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$80M Investor: You Have 5 Years Left To Get Rich — Transcript

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0:00When I made [music] the trade, I almost
0:01threw off. I was losing insane amounts
0:03of money every week.
0:04>> Did you make a million dollars during co
0:06>> I made
0:07>> Chris Camino turned $20,000 into $80
0:09million by spotting trading
0:11opportunities hiding in plain sight.
0:12Today, nearly 400,000 people on Twitter
0:15follow his every move.
0:16>> So, what does Chris see that the rest of
0:17us miss?
0:18>> Hey, can you learn to see it, too?
0:19>> I've traded every shoe trend that's ever
0:21happened, and I've nailed almost every
0:23one of them.
0:23>> So, you're saying someone that's
0:24starting with $1,000 could potentially
0:27replicate what you did?
0:28>> Yeah. my competition has like increased,
0:31but most of that is just her mentality.
0:33If you just become an investor, you've
0:36already won.
0:36>> There's a secret stock that you haven't
0:38talked about publicly.
0:40>> So,
0:42so we talked a little bit before we sat
0:45down and there's a secret stock that you
0:48haven't talked about publicly that
0:51you're doing a deep research on right
0:52now. and we sealed up that envelope
0:56right there and we put the ticker and
0:58company name in there. And you're going
1:00to tell us in just a little bit about
1:01why you think that could be another huge
1:03play. And I know you just had a huge
1:05play on Amazon. So, congrats there. But
1:08I want to start before we get there with
1:09you turned roughly $20,000
1:12into more than $80 million by finding
1:16information on your phone that Wall
1:18Street missed.
1:20Explain to me how you did that. like I'm
1:23five years old.
1:25>> Yeah, it probably started a bit before I
1:27had a phone. I don't know, 2007 is when
1:30the journey started. There was Was the
1:32iPhone around back then? I don't even
1:34remember.
1:35>> It may have just been coming out.
1:36[laughter] iPhone 1 or two maybe.
1:39>> Yeah. Back
1:39>> 2003 or four maybe.
1:41>> Back then a lot of what I did was
1:44offline or if it was online it was like
1:47Facebook on a on a computer, right?
1:51>> [laughter]
1:51>> It's like going way back. Um,
1:56it's just observational investing,
1:58right? So, it's this thing I discovered
2:00when I was a kid, uh, just by pure
2:04random chance walking into a 7-Eleven,
2:06buying a Snapple lemon flavored iced tea
2:10like I did every morning. And they had
2:13sold out of them. And the reason they
2:16sold out of them is because they only
2:18had like half of one refrigerator door
2:21of Snapple where they had always had two
2:23full refrigerators. So there was a lot
2:26of new competition that was coming into
2:29play. I think like maybe Arizona Ice Tea
2:31and others. Talked to the clerk about
2:33it. My older brother was a stock broker.
2:36I said, "Hey, this has got to be bad for
2:38Snapple. Can you teach me how to make
2:40money off of this?" He taught me how to
2:42short Snapple with puts. their earnings
2:44was just a few weeks away. I gave them
2:47all the money I had in the world, which
2:48was $300, which I had made from, you
2:52know, buying and selling items at garage
2:54sales, which is what I did when I was a
2:56kid, like Gary Vee style. Uh, and he
3:00bought puts on Snapple in his account
3:03for me. And it was the first quarter
3:06that they ever had bad earnings cuz
3:07inventory was building up because
3:09retailers like 7-Eleven were introducing
3:12new competitive products. And I was
3:14like, "This is crazy. I tripled my money
3:16in a few weeks." And I was immediately
3:19hooked uh with investing. You know,
3:22ironically, like I didn't realize that
3:24what I had discovered was going to be
3:26the strategy I'd be using as an adult
3:29because I ended up reading like every
3:31book that had ever been written on
3:32investing. and I got really into it and
3:34I basically did nothing but lose money
3:36year after year after year, [laughter]
3:37right? Um, doing everything but
3:40observational investing cuz like who
3:42would think as like a teenager that you
3:45would have, you know, an optimal
3:49methodology for investing more so than
3:52professionals have. It didn't make any
3:55sense. But if you think about it,
3:57anybody could have seen what I saw at
3:597-Eleven. So like why did the stock move
4:02down so much? Like why did professionals
4:06why did hedge fund managers not have
4:08that alpha like just by going to the
4:11store?
4:13And you know I've come to realize over
4:14the last few decades that the market is
4:17actually meaningfully inefficient uh
4:20when it comes to so many things. And
4:22still today in 2026,
4:24there are just massive opportunities
4:28to observe really simple things
4:32that surface alpha in the market that no
4:36one else is seeing because so many
4:39investors, institutional and retail, are
4:43completely consumed with noise. They're
4:47talking about the Fed. They're talking
4:49about interest rates, the Iran war, what
4:52is Trump going to say? Everybody's
4:54focused on the same 20 companies. You
4:58know what I'm saying? So, it's like,
5:00it's crazy to me that it's 2026
5:04and yet the market is just so distracted
5:08still. And it's still really easy for
5:11someone who's willing to be an
5:12independent thinker and actually do a
5:15little bit of real work and research
5:18[laughter] And like in my case, like
5:21observe the world and try to connect
5:23dots quicker than others to investable
5:25opportunities that somebody can do that
5:28just as a regular person. But you if I
5:32like tell you one thing, it's that you
5:34absolutely can. And this is like this is
5:36actually my biggest debate with people.
5:38They're like, "It's not that easy,
5:39Chris. Not everybody can do what you
5:41do." I'm like, "Dude,
5:43there are now hundreds of thousands of
5:45people that do this, observational
5:46investors in my community alone,
5:49and they're all doing it." Like, a lot
5:51of them are at this point, some of them
5:53are making way better returns than me
5:55doing it. And they're like plumbers,
5:57they're UPS drivers, they're dentists,
6:00they're homemakers, they're retirees.
6:03Some of them are high school kids, you
6:05know, high school, college kids. uh
6:07they're just going around observing the
6:09world looking for shifts in culture,
6:12shifts in consumer behavior, uh
6:15connecting dots on trends like who would
6:18benefit, who's going to be harmed by
6:20this trend, and then they're making
6:22investments purely based on that and
6:24winning. So like it's just it's a thing.
6:27So, you're saying someone that's
6:29starting out today with $1,000 could
6:31potentially realistically replicate what
6:34you did and in some cases beat your
6:37returns. When I think about this myself,
6:40I think about, well, you know, when I
6:42started getting Amazon packages at my
6:44house, I was like, wow, I don't have to
6:46go anywhere anymore. Oh, now I can get
6:48groceries. I I can I can just get
6:50everything from Amazon. Or like when I
6:52first was in a Tesla and it was driving
6:54itself, I was like, well, this is I
6:56don't want to drive. This is amazing.
6:57It's driving for me. Are those the type
6:59of observational things that you're
7:02looking for? Is it a little bit deeper
7:03with the research?
7:05>> Yeah. What you said and like a thousand
7:07other things just like that. Yeah. Is
7:09there are there other things you need to
7:12do or you should be doing as part of
7:14your trade strategy? Absolutely.
7:17um you know you find something that you
7:20think is really a gamecher like wow the
7:23first time you got in a Tesla like
7:25you're saying or some new product that
7:28is just trending so hard uh you have to
7:31ask yourself you know is there a
7:34publicly traded company that this will
7:36move the needle for right because it
7:39might be part of a diversified company
7:42and it might only be like onetenth of 1%
7:45of that company's sales
7:47Like when that fancy bottled water went
7:50viral a year ago cuz that Tik Tok guy,
7:54>> do you know what I'm talking about? He
7:55go, "Come [laughter] on, dude. Come on."
7:57He he gets up at like 5 in the morning.
7:59He dunks his head in a bowl of ice.
8:02You'll have to put it on the screen. But
8:03but but that water went super viral. And
8:06everybody was hitting me up. They're
8:07like, "Chris, is this a is this a social
8:09trade? Is this an observational trade?"
8:11>> I was like, "Well, let's see who owns
8:13that water." And the company that owned
8:16that brand of water owned so many other
8:20things and so many other bigger brands
8:21of water that even if they were to
8:24double triple sales of that water
8:26because of this hyperviral Tik Tok, you
8:28know, content,
8:31it was never going to move the needle
8:33for this company. So you have to
8:35understand, is it going to move the
8:37revenue needle? Is it going to move the
8:39perception needle? Is it going to move
8:41the you know the cost needle for this
8:45for any publicly traded company? And
8:47that's the first thing that you have to
8:49answer. Then you have to say okay if it
8:52is a needle mover if it is a gamecher
8:54for a publicly traded company. To what
8:57degree do other investors already know
9:00about it? That's that's really important
9:03obviously.
9:03>> But how do you figure that out?
9:05>> So how do you figure it out? You go to
9:07where other investors are. Where are
9:10other investors, right? Institutional
9:12investors talk about what they know
9:15through reports, sellside reports that
9:18banks issue, um, interviews, you know,
9:22CNBC even. Uh, a lot of them have
9:27private reports that you can try to get
9:29your hands on. Uh, a lot of them will
9:32talk about what they know, uh, during
9:34the Q&A session of an earnings call that
9:36everyone has access to. Uh then when you
9:39go down the line to retail investors,
9:41they're everywhere, right? They're on X,
9:43they're on Stock Twits, uh they are, you
9:47know, writing stuff on Seek and Alpha,
9:50they're on all these forums. So you have
9:53to see what they're writing about as it
9:56relates to that particular company or
9:58stock. Do they already know about this
10:00thing? Because if they know about it,
10:02they're writing about it and they're
10:03talking about it on YouTube, right?
10:06maybe even on Tik Tok or or on X. So,
10:09you just have to assess to what degree
10:13do other investors already know about
10:16this thing or truly appreciate how big
10:18of a deal this thing is going to be for
10:20this company. So, once you determine
10:23that it's a needle mover and that it
10:26hasn't been fully saturated in terms of
10:28that information amongst other
10:31investors.
10:33And then the third last thing you have
10:34to figure out is is there something else
10:38happening at or to that company that is
10:43more important than this thing that you
10:46found during the time frame of your
10:49trade, right? And if there's not, you
10:51might you might have something big. Uh,
10:55and then you're you're really the last
10:56thing that you have to do is you have to
10:58figure out when do I think other people
11:01are going to find out about this. Are
11:03they likely to find out about this?
11:05Because, you know, the trade revolves
11:09around a movie that I think is going to
11:11be a hit that's going to positively
11:14impact maybe the product that the
11:16movie's about. That was my Barbie trade.
11:18Or maybe the studio. Uh that was my uh
11:22Lionsgate trade back in the day with
11:24Hunger Games and Lionsgate was a
11:26publicly traded company. Like maybe then
11:28it's the release date of the movie. Uh
11:31if it's a product that you know hedge
11:35funds can track like at a big retail
11:37store, you know that hedge funds buy
11:40institutional
11:41credit card transaction data. So weeks
11:45before earnings come out, they usually
11:47have a print of people buying more or
11:51less of that company's product. So maybe
11:54you can make an assessment. They'll
11:56probably know about this within a few
11:57weeks of earnings. And if not, usually
12:00information will come out on an earnings
12:02call because that's when the rubber
12:04meets the road, right? If there's
12:06something positively impacting the
12:07company, it shows up on revenue that's
12:09unexpected.
12:11Also, the management team, they'll do
12:14I've literally been on thousands of
12:16these calls, right? They'll say, "Hey,
12:19the quarter was a huge beat because of
12:22this, and you just nailed it cuz you
12:24knew what this was before anyone else."
12:29And if you think about it,
12:32if you go through all the major earnings
12:35beats and misses through the years, you
12:39can backtrack,
12:41not all of them, but backtrack a lot of
12:45them to a moment in time when that thing
12:49that drove the company to beat or miss
12:52earnings earlier in the quarter
12:54materialized. that you as an investor if
12:58you knew where to look and what to look
13:01for you could have potentially found it.
13:04So like I tell investors the best way to
13:07be an observational investor is anytime
13:09you see like a big earnings report where
13:12a stock jumps or falls meaningfully
13:16was it due to one thing and if it was
13:19try to assess
13:22was there potential for me to identify
13:24that thing early or not and you have to
13:28just get in the rhythm of looking for
13:31these things all the time but yeah it's
13:34just it's the process, but it's a
13:36process that anyone can do. Like you
13:38don't need to be like this pedigreed
13:43Harvard, Stanford, Wharton grad who's
13:47like a 10 of 10 financial analyst. Like
13:50you don't need to be that person and you
13:54don't need to be a math wiz. This is not
13:56about technical trading. This is not
13:58about understanding algorithms
14:00truthfully. Like you just have to be a
14:03good investigative journalist
14:05>> like or you have to be I don't know like
14:09um
14:09>> a private investigator.
14:10>> A private investigator, right? Like I
14:13think like a private investigator or an
14:15investigative journalist would be like
14:17the ideal person that would have this
14:20mindset. Of course, you know, a lot of
14:24this alpha, a lot of these trades,
14:28the ideas for them were just surfaced
14:32from real life. So, people that just
14:35naturally
14:37have their feet like planted deeply in
14:40culture and real life and that are
14:42living and like you're reading the
14:45socials every day. You're seeing what's
14:48trending. you understand how culture is
14:50shifting. When there's a hot product,
14:53you're seeing it on your feed, right?
14:56That's like ordinary people. Those are
14:59the people that are like best position
15:02to actually surface change in the world
15:05as it's happening because they're
15:07observing the world organically just
15:11over the course of their life. So like
15:13the only different thing you have to do
15:16is train your mind that when you see
15:18something to to like stop for a second
15:21and say, "Hey, could this potentially be
15:24impactful to a company?" And then start
15:27the process of trying to connect the
15:28dots. And that's where it's been that's
15:31where like today is the easiest time
15:34ever to be an observational investor
15:36because that used to be the hardest
15:38part. That used to be the part where you
15:40kind of had to be a smart person to try
15:42to connect all these dots and like is to
15:45what extent is this going to impact that
15:47company. You don't even have to do that
15:49work anymore as long as you have chat
15:52chat GBT, right? Like like all you need
15:55to do once you find something is just
15:58literally speak into chat GPT or Claude
16:01or Grock or your favorite LLM. Hey,
16:05I just saw this thing. Could you
16:07validate that what I'm seeing is real?
16:09How big it is? Are there any publicly
16:12traded companies that this would
16:14meaningfully impact positively or
16:16negative? Uh help me deeply research
16:21that. Uh and then help me deeply assess
16:25the degree to which institutional andor
16:28retail investors already know about this
16:30thing. then help me deeply assess
16:33whether there's something else happening
16:35at this company right now that could be
16:36more important than this because that
16:37would mean that the thing I found maybe
16:40isn't so important right to trade but
16:44like AI will do all the hard work for
16:47you in fact a lot of people are using AI
16:49to even surface the change like I'm
16:51going to be out of a job soon like with
16:53quickly AI is moving so this is almost
16:56like the last frontier to be like in in
17:00observation ational investor where
17:02there's tons of alpha that as a human
17:04you could still put the pieces together
17:06and like make ungodly amounts of money
17:10just from having your eyes open and
17:12trying.
17:12>> I wrote it down. Four-step framework. So
17:14if anyone's watching out there, number
17:16one is just observe. You know, you're
17:18looking at your Tik Tok feed, you're
17:20looking at Instagram, you're watching
17:21YouTube videos, you're living your life.
17:23>> Live your life.
17:23>> Live your life. And you're you're you're
17:25taking notice of things. And then you're
17:27starting, huh, that's interesting. this
17:29this this happened or this came up or I
17:30saw this then you're trying to relate
17:32that back to a publicly traded company
17:34and if you can then you need to
17:36understand how big of an opportunity is
17:39that for that company right is that
17:41information priced in again all of these
17:43things you can find on your favorite LLM
17:46you know are there other more important
17:48catalysts you know is there an earnings
17:50report or something big that's coming up
17:52where this information could surface and
17:54you know then you're trying to decide I
17:56guess timing and maybe your risk profile
17:57how much do I want to put into this.
17:59What's my risk profile? Am I buying the
18:00stock? Am I buying options potentially?
18:02But it seems like what you're saying is
18:05the everyday person can do, but they
18:07have to do a little homework.
18:09>> Got to do a little homework, right? Just
18:11a little bit. [laughter]
18:14Nothing in life comes completely free,
18:16>> right?
18:17>> But of all the ways to try to grind and
18:20make money,
18:23>> there's nothing easier, man. Like it's
18:25actually so insane to me that every
18:29human on earth is not doing this.
18:31>> You don't think you're special and your
18:33mind is built for this and the average
18:35person out there is like going to not be
18:38able to do it on the level that you're
18:39doing it or do you think anyone that
18:41puts in enough time, effort, research
18:43can do what you've done?
18:45>> Listen, I I've always been like a hyper
18:48resourceful
18:50grinder type, right? like like I'm out
18:53there doing things that other people are
18:55just not willing to do. I'm always
18:57looking for opportunity in life. And I
19:00do think that when I started doing this
19:02back in 2007
19:04that it would have been meaningfully
19:05tough for just the average person to do
19:07what I was doing because it it took a
19:09lot more work.
19:12But in 2026 in a digital world,
19:16basically
19:18every facet of change that's happening
19:21in the world is reflected on social
19:23media in real time and it's free out
19:26there for anyone to decipher. So what do
19:30we do as humans before we change the way
19:33that we live? Before we change the
19:35things that we buy or the things we wear
19:38or what we do or what we spend our money
19:40on, where we spend our time, we talk
19:44about it. We talk about it. Um, we might
19:48talk about it in person less and less
19:50these days, but certainly a meaningful
19:55part of humanity is having those
19:57conversations on Tik Tok, on X, on other
20:01social platforms. So all the information
20:05is out there. You just have to like be
20:07part of the conversation and read what
20:10people are talking about every day. So
20:12yeah, I mean it's it's it's never been
20:14easier. And then now we have AI to do
20:16all the hard work for you after that.
20:19And now we have like Robin Hood and like
20:22broker apps that anybody can use with
20:26free trading. I mean like all the pieces
20:28are there. They're all there. On top of
20:31that,
20:33back when I was doing this, it wasn't
20:35cool to be like a young kid investor.
20:38Like there were no no young guys that
20:40were like investing like that. That
20:42wasn't a thing. Now it's the coolest
20:44thing in the world. So like you don't
20:46even have the cultural like hurdle to
20:50deal with. Like this is what all these
20:53young guys talk about. Like constantly
20:54I'm getting hit up by 17year-old,
20:5719year-olds, college guys. They're all
20:59trading now. A lot of them are trading
21:01stupid stuff, right? They're trading
21:03meme stocks. Not that crypto is stupid,
21:06but they're tra I mean, they're trading
21:07coins. They're trading all this stuff,
21:09right? And I I'm like, God, guys, I
21:10mean, I get it. They're trying to make a
21:12100x their money very quickly. Uh,
21:15sometimes I think they feel that they
21:17understand crypto better than equities.
