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97-Year-Old Holocaust Survivor Shares 9 Life Lessons People Learn Too Late | Edith Eger — Transcript

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0:00It's the hardest experiences in life
0:02that teach us the most powerful lessons.
0:06Whatever you do, guys, please do not
0:08click away.
0:10I have been hosting a podcast for 7
0:13years. I've released 500 episodes, and
0:16this conversation that you're about to
0:18hear
0:19is the one that has transformed my life
0:21the most, and I know it's going to do
0:23the same for you, no matter who you are
0:26or where you are in your life. When this
0:28lady was 16 years old, she was sent to
0:31Auschwitz concentration camp. Her
0:33parents were murdered,
0:35yet the way she got through the next few
0:38years is utterly remarkable.
0:41And what she shares has huge application
0:45for all of us.
0:47Auschwitz was an opportunity.
0:50And today we have an opportunity
0:54to really decide whether we are holding
0:57on to hatred
1:00or recognizing that
1:04that hatred is eating us up
1:07and how to be a survivor and not a
1:10victim of anything or anyone or any
1:13circumstance.
1:15You say Auschwitz was an opportunity.
1:18Yes.
1:19You're saying that
1:21now as a 93-year-old lady, is that
1:24right?
1:25Yes. Which is incredible.
1:28Yes, I don't
1:2993 years young. I love that.
1:33Uh chronological age doesn't count at
1:36all. Uh
1:38but I think Auschwitz was an opportunity
1:42for an opportunity
1:45to discover
1:47my power within me that no Nazi could
1:51take away or touch.
1:54Could you take us through that day when
1:58you were I mean what was that day like?
2:00One of the things I always say in
2:02schools is what my mother told me in the
2:05cattle car.
2:07We don't know where we going. We don't
2:09know what's going to happen. Just
2:11remember, no one can take away from you
2:14what you put here in your own mind.
2:17I tell the children in school to watch
2:20the Karate Kid because the best power is
2:23a brain power. Okay, and not to not to
2:27smoke pot because it interferes with the
2:30natural growth of the brain. So, this is
2:33exactly what happened. When I arrived,
2:36there was a sign Arbeit macht frei. Work
2:39makes you free
2:41make
2:43work makes you free.
2:45And it was chaotic. I didn't know where
2:49I was. I never heard of Auschwitz.
2:53But then we were separated.
2:56My father said, "Actually, you know, we
2:59just going to work and then we going to
3:01go home."
3:03And that's not what happened.
3:06Because an hour later he was in a gas
3:08chamber.
3:10So was my mother.
3:13So and then I stood in line with my
3:15sister Magda.
3:18And there was a guy
3:20who was referred to as the angel of
3:23death.
3:24He was pointing to the left or to the
3:27right.
3:29And pointed my mother to go to the left
3:32and when I followed my mother,
3:35he grabbed me.
3:37And I never forget those eyes.
3:41You know, I pay a lot of attention to
3:42eye contact. You have a very good eye
3:45contact with me because you know, I can
3:48kill you with my eyes and I can love you
3:50with my eyes. So, check your
3:53temperature. Actually, that's that's
3:55good.
3:57But, just with the eyes. And so, he drew
4:00me on the other side and said, "You're
4:02going to see your mother very soon.
4:04She's just going to take a shower."
4:10And as she drew me on the other side,
4:13I ended up a few miles away
4:16on Birkenau.
4:19And one of the inmates
4:22pulled my earrings out
4:24and yelled at me,
4:27that while I was going to the theater,
4:30she said I was rotting here. And so, she
4:34took her anger
4:36out on me.
4:38Today, we call it displaced aggression,
4:40but I didn't know that. I just said to
4:43her, "You know, I would have given you
4:44my earrings. And besides, when will I
4:48see my mother?"
4:50And she pointed at the chimney.
4:54And fire was coming out of the chimney
4:56and said, "Your mother is burning there.
5:00You better talk about her in past
5:03tense."
5:05And my sister hugged me and she said,
5:09makes me cry. And she said, "The spirit
5:11never dies."
5:15The spirit never dies.
5:19So, I consider it my duty
5:23to celebrate one of the most beautiful
5:25gift of God
5:28is the gift of memory.
5:31And I want to do everything in my power
5:34to see to it
5:36that your children and grandchildren
5:39and great-grandchildren, I have seven
5:42those,
5:43will never experience what I did.
5:47I'm for prevention. I'm for a lot of
5:49things rather than being against.
5:53I'm for life and for uniting and for
5:59hopefully having a human family that you
6:03can be you and I can be I,
6:06but together we're going to be much
6:08stronger.
6:09So, I I invite you and your culture and
6:13wherever you are
6:15and uh
6:17I make a good Jew bull.
6:19I I make
6:22many many Jewish young children become
6:25Buddhist and uh and I think there is a
6:28great deal to be said about being awake.
6:32Being awake every moment to me is is
6:36beautiful
6:38because
6:41I
6:43see what I lived.
6:47Look at the IQ and the EQ, the emotional
6:51IQ, the school of of of
6:55the experience that you had in life. And
6:58I'm hoping that people are recognizing
7:01that the IQ is fine,
7:04but unless you have a good sense about
7:08uh your life, where where are you now
7:11and where do you want to be and pick a
7:14goal and then pay attention
7:17uh to what they're focusing on. So, it
7:20has to be in alignment to have the goal
7:25and the goal is to have freedom.
7:29How do you define freedom?
7:32Uh by letting go
7:35of the concentration camp that you
7:38created in your own mind.
7:42That's what forgiveness is. You give
7:44yourself a gift
7:47that you do not carry
7:50the people that you hate.
7:53That you release them. You let them go.
7:58That's how
8:00That's why forgiveness isn't about me
8:03forgiving you for what you did to me.
8:06It's for me to liberate myself.
8:11Not to be a prisoner
8:14or the hostage of the past.
8:17I don't live in Auschwitz. I go through
8:20the valley of the shadow of death. I
8:22don't camp there or set up household
8:25there.
8:26But I don't forget it or overcome it.
8:29I came to terms with it. I call it my
8:32cherished wound.
8:34Yeah.
8:35I mean
8:37it is your book um
8:40I've got marks and underlines on almost
8:43every page of this thing. There is
8:46wisdom, there's gold. I've been on my
8:48own personal um
8:51inward journey since my father died 7
8:54and 1/2 years ago.
8:55And lots of the truths that I'm learning
8:58are beautifully
9:00um and very articulately put together in
9:04the gifts.
9:05Um
9:06and it really has been a gift into my
9:08life. So, I thank you for that once
9:09again.
9:11But I've got the first thing I've
9:12underlined is on page three.
9:15And it's just so powerful that it almost
9:16echoes what you just said. As an
9:18Auschwitz survivor
9:20I'm here to tell you that the worst
9:22prison is not the one the Nazis put me
9:25in.
9:26The worst prison
9:28is the one I built for myself.
9:32When did you start building that prison?
9:35And when were you able to get out of it?
9:42Before I answer your question,
9:45I like to ask you how old were you when
9:49your father died?
9:53So, I'm 43. Dad was 12, something like
9:57that.
9:58I was 35
10:01years old when my dad died.
10:04So, would you consider
10:07looking at it
10:09from a different perspective
10:11that you didn't lose your father,
10:14that spirit was sent to you for 35
10:18years,
10:19and you celebrate every moment,
10:23and then that spirit had to go home.
10:28I would, yeah.
10:30Just how you look at things.
10:34Yeah. Your father would be very grateful
10:36knowing
10:39that his son has a full life,
10:43that he's interviewing survivors,
10:46that he's he is an ambassador
10:50for peace.
10:53Isn't that a wonderful feeling? Just
10:56looking at the same thing from a
10:58different perspective.
11:00Yeah.
11:02Well, thank you for that.
11:03me be a ophthalmologist
11:07and recognizing
11:09that the prison is in our own minds,
11:13and the key is in our pocket.
11:19We create
11:20the Nazi within us.
11:23I graduated with honors, and I never
11:26showed up for my graduation
11:29because I did not forgive myself that I
11:32survived.
11:34You see, I didn't need the Nazi.
11:36I had
11:38in my mind,
11:41unfortunately,
11:44that part that didn't allow me
11:48to celebrate the freedom
11:50fully.
11:54Today, I won't do that.
