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0:00kcj thank you again so much for joining
0:03us in raw terms what did your film the
0:06red pill about the film the red pill
0:10follows my year-long journey of learning
0:12about the highly controversial and
0:14polarizing men's rights movement and
0:17initially I intended on telling Memphis
0:21activists and hearing what they had to
0:22say that I believe could be possibly
0:26promoting violence against women or
0:28Hodja mystic sounding and drew out my
0:32year-long journey actually realized that
0:34they they had a lot of things you think
0:36points to make about the places men in
0:39our society today and and it turned out
0:42that my own feminist views were being
0:44challenged so I decided to include my
0:48own personal story as and from the
0:50filmmaker in the film learning about the
0:53men's rights movement Inconvenient Truth
0:54obviously a Elgort
0:56knew the message of his film but with
1:00this documentary the red pill it I don't
1:04know if I've ever seen a film structured
1:07like this where the filmmaker is
1:10basically uprooted and turns upside down
1:13about what flexibly what is it about
1:16your film that has upset feminists so oh
1:23well I think the fed are upset with the
1:27film has never seen the film and so I
1:30think why they're upset is what they're
1:32reading online all the misinformation
1:36about the film or the men's rights
1:37movement online and stops wider reacting
1:40so strongly to the film being made or
1:44being out in the world uh but we just
1:47had a screen last night as many
1:49feminists and men's rights activists and
1:51people in the middle were an audience
1:52and it everyone had positive reactions
1:56and responses to the film and came up to
1:58me afterwards saying that I said it was
2:01balanced fair and dependence I talked to
2:04you that everything in the film is what
2:08they would
2:09agreeing needs to be addressed as far as
2:11gender equality goes and in looking at
2:13the male side of that so all you've
2:15essentially done with this film cassie
2:17is done what a lot of documentary makers
2:21do which is to explore the site of an
2:24issue that doesn't usually get a lot of
2:26attention is that fair to say so
2:32basically you straight down the barrel
2:35very workmanlike
2:38pedestrian approach to an issue you want
2:41to explore something that wasn't really
2:43that known about you did go with an
2:46agenda but you also went in with an open
2:48mind which is arguably far more
2:50important that's fair to say
2:52yes that is fair to say you know I think
2:56my film is uh it's a very gentle and
3:01sensitive approach to this very heated
3:05and complex and controversial topic and
3:09you know if my film was about anything
3:12else that was less computing I may be of
3:13dufus but uh but with the red pill I
3:17allow em not to say what they have to
3:19say embrace and because the topic
3:23elicits such strong responses out of
3:25people that's where the backlash to the
3:30film is coming from is everyone
3:33I do believe everyone is entitled to
3:35their own perspectives on gender and and
3:38a lot of us have strong opinions about
3:40which gender is more disadvantaged and
3:43and so that's why this film has been so
3:49talked about and invaded and I know it
3:55really ruffled some feathers now another
3:58good documentary film is ever been
3:59subject to such scrutiny over its
4:02funding and the allegation has been
4:05because certain men rights activists
4:07have contributed to the film through the
4:09crowdfunding program that you
4:11consequently made a film to make them
4:14happy now could you please give us a
4:17potted history of the funding of the
4:19film and whether that charge has any
4:22merit
4:23thank you for letting me explain the
4:27funding because that has been a twisted
4:30and contorted in the media so much and I
4:33rarely get the opportunity to say how
4:35it's almost limit so this all took three
4:38and half years to make and all of
4:40production during filming of that first
4:42year was funded by myself
4:44my producer who's my mother and my
4:47cinematographer who was my boyfriend
4:49and we are three self-identifying
4:52feminists that funded the filming and
4:55and then I submitted to about 15 film
4:58grants and was declined from each and
5:00everyone never even made it to the
5:02second round
5:04so I knew that you know this topic was
5:07uh you know not something that people
5:10within the film industry thought should
5:11be safe I and so then I reached out to
5:15my previous angel investors from my
5:18health that looked at women's rights and
5:21gender LGBT rights so they all declined
5:27funding the film saying that they didn't
5:28want to give message activists of
5:30platforms speak but that was my whole
5:32world has been making films about
5:34women's rights and LGBT issues and so
5:37this so it's about two and a half weeks
