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4/21/2026 - Sunnyside City Council Special Meeting — Transcript

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0:00receipt.
0:05Can you hear this?
0:07Are you asking if I can hear? Yeah.
0:09It's super quiet.
0:12Am I
0:13Am I
0:14on my microphone? That's better. Okay.
0:21Oh.
0:22How come that says you?
0:24Too fat?
0:28That was the last person hired.
0:31And what name did I get? J Hart? J Hart.
0:35Yes, J Hart.
0:38Is this all good? It's all good to go?
0:39Okay.
0:47Okay, we're going to go ahead and call
0:49this meeting to order at 6:04 p.m.
0:53Tuesday, April 21st, 2026.
0:56Uh for the record, all members of
0:59council are here.
1:01Uh and we the city attorney is joining
1:03in via Zoom.
1:05Um
1:07Council, um I
1:10wanted to call this special meeting uh
1:12for a few items and you see them on the
1:14agenda.
1:16Uh part of it is going to be dealt um
1:18primarily in in executive session.
1:20Um and the top of of the agenda here is
1:26um around discussion uh regarding
1:29recruitment hiring process for for
1:31officer positions. So, I was having a
1:34conversation
1:36with uh Mr. Haley
1:39last week um regarding
1:42um
1:44the
1:46process for the hiring of the new city
1:49clerk.
1:50Um I did email him and I expressed some
1:54some concerns and
1:56also wanted to preface my conversation
1:59with him to note that per RCW, it's not
2:03ever my intention to meddle in the
2:05operations of City Hall. Um those belong
2:10under his purview, but it is up to
2:13council to set direction so he can
2:15conduct business.
2:18Um
2:21I thought that this would be a good
2:23conversation to bring amongst us and to
2:26hold that conversation here.
2:29Partly because
2:31um
2:33I went through our city council
2:34priorities and I remember some of us
2:37were still on council. There was a few
2:40of us that were on council where we went
2:43and we um
2:45updated some of these priorities to
2:47reflect the vision of where the council
2:49wanted to take the city.
2:52And part of it of that is the type of
2:55environment that we want to make sure
2:57that we establish at City Hall given
3:00that along the way there's been
3:02so many gaps, so much turnover um and
3:08through many of you hearing that there
3:10is an urgent need to make sure that we
3:14really cultivate a positive environment
3:16and given that the city clerk is such an
3:18important important position
3:20I want to make sure that um I brought
3:23this forward to you all to initiate a
3:24conversation
3:26around
3:28um establishing processes and really
3:31expectations around those processes from
3:33council
3:34um before any permanent hiring is
3:38conducted.
3:41And
3:42um I know that there was um some uh
3:45conversation happening a couple meetings
3:48ago. Councilor Chavez had brought up
3:50some questions. I had brought up some
3:52questions. Think I addressed some of
3:54those to Julie Norton um around certain
3:57people that applied during the first
4:00round and then we had a second pool of
4:02folks that applied the second time and
4:06um and I I think having had a
4:09conversation with with Mr. Haley, there
4:11we've come down to I think just one one
4:14viable candidate now
4:17um and um I did ask if we could just
4:21hold on offering um uh a job um
4:27uh what do you call it? A job offer
4:30um until we held this conversation
4:32amongst us uh today. Well, actually, I
4:34wanted it to be Monday a little bit
4:36earlier, but we're here now Tuesday.
4:39Um
4:40And um
4:43I think that one of the most important
4:45things that um that we we need to
4:48identify as council is what what are
4:50those priorities and given our
4:52conversation with community, given our
4:54conversation with staff
4:56what is it that we want to prioritize in
4:59in terms of of processes around
5:01recruitment, um hiring and and giving
5:05that direction to the interim city
5:08manager.
5:09My belief is that during the time that
5:12we have an interim city manager, we
5:14shouldn't be conducting or um hiring any
5:18doing any permanent hire um especially
5:22when we haven't really established a
5:24vision forward for for the city.
5:27Um in some of the city council
5:29priorities that we developed together
5:32was around communications
5:35uh community engagement, transparency
5:38um
5:41youth and volunteer recognition. I'm
5:42just reading some of them off. The city
5:44manager conducting community forums and
5:46standardizing processes, contracts
5:49forms um
5:52but
5:53my suggestion is and I'm opening it up
5:55because I am one of seven is that we
5:59identify
6:00the priorities. We amend many of these
6:03outdated priorities and then we provide
6:06direction for um the interim city
6:09manager and when the time comes that we
6:12have a more permanent city manager,
6:14think that the permanent hiring should
6:17then take place. But even with the
6:19interim hiring, we should really have a
6:21vision of the environment and the
6:24culture that will that we are
6:26cultivating and that comes at the
6:28direction of council to the city manager
6:31and then the executive conducts his
6:33business. So, I wanted to open up for
6:35conversation. Um
6:37uh this is discussion with the goal of
6:41then directing Pat with a more clear
6:45pathway forward as he then goes and and
6:50conducts business. We might not get to
6:52establishing all priorities today. This
6:54might be another conversation that we
6:56have during a another workshop or it
7:00might be a special meeting to have a
7:02strategic plan that we've been talking
7:04about for quite some time, but I think
7:06it really is important um to
7:10really have a framework uh before we
7:14conduct more permanent or establish more
7:17permanent decision-making.
7:24And now I will open it up to feedback.
7:30Go ahead, counselor. Yes, counselor.
7:32Yes, I have a question. I just I would
7:33just like to know like what what is it
7:36that you're like kind of like your
7:37reservations or what what direction are
7:40you not really liking in regards to like
7:42the direction that Pat's taking with the
7:44current hiring process? Yeah, so I put
7:47this on record, so it is on email um and
7:50and some of my my reservations uh were
7:53um that
7:55many of the candidates were not um
7:59within community.
8:00And I know that um
8:02um
8:03talking to community and trying to
8:05establish
8:06a better relationship working
8:08relationship within within City Hall
8:11and just coming off the heels from a
8:13meeting around workforce development and
8:16really developing the skills skills that
8:18here at home and making sure that we are
8:20developing jobs for our people here at
8:22home
8:23I think it's important especially for
8:25such a front-facing position for that
8:29person and uh for as long as it takes to
8:33maybe find them
8:34um to be established and be community
8:37rooted. I think it's an a position that
8:39really needs to understand the community
8:42uh needs to come from the community
8:44especially because many times they were
8:46the first ones to be getting the calls
8:48from community. Uh so, uh that was my
8:52first uh point of um
8:55in the conversation that I had with with
8:57Pat. Um another uh point point of the
9:00conversation that we had is when I
9:02asked, you know, are is there um
9:04any requirements for this individual to
9:08be uh bilingual?
9:10And I know our previous uh clerk was
9:14bilingual and oftentimes because we
9:15didn't have access to interpreting
9:17services which is very much important
9:19here in this community, sometimes they
9:21were um doing the interpretation
9:24um and it's not just here on council,
9:26but it is also when you're such a
9:28front-facing position, it is those
9:30direct conversations and initial that
9:32you will be having with community.
9:35Um
9:37another um
9:40um reservation
9:42that I openly spoke with with Pat about
9:47was um some of the individuals that
9:51participated in the
9:54assessment of those candidates.
9:58Um
9:59I know that um
10:01Pat had reservations, which I agreed
10:03with in the beginning, was to initiate a
10:07process that was going to be the most
10:08unbiased and most neutralized process
10:11um in terms of hiring. So, making sure
10:14that we were getting somebody who didn't
10:17have any ties with anybody, didn't bring
10:20forth
10:22um
10:23um any perceived conflict, and um just
10:28knowing that there was some individuals
10:30that took that participated in some of
10:32the assess- some of the or the
10:33assessment for some of the higher
10:36um
10:37it was a little concerning to me because
10:40it was a little contradictory to that
10:42initial conversation that actually
10:44Deputy Mayor was a part of
10:46um during one of our one-on-ones with
10:48with Mr. Haley. It was establishing a
10:51more neutral and unbiased process to
10:53then bringing in a couple individuals
10:57that
10:58I perceived brought in some conflict of
11:00interest.
11:01Um so, those are a couple reservations
11:04that I talked to Mr. Haley about.
11:07Um
11:08uh but
11:10I really do believe that this that this
11:12position really should be sought in
11:14community
11:16um and not across state lines.
11:22Uh go ahead, Counselor Chavez, and then
11:23I'll come to
11:25You know, I I did also have a
11:27conversation with uh Mr. Haley. You
11:30know, I I also had some concerns with um
11:33you know, just
11:35the way we approached the some of the
11:37people that did apply for the position.
11:39They weren't notified about hey, you're
11:41not a candidate or you are. And I
11:44understand there is a lot of applicants.
11:47But I think we as a community, as a
11:49city, should be able to at least give
11:51them that opportunity to say, you
11:54are disqualified, continue to apply
11:57future, you know, and I spoke with three
11:59of the the candidates that did apply,
12:01and what all three of them said that
12:03they never got a phone call at all from
12:05the city in regards to the application.
12:08And so, I think we owe it to them,
12:11you know, cuz I'm going to be honest, I
12:13told
12:14probably about seven or eight people say
12:15apply for the position.
