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54 :: Jaycee Dugard Part 2 :: Surviving In Captivity for 18 Years — Transcript

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0:05[Music]
0:08thank you for tuning in to the voice of
0:10the victim podcast we discuss a lot of
0:13sad and potentially triggering things on
0:15the show we try to be as sensitive and
0:18cautious as possible but if you are
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0:25before listening to our show there are
0:33over 700,000 sexual offenders in the
0:36United States alone with all the social
0:38media these days how can we protect
0:40ourselves and our children from these
0:42despicable predators welcome to the
0:45voice of the victim podcast where we
0:47discuss criminal cases that involve some
0:49factor of abuse our goal is to spread
0:52awareness of abuse that could be taking
0:54place around any of us and encourage
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1:00being abused
1:03Jaycee Lee Dugard went missing after
1:06being abducted on her way to the bus
1:09stop right in front of her family's home
1:11for 18 years her family along with law
1:15enforcement searched for her with no
1:18results the community came together and
1:21did everything they could to help find
1:22this girl who was only 11 years old when
1:25she disappeared they knew she had been
1:27abducted because her stepfather Karl had
1:30seen the whole thing but 18 years passed
1:33and there was still no sign of JC but
1:37then a strange man walked into a law
1:40enforcement office with two little girls
1:42the demeanor of these little girls rub
1:45some people the wrong way
1:46Alley Jacobs and Lisa Campbell were two
1:50police officers that made an effort to
1:52look into this and that got the ball
1:54rolling on an investigation that would
1:56finally lead to the rescue of Jaycee Lee
1:58Dugard welcome to the voice of the
2:04victim podcast I'm Rosie and I'm Ryan
2:07how are you doing tonight
2:09I'm good I had a strenuous day but I'm
2:13good I'm glad that you're home now
2:17thanks Rosie had to her job has gotten a
2:20little harder lately yeah they got a
2:23puppy which I've never had and now I
2:27never will
2:29lots of poop in the wrong places lots of
2:33poop lots of peas lots of nipping and
2:35biting and chewing and dragging and
2:38dragging and yeah just not for me
2:42I'm really content with my cats do you
2:45want a glass of wine before we start
2:47okay okay how are you Ryan
2:50all right well I woke up in the middle
2:52of a dream and you know how it is when
2:56you wake up and a jolt my alarm clock
2:58went off mm-hmm like right in the middle
3:01of a dream and so I was jolted awake and
3:04I've been kind of off all day but we're
3:07gonna get through this because we care
3:09about you guys on the show and we really
3:11appreciate all of you that listen and we
3:14really appreciate all of our patrons
3:16that have stuck with us month after
3:19month and keep supporting us you guys
3:21are amazing and oh speaking of which
3:24Shannon will you check your patreon
3:26messages thanks to all of our patrons if
3:30you haven't received something in the
3:33mail from us yet let us know unless you
3:35didn't want it but let us know if you're
3:39still waiting on that sometimes stuff
3:40gets lost we're just trying to make sure
3:44everything's organized and that we're
3:46doing our jobs right we're also starting
3:48to wait a month or two before we send
3:50out stuff because we've had having a
3:52slight problem with people dipping out
3:55really quick after they sign up
3:57and we've been losing some money yeah
4:00sending out stuff before we get we've
4:03covered the cost so anyway we're gonna
4:06jump back into Jaycee Lee Dugard story
4:10this week we're gonna be talking about
4:12her point of view on the whole story and
4:15what she experienced which is what we
4:18should be talking about anyway yeah well
4:20last week we kind of discussed the
4:21experience of her family not knowing
4:24what was happening in law enforcement
4:26process and then the past of the man who
4:31was responsible for all this so if you
4:33haven't heard part one definitely go
4:35back and listen to that first but
4:37without any more rambling Rosie let's
4:41jump into it all right
4:42the morning of the abduction JC walked
4:45out the door of the family's home her
4:48stepdad Carl was in the garage and she
4:50yelled to him she was about to walk up
4:52the hill on the way to her bus stop she
4:55crossed at the spot where Carl had told
4:57her to so uncoming oncoming traffic
5:00could see her better
5:01as she walked in the gravelly shoulder
5:03of the road she began to daydream about
5:05the summer vacation that was coming soon
5:08it was almost the last week of school
5:10yeah and her school actually had a water
5:14park field trip planned that last week
5:17and at this time she was really nervous
5:20about it because she was a super
5:21self-conscious girl especially about her
5:24body and she was hoping to talk to her
5:27mom about shaving her legs and armpits
5:29cuz she was embarrassed about her new
5:33hair but she was even too nervous to
5:36bring it up to her mom she actually went
5:38into her mom's bedroom to talk about it
5:40but couldn't work up the nerve to bring
5:42it up so this really shows how
5:45self-conscious of an eleven-year-old she
5:47really was yeah that's kind of sweet and
5:51I forgot about not shaving as JC walked
5:57toward the bus stop she heard a car
5:59coming up behind her mm-hmm and this was
6:03strange because they weren't typically
6:05cars going by on that street at the time
6:07she walked to the bus
6:09jaesi looked back at the car expecting
6:11it to pass but it actually pulled up
6:14beside her
6:15the driver rolled down the window and JC
6:17stopped walking he leaned out of the
6:20window to ask her for directions no
6:23stranger danger
6:24JC noticed his hand shoot out of the
6:27window the little black device in it
6:29suddenly she heard a crackling sound and
6:32fell backwards yeah he tased her she
6:36fell to the ground and tried to scoot
6:38into the bushes behind her but she was
6:41losing control of her body the man got
6:43out of the car and walked towards JC she
6:46kept trying to scoot away but her entire
6:48body was becoming paralyzed she grabbed
6:51at the ground trying to find something
6:53to hold on to but all she could grab was
6:56a pine cone the man tried to drag her
6:59out of the bushes but it wasn't working
7:01too well so he chased her again and at
7:03this point she's wondering why her body
7:06wasn't working she was trying to get
7:08away but she couldn't and she even peed
7:11her pants but at the time she didn't
7:13really care because she just wanted to
7:15get away from this man
7:17the man picked her up and shoved her
7:19into the back seat of his car and down
7:21to the floorboards
7:23he threw a blanket on top of her and
7:25piled stuff on top of it to weigh her
7:27down then he started driving so at this
7:30point she's feeling scared and helpless
7:33and I mean she was super hot underneath
7:36the blankets but she couldn't move
7:38between the heat and the movement of the
7:41car she really started to feel sick and
7:43dizzy I can't imagine the feeling of
7:49stuff on top of me and it being dark
7:51that would have freaked me out oh yeah
7:53your class of phobia and yeah I mean I
7:57get so carsick even when I'm in control
7:59of the situation so this had to be such
8:03a nightmare having no idea who the heck
8:05you're with or where they're taking you
8:07and having no way to get out from under
8:09this hot blanket mm-hmm JC began to feel
8:13like she needed to throw up but she
8:15fought it out of fear and she choked on
8:17her own vomit
8:20remember she's in a really uncomfortable