11:58But, I think the prison that we put
12:01ourselves in our own mind
12:04needs to be really examined
12:07because every behavior satisfies a need.
12:12And when you have the victim's
12:13mentality,
12:15you're always going to find the
12:16victimizer.
12:18There is no victim without the
12:20victimizer, and it also gives you
12:25a
12:25secondary gain. It It gives you
12:31the idea
12:33that you don't have to do anything,
12:35zero.
12:37And that's why also yesterday's victims
12:40easily become today's victimizers
12:44because they look at the world two ways.
12:46The victim is weak. The victimizer is
12:49strong. So, part of the psyche will
12:52identify with the aggressor.
12:56And that's what we call uh
12:59the syndrome
13:00is um
13:02Stockholm syndrome, yes. Yeah. You
13:05identify with the aggressor, and many
13:08times children who are beaten,
13:10unfortunately, they grow up and
13:14and they carry it from generation to
13:16generation.
13:18I do everything in my power
13:21to teach especially fathers
13:24the way they treat their children
13:28is important
13:30because children don't do what we say,
13:34they do what they see.
13:38And And the way he loves his children is
13:41the way he treats the mother of their
13:44children.
13:47How he he loves and adores and takes
13:51care of the
13:53the mother, his wife,
13:56his life mate.
13:58Yeah. So, love is not what you feel,
14:01it's what you do.
14:03Just so powerful. Really
14:08There's
14:10There's such wisdom
14:12in what you say, Edith, but there's also
14:15There's love.
14:17I I can really feel there is love. It's
14:21There's no charge, there's no anger,
14:24there's no
14:25There's no sense that you're trying to
14:28talk down to me or talk down to anyone.
14:31It's It's It's a really lovely energy
14:34that even though we're 3,000 mi away and
14:37I'm looking at you through a screen, I
14:40can still feel it.
14:42I can feel you, too.
14:45Yes, our spirit is really connecting
14:48well. It People don't come to me,
14:51they're sent to me.
14:53And I I couldn't be more really blessed
14:58to have you in my life.
15:01And your father is winking now.
15:05And he says like Mr. Higgins,
15:08by God, he's got it.
15:14Yeah. No, for sure.
15:16Um
15:18Why do you think it's so important for
15:20fathers,
15:22Mhm. as opposed to mothers to behave a
15:26certain way in front of their children.
15:30I think the fathers
15:33are
15:35the role models
15:37to be a knowledgeable leader
15:40but not a dictator.
15:43A father is a man.
15:46There are lots of males running around,
15:48lots of boys are running around
15:51but a father who is a man
15:54is the knowledgeable leader, a teacher,
15:58a protector, a provider.
16:01You see, it's it's it's uh
16:05it's the family
16:07that is really totally protected by a
16:10man who was called upon
16:15to have a family
16:18that looks up at him because respect
16:22is recognition
16:25that you look at your father
16:27and knowing
16:29that he is not going to say one thing
16:32and do another.
16:33That's a definition of a hypocrite.
16:36So when the phone rings and you pick up
16:40the phone
16:42and you tell your father very quietly,
16:45"Daddy, it's for you."
16:48And your father tells you very quietly,
16:51"Tell your mom not here."
16:53And the following week he's giving you a
16:56lecture about honesty, you're going to
16:59catch your father very quickly and say,
17:02"Hey Dad, what are we talking about?
17:05Okay?" Children see everything. They say
17:09uh you know, and I think that's very
17:11important with the children to be
17:14consistent.
17:16Yeah.
17:17Yeah. I train parents to be good parents
17:20to themselves
17:22so they can be good parents to their
17:25children.
17:26Yeah.
17:27Now, thank you for that. It's
17:31you know,
17:32I've been a father now for 10 years
17:35and I've very much changed
17:39my parenting style
17:41over those 10 years,
17:44but a lot of that has come from me
17:47clearing out my own closet, you know,
17:49looking in the mirror, being honest with
17:51myself, not trying to kid myself, and
17:53saying, "Hey, listen. Listen Listen,
17:55mates.
17:57Um
17:57you can't say this and do something
17:59different." And And I totally agree with
18:02you, and certainly this has been my
18:03experience that kids don't do
18:06what you tell them to do. They do what
18:09they see you doing, and that really has
18:11been a huge
18:13motivator and driver for me
18:16to change because I'm thinking, "Well,
18:18if If I value my role as a father as one
18:21of the most important roles in my life,
18:24which I do,
18:26then what could be more important to me
18:28than
18:30addressing my past,
18:32getting rid of guilt, shame, anger, all
18:36kinds of toxic emotions that I have felt
18:39really until very, very recently?
18:43And by freeing myself from them,
18:46I parent in a different way.
18:48The interaction is different. It's more
18:50joyful, more happy,
18:53but it started with looking in the
18:54mirror
18:55and being honest with myself."
18:58Beautiful that you do that, and you're
19:00also called upon to be a guide to
19:04others.
19:06A guide from darkness to light, from
19:08prison to freedom.
19:10You know, it is back is that someone
19:14looks at you and said, I want to be like
19:17him.
19:21So, it's not what we feel, it's what we
19:23do. That we commit ourselves and that's
19:27what happened in Auschwitz. We had to
19:30commit
19:32to each other. It was cooperation, not
19:35competition or domination because all we
19:39had was each other then.
19:42And all we have is each other now.
19:45How can we empower each other with our
19:49differences?
19:53Would you mind if I asked you
19:56a few more questions about your
19:58experience in Auschwitz?
20:01Yes.
20:02Auschwitz was hell.
20:06You know, I usually like to quote Hans
20:08Selye
20:10who has a theory on stress. Yeah. And he
20:13says, anytime something stressful come
20:17to us, we have two automatic responses.
20:20We either fight or flee.
20:24That did not work in Auschwitz because
20:27if you touch the guards, you were shot
20:29right there and then.
20:32I witnessed that.
20:35When people would go and touch the guard
20:38and I were shot.
20:40There is no way I could flee because if
20:44I touched the barbed wire, I was
20:48electrocuted and I saw that blue body.
20:51So, I
20:54I knew what not to do.
20:58And I was able to turn
21:00the hatred into pity
21:03and decided
21:05that they were the prisoners.
21:07So, I became a very talented uh
21:11schizophrenic.
21:13I I did what I was told every day, but
21:17deep inside, I had my spirit.
21:23They could put me in a gas chamber any
21:25minute. I had no power over it.
21:294:00 in the morning when we stood, it
21:32was called the appeal. Like we were
21:34counting heads.
21:36And they told us, "If you don't feel
21:38well, just stay in the barracks. We're
21:42going to take you to the hospital."
21:45We had to discover, it was a place for
21:48discovery,
21:49that there was no hospital. There was
21:52the gas chamber. So, don't ever stay
21:55behind because they'll never see you
21:58again. We had to learn very quickly the
22:01rules, not to fight or flee, but to stay
22:06in a situation
22:08and just kind of when they say one day
22:11at a time, I would say to myself, "If I
22:15survive today, then tomorrow, I'm going
22:19to see my boyfriend because he told me I
22:22have beautiful eyes and beautiful
22:25hands." So, it's It's the way you think.
22:31You create You create what you think.
22:34That's important. Every morning when you
22:37get up in the morning and you look in
22:39the mirror and you say, "I love me."
22:44Because self-love is self-care.
22:47It's not narcissistic.
22:50It's okay to love you
22:54and look forward to the day that you
22:57create your thinking, you create your
23:01feeling, and you create the behavior.
23:04So, before you say anything, ask
23:07yourself, is it kind?
23:11Is it really very important and
23:13necessary? And if it's not, don't say
23:16it.
23:19I teach couples how to share silence.
23:22Don't ask, "How are you?" That's a
23:24stupidest question.
23:27People say, "Fine."
23:29And I tested that.
23:31I tested that because I was professor of
23:34psychology and my student told me
23:38that in America people are hearing but
23:40not listening.
23:43And I said, "Let's test it. Tomorrow
23:45morning, when you pick up your books,
23:48someone is going to say hi to you and
23:51you say very quietly,
23:53'My mother died this morning.'"
23:57Sure enough,
24:01the morning someone came, said hi to
24:04him, he said,
24:06"Hi, how are you?"
24:09And my student said, "My mother died
24:11this morning."
24:13And guess what happened? "Oh, that's
24:16great. I'll see you this afternoon."
