7-26-2013 Coleen Rowley — Transcript
Full transcript
- 0:02[Music]
- 0:04do we have too much government we need
- 0:07to put uh people ahead of appropriate
- 0:09profits this system is so
- 0:12lopsided this threat is a real threat to
- 0:15democracy and I think that's really
- 0:16important that's something we haven't
- 0:17been doing in this country for a long
- 0:21time where do you start what do you do
- 0:24how do you do
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- 1:00Twin Cities
- 1:02[Music]
- 1:11[Applause]
- 1:13Community welcome we're back access to
- 1:16democracy is back and Colleen rowy is
- 1:19back who is a favorite and longtime
- 1:22guest now really you've been coming here
- 1:24for quite a few years uh Colleen Raleigh
- 1:27whose name is really a household work
- 1:31uh who probably was not known for her 24
- 1:34years in the FBI but certainly became
- 1:36known when she became times person Time
- 1:39magazine's person of the year in
- 1:422002 and is really highly sought after
- 1:46uh for speaking engagements a social
- 1:48activist a protector of civil rights and
- 1:51individual rights and welcome back thank
- 1:54you for having me it's always a pleasure
- 1:57now today's New York Times had a front
- 1:59page P article on the uh foreign
- 2:03intelligence surveillance court and it
- 2:06pointed out that 11 of the 12 judges
- 2:09have been appointed by Chief Justice
- 2:11Roberts that they are all Republicans
- 2:15all conservative
- 2:17Republicans uh six of them actually
- 2:19worked in other
- 2:21administrations uh is it any surprise
- 2:24that anything that put goes before them
- 2:28is okay that of thousands of
- 2:31applications for
- 2:33surveillance they're all getting okay I
- 2:35think four out of 4,000 or something
- 2:37like that would turn down right um of
- 2:40course that's been the constant
- 2:41criticism is that in secrecy and there's
- 2:44no ability to make an U for it's exp
- 2:47parte so no one is able to make the
- 2:49opposite argument that it's basically a
- 2:51rubber stamp um I will say before 9/11
- 2:55um there were problems with the wall the
- 2:58sharing of intelligence with criminal
- 3:00matters and that is actually the reason
- 3:02why the case here in Minnesota did not
- 3:04go forward there was a career risk
- 3:06aversion in the FBI of even taking a
- 3:09case to the to the fisa court um the the
- 3:13applications for uh court orders and and
- 3:16to Monitor and to search have at least
- 3:19doubled since 9911 and they quickly
- 3:21doubled so you you not only you have the
- 3:23rubber stamping was around 900 before
- 3:26911 per year and that went up uh to uh
- 3:29to 1,800 or so so it's a large number
- 3:33and that doesn't even tell you
- 3:34everything because one order can
- 3:36actually Encompass a lot of different
- 3:38locations and as you see with this court
- 3:40order and the fisa court for the massive
- 3:42telephone that's everyone's telephone
- 3:45toll data so it's not just one uh you
- 3:47know piece of information well we're all
- 3:49our all our Communications apparently
- 3:52are being spied upon
- 3:54now we have drones that are FL fly
- 3:58flying around
- 4:00I was going to say floating around but
- 4:02flying around uh we have cell phones
- 4:07that are monitoring where we go uh where
- 4:11is the Privacy GPS systems um well there
- 4:15you know privacy is what they say has to
- 4:18be sacrificed for security and that is
- 4:20kind of the myth or what what you want
- 4:22to call the propaganda I call it a
- 4:23utilitarian proposition that is being uh
- 4:26put to the people that if you want
- 4:28security you're going to have to go
- 4:29along with giving up privacy it's
- 4:32actually worse than that because you
- 4:33know we're all walking through those
- 4:35monitors into the airports you know or
- 4:37they photograph our body cavities and
- 4:40you can't give up more privacy than that
- 4:42it's worse than that for democracy
- 4:44though and the title of your show access
- 4:45to democracy is important because we
- 4:48have the the founding fathers who
- 4:49understood that the checks and balances
- 4:51between the courts and the legislative
- 4:53and the executive power and then the
- 4:55fourth estate the freedom of press which
