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6,338 Days in Hell (Part 2 of 2) 🔥 Feat. Marty Tankleff - Ep: 52 | HellHasAnExitPod.com — Transcript

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0:07[Music]
0:12hey welcome to the hell has an exit
0:13podcast i'm your host brian alzate
0:16this show is not affiliated with any
0:18specific 12-step program if you or a
0:20loved one is struggling with an
0:21addiction please find a local 12-step
0:23meeting
0:24if you believe you may need detox or
0:26drug treatment of any kind please call
0:29888-699-9395
0:34to speak to a specialist the show is
0:36sponsored by united recovery project a
0:38state-of-the-art drug and alcohol rehab
0:40facility you can visit our website at
0:43unitedrecoveryproject.com
0:48[Music]
0:52hey and welcome to this special two-part
0:54episode the true story of marty tancliff
0:57if you missed part one please go back
0:58and listen to it it's episode 51
1:01this week is the continuation of this
1:03story part two marty has an amazing
1:05story of escape in a crazy hell
1:07accused and sentenced for a crime he did
1:09not commit for which he served over six
1:11thousand days in prison so here we go
1:14with part two of marty tancliff
1:16now i have to backtrack to 1993 because
1:20it's important
1:21in 1993 a woman by the name of colleen
1:24kovacs came forward to us
1:27and gave us a statement which we ended
1:28up turning over to the da's office
1:30she said i was at a party where joseph
1:32creeden if you remember joseph creating
1:34was one of todd sturman's henchmen
1:36and joseph creeden confessed that he was
1:39the murderer of marty's parents this is
1:411993
1:44we gave that information to the da's
1:46office in 1993 and they did nothing
1:50okay
1:51so you think about this in 1993 94 95 96
1:5597 98 1999
1:57finally 99 2000 we started
2:01uncovering some new evidence
2:03now when someone submits that evidence
2:05is that evidence always there forever
2:07they just can't bring it into court so
2:08you guys can can look at it
2:11so every state has a very weird
2:13procedural issue so
2:16if you bring a post-conviction motion
2:18and you raise an issue
2:20in some jurisdictions you can't bring
2:22that same issue up again
2:24thankfully in my case we were able to
2:26bring up all the issues now
2:28i also forgot to mention
2:30mccready who is the lead detective
2:32was being interviewed
2:34by a reporter
2:36who and during that interview
2:39he disclosed which was the first time we
2:41ever heard this
2:42that jerry stearman had hired hell's
2:45angels bikers to commit violent acts in
2:47the past
2:48so now you think about this that i mean
2:50obviously that's something we should
2:51have known at trial we should have known
2:52that jerry stewman whose son was a drug
2:54dealer has a connection to the house
2:57at least it didn't even matter if it was
2:59the hells angels or not so in fact of
3:02hiring somebody to commit violent acts
3:04yeah
3:05once again that information was brought
3:07to the da's office they did nothing with
3:09it
3:10so finally
3:12around
3:1299 2000
3:14i hired a private investigator who said
3:16if you're innocent hire me if not don't
3:19how are you funding this
3:21so
3:22thankfully
3:24in
3:251994-95 when steve braga got on the case
3:29they the case on pro bono and that is
3:31because a
3:33young woman who in many ways is a
3:35lifesaver laura tyshman was a girl i
3:36went to high school with wow and she
3:39wrote a paper about my case for her law
3:41school class holy [ __ ] and she was
3:44interning
3:45at a law firm out of law firm in
3:47washington dc called miller cassidy
3:49larocca and lewin
3:51and she pitched this case because
3:54she knew you she knew me
3:55she also knew that the lawyers who were
3:57representing me which was mark pomeranz
4:00and when they stopped representing me
4:02the firm was rogers and wells
4:04if anybody knows who rogers and wells
4:07is is that when the space shuttle
4:09exploded
4:10god knows how many years ago was the
4:12rogers commission
4:13and that firm had expended almost a
4:16million dollars working on my appeals
4:19because there is no cost that mattered
4:22to them they believed in me
4:24they wanted to work on my case but after
4:26you're saying that
4:28them working on your case cost them a
4:30million million dollars yes
4:32and it was at that point where they said
4:34listen marty we can't continue
4:35representing you we'll help you find out
4:36the lawyers we'll do whatever we can
4:39steve braga came on
4:41uh steve braga barry pollock and kirsten
4:43levingston back then
4:45and steve who was like the pro bono
4:47chair went to the firm and said listen
4:49this is a great case we'll litigate the
4:50case maybe a year or two we'll get marty
4:52home that was like 95.
4:55steve continued to represent me until i
4:57got out of prison in 2007. that's crazy
4:59no matter what firm he went to he
5:02continued to continue with my case
5:04and so did barry pollock and so did a
5:06lot of the other lawyers i mean
5:08what is their motive doing the right
5:09thing
5:10um crazy every lawyer will tell you if
5:13they have an opportunity to work on a
5:14wrongful conviction case in their life
5:17do it because it's the one thing that's
5:20rewarding
5:21you know you think about there was one
5:22of the lawyers that worked on my
5:24case his name was roberto gonzalez i
5:26think he was like 24 25
5:29and he worked on the dna motion because
5:31during my post-conviction proceedings
5:34we actually applied to the judge to have
5:35dna testing done and the judge denied it
5:38which to me is insanity i think anywhere
5:40in america if a defendant is asking for
5:42dna testing just do it yeah i mean you
5:45know prosecutors and diesels use it all
5:47the time to convict people and if you're
5:49defendant saying
5:51i'm willing to do the dna testing i'm
5:53willing to accept the test results just
5:55do it the judge denied it
5:57so roberto did the dna motion
6:01and he was so good at it that the judges
6:03afterwards so would you be willing to
6:04come back electors on it but when i got
6:07exonerated and released from prison he
6:09was a young lawyer who'd been involved
6:12in a wrongful conviction case he wasn't
6:13somebody who'd been practicing for 20 to
6:1530 years like bruce marquette he just
6:17had experience in wrongful communities
6:19no no he just what happened was is that
6:22a lot of the young lawyers dawn
6:25courtney
6:26celia
6:28roberto
6:29they got involved my case they all got
6:31invited out to a lunch by one of the
6:32partners and say hey come on let's go
6:33out to lunch and it became common
6:36knowledge that if one of the partners
6:37that were involved in the tanklef case
6:38invited you out to lunch you knew that
6:40was because you were being recruited or
6:42asked to work on the tanklef case
6:44and there wasn't a single attorney at
6:46any of the firms and i had
6:48you know millicastly laroccan lewin
6:51wilmer hale robeson gray clifford chance
6:55rogerson wells
6:57bruce barcat and his team i've had you
6:59know some of the nation's best lawyers
7:01who worked on my case and there wasn't a
7:02single attorney that ever said no
7:05and if you ask every one of them you
7:08know what is you know the most
7:10proud moment of their life they'll say
7:13birth of their children marriage and
7:15working on a wrongful conviction case
7:17and for some of my lawyers you know the
7:18fact that i've become a lawyer
7:20is really just amazing for them and you
7:23know one of their bucket list is okay
7:25marty we want you to be co-counsel on a
7:27case with us so we can say you know you
7:29went from client to colleague to
7:31co-counsel
7:32yeah i mean uh you know very different
7:34but i have uh you know a drug and
7:36alcohol rehab that i run i have seen
7:39client go from alumni client to
7:42employee to therapist
7:44so you know it's cool when you get to
7:46see that full circle it's it's very rare
7:49though like you know if you look at
7:51america tina was telling me that you're
7:52one of six it's probably
7:55now it's less than 10 i think in america
7:58of wrongful convicted exonerees that
8:01become attorneys i become attorneys wow
8:04i think i'm
8:05the only one
8:07you got to be the youngest no no no
8:10there are some youngers okay i'm the
8:11only one in america who can say that
8:13they're an exoneree a lawyer
8:16an adjunct professor at georgetown and
8:18an adjunct professor to our law school
8:20so i have you know dual professorships
8:23and an attorney i'm the only one
8:25i think i'm probably the only exoneree
8:27who can say that he
8:30is currently representing people in new
8:31york
8:32ohio
8:34texas pennsylvania and maryland wow and
8:37has been you took the bard all those no
8:39no
8:40so but i'm co-counsel okay so the one
8:43the one thing is in some of those cases
8:45that i'm allowed to do certain things as
8:47a non-attorney out there okay um but
8:50what i can do is is that i can get
8:52admitted what's called prohibited which
8:54is my permission
8:55but i'm also admitted in federal courts
8:57in the eastern district of new york the
8:59southern district of new york the second
9:00circuit court of appeals
9:02and the dc federal court in washington
9:05dc
9:06when i took the bar it was called the
9:07ube
9:09so you have a i think it's up to 280 285
9:12i scored a 277.
9:14you scored a 277 seven and with that
9:18score
9:19i think i can get admitted in every
9:21jurisdiction
9:22that takes ube but i think alaska i
9:24think alaska requires a 280.
