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1,5 Millones vendidos en un Mes: Esto es lo que nadie te cuenta — Transcript

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0:00The first launches are like, "Wow,
0:02someone made a ton of money." And it's
0:04like, "Okay, do it again." And most
0:07can't repeat it. You generated 1.5
0:09million with an info-product, and you
0:12were behind it. What was that
0:14info-product about?
0:15It was about learning to play the piano
0:16.
0:16Judith Tierno was one of the first to
0:18enter the world of info-products when
0:20almost no one knew this market. She
0:23managed to build one of the launch
0:24agencies with over 30 people and
0:26participate in million-dollar campaigns
0:27. Today you will discover what it takes
0:30to generate revenue online, how much to
0:32invest to grow, and why a
0:33million-dollar launch doesn't always
0:35mean having a profitable and
0:36sustainable business.
0:38Very big promises are made that cannot
0:40be kept later, and that's where the
0:42problems come in.
0:44And what differentiates an info-product
0:46that generates thousands of euros from
0:48a launch that generates millions? that
0:52everyone has to generate a million or
0:54whatever. And there are really very
0:57healthy businesses that generate less,
0:59which sometimes even have better profit
1:02margins. If you don't sell, you don't
1:03have a business, right? So your
1:05obsession should be to build a sales
1:07machine.
1:08What is the rhythm of a launch?
1:10It is true that when it comes to online
1:12business, the level of stress is high,
1:14it's not for everyone. In the agency, I
1:16ended up getting burned out again. It
1:18was an important reflection to say, "
1:20Wow, as always, the problem isn't
1:21outside, it's inside."
1:23And a mediocre product with brilliant
1:25marketing beats a brilliant product
1:27with mediocre marketing. Judith Tierno,
1:34welcome to "Sin Red."
1:36How are you, Alexandra? Delighted to be
1:38here.
1:39You have been part of the biggest
1:41Spanish-speaking digital launches of
1:44recent years. What is the biggest lie
1:47that people still believe today about
1:49selling on the internet?
1:51I think that unfortunately, there is
1:54still a lot of belief that, well, that
1:57it's easy, right, to sell on the
1:59internet. And the reality is that,
2:02especially nowadays, where there is a
2:04lot of competition and the sector has
2:06become so professionalized, I mean,
2:08it's complicated and you have to take
2:10it as a serious business, huh? Not like
2:14, well, which happens a lot, "Well, I'm
2:16going to test if this works for me
2:18online," and it's like, well, if you
2:20take it as a business, then you will
2:22surely end up making it work because
2:24you will find the way, and if not, no.
2:27In other words, you will make it work.
2:29If you take it seriously, you'll make
2:30it work, but if you don't take it
2:32seriously and treat it like a game,
2:34like just spending a Sunday,
2:35then obviously it won't work, right?
2:37Totally, totally. And also the thing is
2:40, it seems like with online businesses
2:43you don't have to invest, and well,
2:45sure, you can do your part and be a bit
2:48of a one-man band, but you won't be
2:50able to do everything and do it well.
2:54Hm. You have to invest in a minimum
2:57team to help you with the things you
2:59don't master, you know? Because if not,
3:03you're going to be, I mean, you're
3:05going to be shooting in the dark. And I
3:09don't know, you come from the
3:10restaurant business, for example; I
3:12mean, if I decide to open a restaurant
3:14tomorrow and I'm not a chef, it's one
3:16of two things: either I'm in the
3:18kitchen and have staff hired around me,
3:20or I'll have to hire a good chef, right
3:22? I mean, it's common sense. Well, in
3:26the end, it's the same in an online
3:28business, and sometimes it seems like:
3:30"Well, I can be a one-man band and just
3:32scrape by." And look, that might work a
3:35little at the beginning, but you have
3:37to start changing your mindset and
3:39thinking that you have a business. If
3:42you really want to have a business,
3:44you're going to need, well, a number of
3:47things.
3:48Do you believe, Judith, that anyone can
3:50sell online today? Well, nowadays I
3:53think since COVID, it's been proven
3:56that yes, right? That even things you
3:59never would have imagined being done
4:02online have moved, or in some way found
4:05their formula to enter the online world
4:08. So maybe not everything, but
4:11certainly a great, great many sectors.
4:13Yes. And what differentiates an
4:15info-product or a launch that makes
4:17thousands of euros from a launch that
4:20makes millions, Judith? The team behind
4:23it, the team behind it all. I mean, to
4:26do a launch that makes, I don't know,
4:28seven figures, right? To have a million
4:32in revenue on a launch, it's because
4:34there's a professional team behind it
4:36that has a lot of experience, where
4:38there's also a large investment in
4:40traffic, in advertising. Uh, yes,
4:43basically sometimes there are some,
4:46there still are. The other day I was
4:48seeing one about, well, you know? About
4:50a girl who came up with a content
4:52creation style that’s become really
4:54famous, "yapping." Uh, now suddenly
4:56everyone on social media is talking
4:58about yapping. Basically, it’s
5:00sitting down to talk as if you were
5:02having a conversation with a friend.
5:05Well, it hasn't blown up
5:06without talking to anyone.
5:07Without talking to anyone. But I come
5:09and tell you about it as if I were
5:10having a coffee with you, right? With
5:12that natural feel. Uh, well, this woman
5:15has created a whole strategy and, with
5:18a low-ticket product, she’s managed
5:20to gross, uh, a million or more. Uh,
5:25and I’m not sure if she invested in
5:27ads, uh, or not, because obviously I
5:29don’t have the data from that launch,
5:31but there are very few of these that
5:33hit it big like that nowadays; there
5:35are very few because the market is
5:37already quite mature.
5:40Of course, man, you’d have to analyze
5:43how long that girl has been working,
5:45building a community, and analyzing her
5:47audience's needs very well. Totally, to
5:51find that niche, right? From a
5:55marketing perspective, packaging it,
5:57giving it a name, and selling it. Yes,
5:59yes.
5:59What did you say it's called?
6:00Yapping.
6:01Yapping. Well
6:02yes, which is basically like prattling
6:04on. The translation, right?,of the word
6:06is like prattling, which in the end is
6:08just talking naturally.