12:17You know, and one of them told me, he
12:19goes, "Why do I apply for the position
12:21if I've already applied twice and I've
12:22never gotten a phone call?" I go, "Apply
12:24for the position. We at least owe you
12:26that." And so, I think it's um it's
12:28something that we owe to the people that
12:30are applying for the position. I'm not
12:32saying we're going to call all 100 200
12:34people, but I think the most qualified
12:37candidates, or at least some of the poll
12:39we can do the due diligence of letting
12:41them know, "Hey, you know what? Thank
12:43you for applying. Um we are going this
12:46route, and this is kind of where we're
12:47at."
12:48And that's kind of where I'm I sit with
12:50it. So, I did I did kind of
12:53I wasn't
12:55I I did talk to Mr. Haley, and my my
12:57approach is never to I want you to hire
13:00this person. My approach is as a city, I
13:02think we at least owe that to the ones
13:04that did apply for that position.
13:06To give them a hey,
13:07"Sorry, you just just you you didn't
13:10make the poll, and we got somebody else
13:11or something." But
13:13we they've applied what? 2 months ago
13:15and a month ago month ago, and they have
13:17not heard from the city at all. And
13:18they've asked me, said, "Hey, you told
13:20me to apply." And you know, I know that
13:22other uh candi- as uh some other council
13:24members told other people to apply, and
13:27they haven't gotten calls. So, I think
13:29it's I think we owe it to them, too.
13:31Can I make sure we're being clear on
13:33roles and responsibilities here? Because
13:35this is a council-manager form of
13:37government. So, when you have this open
13:38position, the manager has the authority
13:41to actually hire that position. The
13:43council can set the policy and say,
13:46"These are the kinds of of this is the
13:48process we want to use," potentially
13:50like forming a hiring committee of some
13:52sort. Um but the manager was tasked with
13:56hiring a a existing position with
13:58essentially existing job descriptions.
14:01And that is within his purview to do.
14:04And I
14:05I think you're going to be hurting
14:06yourself in this process by pulling the
14:08brakes now,
14:10creating new criteria for potentially
14:12new applicants.
14:14Um
14:15and resending it out, and you're just
14:16putting this further down the road. You
14:18You desperately need a clerk. You have
14:20too many public records requests
14:21outstanding.
14:23Um
14:23and so, I think the time to have this
14:25conversation was before you advertised
14:26for the position. Because now you're
14:28coming dangerously close to interfering
14:30with his ability, as even as the interim
14:32manager, to hire the position.
14:37Go ahead, Counselor Guzman.
14:39I I agree with you, Julie. I mean, I was
14:41just going to say that.
14:43Council is responsible to hire one
14:46person,
14:47and that's the city manager. And this is
14:49borderline crossing over. Um
14:52it's not our purview. It's uh there's
14:54RCW's that that protect that. And just
14:57because we don't like a couple people
15:00that were involved with the hiring
15:02process, I mean,
15:04oh well, right? I mean, they're they're
15:05they're experienced. They they know what
15:07they're doing. They're they have the
15:08experience at the city clerk office.
15:10Um
15:10you know, put somebody in front of me
15:12that I don't like, and if it's for the
15:14community, then I'll work with them. I
15:15don't care. I don't I don't hold
15:17grudges. Um
15:19you know,
15:20Counselor Chavez, you say,
15:21you know, we didn't notify everybody
15:25that that that you know, applied for the
15:27position.
15:28Last time I heard it was over 120
15:30people. Like, do you imagine 125. How
15:33many? 225. 225. Do you imagine, you
15:36know, having to call 224 people to say
15:39they don't qualify? And now I hear that
15:41only notified certain people. I mean,
15:44this isn't
15:46We We can't use emotions on this. We
15:48can't you know, if if if they applied,
15:51thank you for applying. Um you know, if
15:53you didn't receive a call back from from
15:55the city, that's an obvious, you know,
15:58you didn't get the job. It It's It's
16:00It's not
16:01don't take it personal, right? I mean,
16:03people apply to different positions uh
16:06everywhere, and then and you know, don't
16:08get calls at times.
16:09You know, it's it's it's not our job to
16:11be calling and and and coddling people
16:13[clears throat] and and you know, oh,
16:14you didn't get the job.
16:16Um Mr. Haley got hired to do a job, and
16:19you're doing the job, and you're you're
16:21hiring somebody. And the fact that the
16:23the the person that you're considering
16:25is not from town,
16:27you know, I used to think that. I used
16:29to think let's let's offer it to to to
16:31people that live here, but
16:33if if we're going to put that before,
16:36you know,
16:37experience or or or um
16:41you know, you you can't take it
16:42personal. You can't you you can't try to
16:44hire somebody that you personally know
16:45in the community. I would love for
16:47somebody in the community that, you
16:49know, be qualified to do the job, by all
16:51means, but this is an important job.
16:53This is an important position for the
16:54city, and we can't we can't keep kicking
16:58the can, right? I should mention that
17:00the leading practice for responding to
17:03those who are inquire who apply for a
17:05job is that after we have hired
17:07somebody, then we tell them, because you
17:10never know
17:11whether or not your finalists are going
17:13to accept the position at all. So, they
17:15never really do hear until we're done
17:17with the process. Yeah.
17:19Thank you for that. I I can agree with
17:21with you on that, but you know,
17:24it
17:25we're not the managers. We hire a
17:26manager to do a job. Let's let him do
17:28the job.
17:32Go ahead, Counselor Dolan. I uh I've
17:34been hearing about hiring somebody
17:36that's not from Sunnyside.
17:39And if we're going to do that, let's
17:40take a look at all of our situations
17:43where we have people that don't live
17:45here,
17:46yet they're
17:47already dealing with our city business.
17:50Um
17:51that goes a long ways. I mean, look at
17:52the police department. Look at the fire
17:55department. What's going on here?
17:57We make the rules, and then we don't
17:59follow our own rules.
18:02I yield back.
18:04And I think that's a really great point,
18:05uh Counselor Dolan. I actually agree
18:07with that. So, if if it is uh going back
18:09to Ms. Norton's point about um that we
18:12are able to set um
18:14policy, and we're able to provide
18:17direction, maybe when it comes to
18:19committee, maybe that's something that
18:20we need to revisit. Maybe that is
18:21eventually or finally going to improve
18:23the culture everywhere across the city
18:26departments.
18:27Is to make sure that we're hiring
18:30competent, community-rooted people that
18:32understand the community, people that
18:34know the community, are connected with
18:35the community. Maybe that's that is our
18:37job.
18:38That is our job. So, nobody's telling
18:41Pat who to hire. Nobody's telling him
18:43that he needs to hire specific person A
18:45or specific person B. But I think it is
18:48our duty as as council to set the policy
18:52that Pat will follow.
18:55Go ahead, Counselor Vasquez.
18:57Yeah, no, so I kept hearing, you know,
18:59the word front-facing position, and the
19:01city clerk position is very crucial and
19:03very important. And as for trying to
19:06find someone, you know,
19:07community-rooted, I'm all for that as
19:08well. Like, if there is someone within
19:10Sunnyside or within a very close
19:12neighboring city who does have a certain
19:15set set of skill set that is required
19:17for this position, you know, they're
19:18going to do a lot of work. It's not just
19:21a regular, you know, like front
19:23reception position. Like, a front
19:25reception position, it's pretty easy.
19:27It's um
19:28pretty straight to the point. We can
19:30pretty much like get anyone, especially
19:32community-rooted from here. Yes, that's
19:35that's quick and easy, but we're talking
19:36about a city clerk position. We're
19:38talking about a position that needs to
19:40run our meetings, that needs to be
19:42familiar with Zoom, with OPMA, with
19:46government experience, you know, like
19:48preferable, like because
19:50we're right now in a position where
19:53you know, our attorney just said, "We're
19:55already like have an outstanding amount
19:56of public records requests. We There's
19:59so much that the city is falling behind
20:01on and behind on and behind on." The
20:03more that we prolong this whole um
20:05position, and we really need someone and
20:09in my opinion, I think we really do
20:11desperately need someone with experience
20:13already. And even if it's like not going
20:15to be like a permanent like position,
20:18you know, I don't know like but we
20:19really need to just get someone right
20:21now. Like that's where I'm at. We just
20:22need someone right now. Um preferably
20:24with experience, preferably with OPMA,
20:27everything, all the qualifications. Like
20:29let's just get someone right now, catch
20:31up, figure this out. And you know, and
20:33as for direction, as for direction, I
20:36agree like bilingual is
20:38like a like a crucial. Like we do need
20:41someone who's bilingual. Like if there's
20:42someone who you're seeing and you know,
20:45like there's your top five or if
20:47whatever like bilingual is very
20:49necessary because we serve a community
20:51that is literally like 90% like like
20:55Spanish-speaking and that is super
20:56important. I will not I cannot like just
20:59say that enough, but as for like
21:02everything else, I just think that
21:03experience is really important.
21:05Community-rooted would be really nice. I
21:07agree, but let's take a look at those
21:09you know, for example, 425 applicants
21:12who did apply. How many of them have
21:13government experience? How many of them
21:15even know what OPMA means? How many of
21:18them know that this is going to be a
21:19full-time
21:21position with a lot of high stress and
21:24and a lot of like, you know, just demand
21:27and we need someone who can keep up and
21:29do an excellent work because at the end
21:32of the day if we just grab anyone or get
21:33anyone and like things that this could
21:36cost like this person is going to like
21:38can if they're not doing the work
21:40correctly, it could cost us money. You
21:42know, and it's something like very high
21:44a very high um position, so
21:47I think we really need to just
21:49um I feel just need someone.