24:18People are hearing but not listening.
24:22I like to be a compassionate listener
24:26even to the white supremacy
24:29uh member who came to see me and told me
24:32how he's going to kill all the Jewish
24:35people,
24:38all the black people, all the Mexicans,
24:41all the Chinese,
24:44and not to
24:45react. If I would have reacted, I would
24:48have taken that boy and dragged him to
24:51the corner. I would step on him
24:55and tell him, "Who do you think you're
24:56talking to. I saw my mother going to the
24:59gas chamber.
25:03But I think that the most obnoxious
25:06person
25:08is my best teacher.
25:11Yeah.
25:12So, I I I think it's very good to look
25:16at the bigot in you.
25:19Yeah. It's there. There is a Hitler
25:21there. There is a Mother Teresa there.
25:24There is kindness. There is goodness.
25:27And I think it's really, really
25:28important
25:31to really change our thinking that can
25:34change our lives.
25:37Yeah.
25:39I I'm getting shivers as you're talking
25:43because
25:47this
25:49these words of wisdom that you
25:53that you speak
25:57I can feel the truth in them.
25:59You know, I can I can feel that that
26:02this
26:03I guess this is this is where I'm
26:07I've been coming for a few years. I've
26:09really been trying to understand myself,
26:11understand human behavior.
26:13And
26:15I'm fascinated by people. I'm fascinated
26:18why
26:19why someone's ended up in front of me,
26:21why they've got a particular illness,
26:23why they talk about it in a particular
26:26way, why some engage with what you want
26:28them to do and others don't engage.
26:31And I've never really judged my
26:33patients. I've always tried to learn
26:35from them and understand.
26:38And I guess where I'm currently on in my
26:41journey and what I love about what you
26:43just said is
26:45I I I literally do this every day. I
26:47look for the friction.
26:50I look for where was I not at ease with
26:54something? Where did something bother
26:56me? Or where did I feel an emotion?
27:00And then
27:01my current
27:03approach is instead of trying to blame
27:05somebody else for that,
27:08I go, "No, no, no, hold on. This is me.
27:10What is this bringing up in me?" Because
27:12that's what I can control. I can control
27:14my reaction. So, if I'm getting
27:16triggered, what is it triggering? So, I
27:19spend my life now going inwards.
27:22And I got to say, it's so rewarding
27:25because what could be better
27:27than understanding yourself?
27:31Oh, that is so beautiful because you
27:34said the magic word,
27:36trigger.
27:38It has nothing to do what's going on
27:40this minute with that person. That
27:43person is triggering something in me
27:47that is totally
27:49mine, unfinished emotional
27:53family of origin business.
27:58See? So, then you're grateful.
28:03And you say, "Tell me more."
28:05Because love is time, t i m e.
28:09And it's very hard to give time.
28:12Right? How much time do they give you?
28:15With a person, 15, 20 minutes?
28:1910. It's
28:2110 minutes.
28:23Yeah. 10 minutes.
28:2510 minutes.
28:28Every moment is
28:31changing their lives.
28:34Don't try to understand things. That
28:37that that belongs to a classroom. It's
28:40all in your head. Just go to the heart.
28:44And just say, "Sounds like." And then
28:46put the feeling verb next to it. Sounds
28:49like you're angry about that.
28:52I did that with a general.
28:55Okay?
28:57And he said,
28:59uh
28:59about the daughter, the teenage
29:01daughter, who's smoking pot and telling
29:05the father all kinds of unfortunate
29:08labels, dictator, and so on.
29:12And uh
29:17You cannot change what other people are
29:20going to say to you,
29:22but you can say, "The more they talk,
29:25the more relaxed I become."
29:28But you take the negative stimuli and
29:30turn it into positive.
29:34You see? And then you say, "I'm
29:37practicing my low frustration tolerance
29:41level."
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30:10So, you I'm not a shrink, I'm a stretch,
30:14yeah? You are a stretch, and they're
30:17stretch. They really are
30:20testing you, pushing your buttons, too,
30:23not to react, because when you react,
30:26you don't think about how to respond.
30:30Just take a deep breath.
30:33You cannot change the external
30:36circumstance.
30:38I could not change that.
30:41But I actually looked at the guards that
30:44they were the prisoners, not me.
30:48That I was innocent.
30:50And when a woman tells me
30:53"Somebody touched me inappropriately."
30:57And I don't know how to tell you because
30:59you were in Auschwitz.
31:02And I tell that woman
31:04"You were more in prison than I was
31:07because I knew the enemy."
31:11I was told I'm never going to get out of
31:13here alive.
31:15I was told I'm cancer to society.
31:19And the only way I will get out of here
31:21as a corpse.
31:25And they took my blood
31:28many, many times. And one time I asked,
31:32"Why are you taking my blood?"
31:35And he said, "To aid the German soldiers
31:38so we can win the war and take over the
31:42world."
31:44I couldn't yank my arm away, right? But
31:47I said to myself, "You stupid idiot.
31:50I was a ballerina.
31:54I With my blood, you're never going to
31:57win the war." And so I had my humor,
32:01you know, sarcasm, cynicism, whatever
32:04kind of humor that really kept us alive.
32:09But it is very important
32:11for you to know
32:14that many people can do what you can do,
32:17but not the way you can do that.
32:20You're unique. You're one of a kind.
32:23I love the way you are with me. You see,
32:27I I I I see the honesty and the
32:32humanness, accepting the fact that
32:35you're human and you mistakes, and you
32:39will make mistakes
32:41because we don't have any godly powers.
32:43We're humans.
32:46And it's okay not to be perfect.
32:49Yeah. And by the way, when you are a
32:52perfect
32:54perfectionist,
32:56you're going to procrastinate. Keep that
32:58in mind that
33:01you want to do everything just right.
33:04And when my granddaughter was in a class
33:08and the IQ was 148,
33:12she was a perfectionist,
33:14and I went to visit the class, and she
33:17would erase one thing a million times,
33:20and the teacher called her my little red
33:23caboose.
33:25That's the last car on a train.
33:29It's called the red caboose.
33:32So, she thought she doesn't qualify to
33:37stay in that class, and she was ready to
33:40check out.
33:42And she was about 10 years old, and the
33:45first time I talked to her about
33:48Auschwitz
33:50on a 10-year-old level. So, you have to
33:53know age-wise who you're talking to.
33:57I cannot talk to a 10-year-old about
34:00cognitive dissonance. I can talk to you
34:03about that, but I think we need to learn
34:06how to meet people where they are,
34:10and then treat them the way you want
34:12them to be.
34:14So,
34:16I told you all not to allow the teacher
34:18to call
34:20her names. I don't like labels. Anyway,
34:24I succeeded. She went back to school.
34:26And when it was time
34:29to write letters
34:33to get to colleges.
34:35You have to write your autobiography
34:38and the title was when the caboose
34:42became an engine.
34:44And she got into Princeton, she
34:47graduated with honors, she got a UCLA,
34:51got a PhD, and she's a professor of
34:54psychology today. So, you see you got to
34:58question authority
35:01and rather than blindly adhere to
35:04authority.
35:05I also like to tell you that Ahmadinejad
35:09said many years ago
35:13and I was interviewed by the same
35:16person, Larry King,
35:18he said that the Holocaust did not
35:21exist.
35:22And I'm quite sure that Ahmadinejad did
35:25not read Plato
35:27who said, "You have to think of a lie.
35:31It has to be a big one and then you
35:34repeat it, repeat it until people
35:37believe it."
35:38So, our biggest enemy is ignorance.
35:43And it's very, very important
35:46to look at the small towns when people
35:50are hearing a preacher and talking
35:53against this one or against that one and
35:56be sure that children question an
36:00authority rather than blindly adhere to
36:04authority.
36:05Yeah.
36:07Yeah.
36:09What was it about you
36:12in Auschwitz that
36:14gave you the
36:17the spirit to keep going because you
36:20mentioned the story that if you touched
36:22the guard, you'd be shot.
36:24And you saw some of your uh fellow
36:27inmates doing that. And I uh the
36:30question that rose up for me is
36:33do you think that some of them did that
36:35on purpose because they couldn't take it
36:37anymore and they knew if they touched a
36:40guard that it would be over?
36:45I had a friend
36:47who was so proud
36:50that her father ran into the barbed wire
36:53that he took charge of his life.