6:09Well look, we’ve already learned a
6:11new word in this episode. Whenever I
6:13learn a new word, I look up the meaning
6:15, because I know that right now I
6:16don’t know what it is, but in 10
6:18minutes I will. Therefore, I’m
6:21already a new version of myself in the
6:22sense that I know more than I did
6:24before.
6:24Totally,
6:25because it’s also a business model
6:27that is completely innovative, and many
6:29people don't know what a launch is or
6:32what it’s like to be part of a launch
6:34agency, and you’ve had the luck of
6:36being part of that. Exactly. To put it
6:39in context, you guys grossed 1.5
6:42million with an info-product
6:44and you were behind it. What was that
6:47info-product about? Well, that
6:49info-product was something no one
6:51usually expects, which was about
6:52learning to play the piano, for example
6:54. So, there’s a very, very large
6:57market beyond just finance or how to
6:59make money online, which are usually
7:00the typical launches.
7:04And besides info-products, what other
7:06sectors have you been in? so many, I
7:09mean, investment topics, uh, learning
7:12languages or learning English, uh,
7:15finance topics, I think several, but
7:18well, ultimately I think that for many
7:21things the agency model really allows
7:24you to experiment with many with many
7:28niches, many sectors. Yes.
7:30Do you consider, Judith, that you were
7:31there at the perfect time? Well, I was
7:35there at the initial moment, which was
7:37certainly an ideal time to be there,
7:39because the market hasn't been maturing
7:41, as is normal, because in the end it
7:42happens with any with any sector, that
7:44it keeps maturing and maturing and, in
7:46the initial moment, of course, there
7:48are some experiences and some moments
7:54that, well, it's a very beautiful time
7:56to be in a in a market.
7:59Right, because to provide context, what
8:00year are we talking about, Judith? I
8:03started with sales funnels in 2015,
8:05which was when I started
8:06entrepreneurship,
8:08and from there it evolved,
8:11since I was a couple of years as a
8:13freelancer and it evolved into the
8:15launch agency topic around 2017, more
8:17or less, which is almost 10 years,
8:21no more, no less, eh, it's said quickly
8:23, right? And besides, it's a very very
8:26new market and very unknown to most
8:28people. That's why this conversation
8:30we're going to have today is very
8:31interesting, because I think we're
8:32going to shed some light on this
8:34business model as well. But when you
8:36were at the launch agency, how many
8:37people were there?
8:39Well, we reached about 30 or 35,
8:42something like that. There was a moment
8:46when it was indeed very big or, well,
8:48quite quite big, yes.
8:50And what percentage does a launch
8:52agency take? One second before we
8:54continue. On the internet, it's very
8:55easy to talk about success. The hard
8:57part is understanding what's behind a
8:58business that really works. And on Sin
9:01Red, we sit down with women who have
9:03built companies, have launched
9:05businesses, and have made decisions
9:06that changed their path to discover
9:08what is usually not told. If this
9:11conversation is adding value to you,
9:13help us with a gesture that costs you
9:14nothing, 3 seconds, and allows us to
9:16keep bringing conversations like this
9:18one. Subscribe, share this episode, or
9:21leave us a comment. And now, yes, we
9:24continue with Judith.
9:25Look, there are several models. Uh, the
9:28standard is usually 50%. In fact, the
9:33concept of, I mean, calling it an
9:34agency is kind of weird because it
9:36seems like you're hiring a service
9:38provider, but at the same time it's
9:40like half of your business. We invest
9:43equally, I mean, I invest 50%with you
9:46and I trust you, your business, and we
9:48get 50%, and each party assumes a
9:51series of team costs, right? What
9:54involves marketing and such is usually
9:55assumed by the agency, and what
9:57involves product is usually assumed by
9:59the infoproducer. But of course, in the
10:01end, it’s not an agency providing you
10:03services, it’s a growth partner with
10:05you, right? That has the knowledge of
10:07the strategy, of what is working in the
10:10market. It usually has, right? Well, a
10:14diversity of clients, niches, and also
10:17sales funnels, right? To stay up to
10:21date in this business and understand
10:22what is working at any given moment,
10:24because of course, this evolves very
10:26quickly. So, from there, there are
10:29other modalities, right? There are
10:31agencies that, hey, they don't assume a
10:33certain part, or they do, others that
10:35don't assume another. Yes. So, based on
10:39that, the percentages are also adjusted
10:42.
10:43You’ve said they have been changing
10:45over the years. What are the margins
10:47today? This depends a lot; I mean,
10:51there isn't a figure I could give you,
10:54because this isn't standard and it also
10:58depends on how long the person has been
11:01doing it, but well, what's normal or a
11:04healthy business is beyond company
11:07margins, because there can be a lot of
11:10issues, right? Whether you then have
11:13training or not in what you have left
11:16in the P&L, let's say. But in a launch,
11:19for it to be healthy and for the
11:21numbers to work out when you are
11:24already growing, right? In the initial
11:26ones. Well, in the initial ones, what
11:27is normal or for it to be healthy is
11:29that you should have very high ROIs.
11:31That is to say, if I put an amount x
11:34into advertising, I multiply it by 10,
11:38or well, by 10 is a lot, huh? But I am
11:42talking about very, very initial stages
11:44of the business. Now, when it is
11:46already established, what is healthy
11:48for the numbers to work out is to
11:50multiply the money by four. Mind you,
11:54this is not net, you know? Uh, it’s
11:57important to keep that in mind, but yes
12:00, for launch or sales funnel metrics,
12:02that would be it: being between three
12:04and four, so the business is healthy,
12:06because then obviously there are a
12:08series of costs behind it, which will
12:11depend on or determine the profit
12:13margin you'll have in your company.
12:16And what are the mistakes that launch
12:18agencies usually make? Well, it’s a
12:22fairly complex business because in the
12:24end, you need to have quite a few
12:26pieces to be able to do a launch, right
12:29? You offering the service of providing
12:31the launch. So, really, until you build
12:35a team, I think that’s the biggest
12:38pain for entrepreneurs, but I think
12:40that, in general, it’s not just a
12:43digital sector issue; the matter of a
12:45team that works is one of the most
12:48complex things, right? And developing
12:53the team as such, I mean, so, mistakes.
