1993 ARCHIVE: "Charles Manson, Diane Sawyer, and the THEATER of Network Television" — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00are you so afraid are you so afraid
2. 0:02of that that that's got your mind locked
3. 0:05up no i'm so i don't understand go over
4. 0:07to the morgan look at all the dead
5. 0:08people just explain to me though i'm not
6. 0:11dumb explain to me simply
7. 0:14why that house that night why which
8. 0:15house which night the house on cello
9. 0:18drive the tate house why did they go
10. 0:20there that night uh because tex had been
11. 0:22there before
12. 0:24and he went to a familiar place and why
13. 0:26did they kill people that night what did
14. 0:28they think
15. 0:32you know he got everybody was loaded he
16. 0:35said he wasn't he said he was coming off
17. 0:36an lasd trip he had a little speed
18. 0:40a little speed well not around me he
19. 0:41didn't have no speed because i wouldn't
20. 0:42line the speed on that ranch i kick ass
21. 0:45over there
22. 0:46there's a lot of stuff around around me
23. 0:49i take a little grass with a little lsd
24. 0:51but none of that is destructive
25. 0:53anyway you can ask any of them other
26. 0:54girls that'll tell you
27. 0:56the other side of this game uh i don't
28. 0:58play i don't play drugs i play i play
29. 1:00like like
30. 1:02you know like
31. 1:03debbie debbie chippian but i don't
32. 1:05really get down heavy with it
33. 1:07um what did they think are we ready here
34. 1:08man we're ready we're ready are we ready
35. 1:11here okay ready war what are they for we
36. 1:13are at war now but what did they think
37. 1:15they were doing for you they would do a
38. 1:17neat information what did they think
39. 1:18they were doing for you okay okay
40. 1:21if you or me and i and you everything
41. 1:23you do is for you is for me too so what
42. 1:25did they think if you're in one mind if
43. 1:27i am you and you are me and we are all
44. 1:29together
45. 1:30and then who's responsible for a calm
46. 1:31together over me right now
47. 1:34it's all his fault oh no no it's his
48. 1:36fault no we put another false face on
49. 1:38it's halloween it's your fault so now
50. 1:40wait a minute
51. 1:42criminal behavior is
52. 1:43the same it's
53. 1:45mundane in most minds criminals always
54. 1:47go to a familiar place
55. 1:50texas vented that house
56. 1:52text went back to that house here's the
57. 1:54conversation
58. 1:55indian mesa
59. 1:57we got four campfires we've got four
60. 1:59queens
61. 2:01on a motorcycle game a motorcycle group
62. 2:04that rides ss motorcycles out of venice
63. 2:07santa monica
64. 2:08so we're riding motorcycles and we're
65. 2:10all up there and we got these fires
66. 2:11going we got this big problem that came
67. 2:13up
68. 2:14i had to go shoot somebody for text
69. 2:16bobby's in prison
70. 2:18my brother's in jail now understand my
71. 2:21mind all my life i've been in jail
72. 2:22because they haven't wanted to get me
73. 2:23out of jail i didn't have no brother
74. 2:25outside so i spent years and years and
75. 2:28years and years just because nobody
76. 2:30would come and sign their name and get
77. 2:31me out of jail and the jail couldn't let
78. 2:32me out because i have no place to go
79. 2:34so i spent 22 years in prison because i
80. 2:36didn't have nobody outside i can't let
81. 2:38somebody that's with me to stay in jail
82. 2:40it just didn't you know it's not in my
83. 2:42makeup man i got to get my brother out
84. 2:44of jail so you needed money to do it
85. 2:46well that's that's here's the here's the
86. 2:48division between your mind and my mind
87. 2:50here's where the chamber opens up
88. 2:52when you get in trouble you go to your
89. 2:53mother you call up mother i ain't got no
90. 2:55mother to call when you go to the bank
91. 2:57draw some money pay a lawyer i got no
92. 2:59money i can't go to no lawyer i go to a
93. 3:01lawyer ain't got enough money all these
94. 3:02i got a little money and anytime anybody
95. 3:04knows anything about lawyers when you
96. 3:05got a little money just taking that
97. 3:07they'll take the little money unless you
98. 3:08sue them in court you dig in other words
99. 3:10like i don't have enough money to go to
100. 3:12the lawyer to get bobby out so
101. 3:13everybody's standing around i said
102. 3:15pay me
103. 3:17pay me what you owe me now
104. 3:19and they said well how do we do that i
105. 3:20should get my brother out of jail
106. 3:22he said how do we do it i said i don't
107. 3:24know how you do it i don't care how you
108. 3:25do it do it now
