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226: Menno Henselmans - Everything you ever wanted to know about Genetics — Transcript

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0:00[Music]
0:08hi guys
0:09welcome to the revive stronger podcast
0:11i'm your host as always steve hall and
0:12today i am joined by menno henselmans
0:15it's been a while meno
0:16it's really good to have you back uh how
0:18are things going on your end you've been
0:20how many different countries you've been
0:21in the last six months
0:23well not as many as usual because of the
0:26whole pandemic thing but still
0:30a couple we got stuck in the u.s um
0:33our visa waivers expired um and then
0:37we went to sweden so i've now been here
0:40three months or so so only two and um
0:44yeah sweden is open and uh it's a stable
0:46life which was a very welcome change
0:48but um i know that uh your uh
0:51subscribers also know mike isrtel
0:53so i was actually neighbors with mike
0:54espertel last uh or before the
0:57last two months the three months or so
0:59before that uh and that was awesome
1:01so at least something good came out of
1:03the whole thing yeah that is good
1:05and yeah i mean sweet i had a couple of
1:07clients in sweden and i know they
1:09haven't shut down the entire time
1:11so it's probably a night it's a smart
1:12place to go move to
1:14yeah it's uh completely open even though
1:16things like people say i have natural
1:18social distancing it's like i meet
1:20probably 100 people a day just to get to
1:22the gym and then i have to
1:23wait for equipment in the gym uh i walk
1:26through a crowded library
1:28on the way to the gym because it's the
1:29same building so yeah there's
1:31i mean there is there are regular
1:33guidelines but
1:34uh it's if you didn't know quran existed
1:36and you were planted in sweden right now
1:38you would not know that's crazy okay
1:41well today we wanted to talk about
1:43genetics uh because i know
1:45saying to meno it's come up many times
1:47on the podcast but i don't think it has
1:49kind of been a dedicated episode that's
1:51really gone into
1:52genetics surrounding kind of physique
1:54endeavors because i think it's important
1:55to
1:55obviously i think people listen to this
1:57are going to expect that but it's
1:58important to know that
1:59genetics impact a lot of things and i
2:01guess a lot of things actually impact
2:03physique endeavors but
2:04um yeah that's what i want to kind of go
2:06into with that in depth with meno and i
2:08know
2:08you've spoken about it on various
2:10podcasts you've got kind of articles
2:12referencing it so i think you'd be a
2:13great resource to talk about it and
2:15i actually wanted to start off with
2:17something that maybe um
2:18people aren't expecting and kind of kick
2:20off with something interesting was like
2:22is there any common misconceptions
2:25around
2:25genetics that you find like especially
2:27obviously surrounding physique sports
2:30um i think one of the biggest ones
2:33probably is
2:34heart gainers there's a common id of
2:37the offers of i think braun which was a
2:40very popular series and
2:42um a couple of other lines of
2:45people that have the idea that
2:47hardgainer should do
2:48low volume and there's actually a
2:50substantial
2:52literature now that uh indicates people
2:55that are
2:56not responsive to a certain training
2:57program like non-responders
2:59they're called they they're not
3:01responding to that program but they
3:03probably need
3:04a greater stimulus and there's also
3:06definitely some research indicating some
3:07people need a lower
3:08stimulus like less stress but most
3:12research finds that
3:13people that don't respond they do
3:14respond if you just up the volume
3:16so they just have a higher threshold
3:17they need more of a stimulus more or
3:19stress to get the body's adaptation
3:21processes going basically
3:23and for a lot of people that means that
3:25if you're like if you're doing low
3:26volume
3:27and you're not making any gains then
3:29probably
3:30your first step of experimentation
3:32should be increased volume not to
3:34stick with like low volume because
3:36that's where a lot of people i think
3:37just get
3:38stuck like the idea that they're not
3:40making good progress so you need low
3:42volume and then they stick with low
3:43volume and therefore they're not making
3:44good progress and then you just
3:46flatline yeah i think it's one of those
3:48things where
3:49the average program out there is based
3:51around the average individual so
3:53if you go and do that and it's you're
3:54not really seeing gains
3:56a lot of people will think i don't know
3:58if you if it's too much for you for some
4:00people or the other way it's easy just
4:01like oh yeah it's obvious it's too too
4:02much but i think for
4:03some people they might think are like
4:06they don't think to do more
4:07it's not normally kind of something i
4:09mean maybe now as more information is
4:11coming out about volume they'll start
4:12doing that so no very interesting
4:14because i think yeah a lot of people
4:15think hard gainers and
4:17low volume tends to go hand in hand so
4:19yeah great i i think
4:20the question i wanted to open up with
4:22after that was kind of
4:24the fact that obviously we're ultimately
4:25very very similar in our genetic makeup
4:27but
4:28kind of what role does genetics play
4:31then
4:32if like people think are weird like 99.9
4:34similar
4:35kind of how much of a role can genetics
4:37really play and maybe
4:39i don't know if you can put a percentage
4:40to it or you can compare it to like high
4:42quality nutrition
4:44high quality training sleep that sort of
4:45thing where does genetics like
4:47lay in kind of comparison to everything
4:49else yeah we can actually there are two
4:52ways to put a percentage on it
4:53um the the first uh or the second one
4:57i discussed is heritability studies uh
4:59and the first is
5:00uh uh literal genetic makeup
5:03and if you look at that like literally
5:05looking at how similar are our
5:07dnas then they are exceedingly similar
5:10but that provides a very deceptive
5:13uh or deceiving idea of how similar we
5:15are because if you look at like a bona
5:16mo
5:17uh bonobo wonky uh or chimp they're also
5:20exceedingly similar and in fact even if
5:22you look at like a ring worm
5:24uh they're quite similar and that that
5:26makes sense in the sense that
5:27many of the little things we care about
5:29are like
5:30the fine-tuning of the fine-tuning in
5:32terms of how our bodies work you know
5:33like
5:34how do you respond to higher versus
5:36lower resistance training stimulus
5:38if you compare that to things like how
5:41does vision work
5:42yeah or how does how do our metabolic
5:44processes work you know the
5:46the idea that we uh have a species with
5:49male and female gender
5:50for example those things those are very
5:52big primal features emotional regulation
5:55those things you know those are like the
5:57big picture things genetically speaking
5:59so
6:00you know the fact that we're like 99.99
6:03similar even that would be um could mean
6:06that there are actually profound
6:07differences
6:08in how we respond to exercise and
6:09nutrition so i think the
6:12heritability studies are a better way to
6:15to get an idea of
6:16you know percentage wise how much do our
6:18genetics matter relative to other things
6:20and it seems uh have been a couple
6:23reviews on this and a meta-analysis
6:25not too long ago it looks at across the
6:28whole population
6:30it's about 50 percent uh if you look at
6:33like how strong is someone it appears to
6:35be about 50
6:36genetics versus 50 everything other than
6:39genetics
6:40now that seems somewhat high but it's