13:00Mmm, sure, there can be many, right?
13:04But I think that in the end it depends,
13:06I mean, trusting the team you have when
13:09they might not really have enough
13:12experience yet. And the issue of
13:18clients is also very complex in the
13:21launch agency business, precisely
13:23because you are a business partner, but
13:26often it’s likely that the person you
13:29are working with doesn't see you as
13:32their partner, right? And once the
13:36business is set up and has grown a lot,
13:38it often happens. In fact, it’s quite
13:42normal for the client to tell you, "
13:44Well, I don't need you anymore because
13:46you’ve set up the business for me and
13:48it’s running, so now, why do I need
13:50you?" And that happens a lot.
13:52You open the agency, get clients, and
13:54manage to invoice, but often a
13:56stagnation arrives, right? An
13:59entrepreneur who is right now at that
14:02point where their agency is stagnant,
14:04what would you tell them they can do to
14:07keep selling? But surely there are
14:10other little things that need to be
14:11improved before continuing to sell.
14:15If your business is stagnant, it’s
14:17difficult to give a solution like "it's
14:20this," right? The business world is
14:23quite a bit more complex, but you
14:28probably have to do—I mean, the first
14:30thing is to look at the finances, I
14:31mean, what is happening? What money is
14:34coming in? From where? How? Right? What
14:37return on investment are you getting?
14:39And what money is leaving, where from,
14:42and how? And have your finances super
14:45clear because from there you will be
14:47able to start making decisions.
14:51Sometimes we want businesses to always
14:54grow and often it is necessary to
14:56reinvest, to grow the team to be able
14:59to handle more of the load. I mean, it
15:02is not black and white, I wish it were,
15:05but it is quite a bit more complex. So,
15:08what is it exactly, right? I mean, why
15:12are you stuck? You need to understand
15:14that, what is happening. Because if you
15:17don't have clarity on what is happening
15:19, you won't be able to solve it. You
15:22will live in a fog, and if you are not
15:24able to reach the "why," hire someone
15:27to give you that outside perspective:
15:29some business consultant, some mentor
15:31who can help you analyze that, because
15:34it's true that sometimes we are very
15:36deep in the kitchen or, when it is our
15:38own business, uh, it may be that we are
15:41not always as objective as we should be
15:43, right?,because obviously there is an
15:45emotional component that links us to
15:48the business. So, if you don't see it,
15:52look for help, but you need to
15:54understand what has you stuck and that
15:56is given to you by the numbers, the
15:58metrics.
16:00If you had a budget of 10,000, would
16:02you invest it in content? Would you
16:04invest it in a team or would you invest
16:06it in advertising?
16:08I would invest a part, I mean, if I
16:10have 10,000, I assume that it's because
16:12we are starting the business and we
16:14have that budget there. A part would go
16:18to the team because it's impossible for
16:20me to know how to do everything well.
16:23So, something, even if I train myself
16:25and so on, I would need to outsource
16:26something, even if it's just a little,
16:28right? A freelancer who offers you
16:31something specific and the rest in
16:33advertising. If I were starting out, I
16:36wouldn't invest financially in content,
16:38I mean, I would do it with the means I
16:40could have within my reach. Maybe buy a
16:43mic if I don't have one, something very
16:45basic, and the rest to advertising.
16:47What would you say, Judit, to people
16:49who believe that just by creating
16:50content you can already do a launch? To
16:53start, it can be fine. If you are also
16:57launching something new and haven't
16:58sold anything to your audience yet, uh,
17:01well, hey, if you've worked really hard
17:03, right?,on your content and you have a
17:05loyal community that follows you, it
17:07can be very good. The thing is that
17:10when you do a launch to your community,
17:12well, a part of it will buy from you
17:14and another part won't. And that's
17:16perfect. I mean, it's normal that not
17:18everyone buys from you. And of course,
17:21there will come a time when you launch
17:23again, and the issue is that organic
17:25reach doesn't give you enough time to
17:27regenerate your audience fast enough,
17:29compared to if you invested in
17:30advertising. Even if you go viral, it's
17:34really hard to maintain a sustainable
17:36growth rate to relaunch and keep your
17:38business profitable and sustainable
17:41over time. That is, creating that
17:44hybrid between cold traffic and warm
17:46traffic—the people who already follow
17:47you—is, let's say, the perfect cycle
17:49for regeneration. Totally, it's
17:52necessary.
17:52Very important, what you just said.
17:54Totally, because otherwise, you'll find
17:57that it often happens where the first
17:59launches are like, "Wow, someone made
18:02so much money, right?" And on their
18:05first launch, it's like, "Okay, do it
18:07again, let's see if you can repeat it."
18:09And most of them can't repeat it, huh?
18:13Or they have to do very precise
18:15calculations on how much to invest,
18:17especially those who relied on organic
18:20reach for their first launch and didn't
18:22invest in advertising.
18:24Right, because you get hit hard when
18:26you try to repeat it.
18:28Exactly, exactly. That's why I tell you
18:31that even if you have communities from
18:33the first launch, buy cold traffic and
18:35get metrics. I mean, do it right so you
18:37can separate the cold traffic metrics
18:39because that's what will allow you to
18:41grow later, you know? Even if you say,
18:43"How great, I've built this community
18:45and that will allow me to cash in."
18:47That's great. But you need metrics
18:52beyond your community, for people who
18:55don't know you, how convincing you are,
18:58right? How many people you can convince
19:01who don't know you and don't follow you
19:03, because that's where the business
19:05really is. And a mediocre product with
19:08brilliant marketing beats a brilliant
19:12product with mediocre marketing.
19:15The truth is, yes. I mean, obviously in
19:19the long run, if you don't have a good
19:21product, your business will eventually
19:23collapse, okay? Because you won't have
19:26testimonials, you won't have, well, you
19:28know? The other things that are also
19:30needed to sustain the product, I mean,
19:31the business. But at the start, good
19:35marketing is what will make people buy.
