47>> Not prayer, exactly.
46:49>> Not the prayer.
46:50>> Exactly, it has a role.
46:51>> It has an important role.
46:52>> But in the end, there are other aspects
46:54.
46:54>> Like what we are talking about now. We
46:56are not talking about prayer exactly.
46:57We are talking about it. And just like
46:59my life being disorganized. I have
47:00problems. I have pressures. I have
47:02worries. I have misconceptions about
47:03myself and about life. And all of this
47:05has an impact. It has an impact; I
47:06can't just leave all of this behind.
47:08>> It's the same idea regarding a sin I'm
47:10addicted to; I'm an addict.
47:13>> Whatever the type of addiction, most
47:15addictions—whether substances,
47:17something a person consumes, or
47:19behavioral addictions...
47:22>> Um. ...
47:23>> the drive isn't the act itself. Someone
47:26addicted to pornography, someone
47:28addicted to scrolling on screens,
47:30someone addicted to gambling, or
47:31someone addicted to a substance they
47:33consume.
47:36>> In most cases, the motive is not the
47:38pleasure of the pornography itself...
47:41...
47:41>> or the substance itself, or this, or
47:43that.
47:43>> Usually, this is a coping mechanism a
47:45person gets used to in order to escape
47:47their pressures.
47:48>> Um, yes, like an eating disorder, like
47:50someone, I mean, a woman exhausted with
47:52her kids all morning, so she's
47:53constantly snacking.
47:55>> Exactly, what they call emotional
47:56eating. Exactly, why am I eating? Now,
47:59if I want to go on a diet, for the diet
48:01to succeed, you need to manage the
48:03pressures you have well, because that's
48:04the gateway through which you fall.
48:07>> Right, you can't just go on a diet,
48:08people think I...
48:09>> We, we concluded that part of the
48:11treatment might be something in your
48:13habits, your traits, your social life.
48:15>> In your life in general.
48:16>> In your life, in your psychological
48:18side, between you and your family, your
48:19traumas, your problems. Of course, not
48:21everyone is like that.
48:22>> Yeah, so when I say religion will solve
48:24it, I've created two problems in my
48:26perception. First, that religion will
48:28solve it, I assumed it was just prayer.
48:30>> Exactly.
48:31>> I assumed it was just prayer. And that
48:33I will, you know, give some charity. So
48:34I took a very small piece of the things
48:36that I must...I stopped...Why, I mean,
48:38why, why, for example? Why, why, I mean
48:41, why does the urge still exist?
48:44Because these things had an impact on
48:46building faith. And on how a person...
48:48The second thing, my wrong perception,
48:50is when I said religion. I assumed that
48:52I...I've been attending lessons for a
48:54month now.
48:54>> I didn't understand. No, it means there
48:56are many ideas and meanings. You won't
48:58get them in a day. You'll get them over
49:01years, and I...I think, really, when I
49:03meant "surrender yourself," I meant you
49:05now have...I see it as the best thing
49:07that can help you. Which is the correct
49:09ideas and concepts. And they will be
49:11presented to you in a lively, logical,
49:13and realistic way. Stay with it, I mean
49:14, stay with it. Listen to it, expose
49:16yourself to it, understand it, and...
49:17And sit and struggle with yourself when
49:19you misunderstand it or take it the
49:20wrong way. And sit with someone, talk,
49:22and ask, that's what I mean.
49:24>> I also want to clarify something to
49:26myself, when I said things that seem
49:28non-religious, I mean they seem
49:29non-religious.
49:31>> You mean it's not prayer? Exactly, but
49:32I want to say that whoever understands
49:34religion correctly knows that all of
49:36this is religion.
49:37>> It is religion.
49:38>> Okay.
49:38>> Glory be to God.
49:39>> That every struggle against oneself,
49:40isn't this struggle an act of servitude
49:42?
49:42>> I am doing it for God in the first
49:43place.
49:44>> Exactly, I'm doing it for God. So this
49:46struggle, is it only in trying to get
49:48up to pray? No, this struggle is in
49:50leaving that thing. But this struggle
49:52is an interaction, I mean, there is a
49:54process.
49:54>> I mean, something that goes back and
49:56forth. This struggle has causes, and
49:58among those causes is what?
50:00>> Exactly, the causes that seem
50:02non-religious, just like someone who is
50:04angry.
50:04>> Ah, okay. Are you going to get up and
50:06pray, say dhikr? No, there are other
50:08things that can be done.
50:09>> Yes, wash his face.
50:10>> Wash his face, if he was standing, what
50:12should he do? Sit down, change his
50:14location, and all that.
50:15>> So even that is a struggle. Is this
50:17something a person is rewarded for? Can
50:20a person be rewarded? Does the method
50:22of struggle have to be something purely
50:24devotional? No.
50:25>> But it falls under the concept of
50:26worship in the general sense.
50:27>> Yes, that falls under the meaning of "
50:29Indeed, my prayer, my rites of
50:30sacrifice, my living and my dying are
50:31for Allah."
50:32>> And just as you said, the idea of
50:33motives, meaning the intention and the
50:34drive—why am I fixing this and doing
50:36that?
50:36>> Exactly.
50:37>> That is very important.
50:38>> So that, for example, [one meets] Allah
50:39with a sound heart, in the general
50:40sense.
50:41>> What do you think about interrupting
50:42and interjecting? On the contrary,
50:43it’s nice. Tell them, "I’m
50:44listening to someone now," so, "Son, be
50:46quiet."
50:47>> No, I was actually egging you on. I
50:48swear, I was egging you on about him.
50:51>> Can I go back to the part you mentioned
50:53about sadness?
50:55>> Sure.
50:55>> I have two feelings I want to talk
50:57about; the first is sadness.
50:59>> Hmm.
51:02>> From what I understand, sadness is one
51:03of the things that can lead to
51:05depression. And yet, there are
51:08situations where the Prophet, peace be
51:10upon him, would feel sad. In the Quran,
51:12it sometimes says, "So do not let their
51:14disbelief grieve you," and "Do not
51:16grieve over them." So sometimes, and
51:17Allah says to the mother of Moses, "Do
51:19not fear and do not grieve." So
51:20sometimes, don't be sad. And sometimes,
51:23sadness is actually legitimate. It’s
51:26clear there is a natural space for it,
51:28for a human being, for sure. Then there
51:31is the slide—the slippery slope that
51:33a person might fall into, so I...I just
51:35want you to tell me how one should view
51:37this part. And how does it not reach
51:40that point? Is this actually part of
51:42something that leads to depression?
51:44>> No, that absolute statement shouldn't
51:46be made. Depression doesn't necessarily
51:48come from sadness; it isn't always the
51:50case. Sadness might not just be
51:52legitimate, it might be required.
51:53>> Oh.
51:54>> Right, it might be required for a
51:56person to feel sad, otherwise, they
51:58wouldn't be human.
52:00>> So...On the contrary, let me tell you
52:05that the absence of sadness might lead
52:07to depression.
52:08>> Wow.
52:09>> Oh, you’re stirring up debate.
52:12>> Okay, sometimes...
52:13>> I want to talk about sadness, and then
52:15I want to talk about depression.
52:16>> Fine, but sometimes, suppressing
52:18emotions—including feelings of
52:19sadness—might lead a person to
52:21depression. The natural release of
52:23feelings, including the release of
52:25sadness, might actually prevent a
52:26person from getting depressed.
52:28>> Hmm.
52:30>> But artificial stoicism and forcing
52:32oneself not to be sad in a context
52:34where a human should feel sad, that can
52:36destroy a person.
52:38>> Hmm.
52:39>> Therefore, that absolute claim isn't
52:41correct. Does sadness cause depression?
52:43No. It could be the lack of sadness, or
52:45sadness itself is what prevents
52:46depression.
52:47>> And the absence of sadness is what
52:48leads to depression.
52:49>> But regardless, what leads to
52:51depression is something complex; it’s
52:52not just whether a person feels sad or
52:54not. It is a very complex and intricate
52:56matter. We are, of course, talking
52:58about clinical depression.
52:59>> Ah. I want to talk now based on this
53:01subject. The word "depression" is used
53:03almost in every gathering, every day.
53:05And it's the "disease of the age," what
53:07does that mean? Personally, I feel like
53:09I'm not focusing at all. Like with
53:11Corona, for example. Someone not
53:13wearing a mask. It's like, what is that
53:14? There's something people are talking
53:16about. But in reality, it's taking up a
53:18very large space. So, truthfully...Do I
53:20have a problem because I’m not
53:22looking at it much? Could I be getting
53:25depressed and not know it? I mean,
53:28should I pay attention to this subject
53:29or not? Well, let me see.
53:31>> You are really something.
53:33>> I mean, if I'm stating it right, okay.
53:35>> No, a person shouldn't sit around,
53:37shouldn't be obsessed with the idea of
53:39whether I have depression or not, if
53:40you have clinical depression. I mean,
53:42clinical, pathological, medical. Then
53:44you, you will know. Everyone will know.
53:46Somewhat, so. Not necessarily, not
53:48necessarily. They might lack
53:50self-awareness. But in the end,
53:51something will be wrong. I mean,
53:52something will be off. Regardless, I
53:54might not realize it's depression. But
53:55I feel something is wrong.
53:56>> What do you mean, like what is wrong?
53:57>> Like being incapacitated, my life
53:59stopped, it was moving and then it
54:01stopped. But let me step back and say
54:04that the word "depression" is a blanket
54:06term, meaning it's applied to many,
54:07many different things that are totally
54:09unrelated. For example, there's natural
54:13depression, any human...
54:14>> Naturally, because we tend to say "
54:16depressed" when we are sad.
54:18>> Yes, exactly, I might be...in the end,
54:20depression is just a translation of
54:22feeling down, a person can feel down. I
54:25might feel down for some reason. Due to
54:26a passing event, I mean. I feel passing
54:28sadness because of...Passing, same idea
54:30. Depression is just a depressed mood.
54:32You understand, there is mood, and
54:34there is depressed. My mood dropped.
54:36Can my mood drop occasionally? For some
54:38reason, I might encounter a situation
54:39that upsets me greatly, or shuts me
54:41down, so I become "closed off."
54:42>> Is that what being depressed means?
54:44That I'm closed off?
54:45>> So, when someone tells you "I'm having
54:46a bad day, I'm closed off today," do
54:48you say "No, you need to see a
54:49psychiatrist because you're closed off
54:51today"? No, it's normal, we all shut
54:53down.
