【ネタバレあり】切通理作『ゴジラ-0.0』を語る — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:03Yes. Uh, hello.
2. 0:05Hello.
3. 0:07>> Uh, today is November 3rd, and, uh, what
4. 0:10day is it?
5. 0:13Well, it's the opening day of Godzilla
6. 0:15Minus One.
7. 0:18>> Uh, in honor of that opening day,
8. 0:21>> Yes.
9. 0:23>> Uh, we're going to share our thoughts on
10. 0:25Godzilla Minus One,
11. 0:27>> Uh, that's what this video is about.
12. 0:29Looking forward to it.
13. 0:30>> Likewise.
14. 0:31>> Just a heads up, it will contain
15. 0:33spoilers.
16. 0:35>> That's right.
17. 0:36>> Um, it's quite long, uh, was it about
18. 0:39105 minutes?
19. 0:40>> Ah, yes, that's right.
20. 0:42>> Um,
21. 0:43>> It's pretty long, so
22. 0:45>> Yes.
23. 0:45>> Um, I've only seen it once, so
24. 0:48>> Yeah.
25. 0:49>> Um, I haven't fully grasped all the
26. 0:51settings or the plot,
27. 0:52>> Yeah.
28. 0:55Uh, there are parts like that, but,
29. 0:59>> Uh, as for what I do remember,
30. 1:04>> Uh, I intend to talk about it properly,
31. 1:06so for some people, you might not have
32. 1:08wanted to know that, so if it starts
33. 1:09getting to those parts, just pause it if
34. 1:11you haven't seen it yet.
35. 1:16Then, uh, please watch the whole thing
36. 1:18and come back to watch the rest later.
37. 1:20>> Yes. Well, I hope to make it a thrilling
38. 1:23video. Alright, let's begin.
39. 1:26>> Yes, let's do this.
40. 1:27>> Well, um, the previous film, Godzilla
41. 1:30Minus One, was in 2023,
42. 1:31>> Yes.
43. 1:32>> released, and this is the second one.
44. 1:34>> Yes. Yes.
45. 1:37And, well, it's been about 3 years since
46. 1:39the previous one was released, but in
47. 1:41the story, it's 2 years later.
48. 1:45In 1949,
49. 1:49>> to, um, well, I think it's fine to say
50. 1:52this,
51. 1:53>> since everyone knows King Ghidorah
52. 1:55appears anyway.
53. 1:56Um, well, I'm a little hesitant to say
54. 1:58it, but I guess it's fine.
55. 2:07By the time this video goes up, I think
56. 2:09everyone will know this much, so, well,
57. 2:11King Ghidorah doesn't appear with three
58. 2:13heads from the start, but at first, it
59. 2:15attacks Matsumoto City as a, well,
60. 2:17dragon-like one-headed flying monster,
61. 2:19and there's that, and its neck is long
62. 2:21and a bit downward-facing, so,
63. 2:29>> The people living in those low-rise
64. 2:31buildings at the time,
65. 2:35>> uh, the fear of the people of Matsumoto
66. 2:38running in panic is well directed,
67. 2:42>> uh, it really is.
68. 2:46I was a little dissatisfied that King
69. 2:48Ghidorah's awakening felt almost like
70. 2:50just a setting.
71. 2:53Yeah.
72. 2:54>> Well, Director Takashi Yamazaki, the
73. 2:56Matsumoto native Director Yamazaki, said
74. 2:59he wanted revenge, uh, that he wanted to
75. 3:01get revenge for the King Ghidorah of his
76. 3:04memories,
77. 3:06>> I read that he said that,
78. 3:08>> and it really turned out to be that kind
79. 3:11of scene, and it felt a bit like Gyaos
80. 3:13from the Heisei Gamera, yes. Oh, that's
81. 3:15right.
82. 3:16>> That feeling was also a bit,
83. 3:18>> Yeah.
84. 3:18>> there, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
85. 3:21Running away like this, and being chased
86. 3:24from behind.
87. 3:25>> Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. And
88. 3:28Gyaos also had that trait of eating
89. 3:30humans.
90. 3:30>> Ah, yes. The,
91. 3:32>> shall we call it an attribute?
92. 3:35>> Yes. That attribute was clearly depicted
93. 3:38, wasn't it? Yeah.
94. 3:41>> This King Ghidorah also appears with
95. 3:43that kind of vibe, doesn't he?
96. 3:47>> And as for King Ghidorah's
97. 3:49>> Yes.
98. 3:51settings,
99. 3:52>> Yes.
100. 3:53>> in his debut work in 1964.
101. 3:57>> Well, this was probably before Director
102. 4:00Yamazaki was born, and it was also
103. 4:02before I was born, but King Ghidorah
104. 4:05debuted in the 1964 film Ghidorah, the
105. 4:07Three-Headed Monster,
106. 4:10>> and frankly speaking, the setting itself
107. 4:12is the same as that.
108. 4:13>> That's right. He came from space.
109. 4:17>> He comes out of something like a
110. 4:19meteorite from space, and he's a monster
111. 4:21that takes in and absorbs the things
112. 4:23around him, right?