109. 3:27do it they said how do we do it i said
110. 3:29don't ask me how to do it i don't want
111. 3:31to be no part of no conspiracy but
112. 3:33however you do it do it and get it done
113. 3:35now and they said well we don't know
114. 3:37what to do we get a lawyer and then here
115. 3:40leslie and patty they said if we get a
116. 3:44lawyer all they're going to do is lie
117. 3:46and take our money anyway
118. 3:50now system
119. 3:52blame it on your lawyers
120. 3:54if your lawyers ain't lying and taking
121. 3:55the money of the poor people then the
122. 3:57poor people got a court to stand on and
123. 3:59they got rights as individuals where the
124. 4:00revolution they fought in 1776 that
125. 4:03guarantees rights to a common ordinary
126. 4:06farmer poor man on the street like me
127. 4:08a rebel i got my rights in a 76
128. 4:11courtroom if you don't give me my rights
129. 4:12in the courtroom then i become king
130. 4:14george
131. 4:15and i got all the rights then and when i
132. 4:17stand on the mountain and i say do it it
133. 4:20gets done if it don't get done then i'll
134. 4:22move on it
135. 4:24and that's the last thing in the world
136. 4:25you want me to do
137. 4:27because i got that confederate sword in
138. 4:28the kitchen
139. 4:30don't invoke me
140. 4:32do it get it done how do we do it i
141. 4:34don't know i don't want to be involved
142. 4:36in it
143. 4:38i keep a close
144. 4:40watch on this heart of mine in japan
145. 4:44they call it ninja
146. 4:46i don't get involved in violence i'm not
147. 4:49a violent human being
148. 4:52did you tell the women to do their
149. 4:54witchy things i said if you're gonna do
150. 4:57something
151. 4:58leave something witchy
152. 5:02just like i would tell you if you're
153. 5:04gonna do something
154. 5:05do it well
155. 5:07and leave something witchy
156. 5:08leave a sign to let the world know that
157. 5:10you were there
158. 5:11have a good day
159. 5:13did you tell them which words no pig
160. 5:16helter skelter arise nope
161. 5:19it's not my vocabulary
162. 5:21that's not my generation i keep telling
163. 5:23you that
164. 5:25my children leslie said
165. 5:27in the car on the way to the la bianca
166. 5:29house you said this time
167. 5:32make sure they're not scared like last
168. 5:34night
169. 5:36oh no
170. 5:37it might have been something like this
171. 5:41uh
172. 5:43yeah that i remember something like that
173. 5:45but i don't remember exactly the right
174. 5:47words i don't remember exactly the right
175. 5:49words but that's that's a simple that's
176. 5:51a simple philosophy from china that's a
177. 5:53chinese philosophy you know if uh if
178. 5:56you're gonna if you're gonna uh go to
179. 5:59war and you're fighting your enemy
180. 6:01and you're killing what he's afraid
181. 6:03you know it's a bad home and it's bad
182. 6:06it's bad so you try to
183. 6:09absorb the fear
184. 6:10which i think the hindus use that word
185. 6:13karma
186. 6:14to balance a garment
187. 6:16and that's why you reassured mr labianca
188. 6:19no no i mentioned that in a conversation
189. 6:21about something
190. 6:23you know what it was
191. 6:24about i don't know
192. 6:25you know but i remember the conversation
193. 6:29look
194. 6:33listen
195. 6:36my words
196. 6:38i live and die by my words
197. 6:40i've lived and died by my words all my
198. 6:42life for 45 years in prison
199. 6:45i keep my word my word is my bond
200. 6:48i walk on my word i live on my word do
201. 6:50you want the world to let you alone and
202. 6:52turn away listen listen
203. 6:54i broke
204. 6:55no law
205. 6:59try to understand that i broke no law
206. 7:02i didn't step out of line with god
207. 7:04and i didn't step out of line with the
208. 7:06man
209. 7:08i did not break the law
210. 7:10now
211. 7:11i told those people the same thing that
212. 7:14the united states president would tell
213. 7:15him
214. 7:19the only way that you can dispensate
215. 7:22life and death
216. 7:23is you have to be willing to give
217. 7:25yourself to that cause
218. 7:27you can't fight a revolution you can't
219. 7:29do anything unless you're willing to
220. 7:30submit yourself to that cause
221. 7:35in other words that's what you learned
222. 7:36in the military did you tell them to
223. 7:39mutilate
224. 7:40so that it would be memorable so that
225. 7:41people would know something was going on
226. 7:44wrong did you tell them to do it in a
227. 7:46memorable way uh hey i told you what i
228. 7:49told them
229. 7:50if you're gonna move you're gonna do
230. 7:52something
231. 7:52do it with your soul and your heart do