21:19I don't know why. I mean, like, they
21:21should all be trading equities, I think.
21:23But there's never been an easier time
21:26for this,
21:27>> guys. We've been so passionate about
21:29finding the biggest geniuses and this is
21:31just one of the many episodes. If you
21:32want to make sure you don't miss the
21:34next one, make sure to subscribe. All
21:35right, let's get back to the episode. To
21:37the people out there listening, let's
21:39just give some quick background on Chris
21:41because there might be some people out
21:42there like 20,000 into 80 million. This
21:44is all hype. This is nonsense. But if
21:46I'm not mistaken, there was a tool
21:47called Covester that tracked and audited
21:50your trades in, you know, in your
21:52brokerage account. And you were the
21:53number one trader in the world
21:55>> for a while. I was the number one trader
21:57on co-vester and I got some publicity
22:00for it which was cool. I got I got to go
22:03on like Fox Business and did some stuff
22:06and then I got offered a book deal and I
22:09wrote a book came out in 2010. Hardest
22:12thing I've ever done in my life preai.
22:14So I had no one to help me. Okay. It was
22:16just me [laughter]
22:17at me at Starbucks staring at the
22:20ceiling. No joke. some days, two days in
22:24a row without writing a single word and
22:27then I would like hammer down a bunch of
22:29awards for a bit. But like it took me a
22:32year to write that book, laughing at
22:33Wall Street. And it's a book about my
22:34life, about how I got started investing.
22:36It's very personal to me. And I, you
22:39know, at the time it was a great
22:41representation of what social arb
22:43investing or observational investing
22:44was. Um, since then there are other
22:48books that have kind of referenced what
22:49I do that I think are better because the
22:52times have changed. But no, there have
22:54been multiple audits. Um, in fact, that
22:57one book that uh came out, Unknown
22:59Market Wizards, Jack Schwagger, he's
23:00like an iconic uh maybe the most iconic
23:04writer uh detailing the best investors
23:08over the past 30 or 40 years, mostly
23:10hedge fun guys. when he did unknown
23:12market wizards, he picked I think like
23:14five of the best equity traders he was
23:17able to find and he spent years looking
23:19for them and I was very fortunate to be
23:20one of the five and he goes through a
23:23very deep audit process. So he gets in
23:25your brokerage statements and he, you
23:27know, he does a full audit or account
23:29review. And then on top of that, uh,
23:31Business Insider,
23:33I don't know, maybe it was like 2021,
23:362022
23:38took like five months to audit me before
23:40they would publish an article about me.
23:42So they also did an audit, then they
23:44hired a third party to do another audit
23:46cuz like they didn't believe that the
23:49returns are what they were. [laughter]
23:51And I get it. I listen, I I get it. Like
23:53I'm so skeptical. I I'm I was skeptical
23:56myself. Like back in 2010, I was only 3
23:59years in when I got my book deal. And
24:02there was part of me that was like maybe
24:04I'm just an edgec case scenario, like
24:07survivorship bias. Cuz if you have
24:09enough people trading, millions, tens,
24:11hundreds of millions, some people just
24:14by sheer chance are going to be
24:17outliers. The the difference is like I
24:20had this methodology that wasn't a black
24:22box. It was super intuitive. You explain
24:25like I just explained it to you. You
24:27find something early, you connect the
24:29dots, they come out an earnings call.
24:31They're like, "Hey, earnings are up
24:32because of that thing that you found.
24:34There's no freaking debate, okay?
24:36There's no debating that you found that
24:39thing, made the investment, then the
24:41company did good, said we did good
24:44because of the thing that I found or
24:46whatever.
24:48That's not chance, right? That's not
24:50like outlier bias. So, but there was a
24:53point where I didn't even believe
24:54myself. And like to this day, like I
24:57have a hard time believing other
24:59investors when they come out and say,
25:00"Here are my returns." Cuz dude, this
25:03space is so littered with shady people
25:07that are in it for themselves.
25:09They're trying to make money selling
25:11stuff to other people so they have to
25:13claim to be great. There's just been so
25:16much proven fraud out there in in this
25:18whole finance space that I understand
25:21why people are skeptical of me. But I
25:22don't I mean I don't sell anything. I
25:24don't have courses.
25:24>> That's the thing that's interesting
25:25interesting about you which is you don't
25:27have a course. You don't have a trading
25:29software. You don't have a mastermind
25:30group.
25:31>> No, I just I just did some master class
25:34for free only because they agreed to
25:36give it away for free, you know. So it's
25:38like I don't have I don't even take
25:39sponsorships ever. Like I went through
25:42all co with like all the big sponsorship
25:45deals that they were offering to finance
25:48YouTubers and like never took one of
25:50them.
25:51>> Why is that? Why didn't you take that?
25:52That could be more money you could be
25:53using to invest.
25:54>> I I just it just didn't feel right to me
25:58for a number of reasons. It just felt
26:00like it wasn't part of who something
26:02that I wanted to be part of because like
26:05I didn't see myself as like a
26:07professional content creator. I I was
26:10just an investor that wanted to share my
26:12stuff through content. So like it felt
26:15weird that I was going to then start
26:16monetizing my content in other ways. So
26:21and then also I I don't like to be
26:23handcuffed to anyone or anything. So as
26:26dumb as it is, I don't want someone
26:28telling me what I have to say. Like I
26:30don't I just want to say whatever the
26:31hell I want to say, right? I just I just
26:33don't it just felt dirty and it just
26:35didn't felt right for me. Um,
26:39but and then also listen like I make an
26:42insane amount of money indirectly off my
26:45community because now the dumb money
26:49community, you know, the dumb money live
26:51community is so good at observational
26:53investing.
26:54>> So you're getting ideas from your
26:56community.
26:56>> I'm getting I get more than half of my
26:58ideas from my community. No way. Now you
27:00got to realize this is a group effort.
27:03So they share stuff with me, I share
27:06stuff with them, I poke holes in what
27:09they find, they poke holes in what I
27:11find. I'm not like a magician, man. I'm
27:13just a normal guy that was the first
27:16person in the world to do this back in
27:172007. Believe me, there are people that
27:22are smarter than me, that are more
27:24resourceful than me, that have more time
27:26than me, that are hungrier than me cuz,
27:30you know, I've made it. So like that are
27:32out there doing what I do better than I
27:36do it today. And thank goodness they
27:40feel a sense of gratitude to me to want
27:43to connect with me and share the ideas
27:45with me. And like I love it and they
27:47know that almost all my profits go to my
27:49foundation anyway. So I have noble
27:52causes. So everybody wins when we all
27:55win. They win, my foundation wins.
27:59But for me, it's all it's always been
28:02about community because like I've been
28:05doing this since I was a kid, way before
28:07it was cool to be trading stocks and I
28:10never had a community. I never had
28:12people that I could relate to. Even when
28:14like, you know, like self the
28:17self-directed investor movement started
28:20in like the 2000s when Erade, you know,
28:24came up as a company and all of a sudden
28:26we had discount brokerages cuz it used
28:28to be like 3%. I don't think like any of
28:32these young kid investors understand
28:34this.
28:35When I was really young,
28:38it would cost 3%
28:41Yeah, I think like two to 3% of whatever
28:45you were investing to buy a stock and
28:47then another two to 3% to sell it. So
28:50you're talking about 5% round trip just
28:53to buy and sell a stock. And by the way,
28:55you're on a phone with a guy, right?
28:58It was nuts, man. Now you can trade
29:01stocks for free. But like even when I
29:04was like even when that movement got
29:06started, everyone was either a
29:08fundamental investor or a technical
29:10investor and mostly technical. So like
29:13anytime I go to investment conference,
29:16those aren't my people. I love them.
29:18They're nice guys, but like that's not
29:19I'm not a chartist, you know, like I
29:21don't want to look at that stuff. I
29:22don't want to talk about it. I hate
29:24technical investing. Like it's just not
29:27it's not my vibe at all and and I don't
29:29enjoy it. So,
29:32I always wanted to have like people that
29:34thought like me, that invested like me,
29:36that I could like have like some back
29:39and forth with. And it took me getting
29:41on, well, it took me writing a book,
29:44being on YouTube for seven years,
29:46whatever, however long it's been, and
29:49doing like dozens and dozens of these
29:52podcast to eventually start to build a
29:56community of people that are now doing
29:58this, too. And I I love every second of
30:01it, man. It is the the coolest thing in
30:03the world to have all these people that
30:05love to invest the way I do.
30:07>> You seem like such a humble guy. And
30:09when I think of a trader, someone that
30:12in their mind is like, look, I'm going
30:13to go beat the market, which I think as
30:15we know it's really hard in aggregate to
30:18consistently over decades beat the
30:20market. I think I would think of those
30:22people as, you know, having a big ego
30:25and just like they think of themselves
30:27even like like a god because they can
30:28beat the market which is almost
30:30impossible to do consistently. But
30:32you're you're just it seems like you're
30:34different.
30:35>> I just I know how I did it and so like I
30:39said the methodology is super intuitive
30:43and
30:44I know that like it's not because I'm
30:47that special. I just happened to be at
30:50the right time, the right place. I I
30:52figured it out. And by the way, listen,
30:55I'm a guy that has a thousand f failures
30:58in every aspect of my life. But I'm
31:00constantly trying. I'm constantly like I
31:02was that kid that had a different
31:04business idea every 15 minutes. Like
31:07horrible ideas left and right. It's
31:09horrible ideas. Um just a million
31:13failures, right? So I think the reason I
31:18I think about this quite often actually
31:20the there is a you know there's a
31:22reasonable chance that I could have just
31:25never have found this methodology
31:27and also been a failure in the couple
31:29other areas of my life where I hit it
31:31big and I'd just be a fail a straight
31:34failure all around. And I read a I read
31:37a I read a quote like a philosopher
31:40quote one time about how we give
31:44virtually zero admiration or respect to
31:49all the world's scientists, all the
31:52world's artist, musicians,
31:55all these people that basically live
31:57their entire life to like to like
32:01discover the anomaly, whether it's the
32:03big scientific discovery,
32:06or that amazing painting. And the
32:10reality is you have to go through that
32:12whole process to even have a chance of
32:14doing that. And if we just had if you
32:17just take like your top 20 scientists
32:19and they were the only ones that were
32:21ever around, we would have none of those
32:22discoveries. It took having hundreds of
32:26thousands, millions of scientists
32:29experimenting all the time to actually
32:32get out of the bottom of the funnel, the
32:34few big wins for humanity. And yet, we
32:37only admire those few people that had
32:39the wins. But everybody deserves that
32:42credit. You know what I'm saying? Like,
32:44they all deserve that credit. So when I
32:47think about investing,
32:49I mean, not everyone takes it as
32:52seriously as I take it, but there are a
32:54lot of other people besides me that are
32:56working just as hard or harder with new
32:59methodologies. They're looking for alpha
33:01in the market in different ways. I think
33:03I think we all deserve credit, man. I
33:06think I think every investor deserves
33:08that credit. Yeah. Right. I I hit it,
33:10which is awesome, but like now I just
33:12want to share it because like what
33:13really matters? Like I don't I don't
33:16care about the money really anymore.
33:18Like for me, I'm like and I don't even
33:20care about my methodology that much
33:22other than the fact that observational
33:24investing is relatable. So I think it
33:26will get people to invest and to believe
33:29that they can do something special
33:30because you don't need any special skill
33:32set. But the truth is, all I care about
33:36is getting everybody to open a brokerage
33:39account and just start investing.
33:41Because you could be a good investor, a
33:44bad investor, a great investor, if you
33:47just become an investor, you've already
33:50won. And even if you like want to pursue
33:54some other style of investing that's not
33:58optimal or if you pursue mine but don't
34:00do great at it, the fact that you're
34:03into it is going to make you throw more
34:07money into the investing side of your
34:10life. And the more money you have just
34:12in investments period, the more you win.
34:16Doesn't matter if you do a little worse
34:17than the S&P, a little better than the
34:19S&P. I mean, it's better if you do
34:21better, right? But you just got to get
34:23in the game. If you This is a game that
34:26unless you're a complete degenerate
34:30imbecile, you can't lose. Like, you just
34:33can't lose at this game unless you are
34:37at the very fringe of the generacy,
34:40which there are some people there.
34:42[laughter]
34:43Like, but like, I hate to say it, those
34:45people have real meaningful issues and
34:47problems, and I feel for them. Uh, but
34:50they're going to lose it no matter what.
34:52If they're not losing here, they're lo
34:54they're losing at the casino, right? Or
34:56they're losing someplace else.
34:58>> Yeah.
34:59>> Somebody told me, "You once made
35:01millions because of two words on Google.
35:04Roof repair."
35:05>> Yeah. I don't know if it was millions.
35:07It was definitely [laughter]
35:09I think it was definitely I think
35:11hundreds of thousands, which was an
35:13insane amount of money to me at the
35:14time. I do love that one and I talk
35:18about it quite a bit because it's it's
35:23people are like, "Okay, is this all
35:24about catching like the next big hot
35:27product?" Sometimes it is. Uh or the big
35:31trend or the fashion trend uh or the
35:33shoe trend. I've traded every shoe trend
35:35that's ever happened in the last 20
35:37years. Everyone. And I've nailed almost
35:39every one of them. But the roof repair
35:42one I love because it was simply
35:47detecting
35:49how big of a hail season we were having
35:51because the bigger the hail season the
35:54more beneficial for this company Beacon
35:56Roofing which was the number one roofing
35:58supplier in the world basically that was
36:01publicly traded. So if there's an
36:04enormous amount of hail storms that hit
36:06houses then Beacon roofing was going to
36:09knock it out of the park. All right. So,
36:11now that we know that, because if you go
36:13through the history of Beacon Roofing,
36:15you can see that's a big conversation
36:17topic in their earnings reports. By the
36:20way, this is this is an important part
36:22of the process. You want to try to
36:25identify what is it that moves the
36:27needle for that company. And if you go
36:29and read like the last three to four
36:32earnings transcripts, which are free and
36:34they're out there on the internet for
36:36anyone to read, you just simply read
36:38them and it becomes very obvious what's
36:41important like like what are people
36:43worried about or what are they excited
36:44about or if they sell more of these, the
36:47company's going to be doing really well.
36:50If they sell less of this thing, it's
36:51not going to do well. Well, Beacon
36:53Roofing was all about storm season
36:57[laughter] every year.
36:58So hedge funds and investment banks,
37:02they would wait for this insurance
37:04report that comes out, I don't know,
37:06like weeks and weeks after the storm
37:08season, and it would tell you how much
37:10hail damage was done or estimated to be
37:13done. And then based on that insurance
37:16report, Beacon Roofing would move up or
37:18down, and you had to probably pay insane
37:20amounts of money just to buy that
37:21report. No regular investor got access
37:24to that report. We get screwed, right?
37:26So, the hedge funds spend the money to
37:28get the report. They're trading Beacon
37:30Roofing, and we have no clue what the
37:32hell is going on with hail storms. I was
37:34like, "How can I beat them? How can I
37:36How can I beat them?" All right.
37:39What do people do when a hail stom hits
37:44their roof and damages it? They get on
37:47the internet, they get on Google, and
37:49they type roof repair. All right? in
37:53next to real time they type roof repair.
37:56Why is this important? Because even if
37:59you are watching the weather and you're
38:01like, "Wow, there's monster hail storms
38:02in Texas, Houston, or wherever." Well,
38:06where? Like, did it hit the populated
38:08neighborhood or was it like 5 miles away
38:10in the field? Like you need to know that
38:13because even if there's a huge hail
38:15storm, you really can't assess just the
38:18broadness of the damage to homes unless
38:22you know geographically exactly where
38:24that hail hit. So the the the
38:29like guaranteed way to know that is to
38:33simply go on Google Trends, which is a
38:37tool that anyone in the world can go on,
38:39and simply look at a five-year history
38:43of the word roof repair. And you could
38:45see every spring it jumps up for obvious
38:48reasons. That's when we have hail
38:49storms, right? And this one year it
38:53jumped up like three times higher than
38:56the prior five years. So I had was
38:59already tracking the hail storms but
39:00like I do every spring. But I was like,
39:03"Okay, this is going to be a killer year
39:05for Beacon Roofing." And it was. And I I
39:07put on a really big lever bet, options
39:09bet, because I had high conviction. I've
39:12had about 75 to 80ish
39:16high conviction trades over the course
39:19of the last 18 yearsish.
39:23And when I have high conviction around a
39:26thesis, I generally don't just invest in
39:29the stock, but I lever into the
39:31investment often using options. So that
39:35if the stock goes up 30%,
39:38maybe I can make 300% of my money or 400
39:42or even 500% of my money. And that's the
39:47only way to really knock it out of the
39:49park. That's the only way that you're
39:51going to generate any type of wildly
39:54outsized returns like I have over a long
39:57period of time is when you actually come
40:00across something that you believe in
40:04meaningfully, you have to lever into
40:06that trade.
40:07>> And let's quickly explain options
40:08because there could be people out there
40:10listening that don't understand buying
40:12the stock regularly versus using
40:14options. So, if I'm not mistaken, you're
40:16using call options that expire at a
40:19certain date, and you're betting and
40:20saying that this stock is going to
40:24increase over a certain price by a
40:26certain date. And if it does, and if it
40:28blows it out of the water and it, you
40:30know, rises much more than that, you're
40:32going to earn an outsized return. Not
40:34just, like you said, if it goes up 30%,
40:36you could make 300% potentially, but if
40:39it doesn't, you hypothetically could
40:41lose what? All of your money. Let's
40:43explain options real quick to the people
40:45who don't understand.
40:45>> Options are options are actually pretty
40:48simple the way that I use them. I only
40:51use option to get leverage on my money.
40:55And leverage is like my favorite topic
40:57to talk about. But um basically when you
41:00buy an option, what you're doing is
41:03rather than spending $100 to buy stock,
41:08you're giving someone $100 for the
41:12option to buy 10 times that amount of
41:16stock from them.
41:19anytime you want within the next few
41:22days to few weeks to few months. There's
41:24an expiration date on the contract at a
41:27predetermined price. And let's just
41:29assume the predetermined price is
41:32whatever the price is of the stock that
41:33day. So you're betting on the fact that
41:36over the course of that time period, the
41:38stock is going to go up from that
41:40predetermined price. And if it does, you
41:44get to basically buy 10 times more stock
41:47than you would have if you would have
41:49just purchased the stock. And the wild
41:52thing about options is the option value
41:55fluctuates
41:57on a minute-by-minute basis based on
42:00what it would be worth if you did buy
42:02all that stock and then sold it at the
42:03current price. So you never have to come
42:05up with the money to go out and buy 10
42:07times more stock because I I if it if
42:10the stock goes up maybe 10 or 20% that
42:13option might go up 100 or 200%. So you
42:16could double your money
42:19as opposed to making 20% on your money,
42:22right? If you're right.