8:22position here and if she did throw up it
8:26would just get all over her and yeah
8:30might even choke on it all she could
8:33think about was getting this hot blanket
8:35off eventually her body couldn't take it
8:38anymore and she lost consciousness
8:40eventually the car stopped and she came
8:43to she heard a man and a woman talking
8:45and the weight was taken off of her then
8:48they pulled the blanket off of her face
8:50and they offered her a drink the man
8:52told her he'd gotten an extra straw for
8:55her so she didn't need to worry about
8:56germs yeah and considering the things he
8:59would end up doing this seems like a
9:01really strange time to be considerate
9:04that's so weird as she sipped the drink
9:08the man started laughing and said he
9:10couldn't believe he'd gotten away with
9:12it so obviously if you listen the last
9:16week this man's name is Phillip Garrido
9:19Phillip grabbed JC in the back seat of
9:22the car and told her he had two big
9:25aggressive dogs and if she wasn't quiet
9:27they would hurt her he covered her head
9:30with a blanket and let her into his
9:32house once they were inside
9:34he took the blanket off her head and
9:36told her to sit on a wicker sofa which
9:39sounds really uncomfortable but this is
9:42when she finally got a good look at
9:44Phillip he was a tall tan man with blue
9:49eyes brown thinning hair it's
9:52interesting what her thoughts were at
9:54this point about him that he just looked
9:56like a normal guy you'd see every day
9:58didn't look like a bad guy that you
10:00should be suspicious of and that's the
10:03scary thing as these monsters are just
10:05normal-looking people after this he
10:09shows her his stun gun and warns her
10:11that if she tries to get away he'd be
10:13using it on her he had her follow him
10:15and at this point she's realizing that
10:18she has no choice but to comply with him
10:20yeah she had no idea where she was at
10:23this point even though she had her
10:25issues with her stepdad Carl's criticism
10:28she was wishing she could hear it
10:30she was craving anything familiar
10:32anything she'd get from being at home he
10:36took her to the bathroom and locked the
10:38door behind the two of them the shower
10:40was already running and he told JC to
10:43take off her clothes now remember how we
10:45talked about how self-conscious she was
10:47being told to disrobe by the strange man
10:51had to be completely mortifying for on
10:54top of all the other stress she was
10:57afraid just to be in a swimsuit in front
10:59of her peers but this this is a billion
11:02times worse yeah it would be mortifying
11:05to like an adult yeah let alone a child
11:10no kidding
11:11she refused to take her clothes off JC
11:14was shaking and too scared to do
11:16anything so he grabbed her pants and
11:19pulled them down then took off her shirt
11:21so she was standing in front of this
11:24strange evil man that just kidnapped her
11:27and she's completely exposed and
11:29vulnerable he took all of her clothes
11:32shoes backpack and stuffed it in a bag
11:35to get rid of the evidence then to make
11:39things even worse he took off his own
11:41clothes
11:42JC looked away because she knew it was
11:44wrong he asked her if she'd ever seen a
11:47naked man before which she hadn't then
11:50he told her to look at him she glanced
11:53quickly at him yeah she actually smirked
11:56when she saw him and wanted to start
11:59laughing because apparently she thought
12:02his parts were pretty funny looking is
12:05that what she said in the book yeah
12:07that's very funny but then he asked her
12:11to touch it and then told her to make it
12:14grow yeah yeah she's 11 years old she
12:17has no idea what this even means she was
12:20a very sheltered child so she didn't I
12:23mean I guess some 11-year olds would
12:26know what this means but she didn't and
12:28she tries to comply and she touches him
12:32and in her books she described it as
12:35small I mean it is fun to make fun of
12:39monsters like this when when you yeah
12:42you get
12:43a trump card to do whatever you want to
12:45say great uh eventually he said that
12:51that was enough and told her to get into
12:52the shower she didn't want to and she
12:55tried to fight it but he pushed her in
12:57and got in with her he asked her if
12:59she'd ever shaved her underarms and
13:01vagina before and she hadn't cuz she's
13:0411 yeah and remember in the beginning
13:07she wanted to but was too nervous to
13:11even talk to her mom about it so it's so
13:14sad that this is the way it end up ended
13:16up happening for this poor little girl
13:18uh Phillips shaved him shaved her
13:21himself which had to be just that's so
13:24gross I can't even imagine what that
13:26would be like for our little kid
13:28yeah he's the worst experience and it
13:31it's a terrifying thing to her like a
13:34razor there and it's not you shaving
13:37yeah just when she's not even in control
13:41that's really gross he finished shaving
13:45her and said that she could get out of
13:46the shower tears were streaming down her
13:49cheeks even though she was too scared to
13:51actually start visibly crying in front
13:54of him she felt like she was trapped in
13:56a nightmare finally the man handed her a
13:59towel so she could cover herself up the
14:02silent tears turned into giant sobs yeah
14:06imagine the amount of stress and trauma
14:08she was feeling at this point not only
14:11was he physically abusing her but he had
14:13stolen her from her family and from her
14:15life Philip actually took her in his
14:18arms to offer comfort she obviously
14:21didn't want to take comfort from this
14:23monster but there was no one else there
14:25no one else could comfort her so she
14:28reluctantly leaned into him and sobbed
14:30uncontrollably as she described it like
14:33a rabbit being comforted by a lion wow
14:36that's a really good metaphor I like
14:40that
14:40after she calmed down he told her he was
14:43going to take her somewhere but she had
14:46to be very quiet or she'd get into big
14:48trouble she asked if she could put her
14:51clothes back on he just laughed at her
14:53and told her no what a freaking jerk no
14:56he's
14:57give her some dignity JC started asking
15:01him when she can go home and he told her
15:03he didn't know but he'd work on it as
15:05they walked JC told him her family
15:08didn't have much money but they'd be
15:10willing to pay a ransom for her yes she
15:13was so desperate to get away from this
15:15guy as soon as she could she had no idea
15:18all the years of abuse that layed in
15:20front of her but it just really
15:22heartwarming to know at least she was
15:24confident in her mother's love for her
15:28comforted enough that she was sure they
15:30would pay a ransom for I mean I think
15:33it's special when you're positive that
15:36your parents love you enough to make
15:37that kind of sacrifice for you you know
15:39mm-hmm
15:40Philip led JC down the stairs of the
15:43porch and put the blanket over her head
15:45as they went outside all she was wearing
15:48was the towel in the blanket as they
15:50walked outside she heard a train and
15:52made a mental note of it so when she got
15:54away she could say that she was held at
15:57a place near train tracks they walked
15:59through a couple of doors and he finally
16:01took the blanket off her head they were
16:03in a small room with blankets scattered
16:05all over the floor at this point JC's
16:08entire body was shaking uncontrollably
16:11Phil said he'd be back later and he
16:14minds her that the dogs would get her if
16:15she tried to escape then he put fuzzy
16:19handcuffs on her with her hands behind
16:21her back and lays her down on her side
16:24yes girls gross gross just take a second
16:29to imagine being stuck in that position