- 4:57is embodied in the First Amendment we
- 4:59are now looking and it's it's right on
- 5:01the line of of of of U losing the First
- 5:05Amendment and that would be freedom of
- 5:07the press how are we going to learn
- 5:09about these things the fourth the Fourth
- 5:12Amendment as well that's right searches
- 5:14and seizures and Fifth Amendment due
- 5:16process but the I'm I'm focused right
- 5:18now on the First Amendment because
- 5:20that's where you see the whistleblowers
- 5:21with Edward Snowden who are telling you
- 5:23know finally telling what's going on and
- 5:26then the administration overreacting and
- 5:30um and using these Draconian
- 5:33prosecutions under the Espionage Act as
- 5:36a AER and a better of the enemy and then
- 5:39applying that to journalists starting to
- 5:40apply that even to journalists there's a
- 5:42New York Times journalist who is being
- 5:44threatened right now with jail for not
- 5:47disclosing a source now one of the
- 5:50things that's always been sacran in this
- 5:53democracy is that the Press uh the
- 5:56freedom of the press really so much
- 5:58depends on it
- 6:00a journalist should not be expected to
- 6:02disclose a source well the court just
- 6:05held that there's no reporters privilege
- 6:08and that um that reporter is a Pulitzer
- 6:11prizewinning reporter um you know you
- 6:14can there's not that many good reporters
- 6:16right now actually a lot of them have
- 6:18either done the easy thing or become
- 6:20intimidated but the handful that are
- 6:22left uh people like Jane mayor that
- 6:24outed the black sits and the torture
- 6:26Dana priest at the Washington Post James
- 6:28R right at New York Times I mean they
- 6:31are the ones actually that this
- 6:33surveillance you know we we are we are
- 6:36just common citizens and so basically
- 6:38our info is just going into the storage
- 6:41of those massive computer systems the
- 6:43interesting individuals are the
- 6:46reporters because that is what the
- 6:48administration sees as the danger of
- 6:50getting out these so-called Secrets
- 6:53there's there's one thing I just got to
- 6:55jump in right here it's the opposite
- 6:57people believe that the secrecy is
- 6:59protecting them if you go back to before
- 7:01911 and you actually look at the um the
- 7:04inquiries one of the my memo led to a An
- 7:07Inspector General inquiry but there's
- 7:09the 911 Commission there's the we
- 7:11talking about the memo that you wrote to
- 7:13the FBI which was ignored which might
- 7:17have had an effect on 9/11 well my memo
- 7:20actually when it came to light wasn't
- 7:22ignored it led to this uh uh Inspector
- 7:25General investigation that went on for
- 7:27two years it came to light after right
- 7:29your superiors ignored it in the FBI
- 7:32well the superiors ignored the request
- 7:34for the fisa court of the agents before
- 7:36911 and there was a
- 7:39compartmentalization uh there was
- 7:40extreme secrecy uh this is exactly the
- 7:43opposite of what we're being told we're
- 7:45being told secrecy protects us what if
- 7:47the American public had known that
- 7:49Ashcraft in arguing with the head of the
- 7:52FBI in July of 2001 had said I don't
- 7:56want to ever hear about terrorism um
- 7:58that's actually the 9/11 commission you
- 8:01know these are the types of secrets that
- 8:03this secrecy is protecting and then you
- 8:05find out that uh memos were not even
- 8:07read in the FBI that that were said
- 8:10Osama Bin Laden heavily entwined with
- 8:12the Chan terrorists uh they're going to
- 8:14attack that went to our FBI director
- 8:17Louis free and eight of his assistants
- 8:19they claimed they never read the memo so
- 8:22this flood of of intelligence and some
- 8:24of these pieces of intelligence were
- 8:26very important um that came in before
- 8:29911 can you imagine what it is now when
- 8:32they have started the massive top secret
- 8:34America and then it's all covered with
- 8:36secrecy don't we have almost a half a
- 8:38million people who are in
- 8:42surveillance uh who have top secret
- 8:45clearance uh do we need a half a million
- 8:49people uh spying on us in effect it it
- 8:52it it's a little higher than half a
- 8:54million The Washington Post in 2010