19:38I mean, that's just how it is. If you
19:42have good marketing and you're smart,
19:44but your product isn't the best because
19:46you're just starting out and lack
19:48experience, you must always, always
19:50include surveys within the product to
19:53hear the customer's truth. And if what
19:56they’re telling you is that they
19:57don’t like it, perfect, take note and
19:59fix it. So, if you really have a good
20:02sales funnel but a mediocre product, be
20:05smart and improve it, because in the
20:08long run, that will bring you many
20:10benefits. A good product is what will
20:13sustain the business in the long run;
20:15having a good product is key. I love
20:17listening to you, Judit, because I have
20:20more experience in the conventional
20:22sector, and as I listen to you, I see
20:24many similarities between digital
20:26entrepreneurship and conventional
20:27entrepreneurship. But in the end, I
20:30realize that it’s all very intuitive
20:32and very A, B, and C in the sense that:
20:34hey, you have to listen to the person
20:36in front of you, because no matter how
20:38much you make in a launch, don’t
20:40think you're the king of the world, and
20:42don't think you'll make the same in the
20:44next seven editions or even the second
20:46one you do.
20:48No, no, totally, totally. And notice
20:51that sometimes we forget that in online
20:53businesses because it seems like, since
20:55you don't have the person right in
20:57front of you, right? Like in a physical
20:59business, it feels like everything is
21:02just numbers and digital, right? And
21:04it's a screen, but these are people; I
21:07mean, behind every single sale, there
21:09is a person. So, you can never forget
21:15this, never. And in fact, what is truly
21:21essential is not to take for granted
21:23that you have a good product. Never.
21:28Survey, survey, survey, and improve,
21:30improve, improve constantly. You have
21:33to really work hard on the product so
21:35you achieve what you promise—that is,
21:38your product must truly fulfill its
21:41promise—because that's what happens
21:43many times: very big promises are made
21:46that can't be fulfilled later, and
21:48that's where the problems start. And
21:51above all, perhaps not focusing so much
21:53on the numbers, right? We often only
21:55think about the figures, especially in
21:57digital entrepreneurship, so we should
21:59focus more on what you mentioned, on
22:00what you say: customer satisfaction and
22:02having a good product, because that is
22:04what will allow you to stay in business
22:06in the long term.
22:07Totally, totally.
22:08And especially the reputation, because
22:10I always say, reputation
22:12that is invaluable. And a trademark,
22:14well, you can adjust it, but a personal
22:16brand, which in the end is the brand of
22:19the creators, the one behind all info
22:20products,
22:21that is forever. You can't change your
22:24face.
22:25Totally, totally. Yes, yes, yes. No,
22:27it's just literally like that. And do
22:30you also think we've gone a bit
22:32overboard with the term economic
22:35figures in the world of digital
22:37entrepreneurship, launches, info
22:39products, and that often we don't value
22:42earning a bit less, but putting it into
22:44context, that it covers many people's
22:47salaries? Totally, yes, yes. In fact,
22:50of course, the launches that get the
22:52most visibility are obviously the big
22:54ones, right? And that's great because
22:58it's also a huge inspiration. The thing
23:02is, sometimes it feels like a bubble
23:04has formed in the digital world, right?
23:06That everyone has to make a million or
23:09whatever, right? Giant figures like
23:12that and in reality, there are very
23:16healthy businesses that make less. That
23:20sometimes even have better profit
23:22margins, which is something that I
23:27think you learn over time while doing
23:30this, but it is the most important
23:33thing for your business. And yes, it's
23:37not about the revenue and having a huge
23:40launch and everything that implies. I
23:43mean, you can live very well without
23:46losing your perspective with this topic
23:48of giant figures, right? And also, what
23:51I was telling you before, right? I was
23:53talking to a collaborator on my team
23:56about a campaign, and this is a real
23:58campaign that we billed, right? A bill
24:02we sent recently, which was 30-
24:05something thousand from a campaign we
24:08did, and she said, "Wow, we only made,
24:11I don't know, 32,000, for example." And
24:16I said to her, "Well, wait, there are
24:17people who earn this in a year, okay?
24:21Obviously, at a business level, that
24:23doesn't mean I put this in my pocket,
24:25there are a series of costs behind it
24:27and so on, but we also have to learn to
24:29gain perspective, right?" There’s a
24:33lot of hype surrounding the online
24:34world, and it seems like everyone has
24:36to be doing it, or else you’re doing
24:38it wrong. But no, in the end, it’s
24:41just campaigns. And stop looking at
24:44others for inspiration, but above all,
24:46don't compare yourself, just say: "Hey,
24:48I’m on my own path, I have a
24:50profitable business." Thinking
24:54long-term is the most important thing,
24:57and focusing on how you are growing
25:00your project step by step.
25:03What would you tell someone who is just
25:05starting their digital venture after
25:07everything you've experienced? The most
25:10important thing is to sell. Selling to
25:14sustain yourself financially. I mean,
25:18obviously, if you don't sell, you don't
25:20have a business, right? So, build. I
25:24mean, your obsession should be building
25:26a sales engine. In the case of online
25:29businesses, that means sales funnels,
25:31okay? Build a machine that works, that
25:35you can feed traffic into, that you can
25:38send your organic audience to; a
25:40machine that ultimately convinces
25:43people to get on a call where you can
25:45sell to them, explain your product, or
25:48some other way. But yes, the sales
25:53engine of your business is where you
25:55should invest most of your time in the
25:58initial phase, along with balancing it
26:00with having a good product, as we said
26:03before. So those are the two pillars:
26:06how you sell and how you deliver at the
26:09beginning. Later on, you can. Make it
26:13as complex as you want, but for someone
26:14who is just starting, right? Sales
26:17machine and product. Notice that
26:20community is becoming increasingly
26:22important, because years ago, since
26:25there wasn't as much supply, the market
26:28was greener or more virgin, let's say,
26:31and it was much easier. To offer things
26:34through advertising, do a huge launch,
26:37even if people didn't know you. Now
26:40it's much harder to sell online because
26:42there is much more supply and the
26:44market has matured. It’s true that
26:47since 2020, a lot of people have
26:50entered online business, the world of
26:53info-products, selling online training;
26:55and of course, that has created
26:58saturation and, at the same time,
27:00forced us to become more professional.