5:40into production of the el ni--o Down
5:42Productions and I had adopted my faith
5:46things and all of my earth rings my
5:47mother's and my boyfriend the and it was
5:51at a point where I didn't see anyone
5:54stand in the tunnel
5:55being able to complete this film it's
5:57the amount of work that still has to be
5:58done
5:58the financial support first I wanted to
6:02keep creative control over the
6:04cellphones and I ended up being offered
6:06a large chunk of money from a feminist
6:10organization but it was clear that they
6:13would be involved in the editing process
6:15and third Sirhan would be you know in in
6:19the film and it wouldn't would no longer
6:21be my journey my experience as I see
6:24that it should be made and so I really
6:28was adamant to keep creative control and
6:30not give up ownership of himself to
6:32anyone outside of myself in my family
6:35so I thought okay what's the only way
6:39that you can receive funds weldment in
6:41credit control without putting just
6:44ahead on the side street and saying I
6:45need $100,000 to complete my film please
6:47fund it was so Kickstarter was the only
6:52way I could I could see complete install
6:54with the funds I need and and even
6:57within the Kickstarter rolled the
6:58regulation people who fund your products
7:02have are not entitled to any ownership
7:04over your product across the board for
7:07any kind of Kickstarter campaign even if
7:09this type gadget or something else so
7:12that is the part of this Kickstarter
7:13role and so we had a month-long
7:17Kickstarter campaign and the first two
7:20weeks we were it looked like a sinking
7:22ship we needed we asked for 97 thousand
7:27dollars were up to almost 20,000 halfway
7:30through the campaign and it didn't look
7:32like we would make it until an article
7:35came out in Breitbart and explaining our
7:40funding difficulties and I also had many
7:43people I hired for the film that that
7:47fell out of working with consult because
7:49of the topic and the subject matter they
7:51didn't want to be a part of it so this
7:53article explained all the different
7:55difficulties we have of making this film
7:57and that's when free speech supporters
8:03and anti censorship Crusaders just
8:06flooded sue our Kickstarter campaign and
8:08brought us them over our thresholds and
8:11even beyond our asking and the reason
8:14I'm able to know the type of people that
8:17under the Kickstarter campaign is
8:18because many of them commented or sent
8:21me messages through Kickstarter during
8:23the campaign saying I am neither
8:25feminist or mess write documents and
8:27never even heard of this rights movement
8:29but I don't like to see people censored
8:32and you know bullies bullied into being
8:36silenced if it's a topic that they don't
8:38agree with so we did have some eminent
8:43backers shorts Kickstarter and also some
8:46men's rights activist backers but in no
8:48way represent the majority and it
8:50doesn't even matter they did or didn't
8:53because Kickstarter backers have no say
8:55whatsoever over the film none of them
8:58thought the rough edit server involved
9:01with my year-long as finishing the film
9:04since the Kickstarter and so you know
9:08and they can all attest that they're
9:09about three thousand backers some of
9:12them wrote articles explaining why they
9:14back to campaign is if anyone want to
9:17Google there's a feminist that wrote a
9:18great article about why she backed the
9:20campaign saying that we need to have
9:22more discussions about what men's rights
9:25issues are and and I yeah it's just
9:29ridiculous to say that anyone bought me
9:31or influenced the way that I made this
9:33film because Kickstarter was the only
9:35way I could get the funding I needed and
9:37maintain creative control and it is the
9:39film a always intended to make and the
9:41kicker had no influence on how it all
9:43turned out I bet you you could make
9:45another documentary about the learning
9:47journey that you went on just through
9:50the funding of this film oh yeah I mean
9:54it's a documentary about making the
9:56documentary would be really fascinating
9:57and yeah I mean one of them I did
10:02contemplate if I should include the
10:04controversy following the Kickstarter
10:06and I definitely in the film that I did
10:08wonder should that be a part of the film
10:10you and the film had been subject to a
10:13prolonged smear campaign I want to know
10:17what that's like well it's very ironic
10:21because the film itself does talk about
10:24the silencing tactics when addressing
10:26men's issues and so I mean I included
10:31that in this film and I interviewed
10:33people talking about that back in
10:362013-2014 when I was interviewing that's
10:38effective and they talked about the
10:42attendance would pull fire alarms and
10:44cancel men's rights
10:45gatherings and they would protest hotels
10:48that they were going to get dinner and