- 8:57counted nearly a million the last last
- 8:59figure I've heard of people with just
- 9:01clearances which could be top secret or
- 9:03something less 4 and A5 million you're
- 9:06talking 1,200 public agencies you know
- 9:09there's the top 16 CIA NSA FBI but
- 9:12there's also 1,200 more public ones some
- 9:15of them are small then there's 1,00
- 9:18private contractors and that really
- 9:20scares me more than anything because who
- 9:23are these people who are these
- 9:24contractors how are they vetted how do
- 9:26we know uh really uh what their
- 9:30backgrounds are they're not we're
- 9:32relying on what the contractor says and
- 9:36that's a very dangerous Prof and then it
- 9:39goes back to Eisenhower's warning about
- 9:40the military-industrial complex there's
- 9:42a whole new national security
- 9:44surveillance complex and they the those
- 9:471900 are in it for the money uh they're
- 9:49in it to make profits and of course this
- 9:51higher technology with drone
- 9:53surveillance and and the computer
- 9:55storage and and all this Digital
- 9:57Collection GPS tracking
- 10:00uh so the the common citizen right now
- 10:03is not doing well um the courts are not
- 10:06allowing the ACU lawsuits to even be
- 10:09heard they're they're dismissing the
- 10:11lawsuits based on technical reasons like
- 10:13lack of standing or uh State Secrets
- 10:17privilege there's a couple of things but
- 10:18they're not even hearing them on the
- 10:19merits right now so this this is really
- 10:22um a telling uh sign that our our checks
- 10:26and balances are out of out way out of
- 10:29wh
- 10:30really threatens the very foundations of
- 10:32our democracy now we had eight years of
- 10:35George W bush uh I was not disappointed
- 10:39in George W bush because I expected
- 10:41nothing good to come from that
- 10:44Administration uh and it didn't uh I I
- 10:48expected him to go to the right I
- 10:50expected him to trample uh civil
- 10:53liberties uh but we have moved now to
- 10:57Obama and I am terribly
- 10:59disappointed in the fact that Obama
- 11:02seems to have
- 11:04perpetuated uh what Bush did uh he put
- 11:08Eric Holder in charge of the justice
- 11:10department who I I think if not a
- 11:13complete failure certainly is close to
- 11:16it he hasn't prosecuted who should be
- 11:19prosecuted uh he finally did something
- 11:22today uh at somebody's urging about the
- 11:25state of Texas and voting rights but
- 11:27that's another thing that's being taken
- 11:29away from the people and the justice
- 11:32department pretty much has sat on its
- 11:33hands also well Obama had a a carryover
- 11:37from the Bush Administration he used
- 11:39John Brennan who was the one of the main
- 11:42figures involved with the black sites
- 11:44and the kidnappings and the CIA
- 11:45Renditions and then John Brennan became
- 11:48the Drone assassination are under Obama
- 11:51Obama did a real good job as in in his
- 11:54campaign of speaking truth to power he
- 11:57claimed he wanted to protect
- 11:58whistleblowers
- 11:59he uh you know he voted actually against
- 12:02I'm trying to think he had some key
- 12:03votes uh he did vote for the for the
- 12:05nsa's monitoring I know he finally
- 12:08capitulated on this but he did vote
- 12:09against a couple of um of key moments
- 12:12where he when he was still a senator
- 12:14okay he gets into power and I think it's
- 12:16just the switcheroo he's become a
- 12:18corporatist right and and it's a vested
- 12:21interest because the all of the money
- 12:23and the power is on this side and I
- 12:24think that any I think our next
- 12:26president I don't care what party will
- 12:28probably be worse
- 12:29because until we can fix the uh problems
- 12:32underlying problems in the in this
- 12:34Corruption of the military industrial
- 12:36national security surveillance uh we
- 12:39have some hope right now there was a
- 12:41vote uh two days ago and it was only 12
- 12:44votes shy of at least fixing part of
- 12:47that NSA which shows you that when
- 12:49there's a the media you know put the
- 12:51story out and the people read the story
- 12:53at least there was some impetus for a
- 12:55while but the media has been so weak I
- 12:57mean you talked about three