6:43actually not
6:44if you consider that that's the other 50
6:46is like
6:47everything so this is like mostly
6:49untrained individuals
6:51like many recreational athletes and
6:52stuff but very few bodybuilders
6:54you know because the sample this is like
6:56all population type
6:58samples so if you compare
7:01um if you only get 50 even in the
7:04strength levels
7:05between you know just two random persons
7:07off the street
7:08and you compare them with like
7:09bodybuilders or power lifters
7:11and you see there is a huge difference
7:13between those so that means that when
7:15you're comparing
7:16that then it would be way way below 50
7:19so if you're comparing people that
7:21already do strength training then you're
7:23getting
7:23to the range where compared to untrained
7:25individuals it's
7:27by far how much exercise in everything
7:30we do and i think
7:31that's also something most pts can
7:33readily attest to like
7:35almost anyone can make progress like
7:36basically anyone really can get lean
7:39uh or 100 everyone can get lean everyone
7:42can get stronger some people have a hard
7:44time building muscle but there's
7:46they can always build some and i found
7:48for a lot of people it just comes slower
7:50but the end result is actually not too
7:52dissimilar
7:54um so yeah you know percentage-wise uh
7:57below 50 we can say for sure we can't
7:59say like an exact number but
8:01it's clear that well basically everyone
8:03can profoundly change
8:04their physique strength level body fat
8:06percentage i really like that
8:08i like starting on a positive because
8:10like
8:11people often i think i don't know people
8:13that seek out topics like this they're
8:14almost looking for like a confirmation
8:16that they are
8:17never going to be as jacked as what they
8:19should they look at like the extreme
8:21cases of ronnie coleman
8:23yeah and uh andy bolton those are like
8:25famous cases
8:26where uh i think andy bolton was like he
8:29squad at 300 or even 400 i think it was
8:31300 pounds
8:32uh and benched something similar like
8:34the first time he tried it
8:36was like the last of the gm thought i
8:38lifted before but no
8:41yeah that may be because you know you
8:42were as strong
8:44to start with some people get after 10
8:46years of lifting maybe that has
8:47something to do with it you know
8:49but that's like you know the genetic
8:50trigger that the point zero zero zero
8:52zero one percent population that ends up
8:55you know being competitive at the world
8:56level and that's the question actually
8:59you kind of talked about how um some
9:01people
9:02potentially like you end up at the same
9:04point even somewhere might get someone
9:05might get there sooner than you
9:07but you might just trickle on over a
9:09period of time and
9:10kind of the question i was wanting to
9:11ask is how do you know
9:13how good your genetic genetics are do
9:15you is there like a certain length of
9:16time you can be
9:17kind of nailing your nutrition and
9:19training and no kind of uh
9:20after a year if i've gained this much
9:22then yeah i'm this way inclined or
9:25is it a case of like you need more time
9:26to actually let these things come to
9:28kind of fruition yeah i mean you get
9:31some id
9:31generally but the problem is always that
9:34you only know how you reacted to what
9:36you did
9:37so the fact that you even like after a
9:39year of doing
9:40everything right by like what the
9:42average population should do you know
9:44like
9:45a volume at like 15 cents per muscle
9:47group per week or something you have
9:48protein intake 1.8 grams those kind of
9:50things
9:51and you think like this is what it
9:54should be and i'm not responding so my
9:55genetics suck but it may just mean
9:57you need you know 25 cents per muscle
9:59group or maybe
10:00you know 10 or 5. that's also possible
10:03but
10:04less plot less probable so
10:07uh that's that's always very tricky uh
10:09but overall if you
10:10you can get some ideas especially if
10:11someone said it's hard with high effort
10:13because that's that's a huge factor as
10:14well i see in a lot of people
10:15and as you say like
10:18it's it feeds on itself like if you have
10:20core results
10:21with effort that's maybe not 100 all the
10:24time and that
10:25makes you even less motivated and
10:27therefore you give you less effort like
10:29i said you don't try higher volumes and
10:30those kind of things then um
10:33it's still fulfilling in a part yeah
10:36yeah i was gonna it's i guess
10:40the question i had following that was um
10:43and we
10:43almost answered it in that can you
10:45become elite without
10:47kind of having good genetics can someone
10:49just work
10:51and find what works for them and do it
10:53for a long period of time and can they
10:55get to that top level if they don't have
10:56those
10:57pristine genetics that like i don't know
10:59andy bolton or someone has
11:00right so there are um
11:04there are some indicators you can use to
11:06to see if you
11:07you're likely to become a lead and frame
11:10size is probably the biggest one like i
11:11have a calculator on my website that
11:13builds on like best work we have on this
11:15fat-free mouse index looks at like your
11:17especially wrist
11:18and ankle size which is an indicator of
11:19how big your bone structure is
11:21and quite simply puts your bone
11:23structure is like um
11:25uh it's your frame it's like the uh
11:29your wardrobe or how do you say this
11:30what you put clothes on like a clothing
11:32hanger yeah or uh
11:34there's a word for it like a thing that
11:35you stand up you put clothes on a
11:37clothes horse or i don't know
11:38i'm not sure yeah something you know
11:40like it's like like a wardrobe or
11:42a closet if you have a bigger frame you
11:44can you can put more
11:46uh clothes or in our case muscle mass
11:47around it like a very small frame like
11:49you're very small hands
11:50there's you know that's just the limit
11:52especially for things like grip size
11:54just the size of your hands it's like a
11:56really big limiting factor
11:58like you you can have the super strong
11:59muscles but if your hands just aren't
12:01that big
12:02then you know you're probably not going
12:03to be the world's best power lifter or
12:04strong man especially
12:06so your frame size is a big big factor
12:09that's like significant across many
12:10things and then there are a few things
12:11like
12:12androgenic traits that have like like
12:14weak correlations
12:16um but you generally do see like if you
12:18look at the elites
12:19and part of this spiralization from
12:20energetic steroid usage
12:22you do see that they're all like square
12:25jaw um
12:27big frame size they look masculine you
12:29know you
12:30basically never see an elite athlete uh
12:33in almost any kind of sport that's like
12:35remotely related to strength
12:36that looks like uh you look at them are
12:38like oh yeah is that a is that a
12:40guy or a girl you know so even aside
12:42from muscle mass so they're
12:44like elite athletes are typically
12:45masculine um and if this goes for both
12:48genders like
12:49the women also typically look slightly
12:51more yeah
12:52um masculine like still
12:55possibly female um but you know more on
12:57the because it's a
12:58spectrum you know for both genders and
13:01you'd actually be surprised in research
13:02how difficult it can be
13:03to tell a person's gender if you strip
13:06away
13:06all makeup and hair especially like
13:09they've done experiments like that and
13:11you can do something in psychological
13:12research yeah you can see it uh it's
13:14surprisingly hard because you think like
13:17of course you can you can always tell
13:18like there's
13:19even borderline cases are always like