54:53>> Not just today, it doesn't have to be,
54:55but we all shut down, okay, yes.
54:58>> So just because I'm shut down,
55:00depressed, I mean, a bit down for this
55:02period.
55:05>> That is normal.
55:06>> A human has drops; being happy all the
55:08time, that's the problem, actually.
55:10>> That person is very rich.
55:13>> No, honestly, even the very rich carry
55:15worries from time to time. The idea is
55:18that this is very normal to happen.
55:21Like, I don't know, this terrible thing
55:24, I don't know, 200 million, Sawiris
55:26said once, I couldn't sleep at night,
55:29200 million, exactly, exactly, a bit
55:31depressed.
55:34>> Look, let me tell you something, the
55:36idea of medical contexts is that we try
55:38to represent it with a graph, where
55:39there is a baseline.
55:42>> For the mood, okay.
55:43>> Fine.
55:44>> No human being in the world walks in a
55:46straight line like that on the baseline
55:48. No one, no one in the world is like
55:50that. As long as we are going through
55:51life, we dip below it and rise above it
55:53, dip below it and rise above it. We
55:55pause at it sometimes, go below it a
55:56bit, go above it a bit. So the mood
55:58sometimes can be elevated, you're happy
56:00, joyful, excited, active, and so on.
56:02Then another period comes and you are,
56:04what, a bit closed off, from time to
56:06time.
56:06>> As long as we are within these bounds,
56:07as long as there are limits above and
56:09below, as long as we are moving within
56:11them, we are within the normal range.
56:12This is very normal, the normal human
56:14goes up and down amid...
56:15>> Between these.
56:16>> Good.
56:17>> If you go above the normal limit, then
56:18you are not normal.
56:19>> Actually, even on the positive side.
56:21>> Yes, exactly. There is a disorder
56:23called bipolar. All right. Why is it
56:25called bipolar? Because, mood-wise, it
56:28isn't just a tilt toward one pole. Not
56:30just toward one side. Just one. It’s
56:32a tilt toward both poles. You go way up
56:34, and way down. You might think that
56:36going way up. Is good. Is that a good
56:38thing? Not at all. Because, eventually,
56:40if you go way up, you're going to crash
56:42.
56:42>> If you go up way too high, more than
56:44necessary.
56:44>> Yes, and the situation might not even
56:46be appropriate for you to be like that.
56:48>> Uh.
56:48>> I mean, of course, it's not.
56:50>> No, no, it’s something unnatural.
56:52>> It’s really something unnatural, like
56:54the Joker.
56:55>> Yes, yes, it’s something very
56:57unnatural. No, it's actually unnatural,
57:01but this is a personality disorder, I
57:03mean.
57:04>> I mean, that’s also not normal;
57:06it’s like euphoria, like someone who
57:08has taken drugs; they are up there, a
57:09massive high, you understand? So, in
57:11the end, it’s something unnatural,
57:13that degree of elation is unnatural.
57:15>> Okay.
57:16>> And it’s not good for a person to be
57:18in that state.
57:18>> That sounds great.
57:19>> So, I mean, in the end, I want to
57:21reiterate that there are limits within
57:23which a person goes up and down, and
57:25that is very normal. It is very normal
57:28for a person to be down and sometimes
57:30depressed for reasonable causes and for
57:31a certain time; as long as it stays
57:33within those normal limits, it’s fine
57:35.
57:36>> Well, a question: If I am within these
57:38normal limits and my mood is a bit low
57:39because of a situation, and my mood is
57:41low—not necessarily because of a
57:43situation—sometimes, for example,
57:45let's talk about the hormonal cycle,
57:47and there is a hormonal cycle for
57:48everyone, of course, but it might be
57:50more evident in women.
57:52>> But the idea is that the hormonal
57:54aspect, the sleep and wake cycle, the
57:56person's circadian rhythm has an impact
57:58.
57:59>> Yes, of course, you might have your
58:01circadian rhythm messed up and you wake
58:03up unable to stand yourself and your
58:04mood is down. Why? It's your sleep, my
58:07friend. But if it isn't the hormonal
58:09cycle or sleep—like if a situation
58:11happened?
58:12>> Yes, I’m saying it doesn't have to be
58:13.
58:13>> Yes, I’m saying, is it okay in that
58:15case to help myself get out of this
58:17mood? They are just thoughts, in the
58:19end, a situation happened, so in the
58:20end, I should help myself or talk to
58:22someone?
58:22>> If you are a normal person, you will
58:24know how to help yourself and get out
58:26of it easily.
58:26>> By myself or with someone?
58:28>> By yourself, by yourself or with
58:29someone; venting to my friend, venting
58:31to my wife, venting—so in the end,
58:32when I vented, they said "I'm sorry,"
58:34and when they said "I'm sorry,"
58:35that’s very normal; that’s a good
58:37sign, we are all like that.
58:38>> But for the person, no—we’ll come
58:40back, as we agreed in the second
58:42episode, to the idea that...
58:46>> That the problems or symptoms. Are on a
58:51spectrum; there is a normal degree, and
58:54it increases, increases, increases
58:55until we reach a certain gray area, and
58:58we start entering clearly into the
59:00thing that is...
59:01>> What is not normal.
59:02>> You said the biggest indicator is that
59:04you are stalled, that you are
59:05incapacitated.
59:06>> Yes, exactly; one of the most important
59:07things that indicate it is that life is
59:09stalled, life is stalled for a period
59:11that isn't...
59:11>> An abnormal duration; for example, and
59:13this isn't set in stone, but they’ve
59:15agreed in cases of Major Depressive
59:17Disorder on two weeks. For two weeks,
59:19this person has had no major life
59:21problems.
59:22>> And they are stalled.
59:23>> There’s no grief, for instance; no
59:25one has died, nothing of the sort. Yet
59:27for two weeks, they have been lost,
59:29suffering from severe, abnormal
59:31incapacity. This person wasn't like
59:34this before.
59:36>> They entered a phase, an episode.
59:39>> Depression—of course, depression
59:41doesn't have to be episodic, but the
59:42classic presentation of depression is
59:44that it is episodic, meaning an episode
59:46.
59:46>> Right, I was fine, then I entered a
59:48depressive episode, meaning I became
59:49unable to get out of bed, unable to
59:51interact with people, feeling very
59:52heavy.
59:53>> No acts of worship, no life, nothing at
59:55all.
59:55>> Not anything, really. In the end, a
59:57depressed patient comes complaining, "I
59:58want to endure."
59:59>> Yes. "
1:00:00>> I’m fed up with myself, disgusted
1:00:01with myself, I can’t do it, I want to
1:00:03comb my hair, but I can’t." Even
1:00:05their mind is disconnected, so this is
1:00:07abnormal.
1:00:08>> That’s it, go see a doctor
1:00:09immediately.
1:00:10>> Yes.
1:00:10>> That is definitely for a doctor,
1:00:12because this is not normal, you are not
1:00:13normal.
1:00:14>> An extended state, I can’t get out of
1:00:15it. My life is collapsing, my studies
1:00:17are falling apart, my worship is
1:00:19falling apart, my work is failing, my
1:00:21marriage is falling apart; no, here I
1:00:23can’t get out.
1:00:24>> So, there is a very normal space for
1:00:26sadness, and sometimes it is healthy
1:00:28and necessary.
1:00:28>> And there is a very normal space for—
1:00:30forgive me, a very normal and necessary
1:00:33space for anxiety.
1:00:34>> There is a normal and necessary space
1:00:36for many other things, but really, many
1:00:38of the disorders, the whole issue is,
1:00:40what is the normal space?
1:00:42>> Also, I want to mention a point.
1:00:46>> When we talk about depression,
1:00:47sometimes it is confused with...Between
1:00:53pathological depression, and even the
1:00:54normal image and the spectrum we talked
1:00:56about, and what might be described as
1:00:58existential depression.
1:01:00>> What kind of depression?
1:01:01>> Existential, philosophical depression.
1:01:04>> Yes.
1:01:04>> Right, so this could be...I mean, it
1:01:06could be normal; I mean, in the end.
1:01:08>> What is it, anyway?
1:01:10>> Yes, exactly, what is it? I mean, in
1:01:13the end, when I see, when I see, for
1:01:15example, society is broken. And I see
1:01:18many, many things. And I see the amount
1:01:20of fragility. I see what the modern
1:01:21system has imposed on us. From, say,
1:01:24capitalism? Big topics, right? We are
1:01:26running on a treadmill. And I see what
1:01:28is happening. I see what is happening
1:01:29to Muslims. I see the injustice. And
1:01:30the oppression, for example, present in
1:01:32Gaza. And the fragmentation we are in.
1:01:33And so on, and so on. And this truly
1:01:35affects me. And it makes me deeply
1:01:36troubled.
1:01:37>> Okay.
1:01:37>> Is this something pathological?
1:01:39>> No, it’s actually logical.
1:01:40>> Exactly, it’s a very logical thing.
1:01:42Now, could it reach a point where it
1:01:44becomes pathological? We agreed that if
1:01:46you stall, become incapable, and stop
1:01:48functioning, then yes.
1:01:49>> Exactly. Is this different from the "
1:01:51getting locked up" depression? It is
1:01:53different; it is deeper.
1:01:56>> It is deeper and more persistent than
1:01:58that, but it still does not reach the
1:02:00point of being...
1:02:01>> It’s like it lowered my baseline a
1:02:03bit in general.
1:02:04>> Exactly.
1:02:05>> You could consider it so.
1:02:06>> So, is this a good thing or a bad thing
1:02:08?
1:02:08>> I mean, I want to be affected by the
1:02:09state of the Ummah.
1:02:10>> See, this is something that needs
1:02:12balance. Let’s go back to the idea of
1:02:14politics; it needs a balance so it
1:02:15doesn’t overwhelm you, like what
1:02:17we're talking about, for example, the
1:02:19events in Gaza.
1:02:19>> You always ask yourself: should I
1:02:21follow the news or not?
1:02:22>> There’s no satisfying answer.
1:02:24>> Yeah.
1:02:25>> You need—you need not to be helpless
1:02:27and paralyzed, because that won't
1:02:29benefit your faith, your worldly life,
1:02:31or anyone else.
1:02:32>> Exactly.
1:02:33>> And you also need not to be heartless,
1:02:35meaning you shouldn't ignore that there
1:02:37are people around you in this nation
1:02:38going through this, acting as if they
1:02:40don't exist or as if it’s not part of
1:02:42your life.