21:52Go ahead, Council I'll come right back
21:54to you, Deputy Mayor.
21:55>> Um just to piggyback off um Karen a
21:57little bit. Yeah, like in the being
21:59bilingual is really important and um
22:02community-rooted
22:04um
22:05to like central, you know, community
22:08members who like she said will be taking
22:11phone calls, will be assisting in
22:12everything else. And I don't know who
22:15who is in mind or anything. I don't know
22:18anybody about that person, but I would
22:20assume that they would they're thinking
22:22about that person or people because
22:24they're the most qualified, but I've
22:26also have heard comments about we don't
22:29want anybody who's tied to anybody um in
22:33uh city hall or council, which if we're
22:37looking for somebody who's committed
22:39community-rooted,
22:41I mean
22:42I think a lot of us know a lot of people
22:45in in um the valley here, so um I think
22:49that would be hard and if we're going to
22:51shoot for you know, not have any any
22:54ties to anybody, well
22:58those who helped with the interview do
23:00have ties to the community, so that
23:03doesn't make sense.
23:05Just my two cents. If you like, I can
23:07walk you through the process that I used
23:11so that you could find anything that you
23:13might want to change or correct.
23:18Uh
23:19the clerk position
23:21is probably
23:23next to the police chief
23:26the most important position in
23:28uh
23:30in a city administration. I mean, you
23:32you have to have a clerk.
23:35And so it was a desperate thing that I
23:37made as my number one priority and I
23:39communicated that to everyone and I also
23:41said they're hard to find.
23:44And so I contacted
23:47Yakima, Ellensburg, Prosser, Toppenish,
23:51Richland, Ephrata, Grandview, Union Gap,
23:54Pasco, and the Washington Municipal
23:57Clerk Association to ask for help
24:00because you just can't put anybody in
24:02these positions.
24:04Initially, I hoped we could find someone
24:06who could serve as an interim
24:08city clerk
24:09so that they could be on hand to train
24:12somebody that would not come in with
24:15that quality of experience, but this is
24:17unsuccessful because as it turns out
24:19retired clerks like to stay retired.
24:24>> [clears throat]
24:25>> So I communicated to all the council
24:28members that this is going to be a
24:29challenge
24:31and Tom Dolan came forward with the
24:33resume of Debbie Estrada.
24:37I was not told anything about her past
24:40or any association with the city.
24:42And you should know that I have not
24:45looked at anything as it relates to past
24:48YouTube videos or past meetings or
24:50anything in the past cuz I wanted
24:52everybody to have
24:54a clean slate, start all over. You've
24:56heard me say less past, more future,
24:59sunny side up. We're We're moving on.
25:02So when Tom gave me this resume, I just
25:06looked at three pages of credentials.
25:09And I said, "Well, here's somebody who
25:11knows something about hiring a clerk
25:12because this is
25:15pretty uh
25:17pretty self-explanatory. She said she
25:19would help in any way.
25:21We had um
25:23four candidates that we selected
25:26and the filtering process was that they
25:28had to have some public experience,
25:31public sector experience.
25:34And in in their information material
25:37that they provided, they said that they
25:39had worked with agendas, that they had
25:41worked with public records, and they
25:43were familiar with government
25:44regulations. So that was the filter that
25:47we used to take the list of candidates
25:51that we had to evaluate. And we selected
25:54four
25:55who had backgrounds with the city of
25:56Seattle,
25:58the city of Missoula, Yakima School
26:00District, and Ben Franklin Transit. We
26:03had a fifth candidate that we
26:04interviewed, which was an Army veteran
26:07and we're required by law to interview
26:09veterans who apply for positions.
26:12It turned out that the one from the
26:13Yakima School District pulled back
26:16because she said that she wasn't ready
26:17to make that kind of change for her
26:20her cur-
26:21her career path, so it was narrowed down
26:24to three people.
26:26The interview committee consisted of as
26:28me,
26:29Vanessa,
26:31Keith, and myself.
26:34This provided cross-department,
26:36cross-gender, cross-age, and
26:39cross-ethni- ethnicity ethnicity.
26:43Two finalists were picked from that.
26:46Now, since none of us know anything
26:47about hiring a clerk,
26:49we asked
26:51uh Deb Estrada
26:53and Debbie Zabel to interview them to
26:56just tell us which of these two
26:59are the best of the of our selection.
27:02And as it turned out, one has pulled
27:04back, so now we're just left with the
27:06one that this committee
27:08selected.
27:10We could have stopped right there and
27:11not involved
27:13um either of those two outside people,
27:17but I thought just as a final check
27:19because I don't know anything about
27:21clerks, why don't we bring in somebody
27:22who knows something about clerks
27:25to just do an assessment of who the
27:27finalists were. So they were not
27:29involved in the interview process, they
27:30didn't see who we were selecting,
27:33they didn't see any of our candidates.
27:34We just said, "Here's who our finalists
27:36are."
27:37>> [clears throat]
27:39>> In those contacts of all those cities
27:42that I reached out to at to ask for some
27:44help, Dan Ford, the city manager of
27:47Toppenish, agreed to help us out. So I
27:50will have an interlocal agreement
27:53with the city of Toppenish
27:55that will allow their city clerk to kind
27:57of mentor this new person and provide
27:59some guidance as to what is necessary
28:02for for serving as a clerk while they go
28:05through the training process to become
28:08certified themselves and uh satisfy the
28:11requirements of a public records officer
28:14cuz we need to have that.
28:16Uh they even came and toured through the
28:18office of the clerk so they could
28:20understand the filing system and the
28:22organization and where things are on the
28:24computer
28:26so that we just don't toss that person
28:28in there and say, "Figure it out." cuz
28:30none of us knew.
28:32So they're going to handle the
28:33transition for that new person to come
28:35in.
28:36They'll also be available on call and
28:38Jafre is going to work it out so they
28:40have access to that computer so that if
28:42something comes up immediately, that
28:44person now has somebody they can
28:45contact.
28:47So that's the process that we went
28:49through and I wanted it to be as
28:51transparent as possible so that when it
28:53was on the table being evaluated, nobody
28:56could say there was any favoritism going
28:57on there, there was no preselection.
29:00Yes, it would be nice to have uh
29:03uh bilingual, but that's another layer
29:05of filter and that would have eliminated
29:07all those that finalists were None of
29:09those
29:10were, so we would have had to reevaluate
29:12what our filter is if bilingual was a
29:14part of it because that would have
29:16eliminated all those with some public
29:18sector background because they
29:21they weren't bilingual.
29:23So it becomes a very
29:26limiting process when you kind of layer
29:29on these extra things that you want your
29:31your person to have.
29:33And so uh my goal is to staff the city
29:36with the best team, the very best team.
29:39And I was uh I'm very excited about
29:42who we're going to have
29:44uh because they um
29:47they basically did clerk type of work
29:49for the city of Missoula.
29:52But without that title. Missoula is a
29:54big city, so they probably have lots of
29:56these kind of people on their various
29:58staffs.
29:59And um
30:01She's from Missoula, has family and she
30:04grew up in Prosser, has family in the
30:06Tri-Cities, got
30:08nephews and nieces that are growing up
30:10and she realizes that she's missing
30:12that, so she wants to come back.
30:14And that's a good reason. So um
30:17That's the process that I used.
30:20Um
30:22I should also mention, you know, that I
30:24I see my role here
30:27without
30:29uh you know, the specific definition
30:30that might have been referred to as kind
30:32of a team-building, bridge-building,
30:35putting together. We have some
30:37key positions that have to be filled,
30:39you know, uh
30:41We had no city clerk, no administrative
30:44support staff, no public works director,
30:46community development director. Our
30:48finance director is working remote from
30:50Alabama.
30:51We have books that are not reconciled. I
30:53looked in the budget, we're $2 million
30:55in debt in our general fund starting the
30:57year off. We have lawsuits and tort
31:00claims. We have all the labor contracts
31:02that need to be negotiated. We have new
31:04council members. We have
31:06multiple public records that are
31:08stacking up
31:10needing response.
31:14That's what I came into.
31:16So I
31:18I'm here to help.
31:21I'm here I have really fallen in love
31:23with the staff. My heart goes out to
31:25them. I you know, they they watched the
31:27departure of some good people. They're
31:29people that they've known.
31:31Transitions that have happened. They all
31:33are
31:35to be honest with you, kind of
31:36demoralized because they wonder who's
31:38next, what's next, how long is this
31:40going to be?
31:41So I'm trying to stabilize it so when
31:43you do have a new city manager, he gets
31:45to start it off on a firm foundation and
31:47doesn't have to backfill all these
31:49holes.
31:52Deputy Mayor had a comment before I go
31:54to Well, I I forgot what it was, so
31:56you'll have to come back around. Oh,
31:58Council member I didn't write it down.
31:59I'm sorry.
32:01I [clears throat] just wanted to say
32:02thank you for sharing the process, Pat.
32:05Everything, you know, that sounded
32:06pretty solid and fair.
32:08And just thank you for sharing that and
32:10you know, and as for
32:12um the culture, you know, the culture of
32:15the
32:17of our staff in City Hall and you know,
32:19everyone who's coming on board and who
32:21will be joining us. Um I think it is
32:23very important to have a good culture
32:25and just thank you for like appreciating
32:27the staff and thank you for sharing that
32:29process and I just hope that everything
32:32goes and gets better from here on out.