13:21you kind of know but
13:22uh but no especially if you strip away
13:24the hair and makeup and things that we
13:26culturally do to make ourselves more
13:27masculine or
13:28um or feminine uh no it's actually it
13:31can be pretty hard
13:33but in any case there are some quirky
13:35ones too like your 2d 40 ratio which is
13:37the ratio of the
13:38size of your uh fingers um and it
13:42basically means that if your your ring
13:43finger is really long
13:44compared to your index finger the that's
13:48funny enough one of those stranger than
13:50uh fiction things
13:51it's correlated pretty strongly with
13:53prenatal testosterone exposure so you
13:55got a lot of testosterone influx in the
13:56womb
13:57and that correlates you know it's it's
13:59it's like a few percent variance of
14:01explanatory power but it correlates with
14:03sumo wrestling success general uh
14:05aggressiveness
14:07sports athletic ability um
14:10wikipedia actually has a super good
14:11overview on it even things like the
14:14chance of being homosexual and the
14:16chance of if you are homosexual
14:18um especially for i think women if you
14:20are more butch or femme
14:22so you know this is definitely like not
14:24if you have long fingers you're gonna be
14:26like
14:27uh you're a lesbian and you're in your
14:29boots you know but
14:30uh it's like if you get a thousand
14:32people like you have some idea of
14:34discriminating
14:35uh between who's who so uh that's really
14:39uh
14:39interesting i think like super super
14:41quirky like why would that
14:42yeah but it's just nature sometimes uh
14:45you get correlations like that that
14:46actually are robust
14:48um other than that yeah it's it's mostly
14:51a matter of
14:51experimentation like you you have some
14:54id but you have
14:55people like dorian yates you know was
14:57didn't look like much
14:59when he started um but you know became
15:01one of the most famous bodybuilders of
15:03all time
15:03part of that course response to drugs
15:05but um
15:06i've heard that he was also really
15:08strong already
15:09like quite early in his training before
15:11he started using gear
15:14so yeah some people you don't you don't
15:17think they just don't look like
15:18it um but there's still a chance you you
15:21can get to the elite level but generally
15:22speaking
15:23um the elite state the actual elites
15:25like if you're gonna set world records
15:27you you know pretty so yeah that's
15:30really interesting because i think
15:31i mean when i'm thinking about
15:32bodybuilders and i think about i mean
15:34good bodybuilding genetics is a bit
15:35different to just
15:36good muscle building genetics because
15:38like having small wrists small ankles
15:40good muscle bellies they all are super
15:43important for good
15:44bodybuilding but not necessarily like
15:46the small ankles and small kind of
15:48wrists and things like that don't
15:49necessarily lead to
15:51the most muscle growth so i think
15:53potentially i guess i i theorize i don't
15:55know if what you think meno
15:56some guys who do well early in their
15:58bodybuilding career
15:59could be those who have that type
16:02whereas someone who has like big
16:03thick joints and everything they might
16:05not do so well early in their career but
16:06like later down the line when they've
16:08actually seen through their genetics in
16:09a sense their potential
16:11they might be much better down the line
16:12i don't know if that does that does that
16:14make sense
16:15yeah you see some of those things i
16:17think the biggest sort of trend i see is
16:19that
16:20um the people who have it genetically
16:22easiest uh
16:23actually work the uh the least hard
16:27and this is like one of those things
16:30where a lot of
16:30if you look at like top athletes and i
16:32think bodybuilders are
16:34generally the exception because you have
16:35to be so disciplined
16:37to be a high level bodybuilder um and
16:39powerlifting and strongman
16:41not as much as bodybuilding because of
16:43the diet factor but still
16:45pretty disciplined and hardcore compared
16:47to say soccer
16:49like if you look at top soccer players
16:52not hating on soccer
16:53per se but if you look at the level of
16:57in considering how much money is
16:58involved you look at how
17:01informed are their coaches about
17:02nutritional programming about exercise
17:04science
17:05uh or or even like things like base
17:08stats are using
17:09data driven methods to uh like if you've
17:11seen the movie money ball
17:13i love that movie that's they go into
17:15how you can use data like for soccer for
17:17example you would think that if someone
17:18takes a penalty
17:20then they have data on like every
17:21athlete who uh how many penalties do
17:24they score what's the percentage of
17:25penalties that they get
17:26like do they go left or right the
17:28goalkeeper should also definitely be
17:29informed of those stats you know
17:31because at high level for many uh
17:33players they kick so fast that
17:35it's basically random choice like you
17:37just have to guess you can't respond
17:39so you should you would think the
17:41goalkeeper is always informed of those
17:43stats
17:43no like many urls
17:47they're barely informed of exercise
17:49science nutritional program design
17:51the players you often hear of them like
17:53binge drinking at the olympics
17:56using cocaine and those kind of things
17:58and if you compare that to a bodybuilder
18:00who spends time
18:01even before they've you know the six
18:03months before the crap everything
18:04they've done that and then the six month
18:06prep is paying attention to their diet
18:07the peak week all of those things
18:09you know that's the level of dedication
18:11is so vastly uh
18:14bigger for for bodybuilding than for
18:16soccer like on average
18:18that uh yeah it's crazy fast efficient
18:20fat loss does that sound like music to
18:22your ears the mini cup movement
18:23might just be for you mini cuts are like
18:26robbing the fat bank you want to get in
18:27and out with as much fat as possible
18:29in a short period of time you could
18:31easily look to lose 6 to 12 pounds of
18:33fat
18:34the mini cup movement is excellent
18:36there's group support for extra
18:37accountability
18:38and also expert help within the group we
18:41have educational videos to keep you on
18:43track along the way
18:44and you get all your nutrition and
18:45training customized and individualized
18:47for you
18:48so if that sounds of interest get
18:50involved with the mini cup movement
18:52and is actually of interest is your work
18:55ethic
18:56genetically like determined as well
18:58somewhat genetically determined because
18:59i think a lot of people think of it as a
19:01separate thing to genetics but
19:03do you like something hard yeah so there
19:06is actually quite some research
19:08that uh the drive to exercise also has a
19:11strong genetic component
19:13and that's a little bit more difficult
19:17to
19:18to measure in a person because you know
19:19it goes into what like what what is free
19:21will
19:22like because you can go to the gym like
19:24anyone
19:25you know you're physically capable like
19:26you can tell right now and if they want
19:28to they can go to the gym
19:29but they sometimes they just don't want
19:31to
19:32and that seems to also be genetically
19:34determined like if you look at
19:35heritability studies of twins and the
19:37like um certain factors just
19:40there's a limited to what you can do and
19:42i've also found that as a pt i think
19:43every pt knows like there are some
19:45people
19:45you basically cannot help or
19:49it's it's a matter of time for most
19:52people you can make a very big