113. 4:27>> And whenever they've tinkered with King
114. 4:29Ghidorah in the past,
115. 4:32>> they've changed his origins from space,
116. 4:35>> and done all sorts of things, haven't
117. 4:37they?
118. 4:38Yes.
119. 4:39>> So this time, with Godzilla Minus
120. 4:44One, right after the war,
121. 4:50>> when you go from Godzilla appearing to
122. 4:52suddenly leaping into King Ghidorah,
123. 5:00>> wouldn't they change King Ghidorah's
124. 5:01settings to better fit the Minus One
125. 5:03timeline?
126. 5:05Ah,
127. 5:08>> For example, like in Omori's Godzilla
128. 5:10vs. King Ghidorah, maybe King Ghidorah
129. 5:13could be a terrestrial creature that
130. 5:15appeared after being exposed to
131. 5:17radiation, that's one possibility I can
132. 5:19think of.
133. 5:23>> The setup itself
134. 5:25>> Yeah.
135. 5:26>> is the same as the original King
136. 5:28Ghidorah.
137. 5:28>> Right. Space monster.
138. 5:30>> Yeah. That it
139. 5:31>> Yes.
140. 5:32feels completely natural
141. 5:34>> really surprised me.
142. 5:36You see, the monsters in this movie
143. 5:39>> don't have a typical setup.
144. 5:41>> Ah,
145. 5:42>> the monsters themselves
146. 5:43>> Yes.
147. 5:44>> are terrifying.
148. 5:47They aren't just scary because they're
149. 5:49big and strong, blowing things away or
150. 5:51destroying them; their very cells—
151. 5:54>> Yes. well, it's a kind of—I can't recall
152. 5:57the exact term. It's like monster cells
153. 6:00,
154. 6:00>> possessing these incredibly resilient
155. 6:02cells,
156. 6:04>> that just absorb everything.
157. 6:06>> Yeah.
158. 6:09And so, if you attack them, they get
159. 6:11stronger by that amount, something that
160. 6:13proliferates in a terrifying way.
161. 6:19>> And because they're portrayed in a way
162. 6:21where Godzilla and King Ghidorah are no
163. 6:22different in that regard,
164. 6:26>> instead of where the monsters came from
165. 6:28or how they appeared,
166. 6:30>> the monster
167. 6:33>> itself is what's truly terrifying.
168. 6:36>> And honestly, what I thought was amazing
169. 6:39was—
170. 6:39>> Yes.
171. 6:40>> King Ghidorah breathes gravity beams,
172. 6:42right? Yes.
173. 6:45>> And in the 1964 film Ghidorah, the
174. 6:47Three-Headed Monster, there was that
175. 6:49depiction of
176. 6:50>> things being lifted up, right?
177. 6:52>> That's right.
178. 6:52>> Yeah, yeah, exactly. When it fired its
179. 6:55beams,
180. 6:56>> but then, in the subsequent films like
181. 6:58Invasion of Astro-Monster
182. 7:00>> Yes. Yes.
183. 7:02or Destroy All Monsters and Godzilla vs.
184. 7:05Gigan, that characteristic isn't really
185. 7:07depicted anymore.
186. 7:08>> Ah, that's true, isn't it?
187. 7:10>> Yeah. But, you know,
188. 7:12>> Yes.
189. 7:12>> actually,
190. 7:14>> in the show aired between Godzilla vs.
191. 7:16Megalon and the other films,
192. 7:19>> Zone Fighter,
193. 7:21>> when King Ghidorah appeared in Zone
194. 7:22Fighter,
195. 7:25>> that King Ghidorah used its gravity
196. 7:26beams to make cars float up into the air
197. 7:28.
198. 7:29>> Yeah. Ah.
199. 7:31So, yeah, King Ghidorah is really
200. 7:34interesting.
201. 7:38>> Well, since it's a TV tokusatsu
202. 7:40production, you can't really expect the
203. 7:42technology to make those three necks
204. 7:44move around freely, so in that sense,
205. 7:46it's a bit disappointing visually.
206. 7:50>> But I thought it was great that they
207. 7:51brought back the gravity beams for his
208. 7:53ability.
209. 7:54>> I actually quite liked King Ghidorah in
210. 7:56that*Zone Fighter*episode, yeah.
211. 7:58>> I thought he was good.
212. 7:59>> Yeah. But, well, the two-part*Zone*
213. 8:01episode didn't really end with Zone
214. 8:03Fighter defeating King Ghidorah or
215. 8:05anything,
216. 8:08>> and he just kind of fizzled out, so I
217. 8:10kept thinking Zone should have just
218. 8:11finished him off, which left a bit of a
219. 8:13disappointing impression on the
220. 8:14two-parter.
221. 8:18That was the impression I had, but well
222. 8:20, that’s neither here nor there.
223. 8:23>> But in this film, King Ghidorah
224. 8:25manipulates gravity,
225. 8:28>> Yes. Yes. Yes.
226. 8:30And so, you see houses floating in the
227. 8:32air, right?
