69. The Marty Tankleff Case with Emma and Jill — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00[Music]
2. 0:10[Music]
3. 0:16[Music]
4. 0:36welcome to this jeremy bamba and white
5. 0:38house farm podcast i'm delighted to be
6. 0:40joined today by jill mccarley supporter
7. 0:43of jeremy bamba
8. 0:45jill is here today to talk about an
9. 0:47american case in the name of martin
10. 0:50pancliffe now my understanding is martin
11. 0:53was convicted of killing his adoptive
12. 0:56parents
13. 0:58seymour and arlene tancliffe
14. 1:00in june 1990 he was sentenced to two
15. 1:04consecutive terms of 25 years to life in
16. 1:07prison
17. 1:08and he spent 17 long years incarcerated
18. 1:13before he was finally
19. 1:15exonerated and released from prison
20. 1:18jill can you just give us a bit of
21. 1:19background about this particular crime
22. 1:22and
23. 1:22why marty was ultimately
24. 1:24arrested charged and
25. 1:27convicted of the murder of his parents
26. 1:30yes of course um on the morning of
27. 1:33september 7th 1988
28. 1:36marty gotta went downstairs and found
29. 1:38his father
30. 1:40with horrific stab wounds he at this
31. 1:43point was unconscious but still alive
32. 1:46marty at that point around 9-1-1
33. 1:50he's called to 911's suspicions
34. 1:52immediately and when police arrived on
35. 1:55scene
36. 1:56they immediately
37. 1:57suspected marty
38. 1:59because he hadn't gone looking for his
39. 2:01mother
40. 2:02because he was trying to keep his father
41. 2:05alive so he you know assumed as he was
42. 2:08calling his mother his mother wasn't
43. 2:10responding that she was dead um the
44. 2:13police on the scene very much walked in
45. 2:16saw a young man
46. 2:18instant
47. 2:19young brat basically millions of dollars
48. 2:22he's killed his parents
49. 2:24to get the inheritance
50. 2:26so they they suspected him immediately
51. 2:28then oh yeah yeah straight away despite
52. 2:31marty at the scene
53. 2:33telling them of a much more viable and
54. 2:37obvious suspect
55. 2:38who was the business partner who owed
56. 2:42the parents he had a bagel shop with the
57. 2:44father
58. 2:45he owed him half a million dollars which
59. 2:48was payable by noon that day
60. 2:52the father
61. 2:53and the mother had entertained this
62. 2:57gentleman the night before he was the
63. 2:59last person to see them alive he had
64. 3:03also made violent threats against them
65. 3:06previously with regard to this amount of
66. 3:10money the bagel shop was failing
67. 3:13um
68. 3:14and basically marty's father was a very
69. 3:16good businessman
70. 3:18and
71. 3:19he was the first person
72. 3:21that should have been suspected and he
73. 3:23was never ever
74. 3:25looked at as a suspect they zoned in on
75. 3:27marty
76. 3:28didn't look anywhere else
77. 3:30right okay so then marty's taken into
78. 3:33custody what what happens then
79. 3:37um he is kept and interrogated
80. 3:41quite aggressively for 16 hours bearing
81. 3:45in mind this is a 17 year old man
82. 3:47well child who
83. 3:50just found his parents
84. 3:52mother brutally murdered father
85. 3:55almost dead
86. 3:57um they questioned him 16 hours without
87. 3:59any legal representation he had no
88. 4:02breaks they gave him no food they gave
89. 4:05him nothing to drink
90. 4:07and
91. 4:08he denied united united all he kept
92. 4:10saying it's you need to go and speak to
93. 4:13the business partner you know this is a
94. 4:15if you watch the interrogation it's
95. 4:17incredibly
96. 4:19in it's just
97. 4:21coercive beyond belief you know they're
98. 4:23abusive
99. 4:25they're just i mean
100. 4:27they were actually under investigation
101. 4:29at the time
102. 4:30for corruption
103. 4:32right
104. 4:34with regard to coercive
105. 4:36um
106. 4:38confessions at that point
107. 4:40so
108. 4:41didn't they didn't they didn't they lie
109. 4:43to him or something about his father
110. 4:45yes
111. 4:46they weren't getting anywhere um like