36:57You know,
36:58that is dead. I was 16 in love.
37:03I wanted to live so badly.
37:06I wanted to do everything in my power
37:09not to ever
37:12allow them
37:15to take over.
37:19That spirit
37:21that is with me now,
37:24that spirit
37:26that you're reading,
37:29because people ask me for the how-to
37:31book.
37:32They wanted to know
37:35what what can be done in a challenging
37:38situation.
37:40So, there is no problem, there only
37:42challenges.
37:44There is no crisis, there is only
37:46transition.
37:49Yeah.
37:50So, if you approach midlife, don't talk
37:53about crisis, talk about transition
37:57because you're going to give up your
37:58need to please other people.
38:02You're going to give up the need for
38:04other people's approval. You you you
38:07regain your power.
38:10You give birth to the you
38:13that is free at last.
38:17Some people may listen to this and
38:20listen to your story
38:22and go, "Wow,
38:24she's an incredible lady." Which I
38:25completely agree with, but they may go
38:27one step further and they may say,
38:31"Well, she's special. She's got a
38:33superpower.
38:35I'm not like her. She was able to
38:37overcome what she went through and come
38:40out the other side. She's stronger than
38:43me."
38:44What would you say to someone who's
38:46feeling like that?
38:48Get rid of the word overcome.
38:52I don't forget.
38:54I do not overcome.
38:57I come to terms with it.
39:00Part of me was left in Auschwitz.
39:03I want to be a realist,
39:06not an idealist.
39:08Life is difficult. The more I suffer,
39:11the stronger I become.
39:14I did not ask to go to Auschwitz. You
39:17did not ask to be touched
39:19inappropriately.
39:21You did not ask to be Daddy's little
39:26little
39:28little woman, like when you watch Gone
39:31with the
39:32with the movie. It's a wonderful movie
39:35to talk about and take each every one of
39:39those wonderful characters that he
39:42doesn't take his wife to London. He
39:44takes the little girl to London.
39:48And that's why I ask many people, "When
39:50did your childhood end?"
39:56See?
39:58Because many children have to take care
40:01of their parents. If father is an
40:04alcoholic, if mother doesn't get up
40:06until 4:00 in the afternoon because she
40:09has migraine headaches, I think it's
40:11very important
40:14to ask yourself, "When did you and my
40:16childhood end? If you're a child of an
40:19immigrant, my little girl was 2 years
40:22old when we came to America.
40:25She taught me how to speak English. She
40:28taught me how to buy peanut butter. I
40:31never saw peanut butter in my whole life
40:35or tuna fish, you know, so so the
40:38children become parentized.
40:42So, you got to kind of see
40:44whether you went through the ages
40:47and stages of life.
40:50The person to really study is Piaget.
40:53And Piaget as a Swiss psychologist
40:57studying the ages and stages of life
41:00development.
41:01And many many people are grieving over a
41:05childhood
41:07or the teenage years they never had.
41:11Yeah.
41:12Yeah, for sure.
41:14One of the things um
41:16I've heard you say before
41:18is
41:20I don't want you to hear my story and
41:22say my own suffering is insignificant.
41:26I want you to hear it and say, if she
41:28can do it,
41:30so can I.
41:32That was so such a wonderful thing to
41:34read and it it sort of partners very
41:36nicely with another thing you say in the
41:37book, which is there is no hierarchy in
41:40trauma.
41:41And I think this is such an important
41:43point and I actually
41:45um this morning uh I mean, I'm talking
41:48to you in the British evening. I'm sure
41:50it's morning, I think, for you in
41:52California. Um and I I I had a
41:54conversation with someone today about um
41:59just about racism and actually how we
42:02can talk about race to our children.
42:05And as we were talking about it
42:07afterwards,
42:08this this whole idea came up that
42:12sometimes in life
42:14if we hear that someone has suffered
42:16more than us,
42:18there's often a guilt that happens and
42:19we think, "Oh, well, I can't really tell
42:21them how I'm feeling because my
42:24suffering is nothing compared to
42:25theirs." And I thought the way you put
42:27it in the book, "There's no hierarchy in
42:28trauma." was just so beautiful.
42:33No, because uh
42:35it's in the in my book, The The Choice,
42:39when woman came and the daughter was
42:42dying of hemophilia and we cried and
42:46cried and the following hour someone
42:49cried the same way because her Cadillac
42:53was delivered and it was not the same
42:56shade that she expected.
42:59So, do I tell that woman, "You stupid
43:02idiot. You should have been here an hour
43:04ago."
43:06That don't minimize or trivialize
43:10anything.
43:12Suffering is a feeling. It's part of
43:15life.
43:17It's good to invite it in when you get
43:20triggered. Feel that feeling, but then
43:23you decide how long you're going to hold
43:26on to that feeling.
43:28Any behavior satisfies a need and if
43:32you're the victim,
43:33you're going to
43:35gain
43:37a lot because you don't have to do
43:40anything.
43:42You're always going to find a victimizer
43:44and couples do that, too. The victim
43:48becomes the victimizer, goes back and
43:50forth and back and forth. I don't know
43:52if that makes any sense to you, but all
43:55I can tell you
43:56that man created patriarchy.
44:01And the Bible even says that the woman
44:05comes to the world to please man and
44:08take care of man. If I would be a man, I
44:12would do the same thing that you marry
44:15someone who's a virgin, you marry
44:17someone who's younger, so God forbid
44:20that you find out that another man is a
44:23better lover. You know, it's it's very
44:26well defined that the man
44:30is the king.
44:31And it's okay if she's the queen and the
44:34children are the princesses and the
44:36princes,
44:37there is nothing wrong with that, but
44:40the man has to use his power to be the
44:44role model
44:47to the children
44:50who are looking at that father and say,
44:54"I want to be just like him."
44:57Or I want to be everything he's not.
45:00Yeah.
45:01Can you relate it to that?
45:04Yeah.
45:05That the uh boy, especially, looks at
45:07that and says, "I want to be
45:10just like him." Or there is no way I'm
45:13ever going to be like my father. And
45:15guess what? He grows up
45:19and he decides
45:22to be a caregiver
45:24even though the father wants
45:27him to join his business or
45:31become
45:33a doctor just like him.
45:35That's no problem because the son chose
45:40to give up the need for his father's
45:43approval.
45:45See, there is you got to give up
45:48something.
45:51And that's no problem, but when he said,
45:53"I'm never going to be like my father,"
45:56then he's a rebel. And if you if you are
46:00wanting to prove something, you're still
46:03a prisoner.
46:06Yeah.
46:08If you want to prove something,
46:11you're still not free.
46:15So, if you want to prove something to
46:16somebody else,
46:19there's still charge, isn't it? There's
46:20still emotion behind that.
46:23You're still a child,
46:25and you don't know how to just let go.
46:28Oh, my father is my father.
46:31I carry half of it in my blood. Half of
46:35it is my mother. Half of it is my
46:38father. And I'm going to make peace with
46:41my father.
46:42I don't have to be like him.
46:45He can be himself, and I can be I.
46:49And hopefully, we can empower each other
46:53with our differences.
46:56You don't come from an agenda.
46:59In marriage, too,
47:01when a woman said,
47:03"My love is going to cure him, and he's
47:06going to stop drinking." No. He's
47:09already married
47:12to the alcohol.
47:14He's an addict.
47:16She doesn't realize
47:19that love
47:20is something that
47:23you accept someone just the way they
47:26are.
47:29"I will I marry him, and I'm going to
47:31love him, he's going to stop drinking."
47:34That's not reality.
47:40Or a workaholic, anything that you do
47:43excess, you got to look at addiction.
47:47So powerful.
47:49You mentioned that you would say if you
47:52or when you wake up tomorrow,
47:55I think you said you'll see your
47:56boyfriends.
47:58Was it the thought of your boyfriend
48:01that kept you going? Was that the
48:03picture you painted inside your minds to
48:07keep you going? And also along with
48:09that, how important is it for all of us,
48:12no matter
48:14who we are or where we are in life,
48:17to have something outside ourselves
48:21to be holding on to and to, you know, to
48:24serve others, I guess is what I'm trying
48:26to say. Is how important was that to
48:28help
48:29get you through, but also how important
48:32is it for those of us who haven't been
48:34through what you went through, but are
48:36still struggling?