9:27and alaska i think a lot i think it was
9:29i think alaska was a 2a there's one
9:30jurisdiction was like a 280 i'm like
9:32okay so i can't get admitted there okay
9:34so if i wanted to get admitted in a ub
9:36jurisdiction i've got the ube score i
9:39may just have to comply with some local
9:40rules
9:41but what i find is that with my
9:43experience co-counseling with local
9:45council
9:46does a lot better because they they're
9:49on the ground there they know the courts
9:50they but i bring in a very
9:53unique perspective and
9:55whole dimension
9:56yeah yeah you know they say like you
9:58know what comes from the heart reaches
10:00the heart and i think that um
10:02you know in my case there's a lot of
10:04times where there are people that are
10:05deemed unreachable and you know
10:07recovering addicts like myself can go in
10:10there and reach someone that everyone
10:12else is kind of like gone well if you
10:14ever want me to come and speak at you
10:15know your
10:16clinic please let me know because i
10:18think
10:19you know what i've been able to impart
10:21on a lot of people is that there is a
10:23way out
10:24and it's one of the things that that my
10:27we're jumping ahead yeah but mark howard
10:30mark howard is my childhood friend who
10:33decided to go to law school to fight to
10:35get me out of prison wow he cause he was
10:37a tenured professor at georgetown and
10:39you have a childhood friend that
10:40dedicated his life to law to help get
10:42you out of prison well here's the
10:44craziest thing so i can't even get my
10:45friends to hang out with me
10:47so
10:48mark actually wrote the first
10:51publication at the purple parrot
10:54articulating that i was innocent and i i
10:57think he deserves a pulitzer prize or
10:59whatever he can get because he was the
11:01only publication that got right
11:03you know we we joke about this but this
11:05is serious we always say that mark went
11:06to yale and marty went to jail and that
11:09there's truth to that cause he did go to
11:10yale and i did go to jail yeah
11:12he used to always tell people listen
11:13i've got this friend who's innocent in
11:15prison people yeah right yeah right
11:17right
11:18but he always used to talk about that
11:20mark after you know getting in his phd
11:23ended up becoming a professor at
11:24georgetown and we reconnected and he
11:26came to visit me in prison and he said
11:29i'm never going to stop fighting for you
11:31before he was a lawyer he actually
11:33reached out to about 60 of my high
11:35school classmates
11:37to see if they would sign a friend of
11:39the court an amicus brief okay and
11:42about 60 people signed the brief mark
11:44wrote it was filed with the court and
11:46was considered part of the appeal
11:48and marquette was accepted into
11:50georgetown law school
11:52and he was scheduled to start right
11:55after i got out but he we didn't know i
11:56was getting out that point yeah he
11:58decided to go to law school
12:00mark was a tenured professor of
12:01government
12:02and when he got involved with me his
12:05whole curriculum changed
12:07he started the prisons and justice
12:09initiative at georgetown
12:12he goes into prisons now and teaches
12:14college bearing classes
12:16he started the frederick douglass
12:18project
12:20two weeks ago
12:21because i recently joined the frederick
12:24douglass project as one of the board
12:25members we did a virtual prison visit
12:28and most of the prisoners had heard
12:30about me never met me
12:32and it wasn't until the very end
12:34that i said you know mark i said i have
12:36to thank you for coming to the prison
12:38that day
12:39and making a promise never to give up
12:41because you've given me more and more
12:43opportunities and all of a sudden one of
12:45the guys finally put two and two he goes
12:47oh my god marty you're neo you're neo
12:49you're the one
12:50and i kind of said oh my god i guess i
12:52am and mark said he goes you know he
12:53goes the frederick douglass project the
12:55prison would never be in existence if
12:57not for marty and not for me getting
12:59involved
13:00and mark and i have gone on to we
13:03co-teach a class at georgetown so from
13:06the time i got out mark would invite me
13:08down to georgetown i'd either go down
13:10there personally and speak to his
13:11classes or do back then it was skype
13:14yeah
13:15we started thinking about teaching a
13:17class together and i'm thinking myself
13:19this is crazy it was 2018.
13:22i got in 20 i got around 2007 i'm like
13:25marty being an adjunct professor
13:27georgetown like they're never going to
13:28prove this
13:29you know the idea was to
13:32use undergraduate students
13:34to reinvestigate real cases of potential
13:37wrongful convictions
13:39and have them
13:40create social media platforms
13:43and short documentaries and websites
13:46and as it would be
13:48we actually had a high school classmate
13:50of ours cindy dorfman
13:52they were based in dc and
13:54they heard about what we were doing and
13:56we go out to lunch in the tombs and we
13:59all said let's do it
14:00so
14:01mark pitched the idea of me becoming an
14:04adjunct professor at georgetown teaching
14:07this class with having rob and cindy
14:09and travis filming it
14:12that's what we did 2018 we taught this
14:14class at georgetown and we worked on
14:17five cases and within a few months of
14:20the class being over with valentina
14:22dixon was exonerated in new york state
14:24after serving 27 years in prison wow and
14:27the three students who worked on this
14:28case who they were all exchange students
14:30one came from france england and japan
14:34ellie and julie the two young women came
14:36from england and france they flew back
14:38for the day valentino got out
14:40and ever since 2018 mark and i have
14:42continued to teach the class
14:45we've helped get keith washington out
14:48recently in maryland
14:50and the keith washington is crazy
14:51because the the main witness against him
14:55has recently just been indicted for the
14:57perjury that put keith in prison awesome
15:01so mark and i and steve braga are now
15:04representing keith and that oh steve
15:06bragg is still practicing
15:08is still practicing law yes and getting
15:10exonerees exoneries
15:12so
15:13steve braga is now with the law firm
15:16bracewell who is this guy steve braga is
15:20the bomb yeah that's correct uh you know
15:22he's been involved in my case he's been
15:24involved in john huffington's he's been
15:25involved in the west memphis three case
15:28and you know he will tell you that it is
15:30one of the most rewarding work he's ever
15:33done
15:34you know we regularly have him as a
15:36guest speaker at our georgetown classes
15:38mark and i were also recently involved
15:41in the exoneration of eric riddick who
15:43was in prison in philadelphia for 29 and
15:46a half years
15:47and we have a few others that are in the
15:49in the world in the pipeline
15:52every semester you know our students do
15:54this amazing job you know we always have
15:56to remind people they're undergraduate
15:57students
15:59okay
16:00that reinvestigate cases they create
16:02social media platforms yeah because when
16:04i did john huffington he was telling me
16:06that these are students that are working
16:07in this case it's so so cool so in most
16:10cases most when you hear about these
16:11wrongful convictions it's most of them
16:13are law students yeah yeah you know we
16:15always have to remind you know the media
16:18the experts that come in they're
16:19undergraduate students because
16:21and the craziest thing is that you know
16:23some people say oh you know what can
16:24undergraduate students do when we start
16:26teaching this class like well like you
16:28said it's common sense
16:29it's exactly what they do they approach
16:31these cases using common sense
16:34i say they're jaded but i think they're
16:36naive about some of the corruption
16:38and we just guide them and we empower
16:40them and we educate them
16:43and they have done
16:45some of the most amazing work
16:47and the students walk away and say you
16:49know it's the best class we've ever
16:50taken
16:51we've had people at georgetown said it's
16:53the most impactful classes towards
16:54georgetown because it has a direct
16:56impact on someone's life i mean our
16:59students have the ability to give
17:00someone their life back i mean you know
17:03valentino keith and eric you know have
17:05told the students like you're my family
17:07like no matter where we go in life you
17:10you were part of helped me get my
17:11freedom out i mean the day keith
17:13washington got out i drove down to
17:15maryland i was standing outside the
17:17prison gates waiting for him
17:19i went back to his house you know and
17:22his wife and keith said listen mary we
17:23find out you're in the neighborhood and
17:24you don't stop by or you need to crash
17:26like we're gonna be really upset with
17:28you i'm like yeah fair enough
17:30i was in philadelphia recently at an
17:32event for a case and i texted eric
17:35riddick he goes you're in philly i'm
17:37coming to see you
17:38and it's just the bomb that we've
17:40developed with the the people we've
17:41worked on yeah
17:43and you guys have this like it's so
17:45interesting to me because you know being
17:47a recovering addict like we have
17:48conventions and we support each other
17:50and we get people clean and those people
17:52get clean and they start helping other
17:53people
17:54and like my desire to help other addicts
17:57is is from like this thing where like
17:59when someone pulls you out of this this
18:01hole you know like the guy who sponsored
18:04me till today i feel like this guy saved
18:06my life like he found me
18:08totally you know
18:10tore up from the floor up you know and
18:12he took time out of his day with no
18:14other motivation other than i can't
18:16leave unless i help this person and
18:18someone did it to him and it's like this
18:20pay it forward
18:21type of drive that uh surpasses anything
18:24else that i've ever seen you know it
18:26really is i mean most i want to say most
18:28i said a lot of exonerees feel
18:31inertia or this desire to pay it forward
18:34somehow
18:35um there are some exonerees that just