112. 4:48say 16 hours of questioning marty didn't
113. 4:51falter
114. 4:53they decided police can like they came
115. 4:56in and faked a phone call
116. 4:59that apparently had come from the
117. 5:00hospital
118. 5:01to say at this point his father was
119. 5:03still unconscious he never regained
120. 5:05consciousness before he died they told
121. 5:08marty that his father had regained
122. 5:10consciousness
123. 5:12and told them
124. 5:13marty did it my son did this
125. 5:17wow
126. 5:18and yeah at that point
127. 5:20marty is like
128. 5:22my dad said that my dad's alive straight
129. 5:25away and
130. 5:26he couldn't believe it and his instant
131. 5:28reaction is i must have blacked out i
132. 5:30don't remember i don't remember i must
133. 5:32have blacked out
134. 5:34but if that's what my dad is saying it
135. 5:37must be true and then he starts like do
136. 5:40you think there's something wrong with
137. 5:41me and
138. 5:43absolutely
139. 5:44horrendous
140. 5:46you know but they could lie
141. 5:48like that and that that that the
142. 5:50confession basically that is marty's
143. 5:52confession
144. 5:53okay
145. 5:54in terms of evidence against marty um i
146. 5:58mean obviously he's going to have been
147. 6:00covered in his father's blood he was
148. 6:02trying to save his father's life at the
149. 6:04time so that's to be expected was there
150. 6:06any other forensic evidence that the
151. 6:09linked marty to the crime
152. 6:11nothing
153. 6:13nothing and as a note as well
154. 6:16he had no of his none of his mother's
155. 6:18blood on him oh right okay
156. 6:21yeah
157. 6:22none of his mother's blood on him only
158. 6:24his father's
159. 6:25which obviously
160. 6:27was because he was trying to save his
161. 6:29father's life there was blood stain or a
162. 6:32blood drop found which was not marty's
163. 6:36which oh that's interesting
164. 6:38um
165. 6:40so there was obviously somebody else
166. 6:42there but that again was ignored
167. 6:46because it didn't fit the police
168. 6:47hypothesis of what they thought was
169. 6:49going to happen
170. 6:50so what about the murder weapon
171. 6:52what was that and was it left at the
172. 6:54scene or was it taken away by the
173. 6:56murderer
174. 6:58there were two murder weapons one of
175. 7:00which was believed to be either a heavy
176. 7:03pipe
177. 7:04or possibly a dumbbell
178. 7:06and there was also a bloody print on the
179. 7:10sheet next to marty's mum which was the
180. 7:13imprint of a knife
181. 7:15which was not consistent with any knives
182. 7:18found in the town cliff home so somebody
183. 7:21took those weapons away with them
184. 7:24which again does not point to marty
185. 7:28so
186. 7:29they had it all
187. 7:30they were never found
188. 7:32no they've never been found
189. 7:34okay
190. 7:35what was the story from that what was
191. 7:36the story from the police then or why
192. 7:38you know other than he was he was in the
193. 7:41house that's kind of all they had what
194. 7:43what was their theory what were they
195. 7:45saying well we it was marty because
196. 7:49so the only motive that they came up
197. 7:51with
198. 7:53and they used this at trial was that
199. 7:55marty was about to start college and
200. 7:58he'd asked for
201. 8:00a new car
202. 8:01and his parents bought him a second-hand
203. 8:04car
204. 8:05and that apparently was motivator
205. 8:08for a previously loving boy who's never
206. 8:12shown any kind of
207. 8:14violent behavior or anger
208. 8:16that was enough to have caused him to
209. 8:19stab both his parents to death the fact
210. 8:21they bought him a second-hand car
211. 8:24and that that was all the police could
212. 8:26could come up with
213. 8:28what about the family or was he an only
214. 8:29child was there anybody else involved
215. 8:32no marty um had a half sister who was
216. 8:36also adopted
217. 8:38um
218. 8:39initially she was very very supportive