42:23>> And if you're wrong, what happens? Do
42:24you lose just that $100 or you could
42:26lose more than that? If if you're wrong,
42:29let's say the stock goes down 5%.
42:33Instead of losing 5% of your money, you
42:37lose all of your money. So that $100
42:39doesn't go down to 95, it goes down to
42:41zero. So you have leverage on both
42:44sides. But what's cool about options as
42:47opposed to like borrowing on margin
42:51and stuff like that is
42:53you know what your maximum pain is going
42:56to be. like you know that if you spend
42:58$100 on an option, your worst case
42:59scenario is you lose the $100 and your
43:02best case scenario is you might turn it
43:04into a,000 or $2,000. So you could lose
43:07it all, but you could also five to 20x
43:09your money if you're right. And it's a
43:12really exciting game. It's a dangerous
43:15game for people that are irresponsible
43:18or trying to make fast money too quickly
43:20um because they become addicted to it.
43:23And like right now the hot thing in
43:26sports wagering is not just betting your
43:28money on a game, it's parlays. All the
43:32kids, like I'm around my, you know, I
43:34got a 16-year-old son and he's got a
43:38dozen 16-year-old guy friends and I'm
43:42there in the kitchen listening to them
43:44and I'm like, look, they all lost all
43:46their money again this week. I'm like,
43:48how do you continue to lose all of your
43:50money every week? like you should be
43:52winning roughly half the time. And I
43:55realized that no, they're all in like
43:58six six game parlays, seven game parlays
44:03because they want to be able to because
44:04they they have basically no money,
44:06right? So they want to be able to bet
44:08$10 to win 200 or 300. And the only way
44:12they can do that is if they pick the
44:14winner of all six of these games, which
44:16is almost impossible to do. Well, it's
44:18it's the same thing with options.
44:21So these younger investors, they get
44:23involved with options and that's all
44:25they do and then they're buying options
44:28where the strike price, which is the
44:30price that you get to purchase the stock
44:32for, is like really far away from where
44:34the stock is trading right now. Which
44:36means the stock has to go up like a lot
44:39for you not to lose all of your money.
44:42But if it does, you can make like 40
44:45times your money or 50 times your money
44:47or 100 times your money. Right? By the
44:49way, I did that exact thing when I was
44:52like 20, 21, 22 trading,
44:56it's because you don't have a lot of
44:57money and you want to make a lot of
44:59money. But truthfully, if you do that,
45:02you're going to lose almost every time.
45:04And people get so pissed off at me cuz I
45:07talk about leverage and I talk about
45:08options and like, Chris, you shouldn't
45:10even talk about that stuff because, you
45:11know, young kids look up to you and
45:14they're going to do it. I'm like,
45:15they're going to do it. They're gonna
45:17lose their money while they don't have
45:18any money and then they're going to grow
45:20up and you know their frontal lobe is
45:22gonna fully mature and all that stuff
45:26and they're going to remember how dumb
45:29they were and hopefully they're not
45:31going to continue to make those mistakes
45:33when they're like 28 or 30 or 40 and
45:36they have a family and a mortgage and
45:39they're trying to live a real life. You
45:40got to go through it, right? You got to
45:42go through it. And like you leverage is
45:46everything in life. It's everything,
45:49man. It's everything. And I don't want
45:52people to be scared of it. Like
45:56I man
45:59I think [sighs]
46:05I think I think that the biggest
46:07difference between like wealthy and just
46:11regular people.
46:14I it's not about risking more of your
46:16money, but it's about understanding
46:22what parts of your money are responsible
46:24to take risk with. Okay? Because every
46:28wealthy person has buckets of money that
46:32are oriented towards taking risk.
46:34Whether they're doing that themsel or
46:37whether a money manager is doing that
46:39for them,
46:41generally the big difference is
46:44build people that build wealth, they
46:46build it through leverage. And it's not
46:49like they're taking all their money and
46:50putting it at risk, but they understand
46:54that with increasing amounts of risk
46:57becomes increasing amounts, you know,
47:00increasing reward and it means more
47:04volatility, of course, right? Uh but if
47:08you're not taking those risk in life, uh
47:11you're never going to hit it out of the
47:13park. You know, there's nothing wrong
47:15with like getting rich slowly over, you
47:19know, the entirety of your life, but you
47:23don't need to wait, you know, 50 years.
47:25But even if you're getting rich slowly,
47:27okay, think about this.
47:30Average market returns are are 10%. S&P,
47:34right?
47:36the average returns simulated over the
47:39last hundred years in a triple lever S&P
47:44ETF, which I know people are scared of,
47:47but this isn't a triple leveraged like
47:50single stock ETF. This is across the
47:52entire S&P.
47:55It does have periods of high volatility
47:58and major drawdowns where you lose 50%
48:00of your money, 70%, 80%, 90% of your
48:03money. That sounds crazy, but over the
48:07long term, that triple leverage ETF
48:11generates 15%
48:13returns as opposed to 10% returns. So,
48:17you understand the difference. If you're
48:20investing $1 at age 18, by the time you
48:24turn 60, that $1
48:28has been multiplied like 50x. So, it's
48:31worth $50. But if you have it levered,
48:35it's $350. So you're making seven times
48:39the amount of money. 7x. Okay, think
48:43about the difference there at 7x.
48:45Because now if you're talking about
48:48$100,000, that's a difference between
48:50$700,000 and 3.5 million, which is a
48:54game-changing amount of money. So is
48:58there some tail risk in that higher risk
49:01bucket? Of course, there's some tail
49:03risk. There's some theoretical tail risk
49:06that at any moment in time, if you need
49:07to access that money, if it's bad times
49:10and you hit it after a big draw down,
49:13you could have gotten hit 90%. That's a
49:16theoretical risk, but you should have a
49:19bucket of money. or I I say you like I
49:22say this to myself like
49:26it's insane to me not to have a bucket
49:29of high-risisk capital that you're going
49:32to generate returns that are seven times
49:34higher than if you just put them in the
49:37market and most people don't even have
49:38money in the market. Right? So, like
49:42we're talking about wild differences in
49:46how quickly you become rich. And the the
49:48the biggest difference is once you
49:52realize that that bucket, you have like
49:55in my opinion at least what my research
49:58that I've done has like a 99% chance of
50:01generating that 7x the 35x over that
50:04period of time, which means a 7x higher
50:06return.
50:08All of a sudden, you're finding money
50:10all over your life. Trade-offs.
50:12Everywhere you look, you're finding
50:13trade-offs. So, you're putting money in
50:15that high-risk account that is not
50:19coming from your kids college education
50:21fund. It's not coming from your
50:23retirement account. It's coming because
50:25you made a trade-off in life and you're
50:27like, I want to have
50:30a big baller account where I can get
50:33rich quickly and I could take risk with
50:36leverage, where I can invest on margin,
50:38where I can invest options,
50:41where I can put it in a triple leverage
50:44ETF, where I can do things that are
50:47going to generate returns that are
50:48meaningfully higher than market returns,
50:51not because I'm the world's best stock
50:53picker, But just because I'm willing to
50:56invest with leverage because it's money
50:59that I don't care about
51:02because every wealthy person has money
51:04they don't care about. So why don't you
51:07come up with money you don't care about?
51:10Well, you're only going to do that if
51:11you believe that money can grow into
51:13something insanely great and like like
51:17get you out of that terrible place where
51:20you're relying on income for the rest of
51:22your life.
51:24And anybody could do this. Like actually
51:26anybody could do this.
51:29So I think it I think it's really
51:31important. And when you do it, all of a
51:33sudden you're clipping coupons. You're
51:36making your own coffee at home. You
51:39know, like
51:41believe me, every second of every day
51:44you're thinking, "How can I find money
51:46in my life to put in that bucket?"
51:49Because you know it's your only way out.
51:51it's actually your only way out. Um,
51:56and it's just like my favorite thing to
51:57talk about because it's something
51:58anybody can do and nobody thinks they
52:00can do it because everyone's I can't
52:02take that risk. I sh should be trading
52:04on margin. I can't do options. That's
52:06crazy. It's only crazy if you do it with
52:08your normal money. It's not crazy if you
52:12do it with the money that you waste at
52:13the casino once a year. It's not crazy
52:16if you do it with the money that you're
52:18using to buy $18 drinks at the bar,
52:21right? Like maybe have a extra couple of
52:25drinks at home and then when you get to
52:26the bar just milk a really cheap drink
52:29and be cool with the cheap vodka, right?
52:31Cuz it doesn't make a difference anyway.
52:32It's all the same. So like
52:36this is like the biggest game changer
52:39for for just every human and it's an
52:43unlock that no one believes is there and
52:45it pisses me off. And so like I've made
52:48a decision I'm going to start talking
52:50about it like even though I get crap for
52:51it cuz people are like they're going to
52:53misinterpret this. People are going to
52:55start investing on leverage and all this
52:57stuff. They're going to lose all their
52:58money. Well I didn't say to do that. I
53:00said to create an account, an account
53:01where it doesn't matter if that really
53:03bad scenario hits at the wrong time and
53:07you're in a major draw down and you're
53:08like down 98%.
53:11You got to live with that.
53:13Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I mean, everyone
53:15should be investing if they're not. If
53:18they already are, then using a smaller
53:22portion of your total portfolio and
53:26having some level of leverage there or
53:28some maybe you're highly concentrated
53:30there and some smaller portion of your
53:32portfolio seems like it could be a
53:34value. It's obviously worked for you. I
53:35>> I mean, imagine if your house
53:39was your portfolio, right? You don't
53:42protect your house from burning down by
53:46never using your stove. Do you you you
53:49make sure that your house the structure
53:52is safe and fireproof
53:54and then you figure out where you can
53:56safely light fires like on your stove or
53:59in the fireplace.
54:00>> It's a good analogy.
54:00>> Does that make sense?
54:01>> Yeah.
54:02>> Like like are you just going to not use
54:04fire in your home because it's going to
54:07burn down your house? No. There's a
54:09there's a correct way to use fire.
54:11There's a correct way to use leverage.
54:13It's the same thing.
54:18>> And let's go back to some of the the
54:22observations that you make, right? Are
54:24you still scrolling Tik Tok to find
54:27information?
54:28>> Yeah, I'm deep on Tik Tok. I'm just It's
54:30my life.
54:31>> Okay. And is it am I is it right that I
54:35have notes here that you at sometimes
54:38spend four hours a night you're reading
54:39through Tik Tok comments, Reddit
54:41threads, Facebook groups for to to
54:43observe or is that still not h is that
54:45not happening anymore?
54:46>> That was happening for a really long
54:48time. Uh it's not happening anymore
54:50because I made a conscious decision this
54:53last year
54:55to do other things outside of investing
54:59in my life. So, you know, I'm I'm trying
55:02to explore other things outside of
55:05investing, which means I don't have 4
55:07hours a night anymore, but
55:10I'm still spending an hour or two a day
55:12doing it. So, little little less than
55:14half of what I used to spend, and it's
55:18doing exactly that. The magic is in the
55:20comments. The gold is in the comments.
55:22The comments is where all the alpha is.
55:25>> What are you seeing in those comments?
55:26That
55:27>> everything. I'm seeing everything that's
55:29happening in the world unfold in real
55:31time. So,
55:33if there is a restaurant chain that has
55:39a new menu item, like when Chili's had
55:43the cheese pull or even they had um
55:47their buffalo cheese sticks, like I and
55:50they had their they had a few different
55:52they had a lot of good stuff happening
55:54all at the same time and and it kind of
55:55like went viral.
55:58How are you going to find out about that
55:59first on Tik Tok, right? And not because
56:03people were doing videos about it, but
56:06because you're going to watch the videos
56:08that people were doing and those videos
56:11had thousands of comments. And what were
56:13the comments? The comments are like,
56:15"Oh, dude, I we had it last night. It
56:17was awesome." Or, "We're actually going
56:18to go this weekend. Um, yeah, the pe the
56:21cheese pole is legit." So, it's like
56:24these sound like really stupid things,
56:27but this is where life is now. Love it
56:30or hate it, we all like to complain that
56:33every person is glued to their phone
56:3524/7 and we are. Um, this is where we're
56:39living our life and this is where we're
56:42expressing ourselves. And Tik Tok, you
56:45know, going back to when it was founded,
56:48it's always been the quirky place where
56:51people were more open to tell the truth.
56:56Uh people have always been more raw on
57:00Tik Tok as opposed to the polished
57:03uh presentation of themselves that they
57:05put on Instagram. And that's why the
57:08gold has always been in the on the Tik
57:10Tok comments.
57:12But everything is there. I mean, and by
57:14the way, I say everything. You're not
57:16going to find out that much about AI on
57:19Tik Tok, right? Like, I'm not, you know,
57:23when I do my research on the degree to
57:25which developers
57:28are meaningfully implementing AI at
57:31their incumbent software company, right?
57:34I'm not looking in the Tik Tok comments,
57:36right? I'm I'm looking in developer
57:38forums. I'm looking at Reddit. I'm
57:40looking on X. Uh, so you have to know
57:45where to look, but there's still a
57:48tremendous amount of alpha on Tik Tok,
57:50especially when it comes to consumer
57:52stuff. What people are buying, what
57:54they're doing, what their time, where
57:55they're vacationing, what they're
57:57eating, health, right? Like this
58:00massive, massive movement towards
58:03health. the last few years
58:06has been such a gamecher for so many
58:12companies
58:13and it's like
58:16it's just been just been a needle mover,
58:18right? And and Tik Tok is where that
58:20took place. It's all the health
58:22influencers on Tik Tok. So
58:25that's where that's where I hang out.
58:28Did you make $30 million during COVID?
58:31>> I made more than 30 million actually, a
58:34little more. And then I lost not most of
58:38it, but a good chunk of it on the back
58:40end of it when I had a moment of
58:42insanity and I got like pulled into the
58:45world of NFTTS.
58:46Not because I lost money on NFTTS. Um,
58:51ironically, I I think I actually made
58:53money on my whole NFT journey, but I was
58:56distracted. So, I missed where I should
59:00have been
59:03exiting a lot of those positions and
59:05shorting the market on the back end. I
59:08wasn't. I was just obsessed with NFT
59:10projects. It was like I I I had reverted
59:13back into being like a 13-year-old kid
59:15with a bunch of really interesting new
59:18friends that I had made. uh through, you
59:22know, text text groups uh that to this
59:26day are now some of my closest friends.
59:28So, it was all worth it. I'd do it all
59:30again. I would do it all again just to
59:32meet all these guys. But um I did make
59:3530 million because I be I I was I was
59:40basically
59:42uh you know in using Google Translate
59:46to read reports coming out of uh China
59:52from doctors and from medical experts
59:56about how severe COVID was. So, I was
59:59very early on COVID and it was obvious
1:00:03to me with 100% certainty that it was
1:00:07going to become a pandemic. So, we had
1:00:10never had a pandemic in my lifetime. And
1:00:12it wasn't very difficult to put the
1:00:15pieces together of what would happen if
1:00:17we had a pandemic. The stock market's
1:00:19going to crash, right? Like, it's just
1:00:21not again, it's I'm not that smart. Like
1:00:24it's just not there's nothing that I do
1:00:26that's like dude how did you figure that
1:00:28out? I don't know man. There's like a
1:00:31pandemic coming out of China and it's
1:00:34about to hit the entire world. So I'm
1:00:38going to short airlines and casino
1:00:41stocks because no one's going to sit at
1:00:43a casino table and no one's going to get
1:00:45on an airplane.
1:00:46>> But well, let's go back. What what was
1:00:48the catalyst? What did you observe?
1:00:50Because when I found out about COVID
1:00:52happening, I probably was looking
1:00:53watching CNBC and the market crash. It
1:00:55was probably uh what March something
1:00:5815th 20th of 2020. But you saw something
1:01:01prior. What did you see?
1:01:02>> So So we all
1:01:04knew about COVID as a news story that
1:01:08was kind of like bubbling up from China.
1:01:12I had the curiosity
1:01:15once I like everything that I see when I
1:01:18hear about something when I see
1:01:19something I have that natural curiosity
1:01:22to say okay is this real or not is this
1:01:26a big deal or not. So I go on that
1:01:30journey every time I hear about
1:01:32something. So that was one of a thousand
1:01:34things I heard about that year and I
1:01:36started researching it. One of the
1:01:39things I was acutely aware of was, and
1:01:42this is from one of my favorite bl
1:01:44books, uh, Nim Taleb's Black Swan talks
1:01:49a lot about the psychology of humans. We
1:01:52will not accept anomalies. We just don't
1:01:55accept them to be real until they're
1:01:56right in front of our face and they're
1:01:57happening. So, if there's no precedent
1:02:00for something, if there's no historical
1:02:03reference point for something,
1:02:06we just don't believe it. if it's
1:02:08happening for the first time. Okay? So
1:02:10like we had never had a pandemic in our
1:02:12life. We had heard about the bird flu,
1:02:14this and that. It never materializes. So
1:02:16we just always assume that it's the same
1:02:19thing. However, that's not how the world
1:02:22works.
1:02:24Eventually the thing happens. Look at
1:02:26history. Eventually all the things
1:02:30happen. They just don't happen very
1:02:32often. You're going to have the crazy
1:02:34flood. You're going to have, and this is
1:02:37this is dark, right? But like
1:02:40the comet's eventually gonna hit Earth,
1:02:43okay? Like that's going to happen. Uh
1:02:46eventually there will be the big bad
1:02:48virus. We can't figure out. There will
1:02:50be the the war that gets out of control.
1:02:53Like all the stuff will eventually
1:02:56happen.
1:02:58So, I just went a few levels deeper and
1:03:01did the hard work to assess that CO was
1:03:04real when no one else was willing to do
1:03:06that because they're lazy. That that's
1:03:08the answer to the question. Most
1:03:10investors are lazy. They're just lazy.
1:03:12They're still lazy to this day. I think
1:03:14almost every investor is lazy. So, I'm a
1:03:18little less lazy than other investors.
1:03:20So, I did the work. Once I realized it
1:03:23was real, I started shorting airline
1:03:25stocks and casino stocks. I was too
1:03:27early. I was losing insane amounts of
1:03:29money every week. So, there were weekly
1:03:31options, like 10ish% of my portfolio
1:03:33every week for a few weeks,
1:03:36freaking out. Uh eventually,
1:03:40uh there was a moment when the market
1:03:42cracked, but it was like I think it went
1:03:45down like 2%. I was so upset. I was I
1:03:47mean I wasn't upset I want the market to
1:03:50like by the way I didn't want the
1:03:52pandemic to happen but I knew there was
1:03:54nothing that I was going to do in my
1:03:56living room to stop this pandemic from
1:03:58happening.
1:04:00I wanted to make a lot of money off of
1:04:02it because someone was going to make
1:04:03money off it trading it if some it's not
1:04:06going to be a hedge fund. It's going to
1:04:07be me. Okay. Like I'd ra better me than
1:04:10a hedge fund. So I this is what I do.