228. 8:35Houses floating in the air,
229. 8:37>> and there’s that shot where they are
230. 8:39flying at the same altitude as the
231. 8:40fighter jets, you know?
232. 8:42>> That part,
233. 8:45>> for me, it really had the biggest impact
234. 8:48of any special effects scene in this
235. 8:50movie.
236. 8:52And why was it so impactful?
237. 8:54>> Because of the surreal terror.
238. 8:55>> Ah.
239. 8:56>> I mean, something like that could never
240. 8:57happen.
241. 8:58>> Yeah. In reality.
242. 9:02>> Yes, for instance, people often say that
243. 9:04Godzilla’s terror is layered with the
244. 9:06fear of wartime air raids, and that’s
245. 9:08because something huge like Godzilla
246. 9:10attacking from above, people running in
247. 9:12a panic, being unable to escape, and
248. 9:13buildings collapsing—that’s something
249. 9:15that could have actually happened,
250. 9:22>> a recreation of that fear or trauma, but
251. 9:24what King Ghidorah is doing here, well,
252. 9:26that’s just something that could never,
253. 9:28ever happen in reality.
254. 9:30And it's not something we've ever seen
255. 9:32before, right? Yet, it’s still scary.
256. 9:34Yeah.
257. 9:37>> And on top of that, you have ordinary
258. 9:39people who were just on their
259. 9:40second-floor balconies drying laundry
260. 9:42until yesterday, now screaming in sheer
261. 9:44terror.
262. 9:51>> So, people are mercilessly trampled and
263. 9:53die, which is something that could never
264. 9:55happen in reality, but you can actually
265. 9:57immerse yourself in it and feel genuine
266. 9:59fear, or rather, look at it from that
267. 10:01perspective.
268. 10:06>> That’s why that scene is amazing; it
269. 10:08really reminded me of the power of
270. 10:10special effects.
271. 10:12>> And what’s more, Shikishima has no
272. 10:13choice but to just pass by.
273. 10:15>> He has no choice but to pass by, right?
274. 10:17>> He can’t save them, after all.
275. 10:18>> There’s just no way to help them.
276. 10:20>> Ah.
277. 10:20>> That feeling of despair, Shikishima’s
278. 10:21sense of despair, is incredible.
279. 10:23>> Yes, exactly. And that’s the sense of
280. 10:25despair created by the monster itself.
281. 10:27Oh.
282. 10:28>> And up until now, this was...
283. 10:30>> Yes.
284. 10:31>> I mean, even if I say "up until now,"
285. 10:33fully CG Godzilla movies aren't rare
286. 10:36these days, but still.
287. 10:40>> We’ve always loved Godzilla movies with
288. 10:42miniature special effects, feeling a
289. 10:44certain fetishism for them, and enjoyed
290. 10:46the art of...
291. 10:49...
292. 10:49>> the joy of make-believe, right?
293. 10:50Miniatures.
294. 10:51>> Yeah.
295. 10:54Take GMK, for example—Godzilla, Mothra
296. 10:56and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters
297. 10:58All-Out Attack—when a fighter jet
298. 11:00explodes, the heroine says something
299. 11:03like, "The person in that plane just
300. 11:05died," right?
301. 11:09It was a world that made you imagine
302. 11:10those things.
303. 11:13>> But now, it shows those imagined things
304. 11:15directly as if they are happening right
305. 11:16here and now.
306. 11:18And yet, it’s something that could never
307. 11:20happen.
308. 11:26Yeah.
309. 11:27>> I think that’s really, like, a new...
310. 11:31>> Yeah.
311. 11:33...
312. 11:34>> I really felt it brought the monster
313. 11:35movie genre to a whole new frontier.
314. 11:40And now, with Godzilla Minus One,
315. 11:42there's…
316. 11:44>> Yes.
317. 11:46...a situation surrounding visuals that
318. 11:48couldn't have happened before.
319. 11:50>> It’s definitely generative AI.
320. 11:54>> With generative AI, you can create
321. 11:56scenes like a monster appearing and
322. 11:57destroying a city...
323. 12:02...
324. 12:02>> in such detail.
325. 12:03>> Yes, easily. It’s possible.
326. 12:06And if you think about it, for Godzilla
327. 12:08Minus One...
328. 12:11...
329. 12:11>> which even won the US Academy Award, not
330. 12:13the Japan Academy Film Prize, but the US
331. 12:15Academy Award...
332. 12:16>> Yes. ...
333. 12:16>> the VFX work by Shirogumi.
334. 12:21>> If you ask what the biggest threat to
335. 12:23those special effects techniques is now
336. 12:24, I think it’s generative AI.
337. 12:27>> And...
338. 12:29>> At the same time, generative AI is just
339. 12:31an accumulation of memories.
340. 12:32>> Yeah. Ah, up until now,
341. 12:37>> right, it’s all built on the technical
342. 12:39achievements we’ve created and the
343. 12:41references people have seen, so it’s
344. 12:43basically a recreation of something that
345. 12:44feels somewhat familiar.