19:54difference with
19:54three factors that's fostering
19:57competence
19:58relatedness and autonomy those are the
20:00three factors that drive
20:02intrinsic motivation and happiness both
20:04and they're
20:05you know in many ways kind of the same
20:06construct so if you
20:08as a pt i think that's part of my
20:10approach you make them
20:12good at what they're doing so they know
20:14they know what to do they know how to
20:15cut they know how to die you know how to
20:16train
20:17a good exercise technique you know how
20:19to make a meal plan all of those things
20:21um you make them related to what they're
20:24doing
20:25so you need some kind of community
20:28or a relationship and you need to know
20:31that
20:32and this is often a problem for people
20:33that face social pressure because they
20:35feel that
20:36they are not related enough to the iron
20:38game or sports or
20:40bodybuilding or competing or you know
20:42they have a lot of other people in their
20:43life that
20:44don't understand them and they don't
20:46know
20:47um why they have to be so different
20:50from everyone else and you can get
20:52around that to a large extent if you
20:53have like a community or people that
20:55support you
20:56um and crossfit for example does this
20:58really well you know it's like it's not
21:00uh training to look good it's functional
21:02training
21:04and you have group classes so you're not
21:07in it alone
21:08and you know you call it crossfit it's
21:10like its own separate thing
21:12you all have the paleo diets which is
21:14now like
21:16you know a little bit more disentangled
21:17or keto but you all have like the same
21:19kind of lifestyle community and
21:20it's all about ancestral living and
21:22paleo and like functional training and
21:23those kind of things
21:25so they're really good at creating
21:26relatedness that's a big aspect i think
21:28of crossfit success so
21:30it makes people motivated because it
21:32creates a bond
21:33with exercise and dieting
21:35[Music]
21:37and then the last one is autonomy you
21:39need to make them
21:40autonomous so this goes hand in hand i
21:43think with competence
21:44to a large extent for us because they
21:46they need to be able to do it themselves
21:48that's also why for example in my
21:49coaching i find that i don't check up
21:51much on clients unless i have reason to
21:53believe
21:54that they um they need the checkup like
21:56for example their life is
21:58i know their lives in like really rough
21:59spots for example or
22:01i know there's something um yeah you
22:03know if you have some reason to believe
22:04that
22:05they need checking up but otherwise it
22:07can actually work better i find in many
22:09cases
22:10if they for example don't check in for
22:11like two weeks and then they sent you an
22:12email like oh damn i forgot to check up
22:15uh this is what went wrong for example
22:17and then it comes from themselves
22:18and then it fosters intrinsic motivation
22:21much more because they learn from it
22:22whereas you're constantly checking up on
22:25them um i found it works for some people
22:28but for others it's basically abandoned
22:31because you you don't make the most of
22:32us
22:33yeah it makes a lot of sense and i guess
22:35it's um
22:37atomic habits you probably have you read
22:39that book yeah
22:40yeah so that's i i always think about
22:42like habits and how
22:44well for myself and i probably saying
22:45for you meno you do a lot of stuff
22:47without thinking about it and if someone
22:48wants to look from the outside in it
22:49what you do every day they're like oh my
22:51god like
22:51you are engineered for that physique
22:54whereas we're just like
22:55oh i just do this out of like just
22:58there's no kind of um
22:59we don't have to think about it and yeah
23:01kind of ingraining those habits and kind
23:03of
23:03having the community and everything and
23:05i guess social media has been great
23:07in a sense for bodybuilding for that
23:08because there has been that kind of
23:10community building and kind of
23:11people can get into it and even things
23:13like online forums and stuff
23:14yeah and obviously we talked about
23:18the muscle building side which i'm
23:20probably going to come back to in terms
23:21of
23:22the fat loss side kind of does that get
23:24impacted by genetics i know you said
23:26like everyone can get lean
23:27i know from observing at least
23:29bodybuilders some people just get like
23:31those striated glutes and all through
23:32the rear and it's just like
23:34wow are there some people that just i
23:37don't know more people
23:38who get either potentially more reward
23:40from food and so they're just that more
23:42food focused you get those people who
23:43are just like oh
23:44i can give or take food and then also i
23:46guess people who can diet or more
23:48and those spend thrift kind of
23:50metabolisms um
23:51yeah how much of that is do you think
23:53that plays a role into things
23:56not nearly as much as muscle growth for
23:59because basically everyone can get lean
24:02but for some people it's harder
24:03and for muscle growth we have like four
24:05bodybuilders we're like looking for the
24:07max
24:08so i mean for body fat percentage as
24:10well but the max is essential body fat
24:12levels so
24:13we know how to get to the max already
24:15and for muscle growth it's you know we
24:17always want to get bigger
24:19and there's just a limit on how much
24:21muscle you can build naturally
24:23so it varies in between individuals
24:25where that point is and then you know
24:27if you're there then that's that's the
24:29end of the road
24:30but for for fat loss like especially
24:32because most people don't need to be in
24:33the unsustainably low zone
24:35uh everyone can get like six-pack lean
24:37pretty much for some people it's harder
24:39to maintain it as well but everyone can
24:42get there
24:43and it's also much easier because the
24:44two big factors are like
24:46the biggest factors are your energy
24:49expenditure so you're basically your
24:51metabolic speed if you have fast
24:52metabolism and your hunger level
24:55and those things correlate so that makes
24:58it
24:58not much of an issue because people that
25:00have very high metabolic rates typically
25:02also have more hunger
25:04and then it looks like oh they can diet
25:06on 3000 calories it must be so easy
25:08but they are also hungrier than you earn
25:10so it's actually just as hard for them
25:13to be on 3 000 calories as it is for you
25:15potentially to be on 2000 calories
25:18i find that it does especially with
25:20social eating events 3000 is a little
25:22easier because you just have
25:23a bigger buffer like if you eat a kilo
25:25of broccoli
25:26like you have a lot of room to
25:28compensate for that and if you
25:29kick off broccoli you you have to build
25:311200 calories that's actually a big
25:33chunk of calories
25:34so in practice it makes a little bit of
25:36a difference but
25:38overall um the big factor is that
25:40because those factors correlate
25:42it's not nearly as impactful and things
25:44like just your base metabolic rate
25:46really doesn't mean much in terms of how
25:48easy it is to to get lean
25:50and then there's things like food
25:51rewards doesn't differ that much
25:53predictably between like for example
25:55obese anomalies individuals
25:57um appetite um
26:00yeah like i said it correlates with
26:02metabolic rate then there's metabolic
26:03addictivity
26:04but this goes both ways so some people
26:07have a big
26:08gap and i always use myself as an
26:09example like i'm very metabolically
26:11adaptive i'm now bulking on
26:133 100 calories and if i have to get
26:15contest lean i have to go to 1800.