1:04:14It's my life. So, I was going to make
1:04:17money off when the market eventually got
1:04:21hit. It was just taking way too long
1:04:24again because investors are lazy and it
1:04:27took them too long to realize what was
1:04:28happening. Well, eventually they
1:04:29realized it. the market hit and I had
1:04:32the biggest, you know, biggest week of
1:04:35my trading career and
1:04:39I already had a plan in place
1:04:42to go long the basket of stocks that I
1:04:45knew were going to benefit from the
1:04:47pandemic that I also knew were going to
1:04:51crash first because again, investors are
1:04:54lazy and they weren't going to do the
1:04:57work to re to realize that these stocks
1:05:00should not be going down, they should be
1:05:02going up. But you have to know that,
1:05:04right? So, all the work from home stuff,
1:05:06right? You know, Huelet Packard that
1:05:09makes printers cuz I knew people would
1:05:11be doing school from home. Bicycles cuz
1:05:14that's pretty much the only activity you
1:05:16can do. RVs because you can't go to a
1:05:18hotel. You got to go camping in an RV.
1:05:21Boats. Uh four-wheelers.
1:05:25Uh, I mean, Amazon because now you're
1:05:28ordering all your stuff to your house.
1:05:30Uh, Shopify because all the digital
1:05:33companies were going to boom. Pelaton
1:05:34because you can't go to the gym anymore.
1:05:36You got to work out in your house. So, I
1:05:38had a massive basket of these companies.
1:05:40I kept adding to it. And I just watched
1:05:43this basket of companies get destroyed
1:05:45when the stock market went down. I was
1:05:47like, "Oh, this is going to be the
1:05:48trade." Like the short trade on the
1:05:51market was big,
1:05:53but I knew this was going to be way
1:05:54bigger. And I I knew I would never be
1:05:58able to time the market bottom. I knew I
1:06:00would be late. And I was late. I was
1:06:03exactly two days late. So two days after
1:06:06the market bottomed and we started
1:06:08printing all that money and the Fed got
1:06:11involved and the market started to
1:06:13rebound, I was like, "Okay, this is it."
1:06:17And I invested in all those companies
1:06:19and that's that's when I made the real
1:06:21money, right? Because those companies
1:06:22went up
1:06:253x, 5x, 7x, Schwin B. There's a small
1:06:28Canadian company that made like car
1:06:31seats and Schwin bicycles. That's all
1:06:33they did. They owned Schwin Bicycle, the
1:06:35company, and a car seat company. No one
1:06:38knew what this company was. Like it was
1:06:39a nothing company. they went up like I
1:06:41don't know 10x or something like that
1:06:43over the so these aren't investing in
1:06:46options just the stock went up like 10x
1:06:49[laughter] so
1:06:51it was just like this I this crazy
1:06:55moment in time for me because I always
1:06:57say that like as as an observational
1:06:59investor or social arb investor
1:07:02that that the biggest opportunities are
1:07:05moments of big change in the world like
1:07:08the more change the bigger the
1:07:10opportunity
1:07:11And the quicker that that change is
1:07:13happening, the bigger the opportunity
1:07:15because companies are either getting
1:07:18destroyed or flourishing quickly because
1:07:21there's just like all of a sudden people
1:07:24want that product that didn't want it
1:07:25yesterday, right? All of a sudden this
1:07:28company is in the right place, right
1:07:30time or bad place, wrong time, right?
1:07:34And so you need the change to happen for
1:07:37the opportunity to open up. Well, we had
1:07:40never had a change as big or as fast
1:07:45in my lifetime as what co brought to
1:07:49every company in the world. So, that was
1:07:52the moment I had always waited for to
1:07:54trade.
1:07:55And the only time since then, I didn't
1:07:58think we'd ever get a moment like that
1:07:59again until AI. And when I got on chat
1:08:04GPT for the first time with everybody
1:08:06else, I I literally just like I didn't
1:08:11talk to anyone for a week. I went into
1:08:13like a meditative state cuz I was like,
1:08:16I got to I spent a lot of time on it. I
1:08:18was like, dude, is this real? Like this
1:08:19is crazy.
1:08:21And I was like, if this is real and if
1:08:24this continues along the trajectory that
1:08:27I think is possible,
1:08:30this will become the biggest thing to
1:08:33ever happen in my lifetime, which will
1:08:35mean that this will become the biggest
1:08:37opportunity to invest as an
1:08:39observational investor and make insane
1:08:42amounts of money. And I went all in on
1:08:44the AI trade. And for anyone that's been
1:08:47following me the last, I don't know,
1:08:49three and a half years, you know that
1:08:52where I used to talk about the hottest
1:08:54shoe trend of the day to trade Crocs or
1:08:57Uggs or whatever, I've been kind of
1:08:59laser focused, distracted, and consumed
1:09:02by the AI trade. And it's been one of
1:09:05the most lucrative trades of my life.
1:09:07companies like, you know, Palunteer,
1:09:11uh, you know, just name them, all all
1:09:14the AI stocks, right? From the memory
1:09:16stocks to the data centers. Uh, I've
1:09:21been in on just about every single AI
1:09:23trade because I had mentally prepared
1:09:26myself for the trade and I was zoned in
1:09:30and waiting for it. And to this day, I'm
1:09:34still working on it. And I still think
1:09:36going forward that it's the biggest
1:09:38opportunity for investors and we
1:09:43I don't know I want to say we probably
1:09:45won't ever get this again for a very
1:09:46long time if ever. I could be wrong
1:09:49because it's I I don't like to predict
1:09:50the future. I just like to stay focused
1:09:52on assessing the the ground truth of of
1:09:55the present.
1:09:57But
1:09:58I am a little concerned with will there
1:10:03be another mega opportunity for
1:10:04investors after the AI trade is over. I
1:10:06don't think it's even close to being
1:10:07over by the way. But
1:10:09>> are we still early on the AI trade?
1:10:11>> I I I don't know if I would use the word
1:10:13early. It just goes through phases. I
1:10:15talked about this. There was like this
1:10:17discovery phase. Uh there was this
1:10:21magical moment. Chachi BT, right? And
1:10:23that was the Nvidia phase. Nvidia was
1:10:25actually my first investment in AI uh
1:10:28that I knocked it out of the park on.
1:10:29And then there was the infrastructure
1:10:31wave which we're still in. Like we're
1:10:33still in the infrastructure wave. Uh but
1:10:35this next big wave I think I call it the
1:10:38AI efficiency wave. And it's the biggest
1:10:42part of the AI cycle because up until
1:10:44now there's only been like I don't know
1:10:4720 or 30 companies that have really
1:10:49meaningfully benefited from artificial
1:10:51intelligence as part of the
1:10:53infrastructure layer. They either make
1:10:54chips or they make data centers or
1:10:57they're involved with energy or memory,
1:11:00right?
1:11:01But at some point in time, I firmly
1:11:06believe that we are going to see massive
1:11:10meaningful
1:11:12increases in productivity and efficiency
1:11:16that AI is going to bring to almost
1:11:18every major company on Earth, especially
1:11:22those companies that are spending
1:11:26massive amounts of money on just
1:11:30repetitive
1:11:31human type of work, right? But even
1:11:34beyond that, just the degree to which
1:11:37artificial intelligence, even without
1:11:40displacing humans,
1:11:42can actually help these companies
1:11:45optimize their businesses. the degree to
1:11:48which artificial intelligence can help
1:11:52every company in the world figure out a
1:11:55better, cheaper way to manufacture
1:11:58whatever it is that they manufacture or
1:12:00how to deliver whatever it is that they
1:12:02deliver to their end customers. AI is
1:12:05going to deliver productivity increases
1:12:09everywhere. Okay, in terms of as because
1:12:12we're democratizing intelligence. So,
1:12:15it's not just about displacing human
1:12:17employees. I actually don't even think
1:12:19that's going to be a really big deal. I
1:12:21think it's going to be more about
1:12:23allowing companies to expand
1:12:27where they couldn't before because there
1:12:29were not enough humans
1:12:32to expand, right, into areas they want
1:12:35to expand into. And now they could do
1:12:38more with the humans they have by
1:12:41retraining them to do different things
1:12:44to be more optimized with their talent
1:12:46and their time by leveraging AI. Of
1:12:49course, I know I'm an optimist, but this
1:12:52is my thesis.
1:12:54Um, and that so many of the world's
1:12:58companies are going to see massive jumps
1:13:01in both revenue
1:13:03and in earnings power because they will
1:13:08be optimized because the intelligence
1:13:12layer will be fully democratized and
1:13:14free. And so that's the efficiency wave.
1:13:18And the companies that are probably best
1:13:20positioned to benefit more than anyone
1:13:23else are companies that have
1:13:25distribution because distribution is
1:13:29just really hard to replicate and takes
1:13:32years and years and years to build out.
1:13:35So if you're a company that's been
1:13:38operating for years to decades and you
1:13:42have massive distribution
1:13:45around the world to clients, to
1:13:47customers, whether it's physical product
1:13:50or not physical product. Uh you have
1:13:53relationships, right? You have vendor
1:13:55relationships, you have supply chain
1:13:57relationships, you have reseller
1:13:59relationships. There are so many aspects
1:14:02of the business world that are ex
1:14:06exceedingly difficult to just easily
1:14:10replicate quickly. So once the
1:14:13intelligence layer becomes free and
1:14:15allows companies to optimize what they
1:14:18do, the companies that have the built-in
1:14:21distribution are going to win. Not
1:14:24necessarily a startup because normally a
1:14:27startup wins because they're more
1:14:29innovative, right? The they're capable
1:14:32of doing things quicker.
1:14:35Well,
1:14:36in a world of AI,
1:14:39even the big companies will have the
1:14:41ability to innovate on their products
1:14:42instantaneously,
1:14:44right? So, like if you come up with a
1:14:48great new way to improve a product and
1:14:50you're like, "We're going to improve
1:14:52this product because that big incumbent,
1:14:55their product's just kind of crappy."
1:14:56Well, the big incumbent's AI agents are
1:14:59already thought of that idea. You know
1:15:01what I'm saying? [laughter] Already
1:15:02working on it. So like, yeah, no one at
1:15:04Hey, okay, nobody at the big incumbent
1:15:07cares enough
1:15:09or to actually innovate,
1:15:13but the AI agents that they have working
1:15:15for them do. Okay, so like I act my
1:15:19thesis is that the big companies that
1:15:21have the distribution are actually going
1:15:23to massively benefit from this AI
1:15:26efficiency wave. And where that gets
1:15:28really exciting is that if I'm correct
1:15:32can become the driver for the entirety
1:15:36of the stock market and capital markets
1:15:39to grow meaningfully as opposed to just
1:15:42the 20 or 30 or 40 companies that are
1:15:45deep in the AI infrastructure layer.
1:15:47Okay, that means everybody wins.
1:15:50All the investors win. Capital markets
1:15:53wins. By the way, humans win because
1:15:58when these companies win, they need they
1:16:01have more money. They want to expand.
1:16:04And yes, you know, every bit of
1:16:06expansion requires less humans than
1:16:10before, but they're expanding. So
1:16:12hopefully, I think everybody's going to
1:16:14have really great jobs as a result of
1:16:16this. And this is where people really
1:16:18get pissed off cuz like everybody wants
1:16:20to be a doomer. Are we going to have
1:16:22obstacles? Are we going to have sectors
1:16:24of the economy where people lose jobs?
1:16:26Yes. Do we need to help those people?
1:16:28100%. I want us more focused on helping
1:16:32the people as opposed to helping the
1:16:34jobs. I want the jobs to go away and to
1:16:38become new better jobs. I want to help
1:16:42the people that get left out. And the
1:16:45best way to help those people, well,
1:16:48temporarily we have to come up with
1:16:49innovative ways just to patch them
1:16:51through this process. But the best way
1:16:53to help those people is to provide a
1:16:57much larger
1:16:59growth trajectory for the global economy
1:17:02that will want to bring those people
1:17:04back into it with higher [snorts]
1:17:06paying, more interesting
1:17:09jobs than before. And not just those
1:17:11people, but their kids and their
1:17:13grandkids, right? And so, like, I don't
1:17:15know why everybody's so negative.
1:17:18I don't I never thought I would be the
1:17:20positive guy in this world, but I guess
1:17:22I'm the only guy that's thinking
1:17:23positively about all this. And we'll see
1:17:26if I'm right. I hope I'm right. Right.
1:17:28But like, you got to have the right
1:17:30attitude for this to even have a
1:17:32starting point for building the new
1:17:35economy to where we can all flourish.
1:17:37Let's let let's take the other side
1:17:39there, which is I've had two people
1:17:42recently who've sat in that same chair
1:17:45who both believe that if we reach ASI or
1:17:50artificial super intelligence,
1:17:52an intelligent system that's more
1:17:55intelligent than all humans combined in
1:17:58every subject matter.
1:18:00They've both have told me and one is now
1:18:02has just moved to Washington to petition
1:18:05government on this. They both truly
1:18:07believe and one's been studying AI for
1:18:0920 years, AI safety. They both truly
1:18:12believe that artificial super
1:18:14intelligence will wipe out all of
1:18:15humanity. Not just we're going to lose
1:18:17our jobs. That it will it'll look at
1:18:20humans as we look at ants. Okay, we have
1:18:22to build this road. There's going to be
1:18:24ants that are going to die. What do you
1:18:27think about that?
1:18:29>> So the two ideas are not like, you know,
1:18:32mutually exclusive, right? like like so
1:18:35they could both be correct to some
1:18:37extent.
1:18:38Uh
1:18:40I tend to believe they are correct if we
1:18:46don't do something about it. Now but
1:18:50know this because I've spent a lot of
1:18:52time on this too.
1:18:54Historically
1:18:56again a lot of this comes down to like
1:18:59the psychology of humans and how we
1:19:01behave.
1:19:02Historically, we don't get our crap
1:19:05together until we absolutely have to.
1:19:08Okay? Admittedly, we've done a horrible
1:19:11job, horrible job at providing like,
1:19:18you know, a safety framework for
1:19:20artificial intelligence. It's actually
1:19:22disgusting that we've got this far
1:19:25without even communicating really that
1:19:28much across labs, across countries,
1:19:31across governments. We're not even
1:19:33trying. Like, it's so depressing to
1:19:37think about that. This is the biggest
1:19:40existential threat that I've seen to
1:19:43humanity ever since I've been alive. And
1:19:46no one's even doing anything about it.
1:19:49And I'm an optimist. as you can tell
1:19:52from everything I've said.
1:19:55[sighs]
1:19:56My hope
1:19:58[laughter]
1:20:00is that it's going to get real quickly
1:20:03and that we're going to wake up and do
1:20:05something about it. Historically,
1:20:09we usually do.
1:20:12I don't know.
1:20:13>> Their pitch or their counter-argument to
1:20:15that is you you only know once you've
1:20:18reached it. Once you've reached
1:20:19artificial super intelligence, it's too
1:20:21late. And we may reach it in a year,
1:20:23three, it's hard to say exactly when,
1:20:25but in short order, it'll be reached if
1:20:27we don't put guard rails now. And
1:20:29there's no financial incentives right
1:20:31now to have those guardrails. Whereas
1:20:33where the lobbying is coming from these
1:20:34big companies who have money, who are
1:20:36just incentivized [clears throat] by
1:20:37making more money, there's there's no
1:20:39there has to be government intervention.
1:20:40And that's just for us. That doesn't
1:20:42count China. That doesn't count Russia
1:20:43or other places. So the people that I've
1:20:45talked to in in around AI that are deep
1:20:49in it have all expressed this type of
1:20:52concern. And I I think there's probably
1:20:55a bigger concern that happens before
1:20:58that.
1:21:00You know, they're worried about
1:21:03super intelligence.
1:21:06I'm I'm concerned about things that
1:21:09happen before super intelligence. I'm
1:21:12concerned about bad actors.
1:21:15It doesn't take super intelligence for a
1:21:18bad actor to get access because it only
1:21:20takes one bad actor or a group to get
1:21:24access to these tools even before they
1:21:27become super intelligent
1:21:30to figure out how to cause mass
1:21:32destruction in the most optimized way
1:21:34ever. I'm way more concerned about that
1:21:37right now.
1:21:39I'm not saying we shouldn't be working
1:21:41on both, but I think my problem happens
1:21:44before ASI
1:21:45>> and maybe that's when they take notice
1:21:47and start to build some guard rails in.
1:21:50>> I I hope um
1:21:53I'm not the guy to solve those problems
1:21:56and I try not to think about it because
1:21:59I know I'm not going to solve those
1:22:01problems. I hope other people do and
1:22:03I'll support anyone that is trying to
1:22:06solve those problems. And to some
1:22:08extent, I don't want to, you know,
1:22:12I don't want to get in that dark world
1:22:15the next however many years of my life I
1:22:18have to be obsessed about it and
1:22:20thinking about it cuz if it's going to
1:22:21happen, it's going to happen. Life is
1:22:23pretty good right now still, right? So,
1:22:26I want to enjoy life before that
1:22:28happens. I mean, I'm just being honest
1:22:30with you. Like, we all have to make our
1:22:32own decisions. Like if I was in a place
1:22:34where I thought, "Hey, I'm the right
1:22:36person to solve that problem, I'd get my
1:22:39butt up and solve it." But I I don't
1:22:40think I am. I know there are people out
1:22:42there that are great at what they do.
1:22:45Um, and I really really hope that
1:22:48they're taking this seriously. I hope
1:22:50that this is their calling. Like I hope
1:22:52there are a ton of people out there that
1:22:56are selfless in terms of how they think
1:22:58or not. Doesn't matter. They just know
1:23:00that this is their calling that they can
1:23:02execute and make a difference. And I
1:23:06hope they stand up, you know, soon and
1:23:09ruffle some feathers and make things
1:23:11happen. I think they will have support
1:23:13from people. Like every year that we go,
1:23:17probably every month at this point,
1:23:19right? I think people will become more
1:23:22aware of the dangers that come with AI.
1:23:25>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm trying to do
1:23:27my part by giving them a platform to
1:23:30speak out so more people can understand
1:23:31this. Okay, let's go back to trading.
1:23:33Um, you've said that the best traders
1:23:35only make large trades maybe every 5
1:23:38years or 10 years. It's when I when
1:23:40people think about trading, I feel like
1:23:42they may think, oh, you're sitting there
1:23:44in front of a computer, you're just
1:23:45hitting buttons, you're trading all day.
1:23:46But it seems like from the stuff you
1:23:48talked about, some of these huge major
1:23:50trades in major trends happen every 5
1:23:55years, every decade. This could be years
1:23:57before another huge movement comes
1:23:59before you make a crazy huge bet. And I
1:24:01know you just made a huge uh huge bet in
1:24:03Amazon.