1:02:43>> And saying "I don't want to trouble my
1:02:45mind" or "I don't want to know what's
1:02:47happening so I don't upset myself"—no
1:02:49, here lies the problem.
1:02:50>> There is a problem here, exactly.
1:02:52>> This eventually makes a person—well,
1:02:54this might be a bit deep to call a
1:02:56philosophical book...
1:03:00>> I mean, we are talking about
1:03:01existential and philosophical anxiety,
1:03:03and all that. What moves a human being
1:03:09—not just on a personal level, but on
1:03:11a collective one—to change and do
1:03:13something, is anger, depression, and
1:03:15sorrow, right?
1:03:18>> Oh, you mean depression in the sense of
1:03:20sadness—the useful kind, the
1:03:22philosophical or existential or
1:03:23holistic kind, and so on. So, the idea
1:03:25is, if I ultimately want to have no
1:03:27sorrow and not worry about anything...
1:03:29>> That’s fine. My brain is disconnected
1:03:31from everything. I mean, I don't want
1:03:33anything. In the end, you’ll turn
1:03:35into...Or maybe, if we want to cancel
1:03:38this entirely, and cancel any
1:03:39existential anxiety entirely, or
1:03:41anything of that sort...This side, we
1:03:44could actually turn into...Meaning, we
1:03:46...What does "all enjoy" mean? Like me,
1:03:49exactly. So the idea is that I just
1:03:52live day by day and that's it, and so
1:03:54on.
1:03:57>> Well, just like we said about regret,
1:03:59that it’s a tool, and if I...If I...
1:04:01it benefits me to, let's say, assume
1:04:03what? Someone who follows the news
1:04:06intensely, or doesn't follow it at all.
1:04:08I follow a very small amount. This
1:04:10really helps me not to drown. It keeps
1:04:13me moving for their sake. It’s the
1:04:15same concept of regret, orientation,
1:04:16and political concern—take...Take
1:04:18from the situation what will benefit
1:04:20you, so you can continue and get back
1:04:21up and so on.
1:04:22>> It has a weight. In the end, if you
1:04:24remain so immersed in it that you
1:04:25become helpless and disabled...
1:04:27>> That’s a big problem, a very big
1:04:28problem.
1:04:29>> Yeah, and naturally, what I’m saying
1:04:30is that the minimum doesn't mean I'm
1:04:32oblivious to them, it just means that
1:04:33something is definitely moving me, but
1:04:35...
1:04:36>> I actually do avoid certain videos
1:04:37because I know the effect they’ll
1:04:39have on me will be bad.
1:04:41>> So, I take in the amount that benefits
1:04:43me.
1:04:43>> Now, the question is: must I watch
1:04:45these videos and say "No, you must
1:04:47watch"? No.
1:04:48>> Whoever wants to make them, let them,
1:04:49because there’s someone who benefits
1:04:51from them greatly.
1:04:52>> And there’s someone who is harmed by
1:04:53them greatly.
1:04:53>> Whoever makes them can do so as long as
1:04:55they are useful to them. "
1:04:57>> Useful" doesn't mean the heart is
1:04:59enlightened; the heart might be
1:05:00burdened, but as long as this burden...
1:05:02>> Helps them move.
1:05:03>> Within normal limits, and it helps them
1:05:05take action, then in the long run, it
1:05:07is useful.
1:05:07>> That’s very beautiful. Now, I’m
1:05:09going to change the subject entirely.
1:05:11>> Okay.
1:05:13>> It was—it was written that way, okay.
1:05:17I want to ask you something now. There
1:05:20are people who enter a path of
1:05:22commitment. And then they encounter
1:05:26some ideas. So things related to doubt
1:05:29might happen to them. And that is
1:05:33suspicion and deviation. Do you see
1:05:35what I mean? Meaning intellectual
1:05:37thoughts and deviations. So does this
1:05:39relate to their own self? Do you
1:05:43understand what I mean?
1:05:44>> I understand, yes.
1:05:45>> I don’t know if people understood
1:05:46anything yet.
1:05:47>> I understand, I understand.
1:05:48>> I’m saying this to you so the
1:05:49audience understands, maybe you can say
1:05:51you understood.
1:05:51>> I mean, did you understand what I’m
1:05:53asking about?
1:05:53>> Yes, I understand. I understand. I mean
1:05:56, whether they are committed or not
1:05:57committed. It could be a very normal
1:05:58person, by the way. Someone might have
1:06:00been their whole life, for example, not
1:06:01religious at all. Or religious, yes,
1:06:03very normal. Someone could have been
1:06:04raised religious with religious
1:06:06explanations. And then they might later
1:06:07become an atheist. They denied God,
1:06:09glory be to Him. Okay.
1:06:10>> Yes.
1:06:11>> These deviations.
1:06:12>> Could it be a psychological drive?
1:06:13>> Yes, that is my question: is there a
1:06:14relationship with the self?
1:06:16>> No.
1:06:16>> And the motives behind why someone
1:06:18might doubt, deviate, and say "how," do
1:06:20you know what I mean, and get confused?
1:06:23>> No, on the contrary, let's say that the
1:06:25root of these motives is psychological;
1:06:27they are psychological drives. Look,
1:06:29when the Quran diagnosed the state of
1:06:31the polytheists.
1:06:32>> Was it diagnosing it as an objective
1:06:34state, a philosophical state, for
1:06:36example? Was the state of the
1:06:37polytheists originally...
1:06:39>> An objective philosophical state? No,
1:06:42what does that mean?
1:06:44>> Talking about...
1:06:45>> Oh no, of course not. Surely, yes,
1:06:47about whims, certainly. But I am trying
1:06:49to understand. Did they have specific
1:06:51doubts? Were they even real doubts?
1:06:53Even the partial doubts mentioned in
1:06:55Surah Al-Furqan, which the Quran
1:06:56answered, were they truly doubts? "
1:06:58>> Nay, but they deny the Hour."
1:07:00>> Exactly, "Nay.""Nay" is what you call a
1:07:02disclaimer. Exactly, in the end, it’s
1:07:04a correction. It’s not the reality;
1:07:06they denied the Hour. He actually
1:07:08harbors the denial of the Hour, and he
1:07:10acts upon that, and he has no intention
1:07:12...Okay, why did they deny the Hour?
1:07:14For many reasons that are also found in
1:07:15...Found in the person. So, he is a
1:07:17person who has whims, has arrogance,
1:07:18has this and that. All of these are
1:07:20psychological things. This
1:07:21psychological aspect was the motive for
1:07:23him. And the driver for him. Okay, so
1:07:24the point is that this exists. Even the
1:07:26Quran...what? The Quran presents it for
1:07:28very many...People may have drivers for
1:07:30intellectual deviations. In responding
1:07:32to doubts. In searching for them in the
1:07:33first place. Meaning, someone might be
1:07:35the one looking for the doubt. As a
1:07:36result of the struggle that exists
1:07:38inside him in one way or another. So
1:07:40that is the most common. For example, I
1:07:42will tell you, yes.
1:07:44>> Like the idea that someone...that
1:07:46someone sees, for instance, what is
1:07:48happening to our brothers in Gaza.
1:07:51>> He cannot bear it; he is more fragile.
1:07:54>> Than to bear that, and he lived through
1:07:56something...
1:07:57>> Yes, yes.
1:07:58>> He is watching on TV, he is watching on
1:08:00Facebook, okay? Yet, he cannot bear it,
1:08:03so he begins to...
1:08:04>> Doubt the mercy of God, the wisdom of
1:08:06God, the existence of God, glory be to
1:08:08Him, the validity of the faith, how we
1:08:11are on the truth, or is it okay?
1:08:12>> And it happens, and it happens like
1:08:14that in one way or another, and then he
1:08:15starts searching...
1:08:16>> Whether...whether...Did it start
1:08:19objectively? Like, reading a philosophy
1:08:21book, an objective book? Is he thinking
1:08:23in an objective, philosophical way? Not
1:08:25at all. It started from a psychological
1:08:27pain that is what...That drove him.
1:08:29That made him question things in the
1:08:30first place. Then he started searching.
1:08:32And maybe later, the doubts began. So
1:08:34it aligned with the psychological pain
1:08:36and anger inside him.
1:08:38>> Yes, it existed within him, so he
1:08:40started to indulge in it and adopt it,
1:08:42letting it grow inside him. Not because
1:08:46it’s true, but because it aligns with
1:08:48the pain, the anger, and the volcanic
1:08:50turmoil within him.
1:08:52>> Hmm.
1:08:53>> He might have been subjected to
1:08:55injustice or oppression.
1:08:56>> Hmm.
1:08:58>> And he starts to...No, he sees...he has
1:09:00a certain perception. Maybe he formed
1:09:05this perception himself, or through...
1:09:07Some shallow sermons, for instance,
1:09:08claiming that if you answer God's call,
1:09:10if you pray and supplicate, you will
1:09:12get exactly what you want.
1:09:15>> Hmm.
1:09:16>> Right, so he’s committed now. His
1:09:18religiosity started; he prays
1:09:20constantly, keeps up with all the
1:09:22prayers at the mosque, waiting for the
1:09:24next Day of Arafah.
1:09:25>> Yeah.
1:09:26>> The Day of Arafah comes, and he spends
1:09:27the whole day from dawn till sunset
1:09:29making the same prayer, just one
1:09:30request.
1:09:31>> What happened the next day? The
1:09:32opposite of what he wanted.
1:09:34>> He got fired from his job, or he had
1:09:35that interview, or he wanted to marry
1:09:37someone.
1:09:38>> Like, he proposed to her, was rejected,
1:09:40and all that, so he experiences...
1:09:42>> He starts thinking, "That's it, the God
1:09:44I was praying to doesn't exist."
1:09:46>> Yeah.
1:09:46>> The question is, was what drove you
1:09:48here objective? No.
1:09:50>> It was the anger, the pain, and the
1:09:52breakdown you feel that drove this.
1:09:56This is a reaction; I just want to vent
1:09:58all of this.
1:09:59>> Exactly.
1:10:00>> Hmm.
1:10:00>> So, I lash out, get angry, act out, and
1:10:03do all these things. Then, a person
1:10:06might calm down and realize it was a
1:10:08mistake, but then the devil comes in
1:10:10and takes hold, saying, "You've already
1:10:12come this far, you've taken the first
1:10:14step, so come on."