26:181900 does not cut it i plateau 100 and
26:21like
26:22[Music]
26:2386 kilograms 185 meters high plateau
26:26on 1900 calories with uh cardio and
26:30strength training cardio that
26:31actually does nothing for me it's like
26:33pure pure compository energy
26:34expenditure for me so i i like
26:38100 plateau and i need to go down to the
26:401800 level which
26:41kind of sucks statistically speaking you
26:43know and i have a
26:44huge huge appetite but
26:48uh it also is quite easy for me
26:50relatively speaking to maintain because
26:52i as soon as i start eating more
26:53my metabolism ramps up really fast and i
26:56can go like when i'm looking out to
26:573100 and maintain there uh still have
27:00abs and
27:01like genuinely lean bulk without
27:04putting on basically no fat like very
27:06very not measurable most
27:07weeks so it's like that for most people
27:10a lot of people that find that they have
27:12to get so low in energy intake
27:14they can actually ramp up really high
27:16afterwards to
27:17maintain that level so it sucks to get
27:19there but once you're there it's easier
27:21for them for other people
27:23to maintain it so because these factors
27:26are
27:26they go both ways with fat loss it's i'd
27:29say that
27:30decisively less influenced by genetics
27:33and because everyone can get lean just
27:35energy balance thermodynamics apply to
27:37everyone
27:38and there's no such thing where the body
27:39just says like nothing happens anymore
27:41all the body says is
27:42energy expenditure decreases appetite
27:44increases and
27:46food cravings increase if you can you
27:48can do something about all of those
27:49factors so everyone can get lean
27:51some people just have a bit hard time
27:52than others i think that's really well
27:54said it's
27:55basically essentially it's all relative
27:57uh for everyone
27:58involved and uh i'm very similar i kind
28:01of
28:02massing right now on 4000 calories and i
28:03have to cut down below
28:05always down to like the low 2000s to get
28:07any kind of leanness
28:09which is frustrating but at the end of
28:10the day like everyone's
28:12like it's relative so you can't really
28:14complain about it too much i guess
28:16the good thing is maintaining on higher
28:17calories and then you talk spoke about
28:19it and
28:19i think nutrition is just so much more
28:22impacted by environment
28:23than anything else and social life and
28:25those sort of things so
28:26i think a lot of people think maybe they
28:29have a hard time
28:30but and it may be genetic but then
28:31actually it's all the things outside
28:33which have a huge impact on
28:35nutrition yeah for sure yeah
28:39so one of the things actually i thought
28:40was interesting was some people talk
28:42about
28:43when you start makes a difference so if
28:45you start when you're like
28:47you know as a male 15 16 years old just
28:50as you're getting into the gym like you
28:51have your natural steroid cycle
28:53because you're like all the hormones are
28:55at their highest do you think that has a
28:56difference like if you started
28:58when you're 16 versus like 20 25
29:0130 do you think that's gonna kind of
29:03impact where you can get to and like
29:05yeah essentially where you're gonna get
29:07to
29:08um i think for muscle growth and fat
29:10loss
29:11no for strength loss a little and for
29:13sports definite
29:14yes so there's there's very little
29:16research to support a link in general
29:18between age of starting
29:19um other than in some sports
29:23in sports is different for two reasons
29:24one there are some sports
29:26uh where you just need an absolutely
29:27insane amount of uh
29:29practice like uh if you want to be a
29:32competitive chess player for example
29:33that's insane that's like things where
29:35the ten thousand hour
29:37rule come from it's like competitive
29:39chess
29:40uh playing violin and some of those
29:43things are also
29:44pretty uh determined by uh they're very
29:46age age sensitive
29:48olympic weightlifting is also relatively
29:49agents with because it's very technical
29:51and injuries can be devastating like if
29:54you you're injured your motor
29:55coordination is slightly impaired that
29:57may be
29:58at the elite level you know you're like
30:00one percent slower that's that's it
30:01you know you have to if you run the 100
30:03meters uh one second slower
30:06that that's huge it's like the lead
30:08level has absolutely used and you're
30:09completely
30:10you're completely done so because the
30:13amount of practice
30:14involved and the fact that more
30:16coordination um
30:18it generally thinks that just like
30:19riding a bicycle
30:21the brain is still developing it's more
30:23susceptible or
30:24um more primed in a better state
30:27basically to take up something new
30:29and respond to that for later on it's
30:31like learning a language
30:32or learning to ride a bicycle if you did
30:34it early in life you have a pretty big
30:36advantage
30:37compared to if you try to do it later
30:38language is is an extreme example
30:40because there are actually parts of the
30:41brain
30:42that are uh seemingly genetically wired
30:46to learn language at a certain time and
30:48after that time that those sort of close
30:50like growth plates if you will like very
30:52simplified analogy but
30:53um that's why it's so difficult to learn
30:56a new language after like age
30:5721 and when you've already learned a
31:00language in particular
31:02but strength training has as some of
31:04that at least in terms of
31:06or so how the body learns to coordinate
31:08your muscles
31:09like motor coordination so but for
31:12muscle growth
31:13i'm not aware of any research actually
31:15showing a link you know you hear that a
31:17lot like he started really young
31:19that's why he's so jacked it's like you
31:20also have like old man strength and
31:22everything
31:23i think time is the only factor like you
31:25have an advantage if you start early
31:26because you've been lifting longer
31:28and you have an advantage if you're
31:29older because you've been listening
31:30longer
31:31but other than that there i don't think
31:33there's anything to like uh
31:34to those phenomena i think that's
31:37probably a nice
31:38thing for hopefully i mean it's not if
31:40you started early great you started
31:42early but if you're listening and you've
31:43started later then
31:44don't use an excuse and not to kind of
31:47post your limits and
31:48i guess that brings in another question
31:50i know i was reading
31:51kind of brad schoenfeld's most latest
31:54book um
31:55i think it's the scientific development
31:56of muscle hypertrophy i might get that
31:58wrong
31:58but i think he he's spoken there about
32:00kind of genetic limits and he said
32:02like he doesn't not i'm not sure he
32:04would say as far as he doesn't believe
32:06in it but he's just like he's not
32:07convinced that anyone really ever gets
32:09there and potentially
32:10just your age caps you what's been your
32:13experience with that i know how have you
32:14seen that kind of in practice
32:16well he's right in the sense that there
32:17is no hard evidence that
32:19we have a natty max uh it's it's mostly
32:22observational
32:23and of course you never know like like
32:25we talked about like maybe they would
32:26still respond to something different
32:28yeah uh but
32:30you know anecdotally if you look at like
32:31world records how
32:33they plateau over time uh muscle mass
32:36like factory mass index
32:37uh the famous paper of the 25
32:39fascinating mass index
32:40um you know you see that there are some
32:42outliers
32:44but it's not like it it's anywhere
32:46consistent
32:47so yeah for most people it's going to be
32:49really hard to go over 253 miles index
32:51and at some point you also get into the
32:54um
32:55to the point where mathematically maybe
32:57it's asymptotic it's not like a hard
32:58limit
32:59but you're talking about a rate of
33:00progression that's so slow
33:02that you might as well talk about like
33:05heart limit
33:06you know you're talking about and i
33:08measured it at some point
33:09uh it was like a pound over a year uh
33:12like same stats calipers everything
33:14controlled
33:15in perfect energy balance and again like
33:16a pound in a year of doing everything
33:18right
33:19uh and i probably you know on the other
33:22hand if i
33:23could keep gaining that for you know
33:25another 10 years
33:26that would be great but it's probably
33:27going to be less every year so
33:30uh yeah is there a heart limit maybe not
33:33but in practice yeah if you
33:34like the calculator on my website i
33:36don't know anyone who's surpassed
33:38i love it's like if you if you even get
33:40there that's like
33:42awesome yeah actually bringing it back
33:44to that calculator i did do it
33:46before we came on air and i think my
33:49natural my max natural kind of body
33:52weight at five percent was 195.5 pounds
33:54and i was like
33:55i've got big wrists and ankles i was
33:57like god damn if i ever get to that i am
34:00going to be
34:00like absolutely like fabergasted but i
34:03think my and it said my normalized
34:05ffmi right now was like 23.7 which is
34:08according to like yours pretty decent
34:11like
34:12um yeah you're saying like 24.9 was
34:14upper limit for people's
34:16like genetics generally for most people
34:17which is obviously right by that 25.