219. 8:42of marty
220. 8:44very open did quite a lot of tv
221. 8:46interviews magazine paper interviews
222. 8:49spoke out marty loved his parents he
223. 8:52wouldn't have done this and she i think
224. 8:54went along with the business partner
225. 8:57um fact
226. 8:59until the will was read
227. 9:02oh this sounds familiar yeah this
228. 9:05definitely sounds familiar
229. 9:07she found out not only would she not
230. 9:09inherit her
231. 9:11of her parents estate
232. 9:13if marty was to inherit as well
233. 9:16but
234. 9:17you know and then she's like oh but if
235. 9:19martin's convicted
236. 9:21i'm going to inherit everything
237. 9:23so she instantly as soon as the world
238. 9:25was read turned together smarty spoke to
239. 9:28help oh marty definitely did it no
240. 9:30absolutely marty hated his parents and
241. 9:33completely did a 180 on everything she'd
242. 9:36been saying quite publicly
243. 9:39previously yeah
244. 9:41yeah so the yeah money again
245. 9:44they say money is the root of all evil
246. 9:46don't they and um proven time and time
247. 9:49again that it absolutely
248. 9:52absolutely is
249. 9:53oh yeah absolutely
250. 9:55you know and it was a big it was a big
251. 9:57estate as well we're talking
252. 9:59multi-millions
253. 10:01yeah
254. 10:02like you know it was a big chunk of
255. 10:03change but that she was going to inherit
256. 10:06but
257. 10:07that money now um
258. 10:10has all gone apparently so her
259. 10:13ex-husband
260. 10:15i wouldn't say that i don't know there's
261. 10:17organs actually but
262. 10:20he kind of
263. 10:21did little business ventures here and
264. 10:23there and
265. 10:24it's all gone also sounds
266. 10:27quite familiar
267. 10:28yeah
268. 10:30the inheritance so
269. 10:33okay
270. 10:35so you mentioned at the beginning that
271. 10:37there was another suspect
272. 10:39the business partner who was there the
273. 10:42evening
274. 10:43before with the with the tan clefs and
275. 10:45that he owed
276. 10:47500 000
277. 10:49so what what of him what happened with
278. 10:51what happened with him
279. 10:52well this is interesting um
280. 10:55before news of the murders
281. 10:58was out in the media bear in mind this
282. 11:00is 1988 so there is a
283. 11:0224-hour news coverage where is now so
284. 11:05you had
285. 11:06quite a few hours he basically
286. 11:10put on a disguise which was laughable he
287. 11:12dyed his hair and put on a fake beard
288. 11:15and mustache faked his own death
289. 11:19breaks his own death
290. 11:20fake his own death yep
291. 11:22how did he do that
292. 11:24well i mean there was a note found in a
293. 11:26hotel room that you know that he was
294. 11:29going to
295. 11:30kill himself because of the murders
296. 11:33basically it was awful
297. 11:35he
298. 11:36said then done this
299. 11:38laughable disguise
300. 11:41um
301. 11:41and fled to california with a bank id
302. 11:45and quite a lot of cash on him
303. 11:48um
304. 11:49when they
305. 11:50tracked him to a hotel room he obviously
306. 11:54again threatened to commit suicide
307. 11:57uh yet he was never
308. 11:59ever
309. 12:00questioned as a suspect
310. 12:02only as a witness
311. 12:04ow
312. 12:07to this day
313. 12:09he's not
314. 12:10being questioned as a suspect
315. 12:12so yeah why do you think that is
316. 12:16friends in high places i'd say he was
317. 12:19um
318. 12:20quite chummy
319. 12:21with the sheriff of that county and you
320. 12:25know good friends with certain police
321. 12:27officers i don't know if there's sort of
322. 12:29any kind of
323. 12:31secret orders or anything like that
324. 12:33involved but he was quite a high-profile
325. 12:37business man he ran a baby
326. 12:40actually known as the bagel king
327. 12:42um because all the cops went and let
328. 12:45bagels there and he was good friends
329. 12:48with them all so
330. 12:50okay yeah
331. 12:53something else sounds very familiar
332. 12:54about that doesn't it yeah yeah