346. 12:49>> And while there’s a part of me that
347. 12:51feels happy seeing that, on the other
348. 12:53hand,
349. 12:53>> well,
350. 12:54>> you know, there’s a limit where you
351. 12:56can’t really see anything beyond that,
352. 12:57right? Yes.
353. 13:03>> But this time, that scene of terror
354. 13:05where the houses are floating up and the
355. 13:07fighter jet is flying through them—that
356. 13:08depiction isn’t just a compilation of
357. 13:10what we’ve seen in the past.
358. 13:17>> Yeah.
359. 13:18>> I saw something new.
360. 13:19And on top of that, the terror of a
361. 13:21kaiju—whether it’s the terror of
362. 13:24Godzilla or King Ghidorah—the sheer
363. 13:26brutality of what a kaiju is...
364. 13:30>> it shows that when they appear, we, as
365. 13:32humanity, or even as individuals, are
366. 13:34completely powerless.
367. 13:37>> It expresses that.
368. 13:40>> That’s what I find so amazing.
369. 13:43I was truly overwhelmed and shocked by
370. 13:45it this time.
371. 13:47It’s that idea that when a kaiju appears
372. 13:49, there’s just nothing you can do.
373. 13:51>> Yeah. Yeah.
374. 13:52>> And what’s more, when this kaiju
375. 13:56>> appears and you have no options, but you
376. 13:58feel like you have to do something, you
377. 14:00have to take action,
378. 14:04>> when I think about what actually emerges
379. 14:06in that moment...
380. 14:09>> Yeah.
381. 14:11You know, when "Oppenheimer" was
382. 14:13released,
383. 14:15>> director Takashi Yamazaki
384. 14:18>> said something about how this is a movie
385. 14:20that needs a response from Japan.
386. 14:22Yes. Yes.
387. 14:23>> And when I watched "Oppenheimer," too,
388. 14:26>> I saw how the Americans
389. 14:32>> made the atomic bomb, and there was that
390. 14:34scene showing their obsession, or rather
391. 14:36, the trauma of the damage it caused.
392. 14:41>> Yes.
393. 14:43But I just couldn't help but wonder if
394. 14:45that really captured
395. 14:51>> the terror, the suffering, and the
396. 14:53reality of the people who were bombed in
397. 14:55Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
398. 15:00So, I agree that we need to provide a
399. 15:02response from Japan to that, and that's
400. 15:05exactly what I thought.
401. 15:07>> But honestly, looking back now—sorry,
402. 15:09Director Yamazaki.
403. 15:13It felt like, "Wow, he's really talking
404. 15:15big."
405. 15:17>> Oh, in that interview?
406. 15:19>> Yeah, exactly.
407. 15:22>> No, I didn't conduct the interview.
408. 15:25I just read the interview. And then,
409. 15:27well...
410. 15:28>> I thought, "He's saying things he can't
411. 15:30possibly pull off."
412. 15:32Like, "How on earth are you going to do
413. 15:33that?" Yeah.
414. 15:36>> I mean, making some small, minor film as
415. 15:38a sort of rebuttal wouldn't really be
416. 15:40countering*Oppenheimer*, would it?
417. 15:43>> Right, as a mere personal stance.
418. 15:45>> Yeah. That’s what I thought.
419. 15:48I was wondering, "What exactly do you
420. 15:50mean by that?"
421. 15:52>> Then I realized, "Oh, he's going to do
422. 15:54it with the second Godzilla movie."
423. 15:56>> I was quite surprised.
424. 15:57>> And as a sequel to the one that won an
425. 15:59Academy Award in America, at that.
426. 16:01>> Exactly, exactly.
427. 16:04I mean, even with the original Godzilla
428. 16:06, they mentioned nuclear testing, but
429. 16:08who conducted it?
430. 16:12>> It was only ever implied.
431. 16:13>> That's true. It was never explicitly
432. 16:15explained.
433. 16:15>> Yeah, exactly.
434. 16:17>> Yes.
435. 16:19>> And when*Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah*
436. 16:21made that part explicit,
437. 16:26>> well, there was a backlash from America
438. 16:29, right?
439. 16:29>> Ah, yes. And because of that, Godzilla
440. 16:32couldn't be released
441. 16:34>> in the U.S. for a while; that's what
442. 16:36happened in the end, right?
443. 16:40>> Back then, Director Kazuki Omori named
444. 16:43an American soldier "Spielberg."
445. 16:47>> And...
446. 16:47>> Yes. "
447. 16:48>> Surely they'll understand, the Americans
448. 16:50," he thought.
449. 16:51>> Yes. "
450. 16:51>> The love of cinema is a universal
451. 16:53language for world peace."
452. 16:56"That’s what I’m trying to express
453. 16:57through Godzilla now.""They’ll get it,
454. 16:59right?"
455. 17:00He was saying things like that.
456. 17:04>> But we don't even know if Spielberg saw
457. 17:06it, and in the end, it didn't really
458. 17:08resonate with Americans, did it?
459. 17:13But this time, their own special effects
460. 17:15technology was recognized with an
461. 17:16Academy Award, and he said Spielberg
462. 17:18even reached out to him.