27:04It's just that now it's not enough to
27:06just open an Instagram account and
27:07that's it, right? Now there are 5,000
27:10like you, so you have to work for it,
27:12and that is super important. And that's
27:14why it's so important to create a
27:16community, beyond just the audience you
27:18can reach; you need to create that
27:20community, that real bond with a
27:22portion, right?,of the people you are
27:24going to reach.
27:26Do you think that besides creating a
27:27community, which is obviously
27:28fundamental, investing in advertising
27:30is necessary? Yes, at least, well, from
27:33my point of view, organic is great and
27:36I think that, in the end, it's
27:38essential to work on organic traffic.
27:41It is absolutely essential, but it is
27:44not the only way. And really, if you
27:48want to maintain a healthy business,
27:51you should have different sources of
27:54traffic, right? Different ways for
27:57people to reach your business, and you
27:59can't just stick with one. Because if
28:02it fails one day, as has happened 1,000
28:05times, and suddenly you say, "Wow, what
28:08do I do now?" Well, instead of waiting
28:10for that, "Wow, what do I do now?" If
28:12you have different entry points to your
28:14business, different sources, you're
28:16going to have a much healthier business
28:19. And with the topic of advertising,
28:21there is sometimes a lot of stigma,
28:22right? As if organic were somehow
28:25better. And nowadays, with the amount
28:28of information we are hit with, since
28:31we are so saturated, sometimes there
28:33might be people in organic who follow
28:35you and don't even really know who you
28:38are. Because this comes from the fact
28:40that, historically, it was considered
28:42that organic traffic was higher quality
28:44because they paid more attention to you
28:46, they knew you, they had taken the
28:48trouble, and now it's practically more
28:50or less the same. I mean, they are
28:52different ways of reaching people and
28:54it doesn't have to be a more loyal
28:56audience; rather, how you treat those
28:58people, where you move them, what you
29:00offer them, how you nurture them, that
29:02is where the key lies, not so much on
29:04whether you run ads or not. And
29:06advertising will help you grow, of
29:08course.
29:08Sure, you are in a situation and maybe
29:10your advertising fails or your organic
29:12content fails. Have you experienced a
29:14situation like that you can share, so
29:16people might say, hey, maybe this is
29:17what I went through too, or this is the
29:19mistake I’m about to make and I’m
29:21not even aware I’m going to make it?
29:24Look, I don’t think there’s anyone
29:26who has sold online seriously who
29:28hasn’t had an account get banned at
29:30some point. With the influencer trend,
29:34this idea has been created that I have
29:36my business there on Instagram, but
29:38Instagram isn’t yours; Instagram
29:39changes the terms just like that, and
29:41you no longer have a business. If you
29:44stop having reach and stop reaching
29:46people, well, you have a serious
29:47problem. So, you need to be able to own
29:52that audience yourself, move them to an
29:54email list or some platform where you
29:57really, or WhatsApp groups, et cetera,
29:59but some platform where you are the
30:02owner of that audience and not
30:04Instagram or TikTok or whatever, okay?
30:08And that is the big difference that
30:10many people still don’t quite get,
30:13because of the whole influencer
30:15business that’s emerged today, which
30:17is very different from infoproducts.
30:20Because, in the end, being a content
30:22creator is one thing, and selling
30:24programs is another; even though they
30:26sometimes seem to overlap, the business
30:28model is totally different. What you
30:32just said is very important, that
30:33distinction, because from the outside,
30:34many people confuse them.
30:36And it is important that you highlight
30:39that they are not at all the same and
30:41that they are two completely different
30:43business models.
30:45Not at all. In fact, if I plan on being
30:48a content creator, right? For example,
30:51developing a YouTube channel or, well,
30:54different models, right? On social
30:57platforms and so on. In the end, what I
31:00want is for my content to reach as many
31:01people as possible; and what I’m
31:03going to focus on, or what I’m going
31:05to center my business on, is the
31:06content itself and the reach of that
31:08content, whether it’s to monetize, I
31:10don’t know, monetizing the YouTube
31:11channel, doing collaborations with
31:13brands, affiliate marketing, different
31:15models that exist within the branch of
31:16content creation, okay? But it's a
31:20different story when I want to sell a
31:23program, and that’s where you really
31:25see the clear difference between an
31:28audience and a community, because reach
31:30is one thing, and as a content creator,
31:33platforms usually require a component
31:35of entertainment or learning, right? A
31:40reason for that content to keep people
31:42hooked on the platform. However, if
31:46what I'm selling you is a program or a
31:49course, first of all, there has to be
31:51something structured behind it; there
31:54has to be a very good product for it to
31:57work, and that's where you need to earn
32:00much more trust from your audience so
32:02they actually invest in you and buy.
32:06What would be, let's say, the standard
32:08sales funnel to convert an info-product
32:11? In the end, there's always a part
32:13where, let's call it the registration,
32:15right, where the person leaves their
32:17data, whether it's an email or joining
32:19a WhatsApp group, somehow, right, they
32:21stay in touch with you outside of
32:23social media, right? And from there, in
32:27some way, you convey that information,
32:31whether through videos or a webinar, a
32:34series of audios, maybe a more private
32:37podcast, different options, and
32:40eventually, you make an offer. I mean,
32:43those are the basic steps, and from
32:46there you can make it as complex as you
32:48want or keep it to simpler models.
32:50There was a lot of controversy. Let's
32:52see, what do you think, Judith, about
32:53the idea that webinars are going out of
32:55style? Every other day I see info, "No,
32:57they're not going out of style now.""No
32:58, they are going out of style now,""No,
33:01now there's a better way to do it."
33:03What do you think, VSL or webinar? I
33:06don't think there's any sales funnel
33:08that doesn't work. Okay, the thing is
33:11that we are saturated precisely because
33:13of market maturity. In the beginning, I
33:16remember you'd say, "I'm going to do a
33:18course with four free classes," right?