333. 12:58parallels
334. 13:00and he's never
335. 13:02ever been questioned as a suspect you
336. 13:04say
337. 13:05no never other than
338. 13:07in court at marty's murder trial
339. 13:11marty's lawyer
340. 13:13started
341. 13:14putting it to him
342. 13:16that you know he killed the tank left
343. 13:19and i've never seen anything quite like
344. 13:21it this is a fully grown man
345. 13:23who did a horrendous fake crying
346. 13:27and almost had a little temper tantrum
347. 13:29in the whitney spot and i am now on
348. 13:32trial here marge is on trial and refuse
349. 13:36to answer any more questions
350. 13:39and that's the only time he's ever had
351. 13:42any questions directed towards him as a
352. 13:45suspect
353. 13:46not by the police or the prosecution or
354. 13:50marty's defense in court
355. 13:53i mean it's it's a remarkable story
356. 13:55isn't it
357. 13:57you couldn't make it up because
358. 13:59it's you know but this is somebody's
359. 14:01life and i could say marty was a child
360. 14:04yeah what he was
361. 14:06so
362. 14:07marty's in prison now he's obviously
363. 14:10protesting his innocence his parents
364. 14:12have
365. 14:13obviously been tragically murdered his
366. 14:15sister's turned against him
367. 14:17where does he go from here who listens
368. 14:19to him who helps him
369. 14:21he was very lucky to have a brilliant
370. 14:24appellate lawyer who
371. 14:26got the innocence project involved
372. 14:29they became
373. 14:30active um
374. 14:32quite early on quite early on i mean i
375. 14:35think they were working the entire time
376. 14:37on his case from
377. 14:39the minute he was convicted in
378. 14:42the october
379. 14:43of uh 1990
380. 14:46all the way through really till 2008
381. 14:49um
382. 14:51they managed in 2003
383. 14:54to get an appeal
384. 14:56in
385. 14:57which had
386. 14:59new evidence from 20 witnesses that had
387. 15:02previously
388. 15:03not either been
389. 15:05questioned or
390. 15:07what they had said have not been
391. 15:10disclosed
392. 15:12but the main piece of evidence and it
393. 15:15took them
394. 15:16many many many attempts and many many
395. 15:19years to actually get courts to agree to
396. 15:22test the sample
397. 15:24was the blood spot that was found at the
398. 15:27crime scene right so this is the blood
399. 15:29spot that didn't match
400. 15:32marty or his either of his parents this
401. 15:35was an acting blood spot that that
402. 15:37nobody knew who's who's it was yeah at
403. 15:40the time obviously it was tested they
404. 15:43could only kind of do blood grouping it
405. 15:45didn't have
406. 15:46as advanced techniques as they did
407. 15:49um in the 2000s so they they petitioned
408. 15:53and they finally got quite detailed and
409. 15:56really advanced dna testing done which
410. 15:59proved 100
411. 16:01but it was not
412. 16:03from marty it wasn't from
413. 16:06anybody else that have been tested
414. 16:10um
415. 16:11apart from one person who
416. 16:14has repeatedly
417. 16:16ignored requests to give a blood sample
418. 16:20and
419. 16:21why would you refuse to give a blood
420. 16:23sample to rule yourself out
421. 16:25and i don't i don't i i don't think i'm
422. 16:28going to be surprised in who that is who
423. 16:30is the person that's refused to give a
424. 16:32blood sample
425. 16:33the business partner
426. 16:35business partner yeah
427. 16:37so he he doesn't just refuse
428. 16:41he ignores all requests and because he
429. 16:44has never been
430. 16:46questioned or considered as a suspect he
431. 16:49doesn't have to you know he they that
432. 16:52marty's team have been trying
433. 16:54to get a court order
434. 16:56to
435. 16:57you know get a warrant to get his um dna
436. 17:01they can't they they are repeatedly
437. 17:03refused
438. 17:04um so to this day the murders remain
439. 17:08unsolved
440. 17:09you know and why would you not
441. 17:11you know