232. 7:54it right man don't have step on it did
233. 7:57they do it right i don't know
234. 7:59that's up to them
235. 8:00they live with that
236. 8:02they're responsible for their actions
237. 8:03i'm responsible for my actions
238. 8:06you think the world's going to forget
239. 8:07about you which world every person in
240. 8:09here is a world this
241. 8:11this united world of america you think
242. 8:13we're getting it's going to forget about
243. 8:14you now forget and forget for god
244. 8:17forgive for god that's better
245. 8:22boom we're trying to unify germany now
246. 8:25look here
247. 8:26uh
248. 8:27see here's another thing you guys don't
249. 8:28understand you've got an underworld and
250. 8:30over world you guys live in the
251. 8:32overworld i live in the underworld you
252. 8:34know it's like you think the second
253. 8:36world war is over
254. 8:38second world war is not over
255. 8:41do you understand what i'm telling you
256. 8:43the second world war is not over
257. 8:46is charlie manson crazy whatever that
258. 8:49means sure he's crazy as mad as a hatter
259. 8:51what difference does it make you know a
260. 8:53long time ago being crazy meant
261. 8:54something nowadays everybody's crazy so
262. 8:56i mean you know like you know synonymous
263. 8:58i mean it's an
264. 9:00irony man it's a pair of ducks i mean
265. 9:02are you crazy
266. 9:03dressed in black you think i don't know
267. 9:04everything that goes with that black
268. 9:06you're dressed in
269. 9:09yeah where's your black gloves
270. 9:12you got your rings you think i don't
271. 9:13understand your blue rings and you're
272. 9:15yellow been scared for the little girl
273. 9:16do you think there's anything anything
274. 9:17around that
275. 9:19yeah yeah yeah
276. 9:20yeah and then behind that then you know
277. 9:22doesn't matter
278. 9:24so what do you think about all day long
279. 9:27i don't i don't i try not to think i'm
280. 9:28trying to clear my mind are you a
281. 9:30changed man they say they're changed
282. 9:32i i was a changed man when i got out
283. 9:34last time i learned i learned i learned
284. 9:37my lesson well
285. 9:41what's the lesson you've learned from
286. 9:42all this i don't exist
287. 9:44in your world
288. 9:46i'm only
289. 9:47what is
290. 9:48what it is it is what it is
291. 9:55do you think they were uniquely children
292. 9:57of those times or you think kids would
293. 9:59do the same thing those kids were
294. 10:00beautiful
295. 10:01and do you think kids today would do the
296. 10:02same thing
297. 10:04i think uh uh now see that if i say that
298. 10:07you're gonna put me in another
299. 10:08conspiracy
300. 10:10and now everything that derives from
301. 10:11this is gonna be all my fault i'm coming
302. 10:13back because
303. 10:14you know i know what you you know like
304. 10:16uh where does the buck stop does it go
305. 10:18you know like uh do you want to come
306. 10:20back come back where
307. 10:22with more followers oh come on more
308. 10:24followers
309. 10:26boom boom baby box on brandon you said
310. 10:29it google you said you were the heart of
311. 10:30the place i had no followers you said
312. 10:34you were the energy of the place i was
313. 10:35the energy of the place only because i
314. 10:37was there i didn't even realize i was
315. 10:38the energy of the place
316. 10:40you know i didn't know everybody out
317. 10:41there was dead i really didn't you know
318. 10:43i i really honestly didn't know that
319. 10:45everybody was running on what someone
320. 10:46else said you know they said they said
321. 10:49the kids come up and they said what can
322. 10:50we do i said do whatever you want to do
323. 10:52they said you can't tell the children to
324. 10:53do whatever they want to do how did you
325. 10:55learn what they'd done but over the
326. 10:57period of years i you know i've figured
327. 10:59it all out i went through my mind and
328. 11:00figure out how things happen you know
329. 11:02but how did you learn what had happened
330. 11:04those
331. 11:05two nights the next day and then the day
332. 11:07oh no it took me years man i've been
333. 11:09going through a lot of changes in here i
334. 11:10was on cell 13 and death row walking
335. 11:12back forward so how did i end up here i
336. 11:15was headed for uh uh i was going to san
337. 11:17diego which i do here you know in other
338. 11:18words like wow this is not i didn't pick
339. 11:20this trip i didn't ask for this hand
340. 11:22that's what i said we'll hold you on the
341. 11:24table and we do this hand to you hey you
342. 11:26got a hippie cult leader i'm not a