18:36want to kind of go on life
18:38and be quiet and there's recovering
18:40addicts do the same thing they don't
18:42it's fine i mean there are some that are
18:44some are very vocal
18:45you know i remember when i was before i
18:47was admitted as a lawyer members of
18:49paralegal how to go into a prison
18:52and i remember one of my lawyers said to
18:54me
18:55bruce buckhat he just looked at me was
18:58like this tough sterling look he's like
18:59scared he's like just get the [ __ ] over
19:02it marty he's like if you want to become
19:03a lawyer
19:05he's like get over it he's like you
19:06gotta do it
19:07and like you gotta understand bruce it
19:10was like there was that that fatherly
19:12but there with that strong emotion like
19:15confront it like it was like confront
19:16the fear and
19:17it reminds me of when i was in law
19:19school
19:20is this gonna blow your mind
19:22that i had to take a criminal law class
19:24it's just one major problem the
19:26professor
19:28was a judge
19:29but before he was a judge he was the
19:31assistant district attorney from suffolk
19:33county that fought to keep me in prison
19:35in the appeals union of the da's office
19:38and it was one of those moments i kind
19:39of said what do i do like i need to take
19:42this class but i have history with this
19:44guy this guy fought to get me in prison
19:46like how do i do this like and it was
19:48one of those things like i spoke to a
19:49lot of my lawyers they're like this
19:50marty you want to become a lawyer you
19:52may have to appear before him confront
19:54him
19:55and i remember confronting him and i
19:57said judge you talked to him after class
19:59no this was before he even enrolled in
20:01the class wow it's a judge i said you
20:04and i have history like did he even know
20:06who you are oh he knew they all know
20:08they everybody everybody in suffolk
20:09county and law firm
20:11but he especially because he fought to
20:13keep me in prison yeah as an ada
20:15and i said listen judges you and i have
20:17a history that's unlike any other
20:19student in here
20:21i'm like is that going to affect our
20:22relationship is it going to affect my
20:24grades
20:25and he stuck out his hand he goes no
20:26more because i welcome you in the class
20:29and i thought he was one of the best
20:30professors at toro
20:32we've stayed in context since then
20:35uh has he ever said any type of apology
20:38not really no but i've had enough
20:40interactions with him well you don't
20:42think he did it purposely or he didn't
20:44know that you're innocent he wasn't paid
20:46or anything like that
20:48he just made a judgment call no i think
20:51he worked for an office that said
20:54this is your job
20:55do this
20:56and a lot of law professor toro said
20:58listen marty the
21:00the judge is not the ada that put you in
21:02prison the judge is somebody different
21:03yeah anybody in my position like
21:05everybody said like marty were you crazy
21:07like you were taking his class like he
21:09could have just destroyed you
21:11and i confronted fate head on because
21:13i'm like you know what
21:14you know bruce is right like there's
21:16gonna come a day where i may have to
21:17appear before him yeah and as weird as
21:19it was before i was admitted i didn't
21:21have to appear before him but i appeared
21:22on cases
21:24with my law partner steve where i was in
21:26chambers with him and yeah i still
21:28remember there was a case where an
21:30individual was facing like 25 years and
21:32there was a plea offer on the table and
21:34i said your honor permission to speak in
21:36chambers because yeah and i said listen
21:38you're on i said i think if we can you
21:40know talk the guy down to like six years
21:42instead of ten i can talk to him because
21:44i think he can do sex
21:46and i remember
21:47that
21:48months later at the tour of graduation
21:51the judge came up to me and he said you
21:53know what because i have to appreciate
21:54he goes you know you're the only one in
21:55that room that really had the balls the
21:59balls and the right to speak on that
22:01exact issue yeah okay because it's
22:03really hard for people to be making
22:05calls about how long you need to go to
22:06prison when you've never done any prison
22:08time exactly i mean all these yeah all
22:10these lawyers like well you know he
22:11deserves 20 this guy says five in this
22:13case and it's like really i mean the
22:15client ended up getting a lot less like
22:17i think he ended up getting probation no
22:18time in jail
22:20but at that very moment when he was
22:21facing 25 years like hear all these
22:24lawyers saying this is what he could do
22:26this is what he should get and judge was
22:28like listen to marty yeah but we've
22:30still stayed in touch since then i mean
22:32that's the weird thing so let's go back
22:33to the story so you're in prison i think
22:35we're at the point where you've been in
22:37i think it's like 1999 2000 and i hired
22:40a private investigator who
22:42yeah did what would never have been done
22:45before investigation right
22:46so we started looking who created
22:48my who benefited financially from my
22:51conviction yeah my father's business
22:53partner
22:55okay jerry stewman's son todd drug
22:57dealer drug dealers have criminal
22:59associates so let's start there
23:01the private investigator went out found
23:04an individual by the name of glenn
23:05harris
23:06i think glenn housh was in prison at
23:08that time and glenn harris that has been
23:09waiting for this day for like 13 years
23:11holy [ __ ] and he said why he goes i was
23:13the getaway driver that night
23:15and that just opened pandora's box
23:18glenn harris identified joseph creeden
23:21this is the private investigator found
23:23him yes pride investigator found him
23:25because he did what no one else had done
23:26there nobody really did an investigation
23:28right
23:29so the getaway driver identifies joseph
23:31creedon now if you remember joseph
23:33creeden
23:34was one of todd's german forces but he
23:37was also the person who confessed to
23:40carlene kovacs in
23:421993. did anyone have that evidence at
23:45this time did anyone find that we had in
23:4793 we actually gave that evidence to
23:49da's office oh you guys have it we had
23:51it we gave it to the diaz in maine
23:53nothing never happened nothing ever
23:54happened to it right so now listen we
23:56have the getaway driver who goes yes
23:57joseph creating was involved
23:59so that started the identification of
24:01peter kent as one of the other murderers
24:04we also had other witnesses come forward
24:06who said
24:08jerry stewman tried to hire me to commit
24:10the murder but i passed it off on to
24:12someone else wow and we had a number of
24:14witnesses we had we had a businessman
24:17testify
24:18during public hearings but that should
24:20be it wait wait till i tell you who the
24:22final witness was
24:23in the hearing
24:25and when you hear where the final
24:26witness was that should be it right we
24:28had a priest and a nun testify that
24:31glenn harris confessed to them
24:34in prison
24:35of his involvement and who was involved
24:37with his okay yes he okay
24:42i was like a priest and not allowed to
24:44do this we had a businessman said that
24:48he
24:48was doing work at one of jerry stewman's
24:51stores and jerry said
24:53don't [ __ ] with you i've killed people
24:54before
24:55we had some of my family members we had
24:58my original lawyer
25:00we even had some people from law
25:02enforcement and some of their
25:04confidential witnesses
25:06testify
25:08but there's a problem
25:10so
25:12the ada assistant district attorney that
25:14was fighting to keep me in prison at
25:16that very moment his name was lenny ledo
25:19we had a witness who came to us and said
25:23i've got this exculpatory information
25:26jerry strummer tried to hire me i didn't
25:28want to do it okay and i gave it to
25:29so-and-so
25:31because there's just one problem when
25:32this witness came to us he goes i'm
25:33facing 25 years in suffolk for a new
25:36arrest
25:37so my lawyer was like listen we can't
25:39help you
25:40lo and behold when he finally comes to
25:42court
25:44lenny lato hires the son of a sitting
25:48federal judge
25:50okay
25:51who shares office space
25:54with the judges hearing my hearing his
25:56father
25:57okay when that witness came to us and
25:59said well he couldn't hire a lawyer
26:02okay we asked him how did you hire this
26:04lawyer his lawyer's name is william
26:05wexler william works as a son of a
26:07federal judge who's like best friends
26:08with lenny lado like well how did you
26:11hire william wexler i just did
26:13lo and behold the charges that were
26:15lodged against them because when he came
26:17into court he said i lied to marty's
26:19lawyers okay lo and behold we later
26:22found out all the charges were dismissed
26:24against him
26:25and when the attorney general got
26:27involved and started reinvestigating my
26:29case he admitted to them that what he
26:32told us was originally truthful
26:34and he was fearful of getting 25 years
26:37wow but on st patrick's day
26:40of 2007
26:43after we had 18 months of hearing the
26:45judge issued the decision the final
26:47witness in the hearing though was in
26:49january of that year
26:51it was joseph creeden's son
26:54joseph creeden's son said his father
26:56confessed to him of his involvement
27:00so
27:01i think a common sense approach would
27:02think oh my god after 18 months like
27:05number of witnesses now we have joseph
27:07creeden's son coming into court saying i
27:09was recently with my father and i asked
27:11my father about this and he admitted it
27:13he confessed to him
27:15now
27:16nobody would come to court and testify
27:18this if this wasn't truthful i mean i
27:20know at one point you know lenny lato
27:22said oh people are trying to get their
27:24five minutes of fame
27:25not who the hell wants you to fight with
27:27your
27:28double homicide case yeah
27:30it's just insanity right and how many
27:33years later is this years later i mean
27:35we're talking about
27:36the hearing started in
27:382005.
27:40that's when the
27:41the first day the hearings were in 2005
27:43and then until 2007.