32:36Well, I that's part of the reason why
32:38I'm giving you the tools like our core
32:41values, which you have there as the
32:43the Sunnyside traits.
32:45And uh and then also watching that video
32:49by Patrick Lencioni on the ideal team
32:51player about being humble,
32:53hungry and smart. Those are all the
32:56tools that I'm introducing to the staff
32:58and they're going, "We never had anybody
33:00that trained us in this way. We never
33:01had anybody that kind of guided us along
33:04on how to work together better."
33:06And so they're just
33:08they're just diving into it. They love
33:09it. So
33:11I'm here to help.
33:13Thank you.
33:14>> [clears throat]
33:16>> I still go back with having to set
33:19process and and and and policy around
33:22that. And you know what, Julie Julie,
33:23there's she made a point there about um
33:27having to probably work through this to
33:28re-establish to establish
33:31um
33:32our policy around expectations of his
33:35hiring and and his run of operations and
33:38we didn't do that before. And so
33:41I understand that we need a city clerk
33:43and we need them soon. How soon is this
33:46person going to be able to be on boarded
33:47if they're offered the job?
33:50Uh
33:51they have to give notice where they're
33:53at, so that's usually about 2 weeks and
33:56then they have to move here. And that's
33:57another couple weeks, so we figured as
33:59soon as they could be here is a month.
34:02And that's, you know, that's going to be
34:04true for every position you fill because
34:06if they're not here,
34:09they're going to have to move here
34:11or relocate here or or be in transit
34:14here. So I
34:17you know, I I fully support, you know,
34:19being a part of the community. I mean uh
34:23I came from Quincy. Quincy is just
34:25really a small version of Sunnyside.
34:27It's the same demographic, same
34:29population, same low low income, same
34:33uh everything. It's just on a smaller
34:35scale.
34:36And so uh
34:38I was, you know, connected to the
34:40community even though I lived in East
34:41Wenatchee because I was involved in the
34:42Rotary Club.
34:44Uh I was involved in community
34:46activities. And so a person can do it
34:48without being here. In fact, the best
34:51teachers are not necessarily always
34:52here. They're the best teachers who are
34:54the best teachers.
34:56And
34:57>> [clears throat]
34:57>> that's that's the way
34:59schools run.
35:02Um
35:03>> [clears throat]
35:03>> um Madam Chair, I I understand what you
35:06know, what the process and and and
35:07wanting to update it, but
35:09we're
35:11we're almost at the finish line with
35:12this and I'm fully committed if you want
35:15to take a look at them going forward
35:17once we have a city clerk. I'm fully
35:19committed to help you and and you know,
35:21as a council if if that's something that
35:23we want to do. But with this almost at
35:26the finish line, I think
35:28you know, we just we just can't be that
35:30wall and then get in the way and just
35:32need to let this happen.
35:37Go ahead and Um
35:38>> [clears throat]
35:38>> I I kind of tend to agree with that as
35:40well. I think, you know, having a
35:42process in place we've learned
35:45um here in the last few months as we've
35:47been going through various things and
35:48and helping to onboard Pat here. I guess
35:51that's the term onboard. Um but to you
35:55know, knowing there's so many things to
35:57learn and he's but he's done this sort
36:00of thing in in Quincy and
36:03other places where you've worked. So um
36:06and so I think that, you know, creating
36:08this
36:09policy or a procedure is not a bad
36:13thing. I think we maybe ought to take a
36:14look at it, see if it really is meeting
36:16our needs. I think since we have
36:19somebody that we've offered the contract
36:21to, is that correct?
36:23Pat?
36:25We have offered the contract I have a
36:27contract with the company that I work
36:30for. Okay, but no, I mean for the the
36:33clerk. I'm talking about the We have not
36:35issued
36:36offer of employment
36:39in
36:40with the completion of a background
36:42check. We are doing background checks.
36:44>> Okay, so we're down to the background
36:45check.
36:46No, we have to we haven't given them a
36:48letter yet. Oh, right. So That'll go out
36:50tomorrow if that's the decision. And so
36:53um
36:54And then we'll do a background check
36:56here.
36:57>> And then then she comes. But you talked
36:58about a month.
37:00Mhm.
37:01>> Right. Just basically a month.
37:03Well, I think, you know, as we're this
37:04close to to getting a clerk and and
37:06she's meeting um
37:08some of the criteria that that we can
37:10that we can work with, I think we should
37:11go ahead and and take that trip and
37:15make that decision and allow you to make
37:16that decision. I do think that we want
37:19to take a step back and and look at the
37:22process and see if there's any way that
37:24um as a as a council and we're talking
37:26about our procedures and thinking about
37:29um
37:30changing things in that way. I think we
37:33could certainly take some time and I
37:34know Mr. Galvan over here is really good
37:37at taking looks at those things and
37:39having that come out right. Um so I'm
37:41I'm okay, I think um
37:44I might not have chosen the people you
37:46chose, but I understand. I at least
37:48coming out of out of the expert field, I
37:51might not have chose those, but they're
37:53the people you were you were able to get
37:54a hold of. So um I think we could just
37:58move on from there. I'm I'm I'm okay
38:00with the
38:01where we're at on that. I think we just,
38:03you know, if that's a procedure we want
38:05to rewrite, then let's get together with
38:07and see how we want to rewrite it. But
38:09for now, I think we're at a position
38:11where we need to move forward.
38:14>> [clears throat]
38:15>> And and I really want to speak you did
38:17bring up a name, Deborah Estrada and you
38:21the initial conversation was about
38:23making sure that the process moving
38:25forward was
38:27going to be as intentional as possible.
38:30Um that the process was as unbiased
38:34and avoiding as much conflict of
38:35interest as possible.
38:37There was some concerns with a certain
38:39individual last year.
38:41Um and which really makes me question um
38:46their understanding of even city clerk
38:48roles when they were shouting from the
38:50audience point of order, which now we
38:52know because according to Ann McFarland,
38:54the training that we took,
38:56that's not acceptable.
38:58We should not be stopping a meeting to
39:00entertain a point of order that's coming
39:01from the audience. We do not do that
39:03with the gallery.
39:04That actually obstructs our city
39:06business, the business that we are meant
39:08to conduct.
39:09And then to to know that the wife of the
39:12man that, you know, brought you before
39:14us for hire was also under consideration
39:17to conduct an assessment for these
39:20candidates
39:21is also a perceived conflict of
39:22interest. So I do encourage you all to
39:27engage in
39:29creating
39:32policy
39:33that is then decided on by all of us
39:37that comes from
39:40conversations that we've been having
39:41amongst ourselves, conversations that
39:43we've been having with community,
39:45conversations that we all have been
39:47having with staff members that's been
39:49brought up a whole bunch. And making
39:51sure that
39:52we are moving forward and we are moving
39:55the city forward in a much better
39:58direction, cultivating a much better
40:00environment. And this there's been
40:02arguments amongst us. There's been a lot
40:04of pull tug and pull amongst us around
40:07what we want to see moving forward.
40:10The thing that scares me very permanent
40:13hire is that I should have I do take
40:16accountability because I should have
40:17thought of this before. I should have
40:19thought of bringing all of us together
40:22to setting this to setting policy,
40:24providing direction. So, at the time of
40:27hire, it was someone that we all, at
40:30least our our policy, our practices, if
40:32that's around committee, if that is
40:34around expectations,
40:36um if that is around this person being a
40:38lingual,
40:39those all should have been established
40:41because quite frankly going back to your
40:44point, Counselor Vasquez,
40:4670 over 70% of households in these
40:48communities speak Spanish. That should
40:51be a no-brainer when we're discussing
40:53anything city business, anything city
40:55business, is that folks need to be
40:58bilingual. They need to be able to
41:00connect to community. They need to be
41:03able to discuss um
41:06city business with with community. It is
41:09should be a very it it should probably
41:12be one of the priorities um that having
41:16already had conversation with the
41:17interim city manager or a more permanent
41:19city manager that they understand where
41:21the city council is trying to take this
41:23community forward. And [snorts] I do
41:24take accountability for not bringing us
41:26together and establishing these these
41:28city council priorities are extremely
41:30outdated. It's quite scary. And we
41:32haven't been able to actually create and
41:34carve out time to be able to update
41:36these and standardize these
41:38fully from all of the information that
41:41has been provided to us by community
41:43members, by small business owners, um by
41:46uh friends, by uh staff
41:50um and quite frankly by
41:54previous experiences that we have all
41:57undergone here while on the dais.
42:00So,
42:02um I will go with what the majority of
42:04council wants, but I really want us to
42:10consider
42:13and I don't know
42:14this is this is going to be such a
42:15permanent hire, but and I would really
42:17want us to consider
42:20um
42:23conducting
42:24I don't know if that's conducting
42:26another search or if that's more of an
42:28interim role, uh but I really just want
42:31to get this right. I really want to get
42:32this right. And that is my reservation
42:34and it's been my reservation just since
42:37the beginning being in conversations
42:38with Mr. Haley and the deputy mayor.