343. 11:27hippie cult leader i never was a hippie
344. 11:29i don't know what a hip he was come back
345. 11:31one more time i would ask this one more
346. 11:32time
347. 11:34you were not a shocked man when they
348. 11:36came back
349. 11:37all right i'll put you this way would
350. 11:39you do me a favor when you leave talk to
351. 11:42this lieutenant and ask him if he's
352. 11:44shocked
353. 11:45by what goes on in here every day
354. 11:48i see blood in here every day
355. 11:50every day someone's getting shot
356. 11:52someone's getting cut someone's getting
357. 11:54beat i've lived in that all my life
358. 11:56woman that don't wrinkle up my forehead
359. 11:59you can pilot 100 dead bodies up in
360. 12:01front of my cell and it don't set me to
361. 12:02do nothing
362. 12:06you know my mind is not
363. 12:08my mind is not set like that i don't you
364. 12:10know
365. 12:11you know i don't work
366. 12:14you might surprise me let me say this i
367. 12:16feel bad
368. 12:17if anybody feels bad
369. 12:20i don't like to see any negative happen
370. 12:22to anyone i don't like to see
371. 12:24uh children die i don't like to see
372. 12:26automobile accidents i don't like to see
373. 12:28people hurting each other i don't like
374. 12:30none of that i don't get a thrill out of
375. 12:32that you dick but i'm not going to sit
376. 12:34here and tell you a bunch of malarkey
377. 12:36i'm not going gonna fill you up with
378. 12:37bunk if i can't feel you will be right
379. 12:39i'm not gonna fill you up with nothing
380. 12:41so i'm filling you up with this i tell
381. 12:43you and i tell you right up into the
382. 12:45highest peak of your understanding i did
383. 12:47not break the law it's that simple
384. 12:49i did not break the law now all my life
385. 12:51you told me system society the ignorance
386. 12:55of the law is no excuse now if you don't
387. 12:57know the law that's said but why don't
388. 13:00you
389. 13:01why don't you take a
390. 13:02when you think about that woman in her
391. 13:04eight and a half month old baby oh my
392. 13:07goodness here we go
393. 13:08let's bleed hearts let's bleed why don't
394. 13:10we just cut ourselves and just die
395. 13:12because we feel so bad we don't feel bad
396. 13:14what about them other people what about
397. 13:15the poor people starving to death over
398. 13:17the appalachians do you think about that
399. 13:20what about the boat people that and all
400. 13:22the other people that died over there
401. 13:23well what about that little girl and
402. 13:24that ran through my lane and all them
403. 13:26people you shot and killed over there
404. 13:27did you feel bad about that did you feel
405. 13:29bad about the second world war when your
406. 13:30power bodies up to the sky come on man
407. 13:33don't put all that feel bad on me you're
408. 13:35the one that's feeling bad about it if
409. 13:37you're feeling bad about it why don't
410. 13:38you write
411. 13:40a book or something and make some money
412. 13:42so what's the word for these two women
413. 13:43today
414. 13:46yeah what do you want to ask them what's
415. 13:48your
416. 13:49word to them
417. 13:56how much time we got
418. 13:59time enough for you to still say okay
419. 14:01let me go to the restroom
420. 14:03[Laughter]
421. 14:09and then and then then no i'm sure you
422. 14:11know we have time for him to no you got
423. 14:13to answer and then go because this is it
424. 14:15well there isn't anything that can't be
425. 14:17explained in time if we had the time to
426. 14:18explain it just give me a question for
427. 14:20them
428. 14:21they got to
429. 14:23they got to
430. 14:24pose something to you what do you want
431. 14:25to pose to them
432. 14:28right
433. 14:29if
434. 14:31and that's a big word because i don't
435. 14:32hardly ever use those words like if and
436. 14:35maybe i'm not insecure about anything
437. 14:38but if
438. 14:40you have a thought in your mind about
439. 14:42what i'm thinking
440. 14:44is that what i'm thinking
441. 14:46or is that what you're thinking i'm
442. 14:48thinking
443. 14:51everyone says
444. 14:52we know what you were doing with all
445. 14:54those women
446. 14:55i said no
447. 14:56you know what you would have been doing
448. 14:58with all those women and you think
449. 15:00that's what i would be doing with all
450. 15:01those women because that's what you need
451. 15:03to think now
452. 15:05you've spent all this time over there in
453. 15:08that women's prison listening to all the
454. 15:10particulars of what women do in and out