1:10:17>> He drags him down, deeper and deeper,
1:10:19and so on.
1:10:22>> Ultimately, a person might face
1:10:23injustice, social injustice, or various
1:10:26kinds, or specific pains, and that
1:10:28becomes the driving force for the
1:10:29individual.
1:10:31>> Hmm, I see.
1:10:35>> And here, a person faces a huge
1:10:37challenge when under intense pressure
1:10:39or extreme pain in a difficult
1:10:40situation: to be honest with themselves
1:10:42so it doesn't destroy them.
1:10:47>> Hmm.
1:10:47>> And part of that destruction is ruining
1:10:49their relationship with God Almighty.
1:10:51>> Because the reality is that this will
1:10:52only increase your hardship; it’s a
1:10:54form of ruin.
1:10:55>> If you give in and enter that cycle,
1:10:56you will only be destroyed further and
1:10:58further. This is not what will bring
1:10:59you comfort. It’s not what will lift
1:11:01the pain from you. It’s not what will
1:11:03make you feel less hurt. You vented
1:11:05some anger, but later it will hit you
1:11:07back even harder. So here, a person has
1:11:10a huge challenge to be self-aware. That
1:11:12my own psyche is playing with me. That
1:11:14the anger, pain, frustration, and
1:11:16despair I’m living through are moving
1:11:17me right now. Therefore, I need to
1:11:19distinguish. I need to calm down. And I
1:11:21need to deal with this properly.
1:11:22>> Hmm.
1:11:24>> Before anxiety swallows me, this
1:11:25internal struggle that will destroy and
1:11:27shatter me in this life and the next, I
1:11:30must calm down, deal with it, and not
1:11:32chase distractions.
1:11:33>> Hmm.
1:11:34>> Don't let my mind send me off to
1:11:35philosophical aspects and look in that
1:11:37direction; don't kid yourself. You know
1:11:39that's not the point, and that's not
1:11:41what's really driving you.
1:11:42>> Don't be distracted.
1:11:43>> Focus on your actual movement, focus on
1:11:45your real pain, treat it, and work on
1:11:48it so that, you know...
1:11:49>> Hmm, I understand. I remember...A
1:11:54follower, when he lost his son, went to
1:11:56Abu Huraira.
1:11:58>> Are you familiar with this incident? He
1:12:01went to Abu Huraira.
1:12:02>> He said to him, "Tell me something from
1:12:04the Prophet, peace be upon him, that
1:12:06will help me bear this calamity."
1:12:09>> He felt such intense pain. But he
1:12:11understood that he needed to deal with
1:12:13it. So, what is there in the words of
1:12:14the Prophet, peace be upon him,
1:12:16regarding the virtue or the reward of
1:12:17this, or that? Whatever happened to him
1:12:19or what it means. The text is that he
1:12:21says to Abu Huraira, "Tell me something
1:12:23from the Hadith of the Prophet, peace
1:12:25be upon him." Something related to my
1:12:27situation, so I can know how to handle
1:12:28it.
1:12:29>> There are many parallels to this, but
1:12:31keep in mind that he was the one in
1:12:33control of his pain.
1:12:35>> Yes.
1:12:37>> The fact that I have the composure, in
1:12:39the middle of all this, to go and ask
1:12:41for something to help me endure...
1:12:44>> That in itself is very good.
1:12:45>> Yes.
1:12:46>> But there are some people, if you come
1:12:47and talk to them about the Prophet,
1:12:48peace be upon him, you might actually
1:12:50cause a disaster.
1:12:51>> Yes.
1:12:51>> If you try to console them with
1:12:52something religious, they might reject
1:12:54the faith, so don't try to console them
1:12:55.
1:12:55>> I'm serious, honestly.
1:12:57>> I mean, in the end, sometimes...
1:12:58>> Like someone who is fighting and
1:13:00cursing the religion, so you tell him
1:13:02not to curse the religion, and he...
1:13:04>> No, he won't curse you, it might be
1:13:06something more intense. Yes, he is at a
1:13:08stage where he might be ready for that.
1:13:10>> You mean like that?
1:13:10>> Yes, exactly. You need to have some
1:13:14level of "Fiqh"(understanding), the
1:13:16Fiqh of admonition and the Fiqh of
1:13:17reflection. If you find someone who is
1:13:21out of control...
1:13:24>> Don't just assume—you need to have a
1:13:26bit of a sense—that if you console
1:13:28them with something religious, they
1:13:29might...
1:13:32>> Explode against the religion because of
1:13:34their current state, so you know...So,
1:13:36that's it.
1:13:37>> In the end, it's not in your hands. You
1:13:39might say something to someone, and you
1:13:41can't imagine what their reaction will
1:13:42be. They might want the Prophet, peace
1:13:44be upon him. There was a woman among
1:13:45the companions. She lost her son. The
1:13:47Prophet, peace be upon him, told her to
1:13:48"Fear God." She said, "Leave me alone,
1:13:50for you have not been afflicted with my
1:13:51calamity."
1:13:51>> Yes, glory be to God.
1:13:52>> When she came to apologize later, the
1:13:53Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "
1:13:54Patience is at the first stroke of
1:13:55calamity."
1:13:56>> Yes.
1:13:56>> Right.
1:13:57>> So, you mean that it's not...Not
1:13:58everything will be effective for
1:14:00everyone. You must consider that.
1:14:02Therefore, try to think about what
1:14:03suits that specific person. The Prophet
1:14:05, peace be upon him, went to visit a
1:14:07sick Bedouin. He had a fever. He went
1:14:09to visit him and said, "No harm, it is
1:14:10a purification, God willing." He said,
1:14:12"You said purification? Purification,
1:14:15indeed!""No, it's not a purification at
1:14:17all." It's more like she's agitated
1:14:18with an old sheikh visiting the graves.
1:14:20>> Yeah.
1:14:21>> He wouldn't listen to a kind word, the
1:14:23word that would comfort him, he
1:14:24wouldn't hear it.
1:14:25>> The Prophet said yes, so that's it,
1:14:27it's fine.
1:14:29>> Fine.
1:14:30>> I mean, you might say things that
1:14:32aren't intended to be harsh, and the
1:14:34person might react a certain way, but
1:14:35they also have a duty to manage their
1:14:37emotions and accept those words.
1:14:40>> That’s very well said. Now, as we
1:14:43talk about someone who might start
1:14:44stirring up doubts within themselves
1:14:46and deviating intellectually. I want to
1:14:50talk about someone who doesn't have a
1:14:52reaction to psychological pain or
1:14:53anything. But they might have been
1:14:56afflicted by this obsession. Which is
1:14:59the obsession, the thing where they
1:15:01keep thinking.
1:15:01>> Yeah. Thinking, yeah, just sitting
1:15:03there. Let’s call it "intellectual
1:15:05obsession." Because I’ll call the
1:15:06other one "devotional obsession." I
1:15:07don’t know if these terms work, but
1:15:09okay. Seems clear enough. I mean the
1:15:12thoughts. As they keep thinking about
1:15:14things. About God, and about. Religion,
1:15:16and about. And about the Prophet, peace
1:15:18be upon him. And about the Quran, he
1:15:19keeps thinking. And then, he's entered
1:15:21the state of obsession. What is my role
1:15:24with him? And what should he do?
1:15:29Because someone might talk to me about
1:15:31this.
1:15:33>> I know we talked about this topic last
1:15:34time. But I want to talk to him now.
1:15:36What is my role with him? And what
1:15:38should he do? Those are the two exact
1:15:39questions. So I don't feel like we just
1:15:41talked without actually being helpful.
1:15:43One of my own questions is, is this the
1:15:45devil or is it his own self?
1:15:46>> Um.
1:15:47>> Because they are two different things.
1:15:49>> Well, let me just say this is similar
1:15:51to what we were discussing, but it has
1:15:53no relation to it.
1:15:54>> Right, I know, I made the transition
1:15:56from there.
1:15:57>> These are neither suspicions, nor
1:15:58problems, nor psychological pain that
1:16:00led a person to disbelief or doubt, no.
1:16:03>> Because this is something totally
1:16:04unrelated.
1:16:04>> This is something else entirely, it’s
1:16:06just, you know, thoughts that became.
1:16:08>> It's similar to it.
1:16:09>> Yes, exactly, that's why I moved from
1:16:10one to the other.
1:16:11>> Okay, okay, I follow you.
1:16:13>> Exactly, I just wanted to confirm.
1:16:15>> Of course, this is a disorder.
1:16:17>> A disorder.
1:16:18>> Meaning a disorder equals a disease,
1:16:20exactly.
1:16:22>> Meaning something pathological. It has
1:16:27nothing to do with it, it's just that
1:16:29someone has a problem in their brain,
1:16:31their brain is working wrong.
1:16:32>> Um.
1:16:33>> Just like other types—for instance,
1:16:35devotional obsession vs. this obsession
1:16:37—no, obsession is one thing.
1:16:39>> It appears in different forms, but
1:16:41it’s the same core, the same
1:16:43underlying issue, whether it's
1:16:44cleanliness obsession, or that
1:16:46obsession, or checking obsession.
1:16:48>> What is checking obsession?
1:16:49>> Checking is when, in the end, I keep
1:16:51saying, "I don't need to turn on the
1:16:53light," but I keep checking, for
1:16:54example, if the car door is locked
1:16:56seventeen times so far.
1:16:57>> Oh my goodness.
1:16:58>> Yes, exactly.
1:17:00>> Yeah.
1:17:00>> I went to check if I turned off the
1:17:02stove.
1:17:03>> Checking obsession and cleanliness
1:17:04obsession, I’m familiar with those.
1:17:06>> I want to tell you that checking is
1:17:07even more common than cleanliness; in
1:17:09some statistics, it’s number one.
1:17:10>> And devotional obsession is when they
1:17:11keep repeating the prayer, "No, I
1:17:13didn't pray correctly, I didn't pray
1:17:14well.""
1:17:14>> Devotional" is a very broad term,
1:17:16really. At its core, it’s the
1:17:18obsession with imperfection—like, "I
1:17:20didn't pray correctly,""I didn't do it
1:17:22right," or "I didn't...""I didn't
1:17:25perform ablution properly," and so on.
1:17:27I want to repeat it, keep repeating it
1:17:28to get it exactly......
1:17:29>> the right way. Yes, it could involve so
1:17:31many things.
1:17:32>> And in this case of OCD...