42:41Um
42:45So,
42:52Um
42:53Mayor Mayor um
42:55>> [clears throat]
42:56>> I think I think it that we we see I
42:58think it's I I see the point. I see what
43:00you're what you've been saying and I and
43:02the discussions. Um and I think that uh
43:06moving moving forward, I think we do
43:08need to go back to the drawing board on
43:10how that procedure works, working with
43:12the the manager to see, you know, what
43:14works, how do we go about finding cuz
43:17each of your panels when you hire
43:19somebody, when you're doing you're using
43:21department heads. In the in this case,
43:23you were using um folks that were going
43:26to be working directly with the city
43:28uh clerk. Um and I think if you were
43:30going to be hiring somebody for public
43:32works, it probably look like the
43:34basically the same team, maybe one or
43:35two others that would be different. And
43:38um bringing people from out of town to
43:41help uh with the evaluation of a city
43:43clerk
43:44under under under circumstances with the
43:4730 or 40 years of of experience that
43:49both the the uh Estrada and and Zabel
43:52have,
43:54it makes sense, you know, on on paper it
43:56makes sense. It's just the other stuff
43:58kind of kind of is
44:00but as as uh Mr. Galvan said, you know,
44:02we can't get too emotional about it. And
44:04then now we're at a spot where getting
44:06ready to do the uh
44:09the letter and a background check and go
44:12on from there. If I got that right. Um
44:17I think we just I think we just put the
44:19the the business of the who who enter
44:21does the interviews, I think we set that
44:23as into a separate little committee,
44:26maybe work it with rules, however you
44:27want to work it. And um let's sit down
44:30with the city manager and see if there
44:33could have been or would have been or
44:35can be a different way to handle these
44:36things, this particular hiring process.
44:39Dolan.
44:40Well, as one of seven, I would like to
44:43be involved in that also. So, if we're
44:46going to do a little committee again, I
44:48mean, we already voted on a committee
44:49that um
44:50your job, as I understood it and that's
44:52why I seconded it as soon as you
44:54finished talking, uh your job was to get
44:58with this company you mentioned and find
45:00them have them find us a city manager
45:03since we spent the last 11 months on
45:08wasting time that you
45:10talked about earlier. I thought by
45:13taking the initiative to get a very
45:15experienced
45:17person, two actually very experienced
45:20person, that possibly our interim city
45:24manager did not know,
45:26um I took the initiative to bring them
45:28forward. I think it was a big help for
45:30him. He was uh
45:33seeming to be
45:35uh quite upset about not being able to
45:38find a city manager or any uh
45:41the city clerk and I agreed with him
45:44there and I was told by the guy that
45:46hired or that uh brought Pat to us that
45:51if you're looking for a city manager,
45:54um it takes about 10 years to get
45:56experience enough to be a city manager
45:58in the first place. So, you better be
45:59looking long and hard because with all
46:01that's gone on here,
46:04you're not going to get the cream of the
46:05crop. You're going to get the bottom of
46:07the bucket. So, you better make it work.
46:10Um I think that by getting Pat in here
46:12was the biggest best thing to happen to
46:14this city for a long time.
46:17I think that his pick,
46:19I don't even know who it is. Um my
46:22intention of bringing those two forward
46:25and giving him Deb Estrada's um
46:29her resume was because I had experience
46:32of Deb Estrada and Britt Moore helping
46:34me during my high school teaching career
46:36and they were so organized and and knew
46:39exactly what had to be where and what
46:41had to be done. So, yeah, I thought that
46:44maybe Pat could use a little bit of help
46:46in that direction. I hope I didn't
46:48offend anybody by taking some initiative
46:50and trying to get this thing moving
46:51forward and and get us uh
46:54get us going again, back in a direction
46:57where we're actually doing things for
46:59the citizens of this community instead
47:01of worrying about oh, we got to give
47:03them another chance. We got to do this.
47:05We got to do that. I mean, to me it's
47:07getting a little bit out of hand. I
47:09yield back. Go ahead, Counselor Vasquez.
47:11Oh, yeah, I was just going to say as a
47:12one of seven, as Counselor Dolan says,
47:15um I actually disagree with forming a
47:17committee um for these conversations. I
47:19think that if they're going to be held,
47:20it should be held across the full
47:21council as a whole. I agree with that.
47:24I agree with that. And then just to to
47:27uh debunk um
47:28Counselor Galvan's and deputy mayor's um
47:32opinion of
47:33anyone getting emotional,
47:36um it's it's we're not I don't run
47:39things on emotion. It's it's
47:41practicality, right? And I think this is
47:44what this
47:45um dais has been missing is being very
47:48practical. And
47:51I've canvassed hundreds of doors across
47:55this community. Um Counselor Sottile
47:59along with me.
48:01You know, it's time for this council to
48:04start
48:07um taking into consideration
48:12community asks,
48:14um input, right, in our decision-making.
48:20Um
48:21and hence my continued push for us to
48:28establish some sort of process because
48:30we can't meddle in in the hiring and I
48:32get that, Julian. I want to I want to be
48:33really really clear that that's not what
48:35I'm trying to do, but it is my job to
48:37provide direction. And it is my job to
48:39provide direction coming off the heels
48:41of having so many conversations with
48:43community members. A community wants
48:45change. They want good positive change
48:48moving forward. They want to see us
48:52moving forward in a clear direction,
48:56community rooted direction, making sure
48:59that our job continues to center the
49:02needs
49:04and the input um and quite frankly the
49:08environment that this c-
49:10council and and and city hall and the
49:12police department, whatever it is uh
49:14Counselor Dolan, really needs in order
49:17to
49:19thrive.
49:20Um
49:22I I agree that these conversations have
49:24to happen amongst us. Um I don't think
49:26it's uh wise to go off into committee
49:29anymore. More conversations needs to
49:31happen on this dais. Um and it's not
49:33based on on on emotion. Um well, maybe
49:36it is based on emotion because I really,
49:39really, truly want
49:42the best for for this community. And I
49:45really, truly want the best for the
49:47environment of City Hall. And I really,
49:49truly want the best for the policy
49:53making and the decision making to be
49:55reflective of the people that voted us
49:56in.
49:58Um,
49:59and um, and people can call it
50:01emotional.
50:03Um, I call it doing my job.
50:05Uh, so
50:07again, I I'm I'm one of seven. I I I
50:10laid down the reservations that I had
50:13um, with the ongoing process and the
50:15people involved with the process
50:17and um, trying to provide some different
50:21direction for the city for the interim
50:23city manager.
50:25Um,
50:26it seems like council wants to go in a
50:28different direction and table this to
50:30bring back to maybe another strategy
50:32meeting or a workshop meeting.
50:35Um, so
50:36if that's going to be the desire of
50:40council, we can figure out where to fit
50:42that in, but I think establishing policy
50:45and direction and process and
50:47um, moving forward needs to happen
50:50um, immediately.
50:54Yep.
50:55And I do agree [clears throat] that um,
50:57that we should do this
50:58at this table at at this location and so
51:01that we can all be as as plain as we we
51:04can be. Um, coming up with how we want
51:07to do that too. So, um, but not to you
51:10know, this is a the job gets to you
51:13because you do get pretty passionate
51:15every each one of us has our passion for
51:18uh, whatever it is that reasons that we
51:20got on the city council and it's not
51:22because we wanted to have any glory. It
51:24has to do with the fact that what's best
51:26as you've said, what's best for the
51:28community and I absolutely agree with
51:30that. So,
51:32Okay.
51:35Go ahead, Council Dolan. I just want I
51:37think that Julia is right. I think um,
51:40we've gotten this far. Let's let's see
51:42what happens. I I uh, I'm probably one
51:45of the ones that gets a little emotional
51:46sometimes. I apologize. Um,
51:50but I do think that uh,
51:52you know, you don't hire a
51:55you don't hire a uh,
51:57somebody that bakes pastries to do brain
52:00surgery. So,
52:02you got to get the right people in the
52:04right spot and when you know people that
52:07know things,
52:08I mean, I don't I don't really know I
52:10was sitting in that meeting when
52:13when uh, you had the conflict that he
52:15mentioned. I I think that uh,
52:18that was just a matter of emotion again,
52:22but having worked with
52:25uh, both Deb Estrada and Deb Zabel,
52:29um, Deb Zabel a little bit. I didn't
52:31have a lot of time with her, but um,
52:34I think that those two gave us
52:36invaluable information and invaluable
52:38insight into what we need in the person
52:40that is going to do this job and if we
52:42can get that person for now, we can move
52:44on to
52:46new stuff and bigger and better stuff
52:48and
52:49you know, you watch that presentation
52:51tonight. I think that's a great way to
52:54start talking to those guys. I got a
52:56couple phone numbers. I said I was going
52:57to call them back and
52:59and see
53:01what uh,
53:03see what we could work out in the way of
53:05aerospace. I was pretty excited about
53:08that.
53:09So,
53:10I yield back.
53:15Okay. And and and just just so we don't
53:18sound dismissive of anybody who has a
53:20play to this to to to to these
53:23positions.
53:24Um,
53:25um, I'm I'm sure we had very many
53:27qualified in individuals. Um,
53:32you know, just going off of the comment
53:33of can't hire someone to do a baker to
53:37do neuro sign or brain surgery. I don't
53:38know what what was just said, but we we
53:41really don't want to be dismissive of
53:42the people that that applied and you
53:44know, I've heard other comments along
53:46the line of you know, we can't hire
53:47someone at McDonald's and um, I think
53:50you know, a lot of our our our jobs
53:52[clears throat] around here come with a
53:53lot you know, should should be enforced
53:55and looked at with people that are doing
53:57these jobs with dignity.