463. 17:21Didn't he say that? Director Yamazaki?
464. 17:23So, having reached that point, what do
465. 17:26you do next?
466. 17:27What kind of thing do you do?
467. 17:29Americans are all paying attention—well
468. 17:32, not all Americans.
469. 17:35But American filmmakers, and especially
470. 17:37those interested in spectacle, are all
471. 17:39paying attention—it would be strange if
472. 17:41they weren't—so to throw this at them at
473. 17:43a time like that...
474. 17:46>> Ah.
475. 17:47>> That’s amazing. And, furthermore, to
476. 17:49take an extreme example,
477. 17:51>> Yes.
478. 17:51>> Director Yamazaki didn't have to do
479. 17:53Godzilla, did he?
480. 17:54>> Ah, that’s right. He’s a safe bet, in a
481. 17:56way.
482. 17:56>> Yeah. I mean, it’s basically decided
483. 17:58that he’ll be working in Hollywood,
484. 18:00right? So he could have just said, "
485. 18:02Japan, thank you," and been done with it
486. 18:04.
487. 18:04>> It wouldn't be strange if he directed
488. 18:05Star Wars.
489. 18:06>> Right.
490. 18:06>> Yes.
491. 18:07>> And, well, I do want him to direct Star
492. 18:09Wars, but...
493. 18:10>> Even so, he took on this project.
494. 18:13>> And, well, taking that on—I don't know
495. 18:15if this conversation actually happened,
496. 18:17though. But when he said, "If I'm taking
497. 18:19this on, I want to be allowed to do this
498. 18:21,"
499. 18:21>> He could only do it right now, right?
500. 18:24Ah, when I say "he could only do it
501. 18:26right now," I don't mean whether Toho
502. 18:28would approve it or not, but including
503. 18:30how it would be evaluated, it's
504. 18:31something
505. 18:33>> he could only do now.
506. 18:35I think it’s amazing that he actually
507. 18:38>> did it.
508. 18:38>> Yeah, his, his amazing artistic vision
509. 18:41...
510. 18:41>> Yeah.
511. 18:42And, well, Minoru Tanaka,
512. 18:45>> Dr. Murakami,
513. 18:46>> in this one, yes.
514. 18:48>> In the end, his own family was bombed,
515. 18:50and he even shows their charred corpses
516. 18:51. Yes. Exactly.
517. 18:53>> With that obsession, he even thinks
518. 18:55about using Godzilla to destroy America
519. 18:57.
520. 18:59He even thinks about wanting to inflict
521. 19:01that radiation damage directly on
522. 19:02Americans, right?
523. 19:05>> And although they don't depict him
524. 19:07actually using it for that evil purpose
525. 19:09,
526. 19:11>> Yes.
527. 19:12>> depicting it as an obsession is clearly
528. 19:14a response to Oppenheimer, isn't it? Ah
529. 19:16.
530. 19:17>> Yeah.
531. 19:20So, it's because it's an obsession—it's
532. 19:22not like it's just meant to force an
533. 19:24action—and I think it's because he
534. 19:26presented it as an obsession that it
535. 19:27feels like such a quick response.
536. 19:32>> Yeah.
537. 19:34That’s why I think it’s amazing.
538. 19:36>> I think.
539. 19:38>> However, this film will probably...
540. 19:41>> I think there are people who will be
541. 19:42dissatisfied or critical of it. And the
542. 19:44reason for that is...
543. 19:45>> Yes. Yes. Everything, from the emotions
544. 19:48to the depictions, is set to "on."
545. 19:51>> Oh.
546. 19:52>> Instead of leaving things "off" to imply
547. 19:54, show, or make the audience imagine,
548. 19:56he’s put everything out there.
549. 19:58>> Yeah. Ah, emotions. Yes.
550. 20:00>> Yeah. Right.
551. 20:06And so, for instance, not directly
552. 20:08showing corpses but making people feel
553. 20:10the misery of what’s happening—that kind
554. 20:12of indirect depiction...
555. 20:20...
556. 20:20>> is something that has been done before,
557. 20:22right?
558. 20:25Godzilla movies have done that, but
559. 20:27turning all of that "on" might make
560. 20:28those who grew up watching Godzilla as a
561. 20:30program picture wonder about this kind
562. 20:32of balance and this kind of production.
563. 20:37>> No, I also...
564. 20:38>> I have parts where I feel that way, too
565. 20:40.
566. 20:40>> A certain percentage, anyway. But... "
567. 20:42>> This is something that can only be done
568. 20:44now, right?"
569. 20:44>> Ah.
570. 20:48>> Takashi Yamazaki is amazing for doing
571. 20:50what can only be done now; I felt that
572. 20:52there are things someone in a certain
573. 20:53position should do.
574. 20:58>> He’s very sincere, Takashi Yamazaki.
575. 21:00>> No, I really think so. He’s not just all
576. 21:03talk. Well, obviously.
577. 21:07The way the film is made—it's natural,
578. 21:08but I initially thought maybe he was
579. 21:10promising more than he could deliver,
580. 21:12but honestly, I just feel like saying, "
581. 21:14I’m sorry for doubting you."