1:17:33>> Exactly.
1:17:34>> Even if he says, "It only happens to me
1:17:35during prayer specifically."
1:17:36>> Yes.
1:17:37>> Yeah, that's normal.
1:17:38>> Yes, even if it happens specifically
1:17:40during prayer. Actually, some of the
1:17:42Companions—though it doesn't
1:17:44necessarily mean it was OCD—
1:17:46>> OCD, which is Obsessive-Compulsive
1:17:48Disorder. Some of the Companions came
1:17:51and said, "We find in ourselves
1:17:52thoughts that are too terrible to speak
1:17:54of."
1:17:56>> It’s exactly what I’m saying.
1:17:57>> He means some really intense thoughts
1:17:59come up, usually involving blasphemy or
1:18:01things against Allah, which are very
1:18:03difficult to handle. They said, "We
1:18:04find in ourselves thoughts we find too
1:18:06massive to even utter." It's something
1:18:08awful we can't...
1:18:09>> You mean that doesn't necessarily mean
1:18:11it's OCD, because it doesn't have to
1:18:12happen often or repeat, but maybe a
1:18:14thought just popped in.
1:18:15>> He wasn't expecting it at all.
1:18:16>> Yes, of course. OCD is a huge topic. In
1:18:19my "Psychological Forty" series, there
1:18:20are three consecutive episodes about
1:18:22OCD.
1:18:22>> Wait, the series is called "The
1:18:24Psychological Forty"?
1:18:25>> Yes, "The Psychological Forty.""
1:18:26>> 40 Psychological," is it 40 lessons?
1:18:28>> No, not 40 lessons. There are...
1:18:30>> 40 topics. There is a book that
1:18:32compiles 40 Hadiths related to
1:18:34psychological health.
1:18:36>> Yes, I liked the book, its structure,
1:18:38and the compilation, so I created the "
1:18:40Psychological Forty" series.
1:18:41>> Wait, I already did that, no one
1:18:43noticed, no...
1:18:47>> Okay.
1:18:47>> It’s a commentary on the 40.
1:18:50>> 40 Hadiths, each addressing a topic
1:18:52from a specific angle. So, there was a
1:18:55Hadith related to obsessive whispers.
1:18:57>> So, I spoke about it, digressed a
1:18:58little, and did three episodes
1:19:00discussing obsessive-compulsive issues.
1:19:02>> Does that mean "The Psychological Forty
1:19:03" is a massive project?
1:19:05>> Yes, we are currently at 12 episodes
1:19:06and still on the sixth Hadith.
1:19:08>> So, the "Forty" will likely reach 80
1:19:10lessons?
1:19:11>> Maybe even more. No, no, I'll do a
1:19:14capsule for you in four or five lessons
1:19:17.
1:19:17>> Just covering many things, since we...
1:19:19>> No, I understand. I'm just saying that
1:19:21here...you know, of course.
1:19:23>> Our capacity is limited.
1:19:24>> Psychological darkness.
1:19:26>> Okay.
1:19:27>> The point is, since it's hard to cover
1:19:29everything, those three episodes...yes,
1:19:31in those three episodes.
1:19:34>> Uh.
1:19:36>> You were saying, let's get back to the
1:19:38point, that as we agreed earlier, most
1:19:40psychological disorders have a
1:19:42perfectly normal origin.
1:19:44>> Right.
1:19:45>> What does that mean?
1:19:46>> When we were talking about the book and
1:19:48anxiety, most disorders have a healthy,
1:19:50natural version. It’s not...
1:19:51>> Yes, like how a person might mention
1:19:53death and feel sad.
1:19:54>> Or how a person might worry about
1:19:55certain things—that's normal.
1:19:57>> You mean they might just have a thought
1:19:58about something?
1:19:58>> Exactly. A person is just human.
1:20:00Strange thoughts might pop into their
1:20:02mind; it’s possible. I might
1:20:03occasionally go back to check something
1:20:04multiple times. Because I was
1:20:06distracted and didn't register that I'd
1:20:07locked it. I might go back and check it
1:20:09twice; that’s perfectly normal. It
1:20:11can even involve strange thoughts. I
1:20:13mean, thoughts can come quite naturally
1:20:15. For instance, someone might have a
1:20:16very strange thought. While they're
1:20:18riding in the car. And a very weird
1:20:19idea pops into their head. Like, what
1:20:21would happen if I did exactly that? Or,
1:20:22what would happen if I opened the door
1:20:24right now?
1:20:24>> Yes, like those memes where someone
1:20:25stands there and thinks, "What if I
1:20:27jumped out of the window right now?"
1:20:28Yes, exactly, just wondering what would
1:20:29happen if I jumped. Right, right.
1:20:31>> It can happen incidentally; none of
1:20:33this is pathological. It’s all very
1:20:35normal and can happen to anyone if
1:20:36it’s just fleeting and occasional.
1:20:38>> So, you mean a companion of the Prophet
1:20:39experienced this? And he came and told
1:20:41the Prophet, peace be upon him. "This
1:20:42happens to me exactly." It's very
1:20:44normal. Right. In the end, it happened
1:20:46that he didn't have at that moment...
1:20:47Well, he is just a regular person. But
1:20:49he happened to have thoughts.
1:20:50>> Strange thoughts about the Lord of the
1:20:52Worlds, the Almighty. And the same idea
1:20:53applies as well. A person might be
1:20:55struck by strange sexual thoughts. I
1:20:56mean, that can happen, yes. That’s
1:20:59understandable. So, he had some very
1:21:04strange thoughts. Seemingly very
1:21:05difficult regarding matters of faith.
1:21:07The point is that some narrations of
1:21:08the Hadith mention this. It’s not
1:21:10authentic. But some versions say this
1:21:11happened to him during prayer.
1:21:12>> Yes.
1:21:13>> Also.
1:21:13>> Okay, fair enough.
1:21:14>> Yes, during prayer, okay.
1:21:16>> So the Prophet, peace be upon him, said
1:21:18, "Did you really find it? That is
1:21:20clear faith." Meaning, it’s normal;
1:21:23this is what faith is.
1:21:24>> Yes.
1:21:25>> Okay, very normal. But why? What is the
1:21:28idea behind "that is faith"? Why would
1:21:31this strange thing be considered faith?
1:21:34>> No, even the Prophet, peace be upon him
1:21:36, didn't say, "Don't worry, it doesn't
1:21:37negate faith." Instead, he said, "That
1:21:40is faith."
1:21:40>> Clear faith.
1:21:41>> Oh, I see.
1:21:42>> Why, then?
1:21:44>> Of course, the primary purpose is
1:21:46reassurance.
1:21:47>> Yes.
1:21:47>> Reassuring that fearful companion. Yes.
1:21:53>> But, as some scholars have said—and
1:21:55this applies to cases of
1:21:56Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, which is
1:21:58why I'm saying this—it’s as if the
1:22:00Prophet, peace be upon him, meant that
1:22:02when Satan despairs of changing a
1:22:04person’s true faith, he tries to
1:22:05bother them with these things.
1:22:10>> Just to annoy them.
1:22:11>> Right, and to disturb them. Why?
1:22:13Because their faith is important to
1:22:15them.
1:22:15>> And because their faith is strong. So,
1:22:17if I were an unbeliever to begin with.
1:22:19And I didn't care about God. And
1:22:21thoughts came into my head, bad
1:22:22whispers about the Lord of the Worlds,
1:22:24the Almighty. It wouldn't matter to me
1:22:26at all. Like the saying goes, Satan is
1:22:28deliberately trying to make you
1:22:29miserable with these thoughts. He knows
1:22:32that changing your faith is difficult.
1:22:34So, the most he can do is make you
1:22:36miserable about your faith.
1:22:37>> Oh, I understand now.
1:22:39>> This brings me back a little to OCD. In
1:22:41reality, a person who has OCD. If they
1:22:45have OCD regarding religious,
1:22:47devotional, or theological matters.
1:22:49>> This might be proof that these things
1:22:51are very, very important to him.
1:22:53>> Yeah.
1:22:54>> Because OCD doesn't happen with
1:22:55unimportant things.
1:22:56>> Generally, OCD only happens with
1:22:58important things.
1:22:59>> Exactly, because OCD is based on the
1:23:01idea of...
1:23:02>> Oh, okay.
1:23:03>> If the thing isn't important to you, it
1:23:04won't bother you.
1:23:05>> Exactly. I mean, ultimately, if
1:23:07something like cleanliness isn't
1:23:08important to you......
1:23:09>> you won't focus on it, it won't stress
1:23:11you out, and it won't...
1:23:12>> In the end, when it keeps bothering you
1:23:13by saying your hands aren't clean, no
1:23:15matter how clean they are, it doesn't
1:23:16matter to me; cleanliness isn't a big
1:23:18deal to me.
1:23:18>> But if cleanliness is a huge deal to
1:23:20you, then yes, it will stress you out
1:23:22with it. OCD is like a person......
1:23:24>> blackmailing you with something you are
1:23:26sensitive about.
1:23:27>> So they pressure you with it so you do
1:23:28something in return.
1:23:29>> Yes, exactly.
1:23:30>> Which is, for instance, the compulsive
1:23:32actions a person does.
1:23:33>> Mm.
1:23:34>> So, honestly, if faith isn't important
1:23:36to you, that’s it. That’s why, for
1:23:38people with OCD regarding prayer,
1:23:40it’s very easy to control for most
1:23:42people in supererogatory prayers. The
1:23:44problem is where?
1:23:45>> In the obligatory prayers.
1:23:46>> Why?
1:23:47>> Not important.
1:23:48>> Because the obligatory prayer is more
1:23:49important.
1:23:50>> Exactly, because the obligatory prayer
1:23:51is more important.
1:23:52>> Because if supererogatory prayers are
1:23:53invalid, it’s no problem, that’s
1:23:55fine. But if they feel the obligatory
1:23:56prayers are invalid, that’s a problem
1:23:58.
1:23:58>> Exactly. So, OCD works on areas that
1:24:01are very important to a person.
1:24:02>> Very good, very good.
1:24:04>> So, the fact that I get intrusive
1:24:06thoughts about creed, does that mean...
1:24:07could it be...
1:24:08>> Exactly, it could be a testament that
1:24:10this person values their creed very,
1:24:12very much.
1:24:12>> Well, look at this answer.
1:24:14>> Yes.