1:24:04>> Yeah. I mean, so there are times when
1:24:08the trades are more obvious. This is one
1:24:11of those times, right? There's just a
1:24:13lot of these trades and they're really
1:24:14obvious and they're really big. There's
1:24:18always trades out there to make. You
1:24:19just kind of have to like work harder to
1:24:22find them. At this point, like during
1:24:25COVID with all those trades, they were
1:24:27just like falling from the sky. And and
1:24:29and with the AI trade, it's not too far
1:24:33off from that. It's like, okay, who
1:24:35makes the chips? You know, who makes the
1:24:38data centers? What do the data centers
1:24:40need to operate? You know, like I'm
1:24:41invested in a couple foreign companies
1:24:43in Japan that are like, "Oh, they need
1:24:45this scanning equipment to test, you
1:24:48know, the integrity of the chips before
1:24:50they go into the rack." Like that
1:24:52company's going to be a winner. Like,
1:24:54it's not that difficult.
1:24:57When you get beyond these periods of
1:24:59like insane amounts of change happening
1:25:02in the world,
1:25:03the opportunities are a little harder to
1:25:05find. Like, yeah, if you were one of the
1:25:07early people that were fortunate enough
1:25:09to have a friend that drove a Tesla and
1:25:11you got in one, you're like, "Okay, this
1:25:13is a game changer. I'm investing in
1:25:15Tesla." Boom. Right place, right time.
1:25:17Tesla was a lifedee defining investment
1:25:20for you. And I know a lot of guys that
1:25:24might never make another great
1:25:25investment again, but the fact that they
1:25:27invested in Tesla at the right time is
1:25:30going to make them a top 1% investor
1:25:33in, you know, just because they did and
1:25:36they invested a lot. Like a lot of these
1:25:38guys like put like 20, 30, 40% of their
1:25:41liquid net worth in Tesla when it was
1:25:43basically nothing. And now they're
1:25:44cajillionaires, right? [sighs]
1:25:46And they deserve it. Uh but there's a
1:25:50lot there's a lot of those stories,
1:25:51right? You only need to capture like one
1:25:53or two of them really over your
1:25:55lifetime. So yeah, if you can capture
1:25:57one every 5 to 10 years, you're doing
1:25:59great. But but but again, you have to be
1:26:02willing to put a lot of money in, maybe
1:26:05levered. So if you don't have an account
1:26:08where you can do that with, then you're
1:26:11just going to hit another single.
1:26:13But you want an account where you could
1:26:15hit home runs, you know, grand slams,
1:26:17right? Like you want to have that
1:26:19account because you never know when it's
1:26:20going to fall in your lap
1:26:23and you want to understand how to use
1:26:25the tools of leverage. You want to
1:26:27become comfortable with them so that in
1:26:323 years or eight years when that thing
1:26:35happens you're like I know exactly what
1:26:37to do. I've been waiting for this. When
1:26:39COVID hit I knew exactly what to do.
1:26:40I've been waiting for it. Um
1:26:44when this AI thing hit, I've been
1:26:46waiting for this. Let's talk about Tesla
1:26:47for a second. You mentioned you
1:26:48mentioned Tesla. Do you think humanoids
1:26:52is the is going to be the next big
1:26:54thing? If so, do you think Tesla wins
1:26:56that market? Is it another company like
1:26:57Figure AI or some of these others? Is
1:27:00that another big trend like a similar to
1:27:02an AI that can essentially take over and
1:27:04be one of these huge mega wins?
1:27:08>> Yeah. As as people know, I was probably
1:27:10the earliest robot investor because I
1:27:12just happened to meet the founders of
1:27:14one of the big three robot companies
1:27:16eight years ago before robots were
1:27:18robots. Uh I I believe that generalized
1:27:22robotics,
1:27:23right? So robots that are fully
1:27:27generalized in their capabilities,
1:27:29meaning that they could actually do
1:27:31anything. One robot that could more or
1:27:33less do anything that a human could do.
1:27:37Whether it looks exactly like a human or
1:27:39not is kind of irrelevant. I think that
1:27:41will be the biggest industry that we've
1:27:43ever seen materialize. I think it will
1:27:46change economies. I think it will
1:27:52I mean it turns
1:27:55it turns physical labor into software
1:27:57basically. It's how we should be
1:27:59thinking about it. You
1:28:03get near infinite scaling in the world.
1:28:07And there's nothing we can't accomplish
1:28:09anymore because the biggest bottleneck
1:28:12historically has always been physical
1:28:16labor or our limitations on our
1:28:19capabilities to physically construct,
1:28:22right, and build. But we're about to
1:28:25have democratized intelligence. And once
1:28:28we get democratized
1:28:32physical labor, you put those two worlds
1:28:34together and the possibilities are truly
1:28:38infinite both here and where throughout
1:28:42the universe, right?
1:28:44So, it's just a matter of time. It I
1:28:47it's not to me it's not like do you
1:28:50believe, it's when do you believe? Is is
1:28:53that a market where it's winner take all
1:28:55or is that a market where Tesla and some
1:28:56of these other there could be multiple
1:28:58winners? You know, is it like search or
1:29:00is it something else?
1:29:01>> It's definitely not a winner take all
1:29:03market. That that I I can say that with
1:29:05confidence.
1:29:06>> Why is that?
1:29:07>> Because
1:29:09the world of generalized robotics is
1:29:11going to move meaningfully slower than
1:29:13anybody understands.
1:29:15Uh
1:29:17you have hardware involved, right? And
1:29:21when you have hardware involved
1:29:24and you have generalization involved and
1:29:26you have safety involved and you have
1:29:29processes involved with with putting
1:29:32these things to work, we've never done
1:29:35that before. You have deployment
1:29:37challenges. So the deployment of
1:29:40generalized robots into the world is
1:29:43going to happen really slowly because
1:29:45each deployment is going to require a
1:29:48massive amount of change transformation.
1:29:51What I mean by that is when IBM created
1:29:55mainframes, I don't know, back in the
1:29:5780s, if you were, I don't know, a big
1:30:01company that manufactured
1:30:04food,
1:30:06they would deliver a mainframe to you.
1:30:09You didn't just become a company that
1:30:11now operates off of a computer because
1:30:12you have a mainframe sitting in your
1:30:14basement. you maybe spent 10 years
1:30:16figuring out how to integrate that
1:30:18mainframe into every area of your
1:30:20business. Right? So now we're going to
1:30:23go to a company that has hundreds of
1:30:24thousands of employees and has, you
1:30:26know, dock workers and laborers at
1:30:28manufacturing facilities doing a hundred
1:30:30different things and warehouses and
1:30:32every warehouse looks a little
1:30:33different, different safety standards
1:30:35depending on the country it's in. uh and
1:30:39we're going to say, "Hey, we have a
1:30:40generalized robot that theoretically
1:30:43can do all that stuff." It's going to
1:30:46take years and years and years to go
1:30:49through the change transformation to
1:30:51understand how to onboard these robots
1:30:53just into a small number of their
1:30:56facilities into all their facilities is
1:30:59going to take even longer. And then once
1:31:00you kind of like scale that problem AC
1:31:03across not just one company's facilities
1:31:06but across every company in the world
1:31:08and the long tale of hundreds of
1:31:10thousands if not millions of
1:31:12independently owned warehouses and this
1:31:14and that like there's just a learning
1:31:16curve and a deployment curve that has to
1:31:19take place because of that. this will
1:31:21happen relatively slowly and when things
1:31:24happen relatively slowly and it's
1:31:26deployentoriented
1:31:28meaning it's not a company that is just
1:31:30like scaling with AI for example a lot
1:31:35of companies are going to have a shot to
1:31:36get in that game there's a lot of manual
1:31:39processes there's a lot of teams that
1:31:41need to be put out into the world to
1:31:42work handinhand with all these companies
1:31:44on the change transformation now I know
1:31:46that everything I'm saying right now is
1:31:47not sexy and that's the problem and this
1:31:50is why no one else is talking about this
1:31:52because it's like not a sexy thing to
1:31:54talk about, but it's the truth.
1:31:57And if you spend a thousand hours deeply
1:32:00researching generalized robotics and the
1:32:02deployment of generalized robotics into
1:32:04the real world like I have, this is
1:32:06something that you understand. Um, so my
1:32:09expectations for humanoids and robots
1:32:11are very different from other people's
1:32:13expectations. However, I do think it's
1:32:15the largest
1:32:17TAM market on Earth and I think these
1:32:21will be some of the largest companies
1:32:22we've ever seen and I do think Tesla is
1:32:26kind of in the pole position to be one
1:32:28of those companies.
1:32:31So, there's Appronic out of Austin. Yes,
1:32:35Figure AI out of San Francisco. Uh we
1:32:38technically have Boston Dynamics as
1:32:40well, which is a subsidiary of Hyundai.
1:32:42So it's not really an American company.
1:32:44We just don't have a lot yet in the US.
1:32:48So I think the companies that are in the
1:32:50US that are doing good work are going to
1:32:53have an inherent advantage because
1:32:55building out those supply chains and
1:32:57locking up those supply chains going
1:33:00through change transformation with the
1:33:01biggest companies on Earth. They want to
1:33:03be able to trust that they're locking
1:33:05into a company they're going to be
1:33:06partnered with for 10 or 15 or 20 years
1:33:08is a company that's going to be around
1:33:10in 10 or 15 or 20 years. So, they're not
1:33:12going to go work with another random
1:33:14startup.
1:33:15So, I think we're going to see some
1:33:17really exciting things happen over the
1:33:19next few years.
1:33:21And yes, I think Tesla has an
1:33:24opportunity to be one of the biggest
1:33:26companies in the world that's doing
1:33:27this, but they have to execute. Listen,
1:33:29Elon has not executed as well as people
1:33:36thought maybe he would on a handful of
1:33:38things, right, the last few years. And I
1:33:41think robotics is one of those things
1:33:43where it's not his fault necessarily,
1:33:45but I think his expectations for how
1:33:48quickly we can,
1:33:51you know, hit all the KPIs that you need
1:33:54to hit from a robot was never realistic.
1:33:57And so I think his expectations were off
1:34:00for his team. His team has cycled
1:34:02through a lot of leadership right at
1:34:04Optimus.
1:34:06And I want all the robot companies to
1:34:09win. I actually think that robotics will
1:34:13be maybe the number one
1:34:18way to democratize quality of life
1:34:22globally, especially across the third
1:34:24world because it gives us the ability to
1:34:26to lift the third world up. You know, in
1:34:29health care, it gives us the ability not
1:34:33just to help extend life, but
1:34:35dramatically improve life for those that
1:34:37can never afford to have a caregiver,
1:34:40right? Imagine having a thing that could
1:34:44do 99% of the stuff that you need done.
1:34:46Whether it's bringing food in that's
1:34:48being delivered, taking trash out, doing
1:34:50dishes, making sure the house is clean,
1:34:52helping you get to the bathroom, helping
1:34:54you get up from bed, washing your
1:34:56clothes, drying your clothes, getting
1:34:59your clothes, helping you get your
1:35:00clothes on. I mean, there's just an
1:35:03maybe you can now have a pet because it
1:35:05will help you take care of all the stuff
1:35:06that goes with having a pet that's
1:35:08difficult, which is super important. and
1:35:11that increases quality of life. Right?
1:35:13So this is obviously something I thought
1:35:16deeply about and
1:35:19it is massively beneficial to humanity
1:35:21if we can figure out this problem. So
1:35:24I'm not like a Tesla versus electronic
1:35:26versus figure guy versus China guy. I'm
1:35:29a I want everyone to win and I want this
1:35:32to to like accelerate as quickly as
1:35:36possible. and being an early investor um
1:35:39in
1:35:40>> in all the companies pretty much. Right.
1:35:42So,
1:35:42>> uh you have any idea on timing like when
1:35:45will we have a humanoid robot in our
1:35:47households?
1:35:49>> I think at some point in 2027 we're
1:35:53going to have a commercially scalable
1:35:56humanoid.
1:35:57>> Really? Next year. That doesn't mean
1:35:59that they will commercially scale, but
1:36:00we will have one that will be the
1:36:02template for one that can start
1:36:03commercially scaling in 2028. The value
1:36:07of those robots is so high that
1:36:11it would be wasteful to put them in
1:36:13people's houses because there will be
1:36:15companies that will pay 70 to 100,000 a
1:36:20year to to le to rent that robot, right?
1:36:23Uh and it's not even to have that robot
1:36:25then because they want every company
1:36:27wants to begin the journey of
1:36:30generalized robotics because if they
1:36:32fall too behind on that journey even if
1:36:35it's four or six years away when the
1:36:38scaling and the deployments actually
1:36:40start to meaningfully impact their
1:36:42business. If they don't start on day one
1:36:46their competitor does they will be left
1:36:49out. So, there's going to be massive
1:36:52demand for these robots once they're
1:36:54able to hit their KPIs.
1:36:56And
1:36:58I don't think any of the bleeding edge
1:37:00companies, I don't believe, we'll see,
1:37:03are going to allocate too many to home
1:37:05use unless they're trying to
1:37:09flex for some quick revenue or to like
1:37:13for an IPO or something. Like there are
1:37:16some strategic reasons why I could see
1:37:18them doing it because you can take a ton
1:37:19of pre-orders. You can like prove demand
1:37:21whereas commercial deployment requires a
1:37:24very slow growth even with one or two or
1:37:27three companies.
1:37:30I think we'll have the capabilities and
1:37:32the and the supply to have humanoids in
1:37:36the homes in like 6 to 10 years maybe
1:37:40earlier. maybe 5 to 10 years is that
1:37:43that's probably more realistic. I think
1:37:45initially there'll be companies that
1:37:47won't, you know, the humanoids maybe
1:37:49won't be quite as good or as durable.
1:37:52And by the way, I we might see them a
1:37:54lot sooner. We might see them in two or
1:37:55three years, but they'll be very
1:37:56experimental. They're not going to be
1:37:57like they're going to be like kind of
1:38:00good enough, right? You know, kind of
1:38:02good enough, but they're still learning.
1:38:04And remember, we have an we have a whole
1:38:05neural network foundation model on AI
1:38:08that's the brain of the robot that's
1:38:09still evolving. So like it's the
1:38:11hardware that is like almost there,
1:38:15but also on the software and on the
1:38:18model side that's also almost there. So
1:38:22neither is where they need to be and
1:38:24they both need to be there together.
1:38:26>> What do you think about Bitcoin?
1:38:28>> I just have never cared about Bitcoin
1:38:31other than the fact that other people
1:38:33care about Bitcoin. So, as long as other
1:38:36people care about Bitcoin and the
1:38:39younger generation does, which they do a
1:38:42little less now than they did the last
1:38:44six years, but that's all that matters
1:38:46to me because there's a hundred trillion
1:38:48dollars of wealth transfer. The money
1:38:51obviously transfers from old people to
1:38:53young people, younger people, and
1:38:55younger people are more into Bitcoin
1:38:58than old people. So, we don't have to
1:39:00overthink it. Whether they generally put
1:39:021% of their portfolio in Bitcoin or five
1:39:05doesn't really matter. There is an
1:39:08insane tailwind for Bitcoin that is
1:39:12almost unstoppable
1:39:15unless
1:39:16people lose their taste for Bitcoin
1:39:20because of security concerns, right?
1:39:23That that their Bitcoin is not capable
1:39:26of being protected. So, it's not a
1:39:28protectable safe asset. So they don't
1:39:30want to really put money in it. As long
1:39:33as that's not an issue, I think Bitcoin
1:39:36has a really strong tailwind. So as an
1:39:38investor, I see it as a direct
1:39:40beneficiary of the wealth transfer that
1:39:45is just starting to take place and will
1:39:47continue to take place over the next 20
1:39:49to 25 years. So that's my only that's
1:39:53been that's always been my Bitcoin trade
1:39:55and it continues to be my Bitcoin trade.
1:39:57I don't think about
1:39:58>> it's not about scarcity. It's not about
1:40:00printing money.
1:40:02>> All of that stuff is why other people
1:40:04invest in it. I don't care why they
1:40:06invest in it. All I care is that they
1:40:09think there's a reason to invest in it.
1:40:11>> So if enough people still
1:40:14think about Bitcoin as an asset class.
1:40:16>> That's right. I don't think there's any
1:40:18reason to invest in gold for the last 40
1:40:21years. But it doesn't matter what I
1:40:23think. If people think that gold is a
1:40:26safe haven in a, you know, crap hits the
1:40:30fan scenario in life,
1:40:33then they're going to invest some part
1:40:35of their portfolio in gold. And as
1:40:38people, as wealth as the wealth pie
1:40:40increased, there was more money over
1:40:42time put in gold and the price of gold
1:40:45goes up. I don't see this being any
1:40:47different with the exception of instead
1:40:50of having the occasional person that
1:40:52really cares about gold, nearly every
1:40:54young investor cares about crypto and
1:40:56Bitcoin. Not all of them, but most. So
1:41:00to me, that is the only thing that
1:41:03matters as an investor. I don't need to
1:41:05believe in Bitcoin. I don't need to
1:41:07believe in this use case or that use
1:41:10case. I don't want to waste any of my
1:41:12time even thinking about it. I'm not
1:41:15adverse against investing in it because
1:41:18other people care about that stuff and
1:41:20they are only going to get more wealthy
1:41:22over time. It it just is a proven fact
1:41:25that young people get more wealthy over
1:41:28the course of their life. They either
1:41:30get it through their work or they get it
1:41:32through inheritance. This is like not a
1:41:34complicated thing to understand. And we
1:41:37have a over a hundred trillion that
1:41:38needs to be transferred to them.
1:41:41>> Do you think wealth inequality is going
1:41:42to continue?
1:41:44Um,
1:41:46I hope not because
1:41:52you know I think the most important
1:41:54thing that we could do
1:41:56period, this is what all I care about
1:41:59talking about is to get every person
1:42:01investing. We need more people owning
1:42:04>> assets.
1:42:05>> Assets
1:42:06and not just assets. We need more people
1:42:09owning a share
1:42:12of the growth economy.
1:42:15What is that? It's called stocks. Okay.
1:42:18Uh and if we could do that one thing,
1:42:24all of our problems are solved when it
1:42:26comes to the wealth gap. I do not think
1:42:30we're going to be able to meaningfully
1:42:32solve the income gap. I just think it's
1:42:34too tough of a problem to solve. is too
1:42:37fragmented. Uh, and I don't think we
1:42:39need to solve it. I think we need to
1:42:41focus on the wealth gap. I, you know,
1:42:43whether someone loves or hates this
1:42:46current administration,
1:42:48they did, and and this is like both
1:42:51parties here working together. So, it's
1:42:53not everybody deserves credit for this.