33:21That was the launch. And people would
33:23say, "Wow, four free classes, I'm going
33:24to sign up.""And now, of course, when
33:28you've already attended 50 and you know
33:30what they're going to tell you and that
33:33they'll eventually make you an offer,
33:36well, with all the saturation we have,
33:38it's not that launches or webinars
33:41don't work; all sales funnels work. The
33:44thing is, what has decreased a lot is
33:47the attention people pay to us. I mean,
33:50how many people actually show up for
33:51the webinar? How many people watch the
33:53videos? Many people are waiting, you
33:57know? I'm often the first one to sign
34:00up to see launches to see, you know,
34:02what's new in the market, and I wait
34:04until the end to see, okay, what offer
34:06are they making me? What are they
34:07offering? How is it, so I don't have to
34:09watch all the videos? And that is what
34:11the consumer does, we are so saturated
34:14that we no longer have time. So,
34:16everything works. The thing is, we're
34:20back to professionalizing because now
34:22you have to work harder at it. What are
34:24you offering me so that I show up live
34:27to see you? What are you going to tell
34:29me? Hm. Tell me something, because if
34:32not, I'm not going to invest my time in
34:34that. So, well, you have to know how to
34:37do better and better marketing, which
34:39is not easy.
34:40It is not easy. It is not easy.
34:42And what is the difference, Judith,
34:44between an info-product that grows and
34:46an info-product that disappears after a
34:49while? Mm. Normally, let's see, there
34:53are many factors why it might disappear
34:56, right? But above all, that you have a
34:59good product, and that you end up
35:01creating a solid business, okay? It is
35:05true that nowadays it is not that easy
35:06because traffic costs have gone up a
35:08lot. If you really want to grow your
35:11business and you are investing, you
35:14have to be a master of advertising. And
35:18the difference is that years ago
35:20traffic costs were much cheaper, so it
35:22was much easier to grow a business.
35:26Nowadays it is no longer that simple
35:27because not only has attention dropped,
35:29but costs have also risen. So, when you
35:31take the entrepreneur's side and start
35:34crunching the numbers, the
35:35profitability of this business model is
35:38no longer what it once was, right? Back
35:41then you used to hear very exorbitant
35:43figures, so it's not impossible, but it
35:45is becoming increasingly difficult.
35:48Therefore, we return to
35:49professionalizing.
35:52I mean, today there isn't as much of a
35:54profit margin as there was perhaps 10
35:56years ago.
35:56Totally. No, no, that's 100%correct.
36:00Yes.
36:01And what is a piece of advice you keep
36:03hearing repeated in the industry that
36:05is completely false? Well, precisely
36:08what I was telling you, I think
36:09there’s a lot of stigma around
36:10advertising, right? As if it were
36:13better if you created content and
36:15didn't invest in advertising. And
36:18sometimes, really, to make good content
36:20, the amount of time behind it, and if
36:23you also, uh, need to—because you
36:25don't have the means or depending on
36:27how you want to do it, right? If you
36:30want to have someone film you or a
36:32studio or whatever, I mean, in the end,
36:34it seems like content is free, and it
36:36isn't. In the end, those are also hours
36:39of your time you invest, and that also
36:41has a cost. So, sometimes you have to
36:45weigh, well, what's more worth it, I
36:47mean, what has a better return, because
36:49in the end that’s it, what has a
36:51higher return? And many people who
36:55maybe don't want to invest in
36:57advertising, or who have that, you know
36:59, that idea, that belief, if they
37:02dedicated or invested a little and
37:04crunched the numbers, maybe it would
37:06even be more profitable than organic.
37:09So, well, yes, I think it's something
37:11that is quite misunderstood, or also
37:13what you were saying, right, that there
37:15are sales funnels that don't work. All
37:17sales funnels work, but you have to
37:20work harder and be smarter and
37:23understand your audience better. That's
37:26the point, really understanding what
37:28the people you are addressing need.
37:31And above all, helping, because often
37:33we forget that when you start a
37:34business, it's to help, not to feed
37:35your ego.
37:37Totally, totally, totally. And in the
37:40end, making money is a consequence, but
37:42if you aren't able to convey, right,
37:44how you are going to help that person,
37:47then obviously it's hard for sales to
37:49come your way. Totally.
37:52Because you, Judit, when you started
37:54your business,
37:55did you have any knowledge about
37:56entrepreneurship? No way, I had nothing
37:59, I mean, I had no clue. It’s been 10
38:03years of learning, well, of learning
38:05through trial and error,
38:08like everyone,
38:09like many, like the majority, right? At
38:11least in this sector. Yeah, and
38:14basically that, but no clue, no clue. I
38:17mean, a number of mistakes, uh, that
38:20I've been, well, learning the hard way,
38:23as we do, of course. And what is the
38:26biggest mistake you've made?
38:27Hm, when I started out as an
38:31entrepreneur, I offered freelance
38:33services, right? Marketing automation
38:36and sales funnel creation, that more
38:38technical side, because I came from the
38:40IT world, so it was all very easy for
38:42me. And since I came from a big
38:46consultancy firm, uh, I wanted or felt
38:49that the professional way was to work a
38:52certain way, right? And with budgets
38:55like this, I don't know how many, and
38:58so on, uh, and with a series of
39:00processes that, when you're a
39:01freelancer just starting out, uh, made
39:04no sense at all, none. So, some things
39:08were very good because it looked very
39:10professional for me to send you a
39:13digital contract to sign and all that,
39:15uh, but I really feel I lost agility
39:18because I wanted, right? Because of
39:22that idea I had in my head of what is
39:23professional,
39:26comparing myself to a consultancy,
39:27right? Having just left a huge
39:29consultancy firm. And how did you build
39:31that confidence to pick up the pace and
39:33to start a business and launch yourself
39:35outside of a company that backs
39:37you up? Well, for me, actually, uh,
39:42when I was at the consultancy, I had an
39:44anxiety attack; so I was on leave for a
39:46year. And I always say that's the worst
39:49and best thing that has ever happened
39:51to me, because I wouldn't wish it on my
39:53worst enemy, because it’s really
39:55tough to have a strong anxiety attack
39:57like that, but at the same time it
39:59forced me to ask myself what I wanted
40:01to do with my life and, from there,
40:03that's how I arrived, right?,at
40:04entrepreneurship. So, of course, I came
40:08from a personal process that was very
40:10tough until I recovered; and, in fact,
40:12even though, well, I came out, I
40:14reached an agreement with the company
40:17because I couldn't go back there and I
40:19left and, so I started, well, to move a
40:21bit however I could, right? In the end,
40:25you start, at that time, in Facebook
40:27groups, because of course, this was
40:29many years ago, you start interacting
40:31with people, you sign up for some
40:32training, uh, you start going to events
40:34, I went to many local events, right?