27:46tragically on st patrick's day of 2007
27:50judge stephen brazlow issued the
27:52decision against me
27:53ruling against me and he said you know
27:55mr tagliff brought forward a cavalcade
27:57of nefarious scoundrels
28:00well you can imagine that the nefarious
28:02scoundrels included the priest the nun
28:04the businessman my family we're not
28:06happy being grouped into that so they
28:08held a big press conference afterwards
28:10but at that point you know
28:13we had filed four separate applications
28:15before brazil
28:17one of them was a main application which
28:19was arguing my innocence
28:21one was arguing that a special
28:23prosecutor should have been appointed
28:26because tom spoda who is the d.a
28:28had represented mccready the lead
28:30detective in my case in private practice
28:33and also represented the stewardman's
28:35when he was in private practice
28:37we also followed the dna motion which
28:39the judge denied
28:41and we also filed a motion based on a
28:43change in the law new york on depraved
28:45indifference
28:46now remember those lawyers from rogers
28:48and wells that had to disappear because
28:50they spent almost a million dollars well
28:51guess what they did
28:52they came back representing me pro bono
28:55on that issue because they believed in
28:57me so much
28:58so now when when brazil denied all of
29:01those motions we had actually asked
29:03permission to appeal to the appellate
29:05division which was the same court that
29:07denied me by 3-2
29:10in
29:101993
29:12long period of time thankfully they
29:14granted leave to appeal we filed the
29:16briefs and my lawyers made the arguments
29:19in september of 2007
29:22and i remember
29:24that period of time up until the
29:26decision day that's probably one of the
29:28worst periods of my life because you
29:30know i knew that the decision would take
29:32a few weeks
29:33but like awesome december comes around
29:36every day i'm calling up because i'm in
29:37comstock correctional facility
29:39aka gladiator school and i remember
29:42every day calling home is there a
29:44decision
29:45and my gut was telling me that like i
29:48didn't want to call home because
29:50every decision ever gotten wasn't good
29:52news
29:53this would be different though
29:55and i remember
29:57it was friday december 21st
30:00it was literally the last day that they
30:02were announcing decisions of the year
30:05and i remember calling home and i spoke
30:08to i think it was roz who was who's
30:11working on my case and she's like we won
30:13now here's the issue i had several
30:15appeals what did we win
30:18i don't know
30:19so here i am thinking like okay what did
30:20i did i win the dna not a big deal
30:23the stress of that point was just
30:26unimaginable
30:27wow because
30:29what you won i you know i didn't know
30:31what that meant yeah and
30:33finally i got through to bruce barkett's
30:36office and i spoke to the receptionist
30:38lenska
30:39who
30:40said to me don't tell bruce i told you
30:42but you won the big one
30:45one of those moments was like oh god
30:47thank you right
30:48and then when i when i spoke to bruce
30:50he's like
30:51you won he's like they granted a new
30:53trial
30:54he's like and then like oh my god like
30:57it was still hard to imagine and i
30:58remember him he's like listen pack your
31:00[ __ ] you'll never see the inside of a
31:02prison cell again oh my god and i was
31:04like this one was like bruce listen i
31:05know enough law there's an oral
31:07agreement i'm holding it to it it's
31:08binding
31:10and
31:11i remember
31:12literally probably with
31:15within a half hour to an hour of me
31:18getting making that phone call from the
31:19lot the whole jail knew
31:21wow because it was it made all of the
31:23news steve braga who was the lead lawyer
31:27who did the oral argument on that case
31:30was on a vacation
31:34and he made it a point to schedule a
31:35legal phone call with me
31:37and then he told me he's like marty he
31:39goes you're never going to believe this
31:40he's like
31:41before i went on this trip because i had
31:43a dream
31:44that this was gonna happen and it was
31:46gonna happen on this day i'm like what
31:49and i remember like literally the whole
31:52jail new like everywhere i went
31:53congratulations congratulations i
31:56remember going back to the cell block i
31:57think it was after the legal phone call
31:59at some point
32:00and i was standing next to my friend lou
32:02and one of the officers said he's like
32:03you know do you want to lock in like
32:05what do you mean lock in like aren't you
32:06afraid somebody's going to do something
32:08to you and lou said to him he goes they
32:10got to go through me and everyone else
32:11around here first the were like oh my
32:13god
32:14and i remember thinking like okay you
32:17know what like nothing's gone quickly
32:19here like how am i gonna get down like
32:20what's gonna happen
32:22and then finding out that bruce barkett
32:24spoke to the ada lato
32:26and said listen we want to get marty
32:27down here can we make it happen quickly
32:29and he's like ah it may take a few
32:30months
32:32and bruce said well you know if i speak
32:33to the sheriff when i get a court order
32:35you know you do cares like it's like do
32:36what you want
32:38bruce ended up speaking to the sheriff
32:39he said listen you get me a quarter i'll
32:40get marty now in 24 to 48 hours
32:43bruce got a court order and i was
32:45produced and i was brought down on
32:47december 26th
32:49to the suffolk county jail
32:51and on obviously not much sleep that
32:53night yeah but it was very weird like i
32:56have moments on the on the car ride home
32:58not even home
33:00because i didn't know if i was getting
33:01released i remember from comstock
33:04leaving the jail and
33:07one of the officers took my prison id
33:09card he's like i'm going to sell this on
33:10ebay one day
33:12like i didn't know what the hell ebay
33:13was
33:15and i remember like the two officers
33:17kind of just they were nice
33:19okay i was like okay what's going on is
33:20this real and i remember just like
33:22taking in all the sights along the way
33:24like the trees and the animals and the
33:27smells and just little things
33:30we get down to the county jail and
33:32there's press everywhere
33:34i walk in i get processed in and still
33:38not believing it's real like it's still
33:41like when you get out you're out right
33:44so the following day i get brought over
33:46to court you know the courtroom was
33:48packed my lawyers were there
33:50and i was freed
33:52but the weirdest thing was i remember
33:54hearing the judge say
33:55you're free on a million dollars bail
33:57and then the court offices put the
33:58handcuffs back on me and like took me
34:00back into custody i'm going
34:02what the hell's going on here i'm like
34:03didn't they just say it was free yeah
34:05and i didn't know this at that moment
34:07but
34:08generally you had to go back to the jail
34:11to get processed out of the jail and
34:13release that way
34:15but this is happening they don't just
34:16like let you leave the courthouse but
34:17since i had no property and really
34:19nothing
34:20bruce thankfully had enough
34:22relationships with the courthouse in the
34:23jail but he said listen because
34:25let's just process marty out on paper
34:27let him get released from like court
34:29officers
34:30and i remember
34:31leaving the court officers like bullpen
34:33area going out like this garage door
34:36and i remember hearing helicopters off
34:37above and there was just crowds of
34:39people
34:40and my lawyers were surrounding me and
34:41they're like we gotta go back into the
34:42courthouse
34:44i remember looking at him like i don't
34:45want to go back there i'm you crazy like
34:48i just got released in there why
34:50like listen you gotta do a short press
34:51conference
34:52but the biggest thing i remember was is
34:54that they were walking so fast or at
34:56least i thought they were walking fast
34:58and i was like can you slow down like
34:59mario you're okay i'm like
35:01it's my first steps as a free man like
35:04kind of enjoy it like i kind of want to
35:06just
35:07feel this right like kind of enjoy it
35:10i remember going back into the
35:11courthouse
35:12and there's actually a funny end to this
35:14because
35:15you know i didn't know this but
35:16everybody had to put their phones on
35:17silent
35:19and they had some bodyguards there to
35:21kind of protect me and the family and
35:23all of a sudden when the press
35:24conference over the two bodyguards swept
35:25me away
35:26brought me into a car
35:28and nobody turned their cell phones back
35:30on so heroes i was out on a million
35:32dollars bail okay and nobody could find
35:34me yeah literally moments after i just
35:36got out of jail no refund where the hell
35:38is he okay and finally every turn their
35:41cell phones on and i met up with my
35:42family i said to them i said on the way
35:45home i want to stop off this one gas
35:46station get a cup of coffee and a bagel
35:49like what
35:50and i go throughout the post-conviction
35:52proceedings
35:54the sheriffs used to stop at this gas
35:56station get me a coffee and a bagel they
35:58were nice yeah and i said this would be
36:00the final time i'd ever stop eating and
36:02get a coffee and a bagel and it has been
36:04i've never gone back to that gas station
36:06but it was one of those defining moments
36:07that i'm like i made it like i'm help
36:11and i thought
36:13that would be the end of it like i
36:15thought i'm out but it wasn't there was
36:17still a lot more fighting to go yeah
36:19because you still had to go to trial
36:21right so this was i got on december 27th
36:26and it was how many years in prison was
36:27that in total 6 338 days so not that i
36:31was counting
36:32about 17 and a half years okay but i
36:35remember
36:36a few days later the state had announced
36:39that they were opening an investigation
36:42into the conduct of the suffolk county
36:44da's office of my case back then
36:47tom spoda
36:49had announced that he was dismissing the
36:52items against me but my next court date
36:54was like january 18th okay and this was
36:58like maybe january 4th or 5th that he
37:00made the announcement
37:02every day bruce was saying something's
37:05up something's up because he said why do
37:07we have to wait till the 18th to go to
37:08court like just let's go now like any
37:10ada can go into corn set dismissal
37:13i was out to dinner with
37:15family and friends in the city and i got
37:17a phone call from bruce like there's bad
37:18news what's it like getting out like i
37:21need to know like what you went to go do
37:25uh what it was like to have like your
37:27friends around you
37:28uh what it was like like seeing
37:30technology for the first time
37:32so getting out was
37:34you gotta step back and just kind of
37:37slowly process all the little things
37:38right
37:40first time like i'm back in a car like a
37:42normal car
37:43using a cell phone
37:45okay cause when i went to prison a cell
37:47phone was like this big huge box of the
37:49battery and here's somebody who's hand
37:50me his little thing like i was talking
37:52on the phone
37:54mark howard flew back from france your
37:56best friend my friend best friend flew
37:58back from france for this