34:20i guess some people kind of look at that
34:23ffmi and they look at people
34:25and they kind of kind of you know it's
34:27like the natty witch hunt and they try
34:28and call them out
34:30is there kind of what your thoughts
34:31behind that um
34:33how would you like if you're going to
34:36give people advice
34:36on that sort of thing what would you say
34:40it's probabilistic that's the main thing
34:42so i
34:43formulated it very precisely in the
34:44calculator like is the percentage
34:47chance because you can also use it to
34:48see if someone is or the percentage
34:50chance that someone a random person
34:52outpicked out of population would
34:53achieve that level of muscle mass
34:55and with some people it's like one
34:57percent uh and some people it's like
34:59five percent
35:00and you know the five percenter um
35:04um good example would be like jeff
35:06nippert yeah this is jeff
35:08i i don't know for sure like nobody but
35:10jeff really knows for sure probably
35:12so um we have good indications to think
35:15he has
35:16great genetics like he also runs in the
35:18family uh i would say like based on
35:20him talking to him but i've seen like
35:22his physique he does not have
35:24a juicer physique at all like in his
35:26progression everything
35:28it doesn't say uh juicer to me
35:31uh it also doesn't seem like the type
35:32but that's a weak argument because you'd
35:34be surprised
35:35yeah uh when you've been in the industry
35:36a while but
35:38you know we'll never know so yeah for
35:41statistically he's he's out there in
35:43terms of genetics
35:45and we we can say that either he has
35:47good genetics or he's on the jews
35:49like but we don't you'll never know so
35:53that's the thing like you can make you
35:55can say that about someone but other
35:57than that yeah it's just
35:58probabilistic and you you'll get if you
36:00just test enough people you'll get
36:01someone
36:02that's like the super outlier you know
36:04you
36:05we have those people from the the 1940s
36:08that's
36:08that kind of area but like fostering
36:10mass index of maybe
36:12you know even correct for caliper
36:13measurements it would still be like 27
36:16i think the uh it was 129
36:20but like several 26 plus around 27 which
36:23is like
36:24crazy muscular you know so
36:27yeah they exist and it's it's in many of
36:30those cases it was
36:31exceedingly improbable that they were on
36:34drugs like
36:34basically almost physically impossible
36:36like they would have to be like
36:38head ahead of the game injecting that
36:40stuff well
36:41yeah this is uh that's a very very far
36:44stretch case so you know when you're
36:46talking about logarithmic curve
36:48again 95 of people are going to be like
36:50in this same zone
36:51there's gonna be like some guy or gal
36:54that's like
36:55way the hell out there and it's like a
36:57complete genetic miracle and nobody will
36:59ever believe that person's daddy but
37:01they actually are
37:02and i think to that point i think
37:04because people
37:06i think people think there's more of
37:07that type of person than there is
37:09because when you look at
37:10like the way we digest information it's
37:12all social media so
37:14people with average physiques they don't
37:15you don't see as many people like that
37:18because you're not gonna follow them
37:19they don't get the big followings
37:20you see these guys who have amazing
37:22physiques and they
37:23are saying they're natural maybe they
37:24compete in natural fits and you're kind
37:25of like
37:26like that seems like and it's to them it
37:28seems like there's a lot of them but in
37:29reality
37:30it's just they have a lot of followers
37:32and they get a lot of viewership
37:33but in in fact if we were to if everyone
37:36had that many followers and we were
37:37following everyone
37:38within bodybuilding you'd be like okay
37:40like now i i have a better average
37:42picture of
37:42what to expect yeah for sure like it's
37:46it's it's very skills depending on which
37:48population you ask because there's also
37:49like
37:50sort of the nihilist cultures or like
37:52anyone that looks remotely
37:54like they lived in a t-shirt it's like
37:56for sure on gear you know
37:58and then there's the people that are
38:00just completely clueless and they're
38:01like
38:01this is funny coleman guy really natty
38:04so yeah completely depends on your frame
38:08for reference
38:08yeah absolutely no i think in i think
38:11that kind of
38:12i don't know the way i look at it i
38:13always like give the benefit of the
38:14doubt so like jeff if i look at him
38:16maybe i'm like oh yeah he looks like he
38:18could be either very genetically well
38:19endowed or on gear he says he's not
38:21like i just leave it like that there's
38:23no point like it's a waste of time
38:25anymore
38:26because most people it's like when you
38:27you got a test result at school
38:29and you're like how did you do you're
38:31not actually asking how that person did
38:33you want to know how you did in
38:35comparison
38:35you know so with with that emacs that's
38:38the main thing and i think
38:40that's why the calculator you know you
38:41could use it as a rough frame of
38:43reference or what would be like
38:44a very good target but other than that
38:48all you know is can you progress and if
38:51you're not progressing like
38:52what do you need to do to still make
38:55progress and what's your actual 90 max
38:57gonna be that there's only one way to
38:58find out
38:59and on this regard like for people who
39:02potentially they're the kind of slow
39:04burners or they're people who maybe
39:06aren't as genetically well endowed
39:08i've just seen i i think i may even pull
39:11this up from one of
39:12mike israel tells videos where someone
39:13said you over complicate things use
39:16science and still look like
39:17i don't think it was towards mike i
39:19can't remember who it was too you still
39:20look like
39:21stop thinking and just train hard such
39:23and such looks better than you that was
39:25kind of like a random statement that
39:26someone might make and do you think
39:28that's just i mean how helpful
39:30is that like those sort of comments i
39:32mean because it's
39:33and i think of like the survivorship
39:35bias or something these are the people
39:36that
39:36despite what they do almost they're
39:38going to get results and then they just
39:39think everyone else is overthinking it
39:41like what what your thoughts on
39:43statements like that
39:45yeah i think if you look at and in
39:47general if anyone looks at mike
39:49and they're like if they're either even
39:52like
39:53are you netting or if they're like uh
39:55i'm not
39:56um impressed by your physique then
39:58they're just clueless yes
40:00mike has objectively pro bodybuilder
40:02level stats like his
40:03his fascinating ex is insane like he is
40:07jacked off the charts okay it's like
40:09it's not a matter of debate you may not
40:10like how he looks but he's he's
40:12jacked so
40:14um that's you could only tell like what
40:16someone's
40:18um you know frame reference is and how
40:21data grounded they are and in general i
40:23think for a lot of people
40:24it's also one of those things that they
40:25just try to uh
40:27play off someone's expertise or
40:29something because
40:31that's all they're saying like you you
40:33look poor so
40:34it's like even if someone does like it
40:37doesn't have to mean anything you know i
40:38think
40:39for fat loss um i would definitely trust
40:42someone especially when it comes to diet
40:43adherence and the like
40:44someone who's gotten really lean but
40:46especially for muscle growth because we
40:47know there's big genetic variability
40:49some people are more like armchair
40:51experts and that can actually still
40:53be people you learn a lot from you may
40:55want to mix that with some
40:57practical advice you know it doesn't
40:58mean that they're wrong about what
41:00they're saying
41:01so you know at best
41:04like factually it doesn't mean anything
41:06like it's complete logical fallacy
41:08you know but it does have some use in
41:10the sense that because some people say
41:11it doesn't mean anything and of course
41:12that's logically speaking 100 true but
41:15people need
41:16to filter information based on limited
41:18queues because they are not gonna do all
41:19the research
41:20themselves and they look at some cues
41:22and then i say if someone is jacked
41:24it means something um especially if
41:26they're like
41:27nat eject um but it's
41:30it's a small cue and it's things like
41:33exercise
41:34technique um if someone's been injured
41:36and had a
41:37certain injury that's an actual
41:39indication they
41:40may have something to say about you know
41:42how to rehab that injury like what they
41:43did how they got over it
41:45if someone's jacked and how they got
41:46jacked doesn't mean so much
41:49if someone's ripped especially if they
41:51were fat before