53:59Um, I do believe knowing knowing some
54:01people that did apply to these positions
54:04um, were were very, very, very well
54:05qualified who who didn't get um,
54:08called calls back. Um, but again, I'm
54:10not telling Pat that he should have
54:12hired this person and really just
54:15kicking myself for not establishing the
54:16process
54:17make it a lot more clear for him
54:19with the with um,
54:21the vision and direction
54:23that we needed.
54:25Um, so
54:28since um, I
54:30think I have a sense of where council
54:32wants to go. We we will probably have a
54:34conversation on working in
54:37um, some strategy building in terms of
54:41council priorities and vision and goals.
54:44So, do I understand you want to pass on
54:46this person right now?
54:47You don't want to hire this person? Move
54:49forward.
54:50>> No, we're not saying that at all. Okay.
54:52Well,
54:53I am we're not saying we want to pass on
54:56this person. I just think that setting
54:58some policies and looking at things is
55:00going to be a really clear mind with you
55:03know, all seven of us looking at it too
55:05to see what we can what we're looking
55:07for cuz
55:08remember, they're going to be working
55:09with us too and community.
55:12You know, and that's what's important.
55:15So, maybe I can
55:16>> we're we're we're not dead in the water
55:18if somebody comes in and they're
55:19bilingual. You know, we're not dead in
55:22the water. We've got plenty of people
55:24who can
55:25help us in other communities like Quincy
55:30filled in those gaps when they needed
55:32people.
55:34It's but it's a small version it's a
55:36small version. Gallery please.
55:39Quincy, I you know, please I
55:42I'm seven years in the Quincy. I know
55:44what
55:45the community is. It's just a small
55:47version of Sunnyside.
55:49Julia had a
55:50>> [clears throat]
55:50>> Yeah, I was just going to say
55:51for purposes of clarifying I think what
55:53you're trying to say going Order in the
55:55gallery.
55:57Order from the gallery.
55:59What I'm hearing I think is the next
56:01steps is the city manager will likely
56:03reach out and make the offer to this
56:04employee tomorrow because we've got them
56:06on the hook. Um, but going forward, the
56:09council has expressed a desire to have a
56:11workshop or something where they design
56:13policies and and practices and
56:15procedures going forward.
56:19Okay. Order from the gallery. Please
56:21please.
56:23Um,
56:24and
56:25yeah. And um,
56:27I I yeah, I just I want to end this
56:30conversation with um, really the there's
56:32there's
56:34an importance that we we need to
56:35definitely recognize um, when it comes
56:38to um, hiring bilingual staff in a
56:41community that's 86% you know,
56:44and where majority are of those of these
56:47almost majority of these households are
56:50are um,
56:53Please guys, I don't want to recess the
56:55meeting.
56:58If members are being disruptive, you can
56:59ask them to leave.
57:01Sorry, Julia.
57:03I was just going to say if if members of
57:04the audience I I can't hear them from
57:06here, but if they're being disruptive or
57:07interrupting your meeting, you can give
57:08them a warning and then ask them to
57:09leave.
57:12Were you going to say something? Oh,
57:13wait, I was cut off.
57:15Um,
57:17yes, we are. Um, but what I was going to
57:19leave that with is that
57:22you guys we it I mean, I it's it's super
57:25it's super important. We need to I mean,
57:27these are statistics. Data should be
57:29telling us what to do. So, I know that
57:32in Quincy, it worked one way, but it
57:35we live in a very particular community
57:38where where this is very important to
57:40the residents and it should be very
57:42extremely important to council and
57:44because it's important to council, it
57:45should be important for anyone sitting
57:48in the city manager role as they're
57:50conducting operations.
57:53I was [clears throat] just trying to
57:54explain that I'm familiar with
57:56communities like this. It's not
57:59completely identical, but it is a very
58:01small version
58:02of this community.
58:04Okay, one more and then we're moving on.
58:06I just to be clear, I guess this is we
58:10are planning to move forward as a
58:12permanent job offer.
58:14And
58:16this person is not not bilingual.
58:20None of the finalists
58:23were bilingual.
58:25And we selected the finalists based on
58:29their
58:31And
58:32you guys The staff that the staff that
58:35I'll go over the four
58:36interview committee if you want me to go
58:38over it. Vanessa,
58:41Really? Okay. Vanessa, as as me,
58:45Please.
58:47as Vanessa,
58:48>> They be given a warning.
58:50Vanessa, Hispanic, as me, Hispanic,
58:54myself and Heath.
58:57Cross gender,
58:59cross ethnicity,
59:01cross age,
59:03cross department.
59:08Okay. All right. It's a
59:12Yeah.
59:13Okay. Well, I did have a motion drafted
59:17up. I don't know if if if we want to do
59:19roll call on this. What is what is a
59:21what what is the desire of council?
59:26Go ahead, Deputy Mayor. Um, what I
59:28suggest [clears throat] is that we take
59:30this particular
59:32issue, take it into uh, either a
59:34workshop or begin We've talked several
59:37times about having a a strategic
59:39retreat. And we could talk about it
59:41there. And start talking about
59:45how we want things to look. And maybe
59:48that's where we can talk about it. But I
59:50think we're We've exhausted, I think,
59:52what we can do here without creating
59:55some strategies. And I think we've done
59:58the best that we can do looking for a
1:00:00unicorn. We haven't found that unicorn.
1:00:02Maybe that person's still out there and
1:00:04might just show up tomorrow. We don't
1:00:06know.
1:00:07But I think we At this point, I'd like
1:00:09to suggest that we
1:00:12table this and take bring it up at
1:00:15either a workshop or at a a strategic
1:00:17retreat.
1:00:20Yeah. I'll second that motion. Thank
1:00:22you.
1:00:23That's not
1:00:25>> Yeah. We have a I have a We Are we
1:00:27tabling the the whole process
1:00:30or can we
1:00:32Can you explain your
1:00:33>> I'm sorry. What What I'm wanting to
1:00:34table is the discussion about the
1:00:38procedure for
1:00:40This This is what my motion is. It's to
1:00:43table the
1:00:45the process that we've been talking
1:00:48about as far as how hiring
1:00:51boards are exam are put together and
1:00:53what direction the council wants to go.
1:00:55I think we should do that in a strategic
1:00:57retreat and or at a workshop. That's how
1:01:00Take pull back my other uh
1:01:03motion if that's all right with
1:01:05uh Ms. Vasquez. Yeah, that's fine. And
1:01:07so we agreed to move it to um
1:01:11just the process. We're not trying to
1:01:12say anything at all about what's been
1:01:14the person who may be hired or not. I'm
1:01:16just talking about the process and
1:01:17creating a different policy if need be.
1:01:21That's That's my the way on my
1:01:25If you want to second there, okay.
1:01:26>> motion on the table. Yeah. That's my
1:01:29motion.
1:01:30There's a second. Yes. Don't Mr. Dolan.
1:01:33The motion was to table the process.
1:01:35And come back to review with the
1:01:37strategic meeting. Dolan second.
1:01:41Seconded by Counselor Dolan?
1:01:43Okay. Is there a discussion?
1:01:46No discussion, but I just want to be
1:01:47clear that Pat's also clear that he will
1:01:50be moving forward with this process.
1:01:53Well, not till we set it.
1:01:55>> [laughter]
1:01:56>> You know I think she means the hire.
1:01:58Yeah, the hire. Since there's some
1:01:59confusion.
1:02:00>> Yeah, the hire. Yes.
1:02:02Whatever that goes. Okay.
1:02:04Well, two different things.
1:02:06>> the motion is is confusing. I mean
1:02:12No, I think
1:02:13the
1:02:14Okay. Why do you Okay, hold on. The
1:02:16motion is to table the process to come
1:02:19back to to revisit um within with
1:02:22council as a whole to reestablish
1:02:24priorities and conduct strategy around
1:02:29council city council priorities
1:02:31um to have them set in stone to then be
1:02:33able to provide more concrete and clear
1:02:36direction to the city manager.
1:02:39I think that's what she was alluding to.
1:02:41And when that's not giving direction to
1:02:43the city manager as to what to do with
1:02:45the with this
1:02:47hire.
1:02:47>> I don't think you guys need a motion for
1:02:49this process. I think what
1:02:52what I
1:02:53kind of what I mentioned before is I I
1:02:55think because the ship has already
1:02:56sailed on this particular candidate, the
1:02:58manager should go forward with hiring
1:03:00the candidate. But I'm understanding you
1:03:01all want to discuss further processes
1:03:04and procedures for say the next
1:03:06positions, which I think you can just
1:03:07simply do by saying let's add this to
1:03:09our next workshop agenda. Someone said
1:03:11tabling it earlier, so let's go with
1:03:14that.
1:03:14>> the floor to table is what I'm saying.
1:03:16There's not a policy in front of you
1:03:17necessarily. So it's just kind of if if
1:03:19this is something you council desires to
1:03:21work on in the future, you could just
1:03:23agree that it gets added to your next
1:03:25workshop agenda.
1:03:27Or just come to agreement to add that.
1:03:29Yeah. Let's do that. Can we do that?
1:03:31Let's do that.
1:03:33Okay.