38:00my family brought me back to my family's
38:01house and
38:03they had a catered from like one of my
38:05favorite restaurants when i went to
38:06prison they were still around so i came
38:08to the food i had family and friends
38:10there there was press there
38:12i remember somebody got me a flip phone
38:14okay and my phone number and i still
38:17have that number to this day
38:19and somebody the day within hours of me
38:21getting out they set up an email from me
38:23and i saw the same email
38:26and i remember somebody said we're gonna
38:28show you how technology works i'm like
38:30what are you gonna show me like we're
38:31gonna send an email to like australian
38:33watch how quickly right
38:35and literally it was like 30 i'm like
38:36what like how is it even possible right
38:40and you didn't know how email worked not
38:42really we didn't have access to it i
38:44mean here was i don't think like you
38:46hear about it or something you you hear
38:47about it but to experience it in person
38:50right listen i used to hear about like
38:52great restaurants or opening up in the
38:54city i give family and friends like
38:55recommendations to go to restaurants
38:57used to laugh at me about that
38:58because i used to have this philosophy
39:00that i was never living in prison i was
39:02only temporarily residing there
39:04and since there was only temporary
39:05residing there like i read up on
39:07restaurants like technology and just do
39:10things that people thought were very
39:11weird of me so like i'm not going to
39:14die in this jail yeah you envisioned
39:17yourself being out constantly constantly
39:19envisioned myself what i was going to do
39:21and i remember 1993 okay
39:25this was before my first appeal was
39:27denied my friend eric
39:29was my next-door neighbor
39:31clean correction facility
39:33i think lower age block
39:35tier three i think we were south seven
39:37and eight i was seven i think he was
39:39eight
39:40and i remember this so clearly he's like
39:42so what are we going to do when we get
39:43out
39:44and he's like we're both getting out now
39:46he was at that point facing 25 years to
39:48life he was serving 25 years
39:50for a murder that somebody else did
39:53he was present for it the guy who did
39:55the murder
39:57made a deal so he testified against eric
39:59and the other person
40:00he gets the deal he gets in a third of
40:0225. this is your neighbor this is my
40:04neighbor okay what type of neighborhood
40:05you grew up in no no this is my neighbor
40:07in prison
40:09[Laughter]
40:23going to become an artist because i'm
40:24going to live on the upper west side
40:26mm-hmm i said well i'm going to get out
40:28i'm going to you know become a lawyer
40:30wow in 1993 you know 1990
40:33a lawyer we built i mean listen i was
40:35serving 50 years to life he was serving
40:3725. wow
40:39we both had visions of what our future
40:42was going to be
40:44so important what do you think happened
40:46to him he's an artist his conviction got
40:49reversed
40:50okay he had almost 10 years in they said
40:53well you could go back to trial or you
40:54could accept a plea bargain of 5 to 15.
40:57he's like i've got almost five to you
40:59know i've got almost in he took it he's
41:01living the upper west side he's an
41:03artist okay
41:05and you know when we the first time we
41:06got to lunch after i got out and
41:09everything we were like oh my god like
41:10this is going to
41:12manifest itself into reality yeah
41:15you know i remember little things like i
41:17remember like i was being interviewed by
41:19rosanna scotto in new york city
41:21and you know we were talking about oh
41:23you know people randomly people come up
41:24to me and say things to me and so we go
41:27on the street that happened then all of
41:28a sudden i said rosanna said why are
41:30these people talking to themselves
41:31are they crazy like can i leave all the
41:33crazies behind she's like no they're on
41:34their phone like what do you mean
41:35they're on the phone she's like they're
41:36on bluetooth i'm like what are you
41:37talking about there's nothing in their
41:38hands it's like in the ear i'm like oh
41:41god like that was like some early
41:43exposure
41:44but i remember like that first day like
41:47having a drink and everybody was like
41:49be careful marty you know you haven't
41:51had real alcohol i'm like yeah i know
41:52i've had a real alcohol
41:54like
41:54and then just real foods
41:57and
41:58just a lot of the adjustments okay
42:01but you know what helped was my my
42:03family had a house in pennsylvania and
42:05we were able to deceive the press
42:08which was a funny story where literally
42:10my family goes out the front door we
42:12wave goodbye to everybody because the
42:13press is like they're like glued to
42:16watch me wow i go out the back door
42:18through the woods to a parking lot my
42:20family picks me up we leave out of state
42:21all right
42:23i remember the the first day we were up
42:25there i think it was like 28th or 29th
42:29woke up before everyone else it was
42:30snowing outside i remember i made a cup
42:32of coffee
42:33i'm liking long johns and i'm sitting
42:35outside it's probably 20 to 25 degrees
42:38having a cup of coffee watching the
42:40sunrise and seeing it snow and just
42:42going holy [ __ ] i made it like i
42:44survived like i'm out of prison like i
42:47survived and you know so my family
42:49started wake up i'm like why is he
42:50outside like just longer isn't it cold
42:53you know what it was the adrenaline or
42:54just the euphoria that that felt that
42:56i'm here i am sitting i made myself a
42:58cup of coffee i'm watching the sun rise
43:01there's no prison bars i'm free
43:04like is this real
43:06right and it's like shawshank redemption
43:08when it goes to mexico it really is and
43:11and you know you think like in my head
43:13i'm thinking like okay that's gonna be
43:15it right and then all of a sudden like a
43:17week or two later i get this bombshell
43:19like
43:19the indictments aren't getting dismissed
43:21okay
43:22the governor who was elliot spitzer back
43:24then
43:25had appointed a special prosecutor to
43:27investigate in the case
43:29so we
43:30honestly believe through conversations
43:32we've had with people that
43:34spoda didn't want to dismiss the
43:35indictments against him that he begged
43:38spitzer to appoint a special prosecutor
43:40to remove the case from him
43:42and that's what they did they the
43:44special prosecutor took over
43:46they investigated the case for six
43:48months
43:49they first six months you don't really
43:50have this freedom because it's kind of
43:53like you probably don't even think it's
43:55really real i knew it was real because i
43:58had enrolled at hofstra university
44:01so like three weeks after i'm out i'm a
44:02student hofstra i wanted to finish my
44:04bachelor's degree
44:06wow and that was
44:09a challenge of itself because the you
44:11know the press wrote some horrible
44:12articles they found like one student who
44:14said well i don't want marty on campus
44:16he's a convicted murderer i mean the
44:18majority of the students were like no he
44:20you know he the conviction was torn out
44:21he's more than welcome here
44:23yeah but i remember every class i chose
44:27i chose the seat closest to the door
44:30because i said i'm a goldfish and a sea
44:32of sharks i'm never going to survive
44:34this
44:34i didn't want to take my jacket off
44:36you know i'm around people who grew up
44:38on technology i'm
44:40you know 37 years old these they're 18
44:4319 20 like how am i going to survive
44:46this
44:47and lo and behold i became more
44:48accustomed okay i never i never really
44:51talked about who i was i mean i figured
44:52people some people knew who i was
44:55and then all of a sudden one day i'm out
44:56having lunch with one of my stupid
44:58friends over there she goes do you think
45:00he got me an interview with barry shuck
45:02and he looked really cool why why can't
45:04she oh i know who you are marty she goes
45:06i'm cool with it she goes i believe in
45:08you my whole family does wow i was like
45:09oh okay
45:11but like one of the best moments was i
45:14know we're jumping ahead mm-hmm
45:16so i'll backtrack so
45:18here i was i was a college student but i
45:20had double murder indictments over my
45:23head
45:24never knowing what the next step was is
45:26because the convictions at that point
45:28weren't completely thrown out they were
45:30just i was granted new trials there was
45:32a body of evidence and we had a feeling
45:34that the attorney general uncovered more
45:36evidence which they did
45:37they uncovered forensic evidence that
45:39had been withheld they were in the
45:41possession of suffolk county police the
45:42whole time
45:44they uncovered other witnesses
45:46they also tried to fabricate
45:49incriminating evidence against me by
45:50trying to convince people i was in
45:52prison with to testify falsely against
45:54me wow
45:55thankfully none of those people did
45:58and the indictments were dismissed that
46:01summer
46:02and i remember when so
46:05the decision to dismiss the indictments
46:07came out
46:08i was driving from albany back home
46:12my phone was blowing up but i was just
46:14starting to drive like i didn't want to
46:15answer the phone and finally i said
46:16ma'am it's like 30 phone calls like what
46:18the hell happened
46:19i finally pulled over like it's over
46:21with mari the case is over the
46:22indictments are dismissed done
46:24this was like it was like one of those
46:26moments like
46:27like being like okay is it really real
46:29now is it really real
46:32from that moment forward like i really
46:34haven't turned back and like one of the
46:36best moments was is that
46:38at the end of 2008 i wanted to do a
46:40semester abroad in venice italy needed a
46:43passport there was just one problem the
46:45passport agency still had it down that i
46:47had a criminal conviction
46:49and i remember somebody involved in my
46:50case that amazing marty you know a year
46:52ago we were trying to get you out of
46:54prison serving 50 years to life
46:56this year we're trying to get you out of
46:57the country what a difference a year
46:59makes yeah
47:00and i remember going to venice italy and
47:03having the time of my life so cool i
47:06mean literally like do you still feel
47:08like a kid
47:09yeah
47:10i tell people that you know even though
47:13i just turned 50 i said you got to take
47:1517 years away from me that's kind of my
47:17real age right
47:19and the reason why i feel like i'm i'm
47:20still a kid is
47:22i missed out on so much stuff growing up
47:26that's how i feel um
47:28and i think people don't understand like
47:30when i talk about like i want to go ride
47:31a go-kart or
47:33i want to go to this restaurant or i
47:34want to go to this arcade they look at
47:36me like you're 50. like what are you
47:37doing
47:38or like you know why are you hanging out
47:40with your students or why are you going
47:41to dinner with your students i'm like
47:43they're cool people they're educated
47:45have great conversations it makes me
47:47feel young
47:48you know it's all these things but
47:50you know you think about this right
47:53you take away
47:5518 years of someone's life the the prime
47:57of their life from 19 to almost 40.