582. 21:19And since everything is turned "on,"
583. 21:21while watching the latter half of the
584. 21:22film, it reminded me of something.
585. 21:27>> In the film magazine*Eiga Geijutsu*,
586. 21:29there was a film discussion featuring
587. 21:31Susumu Nishibe, and they were talking
588. 21:33about what he thought of the original*
589. 21:35Godzilla*watching it now.
590. 21:38>> There was that moment with Nishibe-san.
591. 21:41At that time...
592. 21:42>> So, Mr. Nishibe,
593. 21:44>> Yes.
594. 21:45You see, Dr. Serizawa...
595. 21:51>> He creates the Oxygen Destroyer, a
596. 21:53potential ultimate weapon that can
597. 21:55defeat Godzilla, but once it's used, the
598. 21:57whole world will know he created such a
599. 21:59weapon.
600. 22:04Yes.
601. 22:08>> And at that point, he himself might be
602. 22:11pressured to use it, develop it further
603. 22:13, or create new weapons, and he...
604. 22:20>> He might succumb to that, including the
605. 22:23temptation, and that's when Serizawa
606. 22:25says something, yeah.
607. 22:27>> Yeah. "
608. 22:28>> Humans are weak creatures."
609. 22:30>> Nishibe focuses on this statement.
610. 22:34And the reason is, the question is:
611. 22:38>> Nuclear weapons, or ultimate weapons—no
612. 22:40matter how much we try to discard or
613. 22:42suppress them out of humanism,
614. 22:46>> Yeah.
615. 22:47>> You can never erase the fact that they
616. 22:49have already been developed.
617. 22:51>> Ah, that’s...
618. 22:52>> What it means.
619. 22:54So, even if someone else might use them
620. 22:56, if you're the first to preach peace,
621. 23:01>> And even if everyone agrees not to use
622. 23:03such nuclear weapons, if some cheater
623. 23:05decides to use them,
624. 23:08>> Yeah.
625. 23:09>> Ah,
626. 23:10>> Isn't that the end of it all?
627. 23:12>> Ah,
628. 23:13>> That's the point, isn't it?
629. 23:15So, in that sense, maybe nuclear
630. 23:17disarmament is impossible.
631. 23:20Mr. Nishibe is a, well, Mr. Nishibe is
632. 23:23...
633. 23:23>> He's a conservative thinker, after all.
634. 23:28>> So that’s what he says, and he asks what
635. 23:30peace activists would think about that,
636. 23:32saying that the original Godzilla
637. 23:33confronts us with that very question—
638. 23:38>> That was Mr. Nishibe’s...
639. 23:41>> Interpretation, you see. Ah.
640. 23:44And when I read that, I thought, "Yes,
641. 23:46that's exactly right, and this problem
642. 23:48still hasn't been solved."
643. 23:52That’s why the 1954 Godzilla isn't an
644. 23:54old movie; what was presented there
645. 23:56hasn't ended, and it’s something that
646. 23:58continues to be thrust upon us as a
647. 24:00challenge.
648. 24:02And so, regarding that, this time...
649. 24:04>> Ah, yes.
650. 24:12To put it simply, Noriko Shikishima
651. 24:14survives because she is invaded by
652. 24:16Godzilla's cells, and that ends up
653. 24:18making her part of the operation to
654. 24:20counter the monster.
655. 24:32Shikishima doesn't want Noriko to be
656. 24:34forced into such a role, so he tries to
657. 24:36help her escape.
658. 24:40Yes.
659. 24:43>> However, on the way, she sees a city
660. 24:44devastated by the monster's attack, and
661. 24:46the sight of that ruin makes her
662. 24:48reconsider.
663. 24:53It made me wonder if Director Yamazaki
664. 24:55intentionally included that, but I don't
665. 24:57know for sure—it reminds me of Ishiro
666. 24:59Honda, the director of the original
667. 25:01Godzilla.
668. 25:05>> You know,
669. 25:06>> when he was being repatriated,
670. 25:09>> he passed through Hiroshima by train,
671. 25:15>> and in interviews, he said that the pain
672. 25:16of seeing that scene stayed with him for
673. 25:18a long time.
674. 25:22>> That’s what I was reminded of.
675. 25:23>> Ah,
676. 25:25>> he initially tried to run away from that
677. 25:27reality.
678. 25:29But, seeing the destruction...
679. 25:33>> Mm-hmm.
680. 25:40This also mirrors the structure of the
681. 25:42original Godzilla, where Emiko—who was
682. 25:44sworn to secrecy by Dr. Serizawa about
683. 25:46the destructive power of the Oxygen
684. 25:48Destroyer—ends up revealing the secret
685. 25:50because she witnesses the devastation
686. 25:52caused by Godzilla and feels she cannot
687. 25:54just stand by and do nothing.
688. 26:04>> It overlaps with that, and furthermore,
689. 26:06in that mission, Noriko...
690. 26:10>> Yes.
691. 26:11...