41:53that that is actually somewhat
41:55informative so
41:57but all of this is like here in the
41:59hierarchy compared to
42:01is does what they're saying actually
42:02makes sense can they support it with
42:04evidence
42:05you know that that is by far the biggest
42:08thing
42:09hey pascal here i just quickly wanted to
42:12remind you of our online coaching
42:13service
42:14i revise stronger we put a huge emphasis
42:17on the personal aspect of our coaching
42:19and if you want to take your physique
42:21and knowledge to the next level
42:22hit the link in the description below
42:25and i guess yeah some people talk about
42:27i don't know don't ask the guy who's
42:29always had big arms or big legs
42:31how they got big legs because they
42:33haven't really had to try for it
42:35ask the guy who's had like a hard time
42:37getting them big
42:38um so is that similar like if for
42:40someone who's always been like on the
42:41smaller side and they've just over time
42:43managed to get this
42:44impressive physique do you feel like
42:45that is someone for the listeners if
42:47they're looking someone for information
42:48and they were
42:49kind of i don't know struggling to
42:50decipher whether or not it was kind of
42:52with good information is that like a
42:54general
42:55advisable thing to do that's definitely
42:57much better than just looking at who's
42:59big
42:59yes for example if you look at like calf
43:01training that's always like the funny
43:02thing when you look at people like
43:04oh bro how did you get the calf so big
43:06and they're like i don't actually train
43:07gas bro
43:08it's like okay so that must be the
43:10winning recipe no don't train
43:12cavs so yeah if you look at people who
43:14got small caps and then
43:15make them into big halves then you have
43:18a lot more information and guarantee
43:19they're not going to tell you they don't
43:21train
43:22so yeah you're a bit closer but it's
43:24still it's one person
43:25you don't know if you're naughty you
43:26don't know if what they were doing make
43:27no sense at all before
43:29and most people have a very hard time
43:31distinguishing which factors made a
43:32difference
43:33because over time we typically improve
43:35our diet our lifestyle and our training
43:37all together gradually and it's very
43:40hard to measure muscle growth
43:41you know like over time um i see like i
43:44like i feel my arms are a little bit
43:46bigger
43:46since last year or so but i you know
43:50a lot of things different uh including
43:52the pandemic for example you know
43:54so the training was very different this
43:55year a lot of things were different so
43:57you know was there like the one magic
43:59exercise that made the difference
44:00probably not yeah so in the end i think
44:03science has a
44:04is very very high for me on the
44:06hierarchy of science and data
44:08when it comes to does something make
44:10sense
44:11and the other factors are more like
44:13discerning
44:14like a rough discerning of who to listen
44:16to but if someone
44:18publishes scientific and data based or
44:20data-driven articles
44:22or podcasts videos that's like
44:25by far one of the biggest things because
44:27then you can also see for yourself
44:28does what they're seeing extent do they
44:30have evidence to support it you can
44:31check
44:32what you know you can check it yourself
44:35um and i can say from personal
44:37experience it's also
44:39much harder to to write like an article
44:42or make a video and
44:43have it be supported with scientific
44:44references because if you you can just
44:46say something
44:46and you might not even be aware that's
44:48just something you've said so many times
44:50that
44:50you thought it's true or you know
44:53everyone says it's true
44:55um but then when you actually start
44:56looking at research like i've had some
44:58cases where i'm like
44:58i know this is true like do i really
45:00have to look up a reference and then i
45:02start
45:02digging and i'm like so actually the
45:04support for this is not
45:05as as firm as i thought you know and
45:07then
45:09you you're really forced to um to
45:12question all your own beliefs and that's
45:13the way forward to finding real truth i
45:16think that's fantastic and
45:18i guess one thing people might argue
45:19back at you benno and they'd be like i
45:21don't know
45:22science they don't test the huge guys
45:24like you don't get like the
45:26the populations and the studies are only
45:28a certain length
45:29and kind of what would be your general
45:31kind of take on people saying that if
45:33you
45:33like is it just a case of like i
45:36understand that
45:36but it's still the best we have right
45:38now right
45:40so i think it really helps to look um
45:44from the from anecdote to science rather
45:46than from science down because if you
45:48look at like a scientific study you can
45:49say like the duration's not so long
45:51like oh sample size was only 20 people
45:53you know they used bioelectrical
45:55impedance rather than mri to measure
45:57muscle mass
45:58so i'm like screw that study because
46:00that's what a lot of people do you know
46:01they look for reasons to discredit the
46:03whole study
46:03rather than you know weigh it because
46:05yeah you can weigh your studies evidence
46:07based on its
46:08methodological uh quality but there's
46:11almost never a reason to completely
46:13discredit the study
46:14like it has to be like a serious
46:16impairment of its especially internal
46:18validity
46:19like for example if you find low carb
46:22was better for fat loss or muscle growth
46:24but protein intake was higher that's
46:25like that's a groundbreaking um
46:28limitation on your ability to say was it
46:30really the carbs or was it protein
46:32but other than that like limitations are
46:35not reasons to completely discredit the
46:36study
46:37and if you look from an adult to science
46:40you can see for example okay so we have
46:42this guy
46:42and he's been doing this and this worked
46:44better now
46:46we get this guy and we get 19 other guys
46:49that are going to do this program like
46:51this his type of gap trading for example
46:54and we're going to contrast it with
46:56another 20 people that do a different
46:57kind of calf training
46:59not only that but we're going to measure
47:02uh how much muscle they're
47:03gaining of all of them on average we're
47:05making sure they're going to be on the
47:06same program we're also going to control
47:08their diets
47:09and you know more and more more more and
47:12we're not
47:12just going to measure like their words
47:14for how much bigger they get we're
47:15actually going to measure muscle mass
47:16even if it's worth a circumference state
47:19and then if you look at all those
47:20factors then you can start to see what
47:21oh this this evidence is starting to get
47:23really really strong and even if you
47:25have some limitations like they're only
47:27they only measure that for two months
47:29you can see just
47:30how much more evidence even as a single
47:33study
47:34provides compared to what some guy says
47:36it's
47:38it's a completely different pub game in
47:40terms of evidence like science is not
47:42something like
47:42that the funny thing is when people talk
47:44what about real life science is real
47:46life
47:47you know these people actually exist you
47:49know these a lot of studies are about
47:50like athletes and
47:52trainees that they're actual people they
47:54actually did that program you know this
47:55this happens on this planet you know in
47:57the times we live in
47:58so there is no it's not like a
48:01theoretical model like a computer
48:02simulation or something you know
48:04um science is real life
48:07fantastic and actually i meant to ask
48:09when you brought up um
48:11kind of talking about you talked about
48:12actually the fact that you can use these
48:14measurements on females as well does
48:16your calculator work i can't remember if
48:17it
48:18is there a female specific one or is it
48:19the same measurements right there
48:21we use the available data for a female
48:23maximum muscular potential
48:25uh and i i cannot break it down to uh
48:28per muscle size because there's not
48:30enough data
48:30but like total body fat free mass it may
48:33be a little conservative
48:34i've had quite some women contact me and
48:36say like i'm basically there
48:37uh i'm like well you know you're like
48:39five-time crossfit champion so
48:41it makes sense to me actually so um but
48:44yeah i've not had anyone that's
48:45like over it a lot all people in general
48:48like oh i'm pretty much there
48:49like yeah but you're not 10 body fat
48:51like
48:52that's what you input but that's not
48:54reality
48:55so um it's it's a bit more limited but i
48:59think
48:59uh it's the best we have currently and
49:01it's still a reasonable indication
49:03and with your calculator have you had i
49:05don't know how many people you've