48:38You are so brilliant. But I'm going to
48:41give you one word
48:44that
48:47guided me to survive.
48:50And the word is curiosity.
48:53I always wanted to know what's going to
48:56happen next.
48:58I was curious.
49:02There is no way
49:04I wanted to ever do anything other than
49:08wanting to know
49:10what's going to happen next.
49:14And who knows what's going to happen
49:16next?
49:18You may find your freedom.
49:21And you may find out that
49:24you can discover
49:26within you that you never thought was
49:29possible.
49:31That no one can take away
49:33the way you think about anything.
49:36Your attitude, your responses,
49:41your opportunity
49:44to pray for the guards
49:47because they were the prisoners.
49:52So it's just what you think you create.
49:55That is very true.
49:58So, if you use words like I always, I
50:01never,
50:02you know,
50:04woman tells me, "I got to find a man."
50:07And I say to her, "You know what? If I
50:10were a man, I would run from you."
50:13See?
50:14She's operating on a very negative
50:17self-fulfilling prophecy.
50:20I'm always this, I'm never that. Get rid
50:22of those words. Yeah. They are
50:24absolutistic.
50:26Just say, "Up till now, I did this. And
50:29now, I can read the gift, and I have a
50:32choice." The more choices you have, the
50:36less you feel like a victim.
50:40You you bring up this this very
50:42important
50:44concepts of language.
50:47And
50:50the words we use to describe things.
50:52Now, I'm going to share with you that
50:56I actually
50:57generally speaking, no longer say,
51:00to my knowledge, I lost my dad. But for
51:04some reason, in this conversation early
51:06on, it popped out. So, clearly, I
51:09haven't fully eliminated that. Because
51:12normally, I don't say it anymore. But
51:14for some reason, I did. And And why I'm
51:16sharing that is because I I've been
51:18really feeling over the last few years.
51:20And this is something that my wife and I
51:22spend a lot of time with our kids doing
51:25is being very mindful of words. Like if
51:27the kids say, "Oh, I'm never good at You
51:29know, it's all that always happens."
51:30It's like, "Well, hold on. Is that true?
51:33Is that really true? How about we
51:35rephrase that?" Or if they say something
51:38like,
51:39um
51:39"Oh, man, I need that." Like, "Do you Do
51:42you Do you need that?" And I tell you,
51:44my daughter's only seven,
51:47she gets this. Like she she calls me out
51:49now. "Daddy, do you really do you do you
51:51need that? Oh, you you mean you want
51:52it." I'm like, "Okay, you know, thanks,
51:54darling. Thanks for letting me know."
51:56So, I guess what I want to ask you is
51:59how important are the words we use?
52:02And then
52:04you're writing this
52:06brilliant world life-changing books in
52:09your 90s.
52:11But how can we teach those lessons
52:14to children so they don't need to wait
52:17till midlife and later life to learn
52:20what you've learned and what you're
52:22trying to teach us now?
52:25It is what
52:27needs are things without which we cannot
52:29survive.
52:32Period.
52:34We need to breathe.
52:36Without air, we cannot go on beyond 4
52:40minutes.
52:42We need
52:44to sleep. After 3 days, we hallucinate.
52:49We need to sleep.
52:52We need to eat eventually.
52:56I know for about 2 weeks I didn't get
52:59any food.
53:01I know that Gandhi
53:05went possibly a month without food. And
53:09people say, "You know, I need to go
53:11downtown. I need to take care of this
53:14and that." And I
53:16that's not a need. That's a want.
53:20And why why is it important that we get
53:22this right? Because some people will go,
53:24"Yeah, but this is just colloquial talk.
53:26It doesn't matter." But I I suspect you
53:29think as I do that it actually does
53:31matter.
53:32It does matter. And also people have the
53:35rules that are very rigid rather than
53:39flexible.
53:41I need to write a a letter to my mother.
53:44I need to call my mother every day. My
53:47sister Clara made her granddaughter call
53:51her every morning 8:00 and sing a
53:54Hungarian song.
53:58Otherwise, she was going to be punished.
54:01You see?
54:02My sister
54:04was a very controlling person.
54:10And you know what? That kid didn't want
54:12to go to grandma after that.
54:16She really didn't know how to be a
54:17grandma.
54:20Okay? You get to learn two things,
54:23negotiate and compromise. You make a
54:26deal with your child.
54:29Daddy, give me $50.
54:33But don't tell me what to do with your
54:35$50. That's a child.
54:38They want all the freedom and no the
54:40responsibility.
54:43So, you write a constitution for your
54:45family
54:47that you work as a team.
54:50You have two children,
54:52then you have four wheels.
54:54And that four wheels is
54:57is necessary because if one of them
54:59goes, the other three goes with it.
55:03That you have rules, you write them.
55:07America has a constitution. You write
55:10your constitution.
55:14Yeah.
55:15But there is no punishment, only
55:18consequence.
55:22So, if you don't do this and this and
55:25this, that means
55:27the weekend you stay home.
55:30See, you talk about rules and the
55:33children are part of the decision-making
55:36process.
55:39It's not me telling you what you should
55:41do. Get rid of that word, you could.
55:46It's called assertive discipline. So, if
55:50I am a a school teacher
55:52school teacher,
55:54I am certified
55:56and um
55:58if if you make noises in my class
56:02I'm coming to you and tell you, you
56:05know, I get paid for teaching this class
56:10and if you make noises, it really
56:13interferes
56:14with my process. So, you see I'm giving
56:18you a choice to leave or stay here
56:21quietly.
56:23Yeah. Because there is no freedom
56:25without responsibility.
56:27It's anarchy.
56:31Yeah.
56:34So, love you again.
56:37Not what you feel, it's what you do
56:40and you do for the betterment of that
56:43family.
56:45And I think you can teach the 7-year-old
56:48how to put the dishes in a dishwasher.
56:51It has to be age appropriate.
56:55Yeah.
56:57So, you have a 7-year-old daughter and a
57:0010-year-old son.
57:01Okay.
57:02So, the 7-year-old daughter will tell
57:05you, I want to go to bed when my brother
57:09goes to bed. I I don't want to go to bed
57:12earlier.
57:13Am I saying something? Yeah, you did.
57:17And I hate you, Daddy.
57:21I hate you, Mommy.
57:23And I say
57:26and the child says
57:30WHY DO I HAVE to go to bed early?
57:34And why do you tell me?
57:36And mommy said, because I'm a good mommy
57:39and that's what good mommies do, rather
57:42than because I said so.
57:45That's stupid.
57:48What do you mean I said so?
57:52And so I grew up.
57:55That's how I grew up, because I said so.
57:58There was no conversation.
58:01So what do you want?
58:03What kind of family do you want?
58:08Do you want dictatorship?
58:11Do you want to be a knowledgeable
58:13leader? I'm sure you are.
58:16I don't have to tell you any of that.
58:19You create an atmosphere
58:22where children can feel any feelings
58:25without the fear of being judged.
58:30Yeah.
58:32Sorry.
58:32There is no right or wrong.
58:34You know, bad or good.
58:37No. No.
58:39No.
58:42One thing we started doing this summer,
58:45Edith, um
58:47And I think this this was actually I
58:49took I about 3 weeks off social media. I
58:52just I just went off
58:54and it was an incredible time because I
58:57was able to really tap into
59:00who I was, what I was feeling without
59:03having to listen to the noise of the
59:05world or not having to cuz I never had
59:07to, it was a choice. I made the choice
59:10to for 3 weeks
59:12to turn off the noise from outside so I
59:16could go in inwards.
59:18And in that time
59:20I started to write down some of my own
59:22personal values. Really used to think
59:25about what are they? What are the values
59:27by which I want to live my life?
59:30And then I had the the idea what I I was
59:33I was walking in the woods thinking
59:34about I thought oh why don't we do this
59:36as a family?
59:37And so one dinner time or just before
59:39meal time I think we sat down the four
59:42of us
59:43and we all had to contribute and we came
59:46up with five values or so and we all had
59:49to agree. So I said
59:51you know mommy and daddy can't enforce
59:53any of these values at all. We all have
59:56to agree. So once some everyone had a
59:58chance to come up with their own value
1:00:00and we went round the table and everyone
1:00:02had to say whether they agreed or not.
1:00:04And what's been really great about it
1:00:06and this is just an experiment that I've
1:00:08been trying with my wife
1:00:10is that if one of us
1:00:13is not has done something that is not
1:00:16aligned with that value
1:00:19then the conversation goes like let's
1:00:21say it's one of my children.