442. 17:12all these years
443. 17:14he's this man has been a suspect
444. 17:17why don't you just give a sample if it's
445. 17:19not him
446. 17:20i agree
447. 17:21yeah what's the problem
448. 17:23i absolutely agree absolutely agree so
449. 17:26ultimately what exonerated marty was the
450. 17:29fact that the blood that was found
451. 17:31didn't match pretty much yeah and the
452. 17:34position of the blood
453. 17:36could not have been left by anybody
454. 17:38other
455. 17:39than the person
456. 17:41who used the murder weapon so really
457. 17:44okay yeah where it was i don't think
458. 17:47they've disclosed where it was somewhere
459. 17:51on
460. 17:52either his father's body
461. 17:55or around his father's body
462. 17:58but it so whoever did it obviously cut
463. 18:00themselves as well
464. 18:02yeah well yeah i mean such a such a
465. 18:05brutal attack like that that's that's
466. 18:07unsurprising isn't it so
467. 18:09and marty had no no wings uh like you
468. 18:12know jeremy had
469. 18:14never
470. 18:15visible
471. 18:16marty had learned but there was a cut
472. 18:18and they knew that at the time
473. 18:21but
474. 18:22even though because they did like blood
475. 18:24matching
476. 18:25but obviously back then you only got
477. 18:27typing you couldn't get a full
478. 18:29really good dna profile but you know
479. 18:32until this person of interest
480. 18:35agrees
481. 18:37to give a sample i mean marty's still
482. 18:40not probably not going to agree is he
483. 18:42unless he's right well unless unless
484. 18:45he's ordered too
485. 18:47but this day they've been fighting you
486. 18:49know marty's still fighting to solve his
487. 18:52parents murder
488. 18:54yeah yeah
489. 18:57to be held responsible and
490. 19:00you know he's been fighting
491. 19:02for decades to get this guy to give a
492. 19:05sample
493. 19:06and he just doesn't respond i mean he's
494. 19:09still alive you know this guy is still
495. 19:11out there still alive and still out
496. 19:13there living his life so brilliant
497. 19:16so marty is fully exonerated out of
498. 19:19prison what's he doing now
499. 19:22um he's actually a real inspiration
500. 19:25because of his work with the innocence
501. 19:27project
502. 19:28marty decided to
503. 19:30become a lawyer he's actually the first
504. 19:34person who's been exonerated
505. 19:37from a murder charge in america to
506. 19:40qualify
507. 19:41as a acting lawyer
508. 19:44and he actually now works for the
509. 19:46innocence project and he's wow
510. 19:49he's happily married and yeah he he's
511. 19:52doing really well he does that's
512. 19:54fantastic a lot of speeches and
513. 19:57conventions things like that but yeah so
514. 20:00it's inspired him
515. 20:02to go and help other people that
516. 20:05you know are in
517. 20:06such horrific situation as he was
518. 20:10that's just fantastic and you know
519. 20:12talked about the innocence project
520. 20:13before they just do such an amazing job
521. 20:16when
522. 20:17you know people have
523. 20:19had
524. 20:20backs turned to them
525. 20:22time and time again the innocence
526. 20:23projects are there helping them so that
527. 20:25is absolutely wonderful that he's he's
528. 20:27gone on to do that that's fabulous
529. 20:29yeah he's very inspirational very
530. 20:32inspirational you know we've talked
531. 20:34we've talked about marty tonight and um
532. 20:39you've obviously
533. 20:40invested quite a bit of time in this
534. 20:42case looking at this case
535. 20:44why was that what what was it about this
536. 20:46particular case that that drew your
537. 20:48attention
538. 20:49oh god well it it was
539. 20:52more or less three years to the day that
540. 20:55the tragedies that white house farm
541. 20:57happened
542. 20:58and obviously at the time
543. 21:00following jeremy's case very much and
544. 21:03when marty's case happened in 1998
545. 21:07i was watching a lot of the american