- 12:59investigative journalists to get good
- 13:03investigative journalists today we we
- 13:06certainly can't rely on the big sources
- 13:10the networks forget about it uh most of
- 13:12the newspapers forget about it uh we're
- 13:16certainly not going to go to Fox for
- 13:17investigative journalism or MSNBC
- 13:21although they do have a couple of people
- 13:23there with courage and backbone but
- 13:26still uh it's magazines and it's small
- 13:29vehicles that seem to be doing the the
- 13:32grunt work that's enabling us to find
- 13:35some of these things out and at danger
- 13:38to themselves also yeah that's correct
- 13:40and you know again it's the sponsorship
- 13:43uh of the news and I'm I'm sure that's a
- 13:45big factor I think there is hope though
- 13:48that maybe with this last uh threat for
- 13:50instance of ryzen that maybe for
- 13:52instance the New York Times understands
- 13:54now what is on the line This is actually
- 13:57now freedom of the press that is on the
- 13:58line
- 13:59and at that point you know they they
- 14:01might become stronger and finally see
- 14:03that this is something that they have to
- 14:05encourage the writers will do it if
- 14:07their bosses will let them and will
- 14:09encourage them so it kind of goes all
- 14:11the way to the top and uh you know we
- 14:13have to hope we can get a press back um
- 14:16that there there's alternative press and
- 14:17you know whatever and you have to read
- 14:19unbelievable amount in order to finally
- 14:22kind of put it all together to really
- 14:24understand as a critical thinker what's
- 14:25going on yeah you can't pick up the
- 14:27newspaper uh I remember when I was a kid
- 14:32we had about in New York we had about 10
- 14:35daily papers we're down to what
- 14:38two uh three the post which is not
- 14:42certainly a vehicle for journalism The
- 14:44Daily News same thing and the New York
- 14:47Times you have to go elsewhere and the
- 14:50times uh which had backbone certainly
- 14:55has seen readership falling and that
- 14:57affects the bottom line and and then the
- 14:59pressure gets put on y yeah now you had
- 15:02a an article in the New York Times just
- 15:06a few days ago questions for the New FBI
- 15:10director right uh in his nomination
- 15:13hearings and you had 10 points that you
- 15:16wanted him toh be asked by Congress and
- 15:19we'll see if anybody has the courage to
- 15:20ask them but well they they had a 2 and
- 15:23a half hour hearing and uh there were a
- 15:26lot there were quite a few that asked
- 15:27the questions about his authorization of
- 15:29water boarding and they forced James
- 15:31Comey who will probably be they haven't
- 15:34had the full vote yet but he's been
- 15:35voted out of committee um he uh had to
- 15:39admit unlike Muki that water boarding is
- 15:41torture then Senator Franken went even a
- 15:44step further I think Senator Franken
- 15:46actually did one of the better jobs of
- 15:48questioning and he went a step further
- 15:49and read the whole gory gruesome
- 15:52description of sleep deprivation uh
- 15:54people think Oh missing a couple hours
- 15:56of sleep no it's being shed Shackled to
- 15:59the floor your arms Shackled to the
- 16:01ceiling you get this much room small
- 16:03amount of room you have to wear a diaper
- 16:06and it's for up to 180 hours 7 and a
- 16:09half days and when he read that he
- 16:12turned to Comey and he says isn't that
- 16:14torture and he forced uh Comey then to
- 16:16admit also that sleep deprivation is
- 16:18torture so while he admitted those
- 16:21things he could not really explain why
- 16:24he had signed off on them and he had
- 16:26signed off on these harsh so-called
- 16:29enhanced interrogation tactics in 2005
- 16:32right before he left he had also signed
- 16:35off on the the warrantless
- 16:36monitoring that's ones that really
- 16:39concerned me also and he had actually
- 16:41signed off on um what's the other one
- 16:43there was a third one that he signed off
- 16:45on use of drones uh no that was just
- 16:48starting I mean I'm sure he went along
- 16:50with it too but the the warrantless
- 16:53monitoring people had a misunderstanding
- 16:56because they knew the story of him in
- 16:58the uh hospital room with ashof very