1:00:23The conversation is okay so was what you
1:00:26did there aligned
1:00:28with the values that we've all agreed
1:00:31on?
1:00:32And
1:00:33what is
1:00:34you know I'm finding it really effective
1:00:36because
1:00:37it's not anyone telling one another what
1:00:40they've done or what they haven't done.
1:00:41It's really treating people with respect
1:00:43and saying hey look
1:00:45we all agreed to this. Yeah actually you
1:00:47know what I've done something that's not
1:00:48aligned with that.
1:00:50I'm going to recognize that
1:00:52and make a change. Hey guys really hope
1:00:55you're finding this useful. If you are
1:00:57and you want more content like it please
1:01:00do check out my book make change that
1:01:02lasts nine simple ways to break free
1:01:05from the habits that are holding you
1:01:07back. It's in all the usual places as a
1:01:09paperback ebook and there's an audio
1:01:12book which I'm narrating now. Back to
1:01:14the video.
1:01:16Um is that the sort of thing you're
1:01:17talking about?
1:01:20Well
1:01:22I like things to be written down.
1:01:25So,
1:01:27so you avoid what I thought you said, I
1:01:30think you said, and I
1:01:33No,
1:01:34you you you write down
1:01:38what if then, if then, if this happened,
1:01:43then, you know, and then
1:01:46and then you hear your child saying,
1:01:51because sometimes we say I understand
1:01:54when we don't.
1:01:55When I came to America, people spoke to
1:01:58me, and they wanted to know if I really
1:02:00get it, and I would say yes, even though
1:02:04I had no idea what they were talking
1:02:06about.
1:02:07So, I think you want to be sure that you
1:02:10hear exactly.
1:02:13Then you write it down and sign it on
1:02:16the dotted line and have it notarized,
1:02:20and those are the rules.
1:02:23We are for cooperation,
1:02:25not competition or domination.
1:02:29But, I was made
1:02:31before you, and that's why I am an
1:02:34adult, and your brain doesn't develop
1:02:38until you're 25.
1:02:41So, a child does not
1:02:46play with a full card until they're 25,
1:02:50and that's why you have to really know
1:02:53how to talk
1:02:56to a child who is limited, not
1:02:59limitless.
1:03:01You got to study the ages and stages of
1:03:04development.
1:03:08You you talk about cooperation, and one
1:03:11of the
1:03:13one of the many striking things about
1:03:16your life story that I've read about
1:03:20is how even in Auschwitz
1:03:24kindness and cooperation
1:03:28was absolutely key. It was key for you
1:03:31to survive and actually not only was it
1:03:34key for
1:03:35you to survive
1:03:37it potentially saved your life at a
1:03:39point later on, I believe, when you were
1:03:41starving and very, very hungry.
1:03:44I
1:03:45When Dr. Mengele gave me a piece of
1:03:48bread
1:03:49I could have gobbled it all up
1:03:52and I chose to climb up and share it
1:03:56with the girls
1:03:57and later on when I was in the death
1:04:00march going from Mauthausen to
1:04:03Gunskirchen.
1:04:08And if I would have stopped, I would
1:04:10have been shot right away.
1:04:12I revisited that place, every little
1:04:15place I was
1:04:17and I looked at those places that I
1:04:20could have been shot
1:04:22and the girls that I shared the bread
1:04:25with saw me
1:04:27stopping and they came
1:04:30and they carried me. They formed a chair
1:04:32with their arms
1:04:34and they carried me so I wouldn't die.
1:04:37All we had was each other then
1:04:40and all we have is each other now.
1:04:45And cannibalism broke out.
1:04:49And then people were eating other
1:04:51people's flesh.
1:04:54I begged people to watch a movie called
1:04:56The Sound of Music
1:05:00because I asked God
1:05:04to help me because I cannot possibly
1:05:07touch human flesh
1:05:10and God said just look
1:05:13And I realized, I discovered
1:05:16that I still have grass to eat. And I
1:05:19remember then choosing one blade of
1:05:23grass over and against the other. So, I
1:05:27can't is not in my vocabulary. When I go
1:05:31to a classroom, I run to the blackboard.
1:05:35I put I can't equal I am helpless. And
1:05:39then I take the eraser and take the
1:05:42apostrophe and a T, I can. Why? Because
1:05:46I think I can.
1:05:48The whole cognitive psychology based on
1:05:52a philosopher called Epictetus who said,
1:05:57"It's not what happens makes you feel
1:05:59the way you feel, it's the way you view
1:06:02it."
1:06:03Yeah. Mhm.
1:06:06You know,
1:06:07this idea
1:06:08that
1:06:10we have the power, we have the power to
1:06:12choose.
1:06:13If we take some common scenarios, right?
1:06:15So,
1:06:17you know, I I I I
1:06:19I made a little video on judgment the
1:06:20other day and I I sort of released it
1:06:22and it really connected well with
1:06:25people, but one person replied and said
1:06:28said, "Rangan, look, I love the video. I
1:06:31I I find it really really helpful.
1:06:34I can do it. I can not judge others. I
1:06:37can forgive others, but the one person I
1:06:38can't forgive
1:06:40is the neighbor who was cruel to my
1:06:42elderly mother before she died."
1:06:44Okay? So, that's one thing.
1:06:47And then other common scenarios that I
1:06:49hear, let's say
1:06:51someone's husband has cheated on them,
1:06:54right? The common narrative is
1:06:59it's okay then to be a victim cuz on one
1:07:01level you are a victim. Or or that is
1:07:04the perception, right? And so, how would
1:07:06you help someone understand that and
1:07:08say, "Okay,
1:07:10something that you didn't want, that you
1:07:13didn't expect, that you didn't ask for,
1:07:15has happened to you,
1:07:17but the power
1:07:20is in what you do and how you view that
1:07:22situation." I mean, can you help maybe
1:07:24someone's listening or watching this
1:07:26right now who's going through some of
1:07:28those scenarios? How would you help them
1:07:31understand that actually they can choose
1:07:34the way they think about that situation.
1:07:38I had a woman
1:07:40who came to see me with a big cross.
1:07:45And I studied with Carl Rogers
1:07:47and I learned from him
1:07:50unconditional positive regard to anyone
1:07:53who comes to see me,
1:07:56even if they're a member of the white
1:07:58supremacy group.
1:08:00So, this woman came in
1:08:03and I talked to her and then she said to
1:08:06me, "I'm so glad I finally found a good
1:08:11Christian counselor like you."
1:08:16So, I'm not saying anything because
1:08:19Jesus was a poor little boy who was
1:08:21Jewish, you know, so I thought to
1:08:23myself, "That's okay." So, we went on
1:08:27and then she became very angry.
1:08:31"My husband cheated on me.
1:08:34I hate him.
1:08:36I want to kill him.
1:08:39I don't know if I could ever forgive
1:08:41him."
1:08:45Shaking her fist,
1:08:47and I very quietly said to her,
1:08:51"Would you be so kind and repeat
1:08:55what I'm going to say?"
1:08:58She didn't like me anymore. "What?" she
1:09:02said.
1:09:03And I said
1:09:08I forgive myself
1:09:11for putting judgement on my husband.
1:09:17And she wanted to kill me.
1:09:19It's not fair. WHY ON EARTH CAN you say
1:09:21that? And then I say
1:09:25What did Jesus say to the woman who
1:09:27committed adultery?
1:09:32So forgiveness
1:09:35is empowered.
1:09:38Not you forgiving anyone for anything.
1:09:43It's for you
1:09:45to liberate yourself
1:09:47and give yourself a gift.
1:09:52Because you don't have godly powers.
1:09:56The judgement
1:09:59is not done by you.
1:10:02You do what's humanly possible and then
1:10:05you hand it over.
1:10:08Are you a Muslim?
1:10:11I'm a Hindu by upbringing.
1:10:14Yes. So you hand it over, you know, to
1:10:19some some
1:10:22some higher power
1:10:24that
1:10:26you limited.
1:10:30So forgiveness is not about people tell
1:10:33me you're such a good person. No, no,
1:10:35I'm selfish. I want to have joy. I want
1:10:39to have passion. This woman
1:10:42didn't know whether she should ever take
1:10:46her husband back.