16:31and having no idea how long you'll have
16:33to be laying like that like just laying
16:37on your side with your hands behind your
16:38back not cuffed up would hurt mm-hmm
16:42yeah it's like one of the most
16:44uncomfortable ways to lay yes he left
16:48her laying there and locked the door
16:50behind him she started crying again and
16:53she was completely exhausted so she
16:56cried herself to sleep so this is just
16:59day one she'd gotten up that morning in
17:02her own bed planning and going to school
17:04just like any other day
17:06but then all of this happened and now
17:10she's handcuffed laying on the floor of
17:12a shed having no idea where she actually
17:14is not to mention that he completely
17:17violated her touching her and making her
17:19touch him and it's just day one it's a
17:23nightmare
17:24the next day JC was worrying about all
17:27the things that she was supposed to do
17:28the day that she was taken all the
17:31people she felt like she was letting
17:32down by not being around
17:34yes we'd have her to be thinking about
17:36how her abduction was affecting other
17:38people the room she was in was tiny her
17:43own bed back at home wouldn't have even
17:45fit in the room yeah so that gives some
17:48perspective just a smile yeah if you've
17:51seen the movie room even that room was
17:55probably bigger than the one JC was
17:56dumped into the windows in the room were
17:59covered with towels so there was no
18:01light coming in and the room was getting
18:04really hot yeah she was sweating a lot
18:07and also super thirsty because she
18:09didn't have access to drinking water
18:10whenever she needed it anymore
18:12this part would do me in I don't think I
18:15could go one waking hour without water
18:18he's not even exaggerating and she has
18:22no idea at this point when she she will
18:25get water philip finally came in later
18:28that day to give her fast food and a
18:31soda while he was in there he'd take off
18:34the handcuffs so she could eat he also
18:36brought a bucket in with him he told her
18:39to use it if she had to relieve herself
18:41when he leave he'd put the cuffs back on
18:44her and said but he was trying to break
18:47her she'd actually looked forward to him
18:50coming in after this because it meant
18:52she'd get her cuffs off yuck that house
18:56she was supposed to use the bathroom
18:58with the bucket with his cuffs on I mean
19:00yeah I think he made her do it while he
19:03was in there Oh
19:04take the cuffs off I'm not in it I
19:07thought it was like later but that makes
19:10more sense
19:11he would try to make her laugh by doing
19:14silly accents gag that's so upsetting he
19:19was manipulating her feelings to make
19:21her more compliant and she had no choice
19:24but to give in yeah I mean she was
19:27dependent on him for food water and her
19:30toilet he was the only human contact she
19:33had and her only source of amusement we
19:36just imagine how boring it would be to
19:38sit in a tiny room all day handcuffed
19:40just saying it it doesn't sound as bad
19:43as it is but just try to sit for one
19:46hour and not do anything it's really
19:48tough I don't think I could sit for an
19:52hour done no you couldn't about a week
19:56into her captivity is when things really
19:58took a dark turn for jay-z that day she
20:01heard his footsteps approaching the room
20:03then the lock rattle on her door and she
20:06knew that he was coming in to feed her
20:07up to this point he had just been
20:10treating her like his little pet but of
20:13course he had a bigger reason than that
20:16to be holding her captive he walked in
20:19holding a milkshake he crouches down but
20:22before handing her the milkshake he
20:24tells her that today is going to be a
20:26little different he tells her she can
20:29have the milkshake and something to eat
20:31after they are done and I'm thinking why
20:35would you bring the milkshake in at this
20:38point instead of the food like if you
20:41wait too long the milkshakes gonna melt
20:43and get all gross I don't think he was
20:46thinking about that yeah I guess that's
20:49not really an issue at this point in the
20:50story but I'm just trying to lighten
20:53things up by insulting his intelligence
20:55before we get into some really dark
20:57stuff
20:58which reminds me listener discretion is
21:01advised for this next part it's about to
21:04get really disturbing so know you've
21:07been warned and if you don't want to
21:09hear about sexual child abuse you skip
21:14ahead like a minute Philip put the
21:17milkshake down on the shelf then he bent
21:19down to tell JC to take off her towel
21:22and lay back down on the pallet that she
21:24was using as a bed
21:25yes she's still only allowed to wear a
21:27towel at this point no clothes
21:30Phillip removed the cuffs from one of
21:33her wrists and we locked them with her
21:34hands in front so she could lay back
21:36this was probably her first time laying
21:39on her back for a whole week it's
21:41probably the most comfortable she'd been
21:43and she most likely just wanted to relax
21:46and fall asleep in an actually
21:48comfortable position but sadly it got
21:52much worse
21:53Phillips sat down on the pallet next to
21:55her and explained his plan then he stood
21:58up and started to take off all of his
22:00clothes and JC started panicking and
22:04flipping out
22:04after hearing what his plan was at this
22:07point her idea of sex was Barbie and Ken
22:11laying next to each other she was only
22:1411 and that's what she thought sex was
22:16JC started crying as he took her
22:19handcuffed hands and held them over her
22:21head then he laid on top of her he was a
22:25tall man and really heavy so it's
22:28already uncomfortable for her he told
22:31her it would go quicker if she didn't
22:32struggle otherwise he wasn't afraid to
22:35get rough with her then he forced her
22:37legs apart and forced himself inside of
22:40her that's she's 11 like this is so
22:45messed up so terrible again she had no
22:50idea what sex was she didn't know what
22:52to expect then suddenly she has this
22:55nasty sweaty gross man on top of her
22:58raping her she felt like she was being
23:01torn apart by him and it hurt obviously
23:04a lot for her yeah like like you said
23:08she's 11 obviously not ready to be
23:11experiencing this kind of physical
23:13trauma she tried to scoot away and she
23:16tried to close her legs but he was a lot
23:18stronger than her and easily overpowered
23:21her struggling he finally finished and
23:25got off of her he asked if she was okay
23:27in her mind she is screaming no I'm not
23:31okay get off of me he told her next time
23:34would be easier if she didn't fight it
23:37then JC No
23:38she was bleeding he told her that it was
23:41normal and went to get her a washcloth
23:43and a bucket of water oh my god this man
23:46is literal scum yeah and as we go on his
23:53attitude is disgusting too
23:55he just thinks he's always in the right
23:58and he did nothing wrong and no one else
24:01should know about this he's just that
24:03he's a total punchable person person so
24:12now you just imagine the dread she was
24:15feeling knowing that this is what he had
24:19in store for her this is what her life
24:22in the visible future was gonna be like
24:25until she could find a way out and also
24:29throughout her time in captivity the
24:31bucket of water was all he would give
24:33her to clean up she never really got
24:35real showers just a nasty bucket of
24:38water after this horrific event she
24:41completely lost her appetite and didn't
24:43even touch the milkshake it was bringing
24:46a lot of ants into the room which were
24:48crawling all over JC Oh gross it was
24:52making her uncomfortable and they were
24:53even getting into her mouth yuck that's