455. 15:13of criminology and crime
456. 15:17judges
457. 15:18and robes
458. 15:22have i ever lied to you about anything
459. 15:26have i
460. 15:27ever
461. 15:28lied about
462. 15:30anyone to anybody about anything
463. 15:32is there any time and all the time
464. 15:34you've known me
465. 15:36have i ever told you anything that
466. 15:37wasn't right or true
467. 15:40what's the first word that comes to mind
468. 15:41when you think of those two women
469. 15:43uh leslie um don't know me leslie was
470. 15:47only at that ranch a couple minutes but
471. 15:49today patty i'm surprised
472. 15:52uh patty has picked up a lot of
473. 15:54of a lot of suffering now here's the
474. 15:57thing you stand for a cause and that
475. 15:59cause begins to crumble and you crumble
476. 16:01with the cause because you don't have to
477. 16:02hold on you have nothing to hold and you
478. 16:04fall up underneath everybody else's
479. 16:06opinion and you're turned around by what
480. 16:08they think because you're looking back
481. 16:10off in society and she's not been to
482. 16:12jail long enough to know that society
483. 16:14that she's thinking about is not the
484. 16:16society that's really going on the
485. 16:18society 25 years ago that she has in her
486. 16:20mind is gone that society moved on
487. 16:22there's another back window on this trip
488. 16:24so the word for them
489. 16:26word yeah what are they give me a word
490. 16:28you are your faith lose it and you're
491. 16:34not we are done
492. 16:37is that right or wrong
493. 16:39it's true yeah
494. 16:41if they lost faith in what they did
495. 16:44that's on them i didn't lose faith
496. 16:55think of all the questions i expected
497. 16:56you to ask them can i go to the bathroom
498. 16:58is not the one that would have come to
499. 17:00mind hey hey look here man hey hey are
500. 17:02you to send me a copy of that sure
501. 17:06oh the the still yeah still pictures
502. 17:08i've been trying to get a steal one for
503. 17:10a long time man
504. 17:11well i don't know we gotta ask the
505. 17:13prison but we'll ask them
506. 17:16that you don't have to ask the mail room
507. 17:17they do things like that
508. 17:19excuse me
509. 17:20hold on
510. 17:22charlie they probably wanted to get
511. 17:23their picture taken with you let me look
512. 17:24seriously what are you going to look
513. 17:26serious
514. 17:28yeah
515. 17:29are you taking money
516. 17:35yeah get one with uh with diane
517. 17:41let me get on here
518. 17:43[Music]
519. 17:56what part
520. 17:57is born in the south uh near tennessee
521. 18:01and grew up in louisville here we go one
522. 18:04two
523. 18:05great my uncle wormy
524. 18:08died in louisville not just take a
525. 18:09couple
526. 18:10trying to save the atmosphere when the
527. 18:12tennessee valley authority came in
528. 18:14we started cc camps back then my
529. 18:16grandfather started the cc camps before
530. 18:18the second world war
531. 18:20and then when the second world war came
532. 18:21on they forgot to see sea camps now when
533. 18:23you introduce red when you talk to red
534. 18:26red started the cc camp back
535. 18:28[Music]
536. 18:30i'm telling you those those children did
537. 18:31right
538. 18:33it's just sad that there wasn't more of
539. 18:35them
540. 18:36[Music]
541. 18:38the world's coming to an end you were
542. 18:40born in ohio right your atmosphere is
543. 18:42dying my mother ran off from ashland
544. 18:43kentucky and went to ohio
545. 18:46[Music]
546. 18:50college you know everybody likes this he
547. 18:52wants a picture of you everybody likes
548. 18:53that evil character they created you
549. 18:55know you know that guy with the eyes
550. 19:00you got to realize man all the guys
551. 19:02you've been creating are not really real
552. 19:04in real life man
553. 19:07all right hold on
554. 19:08don't forget me on those pictures of
555. 19:10them
556. 19:11there's just one just one just one
557. 19:13little one i'm standing there
558. 19:15that's fine that's fine
559. 19:18[Music]
560. 19:20thank you let me give you all some
561. 19:21another thing will you please yeah
562. 19:23everybody says i'm five foot two
563. 19:26when i was arrested i was five foot
564. 19:27seven then i went down to five foot six
565. 19:29then i went down to five foot and i went
566. 19:31to four feet now i'm down to five feet
567. 19:33two three zombie five feet by the time
568. 19:35that you all die i'll be about three
569. 19:37feet tall
570. 19:38so how tall are you charlie five six
571. 19:41okay and three quarters
572. 19:49charlie you were real nice thank you