10:50other issues and
10:52and so I heard these stories and I
10:55included those stories in the film but I
10:58didn't know how big that kind of
11:01response is if it was just some radical
11:04groups in Toronto or elsewhere that
11:06would campaign memory events but then
11:09sure enough right after my Kickstarter
11:11campaign protesters come out wanting to
11:14violently silence the film and now with
11:17the screenings happening around the
11:20world there are petitions at the end of
11:21film in certain countries without even
11:23seeing it so I you know we include that
11:27part in the film in it but I didn't
11:29realize that I would end up happening to
11:31me I just would never think to protest
11:34this film even if I disagreed with the
11:35topic because it just seen it first
11:37before you want to you know say that
11:40there shouldn't be around you quite
11:42famously have come out and said that as
11:44a result of making this film that you no
11:47longer call yourself a feminist is that
11:50true
11:52why because it seems to me so it seems
11:59that what you're doing is in fact you
12:03have actually crystallized and given you
12:06know rather eloquent voice to the core
12:10principle of feminism surely which is
12:12equality and what you've done is you've
12:16wanted to simply you know redress an
12:19imbalanced issue by putting balance in
12:21there it appears to me that your
12:23approach to this film is actually a very
12:26feminist approach and that you probably
12:28should stay a feminist and maybe teach
12:31some of your colleagues your fellow
12:33feminists what the actual meaning of
12:36feminism is please explain well I
12:41interviewed throughout my journey across
12:45the board but men don't have issues as a
12:48privileged one saved throughout history
12:49and pressed women and the idea
12:53patriarchy uh and I realized that you
12:58know what I was learning for memorize is
13:00that men do have a lot of issues and
13:03and I for many it's even long after I
13:06stopped filming I wanted to hold on to
13:08my feminist label it wasn't until fairly
13:11recently I dropped it but but I was
13:15wanting to figure out how to include
13:16men's issues within the feminists under
13:19the feminist umbrella and and then I
13:23realized that feminists do not want to
13:27address men to choose to admit that they
13:30have equal of the obstacles that need to
13:34be addressed in involved and I started
13:37learning that many feminist groups will
13:40actively oppose joint custody
13:42legislation and do not want to include
13:45male victims and rape laws and just over
13:50the overall dismissiveness and
13:52submitting of men's issues in a almost
13:56in a disgusted kind of dialogue like how
14:00could you say men have issues there's a
14:02privileged one that men throughout
14:03history have been oppressing women and I
14:07don't see that as a I don't see that
14:10kind of conversation as the road to
14:12gender equality when you when you are
14:14putting down men and laughing in their
14:18faces about suicide rates and workplace
14:21deaths and war doesn't and anytime I did
14:24bring up men's issues to feminists there
14:26was always a yes but we haven't worked
14:29kind of response so for instance wars
14:31that 99% in for awards in the past 100
14:36years 99 percent of deaths were met and
14:39in Vietnam over 17-thousand US soldiers
14:43were drafted that died so another 2,000
14:47over 17,000 men that did not want to go
14:49to war dies and at war and I would bring
14:52that up to feminists and the response
14:53would be but when they couldn't serve in
14:56combat so it's really sexist against
14:58women but and any issue I brought up it
15:02would always be a women that feminist
15:05women wanted to say that women had it
15:08worked they wanted you to agree that
15:09women have it worse and that women are
15:12the
15:12discriminated against gender and not men
15:14and and I don't see that as helping the
15:18gender equality dialog of course in
15:20silver women's rights I'm always going
15:21to be for women's rights and female
15:23empowerment and obviously I'm a career
15:25woman I have a NEET that I adored and my
15:28whole time I'm one of four sisters I'm
15:31my best friend as a mom there's a lot of
15:34transgender around me I but I you know I
15:38love being able to be a powerful woman
15:41and want to encourage my needs to grow
15:43up the powdered girl and do whatever she
15:46wants to so that's no question I'm
15:48always going to be for women's rights
15:50but feminism is is an ideology that
15:54believes that women have always been
15:55oppressed by men that men are the
15:57privileged gender and that we need to
15:59work on women's equality before we can
16:01discuss men but there's no real sign of
16:04ever of women achieving equality and a
16:08feminist perspective and and anytime
16:13there is something on the ballot or