- 17:01sick and Bush sending his men there to
- 17:04get ashc that was his moment of Glory
- 17:07well they know the media played it up
- 17:09they made it very dramatic as if he had
- 17:11stood up to Bush well there there was a
- 17:13lot more to that story the very next
- 17:16morning after the hospital room scene
- 17:18Bush called him in Comey and there's a
- 17:20private conversation that he refuses to
- 17:22talk about uh Bush also called in Robert
- 17:25Mueller on they he talked to them
- 17:27separately and somehow that warrantless
- 17:30monitoring continued bush first of all
- 17:32continued it without ashcraft's uh
- 17:35signature and it's my kind of you know
- 17:38read reading between the lines and
- 17:40deducing that what they were really
- 17:42arguing about at the time was the
- 17:44rationale for the monitoring Bush uh
- 17:47under John Yu had him compartmentalized
- 17:50and he had this idea of expanded
- 17:52inherent executive power well John Yu
- 17:55was the fellow who authorized just about
- 17:57anything in terms of torture
- 17:59right he was working with I think
- 18:01Genie's uh Addington they were working
- 18:03together with people in the
- 18:04administration and was very tightly held
- 18:07there were times when even for instance
- 18:08the NSA legal council was not privy to
- 18:11what John Yu was writing uh so this was
- 18:14you talk about secrecy this wasn't
- 18:16secrecy from the citizens it was even
- 18:18secrecy inside of the office of legal
- 18:20councel well we have so many different
- 18:23aspects or departments or areas of
- 18:26government that one does not necess
- 18:28neily know what the other is doing well
- 18:31this was deliberately this was not an
- 18:34accident um you know when the nsa's
- 18:36monitoring Authority is expanded
- 18:38overnight as it was after 911 and the
- 18:41Ansa legal council has not even cut into
- 18:43it that was deliberate and that was
- 18:45because they were doing these things
- 18:47under these novel theories of inherent
- 18:50executive power what happened is uh this
- 18:53Goldsmith came in in 2003 or four and he
- 18:57started to look then at some of those
- 18:59prior theories one was the torture memo
- 19:01that John Yu had written but then also
- 19:03the NSA and then he started to question
- 19:06and what they did though is I think they
- 19:08switched the legal Theory to now uh
- 19:11being justified by the authorization to
- 19:13use military force how does somebody
- 19:16become a member of the
- 19:19NSA well probably recruit them now I
- 19:23mean they recruit FBI agents they
- 19:25recruit CIA agents but I've never read
- 19:28any anything about the recruitment of
- 19:30NSA well I know one most secretive
- 19:32agency uh Keith Alexander who is the
- 19:34current head of uh the NSA and he's also
- 19:37a fourstar general he's also the Cyber
- 19:39War Commander he's actually been to
- 19:42hackers conferences and he wore blue
- 19:44jeans and he was one of the Keynotes for
- 19:46one of these hacker things and he's
- 19:49actually going there to recruit people
- 19:51to join because they need people with
- 19:53computer skills and so where you going
- 19:55to get computer skills thank you Edward
- 19:57Snowden well Edward Snowden wasn't he
- 19:59actually joined out of the military you
- 20:01know so they they FBI CIA they get
- 20:05people I think from all different walks
- 20:06of of life and they need different
- 20:09skills the NSA needs math they have a
- 20:12certain skill set they need mathematics
- 20:14and they need computer high-tech uh
- 20:16engineering type Josh I hope you're
- 20:17listening in the uh in the control
- 20:22room Josh is a computer whiz oh the the
- 20:26CIA for instance have two types of of
- 20:28people they're recruiting they recruit
- 20:30very smart Professor types for their
- 20:32intelligence analysts and then they
- 20:34recruit for their operatives the more
- 20:37Reckless uh you know uh you know what
- 20:39you think of a James Bond types you know
- 20:42the the the Daredevil types and then we
- 20:45have people who are recruited for their
- 20:47intelligence who get pushed too far as
- 20:49you were and who have to come out and
- 20:53then get skewered by the administration