546. 21:09crime shows and it was covered a lot on
547. 21:12that it was a very very high profile
548. 21:14case and there were just so many
549. 21:16parallels
550. 21:17to jeremy's face and not just at the
551. 21:20time but throughout you know they were
552. 21:22both him and his sister were adopted um
553. 21:26the corruption the non-disclosure that
554. 21:33yeah there is a lot isn't that you know
555. 21:36there is another suspect that is far
556. 21:38more obvious
557. 21:40than marty in this case and jeremy's far
558. 21:42more obvious was was sheila the
559. 21:46the suspect in marty's case was
560. 21:50friendly shall we say with the with the
561. 21:52police department and has never even
562. 21:55been suspect despite
563. 21:57behavior that would would make you go we
564. 22:01need to look at this guy
565. 22:02sheila was alive inside the house whilst
566. 22:05jeremy was outside with police so
567. 22:08it
568. 22:09you know there's there's that there's
569. 22:11like you say the non-disclosure there's
570. 22:13the interview techniques the
571. 22:15no solicitor hours and hours of
572. 22:17interrogation the police lying the
573. 22:20corruption side of things is
574. 22:23it doesn't just happen in the uk it
575. 22:25happens in the us and it happens all
576. 22:27over the world that innocent people are
577. 22:30being convicted of crimes they didn't
578. 22:32commit because people
579. 22:35don't want to or can't be bothered or
580. 22:38whatever it is to actually find the real
581. 22:40perpetrator and put the real person in
582. 22:43prison and that's what's happened in
583. 22:45marty's case and for him
584. 22:48he has never received justice for his
585. 22:51parents which i'm guessing probably what
586. 22:53he he really wants yeah absolutely that
587. 22:56is what he's still fighting for you know
588. 22:59he wants to see the person that murdered
589. 23:02his parents and that took away his
590. 23:05childhood and his family you know not
591. 23:07just his parents his sister and her
592. 23:11family
593. 23:12he lost everything the same way jeremy
594. 23:15did you know and
595. 23:17it doesn't just happen you know you see
596. 23:19it very much
597. 23:21especially in america with a lot of the
598. 23:23miscarriages of justice being
599. 23:26towards poorer
600. 23:28people you know you got a lot
601. 23:32but this again like jeremy a wealthy
602. 23:35family the police instantly took a
603. 23:38dislike to marty because he was a young
604. 23:42wealthy man both marty and jeremy have
605. 23:45been brought up to trust the police
606. 23:49and to believe what the police said you
607. 23:51know and police yeah something you take
608. 23:54that as gospel you know police don't lie
609. 23:58they're here to help you know yeah they
610. 24:01both walked into um they both walked
611. 24:03into a trap to their to their detroit
612. 24:06you know it's it's fantastic marty
613. 24:08achieved his freedom
614. 24:10he he's out now he will never get those
615. 24:1217 years back obviously
616. 24:15and um but ultimately
617. 24:18we wish him
618. 24:20all the very very best for the future
619. 24:22and we will continue as we as we do and
620. 24:25fight fight for jeremy jill thank you so
621. 24:27much for joining me i really appreciate
622. 24:30it
623. 24:30your knowledge on the cases is is
624. 24:32fantastic and um
625. 24:35thank you so much for joining me
626. 24:37lovely thank you very much thank you for
627. 24:38having me
628. 24:40bye bye
629. 24:41thanks for listening to this podcast if
630. 24:44you'd like to do something to help
631. 24:45jeremy bamba then sign our online
632. 24:48petition to the home secretary for the
633. 24:50disclosure of case documents still
634. 24:52withheld by essex police
635. 24:54visit www.change.org
636. 24:57[Music]
637. 24:58and search for jeremy bamba
638. 25:00and don't forget to share the link with
639. 25:02your friends and family
640. 25:04[Music]
641. 25:39you