692. 26:12>> uses the monster-countermeasure to fight
693. 26:13the monster.
694. 26:16>> Even after participating in that mission
695. 26:18to counter the monster,
696. 26:21>> her very existence makes such things
697. 26:23possible.
698. 26:24Because the world in this film has
699. 26:26already entered the age of monsters, you
700. 26:28see.
701. 26:31And, well, it’s connected to the idea
702. 26:33that it’s now the age of monsters; she’s
703. 26:35become a target.
704. 26:38Ah,
705. 26:39>> So there is no way for her to return to
706. 26:41being an ordinary person.
707. 26:44>> That’s why the action Shikishima takes
708. 26:46there is, in short, to run away with her
709. 26:48.
710. 26:50And Akiko, the daughter he'd temporarily
711. 26:52left at a facility—well, she's not his
712. 26:54biological daughter, but he decides to
713. 26:56take her along and run as far as they
714. 26:58can, the three of them.
715. 26:59>> He makes that choice, doesn't he?
716. 27:01>> Yeah. Yes. Well, yeah. Yes.
717. 27:04>> Right. And, you know, what I thought
718. 27:06about was,
719. 27:08>> in "Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster,
720. 27:10" the original script had a different
721. 27:12ending,
722. 27:14>> where Godzilla, Mothra, and Rodan,
723. 27:16having defeated King Ghidorah,
724. 27:19>> yeah,
725. 27:21>> ended up being hunted by the entire
726. 27:23world.
727. 27:24>> Oh,
728. 27:26>> that's, uh, the sequence they had.
729. 27:29>> Oh, that,
730. 27:30>> yeah, exactly. And really, if they
731. 27:32actually existed in reality, that's what
732. 27:34would happen, right?
733. 27:36>> Ah, well, yes.
734. 27:37>> You know,
735. 27:38>> monsters just don't exist.
736. 27:40>> So, so, when it comes down to what this
737. 27:42actually means, I think maybe
738. 27:45>> I was wondering what "Minus One" really
739. 27:48meant,
740. 27:49>> yeah.
741. 27:49>> Maybe it means we can never return to a
742. 27:51zero base anymore.
743. 27:53Ah.
744. 27:55>> And it's about how we fight and struggle
745. 27:57to keep living while we're unable to
746. 27:59return to that zero base.
747. 28:02>> Yes.
748. 28:04>> Like, essentially, them riding off on
749. 28:06the bike forever,
750. 28:11>> continuing to run—a kind of ending that
751. 28:13doesn't really have a resolution.
752. 28:15>> Ah, that's true. Yes. A luxurious, yes.
753. 28:18Right.
754. 28:18>> Yeah. Yeah.
755. 28:20So I thought there might be something
756. 28:21like that to it,
757. 28:23>> and for me, this was,
758. 28:26>> I'm amazed that they were able to make
759. 28:27this a public film.
760. 28:29>> Yeah.
761. 28:30>> That's the feeling I got.
762. 28:32>> I see. Minus, well, zero, well, not
763. 28:34returning to zero. For humanity, it's
764. 28:36like, well, we've gained the knowledge
765. 28:38of nuclear power.
766. 28:39>> Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly,
767. 28:40exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly.
768. 28:42>> No matter how much we say we won't build
769. 28:44them, the knowledge remains in the end.
770. 28:45>> Right. Yes, it remains, so it's
771. 28:47impossible to return to a zero base,
772. 28:49isn't it?
773. 28:49>> It's the forbidden fruit. Exactly.
774. 28:51>> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
775. 28:54>> And for Shikishima, well, on an
776. 28:56individual level, it means he can't go
777. 28:58back to their former peaceful life of
778. 29:00three, in that state.
779. 29:01>> On a personal level as well, it’s a life
780. 29:03that can never go back to zero. Yeah.
781. 29:05Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s what it comes
782. 29:07down to.
783. 29:10And, well, because they stick to that so
784. 29:12thoroughly, the drama between the kaiju
785. 29:14and the humans never drifts apart; it
786. 29:16continues throughout.
787. 29:22>> I find that incredibly convincing, and
788. 29:24also, simply put—
789. 29:29>> Yeah. Yes.
790. 29:31Well, I think it’s too much to say
791. 29:33everything, but a key character carried
792. 29:36over from the previous film is, well,
793. 29:38gone in the end.
794. 29:40>> Uh—
795. 29:40>> Yes.
796. 29:42>> They don’t show any mercy in that regard
797. 29:44either.
798. 29:45>> Uh, yeah.
799. 29:48>> Right in front of the people carrying
800. 29:50out the operations, the people actually
801. 29:52doing the work—
802. 29:54>> Yes.
803. 29:56—are depicted dying in such a brutal way
804. 29:58, quite often in this film.
805. 30:02In that sense, usually in kaiju movies,
806. 30:05the people in command are relatively
807. 30:07safe,
808. 30:12>> watching the kaiju rampage from what
809. 30:14feels like a front-row seat, and you
810. 30:16wonder how that place could possibly be
811. 30:18safe.