48:02okay your whole natural maturation stops
48:05i mean you know i remember when i was
48:07going to law school
48:08i used to say i'm a failure i'm like
48:10here i am i don't have any career i've
48:12got no savings i got no job
48:15and
48:15my wife said to me she's like listen
48:17more she goes
48:18have the same conversation 10 years from
48:20now yeah okay
48:22and i remember like all of a sudden like
48:24i was a lawyer
48:26my civil rights case is settled
48:29i was now doing professor georgetown i
48:31remember i was at a legal event where
48:33bruce one of my lawyers was there and it
48:34was a bunch of his partners and other
48:35lawyers they said let's go around this
48:37circle like what do you do and they were
48:39like okay i'm a lawyer lawyer laura what
48:41do you do marty well i'm a lawyer and a
48:42professor at georgetown lego and how
48:44many of you served almost 18 years in
48:45prison think about that he's like stop
48:48he's like think about this he's like
48:50you've been out almost just about 10
48:51years yeah because in 10 years you get
48:53your bachelor's degree a law degree
48:56he goes you're an adjunct professor at
48:58georgetown georgetown university like
48:59one of the preeminent institutions in
49:01america
49:02okay
49:03in 10 years yeah because guarantee you
49:06he goes in the next few years
49:08you'll be able to say you're doing
49:10better than the people who put you in
49:12prison or fought to keep you in prison
49:14guess what he's right mccready lead
49:16detective dead
49:17okay
49:19cancer i think okay lato the prosecutor
49:21who fought to get me in prison died
49:23while he was swimming wow joseph creeden
49:26one of the murderers dead
49:28so weird i want to clap peter kent dead
49:31wow
49:32the chief of police who was working with
49:35spoda
49:36went to prison himself for four years
49:39spoda just went to prison okay
49:42brazil should understand the judge who
49:44ruled against me that's a cavalcade
49:46under pharaoh's scoundrels because those
49:48are men
49:49who were evil who put me in prison and
49:53kept and fought to keep me there for
49:55almost 20 years
49:56those are nefarious scandals not the
49:58witnesses who testified in my case of
50:00course when did you sue the state
50:03shortly after everything was reversed we
50:06filed a
50:07this is another crazy story
50:10so at the back backtrack for one second
50:12i'll go to that story so
50:14as soon as i can i i jumped on board
50:16helping the innocence project out and in
50:17two got out of law school gotta no just
50:20got out of jail even before
50:22law school i was still traveling on the
50:23innocence project and one of the things
50:25that i
50:27did was i testified before back then it
50:30was senator eric schneiderman an
50:32assemblyman michael gianaris
50:34in harlem it was myself in yusuf salaam
50:36we testified
50:38and i remember that day eric
50:39schneiderman said you know i apologize
50:42on behalf of all new yorkers for your
50:43wrongful conviction
50:45and thereafter he actually wrote a
50:47letter for my admission to law school
50:48where he articulated his belief in me
50:51a few years later i was getting ready to
50:53finish up law school and my court of
50:55claims case was getting ready for trial
50:59i would have had to either settled my
51:01case
51:02go to trial
51:04or my final year of law school
51:06eric schneiderman happened to be the
51:08attorney general
51:09at that very moment
51:12and we kind of said eric do you remember
51:14the letter you wrote marty
51:16okay this doesn't have to go to trial so
51:18the state settled
51:20i was actually able to finish my last
51:22year law school
51:23but who do you think the commencement
51:24speaker was at my law school graduation
51:27eric schneiderman
51:29the attorney general of new york
51:31and i remember you know when you go
51:32across the stage he was the i was the
51:34only person he hugged i said
51:36congratulations
51:37and when i get off the stage pump you
51:38like how did you know him yeah how do
51:40you know him like it's a little weird
51:42i also had a federal civil rights case
51:45that settled
51:47years later um through mediation so i've
51:50settled a state court of claims and a
51:52federal civil rights claim
51:54but
51:55there's no amount of money you can give
51:57me or any alexander rig that can ever
52:01make up for what was taken from us one
52:03thousand percent you know i've heard
52:04people say well you know look how much
52:06money he got so i said okay let me ask
52:08you a question i said if you were sent
52:10to prison for 50 years
52:12and you survived 20 of them and you got
52:15out after 20 would you take 25 million
52:18dollars right now they're like hell no
52:20and not just that there was no guarantee
52:22of you getting out you know so it's not
52:25like hey you're going to do 17 years
52:27it's like every waking moment is like
52:29you have no idea i used to tell people
52:32the best time of day was night
52:35when i was sleeping because it was the
52:37escape from reality i said the worst
52:39morning was waking up to hell and that
52:42hell was
52:43waking up and seeing prison bars
52:46and realizing that i'm in a cage and
52:48guess what i'm locked in this cage until
52:50a prisoner guard opens up that cage
52:53you know i used to do things very weird
52:55there were times i'd put my headphones
52:56on and face the inner wall
52:58and kind of try to distract myself from
53:01the whole world
53:02i would read the new york times and law
53:04journals and magazines because i said to
53:06myself i don't wanna
53:08i don't live here i reside here i'm
53:09going to get out one day yeah and after
53:12i got out i went like i said i went from
53:14finished my bachelor's degree at hofstra
53:17went out to torah law school
53:19had some obstacles getting admitted to
53:20the bar in new york i would imagine not
53:23for the reasons you think though um
53:26if i told you that the chief of the
53:28character fitness committee
53:31his father was a suffolk county police
53:32commissioner
53:34and this individual was involved in my
53:36case in 1988
53:39and involved in getting one of the
53:40witnesses disbarred there's some history
53:42there yeah thankfully it all worked out
53:45and what worked out was great was the
53:47day i was sworn in
53:49ronaldo rivera who was the presiding
53:51judge that heard my appeal at freeman
53:542007 was on the panel that swarming in
53:58so here it was
54:00my case was arguing the appellate
54:01division second apartment in 2007
54:04and in 2020 i got to physically walk
54:07into that courtroom and get sworn in by
54:10judges that freed me
54:12and what made the day even more amazing
54:14was that there were court officers that
54:15were there who said marty
54:17i was here in 2007 when your case was
54:19argued and to be able to be here today
54:22to see you getting sworn in before the
54:24same court that freed you is just
54:26amazing it's amazing
54:28so cool
54:29it really was an amazing day for me
54:32because
54:33you know i i've remained friends with
54:35some of the judges i mean judge
54:37kraussman who is one of the lead and
54:40vocal advocates on my panel i'm i still
54:42stay in touch with him
54:44and one person which which i have to
54:46mention which
54:47remember the name grito calabrese greedo
54:49calabresi was the judge who ruled
54:52against me in the second circuit the
54:53fifth judge uh no no he was the federal
54:56judge
54:57okay there was only three judges he's
54:59the one that wrote the opinion that
55:00remade it for the batson hearing
55:02so when i was at hofstra roberto
55:05gonzalez was one of my lawyers
55:07and i knew he'd clerked for guido
55:09calabresi and i said to robertson i'd
55:11love to go to law school
55:12you know yale harvard would be great and
55:14unbeknownst to me roberto reached out to
55:16guido guido ruled against me guido's
55:19decision kept me in prison
55:21the response was i'd like marty to come
55:24up to new haven and i'd like to meet him
55:26now
55:27think about this i you know here i am
55:28like guido calabresi is this
55:32leader in in the legal world he was the
55:34former dean of yale law school
55:36you know federal judge on the second
55:37circuit court of appeals and he wants me
55:38to meet him
55:40i went up there met him and the first
55:43thing he did was ask for my forgiveness
55:46for ruling against me wow and
55:49ever since
55:51then we're on a first name basis
55:53guido wrote a letter from me to be
55:56admitted to law school
55:58guido was one of my character references
56:00for getting admitted to the bar
56:03and he is still
56:05you know he's not really a rabbi but
56:07it's just to me
56:09you know and everybody hears the story
56:10and reese's letter is kind of like wait
56:12a minute this guy ruled against marty
56:14yeah what a decision that kept him in
56:16prison but they're on a first name basis
56:17and their friends i go yup that's me
56:19that's crazy it's
56:21i want to go back to you know
56:24because like yeah i understand that the
56:25money can never make up for it but there
56:27are so many people that don't get
56:28anything
56:30and that's something that i've argued
56:32consistently i've said
56:34society has two huge failures when it
56:36comes to wrongful convictions right
56:38one is we don't have a system where we
56:40have like
56:42corporations and companies making
56:44donations to create welcome home
56:45packages right because i remember when i
56:47got home you know most people don't even
56:50think about everyday things you need
56:52underwear socks toothpaste toothbrushes
56:56clothing