1:03:34I think that's what we want to do. Okay.
1:03:36Moving on to item B. Okay.
1:03:39Um
1:03:41review
1:03:42review and possible action regarding the
1:03:43Ogden Murphy Wallace service contract.
1:03:46Um so at this time I'm going to take us
1:03:49We're going to go into executive
1:03:51session. Um pursuant to RCW 42.30.110
1:03:57subsection 1 sub-
1:03:59uh subsection I to discuss the legal
1:04:01counsel representing the agency matters
1:04:03relating to agency enforcement actions
1:04:05or to discuss with legal counsel
1:04:07representing the agency litigation or
1:04:08potential litigation to which the
1:04:10agency, the governing body, or a member
1:04:11acting in an official capacity is or is
1:04:13likely to become a party when public
1:04:15knowledge regarding the discussion is
1:04:16likely to result in an adverse legal or
1:04:18financial consequence to the agency.
1:04:21Um we're expected
1:04:24probably start with 15 minutes and then
1:04:27we will come back into regular session
1:04:31um
1:04:32and take action if action is needed.
1:04:36Madam Chair. So just to get this
1:04:38straight, we're going into executive
1:04:39session then coming back and discussing
1:04:41item B. That's the Okay.
1:04:44>> [cough]
1:04:46>> Part [clears throat] of the media, I'm
1:04:48getting comments from why there isn't uh
1:04:51live view
1:04:53out in the community. Um we weren't able
1:04:55to troubleshoot it. Um
1:04:58our IT wasn't able to
1:05:00to troubleshoot it. So um it's not live
1:05:03streaming right now.
1:05:11Isn't that ironic? Transparency coming
1:05:14from him. I have another attorney saying
1:05:15that uh
1:05:17there's been two motions and you won't
1:05:20and there was a a motion and a second
1:05:22on the very first motion that you guys
1:05:24made and seconded by Mrs. Vasquez. And
1:05:27your attorney said you don't need one,
1:05:28but you had a motion. You had a second.
1:05:31And there was no vote. Then there was
1:05:32another
1:05:34a motion and a second and still no vote.
1:05:37Counselor Hart withdrew.
1:05:40So with the attorney, that's how I think
1:05:41your attorney has has given you wrong
1:05:44advice when you have two motions and a
1:05:46second.
1:05:47>> [clears throat]
1:05:47>> Motion and a second and no vote. Who is
1:05:49talking from the forum? Why is that
1:05:52being allowed? The- There There's a
1:05:54community
1:05:56They're
1:05:57They're exiting They're exiting the
1:05:58room. Julian, they're They have concerns
1:06:01around motions. So I just I want to make
1:06:03sure that we're actually doing this
1:06:05correctly. Did Did we need to
1:06:07go back since there was a motion and a
1:06:09second even though we didn't need it?
1:06:11You didn't need it, but you probably to
1:06:12clean up the record you should withdraw
1:06:14that motion, but you don't need a motion
1:06:16to begin with. And I wasn't I know one
1:06:18was withdrawn. I don't know The first
1:06:21one. The first The first one was
1:06:22withdrawn, so there was only the first
1:06:24and the second. Then we decided you
1:06:25didn't necessarily need a motion. Um it
1:06:29it can fail by no vote.
1:06:31But It [clears throat] was failed by no
1:06:33vote then.
1:06:34>> Okay, so we should we go back to uh
1:06:36Counselor Hart's motion? She
1:06:39It already She withdrew the first one.
1:06:41She withdrew the first one.
1:06:43>> Right. Right. And then there was the
1:06:44second one and I kind of clarified. And
1:06:45there was no Yeah, there there we didn't
1:06:47conduct vote on the second one.
1:06:49>> Yeah, so it just fails.
1:06:50It just fails? Yeah. Yeah, you can
1:06:54Okay.
1:06:55Okay.
1:06:57I will take the advice.
1:06:59Thanks for helping us out on that,
1:07:00Julie.
1:07:03Okay.
1:07:04>> Okay. But we still need to clear the
1:07:05room for executive session.
1:07:09>> [clears throat]
1:07:09>> So um
1:07:11there. Until they all leave, someone has
1:07:12a question. Before that.
1:07:15Ooh. I'm voting. What she's talking
1:07:18I'll take that. Well, I'd like her to
1:07:20provide that for us.
1:07:24We have to build So we are um Oh, I see
1:07:27you mean.
1:07:27>> resuming back from executive session. Um
1:07:30there will be no action taken on
1:07:33executive session conversations.
1:07:36Um and we're resuming back at 7:59.
1:07:39But with that being said, we can go back
1:07:41to item B.
1:07:47Okay.
1:07:49So um
1:07:52I feel like I ethically have to
1:07:56do this. And of course it's a council
1:07:58decision.
1:07:59So um
1:08:01in good faith I I I must act on this
1:08:03because I don't feel that
1:08:08um given information that that that I
1:08:10know and given information that other
1:08:12council members know that we are going
1:08:13in the same direction as
1:08:15um as this firm.
1:08:17Um
1:08:18this could create a major hole,
1:08:21um but it doesn't mean that we work
1:08:22swiftly to make sure that we repair it.
1:08:25Um it's continuously what we do.
1:08:27Um I just want to move forward
1:08:30feeling like I have faith in the council
1:08:32that we are entrusting in to provide
1:08:35legal advice to all of us.
1:08:38And right now I don't feel like I'm
1:08:40there.
1:08:41So I will motion terminating the city's
1:08:44agreement with Ogden Murphy Wallace for
1:08:45cause effective immediately based on a
1:08:47breakdown in communication, lack of
1:08:49alignment with council direction, and
1:08:51inability to effectively support the
1:08:52council in carrying out its
1:08:54responsibilities, and directing staff to
1:08:56begin the process of securing new legal
1:08:58counsel.
1:09:00I have a motion.
1:09:02I will second that.
1:09:06Is there a discussion?
1:09:09I I I think you're making a big mistake.
1:09:12Um
1:09:13you're just digging ourselves back in
1:09:16the or the city back in you know in a
1:09:18bigger hole. So it's a a huge mistake
1:09:20that you want to
1:09:22you want to do this.
1:09:24I I it's uh I agree with George. I think
1:09:27that uh
1:09:28we're $2 million deficit right now and
1:09:31this is going to put us over the edge. I
1:09:33think it's a huge mistake and maybe we
1:09:35should all start looking for a job.
1:09:38Yeah.
1:09:40Um so
1:09:42I just think that maybe just because
1:09:44they're not always catering to what
1:09:46you're looking for, what you want mayor,
1:09:47this is not reason enough for us to
1:09:49terminate our city attorney and the
1:09:50firm. Um I am 100% in disagreement with
1:09:54this. Um to begin with, we've been
1:09:56losing so many great people. We've been
1:09:58We just lost our city clerk and
1:10:01now you want to fire our city attorney
1:10:05and for what reason? They've been
1:10:07helping us. Their firm has been doing so
1:10:09much for the city.
1:10:11If anything, they've been keeping us
1:10:12above water. With the city clerk being
1:10:14gone, they've been doing so much.
1:10:15They're up-to-date with all the things
1:10:18that are coming against the city,
1:10:19everything. They're up-to-date and it
1:10:21took them a long time to even catch
1:10:23up-to-date with everything that was
1:10:25going on. We cannot afford to lose them
1:10:27and
1:10:29if we do, then we're just going to dig
1:10:31ourselves in a deeper hole. We're going
1:10:32to get even more behind and I don't
1:10:33think we're in a position to get more
1:10:35behind than what we already are.
1:10:38Anybody else?
1:10:41I have to go to make sure everybody has
1:10:43a say.
1:10:47I don't have the I don't have nothing
1:10:49right now.
1:10:50Go ahead.
1:10:51I uh
1:10:53the contract I believe says and I don't
1:10:55have it here with me.
1:10:56The contract says that um this would be
1:10:58a 60-day notice.
1:11:01A termination without with without so uh
1:11:05It'll be a 60
1:11:09You can terminate with cause
1:11:11immediately. Mhm. Um
1:11:14or if you just uh want to terminate
1:11:16without cause, you have 60 days notice.
1:11:20With cause is 60 days notice. No, with
1:11:22cause
1:11:23>> Is immediate. is immediate. With Without
1:11:25cause is 60 days. Yeah, and and quite
1:11:29frankly, the cause that I've seen isn't
1:11:30cause enough in my opinion for me
1:11:32personally. I don't I'm not in agreement
1:11:34with this.
1:11:38It's the opinion of
1:11:40not many of us.
1:11:43Go ahead. Just to respond to Karen,
1:11:46maybe it's perspectives, but like I
1:11:48said, you know, I mean my thoughts with
1:11:52her responses were
1:11:54you know, not clear, I guess.
1:11:57I don't want to break any OPMA or
1:11:59whatever, but just not clear You know,
1:12:02and just as a reminder, you know, um
1:12:04Please let her finish. Yeah, that's
1:12:06that's just I don't I want to make sure
1:12:08I don't say more than I should.
1:12:10Thank you.
1:12:11Yeah, and you know, with that being
1:12:13said, um it's been said to us many
1:12:15times, you know, like the client is
1:12:17seven of us, not just one or two of us
1:12:19and
1:12:20at the end of the day, she has to keep
1:12:22all of us in mind, not just a few.