1:42:56Uh that program where every child gets a
1:43:00brokerage account with $1,000 in it is
1:43:03the most genius thing that's ever
1:43:05happened in my lifetime. Like to like to
1:43:07in terms of like solving the wealth gap
1:43:10because now every single kid has an
1:43:13account and now other people like just
1:43:16give us a channel to help. That's the
1:43:18thing. Like now that they created that
1:43:19channel, you have these guys like Dell
1:43:22out there like donating billions of
1:43:25dollars into those accounts to double
1:43:27and triple them, right? And all these
1:43:29other philanthropists are out there
1:43:31finding like, you know, lowincome zip
1:43:33codes and just donating money into every
1:43:36kid's account. These kids are going to
1:43:39have meaningful money inside
1:43:42of the growth economy from the day they
1:43:46are born. I mean, if we were to go back
1:43:49in time and scratch social security, I
1:43:53think there's this thing that like
1:43:55Reagan or someone had an idea for
1:43:58allowing us to put 10% of our money
1:44:01instead of social security, it was going
1:44:02to go in the market.
1:44:05I saw a stat once of what that would
1:44:08have grown into today.
1:44:11And let me just tell you like if that
1:44:12would have been adopted universally,
1:44:15we would not have that big of a wealth
1:44:17gap today. Okay? We would not have that
1:44:19big of a wealth gap today. And so
1:44:22solving the problem isn't hard. We just
1:44:24need to execute on it. Like we know how
1:44:26to solve it. We already have the
1:44:29solution to the wealth gap. There's only
1:44:31one solution. The solution is to have
1:44:35everybody invested in the growth
1:44:36economy.
1:44:38End stop. That's the solution. Now,
1:44:41let's just do it. And and that one
1:44:43program to give every kid a brokerage
1:44:45account. Le let's fund them. Let's
1:44:47educate them. Let's fund them. Let's get
1:44:49kids excited about investing. Let's get
1:44:52old people excited about investing. It's
1:44:53never too late. Let's get everyone
1:44:55excited about investing, whether they're
1:44:57good or bad. which is get them to start
1:44:59putting more of their money because they
1:45:01have to believe that that's the
1:45:03solution.
1:45:05And by the way, once you do that, you
1:45:08start to democratize
1:45:11like opportunity in the market as well.
1:45:15So it becomes much harder for people to
1:45:20generate outsiz returns, right? If every
1:45:23like if there's that much more money
1:45:24flowing and that many more people that
1:45:26are involved and engaged in the market,
1:45:28we start to all get our fair share of
1:45:30it.
1:45:33So I don't really care if the top 1% or
1:45:36onetenth of 1% does so exceptionally
1:45:38well that they're still like way way way
1:45:40ahead of us. All I care about is how do
1:45:43we lift like the bottom 70% to get way
1:45:46way higher.
1:45:47>> Right. Yeah. And you're around some
1:45:48extraordinary wealthy people. Are most
1:45:51billionaires actually happy?
1:45:53>> Uh, I would say no. Um, I think just
1:45:57most people aren't happy. So,
1:46:00billionaires included. So, like I would
1:46:02just say most people as you age just
1:46:06aren't happy.
1:46:08>> Why is that?
1:46:09>> This is something I probably think about
1:46:11more than anything else. It's just
1:46:13really hard
1:46:15uh to kind of like ground yourself in
1:46:18life to things that matter because life
1:46:20is constantly trying to pull us to the
1:46:22things that don't matter. And so I do
1:46:27think there is an opportunity and I
1:46:29don't want to say like the problem is
1:46:31you said billionaire and billionaire
1:46:34creates problems 100 millionaire creates
1:46:37problems but if you would have asked me
1:46:39if people that are doing well
1:46:42financially
1:46:44and that are financially independent are
1:46:48more happy. I would say yes because once
1:46:52you're financially independent, it opens
1:46:55up headsp space to start to think about
1:46:58things that actually matter that you
1:47:00want to spend your time on. And that
1:47:03first level of realizing, wow, I got to
1:47:06get healthy. I want to spend time with
1:47:08my kids, with my family. Um, I want to
1:47:11connect with my friends more. Right?
1:47:13Like these are things that happen to
1:47:14you. But then when you become ultra
1:47:17wealthy, what I've seen, and this is not
1:47:20every case, there's some billionaires,
1:47:22I'm sure, are super happy. You
1:47:25It's hard to avoid, I think, the trap of
1:47:29more stuff, more problems. It's hard to
1:47:32stay say no to more stuff. It's just
1:47:35very hard when you just have access to
1:47:37infinite stuff. And when you have access
1:47:39to infinite stuff, it does bring more
1:47:43stress, more problems. When you are the
1:47:47individual with infinite money, it
1:47:49changes the incentives for those that
1:47:52are around you to engage with you. So I
1:47:54think your relationships change whether
1:47:57you want them to change or not. Uh, I
1:48:00think it gets really difficult to have
1:48:03meaningful, authentic friendships and
1:48:06relationships in life when people see
1:48:09you as an opportunity,
1:48:11even if they're doing that
1:48:13subconsciously,
1:48:15right? So, I think a lot of times it's
1:48:18not like people wanting to necessarily
1:48:19use you as much as it is
1:48:25I get to go on a better vacation with
1:48:27that person or we get to have better
1:48:30dinners or whatever that thing is. It's
1:48:33just sub it's just the way that the
1:48:35world works. So by being ultra wealthy,
1:48:41it just presents a set of problems that
1:48:44you almost can't avoid. And I think
1:48:47those things indirectly make your life
1:48:50worse because it it it makes your
1:48:56friendships, your connections less
1:48:58authentic, less real. It everything is
1:49:01worse at that point. So there's a sweet
1:49:04spot and the sweet spot is financially
1:49:08independent.
1:49:10So like once you and that means
1:49:12something different to every person but
1:49:14I would say that once you reach a point
1:49:16where you are financially independent
1:49:19and you are financially comfortable in
1:49:21perpetuity,
1:49:23figure out a way to put the brakes on,
1:49:25whatever that means. That could mean
1:49:28making less money. It can mean starting
1:49:30a charitable foundation and pushing all
1:49:32your excess capital to noble causes,
1:49:36right, that you no longer have access to
1:49:38that money. [sighs and gasps]
1:49:40It it could be pouring money into, you
1:49:44know, maybe other things that you want
1:49:46to do that are really exciting but take
1:49:48a tremendous amount of capital but are
1:49:51maybe super engaging and and allow you
1:49:53to do things in life but like you you're
1:49:55not just sitting on insane amounts of
1:49:57ridiculous cash.
1:49:59>> Is there something dumb that you've
1:50:00splurged on that you shouldn't have?
1:50:04Hm.
1:50:07I
1:50:09don't often splurge on things other than
1:50:12like we do spend a lot of money on like
1:50:16when we go on vacation. We like to stay
1:50:18in nice places as a family, but I mean
1:50:21that's pretty capped at like hard to
1:50:23spend more than $3,000 a night even at
1:50:25the nicest hotels in the world. Um, I'll
1:50:28never forget that like I felt the the
1:50:31most outlandish thing I've ever done in
1:50:33my lifetime with money was on this
1:50:35Biglio tile uh marble that we put in our
1:50:38master shower at my house. And and I
1:50:41became obsessed with trying to replicate
1:50:43this one tile that we had seen and it
1:50:46took us like a year to find something
1:50:48close to it and it was the most
1:50:49expensive marble I had ever come across.
1:50:54But it had gold streaks in it and like I
1:50:56didn't want to have like a Donald Trump
1:50:58shower. So what we did is my contractor
1:51:03had to buy [snorts]
1:51:05triple the amount of tile
1:51:06>> to not to find the pieces
1:51:08>> and cut the pieces so that there would
1:51:10be no go cuz like the blue marbling the
1:51:13blue gray marbling of this biglio t it
1:51:16was phenomenal but these nasty gold
1:51:20streaks that were coming through it
1:51:22again were like very 80s like I didn't
1:51:24want any of it and so the I won't even
1:51:27tell you what this [laughter] shower
1:51:28cost And then of course I wanted the
1:51:31tile to come outside the shower. So like
1:51:34when you're getting in it and it was
1:51:36like a whole big steam shower with
1:51:38multiple heads. So I I we did it and I
1:51:42was like this is the most ridiculous
1:51:46thing that I will ever do in my life
1:51:48when it comes to spending money is this
1:51:50shower. I was like the shower cost it
1:51:53was a big chunk of it wasn't a big chunk
1:51:55of the house but it's like it was a lot.
1:51:57It was obscene. It was an obscene amount
1:51:59of money and I felt so guilty and I was
1:52:01like but it was the type of thing that
1:52:03like happened over the course of a year
1:52:05was like a journey and then when you the
1:52:08the price of it finally hit at the end
1:52:10you were in way too deep to pull out but
1:52:13I still carry some guilt for the money I
1:52:15spent on that. I was like I could have
1:52:17done something
1:52:19noble with that money for someone that
1:52:21needed it.
1:52:23We all have our things, but but you
1:52:24know, stuff like that just makes me want
1:52:26to work harder because I'm like, if I'm
1:52:27going to do that for myself, now I got
1:52:29to do something way bigger for somebody
1:52:30else. Yeah.
1:52:31>> And for other people.
1:52:32>> Yeah. And we're going to talk about what
1:52:33you're what you're doing now. Um, let's
1:52:35let's go real quick to the Amazon trade.
1:52:37The Amazon trade,
1:52:39>> you made a lot of money in the Amazon
1:52:41trade. If I'm not mistaken, your account
1:52:43in one day went up like roughly $10
1:52:46million.
1:52:46>> Yeah. A little Yeah. Over the course of
1:52:48a couple days was like Yeah. Over 10
1:52:50million.
1:52:50>> Over $10 million. But I had I had lost
1:52:53like not quite that much uh but you know
1:52:55le a little less than that over the
1:52:57course of a few weeks prior to that. And
1:53:01so yeah, I was in a really bad place.
1:53:03But this is a trade I've been working on
1:53:05all year. And I had anticipated
1:53:09the move to happen prior to earnings.
1:53:12And so I lost a lot of money in options
1:53:15that were expiring prior to earnings.
1:53:17And I had one last shot for the trade to
1:53:19work. and I was going to take it. It
1:53:22would have been financially
1:53:23irresponsible for me not to take the
1:53:26shot uh with the amount of work I put
1:53:29into it because I knew I would not get
1:53:33a trade that was that high conviction
1:53:35again for a very long time. So, my
1:53:38account was beaten up, bleeding almost
1:53:42almost down almost down 50%.
1:53:45and over a few weeks and I took I took
1:53:49another big chunk of money uh which was
1:53:51like I say 20% but it's actually 20% of
1:53:53the bigger account. It was actually like
1:53:55another 20 so it was like almost was
1:53:57like a third of what I had left in the
1:53:59account on that one trade that was going
1:54:02to expire basically in one day and if
1:54:05Amazon didn't go up I would have lost
1:54:08all that money.
1:54:10So people look at that trade and they
1:54:12think that's degenerate behavior, but
1:54:14they don't understand that this is
1:54:17inside of an account that is designed to
1:54:22take risk on things that I've done a lot
1:54:25of work on that I have high conviction
1:54:26on because I want to generate high
1:54:30returns on this account and that's what
1:54:32it's designed for. So it was the right
1:54:35trade for me. Okay? It's not necessarily
1:54:38the right trade for someone else's
1:54:40account, but it was the right trade for
1:54:42me. And
1:54:44you know, there was probably a 20%
1:54:47chance that that trade would have gone
1:54:49wrong due to things that were out of my
1:54:52control. And I knew that. So I knew even
1:54:55going into that trade, as high
1:54:56conviction as I was on it, I knew that
1:54:59there was a one in five chance that
1:55:01something could happen to the market
1:55:02that night, right? It could have been an
1:55:04administrative thing at the White House.
1:55:06It could have been something with Iran.
1:55:08It could have been some other news
1:55:10story. Um, Amazon could have had
1:55:13something cooking that was a big
1:55:16investment that investors would not have
1:55:18loved if they would have announced it on
1:55:19that earnings call. Something completely
1:55:22like offraar to me and other investors.
1:55:25I knew that was a possibility.
1:55:28But take those possibilities off the
1:55:30table. I was n over 99% sure of how that
1:55:33earnings call was going to go. Both in
1:55:35terms of them beating earnings, crushing
1:55:37earnings, and how Jasse, the CEO, was
1:55:40going to handle the call related to the
1:55:43most sensitive issues of increased capex
1:55:46spending, which is the only thing people
1:55:47cared about, which we already knew how
1:55:50to handle that from the Microsoft
1:55:51earnings call a couple days earlier.
1:55:54So, so it's like it was a calculated
1:55:58choice of mine and it was the biggest
1:56:01trading day of my life by far. By far. I
1:56:04I I I think the biggest day before that
1:56:06was a $5 million gain.
1:56:08>> And on Amazon, you this was you were
1:56:11using call options. This was up to prior
1:56:13to the earnings call. And so what did
1:56:16you observe? You observed that they were
1:56:18going to beat earnings because of AWS.
1:56:20What what was it? What was it that how
1:56:22did you observe that? What was your
1:56:23research? What was the catalyst?
1:56:25>> It was a it was a matrix approach,
1:56:27numerous different data sets and
1:56:30qualitative
1:56:32information that I was studying across
1:56:35developers. uh looking at the pricing of
1:56:39Amazon's
1:56:41uh compute that they were selling in the
1:56:43market, what the spot pricing was, like
1:56:45just knowing what all their contracts
1:56:46look like, like it it was like a big
1:56:49puzzle where everything fit and nothing
1:56:52didn't make sense
1:56:53>> and the market hadn't priced in that
1:56:55they were going to do have that
1:56:57aggressive of a beat.
1:56:58>> Correct. On our correct so the the
1:57:00market knew they would have a beat. I
1:57:03had high confidence that the beat was
1:57:06going to be larger than even the whisper
1:57:08number which was like 25%.
1:57:11>> And for people that don't know the
1:57:11whisper number, the whisper number is
1:57:12what the whisper is on the street before
1:57:15the earnings
1:57:15>> call. Yeah, I I I had fairly good
1:57:18confidence that they would beat that.
1:57:20But that almost didn't even matter as
1:57:21long as they hit that whisper number or
1:57:23higher, which is seems so obvious that
1:57:25they would. Uh it really came down to
1:57:27the call. How is Jasse going to handle
1:57:29the capex question? And he knew I mean
1:57:33we knew I he already had the
1:57:35information. He already saw how
1:57:37Microsoft answered it. He saw how the
1:57:39market respond to that. All he had to do
1:57:41is give his version of that which he
1:57:43did. And and and the version is
1:57:45basically this. You guys are so worried
1:57:47about this capex spend. But what you
1:57:50don't realize is that we have control
1:57:52over it. One, it's real because
1:57:55the demand is there. But you guys are
1:57:58all worried about the outlier situation
1:58:00where the whole market blows up and we
1:58:03just these con people default on their
1:58:05contracts with us because their
1:58:06companies are bleeding and all this
1:58:07stuff, right? He's like a big chunk of
1:58:11that capex is like equipment that we can
1:58:14maneuver around and delay and not and
1:58:17not take if that happens. So he's like
1:58:20you're worrying over not he didn't say
1:58:21it in these words but this is basically
1:58:24the messaging and it's very similar to
1:58:26the messaging that Microsoft gave and
1:58:28the market was like that's cool. So
1:58:30obviously Jasse was going to give his
1:58:31version of it. He did market loved it.
1:58:35They beat big. He handled the capex. I
1:58:37mean again none of this is like brain
1:58:39surgery. None of this is like like super
1:58:44difficult to kind of figure out,
1:58:47but the market is so distracted and
1:58:51they're so such a herd mentality.
1:58:52They're so surface layer. They're so
1:58:55looking at so many different things at
1:58:57every second of the day. Uh and also we
1:59:01just come off like a really meaningful
1:59:02big sell-off that was manipulated uh
1:59:05through a market liquidation of Leopold,
1:59:07right? which obviously is the the kid
1:59:09that turned, you know, few hundred
1:59:11million to 40 some odd billion and then
1:59:13lost it all, right? Or most of it that
1:59:15was publicly traded due to being
1:59:18overlevered and then the market, you
1:59:21know, started to fall apart and they
1:59:24they they they liquidated him and uh
1:59:28that was artificial. So like I knew that
1:59:30that liquidation was pretty much over as
1:59:32well. So like we had a lot of catalysts
1:59:34coming into play,
1:59:35>> right? But the difference is I don't
1:59:37think most people would have the balls
1:59:41to continue to put on those trades after
1:59:45losing what millions of dollars in the
1:59:47weeks prior.
1:59:48>> Most people wouldn't because most people
1:59:51aren't going to put in the work that I
1:59:52put in. You only gain conviction from
1:59:55the work you put in. 999
1:59:59out of a thousand investors right now
2:00:03are too lazy to do any of their own
2:00:05work. All they want to do is read what
2:00:07someone else puts on X or in an article.
2:00:10That's all they're willing to do. And
2:00:13then they're so freaked out when someone
2:00:15like me takes that big of a chance on a
2:00:18trade because they've never done any
2:00:21real work in their life when it comes to
2:00:22a trade. And when I say real work, I
2:00:24mean dozens and dozens of hours, if not
2:00:27a 100 plus hours on a trade. So they
2:00:30don't understand
2:00:34what conviction actually means. It's
2:00:36just a word to them. It's not a word to
2:00:39me.
2:00:40It's work that gets me there. So
2:00:46I'm proud of that trade. I'm proud to
2:00:49talk about it. I don't care if people
2:00:52think it's degenerate behavior. They're
2:00:55wrong. They don't understand the risk
2:00:57profile of the account that I made the
2:01:00trade in. They don't understand my trade
2:01:02strategy. I mean, I walked on the iced
2:01:05coffee or I walked through the ex total
2:01:07trade strategy
2:01:09and it was comprehensive.
2:01:14So, this is what I do. This is my job.
2:01:19Okay? like this is not a fun game for
2:01:21me. All right. So, like this is my job.
2:01:24So, I did get into like a lot of,
2:01:29you know, interactions with people,
2:01:31we'll just say, over the past few weeks
2:01:32about this trade that were negative and
2:01:35it just comes from them not knowing. And
2:01:38that's okay. I get it.
2:01:40>> How did it feel like when you saw the
2:01:43numbers go up on the screen, 10 million?
2:01:45I was driving to Austin and um I wasn't
2:01:50>> checking your phone like looking at the
2:01:51price.
2:01:52>> I was so nervous when I made the trade.
2:01:54That's when my stomach dropped and I was
2:01:56like I almost threw up. I was like cuz
2:01:59it's like dude I was like your account's
2:02:00getting crushed. You've done the work.
2:02:02You know you got to do the thing. You
2:02:04know you have to do the thing. Okay. But
2:02:08actually hitting the button and doing
2:02:09the thing is like oh like I can't
2:02:12believe I just did this. like you have
2:02:14to do it. Um
2:02:17it would have made me sick not to do it.
2:02:19In fact, I've said this like I like I I
2:02:22should have done it bigger.