812. 30:25Back in the era of Honda’s Godzilla,
813. 30:27they really tried to hide that, but as
814. 30:29I’ve watched the Heisei Godzilla films,
815. 30:31I’ve started to feel that way more and
816. 30:33more.
817. 30:38I mean, I’m not saying I reject them
818. 30:40entirely.
819. 30:45They have plenty of interesting elements
820. 30:47, but while I felt that way on one hand
821. 30:49, how should I put it, the potential
822. 30:51sense of crisis people had when kaiju
823. 30:53films were first born—
824. 30:59>> That obsession, as we get more familiar
825. 31:01with the kaiju themselves, well, that
826. 31:03fades away, doesn’t it?
827. 31:06Even for us. Ah.
828. 31:07>> And then the kaiju start to become
829. 31:09something lovable, don’t they?
830. 31:12That in itself is a fine direction to
831. 31:14take, but on the other hand, there’s
832. 31:16this part of me that doesn't want to let
833. 31:18go of that original feeling.
834. 31:23>> So, I really felt they cherished that
835. 31:25aspect, that sense of a conclusion that
836. 31:27doesn't quite settle into reality, or
837. 31:29doesn't land where you'd expect.
838. 31:33Yeah.
839. 31:35I really felt that in this movie.
840. 31:38I mean, the tagline "end everything"
841. 31:41really has
842. 31:43>> a very deep meaning, I thought.
843. 31:46We want to end everything,
844. 31:47>> Yeah.
845. 31:49>> but is it even possible to end
846. 31:50everything?
847. 31:53>> But there is that desperate desire to
848. 31:54want to end it, you know?
849. 31:57That's exactly what Godzilla is, and
850. 31:59that’s what it represents.
851. 32:04That’s why Godzilla’s eternal nature
852. 32:06lies right there.
853. 32:11>> I see.
854. 32:11>> That’s also an interesting point, in a
855. 32:13way. Yeah.
856. 32:17>> Humans are always trying to use some
857. 32:19sort of forbidden power, whether it’s
858. 32:21things like the Oxygen Destroyer or
859. 32:22other giant monsters.
860. 32:28>> Right, that forbidden power—so, like,
861. 32:31having Godzilla fight the King,
862. 32:35>> well, it’s not like
863. 32:37>> we haven't seen that plenty of times
864. 32:38before.
865. 32:39>> Especially if you're a fan of kaiju
866. 32:41films.
867. 32:41>> Yes. And when Hidetaka Yoshioka’s
868. 32:44character, Mr. Noda, says
869. 32:49>> that mocking the gods
870. 32:51>> or doing things like that
871. 32:53>> isn't something humans should be doing,
872. 32:59>> many people might think, "Wait, haven't
873. 33:01we been doing that forever?
874. 33:06In Japan and America, even in anime?"
875. 33:11Well, it would be a lie to say that
876. 33:12didn't cross my mind, too.
877. 33:15However,
878. 33:16>> I realized the kaiju in this film are
879. 33:18different. They are, first and foremost
880. 33:20, terrifying entities. Yeah. Yeah.
881. 33:26So, pitting Godzilla against King
882. 33:28Ghidorah—even if it's to defeat him—
883. 33:37it’s just as terrifying as using nuclear
884. 33:39weapons to attack a country that already
885. 33:41possesses them.
886. 33:46I mean, that's what started to come into
887. 33:48view. Yeah.
888. 33:49>> Yeah. That kind of aspect is definitely
889. 33:51there.
890. 33:53Lastly, I want to mention that we
891. 33:54recorded a video for "Godzilla Minus One
892. 33:56," didn't we?
893. 33:58And back then, Minami Hamabe’s character
894. 34:01, Noriko,
895. 34:05>> well,
896. 34:08>> Yeah, exactly, I was shaking when I
897. 34:10thought that maybe the eye patch she
898. 34:12wears is Dr. Serizawa's, you know.
899. 34:17>> And in this new film, she finds herself
900. 34:19in a position where her very existence
901. 34:21is being hunted by the whole world.
902. 34:24>> In a sense, that's what Dr. Serizawa's
903. 34:26future could have been.
904. 34:33If he hadn't died—I mean, Dr. Serizawa
905. 34:35died, but she didn't, and Shikishima
906. 34:38didn't either.
907. 34:44>> So, it's a story about those people who
908. 34:47, in a way, chose to keep living.
909. 34:51>> I think that might be the case, don't
910. 34:53you?
911. 34:53>> Ah, I see. So Noriko, in that sense, is
912. 34:56someone who could have lived as Dr.
913. 34:58Serizawa did.
914. 35:00>> Someone who could have lived on as the
915. 35:01doctor.
916. 35:03>> That's right.
917. 35:04>> Yeah, that's the kind of thing I felt
918. 35:06this time around. Today...
919. 35:08>> With that said, well, I'm glad I had the
920. 35:10chance to talk about this.
921. 35:13Yes, thank you very much.
922. 35:15>> Thank you. Well then, I think we'll wrap
923. 35:17things up here for today.
924. 35:18>> Yes. Thank you so much.
925. 35:21>> Thank you very much.