24:57so Nikki yeah she said they're really
25:01spicy and nasty
25:05I wouldn't eat that milkshake either no
25:08huh I mean that it was such a rude
25:11awakening such an unexpected thing for
25:14and I can I mean you know that sinking
25:18feeling you get when like something
25:22really bad happens the last thing I
25:24would want would be a milkshake yeah I
25:26think I don't want a breath mint uh you
25:30know or a shower yeah a real shower yeah
25:35as the time went by there were more big
25:38events she got a cat not long after this
25:41who she named Tigger
25:42because Tigger was from Winnie the Pooh
25:45and he was always happy and never sad
25:47that's so depressing to me and this was
25:50before the Tigger movie came out because
25:52Tigger was super sat in that movie it
25:54was yeah because he couldn't find his
25:57family
25:58I know thinking about that movie makes
26:04me sad right now I have some deep-seated
26:08connections to the plot anyway again I'm
26:12just trying to lighten things up during
26:14this dark terrible story
26:16sadly JC didn't have ticker for very
26:19long at some point Philip came in the
26:22room and said he couldn't stand the
26:23smell in the room because the cat was
26:25peeing in there sad as JC was to say
26:29goodbye to Tigger
26:30she knew the room was a terrible
26:32environment for a cat and that it should
26:34be able to run around and play but so
26:38innocent and sweet of her I know she
26:40feels pity for the cat in the situation
26:43even though she's a person locked in
26:46this tiny room
26:47it's a terrible environment for her to
26:49but she still had room for empathy for
26:53the cat you know she's all like you
26:55Rosie she had mentioned in her book that
26:57she loved animals more than she loved
26:59people it's true I always love you
27:05unconditionally they're so sweet thank
27:07you I do love animals more than I love
27:10people another day Philip entered the
27:15little room with a flashlight
27:17JC knew he was there but
27:19she pretended to be asleep because she
27:21was so sick of what he'd do to her but
27:24he shook her shoulder and she had no
27:25choice but to get up he said that they
27:28were going to move next door telling her
27:31to be really quiet
27:32he put the blanket over her head again
27:34so she couldn't see and they went out
27:36the door about ten steps from that door
27:39they entered another room
27:40this one was bigger and had
27:42air-conditioning the windows had bars
27:45which he covered with towels he locked
27:48the doors and turned on the lights so JC
27:51is wondering what's gonna happen here
27:53this was the first of many runs he would
27:56do where he gets super high smoking meth
27:59and then sexually abused JC for days on
28:02end yeah this is kind of a callback to
28:05what he did the Katy Calloway what we
28:08talked about last week is just you know
28:11a bunch he'd do a bunch of drugs and
28:13then he'd abuse I mean that's what he
28:16did to her is abuse her for hours and so
28:20now he's got this person and he's
28:23holding captive that he can do it to
28:25whenever he wants but he was so
28:27narcissistic about everything he truly
28:30thought he was so special and he told
28:33her that he really amazes himself by how
28:36much crank he could take at a time crank
28:40cocaine actually no it's meth I've never
28:43heard of that before
28:44not that I really know what the
28:46difference is but he said it didn't
28:48affect him as much as a normal person
28:50and it's like who cares you know like
28:53why would she care about that and it
28:56makes sense cuz he was diagnosed with a
28:59DD and adderall is basically
29:01pharmaceutical meth so anybody with a DD
29:04would probably have the same tolerance
29:06as him but he thinks he's super special
29:09and just so narcissistic and it bugs the
29:12crap out of me during these runs he
29:15would make her dress and really
29:16provocative adult woman outfits then he
29:20would make her dance for him while he
29:21pleasured himself he would do all kinds
29:24of horrible things to her yuck
29:26yeah and he even played himself as the
29:29victim telling JC that he had a sex
29:32that he couldn't get rid of and he took
29:35JC to help him so he wouldn't bother
29:37anyone else with his quote-unquote
29:39problem and he told her that by giving
29:42her this or by giving him this outlet
29:45she was saving others oh my gosh
29:48mmm he's got such a backwards grasp on
29:52reality and just doesn't take any
29:54responsibility for anything it's like
29:57he's the one suffering and he's saving
30:01other girls by doing this to JC
30:03he's just saying that to make himself
30:06feel better about what he's doing yeah I
30:08don't know if he really believes that
30:09every time he would do something bad he
30:14would tell JC that the Angels made him
30:16do it
30:16what yeah that was one of his things is
30:20blaming the angels for influencing him
30:22like in a bad way okay apparently
30:25nothing was ever his own fault he also
30:28told JC that one day his music was going
30:31to make him super famous and rich and
30:33then they'd all be living a good life
30:37Wow quite the dream another funny thing
30:41that she mention in her book was that he
30:44said he didn't need a studio because he
30:50could do all the mixing and mastering
30:51himself hmm which you know that's
30:55possible but it probably made his music
30:58a lot worse later on the rape started
31:02getting more and more violent he would
31:05yell profanities at her while he raped
31:06her and push her face down into the
31:09couch he'd call her a [ __ ] and the
31:11c-word just degrading her for his own
31:14personal gain yeah but this whole time
31:17once he's done with his weird fantasies
31:19he'll pretend to be all nice and sweet
31:22and say that angels are making him do it
31:24he's so manipulative and hypocritical
31:27because like once he's done with this
31:29crap he's trying to make himself seem
31:32like a reasonable nice person and get
31:35her on his side why wouldn't he say that
31:37the demons were doing making him do it
31:39why did he cuz Keith saw himself is like
31:42a godly man with I mean
31:46super into the Bible at times and you'd
31:48think that if he was into the Bible then
31:50he would say the demons are making him
31:52do the bad thing well apparently he
31:53found stuff in the Bible that justified
31:55his actions right okay every time he
31:59would do it it would really hurt for JC
32:01one of the times he finished and asked
32:04her if she was okay and she just burst
32:06into tears and again he offered her that
32:09disgustingly fake comfort in reality
32:12he's just comforting himself trying to
32:15keep her quiet so he can keep doing
32:17these terrible fantasies and probably
32:19make himself feel better mm-hmm
32:22eventually she got her period and at
32:25first he just gave her paper towels to
32:27stuff in her pants which would not work
32:29no that is not a solution
32:32later on Philip tells JC he wants her to
32:35meet someone he introduces her to Nancy
32:38his wife he said that Nancy was a little
32:41jealous of JC but that she would come
32:44around if JC was good and made an effort
32:47if she made an effort to do what yeah
32:50this also blew JC's mind because she
32:54thought marriage mates were loyal to
32:56each other
32:57I mean every idea she had of marriage
32:59from before she was kidnapped was that
33:03you know lonely and she couldn't believe
33:05Nancy was okay with this but we remember
33:08Nancy helped him kidnap her true yeah
33:12that's insane on one of JC's birthdays
33:15Phil came in and said they had a
33:17surprise for her and had her closed her
33:20eyes when he told her to open them it
33:22was just Nancy sitting on the bed
33:24JC looked around awkwardly hoping to