1:24:14>> Yeah, so if someone comes to me who
1:24:16seems clearly abnormal and has specific
1:24:18obsessions, I know they aren't normal
1:24:20because a normal person might get a
1:24:22fleeting thought once, but it’s not
1:24:24normal for them to be stuck on a habit,
1:24:25an act of worship, or something like
1:24:27that. If that appears, go see a doctor,
1:24:29peace out.
1:24:30>> Exactly.
1:24:31>> That's it.
1:24:31>> Exactly, go see a doctor, peace out.
1:24:34>> That's all, because you might...
1:24:35>> Tell me, what do I do?
1:24:37>> If I told you what I do, you’d be
1:24:39very upset with me.
1:24:40>> Because, I mean, you might go right or
1:24:42you might go left, and in both cases,
1:24:44it could be harmful to that person.
1:24:47>> Yeah, yeah, okay.
1:24:48>> I mean, the advice...
1:24:49>> May God forgive us for what we used to
1:24:51do. I mean, I used to imagine that when
1:24:53the Prophet (peace be upon him) told
1:24:55them to recognize pure faith, there are
1:24:57sayings that say, "Say 'I believe in
1:24:58God,' then stop," right?
1:25:00>> Stop, what?
1:25:01>> So, if it came to me in a fleeting way,
1:25:03I actually do that. I’d say, "Man,
1:25:05don’t think about this and move on."
1:25:07So I used to imagine that the person,
1:25:08meaning, you just tell them, "It’s
1:25:10the devil, you must stop," and...
1:25:12>> It is, of course, the idea that they
1:25:14must stop; that is indeed what is
1:25:15required. This is what a therapist
1:25:17helps them with if they are working on
1:25:18therapy, but it’s not that simple.
1:25:20>> It’s not that simple. That’s the
1:25:22idea. When you tell them "stop," they
1:25:23won't just "stop." I have to help them
1:25:25understand how to stop, okay?
1:25:26>> And as we said in the first episode,
1:25:28the matter of "I believe in God"
1:25:29differs for someone who has OCD. We
1:25:30will see that in the second episode,
1:25:32God willing.
1:25:32>> Well, I also want to mention the idea
1:25:34that it’s the devil; no, it doesn’t
1:25:36have to be. Maybe the devil has an
1:25:37opening, he might be exploiting this,
1:25:39okay, but it doesn't necessarily have
1:25:41to be the devil, it's a very normal
1:25:43disorder.
1:25:43>> This disorder can happen to me suddenly
1:25:45. Meaning I don't have to be born with
1:25:46it. It happens to me suddenly. And it
1:25:48can...reach. I mean at a certain stage
1:25:50in my life. That is the norm. That is
1:25:52the norm. I mean, the norm we have.
1:25:54Personality disorders. I mean, it’s
1:25:56part of the human personality
1:25:57development. There is a type of
1:25:58disorder called developmental disorders
1:25:59. I mean, in the end, these are
1:26:01disorders. A person is born with them.
1:26:03Like ADHD, for example.
1:26:05>> Yeah.
1:26:05>> So, however.
1:26:07>> Let’s get into the next modern-day
1:26:09illness. No, it's not a modern-day
1:26:11illness at all. Well, there are other
1:26:13disorders. Disorders that come on as
1:26:15symptoms. A person might not have them.
1:26:17And then they develop them. They might
1:26:18come in childhood. I mean, OCD can
1:26:20start in childhood, can start in youth.
1:26:22>> Yeah.
1:26:22>> It can, it can start in adulthood quite
1:26:24normally, but most psychological
1:26:26disorders are not present and then they
1:26:28come to a person.
1:26:30>> So a person can be very normal, not
1:26:32have OCD, but might have something you
1:26:34feel is related to the topic, as you
1:26:36said in the second episode, there are
1:26:38things we call sub-clinical, and we can
1:26:39call them pre-clinical, meaning if it's
1:26:41a state that hasn't reached the point
1:26:43of being a disease, but it's moving in
1:26:45the direction of being...
1:26:48>> Pathological. And there are things we
1:26:51might describe as risk factors for OCD.
1:26:54Therefore, no, the way. This way, for
1:26:57example, in this pattern. This trait is
1:26:59a risk for what? Risk factor. Anyway,
1:27:01let me reiterate. That a person might
1:27:04not have it at all, and might be
1:27:06exposed, for example, to a certain
1:27:08pressure, and OCD begins. OCD. It used
1:27:18to be classified as a type of anxiety;
1:27:20now it’s separated, but we have an
1:27:22umbrella called stress-related
1:27:23disorders. Exactly.
1:27:27>> Including OCD.
1:27:29>> That’s why someone's first onset of
1:27:31OCD might come.
1:27:33>> With a new stress they are exposed to.
1:27:36>> Meaning the matter might be below the
1:27:38threshold and they are able to control
1:27:40it, of course, unconsciously, but in
1:27:42the end, it’s controlled to a certain
1:27:44extent, but a certain pressure the
1:27:46person is exposed to makes their
1:27:47threshold jump and consequently the OCD
1:27:49begins to appear.
1:27:52>> Or it could even be a person who has
1:27:54OCD and recovers, and that's it, they
1:27:56reach a very good stage, but one of the
1:27:58things to warn about is that you should
1:28:00be careful because if you are put under
1:28:02certain severe pressure, OCD might
1:28:03start to appear again, and in that case
1:28:05, don't be afraid or worried, it's a
1:28:07phase and it will pass, God willing.
1:28:10>> Well, I have to talk about a very big
1:28:12topic in a very short time.
1:28:14>> Exactly, a very big topic, okay.
1:28:17>> I mean, let’s say, anything, I mean
1:28:19anything, I mean, you know what I mean,
1:28:21let’s say something.
1:28:25>> One of the things I see most people
1:28:27struggle with in general, and it shows
1:28:29up a lot when I'm on the path to God,
1:28:31is...Perfectionism. Seeking perfection.
1:28:37>> Yeah.
1:28:38>> Striving for perfection. There is
1:28:40always a concept, a picture I've drawn
1:28:42for myself. This picture is of someone
1:28:45who has a beard, a nice, long beard.
1:28:48And someone who spends an hour a week
1:28:49in night prayers. And performs five
1:28:51prayers at the mosque, and has great
1:28:52morals. I mean, there's a complete
1:28:54image of the model I must be. And a
1:28:57person is always striving for that, and
1:28:59...And here’s the problem: they don't
1:29:01reach it, and they keep living in a
1:29:02spiral. I want to strive for it, but I
1:29:05don't know how to, so I...I truly know
1:29:07the topic is quite heavy. But I'd like
1:29:11for us to at least go over it, like...
1:29:16What should I do if I have this problem
1:29:18? And I feel like I have this problem.
1:29:22I am always looking to see the bad in
1:29:23what I do. Thinking that this prayer
1:29:27was missing this, that, and that. If
1:29:28they had been done, it would have been
1:29:30this way. I always have this idea that
1:29:32I want to reach that perfection, that
1:29:34100%. And I feel like I am actually
1:29:38worshiping perfection, so...
1:29:40>> That's a heavy statement.
1:29:41>> What?
1:29:41>> A heavy statement.
1:29:42>> A statement that won't do, really.
1:29:44>> No, no, watch your language so you
1:29:46don't cause us problems. Consider what
1:29:49you're saying, don't end up a
1:29:50polytheist like that, but okay, for
1:29:52someone who has perfectionism.
1:29:54>> Fine, I said I'm talking about myself,
1:29:56I'm not talking about someone else.
1:29:58>> Yeah.
1:29:59>> I'm talking about...and then, I might
1:30:01be performing acts of worship in a
1:30:03certain way, and I was at a stage in my
1:30:05life where I was living a very sad life
1:30:07, not because I wasn't doing them, but
1:30:08because I wasn't doing the acts of
1:30:10worship in the perfect way, just as you
1:30:12said. That he might actually be...It
1:30:14seems that this person, by the way, is
1:30:16actually very good. And this person, if
1:30:18he died in this state...God would be
1:30:19pleased with him. He is the one who
1:30:21isn't pleased.
1:30:22>> I understand.
1:30:22>> Do you see what I mean?
1:30:23>> Exactly.
1:30:24>> So that’s why he says, "I feel like
1:30:26I'm worshiping something else." What do
1:30:28you advise me? This brings us back to
1:30:30the point we discussed: that someone
1:30:32might enter religion with misguided
1:30:34notions, which makes him see himself
1:30:36this way.
1:30:36>> Including the idea that everything must
1:30:38be perfect. I am used to getting the
1:30:40final grade. And coming in first in any
1:30:41school. I mean, in the end, I want to
1:30:43enter and come in first in...Religion,
1:30:44like entering and trying to come in
1:30:46first. Here, I must get it. I must be
1:30:47perfect in this area. And it's the same
1:30:49idea. Some notions, some sermons that a
1:30:51person might receive in the wrong way.
1:30:53They understand from it that this is a
1:30:55must. Meaning that anything less is not
1:30:57accepted from you. Meaning it won't be
1:30:59accepted.
1:30:59>> Anything less than that.
1:31:01>> We return again to say that a human is
1:31:03required to practice self-governance. I
1:31:07need to look and study whether this
1:31:09thing will lead me there or not.
1:31:11Exactly. Meaning the thing might bring
1:31:14about the opposite of the intended goal
1:31:16; it's possible. I might do something
1:31:18to reach a certain point. So the thing
1:31:20I'm doing to reach my goal is the very
1:31:22thing that ruins me. Possible.
1:31:23>> Possible, that's right.
1:31:25>> Exactly. There is a narration from the
1:31:27Prophet, peace be upon him. Regarding
1:31:29its authenticity...What does it mean?
1:31:35The Prophet, peace be upon him, says...
1:31:37He says: "The 'munbatt'(one who pushes
1:31:39too hard) will not traverse the land,
1:31:42nor will he spare his mount." Meaning,
1:31:45he gets stranded in the middle of the
1:31:47road. The Prophet, peace be upon him,
1:31:49is talking about how a person—and the
1:31:51correct meaning of "no one will be
1:31:52harsh" is...The authentic Hadith: "No
1:31:54one will be harsh...""...in religion
1:31:56without it overwhelming him." The
1:31:57intention of the Prophet, peace be upon
1:31:59him, is...He advises people to proceed
1:32:03in their religion in a...gentle manner.
1:32:05>> Hmm.