1:10:49And this is going to be in a dog house
1:10:53because she's using sex as some kind of
1:10:56a trade-off. That's not
1:11:01good thinking.
1:11:03So, I think it's very, very important
1:11:06when we people talk about forgiveness,
1:11:08it's we don't have such powers as
1:11:11humans.
1:11:13But, we don't have to be a prisoner or a
1:11:17hostage of the past.
1:11:20I live in the present. I can only touch
1:11:23you now.
1:11:26I don't forget the past. I don't
1:11:28overcome it.
1:11:31I came to terms with it.
1:11:34There is a big difference.
1:11:37I don't live in Auschwitz.
1:11:41I live in the present.
1:11:43And I think young.
1:11:45But, not young and foolish.
1:11:49So, I'm not smart. I'm wise, hopefully.
1:11:53And the best thing on that is watch the
1:11:55movie Fiddler on the Roof. When that
1:11:58woman knows that her husband needs to
1:12:01feel that he makes all the decisions in
1:12:04a family.
1:12:06And guess who makes the decisions?
1:12:09She doesn't have any ego needs.
1:12:13Yeah. She makes the decisions and makes
1:12:16her husband feels that he makes all the
1:12:19decision. And that's a wise woman.
1:12:26Yeah. I'm sure you're
1:12:27you're married such a woman.
1:12:30Yeah.
1:12:32You have a modern marriage and you work
1:12:35with as a team with each other because
1:12:38the pioneer woman worked alongside with
1:12:41the husband. Women became emotionally
1:12:45and financially
1:12:47dependent on a man.
1:12:50And that's when the wife beating began.
1:12:53So you really have to study patriarchy.
1:12:56Yeah.
1:12:57I I There's a There's a theme, isn't
1:12:59there, when you say if you're a a
1:13:00victim, there's a victimizer.
1:13:03But we can
1:13:05choose to not maintain that dynamic if
1:13:08we want. It's It's
1:13:10Yeah, it's it's so simple, yet so
1:13:13powerful.
1:13:15It takes It takes one to stop it.
1:13:18Yeah.
1:13:19It It You have to victim victimize them
1:13:22and it flip-flops many times in
1:13:24marriage, but it takes one to stop it.
1:13:27So when someone talks to you, you want
1:13:30to ask, "Whose problem is it?"
1:13:34Because when people want to put that
1:13:36monkey on your back, you very gently put
1:13:39it back where it belongs.
1:13:43Yeah. Otherwise, you become a rescuer.
1:13:46Yeah.
1:13:47I mean, on the subjects of
1:13:49couples,
1:13:51there's a line that I I wrote down from
1:13:53the book. Uh when a couple say they
1:13:56never fight,
1:13:58you say that you don't have intimacy,
1:14:02either. And And that stopped me in my
1:14:04tracks, and I wonder if you could just
1:14:05expand upon that, please.
1:14:09First of all,
1:14:11intimacy requires
1:14:14vulnerability.
1:14:17There is no intimacy.
1:14:21And nothing
1:14:23blocks intimacy more
1:14:26than low-level
1:14:28chronic anger.
1:14:34So I tell you what many wives do
1:14:37from my 40 years of experience.
1:14:41She doesn't want to go to bed with him.
1:14:46She really doesn't want to go to bed
1:14:47with him.
1:14:49She's tired.
1:14:52But then she does because she thinks she
1:14:54should.
1:14:56That's what good wives do.
1:14:59And then she resents the fact that she
1:15:01did something that she didn't want to do
1:15:04and she can fluctuate from guilt to
1:15:06resentment.
1:15:09That's not good.
1:15:14It's not good.
1:15:16So you got to really take time out
1:15:20and see
1:15:22how you
1:15:24can find intimacy
1:15:28and have
1:15:32non-sexual intimacy.
1:15:37Because when you say let's go to bed,
1:15:41you may not know what you're really
1:15:43saying.
1:15:45She thinks what you're really saying
1:15:47let's have sex.
1:15:50But you just say, you know, let's go to
1:15:53bed.
1:15:55Well, you need to kind of clear things
1:15:57out sometimes because some people just
1:16:01react
1:16:03rather than
1:16:05really questioning
1:16:07what you really is this true? Is this
1:16:10what I'm you meant? And you say yes or
1:16:13no that you kind of clear things out
1:16:17that what you're saying and what the
1:16:20person is receiving
1:16:22that you're on the same page.
1:16:26Once you have children, many times for
1:16:28many women, the children come first and
1:16:32then the husband.
1:16:34That's not good for the children.
1:16:38The children need to know that mommy and
1:16:40daddy
1:16:41are
1:16:43on the same page.
1:16:46It's not good to spoil your children.
1:16:49They were the first one to die in
1:16:51Auschwitz
1:16:52because poor children are waiting for
1:16:55something to happen from the outside.
1:16:59And nothing happened.
1:17:02And they died.
1:17:05Dependency breeds depression.
1:17:10And my daughter calls it EDism. I give
1:17:13you two.
1:17:16Okay, the opposite of depression is
1:17:18expression. What comes out of your body
1:17:21doesn't make you ill. What stays in
1:17:24there does.
1:17:26The question again is, are you revolving
1:17:30or are you evolving?
1:17:33I usually wear a butterfly uh
1:17:36scarf. I'm not wearing it now. I like
1:17:39the idea of the metamorphosis.
1:17:42And then we shed the chrysalis so we can
1:17:45fly freely like a butterfly.
1:17:49The other questions I ask, when did your
1:17:52childhood end?
1:17:58Because many children have to take care
1:18:00of a sick Mommy
1:18:03or a Daddy who's
1:18:05possibly
1:18:08drinks too much or so on.
1:18:10One more question, would you like to be
1:18:13married to you?
1:18:19That's a great question.
1:18:20You're fun to be around, yeah.
1:18:24Yeah. What was the question just before?
1:18:26When did your childhood end? When did
1:18:28your childhood end? Right. So, someone's
1:18:31listening to this and
1:18:34they find that a powerful question and
1:18:36they reflect and go
1:18:38yeah, actually, you know what? Mine
1:18:39ended when I was 8 years old when I had
1:18:41to do X, Y, and Z.
1:18:44What can they do with that? Because
1:18:46you're you're giving them an awareness,
1:18:49but some people will go, "Okay, I've got
1:18:51the awareness now,
1:18:53but what do I do next?"
1:18:56You go to see someone like Dr. Edith
1:19:00and revisit the places where you've been
1:19:04and find that 8-year-old
1:19:08and speak with the 8-year-old on the
1:19:10language of an 8-year-old.
1:19:13Yeah.
1:19:14So, they can feel that feeling of
1:19:16powerlessness,
1:19:19so they had to give up their true self
1:19:22to fit that family dynamics.
1:19:27And someone who can hold your hand
1:19:30and get you through that
1:19:33that no matter what happened, you made
1:19:36it.
1:19:37So, the question is not why me, but what
1:19:40now?
1:19:41But it's okay to say why me. It's okay
1:19:45to grieve because you have to go through
1:19:47the rage. You don't cover garlic with
1:19:50chocolate.
1:19:52Is rage good? Can rage be part of the
1:19:55healing process?
1:19:57You can't heal what you don't feel.
1:20:02So, don't medicate grieve.
1:20:05It's a natural reaction to a loss and
1:20:08don't minimize it or trivialize it.
1:20:15Yeah.
1:20:17So,
1:20:19you feel
1:20:21that rage,
1:20:24but don't get addicted to it.
1:20:27Don't get stuck in there.
1:20:30Some people are totally chronically
1:20:33angry.
1:20:35But there are other emotions under
1:20:38anger.
1:20:39A lot of pain. I see a lot of pain, a
1:20:43lot of frustration and pain feeling and
1:20:46of course most most of all anger is not
1:20:50a primary emotion.
1:20:53Underneath of anger
1:20:55I find a lot of fear.
1:20:58Yeah.
1:20:59And you can write down all your fears.
1:21:02Remember you weren't born with it, you
1:21:04learned it.
1:21:06And then you can get rid of it with a
1:21:09positive reinforcement. For one negative
1:21:12you can write down five positive. You
1:21:15know, you can do you know, you don't
1:21:17have to go for years and years to
1:21:19therapy not at all. You can be flexible
1:21:23rather than rigid. You stop blaming and
1:21:26you become very responsible and I say a
1:21:30thing that you
1:21:32and
1:21:33acknowledge that when you're a survivor
1:21:37you also
1:21:39not
1:21:41thinking
1:21:43anything other than setting good
1:21:45boundaries with people because you got
1:21:49to accept limitations
1:21:51and boundaries.