33:27find a present
33:28but she couldn't find anything then Phil
33:31said look at Nancy's hair and Nancy
33:35yelled surprise
33:37Nancy's hair had new highlights with red
33:39streaks so this was their surprise for
33:42JC right well I had the heck with JC
33:45care about this it just really shows how
33:48self-centered and narcissistic both of
33:51these people are they think that some
33:53new hair color can be framed as a
33:55birthday surprise for JC I'm sure that
33:58was
33:58just stupid I don't know something that
34:02they just got off on for being mean that
34:04that doesn't make any sense it's
34:07ridiculous but when I was listening to
34:10the book I was relieved that it was the
34:13hair cuz at first I was like oh my god
34:15they're gonna make her give a three-way
34:17yeah the Cody posies story mm-hmm but
34:23still it doesn't make any of this any
34:25better
34:25one day Nancy came into JC's room and
34:29told her Phil went to live on an island
34:31with his rich friend for a month that's
34:33so random well she kind of spun that out
34:38of nowhere yeah later on JC found out he
34:41was serving time in jail for violating
34:43his parole why wouldn't she just make
34:46something a little bit more realistic up
34:48like he went to visit his mom yeah I
34:51don't think she was a hundred percent
34:54you know there there after coming home
34:59Philip told JC that he was reading the
35:02Bible now and God was helping him with
35:04his problem at this point the runs got
35:07shorter and he quit taking drugs for a
35:09while it seemed like he began to lose
35:12interest in JC at this point and he
35:14didn't even Reaper as much her typical
35:17day was really boring she would wake up
35:20watch The Today Show play Super Mario
35:22Brothers take a nap and hope it's
35:25dinnertime when she wakes up yeah she
35:27was so bored now she's just being held
35:30captive for pretty much no reason and I
35:34feel like some people be like oh I guess
35:36that's not so bad but think about it oh
35:38if you if you say that just go away
35:41you're like locked in a room you have
35:44nothing to do except for a wait for this
35:46monster to come and visit you then maybe
35:49rape you during any of his visits yeah
35:52and your life is being stolen from you
35:56she was 11 years old when she was
35:58kidnapped like from you know your teens
36:05to your early 20s that's like the most
36:08formative
36:10are not formative but like where you do
36:12all the stuff you want to do you know
36:14the fun stuff in life and this is
36:17completely stolen from her
36:21in 1994 JC became pregnant with her
36:25first daughter Philip talked to her and
36:27said that he'd noticed she'd been
36:29gaining weight and waddling instead of
36:31walking normally yeah so keep in mind at
36:34this point she was only 14 so she has no
36:37idea what the signs are but this was
36:41really a turning point for her um she
36:45felt such a connection to the baby
36:48inside her and it really made her feel a
36:50purpose to survive hmm there was an
36:53instance while she was pregnant when
36:55Philip got paranoid about a raid on his
36:58house he took JC and stuffed her on the
37:01floorboards of his car again which was
37:04super uncomfortable because she was
37:05pregnant they stayed at a little trailer
37:08for the night yeah and JC was super
37:11excited when they got there because it
37:13was the first time in a long time she
37:15was able to actually use a sink with
37:17running water and an actual flushing
37:20toilet it just shows how the little
37:22things in life we all take for granted
37:24we're so special to her at this point
37:27because she's been so neglected and
37:30everything all the comforts of life are
37:33being withheld from her right later
37:36Nancy brought home a cockatiel as she
37:38said she rescued it had super glue stuck
37:41to its beak and was missing feathers so
37:44it obviously had a rough life all just
37:47so bad are you getting emotional talking
37:50about the bird I'm actually just losing
37:52my voice oh I am as well
37:59jaesi got really close to the bird and
38:01patiently helps the bird go from super
38:03paranoid and me and to kind of sweet she
38:07felt really close to the bird and she
38:08named it Sarge
38:09yeah and it's because of the way it
38:12paced back and forth I'm a manager of an
38:15Army sergeant that's really sweet I know
38:18Nancy would often take Sarge outside for
38:21a couple hours a day to get fresh air as
38:24funny Nancy would do this for the
38:25animals but not for JC as winter
38:29approached the days got colder nancy
38:31wouldn't takes our sarge out as much but
38:34one day she thought it would be warm
38:36enough she had the bird outside for a
38:38while and forgot about it the bird was
38:41outside for a long time and JC was
38:43getting really worried but finally Nancy
38:46remembered and brought the bird back
38:48into JC's room you think the cats are
38:51getting excited because we're talking
38:52about a bird cuz they are freaking out
38:57maybe they hear birds outside there the
39:00cats are doing that thing right now
39:02where they're like chasing each other
39:03around and just like running way too
39:06fast they're doing their workout laps oh
39:09yeah that's the day I thought they did
39:12that at like 11:30 p.m. usually but they
39:15have two rounds no getting their
39:19exercise but anyway when Nancy brought
39:22Sarge back in he looked fine and he was
39:26whistling a lot so JC put a blanket over
39:30its cage and went to sleep the next
39:32morning when she woke up she didn't hear
39:35the usual tapping of Sarge's little feet
39:37in the cage terrified of what she'd find
39:40sure you moved the blanket and found the
39:42bird laying on the bottom of the cage
39:44dead yeah
39:46poor girl can't catch a break with her
39:48animals after all the patience she had
39:51to help get this bird over its trauma
39:54you know and form a relationship with it
39:57make it comfortable with her all sudden
40:00that's gone yeah that makes me really
40:02sad well JC eventually gave birth to her
40:09first daughter and within a couple of
40:11years she was
40:12again this time she realized it herself
40:15and when she told Philip about it he
40:18said that he was really happy and he
40:20knows it's going to be another girl
40:22because God knows what he needs
40:24gross what a disgusting thing to say
40:28like God is responsible for giving you
40:30another girl to abuse again he is
40:34blaming everyone but himself
40:36one day Philip came home with a computer
40:38and a printer
40:40he told JC he was going to start a
40:42printing company so they could all
40:44eventually work from home
40:45he started getting clients but he wasn't
40:48very good at cutting who's not good at
40:52cutting this guy okay
40:54JC told him she thought she could do it
40:57better and she did he took advantage of
41:00this and used JC for free labor JC did
41:04all the work for the printing company
41:05and fill up a Nancy both quit their jobs
41:08and lived off of JC's work uh-huh and
41:11they actually got to a point where they
41:14were so lazy
41:15they wouldn't even get out of the bed
41:17until afternoon and even though JC was
41:21busy at work making sure the printing
41:23company stayed afloat and raising their
41:26two daughters
41:27these people just moosh staff of her
41:29labor did she enjoy the work though well
41:33yeah it did give her something she was
41:35proud of but it it ate away at her and
41:38she got sick of doing all the work while
41:39they were lazy eventually once JC second
41:43daughter was born Philip told JC that
41:46Nancy was feeling left out from the
41:47family and that Nancy was going to start
41:50being called mom and JC would become the
41:53sister that's when JC's new name became