40:38I'm from Barcelona, so around the city,
40:41just to get moving in this scene and in
40:43the end you start to get your first
40:46clients.
40:48And in that initial stage, Judith, what
40:50do you remember being the hardest part?
40:54Gosh, at the beginning, it was really
40:56hard for me to get clients, you know?
41:00Now I think about it and say," Damn, a
41:02sales funnel with a little bit of ads,
41:04"but at the time, that didn't even
41:06cross my mind.
41:08Now you see it as simple.
41:09Of course, now I see it as common sense
41:11, right? What are you going to do?
41:12Absolutely, right? Yes, yes. But before
41:16, honestly, it didn't even occur to me,
41:18really. Judith, what made you switch,
41:22let's say, from the launch agency world
41:25to the project you have today? Well
41:30look, it’s been an evolution and,
41:32above all, seeing, okay, I burned out
41:34in the corporate world, right? I was on
41:36medical leave for a year, and of course
41:38, you think about starting a business,
41:39right? Because, of course, you set your
41:42own rules and whatnot, but then in the
41:44agency, I actually burned out again,
41:46right? And it was an important
41:49reflection to say," Wow, no, like
41:51always, the problem isn't out there,
41:53it's inside. How am I experiencing
41:55things? Uh, how am I processing it? How
41:58am I handling it? What do I have to
42:00learn from this so I don't burn out
42:02again? It is true that online business,
42:07and especially when doing big launches,
42:09is very demanding. The level of stress
42:13is high, I mean, I say it's not for
42:16everyone. The topic of doing launches
42:21has its own complexity in terms of
42:24stress, and, of course, burning out
42:28again was tough internally, and it
42:31brought me a lot, a lot of learning.
42:38And from there, later on, when I left
42:41the agency and I was with a partner, we
42:44only had one project that we grew a lot
42:47, and it reached a point where I saw I
42:51was on the path to burning out again,
42:54okay? I wasn't comfortable anymore, I
42:58could see that, well, in the end, I
43:01wasn't learning anything new here for
43:04me, and so you start to lose that
43:06excitement for the project, right? Um
43:13and then, well, I decided to face it,
43:16right? The difficult conversation of
43:18saying, either I get out of here or I
43:21sell, right?,where from the outside
43:23everything looks fine and it's crazy.
43:25But the thing is, internally I am not
43:27okay. And that has been my biggest
43:31lesson, not to reach that point again
43:34of burning out hard and seeing it
43:37sooner.
43:38For people to understand, what is the
43:41pace of a launch?
43:43The thing about a launch is, you've
43:45made a commitment to people, right? So
43:48it has to happen no matter what, huh?
43:51And everything has to be ready, and
43:53things always happen. There’s always,
43:56uh, things always happen, otherwise it
43:58wouldn't be a launch, right? Um, like
44:01if the ads aren't working, first the
44:03initial stage, right? When you're there
44:06, uh, inviting people, right? To the,
44:09to the launch. It’s rare that your
44:12costs don't skyrocket, that you don't
44:14have, well, things to improve, ads to
44:16stop, or that the budget is being eaten
44:18up. Well, yeah, right? Then, how do we
44:21get them to come see us live? Because
44:23people are very tired, or to get them
44:25to watch the videos, even if they're
44:26recorded, right? Whatever it is, how do
44:30we get more, uh, more attention during
44:33the launch? That’s another push that
44:36is complex, and then the sales phase.
44:40So, of course, in the end it's like you
44:42finish one phase and then you have to
44:44start rowing for the next one, and of
44:46course, explained like this, I think
44:48it's hard to understand if you aren't
44:50living it from the inside, right? And
44:54in the end, it’s your money, I mean,
44:56what you’re risking in a launch is
44:59your own money. So, of course, you're
45:03there rowing harder than anyone because
45:05this has to move forward.
45:07And it's a very short period of time.
45:09Yes, yes, yes. All concentrated in a
45:11month, a month and a half.
45:13That’s what’s important, because in
45:15the end, people say, "Well, you can
45:17spend a year or two," no, folks, we're
45:19talking about 30 days, maximum effort
45:21and an intense pace.
45:23Around there, around there. Yes, yes. A
45:24month, a month and a half.
45:26There are entrepreneurs, Judith, who
45:28perceive things with more intensity.
45:31Has this been your case?
45:33Yes, I am a highly sensitive person,
45:36and yes, yes, totally, totally.
45:39And how has it hindered or benefited
45:43you? Because many times it can be an
45:45advantage as such. Well, look, after
45:50doing some pretty intense work on this
45:51topic personally, uh, I mean, it's
45:57something I've always been on a sort of
45:59spiritual search for, right? Saying,
46:01why do I perceive things? Why do I feel
46:05so much? let's say, and that has led me
46:11to understand myself much better and
46:13understand other things that go hand in
46:15hand with being sensitive, right? And
46:18often it's also related to how your
46:20brain works, et cetera. And it's true
46:23that if you had asked me this question
46:26maybe a year ago, uh, I would have told
46:29you it's like a curse. Well, I've been
46:32working on the highly sensitive part
46:34perhaps longer. About the brain being
46:36at full capacity, uh, which is called a
46:38multifunctional brain. It's been less
46:42time, and it's basically about
46:44understanding how it works; I mean,
46:46both the sensitivity and how your brain
46:49works, how it works, really
46:51understanding how it functions to take
46:54advantage of it, because that's the
46:57difference between you seeing it or
46:59experiencing it as practically a curse,
47:02versus saying: "Wow, wait, uh, let's
47:05take advantage of this, let's make the
47:09most of it." Okay? So, it's true that
47:13sometimes, especially the sensitivity
47:15part, makes things affect you a lot and
47:18in a very deep way, right? Because you
47:22feel a lot, but also super deeply, huh?