56:57at least you have like family some
56:59people don't have that don't have that
57:00right
57:01but even that why should
57:04my family my friends be why should it be
57:06their burden i mean listen they've been
57:08fighting me for all these years when it
57:10was society right mm-hmm but i've seen
57:12it that's the least they can do is have
57:13some type of welcome home page so you're
57:15telling me that in america okay when
57:18you're only talking about 100 to 170 580
57:22innocent people coming home each year
57:24there's 180 people that come home
57:27innocent possibly i mean i think the
57:29other a few years ago was 176 right wow
57:32that number should scare your listeners
57:34for one simple fact
57:36translates that one innocent person is
57:38being released every two to three days
57:40in america
57:42which translates that the guilty parties
57:44have remained free
57:46to commit additional crimes to victimize
57:48their communities
57:50it's insane it is but you know we can do
57:52better right you know it's you know the
57:54corporations in america right how
57:56difficult would it be for amazon or
57:59american express or nike to give a gift
58:02card like 150 gift cards right and put
58:04together a gift package when somebody
58:06exonerate comes so i'm saying here
58:08here's a gift package right i think that
58:10there should be
58:12a standard
58:13some kind of settlement structure not
58:15even a settlement structure but a
58:17compensation structure
58:19that should exist almost automatically
58:21because the one thing people don't
58:22understand is that you can be exonerated
58:25in federal court i mean exonerated from
58:28a criminal court
58:29but then when you sue and many times you
58:31have to re-prove your innocence so it's
58:33like you're being victimized all over
58:35again having to prove something again
58:38that was already proven
58:40it cost money and time and energy
58:43and some people probably never want to
58:45be in a courtroom ever again be deposed
58:47i mean
58:48for me i actually sat in the same room
58:51for the depositions as well how long was
58:53the court hearing you know the process
58:56of you
58:57doing the state
58:59so i mean it was about 10 years it was
59:00about 10 years
59:01that's insane insane that's insane
59:04it's insane for one simple fact
59:06if somebody gets out of prison
59:09doesn't have a skill doesn't have family
59:11doesn't have friends what is he supposed
59:12to do yeah
59:14you know
59:15if you're guilty the state does more for
59:17you they're supposed to help you find
59:19housing they give you a bus ticket if
59:21you're innocent and you don't have
59:23family or friends
59:24you're dumped on the side you know
59:26unless you have good lawyers or a good
59:28organization
59:29that's why we as a society can do more
59:31right
59:32you know i've said this time and time
59:33again if the billionaires of the world
59:36gave one quarter of one percent of their
59:39net worth
59:40put into a fund
59:42okay you can call it the exotic refund
59:45right where we could take that money
59:48invest it
59:49and we could take the the proceeds off
59:52those investments
59:53and give each examiner who gets out
59:55something to start their lives up
59:58we do be a much better society yeah okay
1:00:00because we these exonerees won't have to
1:00:02worry about suing possibly going back to
1:00:04court and litigating if amazon gave a
1:00:07thousand dollar gift card to every
1:00:09exoneree what does that really cost
1:00:11amazon knowing that jeff bezos is what
1:00:13the world's richest man i mean think
1:00:16about this right
1:00:17you know you're talking about toothpaste
1:00:18you're not talking about luxury items
1:00:20you're not talking about homes i mean
1:00:22listen elon musk yes i think you should
1:00:25give every exoneree a tesla
1:00:27okay think about it what i mean what
1:00:28would 150 teslas cost elon musk
1:00:32knowing the worth of tesla nothing
1:00:36but you know think about college loans
1:00:38right think about people who have
1:00:39college loans that built over over the
1:00:41years
1:00:42you know when the state has kidnapped us
1:00:45threw us in a cage for 18 years
1:00:49there are certain basic things you could
1:00:51do
1:00:52to help the reacclimation to society
1:00:54okay forcing me to take out student
1:00:57loans and pay those new loans back
1:00:59horrible
1:01:00okay because when people don't
1:01:01understand right
1:01:02when you apply for a job or a credit
1:01:04card you have no credit history you have
1:01:06no history i remember the first time i
1:01:08went in there yeah of course i have no
1:01:09history right
1:01:10and i remember the first time i got a
1:01:12debit credit card there was a credit
1:01:14card i don't know what the hell it was i
1:01:15remember using a credit card i'm like
1:01:16yeah yeah so the bank says you've over
1:01:18drafted i'm like what do you mean
1:01:19overdraft i'm like it's a credit card
1:01:21like no it's a credit debit card like
1:01:22what the hell is that
1:01:24you know there are things that we don't
1:01:26have like a re-entry education program
1:01:28yeah
1:01:29okay because you think about somebody
1:01:31who's been locked up for 30 years you
1:01:33think they know about 401ks and digital
1:01:35and
1:01:36crypto
1:01:42you know just all of these little things
1:01:45that i always tell people we're not
1:01:47talking about thousands of people we're
1:01:50really not we're talking about
1:01:52maybe 100 to 150 people on average per
1:01:56year yeah right
1:01:58you don't think nike can donate 150 or
1:02:01300 pairs of sneakers come on
1:02:04and
1:02:04thankfully i've been able to get on my
1:02:06feet i've actually helped people
1:02:08but it's there are things i still
1:02:10promote every day because i believe in
1:02:12it you know some people say well you
1:02:13know you had family and friends you're
1:02:14right i did yeah which was lucky for me
1:02:16right i said but i still had friends who
1:02:19took me clothes shopping they bought
1:02:20clothing for me
1:02:22i had lawyers that i knew some not that
1:02:24worked on my case they gave me small
1:02:25donations because they wanted to do
1:02:27something for me
1:02:28but they couldn't understand what to do
1:02:31i mean there are funny stories like i
1:02:32remember bruce barkad we went out to
1:02:34lunch
1:02:35right there started working with them
1:02:36and we went to a restaurant i ordered
1:02:38duck tacos
1:02:39mango iced tea and truffle fries
1:02:43he just looked at me he goes are you
1:02:44sure you were in prison i go what do you
1:02:46mean he goes what happened just burger
1:02:48and fries he's like how do you know
1:02:50about duck tacos and
1:02:52and truffle oolie and mango iced tea and
1:02:54go i've been reading up about this right
1:02:58that's funny
1:02:59getting out of prison and the
1:03:01of society was a very long process
1:03:04and anybody who thinks it's not is a
1:03:07fool
1:03:08you know if you think about if you've
1:03:10been locked up for 30 years
1:03:12what has taken place in 30 years you
1:03:15know i've always asked my students about
1:03:16this i go think about everything
1:03:18technologically wise
1:03:21food wise culturally culturally what's
1:03:24in your lifetime
1:03:26now imagine putting somebody in a cage
1:03:28and keeping them away from all that okay
1:03:31i remember like you know i went from a
1:03:33flip flown to a blackberry
1:03:35and i remember speaking at professor
1:03:37saul class in his class
1:03:39and he saw that i had a blackberry and
1:03:41he had a flip phone he goes wait a
1:03:42minute he goes why is marty more
1:03:44technologically advanced and he's only
1:03:46been out a few weeks he goes a nice
1:03:47level flip phone it made him get it it
1:03:49made him get a blackberry right
1:03:51i knew that unless i forced myself to
1:03:55get acclimated and forced myself to
1:03:56learn things i'd be that goldfish
1:03:59swimming in the sea of sharks for a very
1:04:01long time
1:04:03because i was isolated my
1:04:05maturation period from
1:04:07you think that i just turned 17 till 37
1:04:11my life wasn't normal you know i went
1:04:13from waking up to health being in prison
1:04:16to
1:04:17fighting for my life every step of the
1:04:19way
1:04:21and most people can't fathom what that's
1:04:23like most people
1:04:25think you know you get a lot of physical
1:04:27altercation in prison no worked out a
1:04:29lot um also being in the law library
1:04:32kept you away from a lot of people yeah
1:04:33well kept me away from a lot of people
1:04:35but it also kept me friendly with a lot
1:04:36of people because they needed you me
1:04:39right you know
1:04:41were you uh were you bartering uh
1:04:43good for live i did i did
1:04:46i could say i could say now without
1:04:48reservation
1:04:49without any hesitation
1:04:51but i always say that i was fair with
1:04:54everyone okay and you will never find a
1:04:56person who said i robbed them or i did
1:04:58them dirty there you go it won't happen
1:05:01okay um i was always used to tell people
1:05:03listen you know i remember working one
1:05:05guy's case where i was like listen you
1:05:07got like one percent chance of success i
1:05:10said but i think i found a loophole
1:05:12okay he's like just try it and i won and
1:05:14he came back and he gave me even more
1:05:16because he's like listen you you were
1:05:17honest with me you're cool because other
1:05:19people lie to
1:05:21and i found working in the law library
1:05:23that's what it gave me gave me an
1:05:24opportunity to
1:05:25help other people but it also gave me
1:05:27the opportunity to work on my case as