- 20:56by the people that you worked for for
- 20:57doing what the conscience should tell
- 21:00you to do in the first place you know I
- 21:03think I had a unique career because when
- 21:04I joined it was just two years after the
- 21:07fisa law had gone into effect and I
- 21:09actually had some retired a retiring
- 21:12agents they had gone through the coel
- 21:14pro under Hoover and in fact one guy had
- 21:16his supervisor had been indicted or had
- 21:18gotten into trouble with all of the
- 21:20black bag jobs and the the monitoring of
- 21:24Martin Luther King and they went after
- 21:26black panthers even feminists well that
- 21:28a lot of them went along with it of
- 21:30course because they were you know
- 21:31collecting salaries and it was easy work
- 21:33but I got warned actually when I first
- 21:35joined the FBI that this was Dumb and
- 21:37never to go do that again then I taught
- 21:40constitutional law in the FBI for 13
- 21:42years if you knew how I focused and it
- 21:46wasn't just me there were 56 offices and
- 21:48we were all doing this focusing on the
- 21:50technicalities of the Miranda Rights
- 21:53okay now we're talking not even having
- 21:54due process you don't even get your day
- 21:56in court you don't even get charg
- 21:59uh I just remember the third thing with
- 22:01Comey indefinite detention he was the
- 22:04spokesperson for the Padilla case an
- 22:06American citizen held three over three
- 22:09years in a brri without even being
- 22:12charged no no defense without counil
- 22:15exactly without contact with family
- 22:17right Franken uh again Senator Franken
- 22:20hammered him on that and he did a really
- 22:21good job and and he still defends this
- 22:24he says this is necessary Al Franken has
- 22:27really become one of the the strongest
- 22:29voices in the Senate uh there aren't too
- 22:32many you know uh would that we still had
- 22:38uh some people who have been in the past
- 22:42who were not afraid to speak up but
- 22:45Franken Bernie Sanders is another one
- 22:48but there aren't too
- 22:50many no and when it push comes to shove
- 22:53on these votes you know it's just kind
- 22:54of I mean that on the ndaa there were 14
- 22:57it Frank was one of the 14 but in the
- 23:00final analysis they all voted to let it
- 23:02happen so and they need to keep pushing
- 23:05right now there's a moment because of
- 23:06the the public has learned that you know
- 23:09we're supposed to be the enemy we're
- 23:10considered the potential enemy this
- 23:12we're you're spying on us American
- 23:14citizens you're saying you can put us
- 23:16into indefinite detention uh the lawsuit
- 23:18that was just dismissed was one uh
- 23:20challenging indefinite Detention of
- 23:22Americans the filibuster that Rand Paul
- 23:25had was on drone bombing of American
- 23:27citizens well even Rand Paul can do
- 23:30something right once in a while but when
- 23:32when we realize it's us and not just
- 23:34some enemy and a far away country I
- 23:37think that there is a chance now for
- 23:38these things to finally be rectified and
- 23:40changed do we have the right to order a
- 23:43drone kill on an American citizen I mean
- 23:46we did that on an alleged quote unquote
- 23:49terrorist and he probably was a
- 23:51terrorist but we also took out his
- 23:5316-year-old son uh Collateral Damage I
- 23:57mean it just frightens me as to how far
- 24:01we can go and get away with this I've
- 24:04read the white paper several times and
- 24:06in fact in John Brennan's confirmation
- 24:08it's on the record uh we submitted I
- 24:11don't know 50 60 questions for John
- 24:13Brennan based on the Drone assassination
- 24:16policy in that white paper it does not
- 24:18hold water I mean I have talked to some
- 24:20law professors now unfortunately some
- 24:22law professors are going along with it
- 24:25but you know you cannot without due
- 24:27process well see also Barack Obama who
- 24:29was a constitutional law professor and
- 24:32the the idea that the world is a battle
- 24:34place you don't have to declare war on a
- 24:37given country or say that that country
- 24:39is a you know a nation state that you're
- 24:41at war with you say that the whole world