49:07taken through it and like i don't know
49:09how likely do you think most people are
49:10to get
49:11to that point i don't know if that's
49:12even a question i can really ask you or
49:15is it tricky you can use the um the
49:17percentage one like that says like
49:18what's the percentage chance and like do
49:20it with your own stats
49:21you get some id um but
49:24in general i'd say that if you even get
49:26to that level that's like what you get
49:27with
49:28good genetics yeah and it's it's
49:30theoretically possible to exceed it but
49:32then you're like the
49:33the one in a million you know so it's
49:36basically that's the level
49:37you could get at if you have good
49:40genetics
49:41and i guess you're doing everything
49:42outside yeah pretty much
49:44spot bang on perfect pretty much yeah
49:48i was looking at i was thinking wow if i
49:50could be 195 pounds on stage that's like
49:52another
49:53uh well it's a heck of a lot more than i
49:55went on stage currently so i was like
49:57huh yeah
49:58it's a good it's nice though because
49:59it's it's a name and in that regard
50:01uh if people are kind of training and
50:04they are maybe getting results but
50:06they're like could i be getting
50:08more am i a slow burner or am i just not
50:10maximizing things are there any things
50:11you could
50:12people could generally look at to know
50:14if i don't know they should be doing
50:15more
50:16to get more out of their training maybe
50:18less even
50:20yeah that's difficult because
50:24because the correlation between like
50:26someone standing max and how fast they
50:27can gain muscle
50:28does not appear to be linear remotely
50:31in fact we uh we did a pretty exhaustive
50:34review recently not sure if we're going
50:36to publish it
50:37probably and we found that someone's
50:41baseline muscle mass
50:42is not a good indicator of how much
50:44muscle they can gain or how fast they
50:45gain muscle right not at all
50:47uh i i'm i'm like anecdotally
50:51i think that there has to be some
50:52correlation but based on the research is
50:54like
50:54really poor so you can have someone that
50:57starts off really small and they
50:58actually game also really fast
51:00and you can have someone that starts off
51:02really big and they actually seem to
51:04make relatively slow amount of gains so
51:08the relates saying something about the
51:09rate of muscle growth is really
51:10difficult
51:12and i guess that comes into a lot of
51:13people talk about i don't know you make
51:14the most of your gains in the first five
51:16years or
51:17what have you i think that probably
51:19comes with a lot of assumptions and
51:21i think people i mean as you train
51:23especially for myself like i've just
51:25i've learned more i've learnt myself
51:26more so my rate of growth has actually
51:28almost
51:29like stayed the same or even sped up at
51:32times when it should have
51:33like on paper slowed down do you see
51:34that the case like i don't know probably
51:36you take on a client and you're like
51:37they've said
51:38they've plateaued and then you're like
51:39that was we could make new clients a lot
51:41but then of course you changed so many
51:43things at once
51:43yeah then uh it makes sense but for many
51:46people
51:47uh especially people that are on their
51:48own that don't have a coach it's very
51:50step wise as well
51:51like and i've had um periods of years
51:54where i didn't really make any progress
51:57so i've been lifting
51:58for um about
52:0217 years now um in some form like
52:06uh about 15 years like in gyms
52:10and um it probably the amount of actual
52:13time progressing of that like
52:15making good consistent progress uh
52:17barring the last
52:18which is like the the one pound per year
52:20kind of rates
52:22i probably said of the first 10 years i
52:23i made probably three years
52:25it's like actual progress seven years
52:26learning how to make further progress
52:28yeah yeah i think that's so important
52:30because i think uh
52:32like people hear the figures and then
52:33they kind of feel like they want to give
52:35up and in fact
52:36this is the time when like just learn a
52:38little bit more
52:39um because i mean there's some big
52:40things that you can get right every day
52:42that are gonna i mean
52:43they're relatively i would say simple
52:45things to get right that are going to
52:47have a big big impact and it isn't the
52:49people look towards supplementation and
52:50things and i think for a lot of people
52:52and
52:52i mean it comes back to that slow burn
52:54type of people who
52:55who are just gaining their genetic limit
52:58is just
52:59they're slowly going to get there over
53:00many years it's that consistency element
53:02and continue like small adjustments and
53:04making sure that you're every day
53:05kind of focusing on that process yeah
53:09definitely like a lot of things also
53:11make it much more sustainable
53:13you learn things of how to manage
53:16appetite just a new recipe for example
53:18like it doesn't really contribute to
53:20your gains acutely at all because you're
53:23at the same energy intake
53:24but the fact that you're now doing so
53:26much more sustainably
53:27makes a huge impact on how easy it is to
53:30maintain that body fat level you reach
53:31over the next decade for example
53:33fantastic meno i think we've actually
53:36covered everything i wanted to about
53:38genetics and kind of for muscle growth
53:39and
53:40i really hope this can act as a resource
53:42if people have questions about it
53:43um they can look here and get kind of
53:45the lowdown because i think yeah
53:47some people look at genetics and they
53:48use it as a cop-out card or they're like
53:50oh no ignore genetics it's all about
53:52hard work whereas
53:53i think it's fairly more complex than
53:55that and
53:56i really want to thank you for taking
53:58the time to explain everything and
54:00if people want to learn more about you
54:02uh where should they head and i'll make
54:03sure obviously
54:04um that calculator that you we've talked
54:06about quite a lot is going to be linked
54:07below and
54:08yeah make sure if people are getting
54:10high scores in there i want to hear
54:11about it so
54:11get put them in the comments or yeah i
54:13guess let me know
54:15yeah yeah good um uh it's where you'll
54:19find all my stuff
54:20uh if you're new to my contents probably
54:21the best way to get to know me is like
54:23on my main
54:24uh like on the main page uh i have an
54:27email newsletter
54:28and you get a lot of free content like a
54:30free email course basically it's like my
54:31most popular articles that people like
54:33that have been following me for
54:34a lot longer and then you can see if
54:37it's something you're liking
54:39awesome thank you so much meno and thank
54:40you everyone for listening
54:52so i'm steve hall founder of revive
54:55stronger
54:55and a coach of revised stronger my name
54:57is pisco floor i'm the co-owner of
55:00strong and also a coach of course he
55:02revives stronger has probably been going
55:03solidly for three years probably roughly
55:06about three years revised stronger to me
55:08it is becoming kind of my child my
55:10foster child
55:11it's the gathering and getting together
55:14of like-minded people
55:15we've been expanding the coaching team
55:17which is helping us help more people
55:19but each coach can only help a certain
55:21number of people
55:22right now it's all over the place we
55:24have youtube we have facebook we have
55:26instagram but there
55:27isn't that community aspect behind that
55:31and so the next step for us is develop
55:33your membership site
55:36so basically we want to create a family
55:38and a community
55:39that is then benefiting from another a
55:42really cool community
55:43for people within our little niche is
55:45going to be a website they will get
55:46early access to our podcast
55:48you can access us ask us questions the
55:51community aspect
55:52we have a forum there you can ask
55:54questions but also you can
55:55you can lock your journey there's also
55:57going to be courses on there courses
55:59presentations on different topics
56:02discount of past
56:03seminar footage we will log our journey
56:06as well
56:06we'll start vlogging we're going to have
56:08documentaries
56:09our entire athletic journey furthermore
56:13they get
56:13access to an exercise video library
56:16[Music]
56:17the exercises that we love for
56:19hypertrophy and maximizing hypertrophy
56:21we're going to go through those
56:23in depth telling you how to execute them
56:25kept them concise
56:26and also mobile friendly so that you can
56:28watch them in between your sets
56:32i'm super excited to grow this community
56:34the amount of value that we're going to
56:35be delivering
56:36is huge i'd love you to be part of it
56:37you will get so much out of that
56:40i'll see you inside
56:45you

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