1:05:28much as possible when you look back in
1:05:30your life now do you kind of feel
1:05:32that there is some type of reason this
1:05:35all happened
1:05:36i'm smiling because i was just asked
1:05:38that exact question about two weeks ago
1:05:42i say to them you know waking up every
1:05:43day in prison hell no
1:05:46not in a million years
1:05:48but after i became a lawyer
1:05:51after i worked my walk my first exonery
1:05:53out of prison
1:05:55i was starting to believe that
1:05:57the hell i went through if the purpose
1:05:59is to make a difference in the system
1:06:03make a change
1:06:05then
1:06:06what i went through there was a purpose
1:06:09if i can help save other people's lives
1:06:12either by making sure that they don't go
1:06:14to prison
1:06:16by exonerating them
1:06:18great
1:06:19because it is very rewarding what i do i
1:06:22love what i do now
1:06:24i love when the innocence project calls
1:06:26me the last minute says listen marty we
1:06:28need you to testify in oregon or ohio
1:06:31about this legislation can you do it
1:06:33okay no problem and i've done that twice
1:06:36in the last few months and legislation
1:06:38passed in both states nice you know to
1:06:40me
1:06:41having the opportunity to make a a long
1:06:44lasting difference
1:06:45being part of legislation that's going
1:06:47to be on the books
1:06:49for decades to come and to know that i
1:06:51testify and i was part of it that's
1:06:53rewarding to be able to inspire some of
1:06:56my students to go on and work at the
1:06:58innocence project which two of them are
1:07:00now working at to help other exonerees
1:07:03that's rewarding so cool
1:07:05you know i hear you talk about like the
1:07:06death of your parents you kind of like
1:07:07breezed by did you ever
1:07:10process it you go to therapy did you
1:07:12feel like you had any type of like
1:07:15mourning or deal with it so in prison no
1:07:19i mean you know in prison they have
1:07:21therapists but like didn't really trust
1:07:23anybody
1:07:24and the morning and the therapy didn't
1:07:26really have until i got out of prison
1:07:28because when i was being forced to kind
1:07:32of address the murder charges
1:07:34uh one of my family said it's not a time
1:07:36to get emotional it's time to get smart
1:07:37because your life is on the line
1:07:39and that's really kind of what i had to
1:07:40live by it's what i focused on i i
1:07:43couldn't
1:07:44grieve
1:07:45until i had my life back
1:07:47and that didn't happen until i was free
1:07:49wow um and for me it's not over because
1:07:52the guilty parties are still out there
1:07:55even though a lot of them are deceased
1:07:57and for me
1:07:58i want the district attorney of suffolk
1:08:00county to reopen my case which i know
1:08:02people think you're crazy marty it's
1:08:04over with but i don't think so i think
1:08:06it's fair i think it's just
1:08:08i mean the new da out there has made it
1:08:12a policy and motto that he has no
1:08:14allegiance to the prior regime
1:08:17we know the prior regime was corrupt
1:08:20and dirty we've proven that
1:08:23i hope that tim cindy will one day
1:08:26with given the right information that
1:08:27we've developed since i've gotten out
1:08:29because we've developed a whole wealth
1:08:31of information
1:08:32and evidence and witnesses
1:08:34that they'll reopen my case and if
1:08:36anybody's able to be charged be charged
1:08:39but at least issue a public report of
1:08:42their findings
1:08:43because i think that's important i think
1:08:44it's important to
1:08:46reinform and re-educate people that i
1:08:49didn't get out on a technicality i
1:08:51didn't get out on some loophole
1:08:53that i was exonerated because i'm
1:08:55innocent
1:08:56and that there's still a wealth of
1:08:57information out there that people have
1:08:59never seen they've never read about
1:09:01that will make people understand what
1:09:03happened to me because what happened to
1:09:05me wasn't an accident
1:09:07and i don't like calling it a wrongful
1:09:09conviction i think it's an intentional
1:09:11conviction yeah it's different
1:09:13it's not like oh well we didn't get this
1:09:16evidence or whatever it was a
1:09:18malicious with intent to disclose and uh
1:09:22push away evidence that would prove you
1:09:23innocent with motive in many wrongful
1:09:26conviction cases and probably bribing
1:09:28them sure is like what
1:09:30takes place you know this is gonna say
1:09:32in many wrongful conviction cases they
1:09:33shouldn't be called wrongful yeah they
1:09:35should be called intentional
1:09:37because wrongful indicates that a
1:09:39mistake was made yeah error is like a
1:09:41clerical error but if you look at a lot
1:09:43of the exonerees it wasn't it wasn't
1:09:46accidental it was they withheld evidence
1:09:49they was trying to destroy evidence
1:09:52trying to destroy evidence
1:09:54they had forensic lab people who faked
1:09:56test results
1:09:58you had people who were hiding witnesses
1:10:00away and bribing them
1:10:02just one thing after another that's not
1:10:05wrongful conduct that's intentional
1:10:07conduct yeah you know in my case
1:10:10during the civil rights proceedings
1:10:13we found out that at the time of my
1:10:15trial even before
1:10:17the medical examiner told the da's
1:10:20office that the murder weapon that they
1:10:21said was a murder weapon
1:10:23was not the murder weapon couldn't have
1:10:24been the murder weapon they never shared
1:10:26that with us that's crazy it took us 25
1:10:29years in a civil rights lawsuit to get
1:10:30that out
1:10:32and that's the other sad thing is in so
1:10:33many of these cases
1:10:35we don't learn things until years later
1:10:38and sometimes it's required after a
1:10:39lawsuit
1:10:40which is which shouldn't happen of
1:10:42course well i appreciate you coming out
1:10:44man it's been a real pleasure to have
1:10:47you on the show it's it's an honor i
1:10:49mean and i hope your listeners you know
1:10:52your listeners can get involved they can
1:10:54do things you know my class at
1:10:56georgetown there's a website called
1:10:58making exoneree.com
1:11:00our first year which was filmed entirely
1:11:04was made into a documentary so if they
1:11:07go to
1:11:09makingexonerythefilm.com they can hear
1:11:11about it it's been winning some awards
1:11:14um we're nominated for a lot of things
1:11:16it's not publicly available yet
1:11:18but it's screening and i think when
1:11:20people see it they're gonna understand
1:11:22the power of humanity and they're gonna
1:11:25understand that you know
1:11:26undergraduate students can overcome
1:11:29obstacles
1:11:30even what they go through as students
1:11:32because they were
1:11:34challenged they were told oh you'll
1:11:35never succeed
1:11:37you're only an undergraduate
1:11:39you know we may not be able to succeed
1:11:41in every case
1:11:43but i think you know there's that old
1:11:45saying about you know if you can save
1:11:47one life you save all humanity in the
1:11:49talmud
1:11:50i really believe in that that you know
1:11:52and because i think if we save one life
1:11:54it's really is more than one life
1:11:56because that one person we saved will go
1:11:59on and try to help save somebody else or
1:12:01he'll direct them back to us
1:12:03uh close out with the story i listen to
1:12:06a lot of speakers in this one speaker
1:12:07who says um
1:12:09you know there was a bunch of fish that
1:12:11would like get uh pushed up to to shore
1:12:14and there was this old man who would be
1:12:16walking and he'd grab a fish and he'd
1:12:17throw it back into the sea and he'd grab
1:12:19a fish and throw it back in the sea just
1:12:20walk up and down the shore doing that
1:12:22and this young kid was like what are you
1:12:23doing old man that you know that one
1:12:25fish doesn't make a difference and he
1:12:27grabbed the fish and he said if this was
1:12:29your ass it would make all the
1:12:30difference in the world
1:12:32that sounds very similar to this
1:12:34when we're done i'm going to play you
1:12:35the story it almost sounds like like a
1:12:38somewhat version of it all right cool
1:12:40well i appreciate you man thank you so
1:12:41much marty thank you and hopefully your
1:12:43listeners if they have any follow-up
1:12:45questions yeah they can reach out to you
1:12:47on instagram i'm on
1:12:50my social media is exonerated
1:12:52x-o-n-e-r-8-e-d
1:12:54it's also the license plate of one of my
1:12:56cars there you go uh but i'm on
1:12:58instagram twitter facebook
1:13:00linkedin
1:13:02you know and i love doing this i love
1:13:04educating people because really this is
1:13:06about educating people
1:13:08um and the way we make a difference is
1:13:10educating people which really becomes
1:13:12empowering people
1:13:14appreciate you thank you
1:13:18thank you for listening this has been
1:13:19part two of our two-part special episode
1:13:21with marty tanclip we look forward to
1:13:23connecting with you again next week for
1:13:25a new episode of hell as an exit see you
1:13:27guys next week
1:13:33this show is not affiliated with any
1:13:35specific 12-step program if you or a
1:13:37loved one is struggling with an
1:13:38addiction please find a local 12-step
1:13:40meeting
1:13:41if you believe you may need detox or
1:13:43drug treatment of any kind please call
1:13:46888-699-9395
1:13:51to speak to a specialist the show is
1:13:53sponsored by united recovery project a
1:13:55state-of-the-art drug and alcohol rehab
1:13:57facility you can visit our website at
1:14:00unitedrecoveryproject.com
1:14:04[Music]
1:14:15you

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