- 24:43is a battlefield and that we're just
- 24:45picking people off all over I mean that
- 24:47theory is incredible it's it's out of
- 24:50Science Fiction but that is what they is
- 24:52in the white people it's out of Science
- 24:53Fiction but you know if you see a drone
- 24:55overhead you wonder if it's for you
- 24:57that's right the imminent threat
- 24:59imminent has been re uh defined uh to
- 25:02mean that is if that if you think that
- 25:04will eventually happen there's no human
- 25:07ability to predict what is what is a
- 25:10threat I mean if it if somebody's
- 25:11shooting at you yes you know they're a
- 25:13threat but to say that uh this person
- 25:15sleeping in bed right now next week is
- 25:18going to be a threat to me so I get to
- 25:20kill him now that's incredible and it's
- 25:23Minority Report that's what it is uh
- 25:25really the movie is then personified in
- 25:28life and it's pretty scary there there's
- 25:31another thing I've written about with
- 25:32respect to the um the uh course the New
- 25:36York Times one was about James comey's
- 25:38confirmation and the CNN I wrote about
- 25:40CNN massive spying on Americans is
- 25:43outrageous right that's on that's
- 25:45another recent one that you and and then
- 25:47the the third one I wrote about over two
- 25:49years ago when it was first announced
- 25:51was The Insider threat program so the
- 25:54very first I mean this was after
- 25:56Wikileaks in Bradley Manning OMB put out
- 25:59guidance that inside the government you
- 26:01were to be spying on your co-workers and
- 26:04and try to tell who would be the
- 26:06disgruntled employee who could become a
- 26:08leaker and there's now a formal program
- 26:11set up there are uh every every agency
- 26:14has a kind of an internal affairs called
- 26:16The Insider threat program what does
- 26:18this remind you of by the way does this
- 26:20remind you 1984 big brother and and and
- 26:23what we used to hear about the Soviet
- 26:25Union and the block and the stazzy
- 26:27there's no way if you think about it the
- 26:30people who are submitting suggestions
- 26:32for improvement I actually submitted
- 26:33suggestions from time to time we had
- 26:35something called the suggestion program
- 26:37well they're going to be targeted now is
- 26:39if they are the disgruntled employees uh
- 26:41that will become a a leaker or a tra
- 26:44people will be afraid to make
- 26:45suggestions to improve systems right
- 26:48that will help make us a better country
- 26:51and and when when we had true spies in
- 26:53the 80s we had I mean for one uh Robert
- 26:56Hansen in the FBI he went like 20 years
- 26:58spying and he was actually giving up
- 27:01double agents that were getting murdered
- 27:03they knew there was an FBI spy they they
- 27:06uh targeted lots of other people except
- 27:08for Robert Hansen in fact Robert Hansen
- 27:11was put in charge of the task force to
- 27:15look for the spy in the FBI and he was
- 27:17the spy and he was and then we have the
- 27:19other side of the coin uh with Cheney
- 27:23who really I believe was the brain
- 27:25behind the bush Administration taking
- 27:28a legitimate spy somebody who had done a
- 27:32lot of things Valerie PL to help this
- 27:35country to bring this country back to
- 27:37where it was and he outs her so that it
- 27:40ends her career now I know that Cheney
- 27:43was not prosecuted for it but uh and
- 27:45scooter liby got I'm going to be
- 27:47prosecuted by the control room because
- 27:49we we already ran through a half an hour
- 27:52uh so fast and we have so much more to
- 27:54talk about well we need citizens to get
- 27:57talking about these things get right
- 27:59letter writing uh write op ads and and
- 28:02educate your fellow citizens Colleen
- 28:05rally always a pleasure to sit and chat
- 28:09with you and we we we have to do it more
- 28:12often than once a year uh which is about
- 28:14what we have been doing but we have to
- 28:17and well let's hope the next time we get
- 28:18together we can talk about good news you
- 28:21you are access to democracy thank you
- 28:23thank you
- 28:24[Music]
- 28:28a
- 28:30[Music]
- 28:35[Music]
- 28:48[Applause]
- 28:49[Music]
- 29:22w
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