1:32:06>> Slowly. Why slowly? Because the "
1:32:09munbatt," the one who gets stranded in
1:32:11the middle of the road, is like someone
1:32:13riding a beast through the desert,
1:32:14pushing it too hard.
1:32:17>> Hmm.
1:32:18>> Some people think, "I want to achieve
1:32:20things, I want to get ahead."
1:32:22>> So they keep pushing, pushing, pushing
1:32:24without any rest at all. What happens?
1:32:26It dies.
1:32:27>> Hmm.
1:32:29>> The beast died, the horse died, and he
1:32:31didn't reach the destination. He
1:32:35neither traversed the land, nor did he
1:32:37spare his mount.
1:32:40>> The point is that I might want to reach
1:32:42a noble and good goal, but with a
1:32:43certain kind of zeal that doesn't match
1:32:45reality, and it brings the opposite of
1:32:47the intended result. Does the Sharia
1:32:50warn us about this? It warns us very,
1:32:54very strongly against monasticism.
1:32:56>> Hmm.
1:32:57>> Or that this monasticism ruined them,
1:32:59ruined the Christians.
1:33:01>> The Prophet, peace be upon him, says: "
1:33:02No one will be harsh in religion
1:33:04without it overwhelming him."
1:33:06>> And part of this is trying to force
1:33:08religion by sheer will.
1:33:09>> Yeah.
1:33:10>> It's not by sheer will. If you try to
1:33:13force it, you will be overwhelmed. Also
1:33:18, among the things related to this is
1:33:20that the Prophet, peace be upon him,
1:33:22says: "The most beloved deeds are those
1:33:24that are consistent, even if they are
1:33:26few."
1:33:28>> Hmm.
1:33:30>> This is an indication that sometimes,
1:33:32consistency might conflict with......
1:33:34>> the quantity.
1:33:35>> With the excessive amount.
1:33:36>> Therefore, no. If this conflict occurs,
1:33:39it's possible. It's possible. And if it
1:33:41happens, you need to focus more on
1:33:43consistency. Well, we also find that in
1:33:46certain situations, the Prophet, peace
1:33:48be upon him, gets angry and disapproves
1:33:51. These are situations of excess.
1:33:53>> Yeah.
1:33:54>> Perfectionism.
1:33:55>> Exactly.
1:33:56>> When three men came and asked about the
1:33:58Prophet's worship and his daily life.
1:34:00>> It was as if they felt it was too
1:34:02little, thinking, "No, that's not it, I
1:34:04want to be perfect," but they didn't
1:34:06realize he already was—may peace and
1:34:08blessings be upon him.
1:34:09>> Yes, yes.
1:34:10>> So they interpreted it for themselves,
1:34:12thinking, "He doesn't need to do more
1:34:13than that, but we are in need, we are
1:34:15poor," so they wanted more and more, to
1:34:17be more and more perfect. One said, "As
1:34:18for me, I will pray all night and never
1:34:20sleep," another said, "I will fast and
1:34:22never break it," and another said, "I
1:34:24will not marry women."
1:34:25>> So the Prophet, peace be upon him,
1:34:27spoke out.
1:34:27>> Yes.
1:34:28>> He stood up and addressed the people,
1:34:29gathered them, and said, "What is wrong
1:34:31with some people who say such and such?
1:34:32""
1:34:33>> As for me, I do such and such. Whoever
1:34:35turns away from my Sunnah is not of me.
1:34:37"
1:34:38>> So, what is the thing that conflicts
1:34:39with the nature of the self? I mean,
1:34:43the Prophet (peace be upon him) would
1:34:45sometimes intervene to stop certain
1:34:47perfectionism.
1:34:48>> Yeah.
1:34:49>> For example, Abdullah ibn Amr ibn
1:34:52al-Aas.
1:34:52>> Hmm.
1:34:53>> He heard from the Prophet (peace be
1:34:54upon him) that he used to......
1:34:56>> stand in prayer all night reciting the
1:34:57whole Quran and fast every single day.
1:34:59>> So the Prophet (peace be upon him) took
1:35:01the initiative and went to him, asking,
1:35:03"How much do you fast? How much do you
1:35:05fast?" He replied, "I fast every day."
1:35:06And what did the Prophet (peace be upon
1:35:07him) tell him? "Fast three days.""Six
1:35:09days of every month." I mean, he
1:35:10started him from the bottom.
1:35:11>> Hmm.
1:35:12>> He didn't just step down gradually from
1:35:13the top; he started him from the very
1:35:15bottom, three days a month, and he said
1:35:16, "O Messenger of Allah, I can handle
1:35:17more, let me enjoy my youth."
1:35:19>> So the Prophet (peace be upon him) said
1:35:20, "Then fast on Mondays and Thursdays."
1:35:22>> Yes. "
1:35:22>> O Messenger of Allah, I can handle more
1:35:24than that," so the Prophet (peace be
1:35:25upon him) said, "No, do not exceed that
1:35:26, that is your limit."
1:35:27>> You also know the Hadith of Abu Darda
1:35:29with Salman al-Farisi. When he came to
1:35:30visit, he forced him to break his fast.
1:35:32And he forced him to sleep. He didn't
1:35:34let him. But why is he doing that? Why
1:35:35is he doing that? Does the Prophet (
1:35:37peace be upon him) not want what is
1:35:38best for Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-Aas?
1:35:39>> No.
1:35:40>> Is it, for instance, that the Prophet
1:35:41doesn't want him to reach high levels
1:35:42in Paradise?
1:35:43>> Actually, the Prophet (peace be upon
1:35:45him) said to him, "O Abdullah, do not
1:35:47be like so-and-so."
1:35:48>> Yes, exactly.
1:35:49>> He used to stand in prayer at night and
1:35:51then stopped, so when he balanced
1:35:53things, he told him that standing in
1:35:54prayer is very important.
1:35:56>> Look, and that is why I say, there was
1:35:58also a lesson called "Ramadan
1:36:00Jurisprudence."
1:36:01>> Yes.
1:36:02>> It is available on the YouTube channel
1:36:03called "Ramadan Jurisprudence: 16 Rules
1:36:05for Managing the Self During Seasons of
1:36:07Worship."
1:36:07>> Yes, yes.
1:36:08>> Yes, that's heavy stuff.
1:36:10>> No, I will listen to it, but just tell
1:36:13me, "Go on, live your life." 16 rules
1:36:18for managing the self in seasons of
1:36:20worship, but they naturally apply to
1:36:22everything; the first rule was: "
1:36:23>> What is suitable for someone else may
1:36:25not be suitable for you."
1:36:26>> Yes.
1:36:26>> Ultimately, there is a type of address
1:36:28that might be directed at one person
1:36:29but not another. I might use a harsh
1:36:31tone with someone.
1:36:32>> And then I come to you and say, "No,
1:36:34you're doing great just like this."
1:36:35>> Don't worry about it.
1:36:36>> Do I hate you? No, I am telling you
1:36:38that this is your specific treatment;
1:36:40stay as you are, don't do more than
1:36:42this. Seriously, trust me, this is
1:36:44what's best for you.
1:36:45>> Exactly, and that is why for some of
1:36:47the Companions, the Prophet would
1:36:48appoint so-and-so to certain roles,
1:36:50meaning he would give them
1:36:51responsibilities or put them in charge
1:36:53of a specific task.
1:36:54>> So one of the Companions came and said,
1:36:56"O Messenger of Allah, I want to," and
1:36:58the Prophet said to him, "You are a
1:37:00weak man."
1:37:01>> Hmm.
1:37:01>> Exactly, so this is...why? "You are a
1:37:05...man."
1:37:07>> The Prophet (peace be upon him) was
1:37:09doing this out of his kindness.
1:37:10>> To that man.
1:37:11>> It does not harm him, may Allah be
1:37:13pleased with him, that he isn't
1:37:14suitable for it; that would be a source
1:37:16of shame and regret.
1:37:17>> Hmm.
1:37:17>> If a person does not fulfill its right,
1:37:19yet you are a weak man in this area,
1:37:20even though the Prophet, peace be upon
1:37:22him, described this man, Abu Dharr, as
1:37:23the most truthful in speech.
1:37:24>> Under the heavens or above the earth,
1:37:26there is no man more truthful than Abu
1:37:27Dharr, may Allah be pleased with him.
1:37:29He is very strong, but in a specific
1:37:31context, yet weak here.
1:37:32>> So the Prophet, peace be upon him,
1:37:33believed it was better for him not to
1:37:35burden him beyond his capacity in a
1:37:37specific aspect.
1:37:37>> Mm.
1:37:38>> The point, excuse me, is also related
1:37:40to the Hadith: "Be upright and you will
1:37:42not encompass all."
1:37:43>> Does "you will not encompass all" also
1:37:45fall under this meaning?
1:37:46>> In what sense?
1:37:47>> In the sense that you must understand
1:37:49that you cannot do everything, nor is
1:37:51it necessary.
1:37:52>> Yes, that is the first rule; what suits
1:37:54others may not suit you, and the second
1:37:56rule is that what suits you at times
1:37:58may not suit you at other times.
1:38:01>> Ah.
1:38:01>> Exactly, sometimes you need to be told,
1:38:03"So-and-so, do not be like so-and-so,"
1:38:05and at other times you need to be
1:38:07forced to continue the act of worship
1:38:09you are doing.
1:38:09>> That you are performing.
1:38:11>> Ah.
1:38:11>> Sometimes you need to be told one thing
1:38:13, and other times you need to be told
1:38:14the opposite, or I address myself with
1:38:16the opposite at times.
1:38:16>> Okay.
1:38:17>> The idea is that, because of this, the
1:38:19notion that there is only one way—no,
1:38:21there is no such thing as one way that
1:38:23I follow. A person fluctuates according
1:38:25to their psychological state. You want
1:38:27to be perfect, you want to climb and
1:38:28climb; no, you sometimes intentionally
1:38:30slow down.
1:38:31>> Oh, so...
1:38:33>> And you regress intentionally.
1:38:35>> So what is the thing, if I may ask?
1:38:37>> Let us go back so we are clear. Yes,
1:38:40the first step in treating this is to
1:38:41realize that it might be harmful to my
1:38:43religion. Why am I doing this?
1:38:46>> I am doing this for the sake of Allah,
1:38:47the Almighty.
1:38:48>> I am doing this for my religion and my
1:38:49afterlife; this could be harmful to
1:38:51your afterlife.
1:38:52>> Okay.
1:38:52>> How, as I have explained?
1:38:54>> Is it essentially, is it possible that
1:38:56it is just an illusion?