2:02:23>> Yeah. You said I should have done it 30
2:02:25or 40 million.
2:02:26>> It should have been a $30 million plus
2:02:27day. I should have done it bigger, but
2:02:30at a certain point it's just there's
2:02:32it's very unnerving even for someone
2:02:34like me that's been doing this my entire
2:02:35life. You your portfolio size is this
2:02:38big, you know, like you know you know
2:02:41that it's a probability, right? So
2:02:43you're you're you're trading a pro. In
2:02:45my case, the probability was 8020. In my
2:02:47head, with my math, with my research, it
2:02:50was 8020. Now, that could be flawed or
2:02:53not, but that's what I believed it to
2:02:54be. There's still a 20 in there. 20 is
2:02:57one in five. Okay. So,
2:03:02you know, how much money are you willing
2:03:04to bet knowing that there's a one in
2:03:06five chance it's gone? Now, I knew that
2:03:10there was a four in five chance
2:03:13not just of it doubling, but doing
2:03:15something probably meaningfully better
2:03:16than doubling. So, if you know those
2:03:19odds, you got to take that bet. And you
2:03:23you you regret you're always going to
2:03:25regret not taking the bet bigger because
2:03:26you knew the odds. All right? So, like I
2:03:29knew the odds. It should have been a
2:03:30bigger bet, but I just I put on the bet
2:03:32that I did. But when when it happened, I
2:03:35was driving and I was like I was pretty
2:03:37calm and I saw it and I was like, "All
2:03:40right." You know, it it felt great
2:03:43because I I came off the big loss. I
2:03:45wanted to like I wanted my money back
2:03:48from that lo and then I got it back and
2:03:50plus plus.
2:03:51>> Were you like screaming with joy? Was it
2:03:53just like, "Okay, you look at your
2:03:54phone. All right."
2:03:55>> It was a good night. It was It was a
2:03:56good night.
2:03:56>> Was there a party? Was there a
2:03:58celebration?
2:03:59>> There was no
2:03:59>> Did you pop some champagne?
2:04:01>> No. So So I went
2:04:02>> 10 million in a day. I I so it was fun
2:04:04because I got to go out with my buddy
2:04:07Matthew Vauovich in Austin and um I
2:04:12texted him on the way down and I said,
2:04:14"Hey dude, I was like, "I want to get
2:04:16margs on this patio in Austin. I just
2:04:20seen a TikTok. This girl telling me how
2:04:22good these margaritas were." I was like,
2:04:23"I hadn't had a margarita all summer on
2:04:24a patio." I was like I was like I didn't
2:04:27tell him what was going on, but I was
2:04:28like, "You're getting a drink with me on
2:04:29a patio." We got there. I sat. We once
2:04:32we got the margarita, I'm like, "Dude, I
2:04:35got to tell you what just happened." And
2:04:37and we we did have a night. We did have
2:04:39a night. It was a fun night. But like
2:04:42that next morning, I'm at this I was
2:04:44still on a high. The next morning I'm at
2:04:46a coffee shop and Amit calls me, you
2:04:48know, from X. Uh and and I'm like, he's
2:04:52like, "What happened?" I was like,
2:04:52"Dude, I can't believe it happened."
2:04:54He's like, "You're on the live stream."
2:04:56Like, "Dude, I'm on." And so we talked
2:04:57for like 30 and this is where hit
2:04:59the fan, right? This this is where it
2:05:00went cuz like this is where I'm like I'm
2:05:03on the phone with my buddy on it. Okay.
2:05:05So like I'm not like yes it's a live
2:05:08stream. I know I'm on his live stream
2:05:10but I'm not like worried about saying
2:05:12the wrong thing. Someone's going to like
2:05:14misinterpret it. I'm just on the phone
2:05:16with my buddy telling him about he knows
2:05:18how what I do. He knows the time I put
2:05:20into my trades, my risk management, all
2:05:22this stuff. So like I'm talking very
2:05:25casually. I'm having fun, man. I'm at a
2:05:28coffee shop. I'm walking around. I 1.2
2:05:31Two million people watched that live
2:05:33stream and it started this avalanche of
2:05:36dude that guy's so irresponsible like
2:05:39like what was he doing? He's a
2:05:40degenerate and like they don't know me
2:05:42cuz at one point that's a lot of people
2:05:44a lot of them are hearing me for the
2:05:45first time.
2:05:47But it was a it was a fun day. I still
2:05:50feel good. I still feel good. I still
2:05:52feel really good about it. Right. And uh
2:05:55I'll tell you man like being an investor
2:05:58is a roller coaster. like it. And it's
2:06:01I I'm I love the good times, man. I I I
2:06:04I love the win. Not it's not for the
2:06:06money for me. Like I said, I'm at a
2:06:08point where it's not it's never about
2:06:10the money cuz my money is oriented
2:06:13towards other stuff that that really
2:06:16doesn't benefit me. Okay? So, like when
2:06:18I do something, I'm happy for the things
2:06:20I'll be able to do in the world
2:06:22hopefully. But it's about get in the
2:06:25win, dude. This is a gota for me. This
2:06:28is a game. Like, it's a g it's a game I
2:06:30take seriously. It's my job and I want
2:06:34to make money to do good things with
2:06:35that money for the world, but it's a
2:06:38game of chess and like I like it when I
2:06:42put the work in and I get it right. Um,
2:06:46and even when you get it right,
2:06:47sometimes you lose the money because
2:06:49there's things out of your control like
2:06:50we're saying.
2:06:52But I do like it. It's fun for me, man.
2:06:56If you can't have fun, dude, like, dude,
2:06:59if I can't have fun at this, I've been
2:07:01grinding since I was 12 years old. I've
2:07:03been working four jobs since all through
2:07:05high school, college. Like, I was never
2:07:07not working. Multiple jobs. Like, my
2:07:11whole life has been grinding, grinding,
2:07:14grinding to make it, starting companies,
2:07:16failure, failure, success, failure.
2:07:19Like, I'm tired. Like, at this point, I
2:07:22want to have more fun with my investing.
2:07:25And that's why I do podcasts. I like
2:07:27talking about it. I like seeing the
2:07:28younger investors getting involved. Like
2:07:31I want to share with them that the
2:07:33success when I have it. Like and it's
2:07:35fun being part of a like I said I was
2:07:36never part of an investment community.
2:07:38Now I'm part of it. You know how cool it
2:07:40is that we have like something like 40
2:07:42million new retail traders in the US and
2:07:45like half of them are on X. I hate that
2:07:48they're just talking about the same 10
2:07:50stocks all the time. I hate that they're
2:07:52doing all the dumb stuff they do, but I
2:07:54know they're young and they've got to go
2:07:55through their phases. I just love that
2:07:58we have this now because like so many
2:08:01other,
2:08:02you know, hobbies or whatever you want
2:08:04to call them, they have their people. I
2:08:08sometimes feel like being an investor
2:08:11and being on X is like being in a movie.
2:08:14It's just like it's a culture. It's like
2:08:16it's not just a community. It's like a
2:08:18whole subculture of people and they're
2:08:21crazy, man. Like, like these
2:08:23people, they don't even have a life
2:08:24outside of investing. Like I feel
2:08:26because now you can invest 24/7. Add
2:08:28crypto to that, dude.
2:08:31It's It's actually insane. I'm glad that
2:08:33that's not the way it was when I was in
2:08:35the weeds of investing cuz like I
2:08:37actually think it's unhealthy. Like I'm
2:08:40I'm actually nervous for a lot of these
2:08:41young investors that they are not that
2:08:45they're developing bad behavior that
2:08:47they're not like living real life for
2:08:51themselves because they're so
2:08:52obsessively trading 24 hours a day. I'm
2:08:55really concerned that if they have
2:08:57families, they're like their mind is not
2:09:00where their kids are because they feel
2:09:02like they have to be in tune with
2:09:04investing at all times. I hate that. I
2:09:07think the market should be open half the
2:09:11time it's open today. I think the market
2:09:13should be open like four hours. We can
2:09:15get everything done in four hours.
2:09:17There's no reason for the market to be
2:09:19open from like 9:30 Eastern to 4. That's
2:09:23crazy. Most of the action and liquidity
2:09:27happen on market open and market close,
2:09:30right?
2:09:32Let's just condense that. We don't need
2:09:34more than four hours.
2:09:36We need people doing more research on
2:09:40the companies that they want to invest
2:09:42in as opposed to watching a screen of
2:09:46random people trading all day and just
2:09:50trying to pretend that they could game
2:09:51that and get in front of it. That's
2:09:54unhealthy. That that I don't like. And
2:09:56now we're going to make trading 24 hours
2:09:58a day. It kind of already is. I would
2:10:01rather have us
2:10:04make our moves three or four hours
2:10:07during the day and then spend the rest
2:10:09of your time actually doing the real
2:10:12hard work of figuring out where the
2:10:14alpha is. Figuring out who is going to
2:10:17benefit, who's going to be harmed from
2:10:19the world changing in whatever way it's
2:10:21changing, whether it's technology or
2:10:25culture, behavior, whatever, right? like
2:10:27that's that's that's how we should be
2:10:30thinking as investors. Instead, it's the
2:10:32opposite. But by the way, because it's
2:10:34that way, there's opportunity
2:10:38for people that don't get caught up in
2:10:40that herd behavior and all the noise.
2:10:43That's why I'm able to still do this.
2:10:45Yeah, there's more investors than there
2:10:46ever have been, but they're all doing
2:10:48stupid crap, okay? Like all the time. So
2:10:51it's like yeah my competition has like
2:10:54increased by like 100x but most of that
2:10:58is just herd mentality and which by the
2:11:01way feeds on itself feeds on itself.
2:11:06Okay, I want to get to the envelope here
2:11:08and your stock pick, but before we do, a
2:11:09couple last things. With AI coming into
2:11:11the mix, is that going to kill the edge
2:11:14that you have? Meaning, are there going
2:11:16to be swarms of AI agents that are doing
2:11:19this type of observational research and
2:11:24smarter than all humans or all humans
2:11:26combined, and there's going to be a lot
2:11:27less edge for you. Are you worried about
2:11:29that?
2:11:30>> I'm not worried about it, but I think
2:11:33it's an inevitability.
2:11:35I just don't know the timeline.
2:11:39The timeline for that could be a few
2:11:43years or a lot of years. Like it could
2:11:46be 10, 15 years out. So
2:11:51I do know we at least have two or three
2:11:54or four years or five left that we don't
2:11:56need to be concerned about it. That's
2:11:58what my gut tells me. So when it
2:12:01happens, it happens. I won't I won't be
2:12:04impacted by that point. I'll be down to
2:12:07doing 15 minutes of I mean at some point
2:12:10I got to stop spending half my life
2:12:13reading Tik Tok comments, right? To find
2:12:15edge in the market. I'm not right. I'm
2:12:18I'm getting too old for this. So, but
2:12:21yeah, I I do think I do think as an
2:12:23investor, it's really important to get
2:12:26serious now, the next five years,
2:12:29because I don't know how long the window
2:12:33is going to stay open for,
2:12:36>> right? Yeah. Because and and you're
2:12:38already using AI to help inform some of
2:12:40your process.
2:12:41>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I
2:12:43>> Okay, someone finishes this episode,
2:12:45they have $1,000, right? They're like,
2:12:47"Hey, I want to I want to be like Chris,
2:12:50right?" What's the first thing they
2:12:52should do tomorrow morning? Start
2:12:53observing.
2:12:55>> Yes. So, I'm not an investment advisor,
2:12:56but what I do tell people is that you're
2:12:59not in this alone. There are people like
2:13:01myself that have been doing this a long
2:13:03time. So, you do not have to learn every
2:13:06lesson yourself the hard way. You're
2:13:09going to learn some the hard way,
2:13:11meaning you're going to lose money, but
2:13:14find out who the real people are in this
2:13:17space.
2:13:18Follow them, right? And listen to them.
2:13:22I've done thousands and thousands of
2:13:24hours of content over the past seven
2:13:27years. And
2:13:30I mean honestly like if you even watch a
2:13:32small fraction of it,
2:13:36you probably accelerated your journey by
2:13:38a decade. Uh and then there are other
2:13:41people that have different thoughts and
2:13:43maybe some different strategies.
2:13:46Find out who the real people are.
2:13:50Listen to them and
2:13:53start on your journey right away. Like
2:13:54just start. Just start. Don't do
2:13:56anything stupid, but start. You need to
2:13:59understand the consequences of your
2:14:01action. You need to understand
2:14:04when you actually have high conviction
2:14:06and when you don't because your mind is
2:14:08going to play tricks on you as an
2:14:10investor and you're going to want to
2:14:12believe in something. That's the biggest
2:14:16pitfall that I see young investors
2:14:17falling into
2:14:19is they just want to believe. They
2:14:22become obsessive
2:14:25about their trade thesis or their stock
2:14:29and they just don't want to admit to
2:14:31themselves that they were wrong even
2:14:33when new information surfaces that
2:14:36clearly
2:14:38shows them that they were wrong.
2:14:39>> Should they start with just investing in
2:14:41S&P 500 ETF?
2:14:44I you know like I said I I I don't give
2:14:45investment advice but what I would say
2:14:47is you're generally best off having
2:14:52money in the market no matter what that
2:14:56means. And so
2:14:58I think a fairly conventional
2:15:02uh uh method is if you don't know what
2:15:06to invest in, just be invested in the
2:15:09market, right? And then once you figure
2:15:11out what to invest in, you can take some
2:15:14money out of that and put it into
2:15:15something more concentrated. And
2:15:18obviously these low fee ETFs are
2:15:20wonderful because they're low fee,
2:15:22right? And just by being in the market,
2:15:25you're going to win over the long term.
2:15:29But I would say
2:15:31try to develop it as a hobby. Have fun
2:15:33with it. Spend some time not watching
2:15:38people that are basically copying and
2:15:42pasting the viral thing that they read
2:15:4515 minutes ago on X.
2:15:49Um, but try to find people that are
2:15:52independent thinkers that seem to be
2:15:54doing real work. And it's not hard to
2:15:57tell. Like when they tweet, when they
2:15:59put out reports, you're like, "Wow, this
2:16:01is like they're really indeed. Those are
2:16:04the people that you want to follow
2:16:06because
2:16:08they're the anomaly."
2:16:10I'm one of them, okay? But there are
2:16:12many others. And I even get great ideas
2:16:17from some of these other people because
2:16:20they're doing the hard work. Like there
2:16:21are some of them that are doing such
2:16:23hard work on the AI trade. They're going
2:16:28to China. They're visiting factories.
2:16:30Like they're talking to investors, you
2:16:33know, in China in Korea. They're
2:16:34checking supply chain.
2:16:37That's who you want to listen to.
2:16:39uh you want if like if you're trading
2:16:42the big AI stocks and you're trying to
2:16:44figure out are we in a bubble is this
2:16:47real is this going to like implode any
2:16:49minute or is there actual real durable
2:16:53demand
2:16:54for this compute because at the end
2:16:57client meaning the actual companies that
2:17:00are using AI to change their businesses
2:17:03they are seeing real value so that's the
2:17:06question you have to ask how are you
2:17:08going to answer that question. Who has
2:17:10the answer? The guy that has the answer
2:17:12or the woman that has the answer is
2:17:15probably the person who's working at
2:17:16that company. And there's tens of
2:17:20thousands of people that work at that
2:17:21company. You could probably find a few
2:17:23of them that like to share their ideas
2:17:26on X or maybe even on YouTube. So find
2:17:30them. And there's like dozens and dozens
2:17:32of those companies, right? There's
2:17:34hundred thousands of them, right? So go
2:17:37to the source of the people that
2:17:39actually have the information that can
2:17:42tell you what you need to know to gain
2:17:45confidence in putting your money behind
2:17:48a thesis. In this case, artificial
2:17:51intelligence being real
2:17:54demand for this going to increase year
2:17:57over year over year. And then you know
2:18:00the degree to which compute is going to
2:18:03remain scarce or not. That's a whole
2:18:05another question, right? You have to
2:18:07figure out is a Chinese open model going
2:18:10to eliminate the need for compute or
2:18:13not. I'm at the conclusion that it
2:18:16won't. But you have to like read a lot
2:18:19of really smart people talking about
2:18:21that issue until you can come up with
2:18:24your own decision if compute will remain
2:18:27scarce or not going forward. But if you
2:18:30believe compute will remain scarce and
2:18:32the demand for compute is going to
2:18:34continue to grow, then the AI trade
2:18:37becomes really interesting to you and
2:18:40you get a lot more conviction to take
2:18:42your money out of the broad market and
2:18:47put it into companies or a sector that
2:18:50is likely to grow quicker than the broad
2:18:52market, right? That for the last few
2:18:54years has accounted for all the growth
2:18:56broad market. But then remember there's
2:18:58other trades as well like the the AI
2:19:00efficiency wave that I talked about
2:19:02where if that's correct the broad market
2:19:04will benefit from it. But why invest in
2:19:07the broad market if you already know
2:19:08that the companies that will benefit
2:19:10most are the ones with the biggest
2:19:11distribution modes. Right? So let's find
2:19:13the ones with the biggest distribution
2:19:14modes and invest maybe just in them.
2:19:18That's what I'm doing with Amazon
2:19:19because I think Amazon has the biggest
2:19:20distribution mode. Do
2:19:21>> you have 70% of your portfolio in Amazon
2:19:23right now?
2:19:23>> Not anymore because I took off a lot of
2:19:25that leverage. Right. So, I'm still
2:19:28heavily invested in Amazon and I have
2:19:31some leverage. It it it it fluctuates.
2:19:36Um,
2:19:37but it's still like one of my favorite
2:19:40positions. I'm still heavily invested in
2:19:43Bloom Energy, which I believe is the
2:19:45quickest way to provide energy to the
2:19:48data centers that are in uh a supply
2:19:52glut of energy, right? Especially now
2:19:54that everyone says bring your own
2:19:55energy. we can let you tap into the
2:19:57grid. Uh it's a misunderstood company.
2:20:00It's volatile, but it's still a big
2:20:02holding of mine as well. Um I'm still a
2:20:05big believer in Robin Hood. I think that
2:20:08it's the best managed financial
2:20:10institution in the world and I think
2:20:13that Robin Hood will has a good shot at
2:20:16becoming the largest financial
2:20:17institution in the world in the next 20
2:20:18years.
2:20:20And it's not a company I even think
2:20:22about every day. It's just one that I
2:20:25know is misunderstood.
2:20:27So, but everyone has to come up with
2:20:29their own conviction because if you
2:20:33don't, when things go wrong, and they
2:20:36always do for short periods of time,
2:20:38whether it's Amazon, Bloom Energy, Robin
2:20:40Hood, the three I just talked about,
2:20:42there will be a moment in time when
2:20:44things go terribly wrong, whether
2:20:46they're actually going wrong or whether
2:20:48the market thinks they're going wrong,
2:20:50when these stocks are going to get hit.