47:25And that makes you sensitive, and it's
47:28not always well regarded, right? Uh, I
47:31think sensitivity is becoming more and
47:33more accepted. in general in society,
47:36uh, but sometimes it seems like I have
47:39to hold back and not show what I feel,
47:42especially depending on the environment
47:44you're in. And I think you have to
47:47learn to deal with it and live with it,
47:50understand it, and make the most of it,
47:54because if you really have high
47:56sensitivity, uh, it's a gift that you
47:59have to learn to manage, and it's
48:02definitely a gift that can bring you
48:05many things.
48:07In other words, it has helped you
48:08understand it and put it into words.
48:10Yes, yes, yes, yes. In fact, of course,
48:15I started my path of spiritual
48:17searching as a result of this, as a
48:19result of that sensitivity of feeling
48:21so much, that sometimes you think: well
48:24, maybe it's me who's, right?,that I'm
48:26losing it, why do I walk into a place
48:28and not feel comfortable, uh, what's
48:31going on? Hm. And from there, uh, it
48:35has been quite a process of, of
48:38searching, exactly. But well, when you
48:41understand it, and today I think there
48:44is more and more information, thank God
48:47, on the subject, it is very useful and
48:50it can help you a lot.
48:52And what projects are you working on
48:53today? Right now I'm starting a
48:57personal project called Hata Project,
49:00and I'm super happy because it's that
49:03project that comes from within, that
49:05I've been wanting to start for a long
49:08time, and well, in the end, because of
49:11how life has gone, we were busy with
49:14other things; and together with my
49:16partner, Allaya, it’s now the time to
49:19wrap up marketing projects, for various
49:22reasons, because life sometimes speaks
49:26to you, right? And to focus on our own
49:31project, which is great because with
49:34everything we've learned these past
49:37years, we are taking that foundation to
49:40apply it to our project.
49:43And besides, you are now in front of
49:45the camera, you are no longer behind
49:47the projects, but in front. How are you
49:49handling that change? Well, look, it's
49:52quite an adventure. It is true that in
49:56a previous project I had participated
49:58in, more on the marketing side, I had
50:00also been creating content or, well, I
50:02started creating content as a personal
50:04brand. So I had already broken that
50:08initial barrier because, at the
50:09beginning, the truth is that I was very
50:11afraid of putting myself out there. Um,
50:17and now, above all, it's like this new
50:19adventure, right? Well, precisely the
50:21whole product side, since we have
50:23worked a lot on the marketing side, but
50:26not the product side, and that is the
50:28new challenge we have to learn now.
50:31It's a new challenge regarding retreats
50:33that we also love.
50:34Retreats. Yes, yes, retreats and trips;
50:38I mean, not just local retreats, we
50:40also want to plan retreats in Egypt and
50:43probably Glastonbury. And hopefully, we
50:47can extend some to Asia as well.
50:50And how far do you want to go with this
50:51project?
50:52Phew! Um, the truth is that I don't see
50:56a limit.
50:57That is very good. That is very good.
51:00Yes, I think that in the end, we are
51:02now in a learning phase, especially
51:04because this is what many people don't
51:07see, that no matter how much experience
51:09you may have in a sector, you initially
51:12have to validate. I mean, I'm starting
51:16a new business now, and what I have to
51:18do is validate, validate my message,
51:20validate my offer. Hey, is what I'm
51:22trying to sell what people actually
51:24want? Where is the fit? We're going to
51:27make a beta group, uh, to get that
51:29first feedback, adjust, learn, uh,
51:31validate the sales funnels, validate
51:33the advertising. I mean, everything
51:36initially has to be validated, no
51:38matter how much experience you have. Um
51:41, it's just that nobody has a formula,
51:43right? I wish we had a magic wand, but
51:45it doesn't exist. So, we're in that
51:48phase now which is also very nice,
51:50which is validating, uh, validating the
51:53business and validating everything, and
51:55learning and adjusting, which in the
51:57end, uh, that's it, there are no other
52:00secrets.
52:01There's no secret, really.
52:02Judit, rapid-fire questions round.
52:04Let's see, go ahead, tell me.
52:06Answer the first thing that comes to
52:07your mind, briefly,
52:09okay? What sells more? Fear or desire?
52:13I'm betting on desire.
52:15Funnel or perfect product?
52:18Both, but funnel.
52:20What is the worst advice that keeps
52:22being given about selling on the
52:24internet?
52:25Probably that bit about depending on
52:27organic reach, maybe.
52:29What is the skill that has made you the
52:30most money?
52:31For me, my management ability.
52:33Bill more or sleep peacefully? It would
52:36sound very nice if I said sleep
52:38peacefully, but I'm into billing more.
52:40I like that.
52:41I mean, yes, exactly. And that makes me
52:43sleep peacefully.
52:45Very good answer. Very good answer. I
52:47like it a lot. Delegating too early or
52:50delegating too late? If you have a
52:54track record, delegate too early and
52:56focus on strategic tasks that allow you
52:57to make more money.
53:00I mean, if you have the cash and can do
53:02it.
53:03Any entrepreneurship advice you hate?
53:06Maybe the topic related to how easy it
53:12should be to start an online business,
53:14when nowadays it's a super professional
53:16market and it's not easy at all, not
53:18easy at all.
53:20Does money change you or amplify who
53:22you are?
53:23I think it amplifies.
53:24What would you change today about the
53:26info-products world if you could change
53:28one thing?
53:29Oh, the advertising costs. Everyone in
53:32info-products would want to change
53:34those.
53:35Finish the sentence, a business stops
53:37growing when
53:39when you stagnate.
53:40Well, it has been an absolute pleasure,
53:43Judit, to have you here today on Sin
53:45Red. Which, by the way, I want to ask
53:46you one last question. For you, living
53:48without a net, what is it? Well look,
53:52it brings entrepreneurship to mind,
53:54because I think entrepreneurship, well,
53:56you have so much uncertainty, you have
53:58to learn to navigate uncertainty and
54:00it's something for which there is no
54:02net, I mean, you have to learn it.
54:04Exactly.
54:05Completely agree. Well, in the end, the
54:07name Sin Red comes a bit from
54:09entrepreneurship precisely because sin
54:11red means
54:12in this podcast without a net to hold
54:14us back, without a net to hold us up,
54:15and without a net for anyone to tell us
54:17what we have to think, do, or say. So
54:19thank you very much for being a part of
54:21this new episode.
54:22My pleasure. Thank you so much.

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