41:56Alissa within the household yeah but
41:59we're gonna keep calling her JC because
42:00that's her real name
42:02but I can't imagine like you're the mom
42:06and someone tells you you're gonna be
42:08the sister now yeah and it'd be the mom
42:10like what the heck did Nancy do yeah
42:13besides dye her hair the conditions of
42:16the house started to fall apart and the
42:18printing business started to dwindle
42:20there was a big puddle of water in the
42:23middle of the house and it turned out
42:24that their water pipes were rotting
42:26and the downstairs sink was always
42:28backed up with nasty water they made JC
42:31drain the backed up water with a siphon
42:34hose at least three times a day or it
42:36would overflow into the basement yeah I
42:38was this nasty thick black and gray
42:41water
42:42it was disgusting living conditions and
42:45it was just another thing they made JC
42:47do so I mean at first she was super
42:51bored but it got to a point where like
42:54she was overwhelmed because she had to
42:56do everything yeah two days before the
43:00rescue on August 24th 2009 Philip took
43:04JC's two daughters along with him to the
43:06FBI office in San Francisco he said
43:10having the girls with him made people
43:11more apt to listening to what he said
43:13yeah so like we talked about last week
43:16he was there to pitch his new church
43:19idea for his God's desire Church it's
43:22just it's even a weird name I know and
43:26he wanted to put together an event so
43:28that's why he was talking to that to the
43:33FBI office I guess but this is his next
43:38big business idea since the music thing
43:41didn't work out and the printing
43:43business was failing when Philip
43:45returned home he said he met two cops
43:48from Berkeley and they were very
43:50interested in what he presented he said
43:53they flipped which was a term he used a
43:56lot to describe people being excited
43:57about something oh I see like yeah they
44:01flipped like that such like a 70s guy
44:06term you know at this point
44:09Philips thought that this was it this
44:11was his big break he'd finally be able
44:14to move forward with his God's desire
44:16Church and quote unquote fight for God
44:20the next day Nancy ran into JC's room
44:24and told her that Phil had been arrested
44:26and she was freaking out JC stayed calm
44:29and suggested they looked through the
44:31yellow pages to find him a lawyer in a
44:33bail bondsman it's so interesting that
44:36JC was able to keep a level head while
44:39Nancy was flipping out but JC had been
44:42through such intense trauma her
44:44perspective was really different
44:46she was really resilient after all she'd
44:49been through and it's impressive that
44:51she knew like the right things to
44:53suggest I know you're in a bondsman like
44:56well I think maybe she had a lot of time
45:00to watch the Law & Order Judge Judy yeah
45:03a few hours later Philip walked into the
45:06house with his parole officer who
45:08uncuffed him and instructed him to meet
45:10back at the parole office the next
45:12morning Philip told the girls that they
45:15just needed to show up and clear things
45:16up so they can move on with their church
45:18plans yeah but as we know from last week
45:23things didn't go as smoothly for Phil as
45:26he was planning the next morning he had
45:28the whole family pile in the car and on
45:30the way to the parole office he told
45:33them that they'd get breakfast on the
45:34way home afterward so he was probably
45:37thinking that after this he'd be able to
45:39hide in plain sight because he will have
45:42gone into a law enforcement building
45:43with the girl he kidnapped and walk out
45:46and everything would be cleared up he's
45:49literally feeling super chill about the
45:51situation when they arrived philip was
45:53instantly separated from the girls and
45:56police began to question JC she told
45:59them that she was the girl's mother and
46:01she was fine with him staying with Phil
46:03even though she knew he was a sex
46:05offender yeah this was exactly what
46:07Philip had instructed her to say and she
46:10was using the name Alyssa still but for
46:13some reason when Philip talked to the
46:15police
46:15he told them that all three of them were
46:18his daughters yeah so this is a hole in
46:21the story because he told her
46:24JC to tell them that they were her
46:27daughters and that she gave him
46:30permission to be with them but then he
46:31said they were all his his daughters
46:34it's just a really stupid mistake to
46:37make yeah he'd like totally messed up
46:42his own yeah yeah he dug his own grave
46:43here and as we know from last week the
46:46two officers were really concerned about
46:49these two little girl
46:50being with this man and even more so
46:52after looking into the past offenses we
46:55talked about at the end of last week's
46:57episode finally after digging for hours
47:00Philip finally a minute that JC was the
47:02girl's mother and he had kidnapped her
47:05at age 11 with this new information
47:08they told JC that he'd confessed and
47:10asked her what her real name was yeah
47:12and she had been holding it in for so
47:15long she wasn't even able to say it out
47:17loud Wow she had to write it on a piece
47:20of paper she wrote
47:23Jaycee Lee Dugard so finally after 18
47:28years of torture she was free it's such
47:32a long time and I really want people to
47:35think about what a massive amount of
47:36time that is like I talked about last
47:38week that is the entire lifespan of a
47:43high school graduate it's like a quarter
47:46of most people's lifespan and you may
47:50have noticed we didn't talk much about
47:51her daughters but JC is really concerned
47:54about their privacy so we want to
47:56respect that and in case you were
47:58wondering why we weren't talking about
47:59them the thing JC wanted more than
48:01anything was to talk to her mom again
48:04she missed her so much and when she
48:07finally reached her mom it was a
48:09beautiful reunion she was so excited to
48:12hear from her missing daughter yeah so
48:16this is a very brief outline of JC's
48:20book a stolen life and we tried not to
48:22give too many details away because we
48:24really encourage you to go read it for
48:26yourself and support her but some of her
48:29reflections in the book really stood out
48:31to us and we just wanted to touch on
48:33those mm-hmm
48:34JC actually collects pine cones now
48:37because it was the last thing she
48:39touched before she was taken in her book
48:42she says no amount of preparation could
48:45have helped me understand why a human
48:47being would do what he did to me
48:50I still don't get it because of her
48:53captivity she still struggles with
48:55feelings of loneliness even when she's
48:57not alone people and animals help her
49:00feel better she really appreciates each
49:02and every day now
49:03but deep down she's still afraid it
49:05could be all taken away yeah at the time
49:09of her first rape - she didn't even know
49:11what sex was now she feels terrible for
49:15that little naive girl but recognizes
49:18that something inside that frightened
49:20little girl made her survivor she
49:23learned how to go away in her mind until
49:26he was finished with her and helped her
49:28survive because she was only 11 years
49:30old she only had 11 years worth of
49:33experience when this all happened to her
49:35but she still survived when she was
49:37first found she was adamant that she
49:39would not write a book she didn't want
49:41anybody to know what happened with the
49:44help of family and therapy she realized
49:46that she could write the book for her
49:48own benefit and that she didn't need to
49:50feel the need to protect Phillip Garrido
49:52anymore