2:20:52you're going to freak out and be like,
2:20:54"I was wrong. I must have been wrong
2:20:56because now the stocks are getting hit."
2:20:57And then you sell your position and
2:20:59then, you know, days to a few weeks
2:21:01later, they pop back up. You're like,
2:21:02"Oh no, I sold when it was down. Now I
2:21:05got to buy back." And that's how you
2:21:07lose a lot of money in the market
2:21:09because you never did the work to begin
2:21:11with. You were just following some guy
2:21:12like me and then when it didn't go well,
2:21:17you didn't even know what you were
2:21:18invested or why you were invested in it.
2:21:20So, you didn't know whether to to hold
2:21:22or sell, and you made a bad decision.
2:21:24You probably make a lot of bad decisions
2:21:25when you don't have conviction.
2:21:27>> Yeah. All right. Last question before
2:21:28you open that envelope, which is
2:21:31>> tell me a little bit about your
2:21:32foundation. Tell me a little bit about
2:21:34the what you're building with the
2:21:36podcast, with the studio, because I want
2:21:38to know about a little bit more about
2:21:39your motivation, what you're kind of
2:21:40what you have planned for in the future.
2:21:42>> You know, on the foundation,
2:21:45I I don't overthink it. Like I said, I
2:21:47think it's it's something I've been
2:21:48thinking about. I've been wanting to do
2:21:49my entire life and I'm finally in a
2:21:51position to do it is to like start doing
2:21:53things for others. And my family were
2:21:56really passionate about
2:21:59uh
2:22:01elder care, about pediatric care, uh
2:22:04about animal welfare. So, there's some
2:22:08areas that we just want to give back
2:22:09into. So, why not give back big? Uh, I'm
2:22:12really fortunate that I've been able to
2:22:14form really close relationships with
2:22:16some philanthropies I really believe in.
2:22:19They're doing good, like really
2:22:21efficient work, and I just want to give
2:22:23them as much money as possible. I had a
2:22:26lot a really special opportunity this
2:22:29last year. Uh, Mr. Beast invited me to
2:22:33fly to Africa to go to Ghana with him
2:22:36and his uh, beast philanthropy. And I
2:22:39got to spend time on the cacao farms
2:22:42really learning about child labor and
2:22:45how big of a problem it was globally.
2:22:48Spent a tremendous amount of time with
2:22:50his team. And now I'm hellbent on like
2:22:55joining forces with them to end child
2:22:57labor globally because they have this
2:22:59master plan which is wildly
2:23:03strategic unlike anything anyone's ever
2:23:06tried to do before. I know a lot of
2:23:09people don't fully appreciate a lot of
2:23:11the stuff that that that Jimmy's trying
2:23:13to do in the world, but I have never
2:23:16believed in a team more than this team
2:23:18in terms of their capabilities
2:23:21and what they can achieve on a global
2:23:24level. So, I'm like, I need to give them
2:23:26a lot more money, too. So,
2:23:29I'm like, I think I'm in a position to
2:23:31generate a lot of capital, and I want to
2:23:33generate it for good causes. That's all.
2:23:35It's it's just very simple. AI is making
2:23:38intelligence abundant like we know that
2:23:40now right like that that's obvious uh
2:23:44trust uh one's likability and
2:23:47relationships
2:23:49will always be scarce like AI will not
2:23:53make a dent in any of those things
2:23:56scarcity is where the value is always
2:23:58going to go so I think it's really
2:24:01important for young people to truly
2:24:04understand
2:24:06that more than anything else, they need
2:24:08to build authentic relationships in
2:24:11their life and that needs to be priority
2:24:14number one for them. I think it's what's
2:24:16going to ultimately get them into every
2:24:19room that they want to be in. Whether
2:24:22it's the job they want to get, whether
2:24:25it's the pitch meeting, they're starting
2:24:27a company.
2:24:29Uh I mean, think about it. You're you're
2:24:32interviewing two people and they're
2:24:33identical
2:24:35in terms of skill set. One of them you
2:24:38don't know. Uh one of them you know you
2:24:42know they're a likable person, right?
2:24:45You trust that person because there's
2:24:46someone that is in your network, right?
2:24:50Someone in your network has told you,
2:24:52"Hey, I've known this person for years.
2:24:54They're really trustworthy. I love them.
2:24:56They're likable." That's a person you
2:24:58want at your company, right? who's going
2:25:00to have the edge. This is again very
2:25:02simple stuff. Uh in a world where
2:25:05everything else seems to get
2:25:06democratized, meaning I just need
2:25:08someone to learn these things, to help
2:25:10work with our AI to accomplish these
2:25:12things. And it's extremely difficult to
2:25:14assess if that person's better than that
2:25:17person at doing that. It will always
2:25:19fall back to these intangibles, right?
2:25:22And the only way that you can show that
2:25:25you have those
2:25:28uh traits
2:25:30is by having authentic relationships
2:25:32with people that can stand up for you
2:25:34and say, "Hey, I vouch for this person."
2:25:37And that's just extremely important. Um
2:25:41I I think even more important
2:25:45is the concept of being a creator. Okay,
2:25:50being a creator is not about creating
2:25:53content. Okay, it is for some people.
2:25:56Okay, but like when I talk about being a
2:25:58creator, like everyone, every human
2:26:02needs to be a creator. Creating is
2:26:04basically just a machine for scaling
2:26:08familiarity, right? For scaling
2:26:12likability and scaling trust. So like
2:26:15it's a way to have infinite scale around
2:26:19those scarce traits that you can also
2:26:22build through authentic relationships,
2:26:24but the only way to actually scale them
2:26:26in a broad way is through your content.
2:26:30And so it's crazy to me to be a young
2:26:32person right now and not get out there
2:26:35and start creating content because it
2:26:37doesn't have to be a job. It doesn't
2:26:38have to be for the money.
2:26:41It's because it's the literally the only
2:26:43way that you can put yourself out there
2:26:46and prove that you are a likable person.
2:26:50You're a trustworthy person. You start
2:26:51developing these parasocial
2:26:53relationships with other humans. And it
2:26:55ultimately will inevitably always open
2:26:58up doors for you in life. I have not met
2:27:01a single content creator ever. And I've
2:27:04been talking to content creators and
2:27:05been friends with them for a decade now
2:27:07that hasn't said that content creation
2:27:09has done more for them than anything
2:27:12else in life beyond any amount of money
2:27:14they made from the content. Has nothing
2:27:15to do with the money they made just in
2:27:17terms of connectivity, opening doors,
2:27:21initiating relationships with people. So
2:27:24that to me is the most important thing
2:27:26in the world. I also think in an AI
2:27:29world, there's a massive thirst for like
2:27:33the real raw human voice, like people
2:27:37that are more there's some people that
2:27:39are more human than others. Okay, we
2:27:41know that. So, I have this passion for
2:27:46kind of getting more into the content
2:27:48game. I'm opening up a studio in Austin
2:27:50and you know we found a content creator
2:27:54who we believe has like the most
2:27:59human
2:28:01truly authentic transparent
2:28:04voice that is
2:28:07relatable
2:28:08and positive, right? That could really
2:28:13create positive change. and we're going
2:28:17to try to expand this person's platform
2:28:19through podcasting. Uh, you know, part
2:28:22of the issue with content creators are
2:28:24there are so many that are so amazing,
2:28:26but they're usually solo creators. and
2:28:29taking that leap from being a solo
2:28:32creator to a repeatable, durable
2:28:37podcaster where you're actually
2:28:40meaningfully putting out regular content
2:28:42into the world on a regular basis as
2:28:45opposed to being so fragmented and
2:28:48reliant upon whatever Tik Tok you're
2:28:50doing that day and what the algorithm
2:28:52wants to show.
2:28:54It's there's a lot of friction involved
2:28:56with that. There's cameras, right?
2:28:59There's equipment, there's lighting,
2:29:02there's operators, there's editing,
2:29:05there's clipping, there's studios,
2:29:07there's money involved. Uh, a lot of
2:29:11young women in particular are afraid of
2:29:15that friction and they're afraid of the
2:29:17financial risk that comes with trying to
2:29:19launch a podcast. So, we thought, hey,
2:29:22let's find the most talented woman
2:29:24creator we can who has not yet moved
2:29:28into the podcast genre and try to do
2:29:31something really special. So, that's
2:29:32what we're doing in Austin. It's a
2:29:34really fun thing. I'm also doing a
2:29:36spin-off of my show, Dumb Money Live.
2:29:38That is going to be the funnest thing
2:29:40I've ever done in my life for myself.
2:29:43I'm so ecstatic about it that I haven't
2:29:46talked about like no one really knows
2:29:47except my my bis my YouTube partners. Um
2:29:51but I just realized that like I'm having
2:29:54more fun with content than I even have
2:29:56with investing. It's the only thing
2:29:58where I've ever like experienced more
2:30:01joy than the joy of like searching for
2:30:04gold with the next big investment and
2:30:08then hitting it. You know what I'm
2:30:09saying? like and I think the reason why
2:30:12is because I'm at a point in my life
2:30:14where I realize that the most fulfilling
2:30:17joyful thing is connections with people
2:30:20and so content as I said allows you to
2:30:22connect with more people more often and
2:30:26so I just want to go deeper into a world
2:30:28that gives something back to me and
2:30:32where also I can give something to other
2:30:34is a spin-off of Dumb Money where you're
2:30:35going to have
2:30:36>> it's a spin-off of Dumb Money but it is
2:30:38so different than dumb money. This is
2:30:40has nothing to do with investments.
2:30:43>> I'll just
2:30:44>> It's you in your kitchen,
2:30:46>> dude. I'm telling you, [laughter]
2:30:48I could be wrong, but if we execute on
2:30:52this show, it's going to be so fun. Uh
2:30:56it's just going to be so fun. Like for
2:30:58me, I'm ready to do something a little
2:30:59more fun and I can't wait. So like you
2:31:03you know, like I'm all about like
2:31:05culture. Uh, and I think this like hits
2:31:09youth culture especially right where it
2:31:12is right now. And it's something that no
2:31:14one has exposed before in terms of
2:31:16culture. And I want this show to expose
2:31:19it. I I I'll just leave it at that.
2:31:21>> See it? Text it to me when you have. Is
2:31:23it have anything to do with shoes?
2:31:25>> It has nothing to do with shoes.
2:31:27[laughter] As you know, like like this
2:31:29is what's so crazy. I spent five almost
2:31:31five years building Collecton, the
2:31:32world's largest Pokemon conference. We
2:31:34sold it a few months ago to Ari Emanuel
2:31:36and it's like was the biggest exit I've
2:31:38ever had in my life. I don't collect
2:31:40Pokemon cards. [laughter] I spent years
2:31:43at Pokemon conferences with hundreds of
2:31:45thousands of people hanging out with
2:31:47Pokemon collectors and I'm like, dude,
2:31:49this is crazy. I enjoy it cuz I thought
2:31:53the people were awesome, but the
2:31:55underlying Pokemon, it was after my
2:31:58youth, right? So, like I never got into
2:32:00Pokemon. This is something I'm gonna
2:32:03have fun with. I'll just I'll just gonna
2:32:04leave it at that.
2:32:05>> I love it. I love it. Okay, I want to
2:32:07unveil the stock we have in this
2:32:09envelope. Demetri, can you please pull
2:32:10this out? Okay, so this is a stock that
2:32:13it's a secret stock you haven't talked
2:32:15about before publicly. You're watching
2:32:17it right now. You haven't put the
2:32:18position on yet, but this is the the
2:32:21type of stock that you're observing.
2:32:23You're in the observation phase and
2:32:25you're doing your homework on and you
2:32:26may put a position on. This is the type
2:32:28of investment where the position
2:32:30fluctuates
2:32:32day by day and I could be out of it
2:32:35completely and then short the stock
2:32:39a minute after I'm long the stock,
2:32:40right? Depending on new information
2:32:42coming to light because the the
2:32:43information is coming quick, right? It's
2:32:45a fun one. It's a fun one because a lot
2:32:49of my background is trading video games
2:32:54and video game console makers back from
2:32:57the very earliest days of consoles and
2:33:00video games. It's some of my biggest
2:33:02trades.
2:33:02>> All right, and let's and let's so let's
2:33:03unveil it. So, this is the one stock
2:33:05that we're talking about now that you
2:33:07haven't talked about publicly. You put a
2:33:08small position on, but you're we're
2:33:10going to see what happens. And the stock
2:33:11is Take 2 Interactive. The ticker is
2:33:14TTWO.
2:33:15>> That's right. Tell me about it. Tell me
2:33:17about the thesis there.
2:33:18>> Everybody knows Grand Theft Auto GTA 6.
2:33:22We've been waiting 13 years. It's maybe
2:33:25the biggest
2:33:27release of an entertainment product in
2:33:29human history. It's one of the biggest
2:33:33cultural releases that we will see in
2:33:35our lifetime. It's huge. Basically,
2:33:38every guy is going to be doing nothing
2:33:41but playing this game from November
2:33:43through the end of the year. Okay. So,
2:33:46the big question is, cuz Take 2 has like
2:33:49the entire company hinging on the
2:33:51success or failure of this game, is it
2:33:54priced in? And where's the new
2:33:56information that's going to make us want
2:33:57to own it or sell it?
2:34:00The game is priced in. Okay, Grand Theft
2:34:04Auto 6 is fully priced in. What is not
2:34:07priced in is the ultimate
2:34:14success or failure of the game. Okay?
2:34:18Because the game
2:34:20can do exceptionally well, better than
2:34:23anyone ever thought it would be. And
2:34:25what I mean by that is if the game play
2:34:28is truly amazing, if they deliver a
2:34:34living world, right? If they truly can
2:34:37deliver a immersive living world that
2:34:39you never want to leave, the
2:34:41modernization opportunities within that
2:34:44world will be endless. That is not
2:34:47priced in yet. Nor do we know that that
2:34:50will be the world that they're creating.
2:34:54If they don't deliver that world,
2:34:58it's stock is probably too high.
2:35:02>> So this is like a little bit of a binary
2:35:04event. is this is where you learn by
2:35:06going on Tik Tok starting to listen to
2:35:08all these people talking about it and
2:35:09they're and all these people are maybe
2:35:10saying, "Oh, I'm buying this in the app.
2:35:12I'm buying this in the app."
2:35:13>> So, a lot of things are happening like
2:35:14they're about to release the first
2:35:16gameplay footage in a Netflix special,
2:35:19which is just crazy in itself, right?
2:35:21Like that's about to happen. Uh, but
2:35:23there was a huge leak this last week of
2:35:26gameplay. So, there was a hacker who
2:35:28hacked into the game, which is
2:35:29unprecedented
2:35:31and is leaking footage every day. Now,
2:35:37the stock got hit on that, but some
2:35:39people can say that it's actually
2:35:41benefiting the game because it's driving
2:35:43a tremendous amount of conversation,
2:35:44hype. I don't really care about that one
2:35:47way or the other. But I care about, and
2:35:50by the way, the reason why he hacked the
2:35:52game is because this is one of the first
2:35:55big big games to be released only
2:35:58through digital, meaning there's no hard
2:36:00copy of the game that you can actually
2:36:04buy and hold, right? So, you got to
2:36:05digitally download it.
2:36:07So, what I care about is do people like
2:36:12what they're seeing in these in this
2:36:14release footage or not? So, I've been
2:36:16obsessive reading through every single
2:36:18comment of a normal person, a normal
2:36:21gamer, not an investor in take two. I
2:36:23don't care about those guys. I'm only
2:36:25looking at people that are just saying,
2:36:27"I love it or hate it." And the
2:36:30consensus has been positive.
2:36:32>> They love it.
2:36:33>> Based on what they can see, they tend to
2:36:35love it. But, but it's not clear yet.
2:36:37It's not clear. Okay.
2:36:39>> Because they're just seeing screenshots.
2:36:40They're not playing it yet. It's it's
2:36:41it's more Well, they're watching
2:36:44>> Oh, it's a video.
2:36:45>> This guy play it. Yeah. Oh, really?
2:36:46Okay.
2:36:46>> So So there's more love than hate.
2:36:49>> So which is why I opened my position as
2:36:51a long position. But again, as more
2:36:54footage comes out, I could change. I can
2:36:57shift. I can I can I can start to sell
2:36:59off my position. I could add to my
2:37:01position. It's totally dependent on how
2:37:04the information shifts every hour of
2:37:06every day from now until the game
2:37:09ultimately comes out because that's all
2:37:12that matters to me. But this is the type
2:37:14of social orb trade that I love because
2:37:16there's a lot of noise, a lot of noise,
2:37:18but I know that the only thing that
2:37:20actually matters is gameplay. And I'm
2:37:23willing to go in deeper on take two if
2:37:27the game play materializes as a world
2:37:30that people don't want to leave. And if
2:37:33it doesn't materialize as that, I'm out.
2:37:36And maybe shorting the stock. So, so, so
2:37:38we're just going to have to wait and
2:37:39see.
2:37:40>> But yeah, this is a this is a big
2:37:41moment. And it's nostalgic for me
2:37:44because I traded
2:37:46I traded GTA 13 years ago. Okay. Like I
2:37:50like I I traded Take Two. I traded Take
2:37:53Two on every release. So, like I was a
2:37:56big trader in Take Two back before
2:37:58anybody cared about this stuff. So, it's
2:38:01pretty nostalgic for me. I mean, one of
2:38:03my biggest trades ever is tra, you know,
2:38:05I had 100% of my brokerage account in a
2:38:08in a foreign ADR of Nintendo stock cuz
2:38:11it didn't trade in the US exchange when
2:38:12they released the uh the Wii console for
2:38:16the first time. So, because I
2:38:19experienced it with my own hands, the
2:38:21same same way people experienced Tesla
2:38:23for the first time. I was one of the
2:38:25very few people that went to the E3
2:38:27conference that wasn't like a gaming
2:38:28person and actually experienced it. I
2:38:31was like, "No, no, no. People are
2:38:32underestimating this console. This is
2:38:34this is kind of a game changer." So,
2:38:36like I I love this stuff. It's just it's
2:38:39fun for me. That's why I used to trade
2:38:41movie releases and all. It's it's just
2:38:43it's the fun side of investing. Yeah,
2:38:47and
2:38:47>> it's part of the culture.
2:38:49>> Chris, thank you so much for coming on
2:38:50Dakota Genius.
2:38:51>> Well, thanks for having me. This this
2:38:53has been fun.
2:38:54>> The whole reason I started Dakota Genius
2:38:56was to learn from extraordinary people
2:38:58and give back by sharing these
2:38:59conversations with you. So, if you've
2:39:01got something from this, anything at
2:39:03all, please do me a favor, hit like,
2:39:05subscribe, and tell me in the comments
2:39:07what stuck with you. And most
2:39:09importantly, share this with someone who
2:39:11could benefit from it. Thank you so much
2:39:13for spending your time with me. I don't
2:39:14take it for granted.

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