16:16legislation to help with meant issues
16:18like insurance joint custody or rape
16:20laws radical feminists oppose it so I
16:23don't see that if the groups of movement
16:26for gender equality when when men are
16:28being stepped on in the process
16:30basically saying that the brand the
16:33feminist brand has been so dispersed by
16:36behaviors that you'd rather not call
16:40yourself a feminist even though what
16:42you're doing is actually honoring the
16:45essence of what feminism is supposed to
16:48be which is equality okay that's enough
16:53for irony time to see why I ended up
17:00dropping the label and you know I'm not
17:04in any way advocating for others to drop
17:07the label I just chose that for me I did
17:09that I did ask myself should I remain a
17:12feminist or keep calling myself a
17:14feminist to try to change it from within
17:16to try to read grant them as being the
17:18movement for gender equality and we can
17:21be open to listening trans issues and
17:22addressing those as well
17:25and there are some a feminists who have
17:27chosen to do that like Christina Hoff
17:28Sommers who's on YouTube the factual
17:31feminist and Camille Polya so there are
17:34feminists who understand men's issues
17:36and want to work within feminism to
17:38address those issues maybe they've gone
17:40clear campaigns against them from
17:43feminists for being too compassionate
17:45for men's issues
17:46so obviously feminism is you know if you
17:48want to look at the basic definition if
17:51you believe in women's rights you should
17:52be a feminist then that's one thing but
17:54I I do look at the tactics and the the
17:58language used by feminine and I don't
18:02want to be a part of that now how did
18:04you react we do know that Melbourne had
18:06pulled the screen into the film I was
18:09shocked
18:10uh because I first heard about the
18:12petition and I you know in my head I
18:15rolled my eyes thinking oh this is so
18:18silly a petition on change.org what
18:20really happens with those and it just
18:22has a couple and when I saw it a couple
18:25hundred signatures in that in no way
18:26you know represents the amount of people
18:28who want to see the self and I thought
18:31it wouldn't go anywhere and then just I
18:33don't know how many maybe a week later
18:35or a couple days after the petition was
18:37started the theater pulled the film and
18:41I I was absolutely flabbergasted because
18:46they didn't even ask me to see the film
18:50before making that decision and I would
18:52have gladly let them see a snigger own
18:55opinion on a fishing event and then it
18:58gives me an opportunity this is a great
18:59point very very clear let's make that
19:03point very clear that you were quite
19:06happy to actually have the protesters
19:10see the film shows a fair say the other
19:16fears that people wrote in the theater
19:17to see the film because they haven't
19:19seen it neither has the protesters but
19:22you were quite happy fought to make them
19:24available to them to see it to judge
19:27properly and they didn't take that up no
19:31and I
19:34one identity is to know why they didn't
19:36have to worry and when people do take a
19:38film they find it banning an Australian
19:42ridiculous because it we have many
19:45screening so far and made that I've
19:47attended and when they say here that
19:49there was a petition to ban the film
19:51that theatre cave they're shocked
19:54because the film doesn't warrant that
19:55kind of reaction see what it place are
19:57you getting a better idea for movies uh
20:03well I I don't three guys because I
20:11don't know why free speech is such a
20:14controversial issue it shouldn't be a
20:16question that you know I think people
20:19need to know about our newborn screening
20:21with books for two months prior and it
20:24was sold out so it's not like that
20:26position to ban the film was you know
20:29asking the theater to not you know
20:32screening a film that was up to them
20:34their choice and all that film was
20:36booked it was sold out it was a rental
20:39of the venue so paid for event and so
20:44that's why this this story is censorship
20:48it was it was there were people that
20:50wanted to see this film the theater
20:52agrees to it it was in motion for months
20:54and then some protesters who had never
20:57seen the film demanded it be cold and
20:59and it is up there was foot burning uh
21:01and so I my impression of Australia I
21:06think you guys have a free speech issue
21:09that's maybe I don't know this story is
21:13bringing it bubbling it up to light and
21:15sprit and I'll come out that there this
21:20is something I should be addressed and
21:21protected as free speech but I I don't
21:27know if you guys have really just strong
21:29feminist movements in Australia that are
21:32bullying others and the only thing
21:35content that they agree with

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