49:53yeah in the introduction of the book um
49:56something that really stood out was the
49:59fact that Phillip never took
50:01responsibility for what he did to her
50:03Wow he believed he like he said he
50:08believed he was not responsible for his
50:10own actions and blamed everything on the
50:13angels and the voices in his head and
50:15believed that no one should find out
50:17what he did to an 11 year old girl and I
50:19think you highlighted that in your copy
50:23of the book but it's like
50:27ah he must have been schizophrenic or
50:30something you think I mean it's not my
50:33position to diagnose someone but I
50:36didn't really look into his medical
50:39diagnosis that much but if he's hearing
50:43voices are my guess is he's just making
50:47stuff up to get the responsibility half
50:49of himself right
50:51Phillip was responsible for stealing her
50:54life the life JC should have had with
50:57her family and her hope for writing this
50:59book was to help someone else going
51:01through similar difficult situations JC
51:05said that after 18 years of living with
51:07tremendous stress cruelty loneliness
51:10repetition and boredom each day now
51:13brings a new challenge in learning
51:14experience to look forward to yeah
51:17that's something we can all take from
51:19this is how much she really appreciates
51:22each new day now you know and it helps
51:26to hear these stories and put stuff in
51:28perspective but there were a few missed
51:32opportunities we want to discuss quickly
51:36first of all the police failed to make
51:39the connection that JC's kidnapping in
51:41South Lake Tahoe was related to the 1976
51:46kidnapping of Katherine Callaway even
51:49though it was in the exact same area
51:51yeah you think about it it's only 14
51:57years apart
51:58that's not a huge span of time you know
52:00mm-hmm
52:02I mean he should have been a suspect
52:05especially after being released only
52:07three years before this remembered he
52:10got release super early from prison he
52:13was sentenced to what was it 40 years
52:16and he only served 11 was that right
52:23was less than that we talked about it
52:25last week [ __ ] yeah well we're not like
52:29a lobbyist podcast so I think we can get
52:32away with not knowing but still it's
52:35ridiculous that he got out early and
52:38that JC was kidnapped only three years
52:41after he was he got his early release
52:46another missed opportunity happened when
52:48the police received a phone call on
52:50April 22nd 1992 reporting that the
52:54caller said JC inside a gas station
52:56staring intently at a missing-child
52:58poster of herself then the caller saw
53:01her leave in a large yellow van after
53:04JC's recovery they found an old yellow
53:07Dodge van on Garrido's property yeah so
53:10this seems like a good lead but the
53:12caller never gave a license-plate number
53:14and the people were gone before the
53:17police could get there but I guess we
53:20can learn that it's really important to
53:22get license plates when we're noticing
53:24suspicious activity because this could
53:26have saved JC much sooner interestingly
53:29though JC reported that she never left
53:32the ggarrido property just at before
53:34until just before her daughter was born
53:36in 1994 but maybe she just forgot to
53:40mention this yeah either way get license
53:44plates numbers it helps in June of 2002
53:48the fire department actually was called
53:50to the ggarrido house because of a
53:52juvenile that had injured her shoulder
53:54in the pool at the home but it was never
53:57related to the parole office yeah I can
54:00see how the department wouldn't
54:02communicate here but you'd think that
54:05all government agencies would have
54:07parolees
54:08tagged with an alert or something you
54:11know if they're involved in the 9-1-1
54:13call you'd think something would flag
54:17that but I guess government agencies
54:20work with crap technology so I guess
54:24this makes sense it's just frustrating
54:26but this next one is a real doozie
54:29in 2006 a neighbor of the Garrido's
54:32called 911 that there were tents in the
54:36backyard and
54:37children were living in them they also
54:39sang burrito was a psychotic and had
54:42sexual addictions a deputy responded to
54:45the call and talked with Phillip Garrido
54:48but he never even went in the door of
54:50the house he talked at the front door
54:52for about thirty minutes but then just
54:55left saying it's a code violation for
54:58people to live outside on the property
55:00you think maybe running a check on the
55:03identity of this guy would show that
55:05this guy was a parolee not
55:08I mean he's convicted of violent sexual
55:11crimes in 2006 they had a database
55:14didn't they like the officer didn't even
55:18go back to check out the actual tents
55:21that were reported he just talked to the
55:23guy on the stoop and I've never
55:25interacted with a cop without them
55:27asking for my ID and checking to make
55:30sure that I don't have any reason to be
55:33arrested you know so it seems weird to
55:36me it just seems like a huge missed
55:38opportunity the Contra Costa County
55:41Sheriff actually issued a public apology
55:43for this particular incident after JC's
55:45rescue yeah which that's nice but it's
55:50too little too late there was one last
55:54missed opportunity that was probably the
55:56biggest issue
55:57it was his parole monitoring itself it
56:01turns out that ggarrido was not properly
56:03classified in the parole system and was
56:06labeled as only needing low-level
56:08supervision so there were several lapses
56:11by the California Department of
56:13Corrections and Rehabilitation this was
56:17a violent sexual offender who was
56:19originally sentenced to 40 or more years
56:23in prison but in other words he should
56:28have been checked on a lot more often
56:30than he was and there was even an
56:33instance where his parole officer saw
56:35the twelve-year-old daughter of JC but
56:38just accepted burritos explanation about
56:41it burrito told the officer that she was
56:46his brother's daughter and the officer
56:49did nothing to verify it
56:51did this officer even know what this man
56:54was originally charged with he's a
56:56violent sexual offender
57:01so that's it for missed opportunities
57:05that we could know of but it's really
57:09frustrating to know that he was on
57:11parole he was supposed to have no
57:15contact with underage people and he was
57:19supposed to stay within 25 miles of his
57:21home which he rarely did but he wasn't
57:25he wasn't checked down very often by the
57:27parole office anyway enough of this
57:33garbage about Phillip Garrido let's talk
57:35about JC now and the difference she's
57:38making she's founded the Jace I believe
57:44that's how she pronounced it JC no she
57:48pronounced it Jace foundation so it's at
57:52the JC foundation org this is aa g.j a
57:58YC foundation dad org so if you want to
58:01go check it out that's the link and
58:03we'll put it in the show notes of this
58:06episode but do you want to talk about
58:09what that is
58:11sure the foundation's message is just
58:14ask yourself to care as so she cleverly
58:18used her initials yeah I guess a name
58:21letters the mission is to be of service
58:25to families that have suffered a
58:27familiar or non familiar abduction or
58:29other trauma to spread the message of
58:32compassion and awareness through
58:34educational programs to encourage the
58:37collaboration of various entities to
58:39provide protected spaces for families to
58:42heal we believe that families heal best
58:44from within but they need assistance to
58:47accomplish this we connect families to
58:50support and services they need in order
58:52to recover from the abduction or other
58:54traumatic events and in many cases