1:38:58>> Are you leading me to the answer?
1:39:00>> No, honestly, I am asking, because I
1:39:01intend to ask the question again.
1:39:03>> No, I mean...
1:39:04>> Yes, it is simply an illusion. Why?
1:39:06Because in the end, no human is...
1:39:10>> That is what I want to know; what is in
1:39:12my nature or my psyche that makes it an
1:39:14illusion?
1:39:17>> What is the meaning of "perfect"? What
1:39:19is this "perfect"? A perfect person is
1:39:20one who never falters.
1:39:21>> Ah.
1:39:22>> Is it an illusion or not?
1:39:23>> An illusion.
1:39:23>> An illusion, good. A perfect person is
1:39:25one who performs all acts of worship
1:39:27and is ideal in every act of worship.
1:39:28>> That is an illusion.
1:39:29>> An illusion, right? Exactly, a person
1:39:31who never experiences a lapse.
1:39:32>> An illusion.
1:39:33>> An illusion. Okay, then perfectionism
1:39:34is an illusion.
1:39:35>> Ah, so sometimes complaints about
1:39:36religious apathy come from the desire
1:39:38for perfection in the first place?
1:39:39>> Exactly, you do not want to accept it
1:39:40at all.
1:39:41>> Exactly, because a period of lethargy
1:39:42is something natural.
1:39:43>> Okay, so...
1:39:44>> There is human weakness; it is narrated
1:39:45in the traditions—regardless of its
1:39:46authenticity—that "for every burst of
1:39:48enthusiasm, there is a period of
1:39:49lethargy."
1:39:49>> Ah.
1:39:50>> Every period of enthusiasm, of zeal,
1:39:51yes, is followed by a period of decline
1:39:53—a downward trend. Like the moon,
1:39:54there is a period of intensity and a
1:39:56period of waning. There is no heart but
1:39:57that it has a cloud, like the cloud
1:39:59over the moon; when the moon is bright,
1:40:01a cloud covers it and it darkens.
1:40:02>> The heart is like that.
1:40:03>> And the Prophet, peace be upon him,
1:40:04said, "Indeed, my heart is clouded,"
1:40:06meaning my heart is not always at the
1:40:07same...At the same level.
1:40:08>> So that is an illusion from that
1:40:10perspective.
1:40:10>> Yes, of course.
1:40:11>> Yes, the perspective that a person has
1:40:13many conflicts, so they can't do
1:40:15everything, and sometimes they have to
1:40:16drop one thing to do another, exactly.
1:40:18And there is something else I want to
1:40:19say since we are mentioning...
1:40:21>> I mean, we brought up the Companions
1:40:23and we talk about righteous people and
1:40:25all that. Look, even if you turn
1:40:26yourself inside out and perfect all the
1:40:28ideals within you, there is a part that
1:40:30is actually related to the environment,
1:40:32to the place you live in; you've
1:40:34reached your limit.
1:40:36>> Your limit is then constrained by the
1:40:37environment and the time you live in.
1:40:39>> Yeah.
1:40:40>> I mean, you won't be that person from
1:40:41back then while you are in this time.
1:40:43>> Yeah.
1:40:44>> Right.
1:40:45>> Yes, yes, exactly.
1:40:47>> So, therefore, even if you transform
1:40:49yourself internally...
1:40:50>> There are external factors that are
1:40:52beyond your control, that are variable.
1:40:54>> I just remembered something regarding
1:40:55the external factors. I might sometimes
1:40:57want to get up and pray Qiyam, for
1:40:59example. There was a time I was
1:41:00traveling with someone. I was sitting
1:41:02in a place, say, like where we are now.
1:41:04And there were, say, four people, and
1:41:05there was no place other than this. So
1:41:06I said to myself, "What am I going to
1:41:08do?" I mean, I want to pray. But I
1:41:10can't pray. There's no space, no room,
1:41:12no...so for several days I said, "I'll
1:41:14just get up and stay in my seat and use
1:41:16my prayer beads to do Dhikr." I was
1:41:18thinking about a specific image, that
1:41:20is, it's prayer time now. It is prayer
1:41:21time now. But even me, myself...If I am
1:41:24able and willing, I still don't know
1:41:26what to do. There are things that
1:41:27prevented me.
1:41:29>> And there is also a more comprehensive
1:41:31aspect, I mean...what do I mean by
1:41:33comprehensive? In the end, this is a
1:41:36small situation, a passing circumstance
1:41:38. No, there is something more holistic
1:41:40than this; it's a lot of things.
1:41:42>> The circumstances of reality, the
1:41:44country, and life. Yes, I mean, for you
1:41:46to perform worship to a certain degree,
1:41:47you need a measure of peace of mind.
1:41:49>> Yeah.
1:41:49>> Right, a measure of peace of heart.
1:41:51There is a level of peace of heart that
1:41:53you will not reach.
1:41:54>> Yes, right.
1:41:55>> Right, but you won't reach it.
1:41:57>> Why won't you reach it? Because of the
1:41:59state we live in. Some people, when we
1:42:01talk sometimes—I was just arguing
1:42:02with someone when we were discussing
1:42:04the impact of modernity, like how we
1:42:06are living through an explosion of
1:42:07psychological problems and disorders—
1:42:09some feel that it's an exaggeration.
1:42:11>> Yeah.
1:42:11>> What happened? No, a lot has happened,
1:42:13but you aren't paying attention.
1:42:15>> This mobile phone is new.
1:42:16>> Screens, in general, are new.
1:42:18>> The environment you live in today, the
1:42:20terrible amount of connectivity, and
1:42:22the fact that you keep hearing news and
1:42:24terrible inputs around you—this is
1:42:26new, it never existed before.
1:42:27>> This is new. This lighting is new, by
1:42:29the way. Our natural lighting is the
1:42:32sun, and then at night, the moon. Its
1:42:36way has a very big role in a person's
1:42:38well-being and a person's tranquility.
1:42:41Yes.
1:42:43>> Right, but your life is exposed to
1:42:45light—from the day, from the sun—an
1:42:47immense amount of light.
1:42:49>> I mean, when one used to hear about the
1:42:51nature of people's lives, the Salaf
1:42:53even, or those like them...He starts by
1:42:55getting up at Fajr, wakes up, might
1:42:56work for three or four hours, and then
1:42:58his day is his own and his life is in
1:43:00his spare time. And the living
1:43:01conditions, and even the social
1:43:03connections. And even the idea of
1:43:04problems. In the end, you...You go in
1:43:06and see fights coming your way. A war
1:43:07could have started and ended. I have no
1:43:09idea. A world war, a war that started
1:43:11and won.
1:43:13>> Exactly, I understand, but you're
1:43:15living in statements every single day
1:43:17anyway.
1:43:18>> Well, okay, let's disconnect from it,
1:43:19but you won't be able to do that either
1:43:21, and you'll be missing out on things.
1:43:23>> So you are chasing an illusion or a
1:43:25mirage that you won't reach, so is it
1:43:26better to give up?
1:43:28>> Again, this isn't a message of despair.
1:43:31I just want to express the idea that it
1:43:33is very beautiful to have a vision,
1:43:35even an ideal vision.
1:43:37>> You put it in front of you, not to
1:43:38reach it, but to get as close to it as
1:43:40I can.
1:43:41>> Like when I hear about the Companions.
1:43:42>> Exactly.
1:43:43>> Right.
1:43:44>> Exactly.
1:43:44>> And when I hear about the state, even
1:43:46the state of the Prophets.
1:43:47>> Do I?
1:43:48>> Do I even expect from myself that I
1:43:49will reach this state?
1:43:51>> No, of course not. Well, there is so
1:43:55much I won't reach in this state.
1:43:58>> So, is there no need for me to emulate
1:44:00them? No, you emulate them to get as
1:44:02close as possible.
1:44:03>> Yes, that's true.
1:44:04>> As much as you can.
1:44:05>> Yeah.
1:44:05>> And also, keep in mind that even when
1:44:07we look, for example. When we talk
1:44:08about emulating the Companions, the
1:44:09Prophets. There are things you won't be
1:44:11able to do. I mean, it's impossible for
1:44:13me to combine, for example, Sayyiduna
1:44:15Abu Bakr and Sayyiduna Omar. I mean, in
1:44:17terms of emulation, combining so-and-so
1:44:18. Combining Sayyiduna Khalid ibn
1:44:20al-Walid and Sayyiduna Abu Hurairah. I
1:44:21mean, in the end, to be that unique in
1:44:22knowledge, for example. Especially in
1:44:24Jihad. It just won't happen. I mean, if
1:44:26they couldn't even do it, okay.
1:44:28>> So in the end, I put a holistic, ideal
1:44:30image, and I try to get as close to it
1:44:32as I can, and I might approach it from
1:44:34this direction, and someone else
1:44:35approaches it from that direction, and
1:44:37another from this angle, and so on.
1:44:39>> Beautiful.
1:44:40>> It's a complex subject, it doesn't have
1:44:41...
1:44:42>> It's a great topic, it's a great topic.
1:44:44>> Okay.
1:44:44>> Well, I will suffice with this much.
1:44:46>> All right, fine.
1:44:48>> I have, I have some very important
1:44:50things to say in the next episode about
1:44:52social media and addiction, starting
1:44:54from screen addiction to so much more
1:44:56about it. I'm saying these few words so
1:45:00that maybe someone will continue until
1:45:02the end and get excited.
1:45:03>> And I'm linking you to another episode,
1:45:05almost forcing you into the next
1:45:07episode.
1:45:09>> Oh, exactly, so, ma sha Allah, I didn't
1:45:11feel the time pass, honestly, your
1:45:14world is very enjoyable.
1:45:16>> I really benefit, I mean there are
1:45:18people who feel that I...
1:45:19>> Ma sha Allah, you know how to embody
1:45:21people's personalities. And you know
1:45:23how to ask. Okay, that happens, for
1:45:24example, 30%of the time. The rest, I'm
1:45:27just asking. And benefiting and
1:45:28listening. And I don't understand...
1:45:30Important. But, I mean, it shows how
1:45:32much I'm enjoying it. May God reward
1:45:34you with goodness. May it be accepted.
1:45:35And hopefully, we will have another
1:45:37meeting soon. Glory be to You, O Allah,
1:45:38and with Your praise. I bear witness
1:45:39that there is no god but You. I seek
1:45:40Your forgiveness and repent to You.

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