1:12:27And again, I'm I'm I'm going to state
1:12:29that um without uh breaking OPMA and
1:12:34conversations I have been had in in
1:12:36executive session,
1:12:38um it's unfortunate that you all believe
1:12:40that the reasons that were provided were
1:12:42not sufficient. Um I still I sit here
1:12:45and I I I I don't have any confidence um
1:12:49and
1:12:50you know, when I was talking earlier
1:12:51about moving the city in in a in a
1:12:53direction where we have confidence in
1:12:55one another
1:12:56um and we believe that people are being
1:12:58forthcoming and
1:13:00nobody's trying to
1:13:02sabotage or come in between process and
1:13:05work, then I hope that the city finally
1:13:08reaches that point. Um there's a lot of
1:13:10healing A lot a lot of healing that has
1:13:12to be done here and when um
1:13:15you mentioned that I say I a lot, but it
1:13:17it I I was not the only one.
1:13:20Um there was there was other people that
1:13:21had an opinion based on on fact. Um so
1:13:27I will also tread lightly on the
1:13:30on on the information that I'm talking
1:13:33about here in open session.
1:13:34Um so I will leave it at that and I'll
1:13:37I'll go to you and then I will initiate
1:13:39a roll call since there's a motion in a
1:13:41second.
1:13:43Under the debate class. Um I I you go
1:13:45ahead and put the microphone.
1:13:49Um
1:13:49>> [clears throat]
1:13:50>> and um
1:13:51and I've been privy to some of these
1:13:53conversations, too.
1:13:55And I've had questions as to perhaps
1:13:58misunderstanding that that um
1:14:01uh how the wording was going. It didn't
1:14:04seem to me that it was very
1:14:08the time the timeliness of the
1:14:10I still have issues with that. So I I
1:14:13understood what what um
1:14:16uh both uh my uh
1:14:19fellow councilwoman
1:14:20uh were talking about. So I I do feel
1:14:23like that we need to have a better
1:14:26understanding. I think that um
1:14:29I I There was some confusion and with
1:14:31that confusion became a series of of
1:14:34distrust regarding and the the the the
1:14:37emails that kept coming back getting
1:14:39changed. They kept saying the same
1:14:40thing, but I didn't feel like I was
1:14:43getting the right answers or answers I
1:14:46thought I should be getting. So that's I
1:14:49felt like that at least if if not
1:14:52termination or whatever, I think that
1:14:54certainly some sort of redirection of
1:14:56how things should be done coming back to
1:14:58the council or or being managed directly
1:15:01through the city manager at some point
1:15:03because
1:15:05it it
1:15:06I I don't like being in the legal
1:15:08business. That's not what I
1:15:10grew up to do
1:15:11and I I'm sorry that I feel that way.
1:15:15I can make a comment.
1:15:17>> [snorts]
1:15:18>> Uh this process was done once before
1:15:21here about a year ago
1:15:23and you had two
1:15:25two uh responses to your request for
1:15:28qualifications. One was Ogden Murphy
1:15:30Wallace and the other was uh Smith uh
1:15:34Melik from
1:15:36Idaho.
1:15:38You do run the risk of nobody applying.
1:15:42Well Unless you want to give it to the
1:15:44Idaho guy. I was next. There's many
1:15:46risks that we run.
1:15:48Go ahead. Um
1:15:50How many attorneys work for Ogden
1:15:53Murphy Wallace?
1:15:56Oh, I I don't have the the total count
1:15:59off my head, but we probably are up
1:16:02around 70 now. We've got
1:16:0612 13 maybe 15 municipal attorneys.
1:16:10We've got five currently handling your
1:16:12public records.
1:16:13Um and then you've seen Heidi and and
1:16:15Drew and I doing some things.
1:16:18Um so there's probably seven or
1:16:21and then one of them's doing litigation
1:16:23for you guys. So we have seven staffed
1:16:26to you right now.
1:16:28Are you a senior partner? Yes.
1:16:31So
1:16:33um
1:16:34how many do you have do I guess my
1:16:37question would be
1:16:39could we uh have someone take your spot
1:16:42and is our uh
1:16:44No.
1:16:45Uh no, I I've had that conversation um
1:16:48before with with um some of my other
1:16:50municipal practitioners. They're
1:16:53they're all from the west side. They all
1:16:55have large cities over there as well. Um
1:16:57this was bid a specific way given the
1:16:59the pool available and the experience
1:17:01level. Um we just
1:17:04you your needs are too complex for an
1:17:06associate um and so it would
1:17:10the other partners are
1:17:12Okay, thank you.
1:17:13>> are busy, so Um Go ahead and finish.
1:17:16Daily or Mr.
1:17:19city manager
1:17:20interim city manager um
1:17:23I guess my my question is you gave me
1:17:25some numbers at one point a while back.
1:17:28Uh your estimate of what it would cost
1:17:32if we were to release this company.
1:17:36Can you go back over that again? Do you
1:17:38Do you remember your Could we Could we
1:17:40keep the comments relevant to the motion
1:17:42that's on the table? The motion right
1:17:43now that we're entertaining and there
1:17:44was a there was a second. Is
1:17:47uh the motion to terminate the city's
1:17:49agreement with Ogden Murphy Wallace.
1:17:51There's been a second and it Mayor, I
1:17:54know that I I heard the motion. I'm
1:17:57still You're still discussing. Um I
1:18:00still have the floor. But I I I don't
1:18:02need to acknowledge you if you're not
1:18:04keeping the comment germane to the
1:18:06motion.
1:18:07The motion is to terminate. I'm trying
1:18:09to establish the cost of the
1:18:11termination.
1:18:13The cost of the termination
1:18:14>> of the city of terminating this group is
1:18:16is going to be very large and I don't
1:18:18think you realize what's going to happen
1:18:20after that.
1:18:21Could you uh continue?
1:18:25Mr. Aley.
1:18:26Well, to be sure, there will be a
1:18:29significant cost to bring another
1:18:31attorney firm up to speed on all of the
1:18:34issues that are currently under
1:18:36consideration. I don't have an exact
1:18:38number. I did ask another attorney uh
1:18:41this weekend
1:18:43and he said it is very expensive. I
1:18:45mean, that's a relative term, so
1:18:48I I don't have a number to that.
1:18:50Go ahead, Councilwoman
1:18:51>> I yield back. I have a question. So how
1:18:54was this even possible to ask already
1:18:56and do Did somebody already have this in
1:18:57plan where he was going she was going to
1:19:00the attorney was going to be gone if
1:19:01somebody's already asking questions
1:19:02about it?
1:19:03And second, you're asking Julie if
1:19:05somebody else can cover for her. Why
1:19:07would you ask her that question? Isn't
1:19:08that you don't also trust her?
1:19:10You talking to me?
1:19:11>> Yeah.
1:19:13I It's not that I don't trust her. It's
1:19:15that I want to get the best we can get
1:19:18for our buck and when I see the rates
1:19:20that we're paying
1:19:22them, I was a little bit surprised
1:19:25because I don't know
1:19:27how we're paying for someone to sit in
1:19:30on these meetings and then not even
1:19:31address the attorney about anything.
1:19:34And you know, I don't quite understand
1:19:37spending that money.
1:19:39So, for me it was mostly money. I I
1:19:41think she's been doing a good job as far
1:19:43as being
1:19:45um
1:19:47what's the word? I I I think she's
1:19:50covered all the bases. When she tells me
1:19:52things, um
1:19:54I ask a lot of questions. I think that
1:19:57uh attorneys need to be
1:20:00I mean, everything needs to be on record
1:20:02and I think she has that for you and
1:20:04you'll find out that this is going to be
1:20:06a very very expensive thing
1:20:09and our
1:20:11city insurance will probably say, "Well,
1:20:13well, this is this is too much. We're
1:20:15going to
1:20:16we're going to have to let you go."
1:20:18So, take that into take that into
1:20:20consideration is all I'm saying and I
1:20:22yield back. Okay.
1:20:24I thought it was you talking.
1:20:26>> I'll go ahead and and initiate a roll
1:20:28call and if it dies, it dies.
1:20:31And if it mo- if the motion carries, it
1:20:33carries and we deal with with the
1:20:34repercussions just like every other
1:20:36decision that this council has done
1:20:38dealing with repercussions.
1:20:40Yeah, and just
1:20:41>> Um
1:20:43Yeah, and just to reiterate, I don't
1:20:44think this calls for termination right
1:20:46now at the moment. There's there's a
1:20:48second and
1:20:49>> Yeah, no, of course.
1:20:50Go ahead, counselor Chaves.
1:20:52Yes.
1:20:57Sessati. Yes.
1:21:00Do uh
1:21:01Vasquez. No.
1:21:04Dolan. No.
1:21:07Galvan. No.
1:21:10Hart.
1:21:12Abstain.
1:21:16And I
1:21:17vote yes.
1:21:19The if the tie
1:21:21Motion fails.
1:21:25Motion
1:21:26fails. Fails.
1:21:40And just
1:21:43And uh
1:21:44of um
1:21:46you know, I really do hope that
1:21:47collectively what what when do we
1:21:49pre-formulate some sort of common
1:21:51conviction amongst all of us.
1:21:53Um that draws a conclusion to to our
1:21:56meeting.
1:21:57And without further business
1:22:00anything good for the order
1:22:02the meeting is adjourned
1:22:04at
1:22:058:30 p.m.

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