58:56provide the funding for these services
58:58our funding comes through private
59:01donations and sales from our website
59:03store we also serve families who have
59:05lost a member in service to our country
59:07who are reconnecting after a separation
59:09caused by military deployment or who
59:13have experienced a loss
59:15after military post-traumatic suicides
59:18the Jase Foundation provides services by
59:21utilizing treatment programs that focus
59:24on healing through traditional therapy
59:26along with animal therapy what's that
59:29word at Queen I believe that means horse
59:32therapy Oh a queen therapy or other
59:36experimental therapy that's not the
59:39right word
59:40a Quinn experience oh is that
59:43experiential oh okay sorry this
59:48comprehensive approach brings families
59:50together with treatment programs
59:52designed especially for them and their
59:54unique circumstances I think by
59:57experiencial therapies it means like
59:59having interesting experiences together
1:00:03you know to make good memories
1:00:06mm-hmm we also offer training to law
1:00:10enforcement officers so others can learn
1:00:12from our experience we have been asked
1:00:15and are happy to present our ideas to
1:00:17groups of interested agencies and
1:00:19professionals countrywide yeah so
1:00:23providing a lot of practical and useful
1:00:26tools and services to help with these
1:00:31cases that you know it's important and
1:00:36she knows you know what a recovering
1:00:40kidnap Vic domer
1:00:41you know survivors of abuse need mm-hmm
1:00:45so it's cool that she's doing this but
1:00:49yeah that that's pretty much it for the
1:00:52Jaycee Lee Dugard story so well yeah
1:00:57it's a it's a big story again we want to
1:01:01thank Liz for suggesting it for us yeah
1:01:05it's it's a huge story it's such a large
1:01:11chunk of her life that she lost and it's
1:01:14a lot to think about but that brings us
1:01:18to the review portion of our show which
1:01:20we forgot to do last week oh we did yeah
1:01:24oh you're right I've been dropping the
1:01:25ball man I had an emotional couple weeks
1:01:28after recording episode 52 if you
1:01:33haven't heard it yet it's my personal
1:01:34story I've been a little bit off but
1:01:39doing well actually Kate and ignorance
1:01:42was bliss released an episode her last
1:01:46episode I think it was 124 with Tony
1:01:48PLAs from the dirty bits podcast talking
1:01:52about the same thing I've talked about
1:01:54and she has her own experience with it
1:01:57Tony and it was really cool to hear her
1:02:01story and her perspective you know
1:02:05because it's a different monster to
1:02:07everybody but it's really something that
1:02:10a lot of people don't want to talk about
1:02:12and I liked what Kate said I had a
1:02:14revelation that I never really thought
1:02:16about before but Kate said a lot of
1:02:18people compare it to a drug addiction
1:02:19but when you recover from a drug
1:02:23addiction like you know you have to
1:02:25actively seek it out to get it and it's
1:02:28a lot more of a choice but when you're
1:02:30addicted to food that's something that's
1:02:34always there it's it's an everyday thing
1:02:36that everyone is always having so and
1:02:39it's a necessity to life you constantly
1:02:41have to live with being around what
1:02:43you're addicted to and so that's what
1:02:46makes it different from drug addiction
1:02:47and so thank you Kate for pointing that
1:02:50out because I haven't even thought about
1:02:52like that before but go listen to that
1:02:55it's really good if you haven't heard my
1:02:57story you can check that out episode 52
1:03:00but I'll read this review that we just
1:03:03got yesterday actually I guess Saturday
1:03:07it's called aptly named podcast and said
1:03:11I listened to many many podcasts most of
1:03:14them are related to true crime in some
1:03:16way the thing that makes Ryan and Rosie
1:03:19stand out is the empathy they show for
1:03:21the victims most true crime podcasts are
1:03:24perpetrator focus how they grew up what
1:03:27their motivations were etc I like those
1:03:30podcasts just as much as the next guy
1:03:32but it is reflect
1:03:33refreshing to listen to a show where the
1:03:35concern is for those people who have
1:03:37become footnotes in their own murders or
1:03:40abuse Thank You Rand and Rosie and thank
1:03:43you
1:03:44straik and soda or strick and said it oh
1:03:47three I think you got it I never know
1:03:52how to pronounce names and stuff but do
1:03:55you have anything else to say yeah I
1:03:57wanted to say thank you to Mae ba who
1:04:00sent us a really nice email I think you
1:04:03said it right so maybe she'll let us
1:04:05know well she gave us she typed up the
1:04:09spelling so hopefully yes she she sent
1:04:14us such a nice email and just talked
1:04:16about how much she appreciated Ryan's
1:04:19story and she even talked about how she
1:04:21appreciated my story yeah yeah maybe I
1:04:26really appreciate your message it was
1:04:28very mm-hmm sweet of you in those
1:04:31messages letting us know how what we
1:04:34talked about impacted you they mean a
1:04:36lot to us so never feel like you
1:04:39shouldn't send a message because you're
1:04:40like oh they don't have time or they
1:04:43won't be able to respond you know we'll
1:04:45eventually get to every message and we
1:04:48appreciate all of them and we always
1:04:50reply to anything we get so Mavis said
1:04:53that she laughs and cries with us she
1:04:55loves our couple dynamic in our
1:04:58chemistry we appreciate you so much
1:05:00thank you so much for your kind words
1:05:01and support yeah Thank You Rosie for
1:05:04bringing that up shot it did make my day
1:05:07when up when we got it mm-hmm but I
1:05:10suppose we could wrap it up it's getting
1:05:12to be pretty long episode but if you do
1:05:16enjoy our show we'd love if you
1:05:19supported us on patreon where you can
1:05:21get four bonus episodes and we'll be
1:05:25releasing one per month normally unless
1:05:29something comes up but and then there's
1:05:31also cool stuff you can get like coffee
1:05:33mugs stickers yeah magnets postcards
1:05:36with a personal message from us so if
1:05:38any of that sounds cool to you
1:05:39definitely think about supporting us
1:05:41yeah and be sure to give us a five star
1:05:44review so we'll share your review on our
1:05:46show yeah good idea
1:05:49also we're on
1:05:50so Graham at vov podcast and Twitter at
1:05:53vov pod and if you want to email us its
1:05:56vov podcast at gmail.com and all those
1:06:00links will be in the description below
1:06:03alright yep
1:06:05wait description this isn't YouTube the
1:06:07show notes I'm tired
1:06:13yes yes okay well thank you all for
1:06:17listening and we'll talk to you next
1:06:18week everybody has a story and that all
1:06:35those stories are clear black and white
1:06:37issues even when we think they are we
1:06:40wonder how did this happen or what is
1:06:43that like or what happens next
1:06:46are you sure you really want to know
1:06:49this is ignorant Swiss bliss at iwb
1:06:53podcast if you're looking for an
1:06:58in-depth detailed academic analysis of
1:07:02the past devoid of any comedy or
1:07:04entertainment value presented by an
1:07:06educated historian with a PhD this isn't
1:07:10the show for you hi I'm Tony pilatus a
1:07:13professional voice-over actor who gives
1:07:16a very casual very Southern Californian
1:07:19and hopefully very comedic retelling of
1:07:22the sexy scandalous and salacious
1:07:25stories from history your teacher
1:07:27probably left out on my podcast
1:07:30the dirty bits catch the show on taani
1:07:32voice calm or anywhere podcasts are
1:07:35found chat same Love Bug

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