1:21:53And uh
1:21:55and you have to give up a need for
1:21:57revenge
1:21:58because while you are having a revenge
1:22:02um
1:22:04you're you're you're
1:22:07you're very punitive and very vengeful
1:22:10and it's not going to give you the
1:22:12spiritual freedom
1:22:14that forgiveness does. Yeah.
1:22:18And then look, I want to be very
1:22:19respectful of your time. Um
1:22:21you
1:22:23you
1:22:24you know I really have had shivers on
1:22:26many
1:22:27occasions during our conversation. I
1:22:29think
1:22:31what you've been through, what you're
1:22:33now sharing with us
1:22:35has so much value to all of us and I
1:22:38really will take from this that it's
1:22:42if she can do it, so can I. You know, I
1:22:45want everyone who's listening to this,
1:22:46if she can do it, so can I. I think it's
1:22:48a wonderful, wonderful
1:22:51um
1:22:52sentiment. I I got to say I I can't
1:22:56recommend your book The Gift more. I
1:22:58think it's essential reading for
1:22:59everyone. I think it's I think it's a
1:23:01gift that will keep on giving because
1:23:03you'll come back to it as I do at
1:23:05various times on difficult mornings,
1:23:07when different things are going on in my
1:23:09life
1:23:10and the phrases have slightly different
1:23:12relevance. And
1:23:15oh, or something happened yesterday
1:23:16where I got triggered. Oh, that's a nice
1:23:18little reminder. And so I really think
1:23:20it's one of those books that people can
1:23:21dip in and out of
1:23:23and I think it's a wonderful wonderful
1:23:25gift to the world. Um
1:23:28Edith, I would have My dream would have
1:23:30been to have done this face-to-face. You
1:23:31know, until the pandemic, I did all my
1:23:33conversations face-to-face. I'd come to
1:23:35LA twice a year
1:23:37do face-to-face conversations. I very
1:23:39much hope
1:23:40at some point in the future if things do
1:23:42return where people can travel and
1:23:45visit, I would it would be an honor to
1:23:47meet you face-to-face one day and
1:23:48continue this conversation.
1:23:51Um but
1:23:53I love to have you in my home. I love
1:23:57you to meet my assistant, precious Katie
1:24:00and uh and to be always
1:24:03solution-oriented
1:24:04rather than problem-oriented
1:24:07and uh not to blame, but to be
1:24:10responsible
1:24:12for what we're thinking, feeling
1:24:15and behaving. You're a wonderful role
1:24:18model. I um
1:24:21I love to
1:24:22see you in my kitchen cooking some
1:24:26Indian food. That's a deal. That's a
1:24:29deal. I will come to your kitchen. I
1:24:30will cook you something
1:24:33when this is all over. But just to
1:24:35finish off Edith, for people listening
1:24:36now, for someone who's struggling in
1:24:39their life, who feels they can't see a
1:24:41way out,
1:24:43have you got any closing words that
1:24:46people can use as inspiration
1:24:48to take them on in their lives?
1:24:52Just a little mantra. Yes, I am. Yes, I
1:24:56can. Yes, I will.
1:24:58Yes, I am. Yes, I can.
1:25:01Because it is temporary what you're
1:25:03going through.
1:25:06So, you have a choice.
1:25:09You have a choice. Embrace that feeling.
1:25:13Invite that feeling in. I hope my book
1:25:16is going to be in a hospital.
1:25:19And there are no crisis. They're only
1:25:22transitions.
1:25:23There are no problems. They're only
1:25:26challenges.
1:25:28Edith,
1:25:29it has been my absolute honor to have
1:25:33almost two hours with you today. Thank
1:25:35you so much, and I really really look
1:25:38forward to next time we get to talk in
1:25:40person in your kitchen.
1:25:43Namaste. Namaste. Namaste.
1:25:48I imagine that conversation moved you as
1:25:50much as it moved me.
1:25:53As you can see, I didn't get a chance to
1:25:55meet Edith face-to-face. That was done
1:25:57remotely.
1:25:59But a few weeks ago, I did. Edith was
1:26:02hosting an event in San Diego. I went
1:26:05and spoke on stage.
1:26:07And straight afterwards,
1:26:09I had a few minutes face-to-face with
1:26:11her to talk.
1:26:13And this is what she had to say.
1:26:15Edith, you you've shared so many
1:26:18powerful messages with the words. Yeah.
1:26:23If there was only one message that you
1:26:25could leave with people
1:26:27out of all of your messages, what is the
1:26:29most important message that we all need
1:26:31to be happy?
1:26:33Meet your genuine self. Do you want to
1:26:36know
1:26:39what you have picked up in your lifetime
1:26:43to where you are in the present.
1:26:46But you don't live in the past.
1:26:48You live in the present. I can only
1:26:50touch you now.
1:26:52And so it
1:26:54it's uh
1:26:56Think about your thinking. Yeah. That's
1:27:00a good message. Yeah.
1:27:02Don't say what you don't want.
1:27:05Just concentrate on the do's and the
1:27:08yeses
1:27:10rather than don't and no.
1:27:13Yeah.
1:27:15Edith, in in the world today, many
1:27:18people are thinking about
1:27:20living longer and they're thinking about
1:27:22longevity and how can I live maybe
1:27:24forever? Yeah.
1:27:27You're 97 years old now.
1:27:31How do you think about life and death?
1:27:34The best with your limitations.
1:27:38You and we are not limitless.
1:27:42At 97
1:27:44uh
1:27:46I don't do all that many high kicks.
1:27:52Um
1:27:53but I do the best I can. Uh
1:27:59to be genuine.
1:28:01I think it's good for us
1:28:03to have a good mind and a warm heart.
1:28:08Yeah.
1:28:09Edith, as I mentioned on stage, you've
1:28:11touched my life so much. It's such an
1:28:14honor
1:28:16to meet you in person. Like it really is
1:28:18my
1:28:20My family know how much you've meant to
1:28:22me. My audience, my readers, you're
1:28:26You're in both of my last two books. I
1:28:28talk about you in my book on happiness
1:28:30and in my new book. That's how much of
1:28:32an impact you've had on me and I I just
1:28:34want to say a big thank you.
1:28:38Thank you so much.
1:28:39Thank you. Thank you.
1:28:41Yeah.
1:28:43You're a big boy.
1:28:45You're a big beautiful boy.
1:28:50I like to see your picture when you were
1:28:52very young.
1:28:54Were you tall in our class?
1:28:57I
1:28:57Were you tallest in our class? I think
1:28:59maybe only when I was 15 or 16. I wasn't
1:29:02tall before then.
1:29:04And then I shot up. Yeah.
1:29:06But I've been afraid of my height for
1:29:08years
1:29:09because it made me stand out.
1:29:12And now I'm very happy to be tall. I'm
1:29:14happy to
1:29:15be myself, basically. I think it was
1:29:18Rollo May who said the opposite of love
1:29:22is not hate, but fear.
1:29:27So it's good to write down all your
1:29:29fears.
1:29:31Yeah. And I think that would be good
1:29:34to know
1:29:36not what comes out of you
1:29:38so much, but what you're still keeping
1:29:41inside. And uh
1:29:46It's It's good to be a good therapist to
1:29:50yourself. Yeah. And see how you can
1:29:54not just
1:29:56take care of others Yeah.
1:29:58and thinking that you're selfish when
1:30:00you don't. Yeah. It's So maybe you and I
1:30:03can work together. We can work together
1:30:07very well. We could do the grand rounds
1:30:09together. Oh, I'd love to do a grand
1:30:11rounds with you. So, you do the work and
1:30:14I'll show up. Uh
1:30:17Well, Edith, thank you. Thank you for
1:30:18putting on this event and thank you for
1:30:21everything that you do. I I truly
1:30:23appreciate it. If you enjoyed that
1:30:25conversation, then I think you will
1:30:27really going to enjoy this one. Start
1:30:29loving your life.
1:30:31Start loving yourself. The
1:30:34very essence of love is healing.
1:30:38True healing,
1:30:40true healing of our beings
1:30:43is love.

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